Rick Priestley on Warhammer Fantasy Battle 4th-6th Editions (Part 2 of 2)
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2023
- Link to Part 1: • Rick Priestley on Warh...
This video takes off from where part 1 ended, with Rick covering the behind the scenes of Warhammer Fantasy Battle 4th-6th editions, and a little bit on Warhammer Ancient Battles at the end of the video. A really great experience to hear his insight into the game, and a pleasure to meet with him in person.
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Mr Priestley is underappreciated. I love to hear him talk about stuff, anything really. Please make more interviews with him.
The Emperor as Andy Chambers describes him
Well, If u go out of GW, you'll see he is not. Mags such as Wargames Illustrated show him the respect he deserves. He is not only father to Warhammer Fantasy or 40K, but many other games outside (and inside), Wames Workshop, such as Bolt Action, Black Powder, Hail Caesar, Warlords of Erewhon...
This came up in my feed randomly. I was at the GW design studio around early nineties, just before the move to the new studio. Nice unexpected trip down memory lane. Still laugh when i remember Rick's face when Brian randomly, out of nowhere announced the extinction of the Slan at a fan meet and greeet in response to a question from a fan who had managed to build a massive Slan warpack. Thursday night games in Aly McHoist's house with the perry twins, Jervis et all some of my fondest memories of that time.
Was there in the early 90s. We did the translation and production for the German Warhammer in roughly 5 weeks with two staff just before Christmas 1993. Our improvised office was the room above the Derby store. 40K had to be done by the End of January 1994 - it was a pretty wild time back then.
Thank you for the translation, I own some of the German books.
Vielen Dank und Grüße aus Berlin.
Many thanks for your effort. Your translation is probably the one I started playing the game with. Moin aus Hamburg.
Dang
4th was amazing and no one can change my mind that the battle magic cards was the best way of doing magic, so much fun.
Dice-based magic aside, I think the biggest change that 6th brought was the points cost overhaul and a de-emphasis of characters with magic items (we used to call 5th edition "Herohammer"…) because it fundamentally changed army compositions - your 2k army was no longer a 600pts general on a monster (decked out in the most powerful magical items the game had to offer), some wizards, as much artillery as you could afford and the bare minimum of chaff troops… but essentially the opposite. At least in early 6th edition (not long after Ravening Hordes), I recall games were won or lost mostly on the back of regiments, with magic items/spells playing a much, much lesser role. For me, that was peak WHFB.
In hindsight, I’d argue that change killed whfb. It seems clear that heroes - and especially monstrous/mounted heroes - underpinned a lot of WHFB’s popularity.
Plus, ironically, hero hammer is an ultimately lower cost army than one where each unit is 2-3 box sets for half the points of one hero on dragon kit.
Compound that with GW price increases, and WHFB from 6th-8th effectively became an overpriced historicals game in terms of game experience.
Agreed. The changes from 5th to 6th were pretty substantial, a good bit beyond "just the magic system changed". Army composition changed drastically, for starters.
Another significant change was made somewhere between 4th and 6th that was clearly just an attempt to sell more models with game design taking a backseat.
At one point, a Victory Point was earned for destroying a unit based on each partial or full 100 points that the unit cost. So for example, a unit that had cost 75 points was worth 1 Victory Point to the other player when destroyed or routed off the table. A unit that cost 125 points was worth 2 VPs. But this was changed (I believe in 5th or 6th edition) so that any unit costing less than 200 points was worth only 1 VP. This obviously discouraged the use of small units, as you would be wiser to bulk it up to 199 points or as close as possible as that made it harder to destroy and your opponent still would get only 1 VP for doing so.
5th was the most fun I have ever had pushing minis around a table. It was just incredibly good fun. And the card based system was the best and most fun. Yes was it ridiculous and whacky at times? YES, but that was the point. Whne whfb became massive blocks of dudes, it lost its mojo.
Having your general on a flying monster was also a huge liability - especially as cannons seemed to be more like anti air laser defence!
Most armies lost the ability to put a more disposable hero on a cheap flying monster, which was a real shame of 6th ed imo.
