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Using PATIENCE To Accelerate Progress At the Piano!
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 12. 08. 2024
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This video discusses strategies for efficient practice, and how using patience can actually speed up the learning curve on tough passages. Remember to never compare yourself to others - focus on your own progression, and continuously set new goals to better yourself on a weekly, monthly, and yearly basis!
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Iâm an adult learner, practicing regularly for 6 months. I feel like I am finally turning the corner and playing is becoming even more enjoyable as the sight reading and technicality becomes easier. Patience has been the key to progress. My teacher is constantly repeating the benefits of hands separate practice. âWait until that left hand is literally âscreamingâ to play.â Itâs frustrating as a beginning adult because we want to learn fast but it pays to be disciplined. Among the many piano teaching videos on the internet, I find your videos exceptionally helpful. Thank you for your commitment to virtual learners.
For 12 years Iâve beat myself up for learning too pieces too slowly and sabotaged my learning consequently. Thanks, Josh, for sharing your experience and message.
Figa Zumbi Only twelve years? Half a century for me đł
I totally agree with you on isolating hands. The human brain can only focus on one thing at a time. Trying to do both hands at once too early, especially with Bach, can only lead to ignorance of small details.
absolutely, we are not designed to multitask
What truly enjoy in your videos is when you confess your weaknesses. I find this as a honest and humane way of teaching. Thanks a lot. Keep it up!
Absolutely! That makes Josh one of the best teachers out there (along with Miss Aime Nolte)
Iâm in the second level of RCM. Thereâs not much comparison between what Iâm learning and the pieces Josh is working on but I find this video to be very helpful... and comforting. Sometimes I rush through a piece because âI must learn all 51 repertoire and Ă©tude pieces so that I can finish one grade level per year!â. Thanks Josh for addressing this.
I'm seeing this over two years after you posted it, but I think it is very real and thus an encouraging video. I know that I have judged myself very harshly and largely given up because I realized that the "really good" musicians could learn music a lot faster than I could. I felt like it just isn't worth the effort because it takes forever and even then it isn't note perfect.
While I did a fair amount of piano early on, my major instrument became the pipe organ. Imagine, when we are going to do "hands alone" it really means practicing: 1) Pedal alone, 2) Left Hand alone, 3) Right Hand alone, 4) Pedal and Left, 5) Pedal and Right, 6) just Hands together, 7) and finally Everything together. It is a 7 step process to work out really complex sections.
I wish pianists would find a way to practice Bach on the harpsichord, or organ, as it helps open the ear to what Bach was hearing when he wrote these works.
The process of learning to play piano on my own has taught me patience. It's all about slowing down and UNDERSTANDING the music. Your videos are SO helpful. Many thanks!
YES!! Thanks for this video Josh - today's world there's too much emphasis on everything happening super quickly, instant gratification, waiting a few seconds for your computer to upload is a few seconds too long haha. Often the answer (and just good habits in general) is long-term consistency and patience.
Gorgeous piece. Gorgeous playing. Youâre helping a lot of pianists and other teachers. Thanks josh.
Also Iâve noticed the same reaction to Bach among my students. They tend to prefer romantic lyrical composers like Chopin.
you probably dont give a damn but does any of you know of a method to log back into an Instagram account??
I somehow forgot the login password. I love any help you can offer me!
@Payton Ernest instablaster ;)
@Marcos Davian Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Marcos Davian It worked and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my account :D
Your learning curve is slow?
" hold my beer "
My learning curve has basically flatlined.
Put down the beer and get back to your piano. ;)
@@crotchy7667 đ€Ł
#flattenthecurve
my learning curve had been a horizontal line for 3 years
Being able to play a piece correctly with all the necessary emotion and depth at AT 1/8 THE ACTUAL TEMPO is far better than racing into it at tempo and making a dogâs breakfast of it. Doing that will GUARANTEE that you will most likely never be able to play it with any quality. Remember the hair and the turtle. Who was successful? I am 70 and I am still, still trying to climb Mt. Everest without learning to climb the stairs first (figuratively). I am getting better at it and it is all thanks to my wonderful piano teacher Elizabeth Gaikwad.
I definitely need to take this advice to heart more, and not just with playing an instrument but with life in general.
