Ultimate Winter Greenhouse for -40'
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- How to build a winter greenhouse for -40' climates that can grow in cold weather 4 seasons year round things like tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, strawberries etc. Things like insulation, C02, heating methods and greenhouse types like passive solar greenhouses and Chinese greenhouses are discussed in this video.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
03:02 Why Grow in Winter
05:08 Greenhouse Insulation
08:42 Chinese Greenhouse
10:47 Adding Heat
12:39 LED Lights
13:50 Adding CO2
Buy Mars Hydro LED grow light amzn.to/3CPuyfz
Buy insulated blanket amzn.to/37I7KA7
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Do you need a -40' greenhouse where you live?
I live in mountains of CA. The big trouble here is summer heat and winter cold. We also have two species of gopher. What would you suggest besides moving?
In germany its usually not extreme cold but the winter is realy long .
North Central Idaho needs a -10-20' greenhouse at or above 3000'. The snow load is the problem.
Keep tryin to leave nice comments and I come back they're all deleted 🤣 wow. Anyway yeah, thanks for this great video and all of the info. I was able to cop an entire thermal solar system with 4 panels. 50gal indirect tank (battery) even a high end taco stainless steel pump ALL from craigslist. It's the most efficient system available. 100k BTU for 220 watts.
Keep tryin to leave nice comments and I come back they're all deleted 🤣 wow. Anyway yeah, thanks for this great video and all of the info. I was able to cop an entire thermal solar system with 4 panels. 50gal indirect tank (battery) even a high end taco stainless steel pump ALL from craigslist. It's the most efficient system available. 100k BTU for 220 watts.
Mollison, one of the founders of permaculture, advocated a vertical sheet of insulation around the footing going down 1 to 2 meters so the whole volume under the house or green house is part of the thermal mass. Several have tried it and it works well.
Yep
please consider talking more about the greenhouse blankets; what they are made of, how they attach to greenhouse, how they open and close and where to get them.
Ok
Was just looking for that info lol. I have of course used frost covers (like Agfabric 1.2oz) but these are obviously something different. Also, are they on an automated system to roll out and retract?
100% i Have searched and found nothing. seems like home made straw and ground cover blankets??? please give links or full video on automated roll ups as the time investment each day in winter would be huge manually. please and thks from double poly inflated 14 x 26 earth battery in Kelowna @@SimpleTek
I remember while studying a passive solar heated home building in the 1970’s, this video follows precisely the same guidelines we were using in designing an all weather home. Thanks much for bringing us into a better way to feed our hungry families. Another new subscriber to your channel. 👍🤓
Very cool!
Those of us who studied this issue 50 years ago see little new in this piece. I hope these ideas produce fruit (pun) this time around. I having been off grid solar for 12 years following ideas I learned 50 years ago.
Thanks for the video. Although it wasn't anything I didn't know, it was refreshing to have you lay it all out. I also didn't know we were both in the same area. Small world! I'm building a greenhouse this fall, still a lot of planning to do!
Glad you enjoyed it! Where are you located? I'm at Oak Point off highway 6 north of Wpg
@@SimpleTek I am in Rosser.
There is also a way to save heat even without placing heat batteries under the ground. on the perimeter of the greenhouse place a well-insulated wall like for a basement, as deep as possible. 4-8 feet, just to make sure it is going to be deeper than the freezing line. The soil will warm during the summer and will not cool down fast, since it is insulated from the freezing soil outside. In winter it will serve as a heating passive mass combined with other mass on the wall
Active vs passive
If I ever get to have a greenhouse, I want to do this, especially if I can do it with native stone. Maybe I'm over cautious (probably) but I prefer not to have concrete/cement by food.
same thought here. In Germany the earth stays at around 8°C in 2 meters of depth for the whole winter, so it is completely sufficient to dig a trench around the greenhouse and insulate that well enough against the surrounding soil. You need to dig a trench around the greenhouse anyways to put your foundation in so you can do both at the same time. The soil that you dig out can serve as build material in the northern wall as thermal mass
Your presentations are very informative and inspiring! Thx
Glad you like them!
Thank you for the great information
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much,I really appreciate your sharing this knowledge!
Thank you for the kind words!
As a mongolian who thinks we should try to grow our own food, I bow to you sir, thank you
Cheers from Manitoba, Canada.