I’d love to see him interviewed about the Eldar Codex for 40k 2nd edition. The writing in it is the high point of any Warhammer product in my opinion - fantastically evocative, and beautiful, real style and substance. Is there any chance you could interview him about that?
I’m guessing the bean counters wanting to cut costs on the Army Books is why Chaos Dwarfs got shafted for theirs and theirs was explicitly a compilation of WD articles rather than a polished book.
I also expect the lack of enthusiasm for Ancient Battles from the company was entirely down to the fact that GW didn’t produce historical minis, so the game essentially served as an advertisement for rival manufacturers, so most of the actual revenue the game generated was going to companies like Foundry and GW only got the profits from the rulebook (and maybe paints and brushes).
WHAB lasting as long as it did, with so many amazing books, was definitely a miracle of its own. Loved that line.
@@wargamer234 My dad and I got so far as to plan out our armies for that game - I was going to play Egyptians, he was going to buy Sea People. Never happened in the end though.
Chaos Dwarves were WD presents because it was the WD team who came up with them, Robin Dews being the WD editor at the time (ruleswise at least; the models have been around since the mid eighties). It's why they ended up in that strange limbo for the next three editions; with the chaos of the expansion Rick mentions most of the guys who worked on the book ended up getting reassigned to other projects (or in Dew's case, kicked up the corporate ladder) to the point that pretty much anyone who had any interest in doing something with them, at least for WFB, was inevitably busy doing something else whenever the opportunity came up.
I got on board with 4th edition. Love old Warhammer. I must say that 6th is probably my favorite. Not just in terms of the rules, but also in terms of the tone and art direction. Slightly darker and more grounded. More like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay which I really love.
And box sets I got my 4th edition armies still but man those blister packages were a pain.
Hearing the story of Warhammer from Rick Priestley himself is amazing. Thank you!
Loved 4th edition, loved the rules, always a great “story” in each battle - had a feeling there was a lot of care put into that fantastic box. Thank you.
It's a tale as old as time. Passionate people trying to build something great, constantly held back by deadlines, budgeting constraints and compromise.
The irresistible creeping corruption of the Realm of Corporatism.
As it turns out; passion doesn't automatically equate to making money. And a corporation only survives by making a profit.
The one with the cards is the one I played as a teenager. I still prefer that over any other. The cards were such a nice touch!
Magic cards? 5th edition. But every edition had cards you could buy
Our favorite whipping boy during sixth was Gav, and why am I not surprised to hear Rick doesn't have an account of who poor Gav's mentor was. I think Gav was the posterchild of on-the-job training.
Fascinating to hear about the crediting writers stuff.
Any chance we might get a 40K interview?
Agreed. That would great.
I also found that remarkable. A lot of voices online blame GW's lack of crediting artists and designers (which by the way I still think one should question) to "evil corporatism", yet here we have mr. Rick Priestley himself, the godfather-designer of Warhammer, advocating the removal of a persona-based culture at GW.
Maybe of course, to counterargument, it's an easier thing to say when one has already been credited for their work in the past. But remarkable insight nonetheless.
It’s on our to do list!
@@IAmTurbogfx It's a bit disappointing that he feels this way, but as he otherwise comes across very well in the videos and we all have a great deal to thank him for I guess it's just a case of not everyone having to agree about everything!
@@ClydeMillerWynant 100% agree
Interviewing Matt Ward would make for an interesting subject, given how polarizing of a figure he was in the late 2000s.
Love to listen to these interviews, glad to hear Rick favours the 4th ed, clearly the best one ;)
Quick and dirty by 5:30…love it. :)
I started with 4th edition, and it's still my favorite, so nice to know I'm in good company!
Perfect way to start a Sunday evening! 👌
Indeed!
*enjoy a Sunday mid-afternoon
The creator of Warhammer,thank you very much for that interview and I’m already waiting for part3 or maybe a new series.
Cheers
4th was the first edition I could wrap my head around as a kid. I would really LOVE to hear his thoughts on writing WARMASTER. Still to this day, it is one of the finest mass battle rulesets EVER written. I'm surprised he totally forgot about that game.
