Game AI - Funtelligence - Extra Credits

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  • čas přidán 15. 08. 2017
  • Games often advertise their complex AI, but in truth, offering a wide variety of simple NPC behaviors unique to each enemy often feels more engaging AND challenging to the player than putting them through multiple hours of facing a bunch of NPCs operating on the same AI behavior tree.
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Komentáře • 1,4K

  • @extrahistory
    @extrahistory  Před 6 lety +870

    Many games brag about their complex enemy AI, but "complex" doesn't always mean "good." So how should we design AI?

    • @emmah1408
      @emmah1408 Před 6 lety +3

      Extra Credits Why is there 12 comments i only see 3(incluoding my own in both numbers)

    • @legendarysauce5296
      @legendarysauce5296 Před 6 lety +3

      Extra Credits Please make a video about PMCs ( Private Military Contractors)

    • @lukkassus
      @lukkassus Před 6 lety +10

      Give us the instructions how to make microwave burrito please :3

    • @netherchu1294
      @netherchu1294 Před 6 lety +1

      The RandomQueso that's a great idea

    • @fuchsfalke5063
      @fuchsfalke5063 Před 6 lety +7

      Extra Credits I Would like to see a Game in the Future that uses real, Self-learning A.I.
      Imagine For example a Game like Battlefield where a "Black Knight" A.I. Joins every few Games and changes the way the Players have to behave in that Match by simply being to Strong For one player to Deal with
      Or a new Game Mode: the player-Horde against the A.I. Ninja
      A good example is the bossfight Mode from Robocraft, where one player can Build an Robot with 10 Times the strength of the Enemy players

  • @TheLifestream
    @TheLifestream Před 6 lety +2167

    Congrats on getting featured by TIME magazine. Well deserved.

    • @extrahistory
      @extrahistory  Před 6 lety +348

      Thank you! We are all incredibly excited about it! The news was a welcome morale boost.
      (For reference: time.com/4890205/best-youtube-channels)

    • @jimkirk9890
      @jimkirk9890 Před 6 lety +90

      they were no1 on their "15 youtube channels you should watch" list

    • @nirast2561
      @nirast2561 Před 6 lety +8

      link, please?

    • @hacsakalllar4038
      @hacsakalllar4038 Před 6 lety +49

      the competition isnt that hard when fucking jenna marbles is in fourth place. Still, congratulations. I just thought a show of this quality would deserve a higher award than just this.

    • @lemnlime66
      @lemnlime66 Před 6 lety +31

      Yeah, I thought a lot of Time's choices were questionable too. There's a ton of channels (like Game Theorists) that should've been mentioned before vlog crap

  • @garblechunk
    @garblechunk Před 6 lety +20

    That "FPS enemy" was totally adorable.

  • @Inferryu
    @Inferryu Před 6 lety +582

    Just remember guys, the job of an AI is not to destroy the player, but to entertain him.

    • @ghosttactician403
      @ghosttactician403 Před 6 lety +47

      Why not both

    • @Inferryu
      @Inferryu Před 6 lety +41

      An AI that is super good will frustrate the player, leading to him, eventually (be either on purpose or not), to find ways to put the AI in a situation where it was not mean to be, in turn, leaving the AI to look as it was poor, that of course, if the player doesn't leave the game first.
      In the end, the player will remember the encounter, not because it was memorable but because it was bad; as such, you want to challenge the player, entertain him, not show him who is best.

    • @franzluggin398
      @franzluggin398 Před 6 lety +8

      +Ghost Tactician Every "I wanna be the X" game ever.

    • @mildsoup8978
      @mildsoup8978 Před 6 lety +6

      Unless your Elon Musk, then the job of the ai is to destroy the best!

    • @Inferryu
      @Inferryu Před 6 lety +10

      Not really, even if your NPC is unbeatable by lore, it should not affect the way the encounter is played off, if you are forcing the player to fight you should still provide a memorable encounter, take the first boss of Megaman X or Metal Gear Rising, both of them are "unbeatable" and yet you still have a win condition, and both battles serve a purpose, but if you're just going to dust off the player on the first hit you may as well do it in a cutscene, otherwise the player may feel cheated.
      Also by entertaining, I don't mean easy, I mean it has to provide fun to the player, it can be simple or complex, easy or hard, but not just plain unfair.
      If your NPC is supposed to be the best of the best of the best, of course, it makes sense to make him challenging, and that's the thing, there's a clear difference between testing the skill of a player and abusing your systems to make a battle artificially hard.
      As an example, the last boss of AceCombat:AH is supposed to be a very skilled pilot, so skilled in fact that it will teleport to the back of the player most of the time, making the battle artificially hard and unfair regardless of your skill level.

  • @lvd8122
    @lvd8122 Před 6 lety +485

    I always loved the moment when someone died in Skyrim and people in the street or there friend reacted to it. This is AI that doesn't lead to me making a decision, but it's still important because it furthers the immersion!

    • @lotrbuilders5041
      @lotrbuilders5041 Před 6 lety +37

      But sometimes you assasinate 2 drunks and the third just walks right past not caring at sll

    • @lvd8122
      @lvd8122 Před 6 lety +5

      LoTR Builders as long as you don't offer them black braier mead they will like you:D

    • @marcusalm7350
      @marcusalm7350 Před 6 lety +20

      But are they really... truly...
      IMMERSIVE?

