Opposing Views on the Role of Government and the Essence of Money (w/Michael Green & Peter Schiff)
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Mike Green, portfolio manager and chief strategist at Simplify Asset Management, and Peter Schiff, chief economist and global strategist of Euro Pacific Capital, sit down with Real Vision's king of neutrality, Ash Bennington, for a debate on the merits of MMT vs Austrian Economics, other questions around what the defining characteristics of good money actually are, and whether we will finally see the inflation that many have been calling for. Schiff and Green will also discuss their outlooks for various asset classes given their differing views on inflation, monetary policy, and the role of government. Filmed on April 22, 2021
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Opposing Views on the Role of Government and the Essence of Money (w/Michael Green & Peter Schiff)
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Peter Schiff is brilliant. He has a much deeper understanding of the role of government and the essence of money. Thank you for this debate.
Is he? He got bitcoin completely wrong
@@didafm He's almost always wrong because his view of the world is way too simplistic. That appeals to people with a limited understanding of economics because he makes it sound like the solutions are easy and everyone else is delusional. He's more of a preacher than an intellectual.
@@didafm everyone has trades they missed. It's much easier to miss out than to be a bagholder. Trade what you understand.
@@arrogantprickly The only problem of Peter Schiff is that very often he has to confront opponents, who totally do not understand economics, however he always struggles with them in a very diplomatic manner always ending discussions in a simple, transparent and constructive way, leaving his adversaries speechless for which he is respected for.
If you're trolling, congratulations...that's funny. Go back and watch the predictions from his interviews 3, 4, 5, 10 years ago. Schiff is dead wrong about everything at a clip that is alarming and would be impossible to duplicate even if you tried.
Whenever peter Schiff comes to a podcast or video, it becomes The peter Schiff show.
@Chi "Whenever [P]eter Schiff -will- come [comes] to a podcast..." That cannot be future tense!
That's literally that only one criticism I have about him
They need to have a mute button and signal for him to realize he's been muted
sadly true. although the other guest feels alot better educated and more level headed.
@@PenguinWhispererThe lol "level headed" because he says what everyone else spews .... he is a robot!
Peter won the debate. Moderator is a 10. Green is such a gentleman with Peter endlessly interrupting him and not being put off and further always allowing Peter to finish his sentences.
Peter is a classic Bostonian.
I like Mike, but his performance here was horrible. Schiff is a pretty dumb guy. Mike is quite brilliant. Not sure how he lost this debate, But i agree, he did.
@@uxpjsxu I don't find Schiff to be dumb at all. He is spot on with a lot of what he says and he is well grounded in fundamentals.
J Bezanson...true story👍
No. Yapping constantly like a small dog is not winning.
I commend the patience Mike has. He keeps it together even when Peter interrupts (That’s just Peter). I tend to agree with Peter’s view on things. Really enjoyed this conversation Thank you for organizing this
So true :)
mike is an authoritarian apologist mental patient... and dumb as a rock ontop of it.
this is a guy who said libertarians would be hypocritical if they wanted the fed to lower the rates, it would go against their values.
that is, if the fed randomly increased the int rate to 50% one day, it would be hypocritical for us to think they should move it back down...
you cant make this guy up
I appreciate Peter's emphasis on the real definition of inflation...when there is excess capacity and the government prints more, prices may not rise but it's still a net loss because it's preventing prices from falling. Peter definitely came out on top...
@@maaa_aaate7707 the fed will put the smaller commericial banks out of business with the fed coin. Peter knows all this did you just learn about fractional reserve lending 2 youtube videos ago?
@@mikebrown2867 wellll... I agree, but it a little bit more complicated. Your basic econ course assumes that all money is out in circulation, like actually changing hands physically. In reality, it's mostly in banks, and banks do some things that distort that ideal scenario. Giving out loans for big ticket things like property or business expansion accelerates velocity and expands money supply ; buying government bonds as part of a de-risking obligation reduces money supply. The availability of credit for expensive purchases causes expensive things to increase in price faster than the basic consumer stuff. So if monetary policy eases and banks are making more loans cheaper, ie MS increased, then the rich get richer without doing anything because they own the most expensive things. Ah, edit cuz now I can see - the point I originally wanted to make was that there may be some wiggle room to inflate money without inflating prices because banks trade a chunk of excess cash for bonds. There may be further wiggle room because rich people can't (or won't) consume all of the value accrued to their assets via inflation. Yes, it's an unfair system.