We have very similar climates
Great video.. I notice no mention of green house size with respect to heating It, a smaller/lower house would be easier to heat. Keep the heat close to the plants - heating a 15 feet high house is sometimes the challenge. Low level heat source and then trap the heat low - close to the plants.
The insulated blanket is a must. I worked in northern Alberta for years. We insulated oil refining equipment - always used insulated tarp and would double them as needs. It made a huge difference. A small heater was sometimes all that was needed to heat the inside. Great info, thanks for posting.
Thank you for the info!
I don't have a huge green house just 8x12ft long. But in Colorado mountain winters I use terracotta candle heaters for when really drops down. My windows are only south, none on north. And cover over widows at night. And it gets to probably 40deg inside when it's in negatives at night. The candles are just the tea candles cost about 4 cents each and last 8hrs.
That’s awesome
Another EXCELLENT EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! I have learned SOOOOO MUUUCCCHH from your videos. THANK YOU _ THANK YOU _ THANK YOU!!! I will be incorporating several of your suggestions into my greenhouses. I feel that it is GREAT to be able to grow year-round. You did do a video 1 yr ago on pollinators for the summertime. That being said, 1 topic you have not touched on yet is how do you use and where from do you get the "pollinators" for 40F and below???? We do not wish to grow plants that do not produce a food product (tomato, cukes, melons, peppers, etc...) Keep up the EXCELLENT VIDEOS. GOD Bless.
Thank you for the kind words. my greenhouse is small and I manually do it - but I have a video on pollinators in the archives
Excellent information, will add this to the dream pile. Thanks 👍😊
Glad it was helpful!
🙏🙏🙏 Thank YOU!!!! Youjust changed my life!!!
you're very welcome
I met a grower who tried triple poly layers...it worked fantastic...lower heat loss and no big change to the light levels...
Good to know!
My English is not very good. Are you talking about a three-layer co-extruded single-layer material or a three-layer cavity material? If three-layer co-extruded single-layer material, because the thermal resistance of the pure material is certain, there is not much room for improvement, and the thermal insulation performance cannot be good. If it is a three-layer cavity material, the light transmittance will be seriously attenuated, how can you solve it?
@@sunc1122 He is talking about three separate layers of thin plastic greenhouse film.
@@pete1853 If the three-cavity structure is used, the current light transmittance is about 70%. If it is a three-layer structure, it is impossible to reach 70%, and it is expected to be 60% or even lower. It is very simple. The three-layer cavity structure is relatively airtight, with less dust and water vapor, and the blocking of solar radiation is limited, mainly due to material attenuation. If It is a three-layer structure, and the final attenuation of the material is normal by about 30%, but the attenuation of dust and water vapor in the middle of the interlayer will become more and more serious, and eventually the value of cultivation will be lost.
I watched a video of a guy from Utah who had during the winter citrus trees bearing fruit because he used that method though had 2 layers instead with straw on the outside as insulation too.
I grow hydroponic produce and the flavour is amazing.
Some people do get the minerals just right. The stuff I buy at the grocery store is flavourless
Totally wish there was a small scale backyard option, for personal use, that economically made sense.
Just build it
LOVE your channel!
Thank you so much!!
Thank you for this video!! Great information.
I am sharing....
Thank you soo much for the kind words
Thks & your best big-picture greenhouse videos.
so nice of you!
Great stuff. Thanks.
You have very good, well-developed ideas. I like your style.
Thank you very much!
Mr. Tek - I recently viewed a YT video that talked about using lake/geothermally heated water as an energy source for heating a greenhouse. Was that you? YT Reference?
Some time ago, I had an idea for a semi-active heating system for a greenhouse. Dig 1 (or more in a larger greenhouse) pit. And start a compost heap. You could even run some tubing in it and circulate water through some radiators. I sone a video a few years ago, a guy used a system like this to heat a cold room in his house.
Nice
How you put new portion of compost ? And where you get it in large quantities in the first place ?
@@user-qv6ud2hx6f For this you don't want finished compost. Start it new. You can use table scraps, manure leaves, grass clippings mixing in some hay/straw. Mix it up then put a temperature probe in it. As it's composting, it creates heat. You want to watch the temperature, as if it gets above 165°, it'll kill the microbes. When the temp gets up there, sprinkle a little water on it. Slowly. If you bring the temperature down too much, it'll stop composting until the moisture seeps out.