    • @Kartoffelkamm
      @Kartoffelkamm Před 6 lety +5

      I usually assassinate someone, preferrably a bandit, and when another bandit stops and notices the corpse, I kill that bandit, too. :)

    • @krzysztofbandyk168
      @krzysztofbandyk168 Před 6 lety +4

      Not as ... IMERSIVE as this booty mod there are many like it but this one's the new one

  • @derpaboopderp1286
    @derpaboopderp1286 Před 6 lety +355

    dont you hate when fighting game AIs are able to predict your moves

    • @purplechip8020
      @purplechip8020 Před 6 lety +45

      Derpaboop Derp "predict"

    • @garjian0
      @garjian0 Před 6 lety +107

      Don't forget, an AI can react in 1 frame, probably 0 frames.
      It's more likely they're sometimes told to wait for you to do something and respond instantly as though they had predicted it.

    • @TrainedOldSkool
      @TrainedOldSkool Před 6 lety +34

      Mortal Kombat 2 is notorious for this type of AI

    • @NathanTAK
      @NathanTAK Před 6 lety +18

      What if...
      *YOU* Are the AI‽
      (Duhn-duhn-DUHN!)

    • @DaikoruArtwin
      @DaikoruArtwin Před 6 lety +27

      I hate the Smash 4 AI exactly for that. All those frame-perfect reactions actually kill the fun. Mind-game strategies like baiting are of no use, all you can do is go for safe moves, punish their moves, or hope they decide not to dodge your attacks.

  • @Sheol02
    @Sheol02 Před 6 lety +252

    "If you folks are interested..."
    Well, duh. Of course, we are interested.

    • @timothymclean
      @timothymclean Před 6 lety +4

      Isn't that why the Extra Credits to-do stack is a mile tall?

    • @samplayssomegames3249
      @samplayssomegames3249 Před 6 lety +3

      Timothy McLean Its more like a concept than a number. Because its infinite.

    • @ingonyama70
      @ingonyama70 Před 6 lety +5

      Somewhere James is building a Taj Mahal out of individual pages for script ideas for episodes he wants to do.

    • @animusnocturnus7131
      @animusnocturnus7131 Před 6 lety +1

      This need more UPVOTES! XD

  • @nicfishman5194
    @nicfishman5194 Před 6 lety +255

    I'm a machine learning researcher, and I'm wondering what the future of machine learning in games is? How does a true AI, trained with whatever goals it may have, change the relationship between players and NPCs? Is it a good idea for all games to implement this, for all games to do it? I'd love to see an episode on this, especially in light of the news about Dota 2.

    • @zacharymorris3775
      @zacharymorris3775 Před 6 lety +27

      One place where i think machine learning would excel is rougelikes, because the ai would be different for every game too, whle also consistnelty making each run much interesting

    • @GameMidgard
      @GameMidgard Před 6 lety +7

      Machine learning has a few more specific uses, one is to learn the players patterns so it can predict and become harder, so both the player and the ai become better with time, making the game always challenging. The second one is so the player cant exploit anything in game, haveing an ai assess the players spam choices to see if there is an issue and stop the them from doing it so the players are forced to always find different and creative ways to play the game. I'd say those are the main uses for it

    • @Elepole
      @Elepole Před 6 lety +10

      I can say for sure machine learning is not good for all game. If not very carefully crafted, a machine learning AI could become impossible to beat, which totally counter the purpose of an AI. There are here to be beaten.
      Also, most game have no use of machine learning just because, as said in the video, sometime a simple AI is more than enough. Take a racing game for exemple, an AI in a racing game need to follow the optimal trajectory, and go just fast enough to provide a challenge to the player. Yes you could use machine learning so the AI could learn the optimal trajectory, or you could just program the trajectory directly, which will take less time and ressources.

    • @GameMidgard
      @GameMidgard Před 6 lety

      Also, its decided whether to use mechine learning or not depending on the mechanics in the game, depending on how you designd a game it can become harmful to the gameplay, i dont quite remember the name of the game but there was one that you played as a god and you interacted with the world through a chosen avatar, that you commanded and slowly it learned on how to automatically act when an event ocurred, but towards the middle of the game there were so many commands and changes on player interaction that the ai got confused and started to ruin the game. It is a very dangerous to choose to have machine learning in a game, specially because it takes too long to see how it turns out that when its finished, you dont have time to go back and start again if it goes wrong

    • @moartems5076
      @moartems5076 Před 6 lety

      Nic Fishman
      that sound like its not happening in the next 5 years, hardware requirements would probably too high

  • @youtubeuniversity3638
    @youtubeuniversity3638 Před 6 lety +40

    I can only imagine if my A.I. companions felt like I was playing favorites, and acted different in response, or if one of the enemy A.I., upon seeing me point my gun at them but not fire, decided to try reasoning with me, rather than shoot and surely die, or something else along those lines.