@Ryan z i suggest you read richard werners paper “can banks individually create money out of nothing?” . you will then learn fractional reserve banking never was an actual banking practice. one youtube video ago.
Yes, exactly, Green failed to understand this. Our prices would be falling by about 10-15% per year if we weren't printing. This has masked some of the effects of this inflation, and left everyone scratching their heads as to why wealth inequality is so extreme.
Nobody wants to pay more than they have to whether they have more money or not. Supply chain constraint has everything to do with a naturally formed inflation. Every other inflation is artificially formed for the benefit of someone or entity.
what I like most about Peter is his way of explaining things, he uses simple English, which for me as a non native speaker is really helpful, none of those fancy terms they teach at universities, it's much easier to understand complex concepts when they're explained using everyday language. I listen to his every podcast and it's always great enjoyment.
This is the core problem. Economics is nowhere near as difficult as economists like to portray it. They deliberately obfuscate, are sometimes contradictory, won't be drawn on anything in case they are proven wrong and most of the assumptions they make are questionable at best or politically motivated at worst.
Exactly. I’m German and I love to listen to Peter too. Helps me with my economic understanding and my own investment strategy.
Funny ...
Simplistic view and answer about complexe subject is populism not truth .
How can people think by removing nuances it lead to a more precise truth ? It is amazing.
@@sivi9741 first you need to understand the basics, and it's true for any subject not just economics.. then you can get a more nuanced perspective on the way the US economy currently works elsewhere. Peter's podcast is a great way to get you started.. especially his book "How an Economy Grows and Why it Crashes".
@@sivi9741 If you can't explain it simply, you don't know it well enough.
Mike is one of my favorite financial minds. I thought he would outclass Peter but that did not happen today. Peter was brilliant & made Mike sound scattered.
I wish Peter allowed Mike to talk more about his prescriptions. Mike rarely gets asked about this.
@32 Mike’s point about the “crash scenario” affording people like him and Peter to benefit from the chaos completely ignores how the current environment is enriching the same (or some constituency of) people now. Peter’s rebuttal to this is brilliant. Peter really understands the tertiary effects of policies which are hard to comprehend for most.
Agreed. Mike was so busy dismantling Peter’s flawed arguments, he never had time to lay out his own perspective.
This is what an intellectual debate sounds like. Sans name-calling, sans attacks on credibility, which is what debates on MSM consist solely of.
I applaud all 3 in this debate
Respect for whoever decided to debate Peter. He makes too much sense and is not a government shill.
I agree: there is no point debating with someone who is stuck in his own self-centered vision.
Bitcoin maximalists and Gold bugs have the same crony attitude: they want everyone to adopt a monetary standard based on the bags they hold.
This is a great comment. It takes a lot of guts to take on Peter, as he has a broadcasting background and tends to dominate the conversation, but absolutely respect to Michael. He rolled his eyes a few times but I'm sure even he would be surprised at the amount of broad consensus. The major division between them in my view is Michael sounds and acts like a highly intelligent but elitist academic, whereas Peter sounds and acts like a school-of-hard-knocks businessman.
@@mikebrown2867 you call $2000 in 5000 YEARS successful?
@@kwamebushman606 I'd call outperforming S&P over last 20 years successful especially since it's a store of value, not an investment.
I don't respect this man. I tried. He thinks people came to the US because there's land. If that were true why is 3/4 of Canada empty (even the moderate temp parts). He also believes the smallpox myth.
I learned from this debate more than from a dozen Peter Schiff solo podcasts. Moderator is asking the right questions and Mike gives perfect inside of traditional Keynesian and current MMT thinking. Peter delivers the knowledge of Austrian Economics in his own brilliant way.