Hi! Very interesting video! Thank you!
Would be very interested in the diagam shown at 14:40. Could you maybe provide a source?
In a research project in Europe we are about to build a foil tunnel setup with an internal thermal storage and an insulated north wall. We are building one GH with and one without for to collect data on the efficiency of theses measures. Currently desperately waiting for the building permit.
Thank you bro!
You’re very welcome
Walipini 2.0, cant remember the guys name, older man, he had great success with the model you are describing here. I dont thing a geodesic dome could compete with this. Good video, thanks for all you do in helping people realize their power to grow sustainable food.
Thank you
Some really helpful comments here :)
:)
You can also dig down into the earth and have a partial submerged greenhouse that runs almost completely off of thermal energy…
Great video
Thank you for the kind words!!!!
Yeah you could use wood chips sawdust mix like i seen a guy do on CZcams, he was from North Dakota i think grow oranges, he piled up sawdust 5 or 6 feet high and probably 4 or 5 feet thick along the walls of greenhouse and it provided enough heat from the decomposing saw dust
Cool
For me this is likely due to congenital hip surgery when I was 2 yrs old & then put into a body cast. I am sure long before the fascia tissues were recognized as so helpful in supporting one's body.
Great video!
suggestions/ideas: 1) using pvc run from outside underground far enough cold/hot air’s temperature changes to steady ground temp (around 52-60 F). In northern lower peninsula of Michigan its about 6ft deep & 20ft long. A high placed vent would draw the air no power needed. So worth the effort of installing.
2) Also you could dig down a few feet and insulate all around (including the ground insulation). This would shorten the amounts of clear building materials needed and add ground level protection from cold
3) north wall reflective surface. LOL Get creative. I am curious if tin foil can be used like wallpaper. This will increase the direct sunlight we have so little of in the north.
4) Straw bale gardening. You prep the bales to begin decomposition. During this period you must keep it wet so it won’t catch fire from the heat created in the process. After a couple weeks, you can plant seedlings directly into the bale. Because slow decomp is happening there is still som heat production keeping the bale’s interior about 60-70F. So even if air temp drops the roots and plants should stay out of danger
Some good ideas there
Running pipes under ground, I read an article somewhere where they said it was not a good idea due to mold. Any issues with that?
The tin foil is does work. I did this myself thinking back to the days I started seedlings in a tin foil lined box in my southern facing windows and thought, why wouldn't it work in the greenhouse. I up cycled some old reflectix panels (the ones that go across the windshield of your car) that I found at a yard sale.
@@MK-ti2oo great idea thanks
I live in Rocky Mountain House Alberta and have a hoop house that I would like to improve. Great ideas!!! Thank you so much.
Great stuff!! If there is a way to generate clean CO2 using some form of slow steady combustion (compost bins in the grow space??), you can produce heat AND CO2 at night at least.
Yes, but why not just make wine and beer for co2
Useful tips. What about pollination? Do you have any links to where to get blanket insulation or greenhouse frames that would hold the 2ply poly sheets?
I use amazon or alibaba or eBay
I'm thinking seriously on initiating a massive project of commercial growth of some Mediterranean crops in greenhouses in Quebec.
I'd love to have a chat over the idea and to understand better the components of the challenge .
There’s a lot to consider
Great video! But are these passive solar greenhouse concepts best applied to larger greenhouses though? I only have a 12'x24' footprint for a greenhouse but live in southern WI and would love to extend the growing season with a passive solar greenhouse. Just wondering if it will be economically practical for such a small size.
Yes, absolutely
Have you looked into Walapini style green house semi underground w cold sink.
Yes, video on my archives
From what I have seen, it seems to me that a rocket mass heater would be perfect for heating a greenhouse. It is far more efficient and effective than a regular wood stove. It's worth looking into.
I put a heater cable in the soil plus a agribon fleece inside
It cost less than a fresh vege basket at the store (no tomato, pepper during winter and its all right)
That's awesome!
Even some tropical fruit could be grown with the right setup. Especially citrus, this would be so so nice to be able to get fresh citrus that wasn’t trucked 1000 miles or more
Exactly!!!!
Have you looked into fiber optic light transfer and growing inside in that?
