jbl 4311speaker crossover upgrade
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2021
- jbl 4311 speaker crossover upgraded based on high quality hifi capacitors : Audyn, mundorf.
Audiophile capacitors.
link to purchase audyn caps :
www.banzaimusic.com/QS-6/
Depending on your budget you can buy other more expensive ones like mundorf, jantzen, clarity cap ..., but already Audyn qs series have a very good price-quality ratio
you can also visit www.hificollective.com for high quality hifi capacitors / resistors/ inductors / drivers.... - Jak na to + styl
Some may cringe at doing this to a classic speaker. Each component at the time was taking into accou t when designing this speaker. Each capacitor has its sound or sonic character. Heck even the internal wiring can have an effect. Just so folks know this "upgrade " may sound just different and not neccessarily better. And to what someone else has said, if those are film caps they should never go bad in such a simple crossover. I was tought electrolytics go bad and dry out but not film caps. I appreciate the video even though I may not agree. Thanks!
it's true that film capacitors live as long as electrolytics, but believe me, their sound loses transparency and life.
the only rule that must be respected is not to change them for others with inferior quality.
try to replace old caps by new caps of good quality like the mundorf supreme or even the oil caps and you will notice a very big improvement in sound.
incredible - this is exactly what i was looking for. thank you so much. great work.
thank you, you well come
In my case the two wirewound potentiometers are broken, how can I replace them, or use fixed resistors?
In addition, the foam ring has already crumbled.
Is there a wiring diagram so that the speakers can be correctly polarised?
Hi! Did you happen to do any measurements before and after? I'd love to the the effects of replacing old or low cost capacitors in a crossover (especially when they're the WHOLE crossover! 😊)
Did you replace the pots while in there? Reuse the same foilcal or get a new one? I've done a few sets myself, you have to be very careful taking those off because their so thin the damage easily, I use a heat gun and a thin metal angled scraper usually and seems to do really good.
Definitely do not swap the wirewound L-pads used in the level controls for cheapo potentiometers. Big mistake. I carefully disassembled mine by bending back about 3 tabs of metal. Cleaned off the green corrosion with contact cleaner. I went the extra mile and put them in a 40 watt ultrasonic bath for no more than 2 minutes (can damage nickel plating). Reassembled and they are as good as new. These are not potentiometers which wipe a carbon graphite lick of paint. The wipers on these contact a coil of copper wire. Big quality difference. IMHO the L-pads shown in this video are not original. At least mine looked far older and probably made in the USA.
When you mention old and tired caps, have the caps changed value? I rebuilt some crossovers for a pair of L36s and the mid and tweeters became bright with a bit of an edge that doesn't work for me. In hindsight I tested the removed caps all marked Electro Cap wrapped in paper with no leaks and they were spot on values. The original sound was more of a AK vibe. I used a Solen cap on the woofer and Dayton Precision on the tweeter and mid. Crossover is an exact rebuild of the original. Because of budget I was looking at using Mundorf Classic caps to cut back the edgy sound. Ideas? FYI my go to speakers are 4311s with a Marantz 4270.
Ok I'll answer you:
First things to know that old jbl film capacitors still working good with exact value but not like before.
- all dayton audio caps are for audio amateurs projects not for high quality speakers like old jbl studio monitors.
- old caps on old jbl studio monitors still sounds better than this dayton audio caps!!!
- if you want feeling a real change replace old mkp caps by high quality mkp capacitors like mundorf, jantzen z-cap, Audyn, clarity caps....
I’ve been doing crossover mods for 50 years. The end-game for me, at a reasonable cost, is Jantzen Superior Z. They are very smooth, but detailed. I think it’s their best “affordable” cap. Audyn and Mundorf are also good, but I still prefer Jantzen.
How did you keep the polarity of the drivers correct and know which wire went with what capacitor set and L-pad if you didn't mark any of the wires or driver terminals? (Marking wires and associated terminals is the very first thing I do before ever disconnecting or cutting anything in a speaker!)