Luv ya, Josh! Thanks for revealing your thoughts..."Digestible bites" and "have the patience to stop". are my mantras for the next 5 days. We pianists work alone, and it's so easy to get discouraged-Your videos are the antidote
I'm pretty patient in learning but I have a few bucket list pieces I thought I would never be able to play. But last year when covid hit and I had no work for several months , I took advantage of the time by just tinkering around w L'Isle Joyeuse for almost the whole year a little bit everyday and today it is a piece I can play through at moderate speed.
Woah, I never actually thought of it in that way... Thanks for the insight
I don't like to have this as the content message but it seems that I am 1st, cheers!
I am an adult returner who recently got back to a bit higher than advanced intermediate level. Now I do work on small chunks of pieces, but several pieces at a time. I took that approach because my repertory had become deceivingly poor, I forgot many pieces that I used to play, and also lost quite a lot of my sight reading skills, and reading more pieces helps with that. For learning, it will probably not be substantially different time than working on a single piece at a time. Still have to work on memorizing, but I am aware that I won't get back my 20 years old memory and it will take a lot of time. Bach is helping a lot for all these aspects.
Bach clears your mind.
Thank you, Josh, for this new perspective! Yes, this Quarantine gives us the chance to dive deeper into the music.
What a great video! And I can't imagine a pianist saying not to practice hands separately. And with Bach?? Sorry. No way.
When I was learning the Goldberg Variations it took me about a year before I could successfully START to isolate the voices. It was a blurry mess for a long time. My teacher also advised me to sing the separate SATB lines. The breath control required to shape a pleasing line I try to transfer to the phrase. And you are spot ON about patience. I have to fight the speed dragon every day. CG Jung used to say "Through your patience, you will win your soul." And your honest and humble approach is proof of your great strength as a performer as well as teacher. How much more uplifting it is when people share their vulnerabilities instead of hide and pretend.Alfred Brendel, easily one of the greatest pianists of recent history, said he never possessed a great memory. (!!!) And then he plays the Beethoven cycle of 32 sonatas in a week at Carnegie Hall.Go figure.
And how about you playing the 4 Ballades and OTHER Chopin works in one evening! And beautifully!!
So lucky you're with us on CZcams!
This video really hit spot on for me, Josh. I just came from a midnight walk listening to the Well-Tempered clavier book 1 played by Andras Schiff. My relationship with Bach has been an on and off kind of a thing for a long time. I played the Invention 13 a long time ago and sadly didn't like the piece or the process that much. Now, I've grown a lot and learned a lot since then and my methods of practice have improved for the better. With that the way I listen has changed too and Bach seems a lot more interesting to me now. Listening to people like Schiff and Murray Perahia play Bach has always been both alien and fascinating to me.
But still I listen and at times I get the strongest kind of sensation of connection to music that I've ever had. That level of being one with the music is one of the reason why I love music but it's fickle. One of those times happened when I listened to Schiff play the E flat minor prelude from the Well-tempered Clavier. Now, I'm not religious and my views on religion are beside the point but I guess listening to Schiff play that particular Bach piece at that particular time was like a religious experience for me. I love the harmonies, the voicing, the dynamics, the tempo, everything. Nothing existed except that piece and it was beautiful.
So getting a little dose of Bach every now and again made me come back to Bach as a piano student. I jumped right into the E flat minor prelude of the Well-tempered Clavier Book I (which I ordered) and it has been kind of life changing. Impatience has always been one of my biggest problems as a student and practising this piece has completely shifted my way of thinking about practice. There are all these facets of learning that usually vary for me in interest from being mildly boring to really engaging. But with Bach (and I have been playing more of the book now) I feel like I'm mindful of details on a whole another level. I like figuring out the fingering and the hand and arm movements that come with it *and* I feel relaxed doing so, I enjoy practising hands separate and I focus on voicing both much more equally then I have focused on with say that Chopin Nocturne that you played which I incidentally have just been practising.
I know it's kind of like beating a dead horse at this point with the whole appraisal of Bach from a instrumental learning perspective but there seems to be something really valid there, something that speaks volumes about the kind of mind and experience Bach possessed. I've dabbled with the Goldberg variations aria as well and while I didn't get nearly as far with it than I have with say the Well-Tempered Clavier works it still offers that odd sensation of simply by playing Bach I learn technique, expression and listening much more efficiently than I have ever learned from playing a piece from another composer. And I have played etudes. I'm not very good at them, I'm barely an intermediate/intermediate advanced student. It's been a month and I'm slowly starting to get the hang of playing the Moszkowski etude in G minor Op 72. no 2.