    • @krzysztofbandyk168
      @krzysztofbandyk168 Před 6 lety +15

      It looks like there are a lot of ppl who'd like to see less mourderous enemies and less friendly friends. A companion leaving the party becouse you didn't engage with them? A regular trooper joining your epic quest out of desperation? I'd love to see that in a big production one day.

    • @youtubeuniversity3638
      @youtubeuniversity3638 Před 6 lety +3

      Yeah, more chance of non-player characters changing opinions and even sides, expectantly or not as expectantly.

  • @FioreFire
    @FioreFire Před 6 lety +93

    how about AI in "player-like" positions, such as CPU opponents in strategy games or fighting games, or NPC party members in certain RPGs?

  • @MrTwo-yv2up
    @MrTwo-yv2up Před 6 lety +14

    "This is the most complex set of instructions ever made for preparing microwave burritos"
    -Extra Credits

  • @nicolasvignolo7601
    @nicolasvignolo7601 Před 6 lety +58

    Yes! A video on emotional engagement with AI would be great!

  • @andrasfogarasi5014
    @andrasfogarasi5014 Před 6 lety +165

    The problem with game AI:
    It's too easy to make it perfect. Creating an aimbot is a trivial task.

    • @orngjce223
      @orngjce223 Před 6 lety +21

      András Fogarasi This is actually a big issue with AIs for board games like chess. It is most fun to play these games against an opponent with a similar skill level whose thought processes can be understood and counterplayed against. Therefore, having the most powerful AI is actually not a benefit, as AIs play chess differently from humans (because they do tree searches rather than heuristics). Often, chess programs will simply give the AI less time to run and call that the "easier" difficulty setting, which doesn't make the AI moves any more understandable.
      I am hoping that the AI architecture used in AlphaGo can change this. High level Go players have reported that AlphaGo has a distinct "style" of play - that it has a "personality". And its value and policy network architecture definitely _feels_ like how humans learn these games.

    • @eliegbert8121
      @eliegbert8121 Před 4 lety

      well said!

    • @frost7423
      @frost7423 Před 2 lety

      like chess reaching perfect is impossible. you will never be able to compute every move in chess

  • @quincycampbell7392
    @quincycampbell7392 Před 6 lety +543

    What is the most annoying game AI you had to deal with?

    • @mcsniper180
      @mcsniper180 Před 6 lety +155

      Rad¡o Head basically any companion ai except Elizabeth

    • @beck0251
      @beck0251 Před 6 lety +196

      Rad¡o Head nothing specific, but when you have to lead someone from point A to point B as a quest, and the AI is so bad that that they end up walking into walls and can't get through doorways.

    • @GKCanman
      @GKCanman Před 6 lety +166

      Probably any escort quests. Just pick one.

    • @DalgonAI
      @DalgonAI Před 6 lety +26

      Dice AI

    • @rasmus7748
      @rasmus7748 Před 6 lety +6

      rome 2 on launch

  • @Soundole
    @Soundole Před 6 lety +6

    The animation in these has been off the chain lately! As always, I'm loving your work guys!

  • @TheOneTrueMaNicXs
    @TheOneTrueMaNicXs Před 6 lety +90

    Well you know I think some cases more life-like AI may be better. Like in skyrim where people have a schedule, some kind of disision tree swapping, or when you get 2 ai next to each other and they start talking.

    • @lvd8122
      @lvd8122 Před 6 lety

      Fuck, I just wrote a long comment about that, and now I find yours:D

    • @lvd8122
      @lvd8122 Před 6 lety +2

      Curtis Jones Ohh, and are you annoyed by the "I give up" npc line, they run away but start fighting again, and the fight doesn't end:D

    • @GameMidgard
      @GameMidgard Před 6 lety +1

      How complex and in what will the AI be complex in is completely dependable on what genre and type of gameplay you are going for with the game, if not thought thoroughly it can destroy the gameplay

    • @Inferryu
      @Inferryu Před 6 lety +5

      The two cases you described are not complex situations, they are referring to the kind of AI the game uses when the player interacts with NPC's, a schedule or interaction between NPC's is not always that complex (it may look like it is, but most of the time is not).

    • @qwerty11111122
      @qwerty11111122 Před 6 lety

      Didn't Spore (2008) have a feature in the tribal stage where two ai would talk if they were near each other?

  • @Alignn
    @Alignn Před 6 lety +6

    That cover-diving enemy is weirdly charming.

  • @CarstenGermer
    @CarstenGermer Před 6 lety +44

    +1 for an episode about emotional intelligence AI

  • @Blizzic
    @Blizzic Před 6 lety +35

    well fuck now i gotta go have a microwaved burrito

  • @Intrafacial86
    @Intrafacial86 Před 6 lety +22

    I think the next level in AI is AI that "learns" how to play against you, and so the challenge is learning how the AI learns, and then using that knowledge against it. So like, play 9 missions using one set of tactics against the AI, and then completely subverting its built-up expectations on the 10th mission.

    • @onemanjack6912
      @onemanjack6912 Před 6 lety +4

      Have you looked at "Hello neighbor?" It boasts a Learning Ai as the only enemy of the game who's trying to defend his house while you try to break in. He'll place bear traps, lock or barricade doors, and set all manner of DIY traps based on what paths you've taken in the past. Really cool project.