Because the schematic diaphragm of jbl 4311 is very very simple :
- One cap from + terminal to midrange Lpad
- one cap from + terminal to tweeter Lpad
- boomer connected directly to terminal
Negative jbl wires are always marked by black line to keep polarity!!!
Why i should mark something very clear and easy to understand by anyone???!!!🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
@@homemade_audio I see, OK. Yeah, I couldn't really tell from the video, exactly how it was wired, but that kind of super basic, first order design seems like it would be quite easy to remember how it was hooked up, especially if you studied the wiring first before just immediately tearing it apart. (Which you probably did right before making this video, I would suppose.)
smartphone? take pics before disecting
@homemade_audio What cap values did you use to replace the 3uF caps in the crossover?
3uf replaced by two 1.5uf caps in parallel
Hi!! ... would the cap values you show also work for my 4312B monitors?
What would be the effect if one substituted an 8.2 uF for an 8.0, and a 3.3 uF for a 3.0?
hello, the crossover frequencies will change, jbl 4311 have only two caps on crossover : one of 8uf for midrange, one 3uf for HF and the midwoofer connected directly( plays bass and some midrange), based on 8uf the jbl midrange le5 play sound from 1.5khz , if you replace it with 8.2uf it will play sound from 1khz or down = it will plays somme frequencies that also played with midwoofer = disturbs the flat response.
but in general 8.2uf/3.3 instead 8uf/3uf = small difference felt.
i know that 8 and 3 are not a standard value, but if you're an audiophile it's better to make 8uf/3uf.
I read somewhere that these woofers should be installed with butyl sealant putty tape (not foam, eva, which breaks down into powder over time from ozone). I haven’t done this to mine yet but i think I will.
what is the capacitance of the two smaller capacitors you are running in parallel?
1.5uf for each one, the association of capacitors in parallel, the rule says Ctot = C1 + C2 1.5uf +1.5uf = 3uf.
8uf cap replaced, what's value of second cap? When U resealed attenuator foil, will foil lay flat or wavy?
the value of the second cap is 3.3uf, the foil lay is wavy but after pasting becomes flat, you can also remove the whole foil lay in a flat shape, it's less difficult when using knife.
Would I have to upgrade the crossover to use new speaker terminals? Also can you share the link in the description for the speaker terminals. I find the ones on the JBL to be frustratingly difficult to maneuver when adjusting my speakers.
5 months late to reply, but the answer is no. Buy some better binding posts and put them in. Remove and disconnect the Woofer, on the inside you connect a red wire to the red post and a black wire to the black post. Super easy to do.
Thanks! Any chance you can share where you got your speaker terminals?
Cool video thank you Are the wires and drivers marked + - ?
yes it's,the woofer terminals are marked by red color for (+ )and black for(-)
for midrange and tweeter they have a special connectors for (+) and (-), you can't connect them wrong.
in general all vintage jbl speaker's wire have follows the same rulles : the two wire of every driver have the same color but one have a black line for (-).
green for woofers
white for midranges
and yellow for tweeters.
@@homemade_audio
Many heritage JBL drivers have reverse polarity where black is positive.
thanks a lot from my 4311B ...
🥰🥰🥰 you welcome 🙏🙏🙏
Beautiful work. My speakers are 1978, sound great. Is it necessary to change the capacitors? How can you tell if they are bad? Thanks
Thanks, for capacitors if your 4311 still have the original capacitors it's recommended to replace them by a new ones. But the new ones must be a high quality film capacitors to get the best results. For example mundorf supreme are good for this job or sonicap, jantzen superior z-cap ...
Four caps in all. 2 for each one. Because the crossover of 4322 is very simple. One cap for tweeter, one cap for midrange and the midwoofer directly connected to binding post.
@@homemade_audio this is studio monitors.. why didnt you change the capacitors to make it a hifi speakers?
@@sergiobisonte because they are not mine,
@@homemade_audio but is it possible to change capacitors and make them hifi?
@@sergiobisonte without any change this speakers are a real hifi speakers. It sounds very good.
There's some people try to made a new kind of crossover for jbl l100 (home version of 4311) but really 4311 must still as it's.