Yeah i suspect Peter prefers structured forums like this over ranting alone in the wilderness… but the MSM and large sections of the alt-media are to intimidated to have him on.
Best educational debate with Peter
I thought this was awesome.
Only in debates and discussions will the ideas and concepts get pushed to the limit. If you rant in your own echo chamber, you're never challenged
I feel like Peter was selling Laissez-Faire economics which is lacking any history context against it. Great depression is all the Fed, they caused dust bowl and farming/food in the country being decimated too 🤷♂️🤣
Mike was the coolest debater, respect for debating Peter!
Peter didn't even charge Mike a fee for the education.
Bingo! Mike was dead wrong here. Government should concern themsves with governing through policy that benefits the people, not manipulation of the money supply.
He still should have asked him why nobody wanted to live in the Soviet Union if he was right about people coming to the US because of it's higher land per capita ratio. The USSR's was most definitely higher and still nobody wanted to live there. Singapore and Hong Kong only have limited natural resources and land available but are still more prosperous than Venezuela which is a way bigger country and sits on the biggest oil reserves in the world. Peter's absolutely right, the amount of freedom people enjoy is what sets a country on the road to prosperity or on the road to misery.
@@Getloose360 That's how we got into this mess to begin with. Government makes it's own policy.
😅😅
Mike won the debate by getting a free lesson from peter
100%
LOL
:D
😆 ohhh my
Best comment of the night
This was more of an interview of Peter than a debate. As it should be. Respect to Mike for letting Peter talk and not making it a competition.
Mike is on the government pay roll
He couldn’t compete if he tried. Peter has facts
Totally disagree. Mike is definitely the better intellect, and it shows.
@@jefff7287 seriously, Peter gave a whole lot of speculation where Mike provided fact.
@@patrickjreid Like what?
A debate turned into an educational class. Peter rocks.
I'm an Austrian so I was cheering Peter all the way, but I must say I was so impressed by Michael's patience in this conversation. His word count was about 1/3 of Peter's (by dint of Peter stealing the conversation away). A most formidable and considered opponent.
hes an authoritarian apologist mental patient... and dumb as a rock ontop of it.
this is a guy who said libertarians would be hypocritical if they wanted the fed to lower the rates, it would go against their values.
that is, if the fed randomly increased the int rate to 50% one day, it would be hypocritical for us to think they should move it back down...
you cant make this guy up
I love that Peter was less Peter then usual, kept his tone down and managed to formulate an argument for a change. Perhaps he had simpler points to make but he did help me understand his position better.
His 3 first joe rogan interview might satisfy you
I legitimetly though RV shadow banned Peter Schiff, im so glad he is on here. - needs to be interviewed by Raoul.
That I would love to see! Two great minds with different view points (also many similar viewpoints).
Raoul is a crypto guy, so the back and forth between gold vs crypto would be enlightening.
@@henrytep8884 and amusing.
Jeff snider and Peter schiff or jeff snider and Mike green would be fantastic
Do you have many illegitimate thoughts?
I love mike but man did he get blown out of the water. Peter brought the heat. Brillant interview
Are there actually interviews where Mike says something valuable?
I only watched this debate and the debate with Pompliano, and hardly anything he said in these two made any sense to me...
Just because you won't stop talking doesn't mean you win the argument. I will be following Mike Green from here.
Maybe I'm slightly biased. But I never see anyone win a debate with Peter. Even in just a discussion form, he is the bright spot. Such sound logic that is nearly impossible to refute. I doubt very few people walk away after a debate with Peter and don't take something from it or question their entire world view. The few that do are just hard-headed. Schiff 2024.
its probably confirmation bias - he's repeating the echo chamber a lot of anti-fed anti-government people fall into
I agree he’s a great debater but I’m not sure he won the actual intellectual debate (ie the logic of their arguments) but he was more persuasive
Because he uses common sense.
RV - please get Peter Schiff as often as you can.
They run out of opponents :-D
Can we have these two giants on again, one year later to review their predictions? Great debate
Peter wins every argument based on the merits but often loses when it comes to making money
Because we don't use money. We use currencies...