You lose about 7~8% of sunlight intensity per layer of transparent poly
If heat is an issue and you need supplemental light. HPS, MH, or CMH would be good options as they provide light and heat during on hours
the electricity cost is high though, cheaper to do heat other ways
@@SimpleTek I indoor grow with lights. High end LED are for sure the way to go but low end Amazon LEDs don't have what it takes. Better than nothing for sure. But push comes to shove I would take 1-1000w HPS to cover a 10x10 (Provided adequate height is available) in a GH vs 4-250w cheaper LEDs for that same space. A 250w led..depending on form factor. Would cover a 4-9sqft each. Higher end LEDs I would go with high density bars with a good throw meant for GH lighting. But upfront cost is prohibitively expensive for most people.
Just my opinion.
@@OnePercentFail you have good opinions!
and they are free these day s as legal weed has destroyed the growers market @@OnePercentFail
thankyou
You’re welcome
ok but where can one buy a rolling isulation blanket? all I have found is construction tarps at r1 ish
Cool
;)
Did you ever try the Jean Pain Heating at your place? I looked but did not find a video after the one where you mentioned possibly doing it.
Seems it is all about the Humidity in the pile before you begin and having the right combination of materials, although, I have seen wood chip piles only get pretty hot by themselves, if they are fresh chips full of moisture.. I have also seen fresh piles of sawdust at a sawmill steaming pretty well.
I’m late in the season but actually planning to set it up this weekend! I have 3 dumping trailer loads of leaves from hardwood trees, 2 loads of wood chips, two round bails of hay and lots of manure. Plus lots of tubbing! Stay tuned!!!
I need to find a video that covers the how-to for building one of these, preferably with easy-to-resource and easy-to-use materials (like electrical conduit for the curved framing). I suspect I may have to trial and error my way through it though.
trial and error is way more fun and expensive!
I recycle trampolines into greenhouses I can show you how if you like contact me.
@@armchairlonghair I would be interested in that.
can you direct me to some plans? you're videos are nice, but just a tease. I like and subscribe
Does the ground really pull all the heat out or does it act as a thermal mass? Doesn't heat rise? Once you get the ground warm I'd think it would be beneficial..
frozen ground will suck a ton of heat out if not insulated in some way
Actually theres a way to produce or keep heat better. Some guy in Canada, I think used sand as insulation.
I was thinking of using clay bricks and then sand because clay is great for heat retention as well
I was thinking of using a hot bed either inside or underneath the clay bricks (like a basement) that way the heat would also travel upwards to warm up the above plants. So it would be free passive heating
Good ideas
Good video on an interesting subject. I like you enthusiasm too. It is amazing to me that China uses millions of these structures to good advantage and they are barely known here in the west. The relatively low cost of construction and operation (compared to conventional) is also impressive. I wish I had one of these attached to my house. I would spend a lot of time just hanging out in it breathing in all that fresh air and donating my CO2 to the cause. Maybe have a chicken house that moves around on the inside of it too with just a few chickens.
we need more passive solar greenhouses in North America!!!
@@SimpleTek Yes!!
@@SimpleTek we have a few empty malls/Sears/Zellers locations that could be easily converted...I just don't have any money🤪🤣
@@nodigBKMiche who needs money - if they are empty find the owners and PITCH an idea - they may back you - if they don't , find other places till someone does. you don't need money - you need WILL, desire and work. money comes later
Why not sprout grains in the greenhouse environment and bring them to the chickens? Chickens love fodder and it makes really high-quality and inexpensive feedstock. You could still let the chickens process the compost. They do a great job of turning and fertilizing organic matter. I'm sure the chickens would love the environment, especially in the winter. Summertime heat needs to be addressed.
Where we live (BC) it's better to insulate the ground AROUND the greenhouse and direct geo heat into the greenhouse floor. In our experimental hoop house we are seeing November temps inside of 7-8° when it's below freezing outside without heat. I am surprised how well it works.
This might not be sustainable in December and January.
That’s awesome! Please keep me informed!
An idea- For colder temperatures look into a thermal blanket!