Hi. Which software do you use to design the crossover?
I have just replaced the old caps with new ones (same value ).
If the entire crossover consists of only these two capacitors, it's a wonder this speaker works at all.
IKR - no electrical roll-off on the woofer and mid-range, plus only 6dB/octave high-pass on mid and tweeter.
are you actually UPGRADING the crossover, or simply replacing caps with same values of Brand new caps?
It's not an upgrade, just replacing the old caps with better quality ones. To upgrade the crossover one would need to start again, take measurements, re-design the crossover to take it to the level of todays designs. Dare I say if you did that it would be a no brainer and do the whole hog ! ( Cabinets made of cheap chip board, can't do anything with them except re build them ) the rest~ brace the cabs, replace the cheap damping material, replace the cheap wiring, replace the binding posts with modern ones. Would take these speakers to the next level, whole lot of fun. Would they sound better, absolutely. Would they sound different yes because there would be more of the music. Check out Kenrich Sound latest vid on the upgraded 4311.
This may ......or may not be an upgrade. Those 2 large cardboard capacitors may in fact be film caps, and if so, replacing them is totally unnecessary. This is because film caps never age, never leak, and never go bad.They sure do not look like any electrolytic cap I have ever seen. Does anyone know what TYPE of caps these are ?
No sir. After 50 years old these film caps age and sound bad. Be sure that after replacing theme by Audyn the speakers sounds good with very clear midrange and also the high frequency response well improved.
@@homemade_audio I will have to take your word on this.However it contradicts everything I have read on the subject for years..... decades actually. Personally, I would suspect oxidation of the wirewound element and sweeper arm of both pots, and clean them with deoxit....before I would suspect the caps of aging poorly. I will disassemble and measure the caps in my 4311s for capacitice and ESR. To answer my question : do you agree that these are PPE or mylar film caps ?
@@wzortrex i think ppe. More than i have read that the caps on vintage jbl monitor studio series was made by jantzen audio.
Measure can give you the exact value but sonically there's a difference between these old &tired caps and the new ones.
- Replace the caps by mundorf supreme or jantzen z-cap
- check the lpad
- check the connections between wire and drivers
- replace the binding post by new ones (audiophile grade).
- check the drivers of your speakers if they are standard or repaired before.
- wires I'm sure they still good
And trust me. The sound will well improved.
Smart!
Hi HomemadeAudio, got a question for you, I am setting up a sound system in my garage for my use when I work in there or just to chill out, and have a question. I have a DBX 234xs crossover that splits the outputs to Lows, Mids, and highs. from the High output of the crossover, i'm going to a crown AMP that feeds 2 JBLs 2426J HF drivers, the question is, should I install any type of filtering before connecting to the driver or is it ok just going from the AMP to the drivers since I have the crossover.
Hello. Verry important question!!!!
Don't connect your amp directly to any HF drivers !!!!
Why ???
Because any noise before the amp or before the active crossover will destroys immediately your hf drivers!!
The solution is to use a capacitor with a big value to protect your hf drivers from loud sound, in general from 20 to 30uf.
For exemple In jbl 4430 there's a 20uf coupled in series to jbl 2426h when the external crossover is selected.
Put 20uf if the hf cut is about 1khz or more,
And 30uf for 800hz cut .
Put the caps in serie between the amp and hf drivers to cut any loud signal.
For Lf drivers no problem to be connected directly to amplifier.
@@homemade_audio Thank you, i will look for the 20uf capacitor, I am learning about all this so i have to ask is it an electrolytic cap? form what i read on another post they mention electrolytic non polarized ? i got the crossover set at around 2khz, I tested it and sounds a bit harsh , hard on the ears. Thanks again.
@@alexgreen121 if your reusing the old coils you have to use the same value capacitors that you already have
Is this a first order cross over or a 2nd order.
Next if you could share a small schematic of the parts used it would make understanding what you did. Or if you just shared the cross over points.
the crossover used is 1 order type for both tweeter and midrange.
the diagram of the crossover is very very simple:
- One capacitor for a tweeter
- One capacitor for midrange
The woofer is connected directly without a filter.