Peter isn't poor though, far from it.
Not in the long run.
Words of Wisdom by Peter Schiff, great interview
How Peter explains macro economics ,is plain and simple where any sane man can understand .
Have you ever noticed this is common among some of the smartest people? For example take Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Ray Dalio, Warren Buffet and many more.
How to make money in investing?
A: Sort a sound business that has resistance to any competition or price fluctuations, take a tight position and watch your wealth getting compounded over a period of time.
Why do we need electric cars?
A: Natural resources are subject to limitations so we need better alternatives.
All of them seems to have a tight grapse in fundamentals. They are more easy to understand.
Where on the other side, i find those who don't have any stickiness in fundamentals are harder to understand. They just randomly spilt out a bunch of unrelated data that doesn't even connect to anything at the end. Distracted by the randomness of information which doesn't co-relate to anything more often, they are more prone to be on the wrong side.
I agree with everything except his stance on Bitcoin
Because it’s not supposed to be complicated. Yet government manage to make it more complicated and less manageable.
Peter is a freaking genius, period. When his ship finally docks, all other will be under water.
Every broken clock is right twice a day.
The fact is everyone of peters clients has lost money and opportunity.
Peter has been wrong for 11 years
@@rev.jimjonesandthekool-aid4488 the only thing he's wrong on is gold and timing. He's 100% right on how and why.
@@rev.jimjonesandthekool-aid4488 where did you see they lose money? According to the last 2 years the assets he has invested their clients are doing better than meme and crypto investing morons. Were you just lying like a child out of hate?
his fund has been underperforming for 10 years. Smart people learn to adapt and learn, not be stubborn to change
@@JM-kv2kn nonsense.
Congratulations to Real Vision and the participants for this great debate.
Peter SMOKED him! Awesome job hosting this debate, RV!
were we listening to the same podcast
@@PenguinWhispererThe ... and this demonstrates again economics is almost completely subjective.
I can't believe I just heard someone who manages money say that it's a coincidence that invention (modern sanitation) comes about when people are the most free to spend their money how they choose.
@@PenguinWhispererThe Yes. Michael Green got proven wrong again and again and each time he said "that's historically inaccurate". Um, no. Peter was historically accurate. He misunderstands BTC, but what he said was correct.
@@onloveandsublimation4912 lol he didn't even let him talk.
Mike was constantly looking for something to disagree with rather than accepting the facts. He was about trying to win and prove Peter wrong while Peter was speaking literal facts for the well being of the country.
Peter's indestructible logic... His father gave him a solid baseline and he was a great student
Every person who has followed peters program for the last 10 urs has lost money.
Peters clients missed one of the greatest market bullruns.
Convince me im wrong.
@@rev.jimjonesandthekool-aid4488 Have you looked at the "priced in gold" charts? Has there really been a bullrun or has it been a "melt up"? Stop thinking in terms of dollars and you will start to see it....maybe...
@@pulsarlights2825 nonetheless. I made > million $ off btc and silver is 3 dollars more than i bought that garbage in 2008.
Peter has been wrongly advising his clients for over a decade.
You'd be better off listening to Bo Polney( who is also never right)meanwhile Peter's scro tal tounge polishing continues...
@@rev.jimjonesandthekool-aid4488 Bitcoin is a risk asset, silver is a flight to safety. apples and oranges. It makes more sense to compare btc to the S&P then gold or silver.....People have made millions and people have lost millions in btc, it is a risk asset, precious metals are not risk assets...
I agree with what you're saying but I think we can still argue about what you said.
I have a final tomorrow with questions about Hoover and FDR's responses to the great depression, thanks peter for making procrastination pay off
Awesome debate guys. The moderator was impressive, Peter was long winded as we all expected (and enjoyed), and this is great content I’m sure to watching over again. Cheers.
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Peter makes so much sense and no one listens. Just sad.
I stopped listening to Peter’s rambles for a while, but tuned in because of the participants. Peter rocked it on almost every level.
Doesn’t stop him though....