We’re filming a Warmaster video soon
The 4th edition is where i really started. My mate at the time got me into warhammer that summer of 92 with 3rd edition & advanced hero quest. It's still my favourite edition to this day. Empire was my 1st army. Ricks right those army books really captured my imagination & had most of them. The best edition ever was 4th, in my opinion, also.
Would love to ask him how he thinks 4th would have been different had Bryan Ansell still been in charge.
Oh my god, I have been trying to find out who wrote Codex Space Wolves! Everyone says it was Bryan Ansell, but there's never any original sources for that. Everyone just seems to quote everyone else! Thanks Rick for setting the record straight. Gotta say, I'm on 'team credit the creators', don't let the bastards minimise your work!
Warhammer English Civil War was my first Warhammer when I was in high school before I picked up Warhammer Fantasy 6th ed. I picked up the core box and a couple army books my senior year in high school (class of 2003) and finally started playing fantasy in 2005. I LOVED the 6th ed army books.
Great interview. Also props to the Emperor helping out with the lighting!!!
So well done, really enjoying these.
Brilliant, love this content :)
Great interview! Thanks very much for doing these
Let's goooo!!!! Thank you for getting the great man to speak about the definitive version of Warhammer Fantasy (5th).
These videos are awesome! Thank you!
Best thing I’ve heard in ages thanks heaps
These are all fascinating looks into the creative history, thankyou rock and filmdeg for getting these out to the world.
Amazing, thank you so much for this.
Would love to see a 40K interview
Lovely stuff. Thanks for dedicating time and effort to this - a treat.
I've been absolutely loving all of these interviews. Thank you so much for doing this!
Dude this was brilliant. Talking about the time I got into the hobby and some of the editions I first played. Great stuff man!
Ah love these vids 😊 keep up the great content too!
It's so nice to hear these people that had such an impact on my early life giving us a peek behind the curtain.
C'mon Rick.. I've growth with your game... Be proud of!!!!!!
Thank you for doing these interviews and for posting them like this. Many of us want moar moar moar! and I think you've found a nice visual format with the interviewee to one side and pictures of the products being discussed on the other, simple and effective.
Excellent interview, absolutely love hearing all the work he has done. Keep up the great content.
6th was the best, IMO. Thanks for the share!!
Cracking video!
I'm glad they managed to get WAB made, even if it sounds like it was difficult. It is a fun game.
Brilliant video series
I'm loving this content
I remember buying my copy of Warhammer Ancients from Jervis, in person at Warhammer World, back in the day!
Warmaster was Ricks crowning achievement imho.
Thank you so much!
great video
keep up the good work
Thanks so much. Superb
Fantastic thanks and good to hear his favourite was 4th Edition that Dark Omen the PC & PSX game was based on. We still mod it if anyone fancies joining in the multiplayer fun. ❤
Very nice!
Brilliant 🙌🏻
I wouldn't want to be credited for Space Wolf missile pod / ass can spam either, Rick!
Just kidding, love the work you did. Have so many great memories of this era of warhammer, particularly playing orcs and dwarfs on the bedroom floor with my brother! Thank you for such wonderful times!
Great job, please more interviews to GW Legends!!
Great interview, I really enjoyed it. I still play WHFB 7th Edition weekly and still love the game. I really miss Warhammer Ancient Battles - no other ruleset has replaced it. Can I give a shout out to Warhammer English Civil War? I still play that as well.
I love this man, but he’s quite mistaken on one thing: the change between 5th and 6th edition wan’t just the magic system. It was unit stats being lowered down (in 5th a Vampire Lord had S7 and T6 base, for example) and magic items being reigned in and divided by army book. The consequence was that the old “herohammer” in which units were largely inconsequential because what mattered were super characters (that Slaan dropping hills on your head…) was effectively killed off and the game was much better for it. A huge part in this radical change came (I believe) from Mordheim, which, while being 5th Ed still, had a focus on lower power characyamg a grimier and darker feeling than 5th edition very bright approach to Warhammer
9:50 Is Rick talking about 3rd edition 40k here where the books were smaller, 5th edition fantasy didn't have smaller books did it?
I think he misremembered too!
Would love to hear more of the Warhammer Ancient battles, warmaster and how all that eventually led to hail caesar.