So yeah, I guess I'm one of those Bach people now, yikes. I'm done rambling. Thanks for the video once again and I hope you and everyone in the comments are doing well.
I really needed this right now, i just started Clementi's sonatina in C, and i can barely get through 2 bars, especially that bar 9 with the alternating left hand.
I always tell my students that with Bach, the complexity of writing can change dramatically from bar to bar - even within a single bar. A sequential passage played in one key area might be fine, while that same passage in a different area ties you in knots. The grace of the music gives no indication as to how easy or difficult a section might be. (The D minor Sinfonia is a great example of this, among countless others.)
This fact is a great test of oneâs patience. If one expects that bar 2 should be like bar 1 in Bach, one is bound to get frustrated. You might be able to sight-read eight bars, while the next two beats could take 15 minutes to digest and play comfortably.
As if it wasnât enough that Bach composed these contrapuntal masterworks, unrivaled in technical mastery as well as emotional range and character, heâs also given us works that truly test our patience, and which force us to care about every note.
Your love for music is powerful and infectious. I appreciate it and thank you.
omg this is exactly how I practice Bach... personally I love how intricate it is and am more than okay with "slower" progress. Or simply that it just takes a lot more time because of it's complexities in harmony. Love your channel Josh! You are my go to teacher especially with technique and motivation!
This is pure gold. Thanks, Josh! Have a great week.
What an extensive repertoire you've got!! Love your work!!! Thanks for all your videos!!!! You're Amazing!!
Bach is such a joy and such a struggle! I learned a few inventions and a sinfonia but it still takes me forever to memorise and polish Bach pieces. I usually drop them after 2-3 weeks - not enough patience!
Thank you Josh for this fantastic advice. Iâm a late starter with piano and often feel I spend too long learning pieces, getting details right etc. You make me feel as though Iâm on the right track. Thanks.
I have been âimpatientlyâ playing Chopin for years! I love being able to hear how to break down the process of perfecting sections that I donât play well. Thanks Josh!
Thank you so much! Im am blessed and inspired by your words of wisdom to enjoy each score as i practice. I am humbled and encouraged by your ways to work through music especially when i continually mess up. Thank you and God bless you!
Thank you for this insight into your learning process with a tough composer who's not a go-to for you. Patience in facing a challenge is a life lesson we often learn through music. I would have loved to hear just ONE of the hobbies you alluded to.
hey josh, great insights you give in learning bach!in my personal learning process I found another aspect that could boost the learning curve with this highly sophisticated polyphonic music. that is the approach to understand the music theory behind it. in a first step I try to reduce the music to the basic structure leaving out the figuration and finding out which model is used (e.g. parallel thirds, parallel sixths, fouxbourdon, etc.) bar by bar. in baroque music it is all about three things: rule of the octave, sequence models and cadences. knowing all that stuff is crucial to being able to play bach with deep understanding. to get this broad basis in music theory even more patience is necessary. but having worked through it leads to faster learning and much better understanding of this music. and combined with your practice approach to a perfect performance.
i'm learning classical guitar (by my self) and there is a thing that i read in a blog that change the way i practice since then, is "don't ever practice mistakes". Seems obvious but as a begginer and practicing the whole song you don't realise this at first and in guitar is very easy to fall on it. So as you say, practice slowly is de most important goal to hear what is going on and you have to literally slow down you heart beat to do this. Thank you for the video, from Brazil here.
Josh, I love the way you're always so humble, thanks so much for this vid. It looks like we can be really overwhelmed by some pieces, and that's what is beautiful about music... Sometimes I go like my mind tells me to, simple, but maybe too simple, and then again, maybe not... ahah
Thanks for the video. I've been reading "The musician's way" book, and found many useful tips too. It also made me realize how much work and effort you, concert pianists, put in for a performance.
Thank you. I watch your videos frequently & find them helpful & encouraging. I find putting your suggestions & guidance extremely help valuable.
Thanks for this, Joel. It is indeed a privilege to be able to play, however haltingly, the works of such as Bach. And to have the time and resources to apply oneself to it.