I think he does not have complete knowledge. He was unsure about why the dollar spiked after GFC 2008.
It's being sad, just insane. But majority of government officials are evil and just simply want total control over our lives. Cast system, royalty etc etc
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Very impressive how Mike Green is able to keep his composure here while Schiff relentlessly interrupts him. I like Schiff a lot but he is going to run out of people willing to talk to him. It is so awesome to be able to listen to these people and hit pause and go look something up when they reference something I am not familiar with. What a time to learn. Thanks for making this content.
Thanks for a great panel. One of the best moderators I have experienced - he was very well balanced and gave both sides respect and time needed to state their cases. I am a Austrian Schiffy but enjoyed hearing both sides.
Peter and Michael just eloquently confirmed the end of the empire. There is no solution at this point.
Empires aka cancer, in an organism context, the group of cells that takes resources without giving anything back it's called cancer.
Sure, but Peter articulates the fact amd the aura of the times to put it in a clearer sense. Michael seems to be disagreeing on the strength that he is the other person in the debate instead of admitting Peter is right
The solution is Bitcoin my friend
@@cgroff1628 I believe the solution is some kind of crypto, but I'm not sure of bitcoin
@@destruction1928 it's tough being wrong for ten years. That was my mistake. I hope you don't repeat it.
Peter Schiff is an incredible economist. His book Crash Proof is a must read.
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 That´s true.
He is just incredible at public speaking
His opinions about Bitcoin and blockchain technology is what make this guy a joke.
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 I agree, pretty bad at market movements, but on point for all things macro. Is your duty and your own DD to position yourself accordingly.
@@adamscheffler I have bitcoin myself, but his reason to dislike bitcoin is pretty accurate/well explained tho.
Having mostly only heard Peter's thoughts on crypto, where I'm mostly opposed to his views. I'm surprised to find that I agree with quite a majority of Peter Schiff's stances on government policies. Great debate!
If you can teach a subject than you really know it! And the way Peter Schiff explains things so simply is amazing! He really really knows his stuff, smart man.
This is pretty close to an ideal moderator
Yes, he was a perfect moderator. Best I've ever seen.
was thinking the same thing. he seems like he tried his best to set aside any biases and challenges both guests
100% agree. He let them speak, and he asked great questions. Seemed completely unbiased as well
Pretty close.
Kept the conversation moderate.
He’s great at facilitating conversations and interviews on Real Vision
Peter is a wealth of knowledge and we all benefit greatly. This is coming from a bitcoin guy too. And Mike green is hyped quite a bit but he got destroyed by Nic Carter, and he is getting destroyed here.
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Wow.. Peter has gotten better at debating. He really spanked this guy. He clearly explained his points.
Peter Shiff!! Right on!
Schooled that young Keynsian!!
A pleasure to watch!💪🏼👏🏻👌🏼
The quality of this debate and professionalism of all participants is running circles around mainstream media ....
Shiff is a beast +1
Hey Mike! You got to admit Peter’s predictions has been very reliable since the pandemic.
Thank you Realvision for inviting Peter Schiff. Now, please arrange a debate between Peter and Michael Saylor.
Another one bites the dust! Knockout blow came with Bernie Madoff dialog. Well done, Peter!
I was laughing out loud at that line.
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this says enough. people cheering like this is boxing match. louder doesn't mean better.
Same, Shane. I was quietly listening through the debate until that line. And then, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 🤣🤣🤣
Yep another victim to add to the Peter Schiff was right 2.0 video.
Stoked you got Peter on! Cant wait to get into this debate. Thank you Real Vision!
Thanks for watching today's video
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Michael Green is pure class. Peter Schiff was pretty abrasive but that's typically his style. Overall I think they both represented their theories very well. Ash did an amazing job of moderating! I look forward to the next conversation.
Wow! Just finished listening to this debate for a 3 rd time. I always hear something new because this podcast debate has so much information. All 3 gentlemen did an excellent job! Michael, Peter and the moderator! Thank you guys for presenting the data from your side, in an respectful and very informative way. It real helped me make up my mind on which way I am going lean in investigating my money going forward.