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard Před 6 lety

      The recent Lord of the Rings game and the old QuestWorld game did similar things too, though those were more like the games analyzing your style and creating a duplicate of the player character based on what it figured out.

    • @deg1studios
      @deg1studios Před 6 lety

      I remember reading that alien isolation had AI that learned from your playstyle. anyway it is not a futuristic idea, just go on facebook and look at the ads you get, probably ads for stuff you have searched for earlier this month. it is not hardwired to say "he searched for shoes so show him NIKE", that would be insanity given the amount of search words and synonyms you can use

  • @geoffreyperrin4347
    @geoffreyperrin4347 Před 6 lety +39

    Video game AI is my dream job. I'd love to learn how to make something like AI for a monster in Monster Hunter. Love the video!

    • @purplechip8020
      @purplechip8020 Před 6 lety +2

      Geoffrey Perrin A? why not multiple

    • @demongrenade2748
      @demongrenade2748 Před 6 lety +7

      It's hard as fuck but go for it. Study up on mathematics (particularly calculus and algebra). Then go for discrete math and algorithms. Programming is also a must at some point. Then you can get directly into the meat of it.

    • @geoffreyperrin4347
      @geoffreyperrin4347 Před 6 lety

      I'm actually already a graduate of computer science and game design from my university, it's just that I can't make AI work my first job, i'm not prepared as most of my work hasn't required much AI, so I don't have any AI work to show on a portfolio (working to resolve that)

    • @FlipJanson
      @FlipJanson Před 6 lety +1

      DemonGrenade274 I disagree. You certainly will need such knowledge for game development in general, but not for AI in particular. Like this video says, AI isn't as difficult or scary as you think. The scarier the prospect of creating that AI, the worse that AI will almost certainly be, especially for a Monster Hunter or Dark Souls style game. There will be no machine learning or neural networks here (I feel I should note that AI in games is very different from AI in education or research). You can always make an AI simpler by mimicking real choice with a decision tree and a bit of RNG for flavor, for most games no one will know the difference.
      In terms of decision making, it mostly just comes down to a tree of decisions that it makes periodically. If player behind me, do tail swipe. If player in front and close, do bite. If player in front and far, breath fire. That kind of thing. If you wanted to add a bit of variety in, you simply roll an RNG and make a choice based on that. If player behind me and rolled 0, tail swipe; if player behind me and rolled 1, tail slam. Actually implementing the attacks or movements goes beyond AI itself (though it is notable "Video Game AI" is not a full job on its own, it is simply part of being a game dev :P)
      Regardless, the key thing to remember is that, in general, what you really want is an AI that _appears_ to be smart. You don't want to try to actually make it smart, it will usually just end up a lot dumber for the effort. Oh, and I would be remiss not to mention Ellie from The Last of Us and Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite as good examples of AI that can appear smart in a variety of ways, and yet are still far simpler than their choices seem. I think the Bioshock one even has a video of the devs discussing it somewhere... I'll leave you to look for it on your own though.

    • @supermanboy1255
      @supermanboy1255 Před 6 lety

      Geoffrey Perrin I'd love to do computer science and chemistry and zoology when I graduate ( I know it's not the year 1500 where that would be really possible even computer science) but I feel like the public doesn't see science and I can't explain it and I've been wanting to make a game where the ai re able to build and learn a kind of mid evil based game and it's kind of a experiment to see if a ai can out class a human at building a successful civilization.

  • @daracaex
    @daracaex Před 6 lety +51

    An interesting question regarding AI: how do developers make it bad at stuff? For example, I throw my grenade at the bad guy. Sometimes, they're not quick enough to dodge away before being blown up. Or their aim is off when attacking you. What goes into deciding how often the bad guy tries and fails to accomplish what is in its decision tree?

    • @Bird_Dog00
      @Bird_Dog00 Před 6 lety +18

      A good question.
      I guess they put in a random number generator that triggers skripts that make the NPC miss or screw up a dodge.

    • @TheTriforceDragon
      @TheTriforceDragon Před 6 lety +23

      A term I have heard regarding shooters is: "Designing a perfect AI is easy, making it beatable and realistic is the hard part." I can why it would be the case. The perfect playing AI always hits a headshot the moment it can see the player, but that is hardly fair or fun. Delays and variables need to be a part of it.

    • @ingonyama70
      @ingonyama70 Před 6 lety +2

      As someone who's dipped their toe into MUGEN a time or two, I would dearly love the answer to this question.

    • @Mordalon
      @Mordalon Před 6 lety +2

      It might have been on this channel or another similar one, but I heard that in the Uncharted games the AI is programmed to always miss you for a specific amount of time after you come out of cover.

    • @chroniclerwolfram2411
      @chroniclerwolfram2411 Před 6 lety +5

      A very interesting question. After all if the AI in a shooter game actualy worked at 100% of it's capasity then every enemy would literaly BE an aimbot.

  • @Kabloosh
    @Kabloosh Před 6 lety +134

    Hey Extra credits, is there a way to get your viewers to suggest a topic for you? But not for your Extra History series.