I associated capacitors to have 8uf and 3uf because these values used by jbl are not standard.
You will find the schematic diagram on description.
You welcome 🥰
Inherited the speakers from my parents, they sound kind of muffled to my untrained audiophile ears…took the cover off and realized both the tweeter and midrange drivers had been changed to Hokutone drivers made in Japan, no wonder, i use to play those speakers to wake up the neighborhood….now i want to restore them, loved your video, made me realize what I need to do….what are the small parts you changed? Couldn’t see the part numbers…..the midrange drivers have the wires soldered on, while the tweeters are push on, should i pay attention to the wiring? The midrange has a black and a red wire…the tweeter a black and white wires…..plus anything else you suggest i do….thanks in advance
Hi. Thank you for your interest and your comment. before answering your questions I inform you that after changing the midrange and jbl tweeter you no longer have the jbl sound of the 4311!! even if the replacement drivers are of good quality.
- first try to find jbl le5 midranges and jbl le25 tweeters for your 4311.
- for capacitors are 3uf total for small, and 8uf total for large.
- the wiring of course must be respected. the wires with black line always at the negative terminals of the loudspeakers, normally jbl on these models we cannot be mistaken because they use plugs for positives different from those for negatives.
Thanks so much for the quick answer…already ordered the mid rangers LE5-2 ….about to order the tweeters……the brand Audyn you used, are those like the best you can get? Or are there any better ones out there you would use? ….where do you buy your parts?….thanks again
@@galipan6213 you welcome. I'm audiophile and i love sound,
I used audyn for there best quality for money, but if you want well caps for jbl, it's better to use mundorf supreme or jantzen z-cap(red) are a very high quality caps and they work great with vintage jbl studio monitors, but you have to associate two caps of 1.5uf in parallel to get 3uf for tweeter, because 3uf isn't a standard value. And 4.7uf + 3.3uf in parallel to get 8uf.
You can see a video in my channel that show how to associate caps/ resistors/...
I bought original parts from hificollective england.
www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html
Thanks so much for all the help….checked out the Jantzen Z and they’re like $15 more but have great reviews….if you think they’re worth it above the Audyn, I’ll totally get those, and extra 50 or so bucks for all 4 and to fit both speakers is not much in the big picture….if you think they’re much better, and the speakers deserve it and would actually improve them, not just an ego trip, I’ll do them….anything else you would change? Like wires?…I’m all ears….
@@galipan6213 hello. The most important parts is the drivers, if you get all drivers originals , any audiophile capacitors will do the job well. For pair of speakers you'll need 8 capacitors: (1.5+1.5)*2 (4.7+3.3)*2
For Capacitors start with audyn or clarity cap are good for price because you have to bay drivers too.
For wire in this jbl series they never died!!
You have to change the binding post if you want to be free to connect any speaker's cable to your speakers., because the original are very limited for use.
I love JBLs, but I hate the backside terminals. Horrible! Glad you replaced those!
Yes exactly 🤣🤣🤣
Vintage jbl speakers = high quality speakers + big size + big crossover inside + big boomers + small terrible binding post 🤕🤕🤕
why do that do perfectly sounding speakers and filters. those caps can last a lifetime, they do not need to be changed...
yes it is true that they can work for a lifetime, we do not exchange them because they no longer work, but because after 20 years and more the sound of these film capacitors deteriorates on the one hand, On the other hand, loudspeaker manufacturers sometimes put capacitors in a speaker that are not up to the drivers for budget reasons, so sometimes upgrading the capacitors can bring huge improvements to your speakers.
where can one buy these capacitors? is 400V ok?
I bought them from :
www.banzaimusic.com/Audyn/
hello, what is the model of the original woofer??
Helle. It's jbl 2213h 8ohm grey.
Thank you so much for the information ☺
@@EvanX-fu2to you Welcome 🙏
JBL often chooses the shortest route. Build a square box and put speakers in it. Why difficult when it can be easy.
How to search this capacitor .