Not going to lie, I didn't expect to agree as much as I am with Schiff. Both made great points at times, but Schiff really held his own I thought
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Perfect platform for Peter to demonstrate his knowledge, thank you Mike for politely provoking him.
mike is an authoritarian apologist mental patient... and dumb as a rock ontop of it.
this is a guy who said libertarians would be hypocritical if they wanted the fed to lower the rates, it would go against their values.
that is, if the fed randomly increased the int rate to 50% one day, it would be hypocritical for us to think they should move it back down...
you cant make this guy up
Still one of the most memorable debates on CZcams.
Best interview I‘ve heard in a while!
The interviewer was also great!
the amount of contemporary macroeconomic issues and crypto and gold related content in youtube has just been exploding literally in the past few months. Thanks for this, really appreciate this for educating us laymen on what's going on.
This was a great conversation. Both guests were extremely informative. Peter was on game in this one. Very impressive.
A Gentleman that he is, Mike Green brought a Dueling pistol as per the rules, while the Street fighter that he is, Peter came with an AK-47....
I'm no economist but I do know all the basics and I do have to say Peter really did a great job presenting his historical knowledge. Green did a brilliant attempt but was just overshadowed. Think Green started on a bad foot and should have presented his view rather than constantly try to disagree and find faults in Peters argument. Think this is what Peter is so good at because he doesnt tell you explicitly when he is disagreeing but you know he is and he quickly brings it to his point. Definitely a better orator
This is why Peter Peter Schiff is not allowed on television anymore and usually only appears once on someone's podcast . He wins the debate and makes fools of his opposition.
Peter Schiff did not make a fool of Mike
My mans said there's no difference between real and nominal interest rates. Just like....wut???
Talking over other people doesn't make anybody right. That's not how I define winning a debate.
my eastern european ancestors were not looking for land. they abandoned their land to gain freedom.
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So did mine
My Grandparents were born 1890, 1880s and i knew them, its about FREEDOM
I’m in the UK, but if I were American I’d definitely vote for Peter Schiff. The whole world needs people like him to lead world governments!
Been waiting for a Raoul and Peter episode. Can you guys make that happen?
Raoul is a grifter... an idiot. He's too busy talking about the metaverse and exponential age and whatever other meaningless platitudes ... the guy is 100% all in on crypto at the peak of the bubble lol Guy's a FOOL
@@libertyovertyranny3991 I’m sure Raoul will be out of bitcoin when his dear supporters are neck deep in it.
All I can says it was brilliant and a fantastic moderator!
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Facts
There are two reasons Mike appeared to lose this debate: first, there is a huge mismatch between his and Peter’s debating style. Peter speaks for a long time, and is always ready and willing to interrupt. Mike makes his point once, refuses to interrupt, and immediately acquiesces when he’s interrupted.
Second, the topics being discussed are complex and nuanced. Mike’s views, whether right or wrong, reflect that reality. As such, it’s difficult to boil his views down to a quick “takeaway”. Peter’s views, on the other hand, are simple, (perhaps simplistic), and are therefore able to be boiled down to a few takeaways. Peter wins this debate for the same reason that ideologues tend to win debates.
Additionally, Peter states everything with one hundred percent confidence, even going so far as to say that he “knows” what will happen in the future. This makes him sound more convincing. Mike acknowledges that it’s impossible to be sure of the future.
Peter is always spot on. His economic ideas are grounded in reality which proves him right every time. Green tries to convince listeners with confusion. Economics isn’t super complicated and much respect to Peter for all his insight.
In most parts I agree with Peter, but please let him finish his sentence man😂
peter will not listen to nonsense. i dont blame him.
@@jamesj7238 you still have to let other people say what they want to say, even if you find it nonsense...
I felt the same
Yeah but you know where Mike was going from a mile away! We can all finish his sentences for him. Basically a stand in for the current order; no innovative thought at all. Peter is correct that even just getting back to basics is an innovation at this point.
People dont realize how brilliant Peter is. They don't like to hear when they are positioned wrong and he doesn't hold back.