@@SimpleTek I checked out blankets. Right now I'm focussing on crops that only need protection from freezing as opposed to active growth and fruiting
I'd like to see the blanket being rolled out and rolled up. Am I correct in assuming that it would be rolled up every morning?
yes
What about using one like this with thermal for cooling in the winter time in southern Louisiana where it only gets cold like a couple days before spring ...and do the angles of the walls for the poly have to be different for that latitude
And raise the ground up for thermal cooling because the water table is only a shovel deep in almost below sea level
might work
Thanks for this great content, I am looking into building a greenhouse like this and live in proximity to you south-east of winnipeg. Would love to get an experts view on potential!
Thank you for the kind words! What would you like to know?
@@SimpleTek I have access to a bobcat and a space attached to my house that I am looking into building a photovaltaic greenhouse with double layer polyethylene, if efficiency is the priority, would you recomment thermal underground heating or does the solar/heat pump as you alluded to in another video make more sense. Also, if the greenhouse was to be say 40'x25' considering structure/solar/heat and everything in between, how much ballpark do you think the cost of this would be as startup. Thanks
@@paulbruno4308 call me tomorrow late morning 204 898 1841, I go over a bunch with you
Why add a CO2 generator when heating with wood? Especially a true rocket stove? Have the exhaust plumbed into the heat storage wall & sometime exit back into the grow area.
Cough cough
using compost as a heat source by product is added co2 to the greenhouse
ok
Do you plan to talk about biogas in the future . I think that home biogas could be a great option for cooking and heating ( greenhouse ore house )
actually that's a great topic Idea. Jean Pain a few decades ago in Franc did some research on that - I haven't seem much else. It's worth exploring!
The operation and maintenance of household biogas is too complicated and not suitable. It is valuable to have a large amount of fermented material source and harmless treatment for commercial cultivation.
What about use solar panels, no windows , r40-r50
What about it?
I suggest you consider adding perimeter insulation, Styrofoam, in the soil, around the perimeter. See U of Minnesota, underground space center's documents.
I have my BS and MS in Agricultural Engineering. But, most of my work has been in electrical engineering.
that works well if you want a soil ground to grow in - if you're growing in pots or hydroponic or aquaponic insulating the floor is enough. Thank you so much for the comment!!!!
If the soil is cultivated or the soil is used for energy storage, it is necessary to make an insulation layer around the greenhouse. If only the soilless cultivation is heated, only the ground needs to be insulated.
where I live, NW Washington it is cloudy quite a lot. How would these houses do ?
You can always add led grow lights
Hydroponic tomatoes can taste wonderful. You just can't use the cheapest possible chemical mixture. They need seaweed extract, worm casting teas, etc. The other reason why they taste like cardboard is because most greenouse plastics block UV. This affects flavor and nutrition.
Good info
I grow tomatoes in hydroponics and strawberries. They don't taste like cardboard.
However when the plants start to flower they need potassium
A Bloom nutrient has more potassium than the normal vegetative growth nutrient.
I sometimes just add a potassium additive to the nutrient for this stage of fruiting.
mine grow under a plastic film however it is a greenhouse film designed to let uv through
with an inner weave to give it strength against hail stones.
I am planning on making another hot house with a double layer of plastic with air gap to insulate against -1 degree Celsius in winter.
When would you use the Thermal blanket ?
Winter nighttime
Have you done any research on rabbits or chickens in the green house? Fertilize,CO2 and warmth from the animals. I met a guy when i was young that did rabbits in northern Montana.
that might work
Wouldn’t a rocket stove provide maximum heat and smokeless CO2, at the same time?
And possibly heated water for and emergency perimeter radiant heat system?
Rocket mass heaters work well
What about compost with heat pipes to draw the heated air only and not the gases from the compost. Compost can get so hot it can catch fire. Several methods to supliment each other, and the end result is compost sells in the spring summer, if you cant use it.
I have a video on compost heating in my archives
Hydroponic produce tastes just fine
Obviously you haven’t been forced to eat it all winter in Canada lol
Are there any kits of these green houses for people who are not as skilled in finding all the right pieces to build this?
Try alibaba
The problem with growing in Northern Europe Is the lack of light. Even if you can heat the greenhouse it’s still dark almost all the time in the winter. Large parts of Sweden , Norway, Finland is above the Arctic circle. That means no sun for months
that's why you add LED grow lights in the winter to boos the light
You show the insulated cover upside down. The black side goes out. Dark color absorbs more heat.
good point
Keep tryin to leave nice comments and I come back they're all deleted 🤣 wow. Anyway yeah, thanks for this great video and all of the info. I was able to cop an entire thermal solar system with 4 panels. 50gal indirect tank (battery) even a high end taco stainless steel pump ALL from craigslist. It's the most efficient system available. 100k BTU for 220 watts.