    • @extrahistory
      @extrahistory  Před 6 lety +56

      Hi Kabloosh! Currently there is not any formal method of guaranteeing that a viewer-suggested topic will be featured on Extra Credits (the way that Extra History topics can be suggested and voted on). Most people just tweet/email/message us about their ideas anyway. We do read them all!

    • @thezerfer9860
      @thezerfer9860 Před 6 lety +22

      Extra Credits I know it is ironic to reply to this comment with a request but I have an interesting topic. How do fanbases affect games. For example Minecraft and undertale

    • @Kabloosh
      @Kabloosh Před 6 lety +3

      ok, thanks for answering!

    • @DByrd7
      @DByrd7 Před 6 lety

      doggo mcwoof
      I doubt it.
      Plenty of other channels have already covered that topic TO DEATH exactly because of Minecraft and Undertale.

    • @coolsceegaming6178
      @coolsceegaming6178 Před 4 lety

      Zach Fischer yaaasssssss Minecraft and undertale.

  • @DoctrDoc
    @DoctrDoc Před 6 lety +4

    James talking about Emotions in gaming is always a definite plus!

  • @Koniving
    @Koniving Před 6 lety +4

    Extremely interested in seeing how they could be used to create narrative elements.

  • @desertsoftime
    @desertsoftime Před 6 lety +57

    How does this apply to CPU players in fighting games and RTS's? I would think that in that scenario a more complicated AI is the better option so that a player can play possibly thousands of variations of the same scenario (eg. Fox only no items Final Destination) and still see new outcomes.

    • @justarandomguy9234
      @justarandomguy9234 Před 6 lety +13

      they never said that complex ai is bad.
      They said complex ai doesn't nessisarily mean better.
      In some circumstances, yes, complex ai is better.

    • @desertsoftime
      @desertsoftime Před 6 lety +9

      I just considered that because I am far less engaged in a game when I have a general sense of what the AI is going to do, which is the exact opposite purpose of AI as they stated. Even when I play an FPS I'd rather not know what would happen, but instead make assumptions that could be wildly off base and improvise when that occurs.

    • @agilemind6241
      @agilemind6241 Před 6 lety +6

      Not necessarily complex AI but many different AIs. The worst thing for an RTS is for every faction/side to behave the same regardless of how complex that behaviour is.

    • @GameMidgard
      @GameMidgard Před 6 lety +1

      Not exactly complex, but it does need a good learning pattern ai, it doesn't need to make complex decisions, but it needs to read the players movements and move accordingly, forcing the player to change the strategy used.

    • @claudiolopez9794
      @claudiolopez9794 Před 6 lety +1

      Stephen von Schulmann you got a point. More complexity in the cpu make the game Harder and more fun to discover. Fighting a lvl 9 fox would be very borring if you could read every reaction

  • @ThomastheLess
    @ThomastheLess Před 6 lety

    I don't even play video games all that often (MAYBE once a week for two hours) but you guys just have such engaging content that I keep watching these videos like an addict. Thanks for making CZcams better!

  • @JcubeJcube
    @JcubeJcube Před 6 lety +1

    I enjoyed the addition of the small amount of animation in the characters sneaking up on each other. Good job on that.

  • @ckay11002
    @ckay11002 Před 6 lety +14

    Here I was just beginning to make an ai for my game and EC just so happens to come out with this video.
    Coincidence?
    I think so.

    • @maoitsme0
      @maoitsme0 Před 5 lety

      So what AI technics have you discovered?

  • @Visteus
    @Visteus Před 6 lety +8

    *Immediately thinks of Dark Souls enemies*

  • @Avellimachi
    @Avellimachi Před 6 lety

    Please come back to this! I work in a GAME in the UK and your show helps me to do the work I love and enriches my understanding of my favourite hobby. Please never stop.

  • @BlueFireDudester
    @BlueFireDudester Před 6 lety

    The art for these videos are getting better by the episode, good job!

  • @ArcturusMinsk
    @ArcturusMinsk Před 6 lety +4

    I think a great example of this is Dark Souls AI. It's often predictable, intuitive and exploitable, but it's always engaging. There's just something about fighting a Dark Souls enemy that's fundamentally engaging.

  • @garr_inc
    @garr_inc Před 6 lety +8

    I am quite interested in AI influencing emotional experience, so please do the episode about it!

  • @Szarps
    @Szarps Před 6 lety

    I have to recognize that this particular video (and surely many more) have a really good time management, I truly felt like there was a good amount of information in a short window of time which was easy to grasp and understand. Also, I was thinking around the 4-5 minute mark that the video was about to end but there was still more left (which that is really awesome). Congrats on the good writing/directing of the video and keep at it with the good job!

  • @tomaszkrawczyk9344
    @tomaszkrawczyk9344 Před 6 lety

    Your content is gold. Animations make this flawless.

  • @NotsoNick
    @NotsoNick Před 6 lety +6

    What a fascinating topic!

  • @petfriendamy
    @petfriendamy Před 6 lety +16

    Very interesting episode! I'd say there's definitely a time and place for complex AI, but sometimes it just might not be that time nor place. Also, I would definitely be interested in an episode about AI impacting the emotional experience!