Thanks for your feedback....) for more guidance =
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He may or many not even be that bright. He just has a fundamental understanding of a subject where most people try and explain away fundamental truths because of how inconvenient they are.
@@TheScamr yup, Austrian economics is so simple , if only people took time to learn about it
@@plastifiedmetal5682Austrian economics are incorrect. They have an incorrect theory of money and credit. On top of that, Peter’s economic theories have not translated into more money for his clients.
@@cyberft 5000 years of history proves him right.
This debate really makes me miss the Peter Schiff Show! He had so many great debates on his radio show
He has a podcast
@@donjohnson6741 I know but he doesn't have guest on his podcast like he used to on his radio show
I think Peter is right, its inflation this time. Peter's fundamentals are spot on, I am not a capatalist but all his points on free markets are spot on, let the market be free and it will decide prices.
Love peter Schiff. Great guest.
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Peter just destroyed Mike. Free market !!
Totally 💯
Lol did we watch the same debate. Let me guess you actually think QE = literal money printing... -_- oh dear
This debate was the best informed financial discussion I have heard. Thank you! I could listen all day long.
I like both Peter and Michael, very informative . I' m a huge Mike Green fan but I gotta say Peter's argument resonated more with me this time round.
of course, hes a marxist, authoritarian apologist
Mike has a lot of patience...
I actually think Mike Green is great despite this debate. Peter definitely came out on top but don't sleep on Mike either!
Agree and full marks for debating him. For two diametrically opposed men, they sure agreed on a lot of stuff, even if their interpretations of the historical record were vastly different. This is why 'facts' appear to be inviolate but are still partially subjective as any recounting of detail is subject to the interpretation of whoever's reporting it.
When you add your own subjective analysis of initial conditions and actions contributing to the supposed 'fact' you have to conclude the entire discipline of economics is close to useless for predicting just about anything.
Peter is probably the only person in the US who characterizes the Progressive Era as a great time for the middle class economically.
No one from RV probably sees this but want to give Ash Bennington some well deserved kudos here for running a fun debate. He kept things moving, prompted great questions when each side became rooted in their viewpoints and he threw in some moments of playing devil's advocate when warranted. Not easy given the strong personalities that were squared off.
As smart as Mike sounds, I’m still waiting for an intelligent description of what’s happening and what should be done.
If Peter would shut up for 10 seconds, maybe you would have your answer.
Where did he fail to give such a description, specifically?
@@TheRepublicOfUngeria I honestly think Peter pay bots.
He doesn't sound intelligent to me. He sounds like he just talks in circles, I can't actually piece together what he's trying to say at all.
Jeff snider is the person you want to tune into.
Lol, I don’t think Mike Green is nearly as smart as he thinks he is ... and Peter interrupts far too often.
Lol 2 golden truths
agree, mike might know lots of random facts, doesn't mean he knows how to interpret them haha
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And the real truth is economics is nowhere near as difficult as economists like to portray it. It's almost entirely subjective and unscientific.
Even this debate clearly demonstrates the fundamental tenets of economic theory are contingent upon one's reading of history which depends upon the politics of whoever is telling the story. In universities, these days that's almost entirely neo-Keynesian.
Throughout all recorded economics history we have only a very few data points in a wildly chaotic system and we don't have thousands of economies to run controlled, double-bind experiments. Simplistic econometric models are next to useless, especially in cases when we really need them. They may have some predictive ability at steady state but right now we're about as far from steady state as you can possibly get.
@@AndyGraceMedia Couldn’t agree more. It’s more an ever evolving organism than anything else. However, I do personally agree with Peter that, simplicity, more currency without the equivalent production of goods and services is probably a bad thing for the citizenry of any given system. Reserve stays does help with the demand of said currency, but in the long run, that never lasts. Smartest and best thing to do in the end is be healthy and surrounded by love. Best economics.
It seems like Peter has really perfected his ideas and how to voice them.
Once I stared skipping Shiff’s ideological circular thinking this was a worthwhile discussion to hear. Thanks!