We’ll be filming a Warmaster video sometime in the future.
Very interesting couple of vids these. Was curious abt the lack of writer credits in individual books comment. That sort of thing is so often used as a stick to beat the faceless, more corporate modern GW but seems like that angle was one that dated back to the early days of the company
Sure hope there will be a 40k interview!
Both fascinating and heartbreaking.
So interesting, I only played WHFB for a few years whilst it was 3rd edition, great times, happy childhood! Now I sit in front of my PC and play warhammer total war instead. 😀
Keep these up please, would love to hear from Nigel Stillmann, Jervis, Adrian Wood, Jake Thornton, Ian Pickstock to nake a few.
Do you plan on interviewing Rick again for Warhammer 40K editions?
What he says about 5th edition army books being cut in content with fluff etc. was one of my main gripes with 3rd edition codices. I remember hearing a ton of rumours about lore from the 2nd edition codicies without being able to read it and the fluff in 3rd ediiton was thin cruel indeed. Fortunately by 4th edition the situation started to improve a lot (the black codices).
Imagine, some of these brilliant game/rule makers would start a Kickstarter campaign ...
I'd be curious in hearing what Rick felt he was better at and what he found more fulfilling--production or game design.
I played a lot of 6th ed fantasy. Absolutely loved the dice pool for magic. For me that was a sweet spot for the game, but even then you could tell that the models for it were barely selling and there was already so much 3rd party ranges that could cover most of the basic units on the cheap. I felt that the following editions were designed to fail.
Was the FW Tamurkhan books/project based on some work Rick did before he left? I seem to remember him working on a project with Forgeworld around 2009/10.
Tamurkhan was started with Rick, but finished without him if I remember correctly
@@eriksolie511 that’s how I remember it too. Just second guessing myself as Rick was saying he ended his WFB involvement after 6th.
@@Vibealite Basically he wrote Tamurkhan, gave it to FW and then they did whatever they wanted with it.
Warhammer historical! I have that book in mint condition. One day I'll have a go, if I ever find anyone interested.
I would love to hear more about how the IP genesis was produced and how concepts like the wind of magic came to be what it is
I think mr Priestley may have misremembered when they started downsizing the army books. The army books released for 5th edition during the late 90s were just as expansive as the ones from the early 90s and had plenty of background, and cost the same. For 6th edition starting in 2000, however, the army books were drastically reduced and huge swathes of background were simply cut, though the price did go down.
I thought the same thing! Maybe he was thinking of 3rd Ed 40k Codexes, which were essentially magazines rather than books?
40k 3rd edition very much set the style for WFB 6th edition, so the overlap in timing probably didn't help. Tuomas Pirinen also came aboard for 5th edition and worked on many of those army books before he was put in charge of the 6th edition rules.@@Heimdall1987
For me 4th edition has alwaya felt like the "perfect" edition of Warhammer. There have been a handful of changes which i think were interesting, but they took too much away from the core.
The magic system and magic items were a bit broken. Everyone remembers it as ‘Herohammer’ as rank and file infantry were kind of an afterthought. We used to play smaller games with magic item restrictions. It was clearly a central design ethos of 6th to tone down the characters and magic.
@@EOTA564 You're not wrong about magic items being OP back then, but that's an issue that has been more than solved in the years since. The core gameplay of 4/5th is excellent.
Love these interviews. Thanks. It's great to hear the thoughts of the minds that helped shape me.
It's a shame about warhammer and what they did to it with AoS. Still feels like a slap in the face to everybody that helped build games-workshop into what it is. And especially a disrespect to all the years of work people like Rick into it.
Its crazy Rick didn't know AoS was being worked on.. wasn't he creative director at the time? Seems like a huge thing to keep behind closed doors.
There's no way Rick Priestley could have not have known AoS was coming UNLESS it really was a last minute decision - which it probably was. It explains a lot.
He said that AOS came soon after he left in 2010, but in fact it was 5 years later. So I guess it’s entirely possible that they hadn’t started work on it yet.
Warhammer Historical was a great initiative. The game played well, the supplements were fantastic. Lost its way with 2.0 and its bland lists.