Welcome back!
What about snow? 500kg/m2 - per season in my area
that's a lot of snow
can i just styrofoam a concrete based floor and then do the wet pipes?
yes but I did it with styrofoam, plastic, sand then concrete blocks with pipes running through the sand
The idea of adding CO2 is a great idea.
Thank you
What about woodchip compost heating? It also slowly releases CO2
I have a video on compost heating in my archives
Can also co-mingle chickens and manure in a portion to create some heat and co2 ..they will work thru a pile over time
Even a dirt cheap greenhouse, i.e. a few poles in the ground, then a few more poles making a basic dome, + plastic sheeting, can create insane temperature differences between inside and outside. It’s insane to be struggling in 30F temps, walk over to the greenhouse, open it up and get blasted by a hot cloud of humid 80F air. If you stuff the greenhouses full of plants, and give them a good watering in the morning, you can easily see 50F temp differences, with no external heating elements.
The good thing with a -40° greenhouse?
It works in both celcius and farenheit!
:)
I'm in where we start to say north in quebec, I have build a 2m X 5m, almost 1m deep greenhouse, my house air exchanger get is exhaust 2feets underground 120feets long to the green house with 2 waterline for a hot water recirculating. there is an aquaponie system where the bottom of the tank (360L) is 2m deep, my water stay at 42f,.
It's my first winter with all this setup and the recirculation will start tomorrow for now i'm winning 22f in my greenhouse and when i open the hot water i win 50f more in my exhaust funnel
so my goal is to get some citrus in ground when outside it's -40c/f
I will start to make some video about it in next 2month for now i'm very busy
that's awesome
I think that in extreme climates like Minnesota where -40 is an annual likelihood, I think that heating a greenhouse like this with water circulating through a very large compost pile backed up by wood heat for the worst days might work well. If the wood heat was also making biochar, that would be ideal.
Mmmm warm Minnesota… says the Manitoban
@@SimpleTek I understand, every time I visit relatives in Indiana, I expect to see orange trees.
lol
You covered winter heat, but what about summer cooling? I have read that most Chinese greenhouses overheat in summer; couldn’t that heat be stored underground for winter use? I am currently planning to build a Chinese greenhouse on my retirement property. It’s mostly ravine running east and west, and I would appreciate all the help I can get!
Great point - I actually have several videos on that in my archives! Thank you for the comment!
Regarding cooling in summer, there are currently no new technologies except shading, convection, spraying, and water curtain evaporation. The energy consumption of air-conditioning and refrigeration is too large, and commercial application is almost impossible.
Cold source storage in winter requires a lot of investment. We have tested it, if it is used for residential cooling, it may be economical, if it is used in a greenhouse, it is almost impossible, because plant cultivation requires a lot of ventilation, dehumidification, and storage of cold sources. It is not enough to lower the temperature to achieve a suitable cultivation environment.
Would the cooling tubes plus vents used in earthships work? Those would passively draw the heat out.
I was told about a greenhouse automatic wax vent opener. So when the hothouse heats up the wax expands and the rod pushes a roof door vent up to vent out the heat. when it cools down the wax contracts and closes the vent.
google search greenhouse auto wax vent rod
Use the north wall as a solar generator
ok
what about laying 1 foot tubing, below the frost line, and then attach a fan to the inlet side (inside the greenhouse). Then you are pulling air that is heating to 10 - 12 degrees celcius (54 F). (check out Abby Elder, Nebraska farmer)
It works in Nebraska, here the ground temp under the frost line is 5’C. Needs more heat
@simpletek where does one get this greenhouse you keep on showing?
You build it! Parts on alibaba
@@SimpleTek does that style have a certain model name or style?