    • @Zack_Wester
      @Zack_Wester Před 6 lety +1

      emotional can be had at even really basic AI....
      I had a guard in Hl1 survive a encounter against a hostile Marine and well I did what I could to escort said guard to safely (or a ladder).
      ((the security guard even whit there crappy pistil could still kill a marine in a 1 vs 1 if the fight was on mid range mostly becos the guard had better aim))..
      the short range and the marine won all the time.

  • @kinshraslave3450
    @kinshraslave3450 Před 6 lety

    I'm always so happy to see these new episodes

  • @uhobme2028
    @uhobme2028 Před 6 lety +1

    It's a joy learning from this channel

  • @sazzy4o
    @sazzy4o Před 6 lety +22

    "When we talk about AI in games, we're not really talking about artificial intelligence. We are talking about decision trees" made me shudder. There are lots of different types of ai in games. Decision trees are not even the only type of expert system in games. One of the most common AI in games traditionally was decision trees. Nowadays there are all sorts of AI from bleeding edge neural networks, to heuristics like the A Star algorithm, to even cellular automata.

    • @Roxor128
      @Roxor128 Před 6 lety +5

      Add finite state machines to that list. That's another common approach.
      I wouldn't be surprised if there are game AI systems which use more powerful models, like pushdown automata, too.

    • @Certio0
      @Certio0 Před 6 lety +3

      Parts of GalCiv2 AI worked like a chess computer, using the free CPU power during players turn to calculate turns ahead and choose optimal outcomes. So the longer the player took their turn/more powerful CPU would mean more better play by the AI opponents.

  • @bookfan1239
    @bookfan1239 Před 6 lety +3

    Yeah, I personally want to come back to the narrative part of AI.

  • @TheMellowSide
    @TheMellowSide Před 6 lety

    Really loved the slide art this week, great stuff

  • @tysonasaurus6392
    @tysonasaurus6392 Před 6 lety

    Just want to say. This is one of my favorite EC vids in a while, as always fantastic job guys 👍

  • @theebulll
    @theebulll Před 6 lety +4

    I am very interested in emotional engagement via AI.

  • @Awalys
    @Awalys Před 6 lety +14

    Pitch this video to Bethesda.

  • @bensmith1681
    @bensmith1681 Před 6 lety

    Definitely want to see part 2 of this. Great video!

  • @gruntage95
    @gruntage95 Před 6 lety +1

    6:49, your dearest artist just summed up the 'uncanny valley' in one picture, good work!

  • @fobusas
    @fobusas Před 6 lety +14

    But how many times it actually is the case of over-engineered AI vs not enough attention paid to good AI? Most of the time AI is just god damn awful. How many times your teammates get in the way? How many times in RTS the opposing AI simply cheats instead of playing better? Etc, etc. I don't think developers need incentive not to invest in AI, as they do a fine job of it now..

    • @miguelpereira9859
      @miguelpereira9859 Před 6 lety +1

      Vaidas Šukaukas I think that in order for an AI to appear smart you don't really need a lot of decision paths, just don't make them DUMB. Like you said, team mates standing in the way, or in Crysis (I am playing it right now so it's a pretty specific example that I could remember) when you shoot enemies with a silencer they will just stand there instead of looking for cover

  • @Echo_Maker
    @Echo_Maker Před 6 lety +3

    I have a suggestion for a video. Over saturation of the video game market

  • @omikun17
    @omikun17 Před 6 lety

    heck yes come back to this. Would love to hear more about this.

  • @electronfeline424
    @electronfeline424 Před 6 lety

    I'd love to see more about this.
    Love the channel as always btw.

  • @johannesberger883
    @johannesberger883 Před 6 lety +26

    Paradox please see this

  • @thetwilighthunter1150
    @thetwilighthunter1150 Před 6 lety +4

    For the topic you said for the end of your video Look to The Last Guardian!

  • @MrJotaFelipe
    @MrJotaFelipe Před 6 lety

    Yes, please come back to this!

  • @danielscully3952
    @danielscully3952 Před 6 lety

    I have no idea why I enjoy these videos, but I genuinely do. My thanks to you for creating your content, even if I can't put my finger on why I enjoy it!

  • @marshami
    @marshami Před 6 lety +4

    3:54
    Like Halo?

  • @GaminRiolu
    @GaminRiolu Před 6 lety +6

    Hmm what games have the extra credit crew worked on?

    • @gamingmilk829
      @gamingmilk829 Před 6 lety +1

      James has been a part of Rainmaker Games, Snow Cannon Games and was the CEO of Divide By Zero games.
      I don't know about the rest of the crew.

  • @cj013810
    @cj013810 Před 6 lety

    This was one of my favorite episodes in a while I think it would be awesome if you talked more about this topic or others like it

  • @armaniac661
    @armaniac661 Před 6 lety

    Yes, please come back to this :) I'd love to hear more!!!

  • @Scarletraven87
    @Scarletraven87 Před 6 lety +36

    There is one thing I have to disagree with you, EC.
    A.I. should't be intuitive. When an A.I. is stripped of its masks and made naked by the player's eye, the singleplayer experience is dead.
    I bring RTS A.I. as an example of this; not the units but the enemy CPU.
    But it is also true with FPS, (I exploited quake2 A.I. on multiple occasions) and I bet with many more.