3rd didn't really work? I thought it was absolutely the best version.
I was fourteen when my friends and me got into Warhammer Fantasy 3rd edition. We played maybe three games of it before 4th came out. Each (small ) game would take us ten hours (not helped by the fact that we were young and english wasn`t our first language) and I don`t think we ever played a proper game where we got all the rules right. Fourth edition sped up things tremendously.
Whether 3rd edition was good or not is probably completely up to your personal tastes. It simulated a lot of stuff very granularly and had tons of extremely specific special rules for very special situations (there`s a couple of paragraphs and drawings to show you how a chariot crew can jump from their chariot, fight a round of combat and then got back up), but whehter or not these added anything to the game in terms of fun is highly debatable.
@@biseinerheult78 that's exactly why I liked it. Very technical and and the characters could be very detailed. I was a bit older when it came out and at 14 I'd have been playing second edition, which was much more straight forward.
I think the detail really played to my role playing advanced ad&d side. :)
It's nice to see the issues with expensives macs without enough memory have all been solved now.....
Interesting to see that even "back then" GW was about making money as quickly as possible to finance debt. Yet today everyone acts like they all have ownership of Warhammer and GW as a money making entity that has to protect it's IP is evil.
Yeah because keeping a rein on the purse strings is definitely the same as hollowing out the entire IP in order to milk their uncritical consoomer-simp-fanbase dry of every last cent they can get their grubby mits on.
Just face it, 40k is an animated corpse that's paraded around and whored out to the highest bidder. Fantasy is mercifully dead now, but about to be reanimated and forced to dance to the same tune. Current GW can only corrupt and ruin what they've inherited.
It was always a business but the model has change over the years, early on it a games company selling every thing then it was a model company and later its an IP company.
When Alessio Cavatore made his first Skaven Armybook (2002) for 6th edition, my journey with WFB sadly ended, and did for my whole gaming club. Two players had Skavens, and got some of the new units, and they power creep was so crazy, that the whole WFB community I knew off, within a few weeks collapsed, within a few months alot of people had sold there miniatures, some ventured over to W40k, some gave up on warhammer, most people could see the writing on the wall, and it was immense Power Creep, (some would argue the creep had already started several books back). Good job Alessio!
First comment!! Wooo!!
Oh yeh. 6th edition. The edition where empoyees signed their warhammer rulesbooks stating they'd never again let the warhammer universe fall to the way side.
Great piece of ironic fiction that was.
would love to hear more of his thoughts on Age of Sigmar
'Promo sm' 💥
6th edition WHFB is still probably the best version. Such a shame that GW changed for the worst and lost all its great designers; the current people there are jokes.
A three-week gap between Part 1 and Part 2 is too long and leads to a loss of audience engagement and narrative continuity. But most importantly, it greatly pisses me off.
Sorry you felt the need to comment this, but remember this is just a hobby project for me that I do in my spare time.
@@Filmdegminiatures I'm sorry, but I feel the need to express my frustration about you splitting videos into segments, which seems driven by a desire to maximize ad revenue. Had this been merely a hobby project, I doubt there would be such an overt focus on the monetization aspect. These interviews are great but this lessens the viewer's experience. "Watch this interview and come back in a few weeks to watch the rest".
Honestly, the monetization is simply to help cover petrol fees as each time I borrow the camera equipment its a 6 hour round trip, so its just a way to recoup that expense. I'm certainly not making any kind of profit. Splitting the fantasy video into 2 seemed natural just given the length of the video, and obviously these videos are split into themes already. Perhaps the way I produce these videos doesn't work for you - thats fine - feel free to watch other videos instead. @@Komandie
I think its sad that you've been so quick to assume that I do this for the money, anyone who knows me and my passion for the hobby knows that this is and always has been a hobby project. Part of the reason the videos take a long time to come out is they are a labour of love for me, and I edit them in the precious spare time I have. These videos are as much for me as they are for everyone else.
@@Filmdegminiatures Take as much time as you need on editing and uploading! I'm really enjoying them and breaking them up means I have something to look forward to next time! Hope you get the chance to talk Mordheim, MESBG and of course, Rogue Trader, at some point...