@@ShivCrow35847 look up Chinese or solar greenhouse designs
I live in NW Montana in basically the mountains (so mass trees) and I want to do roughly a 10x20 greenhouse. We’re snow for about 8-9 months of the year, can dip down to the negatives F - which means very little sun due to the suns location behind mass trees and of course clouds. Most things I keep finding is based off the suns energy, which we lack most the time- There’s no power at the only place I can put it. Ideas on setting up a system to sustain through the 8-9 months of cold snow, and then keep cool in summer as we do get up to 90-100F - I think the geothermal water heating in ground would work best maybe. Ground is clay, but we do get lots of water run off due to the snow melting. Would going only 1ft down in ground with water tubing be ok? Having it be hot in winter, then cool in summer- 1 system to do both aspects? Then just figure out a way to run fans without sunlight
How much wind do you get?
@@SimpleTek - not a whole lot, sometimes we can get some wind or strong wind storms that roll through. Maybe a way to make water generated power? I mean we’re snow most the time, so maybe utilize it some how and just keep it circulating- Then warmer periods I could then use well water… this has been a challenge for me to come up with ideas based on my location for sure - for our growing season we have to start seeds in Jan-Feb to be old enough by mid -End May (generally our last frost and Snow period) to plant outside to be able to get yields during the 3-4 months we have of “summer”, then by Sept it can snow or not (Montana is bipolar weather, it never really knows what it wants to do lmao) - I’m in what they call here the Snow Belt, my mother is down in the valley portion and often doesn’t get our temps/snow - Her greenhouse she had built has been sustaining a Guppy Pond so far even without major heating, but she also spent a fortune on it’s build, just in materials.. something I can’t afford myself.
@@firetoashes8752 is a compost heating like an option?
@@SimpleTek - It’s a thought I’ve been researching as well. I’ve got the acreage to do it no problem (10 acres of trees) - which I had thought to even wood burning stove, but that just makes me nervous surrounded by forest (hate to be the one to cause a forest fire) think it boils down to main issue is power of some sort to run fans etc with no actual sun to draw from during winter months - think if I can tackle that issue, then the rest can be what ever.
@@firetoashes8752 I get less sun than you and solar works here. You just need more panels and batteries
Aaahh! Insulating the roofs after the sun goes down with a roll-down blanket!!
Now that makes a hell of a lot of sense! But where do you get the CO2 from?
The climate I live in rarely goes below minus 10F, and when it goes lower, it
lasts for only a day or a night. The trouble is I live in the middle of a forest that blocks out
sunlight; so i guess that lets me out... In order to get all the southern exposure clear
I'd have to cut down 3-4 acres of trees and most of those trees aren't on my property.
Clearly you need to make wine and beer for co2 in your greenhouse ;)
@@SimpleTek
Since I can't build a greenhouse in the first place your comment is moot.
Next time read the entire comment.
@@indrekkpringi you like excuses, not buying any of them
@@SimpleTek
Excuse me?... You think I'm lying?
Come over to my property and see if I'm lying to you.
You can go to hell, and you will: for your disgusting cynicism.
I so totally agree about how irresponsible it is to truck in produce from so far away. We are capable of doing it ourselves. Individuals who are passionate and money to buy preliminary materials. I’d love to see it happen here in northern Wisconsin.
P.S. Your sound could be better. I’m not sure what you need to do.
Thank you for the kind words. Working on the sound
Your co2 is also a heat source. Its created by burning propane.
very true!
Could I put a cabin in one end of it and live in it?
Why not?!?!!
What is the best way to get in touch with you to ask many questions?
Hjor@mts.net
So basically since you’re talking about thermal mass it would be advantageous to build a large aquaponic tank on the back wall and raise fish So that it just wasn’t wasted space, I can see a 40’ x 4’ deep I 5 foot wide fish tank or pond if you wish
I guess so!
Im thinking a 2ft wide 3 ft tall by length with countertop work space over it. That way you don't lose that space. And the top can be raised to service the tank.
A fish tank of that size would contain about 6000 gallons of water. The problem would be the transfer of oxygen from the air to the water. Without some direct aeration or a wave motion agitator the Dissolved oxygen (DO) (oxygen gas (O2) that is dissolved in water) would be too low to support fish life.
The three main ways O2 gets into water are: 1 photosynthesis, plants and algae exhaling O2 which requires light. Doesn't work at night. 2. Air in direct contact with the surface of the water (not very efficient by itself). 3. Wave action of the water which "stirs up" the O2 in contact with the water. Think fish tank bubblier it is not the bubbles in contact with the water in the tank so much as it is the wave created on the surface of the water when the bubbles surface.