    • @draketatoes2412
      @draketatoes2412 Před 6 lety +10

      I see the point you are trying to make here - behaviour should be more natural and unpredictable. Yet all games from Halo to Splinter cell are all about devising a plan and then putting it to action. If you throw that grenade and the enemy runs for cover only 50% of the time then you don't get that satisfaction of being a strategic thinker. Same with guys in stealth games always annoyingly voicing their thoughts.
      I see many ways AI could improve while not becoming more unintuitive, reacting more diversely to more player actions is one of them. They see you carrying a shotgun - they will try to keep their distance, you broke into their compounds unseen armed with a tranquilizer gun - they will set up traps, you walked into the women's restroom - they will berate you for being a pervert. It's not in unpredictability, it's in variety, because games are solid mechanics to be conquered with diverse skills.

    • @franzluggin398
      @franzluggin398 Před 6 lety +12

      There is no one definitive answer. The Mario games would not benefit from unintuitive AI, in fact, they would get worse by making the AI less predictable.

    • @SangerZonvolt
      @SangerZonvolt Před 6 lety +7

      Well, that´s why he said over time. If you can´t learn an AI, then it´s no better than an random number generator, because unpredictable decission mean it rarely does the best decissions. It also wouldn´t make the NPCs more lifelike, but less. In real life you learn to predict people, too. That what makes you connect with them. Someone who is completely unpredictable isn´t a good character but a psychopath. It would get even worse if those were mission critical and on your side. Remember every escort mission you ever had with a bad companion AI. Now imagine those missions with completely unpredictable companions.

    • @whywasmyrealnamehere
      @whywasmyrealnamehere Před 6 lety +4

      That's a flawed concept for FPS's if you've actually been in any kind of fight. Plans never survive first contact, and enemies being predictable is absolutely immersion-breaking.

    • @Yggdracyril
      @Yggdracyril Před 6 lety +5

      An AI can be unpredictable and still have reasonable decisions. It's no the same as making random decisions.

  • @theJellyjoker
    @theJellyjoker Před 6 lety +4

    AI, Artificial Idiots. That being said once you have fought a learning machine, humans don't offer a meaningful challenge anymore.

  • @Lurdiak
    @Lurdiak Před 6 lety

    The art was great in this one! So many fun little visual gags.

  • @levilukeskytrekker
    @levilukeskytrekker Před 6 lety +1

    Yes, yes, yes, come back to this, pleeeease! I love this topic!

  • @eightbait06
    @eightbait06 Před 6 lety +3

    In Soviet Russia, AI Programs YOU.

  • @craigbutler3282
    @craigbutler3282 Před 6 lety +16

    This is one of the reasons why games like monster hunter got under my skin. Besides the various tells the monster gives you before using an attack, there was no way to know which attack it'll do next. It makes the hunts exciting and different, but it also makes me want to murder someone with a spoon whenever it initiates an attack that is completely inescapable for me.

    • @chroniclerwolfram2411
      @chroniclerwolfram2411 Před 6 lety +3

      In fairness I think attacks like that play a big part in the "makeing interesting problems for the player" part of an AI's job in a game.
      While it would be frustrating to die or get screwed over by that inescapable attack the first time, on every subsequent encounter with that enemy you know they have that ability.
      At that point the game shifts gear from "spot the tell and react" to "figure out how to bait the AI into doing it's less anoying attacks".
      Heck as a SoulsBorne veteran I can say that for my own part knowing how to bait the attacks I personaly find easiest to deal with is 80% of how I beat most bosses (and even most reasonably hard enemies) in such games.

    • @justdontask3
      @justdontask3 Před 6 lety +7

      theyre only inescapable because you put yourself in the wrong position at the wrong time. one of the things i love about MH is that every single attack is completely avoidable, and its completely fair that i got smacked by it. they are hard games. very hard. but theyre just too fair.

    • @ZombieBarioth
      @ZombieBarioth Před 6 lety

      justdontask3
      While I agree, to be fair the AI is also a lot less predictable than in older games both in who they target and in choosing attacks.
      I think most of us run into those situations where they home in on one player or spam or chain attacks at some point.
      For me that was Deviljho, it followed me around a few minutes spamming its head-swipe, with the occasional boulder or body-check.
      I survived several close calls while the other guys sat and watched.XD

  • @darthcrypto5454
    @darthcrypto5454 Před 6 lety

    yes, please do come back to this. :) Good stuff, as usual.

  • @Beefman.0
    @Beefman.0 Před 6 lety

    The art is just getting better and better

  • @justderp5713
    @justderp5713 Před 6 lety +5

    *warmonger*

  • @madcatthing1238
    @madcatthing1238 Před 6 lety +13

    Video is good
    However - can you stop using the word SHMUP

  • @sirkibbles1944
    @sirkibbles1944 Před 5 lety

    This is the first video I watched from your channel. I later discovered Extra history and the rest is history

  • @nathanlink169
    @nathanlink169 Před 6 lety +2

    Hello! Game AI Programmer here! Just figured that I'd mention the thing about behaviour trees driving an AI isn't strictly always true. Behaviour Trees are definitely the most common one, and very powerful, but they work on a very "yes" and "no" basis, but sometimes that isn't powerful enough, for games like RTS's.
    There's a bunch of ways to implemented this, like Utility Based Reasoning, to work in a much more fluid way. It makes it much less predictable, but for some games that's what you want.
    Anyways, just thought I'd throw out there that Behaviour Trees aren't the be-all and end-all! Thanks for the video, have a great day to anyone reading!