Hello, just search on Google " Audyn Qs" and you'll find many sellers like banzai music, audiophonics and hificollective, these are my favourite websites to bought audiophile electronic parts.
I am surprised at such a simple, cheezie crossover for such a highly regarded speaker. 2 L-Pads and 2 capacitors with no inductors. No low pass to the woofer! My JBL Control Ones have a much more sophisticated crossover.
more complex doesnt mean better.. its more components to degrade the signal. Less is best.
@@karlmuller1976 GR-Research and I also disagree. Here is detailed testing and an upgrade and the reasons why. With just capacitors, what you have is a high pass to the mids and tweeter. There is no crossing over going on. The woofer frequencies extend into the midrange causing distortion and cancellation.
'One Of The Worst I Have Seen! Can The Retro JBL 4311 Be Fixed?'
czcams.com/video/F_hhoUz3bkQ/video.html
@@grob318 look at the epos es14 . it has no crossover but the drivers are designed so they rolloff without the need of one. They have one of the most transparent midrange s of any speaker ever made. Jbls designers made all their own drivers and would have had this in mind. If they thought the crossovers needed inductors and more they would have included them.
die potis sind auch klangmindernt die fliegen bei mir als erstes raus verschleißen nur und verfälschen den klang
Wow, no inductors. So, JBL is letting the woofer and midrange go flat-out with no additional roll-off.
Less components = more transparency
That 12" is glued in at the factory.
No, there's a foam gasket between driver and enclosure.
@@homemade_audio Thank you! Mine are JBL 4311's. Potentiometers are scratchy due to the degredation of the insulation material, I wish I could just wire them flat without the knobs, any suggestions appreciated. These have been my daily drivers for forty years, i love the sound.
@@m.hughes2521 pots from my 4312c are scratchy too. Anyone kwon where I can buy new ones? Or are there a way to clean them?
@@johnnywerner It's the degradation of the acoustic baffling material that gets in the potentiometers. They say you can take them out and spray cleaner in them but what a pain. I'm going to wire around the potentiometers and use an external EQ. I've had these 4211 monitors for 50 years and I can't find anything that sounds as good without spending thousand$.
It's pretty easy to do, just a little patience, you can get exact replacements at parts express, on my 4310s I believe it totalled around $50-60 for all 4 pots, exact as stock, 8 ohm 15 watt, literally a drop in replacement for those, then their trouble free for many many years again, whatever u do, don't bypass them, ruins the value of these collector models, just spend $50 and do it the right way...and be very careful removing the foilcal on front, if you bend or crease it it's done, and it can cost $100+ to get a new one.
Plz share the link to ourchase capacitor
www.banzaimusic.com/QS-6/
@Homemade Audio thanks for sharing the link .. since I am not the technical guy .. Not able to understand the capacitor value .. capacitor in jbl 4311 and jbl l100 are having same uf .. i have chosen two capacitors of Audyn Cap QS6 1,5uF 630V × 2 = 3 uf
Audyn Cap QS6 3,3uF 630V + Audyn Cap QS6 4,7uF 600V =8 uf . Is it fine for replacement as the vault r different ..plz suggest ..
@@dineshchonkar9776 yes it's ok correct 👍, 600v it support more power than 400v ones, both do the job well.
In addition, you have to bay high quality silver solder like mundorf or WBT
www.banzaimusic.com/Mundorf-Solder-Silver-Gold-50g.html
www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/wbt0800-silver-solder-melting-point-p-5168.html
@Homemade Audio Thanks. I appreciate your efforts ..
@@dineshchonkar9776 you welcome 🙏, I'm audiophile and vintage jbl studio monitors are my favourite speakers, in my setup jbl 4430 are the Masters 😉
This guy needs a table.
No, i have one, the real problem is space!!!
I don't have enough space for me + table + camera + lights because i work at home 🤷♂️
I'm thinking to rent a garage for that, but until now i don't have enough money for that.