Fish tank is not a bad idea, it is just not as simple as you think.
Remember that the water (thermal mass) will hold heat in the summer as well as the winter so increased ventilation in the summer may be necessary or water circulation (cold water source) to keep the tank from over heating the greenhouse or getting the water temperature too hot for the fish.
@@genocanabicea5779 The wider the tank surface the more likely the water will be oxygenated. A 5' wide tank could still have a work surface built over it covering part of the tank (still need open space for O2 transfer). A X' deep tank can be built partly into the ground (with or without insulation below ground) to make the counter height where you want it to be.
Just few technical questions:
1. If it is "winter" greenhouse, when Dec-Jan we have only half sun exposition and high cloud activity how the sun light is expensive?
2. When we are in sun deficiency, we use double poly. I hope you have a good supply. But there is about 80% transparent poly. If there are 2 layers, it is 64% transparent. Meanwhile I have seen perfectly transparent one layer greenhouse. March it requires at least 12°C outside to keep 20°C inside.
3. If the north wall is "thermal mass", why the ground is thermal loss?
Thanks for very common explanations!
indoor growers are performing well at lower than cloudy winter day light intensity so 64% aint so bad depending on the crop.
@armchairlonghair You know better. Just some theory: plants took the light for own growth first, then - for the seeds, and the last - for fruits and their taste. So, if there are cucumbers or latuce - it is good enough. When it is -30°C outside, it is easier and cheaper to grow plants under electric light.
I do know better I know facts. You are making shit up with your growth seeds fruit taste nonsense. Provide a link to back it up. Point is indoor grow does fine with less lumens than 64% of sun so your point / worry is unfounded .
I'm in a lovely part of central Tasmania, Australia called Meander. My property sits at 400m i.e. in a frost zone. I'm planning to build a 25m x 6m greenhouse based on your principles. Probably build a bern on the north side out of clay. Hoping the bern can be slopped and back packed by the excavator enough to not have to use retaining walls. Looking for local suppliers for the double poly and thermal blanket. I'll add windows for air flow during the day. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Paul
It seems like you'd want to build your berm on the *south* side.
@@briandash1351 Hi Brian. Why so as I understand that that (bern on south side) goes against the basic principles of a Chinese Greenhouse.
@@paulgalea8670 If you are in Tasmania, then you are in the Southern hemisphere. The sun's path should be generally to your North. You'd want the "front" of the greenhouse to face toward the sun -- to the North. The sun would shine through to your thermal mass / berm in the 'back' of the greenhouse -- the Southern side.
I hope that makes sense for you.
I think Brian is right - the point is the transparent area to face the sun
Hi again. Huge smile from the Land of Oz. I hadn't accounted for Southern Hemisphere relates realities. My planning continues. Sincerely TY. No to find a way to incorporate no dig, and hydroponic growing principals into the green house. Im hoping to grow grapes, passionfruit and heirloom watermelon. After all i have 25m to coordinate my garden rotation. Why not I say. Paul
Focus in the positive
Great attitude
Please tell me if some manufacturers of the metal roof beams, soecific to the Chinese greenhouse design, and the thermal blanket. Phone numbers would be good if you know them as well.
try alibaba.com
I was thinking about the best greenhouse.
Greenhouse during summer is disadvantage actually for too much heat. so the windows should be removable during summer. another disadvantage of green house is....paradoxically the windows again. during winter and during night, there is no reason to have windows, heat is running out of them, so at winter nights, windows should be covered by insulation. you need windows only when there is sunlight outside and only if greenhouse is cold.
also the north wall of greenhouse should be painted white inside, so the sunlight is reflected. black paint absorbs more heat, but the sunlight is more important to plants. compromise - black and white stripes.
Well said, but think fans too. Windows won’t dissipate enough heat
@@SimpleTek well therefore I said the windows should be removable for too much heat during summer reason. also the rain can go in when windows are off. another disadvantage of greenhouse is, it doesn't let the rain in, so the greenhouse soil is very dry often.
@@marian20012 just removing the windows isn’t enough in many circumstances, you need fans as well.
How much does it cost approximately for one commercial winter greenhouse, at a budget?
Everything is soo different now after the pandemic
What is a solar blanket?
a removable blanket that covers the transparent area of a greenhouse increasing the R value at night