For some reason i could listen to these discussions all day!
its Goldman Pete a symbol of what the USSA USED to be...& what a few of us wish it still was...bit like chocolate for the obese its comfort food for our souls in such a perverted insane dystopia
@@theprophylacticprotectagai2069 well said
Woah, Peter is absolutely destroying Mike Green.
Sycophant
I only made it 13 minutes in and this Mike guy has said so many strange things that I would say he destroyed himself. I can't believe he manages money.
@@adidabax6809 Exactly. He was saying strange things with such a smirk I thought that he was kidding. Sadly not.
In the end listening Micheal Green analysis is right and better way.he is very intelligent person.after a listen whole debate.Thank you.
Very engaging & enjoyable debate with numerous and compelling views & arguments from both sides. Thanks guys.
These 2 x gentlemen embody the difference between those who believe a free market can not work and those who do
“Free Markets” is just free people engaging in trade / commerce. It’s about freedom not “markets”.
I don't think that is an open question anymore. Free markets don't work. they lead to massive imbalances in society and nature until the system implodes.
@@moebel303 Why don't you just leave out "markets" and say Freedom doesn't work? Then, everyone would know exactly where you're coming from.
I can tell that neither of these guys have actually read Von Mises' "The Theory of Money & Credit." If they had, they would recognize that credit money, currency and basis or "hard" money have three different use cases and can be three different forms or denominations of money. By minting gold coinage, gold can be both a basis money and a currency, but gold can never be debt money (aka credit money) that expands and contracts in response to the demand for credit to fund growth.
Excellent point. I wish more people who understand this would engage with the investment and finance community in these talks. But I suppose they don't have anything to sell apart from their knowledge...
Yep
@@mrenovatio3739 How could anyone “engage”with Peter he is too bombastic and does just overpowers the other person and commentator.
It’s one reason we like him . But he doesn’t see any other view point.
All credit is, is a contract. Gold is used to settle the contract.
This is a great point. I haven't read that book either, but it's going on the list now. Does it say anything about hard money being a restraint on government spending? Or the effects of a government with infinite credit and seemingly at war with hard money?
1:02:35 “If the Fed wasn’t buying up mortgages and treasuries, where would interest rates be right now?” - “Probably negative.” Lol.
Yeah that was bad. Lol
Indeed
Really!
Kudos!!! Loved hearing from both of them and their views. Appreciate these guys disagreeing on many issues, but being professional and respectful to each other so we can hear both sides at the same time like this is awesome !!!!!
I am from Mexico and I’ve met a lot of other immigrants and i can confirm A lot do come here to work and make a better life, but a lot come for the benefits.
silver is cheap in mexico im taking mine back with interest
What kind of benefitS?
@@Userkzb20253 get money to have kids , free schools, mortgages, food stamps, etc.
2 great guests having an awesome conversation. The only thing that would make it better is if Peter would stop interrupting Mike. I do think Peter is correct about what the role of government should be. I would like to hear more about what Mike has to say though.
I loved this debate. Thanks for hosting it
I Love Peter Schiff. Mr. Schiff has made me a Wealthy Man (with the knowledge he freely gave me through his Podcasts over the years).
You can tell Mike learned whatever he learned in university, and then didn't move an inch since.
He’s a contrarian by nature, what you mean is you don’t like that he has a different opinion to you.
....and Peter doesn't move his position either, especially on the concept that crypto is a better stored value than gold, which it is objectively.
@@kurtjohnston6620 Dang dude, Mike is no way on planet Earth a contrarian. Mike is 100% main stream which in no way equates to contrarian.
Peter is at his best. I normally don’t agree a lot with him but he made sense!
@@henrytep8884 lol HOW? There's infinite crypto, limited gold
Thumbs up for Peter!!
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Brilliant discussion. Peter is always a step more intelligent than other really smart people
This is fascinating. It’s not a disagreement of facts or theory between Mike and Peter. Instead, it’s a difference of time horizon. Peter will be correct over a long enough time horizon. Mike makes money because he’s exquisite at figuring out how the human element will play out in the short to medium term.