  • @ferociousfeind8538
    @ferociousfeind8538 Před 6 lety

    I really really like the occasional animation. It dumps an amazing amount of life into your videos. :D

  • @christhethinmint
    @christhethinmint Před 6 lety

    This episode has been especially helpful for me as i am currently pondering on how to improve my AI for a squad tactics game im working on as a hobby project. Thanks for the help, and I'd love to see you talk more about AI!

  • @CFood0
    @CFood0 Před 6 lety

    Feels like there's a part two coming and I hope that comes soon!

  • @stupogo0
    @stupogo0 Před 6 lety

    please come back to this in the future!

  • @insertgenericnamehere5978

    This video's release is quite terrifying since I've been working on Game AI all day.

  • @MewMewDerez
    @MewMewDerez Před 6 lety

    oh man PLEASE come back to this. This episode was super informative and interesting but I was a little disappointed it was only about Enemy AI. hopefully this latter portion they teased is where non-enemy AI comes in. can't wait!

  • @RocketRoosterFilms
    @RocketRoosterFilms Před 6 lety

    4:25 Mr Game and Watch! Your visual aids keep getting better and better! 😄

  • @ATCraiger
    @ATCraiger Před 6 lety

    Awesome. I'm working on an AI series myself, so this was very helpful. Please do continue making more AI related videos, it's such an interesting field.

  • @DrawnByDandy
    @DrawnByDandy Před 6 lety +1

    Yes pls come back to this

  • @RedstoneQwerty
    @RedstoneQwerty Před 6 lety +1

    I remember hearing about a game that had various 'traits' for their enemy ai. Basically, performing or observing certain actions could raise or lower variables such as 'courage', 'morale', and 'stress'.
    Higher courage would allow the ai to stay out of cover longer and get closer to damage sources.
    Lower morale would make the ai more likely to hide or avoid engaging you, and make them less likely to attempt to achieve objectives.
    Since the ai could adapt on the fly, it made gameplay very interesting, as you could use intimidation tactics to scare the enemy away, and the bots would constantly try to counter your tactics, requiring you to switch tactics often.
    Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the game, but it was great fun the one time I played it.

  • @dhuyd
    @dhuyd Před 6 lety

    This goes back to your video on "Depth Versus Complexity". I would love to see more videos on game AI. Sometimes the environment is a complex AI as a whole, but is distributed through simple entities or attributes that fundamentally resonates in a granular snowball like fashion, intuitively resonating with and affecting the player in nuanced ways.

  • @LyingTube
    @LyingTube Před 6 lety +1

    Definitely come back to this!

  • @Jason-ke4jf
    @Jason-ke4jf Před 6 lety +1

    Please do come back to this! PLEASE!

  • @IAmTheAce5
    @IAmTheAce5 Před 6 lety +1

    Please come back to this. I want to know how an NPC AI can make me cry

  • @buddhasystem
    @buddhasystem Před 6 lety

    Please continue this!!

  • @missedthebandwagon976
    @missedthebandwagon976 Před 6 lety

    Man the art was on point this episode.

  • @sonictimm
    @sonictimm Před 6 lety

    Loved the art in this episode

  • @CompleteAnimation
    @CompleteAnimation Před 6 lety +2

    Please do more episodes on AI. Especially real AI and how it could work with games.

  • @VorpalGun
    @VorpalGun Před 6 lety +1

    The question of emotional engagement is quite interesting, and I would like seeing an episode on it, as you suggested.

  • @babunking7401
    @babunking7401 Před 5 lety

    İ remember watching this 1 year ago and this was my FİRST Extra Credits video!

  • @GusdudeTyr
    @GusdudeTyr Před 6 lety

    I would definitely love more AI episodes!

  • @mcguintyspub
    @mcguintyspub Před 6 lety

    Yes, please make the next A.I. episode! I would love to learn about emotionally engaging AI.

  • @matthewwikaryasz
    @matthewwikaryasz Před 6 lety

    More of this please!

  • @_mwk
    @_mwk Před 6 lety

    I would enjoy seeing more videos on game AI, it's not something I have seen often on this channel or elsewhere, outside of hearing horror stories of how (not) to do game AI.

  • @pierrestempin100
    @pierrestempin100 Před 6 lety

    super great video, as always :)

  • @colinbunn6066
    @colinbunn6066 Před 6 lety

    I would like to know! Please continue this.

  • @kwerboom
    @kwerboom Před 6 lety

    Yes! Bring on "Game AI Part 2".

  • @jjc5475
    @jjc5475 Před 6 lety

    i'm very interested in what is mentioned at the end. keep up the good work. :D