Родные терминалы лучше были,зря менял
Un broccione
trai via che ien pusé veg ad Nuè,custa pusé i cundensatur che i cas
That speaker has much bigger problems than what new caps can solve. You have no bass bellow 90hz (and what you have is slow and boomy), you have an aggressive 4khz peak, a crazy aggressive 6-7 khz peak, an aggressive 11khz peak, and no high frequencies past 16khz. You need a new crossover that addresses those issues.
in a sense I agree with you to have a linear response, but don't forget for this job you need a crossover with a lot of components which will change the sound of the speaker.
you have talkeda lot about measurement and little about listening.
the best transparent audiophile speakers on the market have a filter with a few components so as not to influence the transparency.
in my view the best jbl vintage studio speaker with a good crossover like you describe is jbl 4411.
@@homemade_audio if you don't want to reduce the transparency of the sound you have to use quality components in the crossover, It is not about how many components but about the quality of these
@@MrJuanzaz no. I do not agree with you. many components have an impact on transparency even when using high-end oil capacitors !! How? 'Or' What ?? okay. I'm going to answer you. First, each component has a yield of less than 1. Next, each component has more loss, namely in a filter of 18db/octave or more, the sound passes in series through at least two components for each channel!!! namely that the sound signature of any loudspeaker is defined by its medium, which is controlled by two high-pass and low-pass filters in 3 way speakers which are based on mkp capacitors (between 20 and 100uf), tell me how much money you need to upgrade with high quality mkp caps ?????? I had kef 107/2 or the medium high pass filter based on 200uf caps on each speaker!!
@@MrJuanzaz you should be aware that the major Audiophile speaker companies are looking to build drivers that have a correct, flat, peakless response so they don't use a lot of components in the crossover for driver response correction. that's why full ranges have the best midrange response, and they're even used in high-end two-way speakers because they just require a super high-pass filtered tweeter with a single capacitor.
I know that most of speakers manufacturers make speakers based on seas/scanspeak/vifa/peerless...drivers. but every company demands some specific technical specifications on the drivers they need.
@@MrJuanzaz another important things: speakers based on big sophisticated crossover with a lot of components are very hard to drive by amplifiers. They need an amplifier with a lot of power (a lot of money) to work well.
Jbl 4311 are legendary speakers because their drivers are well made with less components in crossover.
i have the correct parts for these
eine 6 db weiche
wenige Bauteile = hohe Transparenz
@@homemade_audio ja das stimmt desto weniger verbaut wird desto besser aber mit spulen und wiederständen kann man die unruhe des frequenzverlaufs korrigiert werden...
durch Hinzufügen von Spulen werden es 12 dB/Oktave = steifere Schnitte mit weniger Bewegung und mehr Phasendrehung, was für den direkt ohne Filterung angeschlossenen Tieftöner nicht gut ist! Ich denke, bei diesem Modell suchte jbl mehr Transparenz als Linearität, was den Sieg dieses Modells ausmachte. Für diejenigen, die einen Lautsprecher ähnlich dem 4311 mit gut untersuchter Filterung und einem sehr linearen Ansprechverhalten suchen, bietet jbl seinen jbl 4411 an. Willkommen lieber Audiophiler 😉
@@homemade_audio ja das stimmt ich weiß was eine 12 db und eine 16 db weiche ist danke ....😊😊 ja das kann sein wir wollen aber keine hohen töne beim tieftöner die spule bringt nur 60 prozent der kondensator leitet die hohen töne abund danke ich bin schon seit meinen 15 lebensjahr mit hifi zugange wusste auch schon ohne fremde hilfe wie man lautsprecher an einen verstärker anschließt sorry ich habe das gefühl das endet bzw fängt mit rechtfertigung an und endet in schitstorm bevor ich mich selbst da rein ziehe .....🤔🤔🤨🤨#solltenichtunverschämtklingen
greetings from New York ... would the cap values you show also work for my 1985 4312 monitors?
For jbl 4312 mk1, Yes the same value but with extra 0.01uf cap for each HF driver.
- 3uf + 0.01uf in parallel for tweeter
- 8uf + 0.01uf in parallel for midrange
Jbl added 0.01uf caps to improve hf response.