Thank you! đ„°đ„°đ„°đ§Ąđ§Ąđ§Ąđđđ
Love everything about this video! Canât wait to hear you play this! And lots more Bach :)
This is a wonderful and extremely helpful topic you have presented here. Have to say I truly enjoy and appreciate your insight and it is exactly what I have been struggling with, that is how to develop more depth. I learn so much from my teacher; however, I think this is an area I have been "lighting" upon as I grow in my musicianship or whatever you want to call it. Thanks, Josh, as you are very engaging on these videos as well.
This is just the video I need today! I'm working on a Mozart and a Bach piece and I was beginning to get impatient with my progress. Thank you!
Excellent timing! I literally just stopped working on Bach Toccata in E minor and watched this. Thanks.
Josh, thank you SO much for your CZcams videos! This video was exactly what I needed to hear right now. I am nowhere near the level of a performing pianist, but I am learning a piece that has just a couple spots that I can't get correctly 100% of the time, maybe 75% of the time, but I am always guessing as I approach that section, whether or not I'm going to get it. I hadn't been doing hands-alone, but perhaps it's time to, at least for these trouble spots. Thanks again!
Exactly what I needed.
Yes, yes, yes. It is interesting, beautiful and completely worthwhile to spend weeks working hands alone on Bach, shaping lines, paying attention to all the details, enjoying the dissonances, etc. Likewise with all the great composers; there are so many little beautiful details worth exploring that it's great to take it slow.
Keep crushing Josh
Thank you for very inspirational videos! That video helps me a lot because exactly today i am struggling with those things.. But now i feel very inspirational and tomorrow will be better practice day! I hope you all the best!
Thank you! I'm learning a Bach Prelude & Fugue right now and I needed to hear that. Shaping suffers so much from impatience
I love your video Josh!!!!!!!
This is a very good advice. I'll definitely try this.
This really cracked what I was asking in our private correspondance!
Such an interesting and valuable video, as usual. Thank You so much, Josh !âšâšâšđđ
Thank you. Thank you. This is what I needed
Thank you! Learning the Bach Italian Concerto right now and this was super helpful and reassuring.
it takes me hours to finish a josh wright video because I watch a few minutes and then gain the motavation to practice and then after praticing I come back to the video and repeat the process.
3 years later but my goodness, this has been my experience for the last few weeks since discovering him xD
@@danielliang9266holy crap I remember leaving that comment like It was yesterday, i didn't know I've been watching josh wright for that long
So insightful. Thank you.
Thank you for the tips! I'm currently on the Bach Prelude in C Minor from WTC Book 1, with a big influence from Glenn Gould's recording using a mix of legato and staccato. I've always rushed practice causing me to get a muddled sound. The descending sequences at the Allegro section has been especially difficult for me. Even though this way of practice for Bach that you shared isn't exactly revolutionary, it is very effective.
It's a great piece!
Bravo Josh !!
Thanks so much - being a complete beginner this really helped me!
It is funny that Murray Perahia made a study of Bach after a hand injury and has gone onto most of Bach. Josh take a page out of Perahia and it will make you a better pianist. I love your playing and I wish you the best ! Tom
Great advice, this really helped me.
Great advice! Iâm gonna treasure it, I needed it.
Since I take lessons on zoom once a week, I don't get a lot of time to analyze the music as much. I usually look thru the new song quickly to know what hand position to play in & correct fingering at the beginning of the peace. I average of 2 songs each week, at 30 minutes.
I belive there are many pianists that dont implement enough HS practice. I mean, if you practice really slowly, with full concentration, with fast and precise movements, you dont need to practice HS, and you could achieve actually alot , and do much of prep work for fast playing. But i also recommend always HS, just to figure out shaping of the phrase, then you could even mimic other hand, and dont play it, if it doesnt takes too much focus from other hand thou. So many ways of practicing, as long as mind is occupied and you enjoy it, go for it. :)
Thanks for the video đ
Such amazing content
boy did I need to hear this!
I'm working on the Prelude in F major, #11 - WTC bk 2 and I find myself trying to work on too big a chunk and hands together too soon . Holding notes their proper value is crucial in this and I found myself getting really frustrated.
Totally right
Josh, i really eppriciate your channel. Even if some tips are maybe for more advanced players as i am a beginner your video's motivatie me to practice moređ
Greetings from Amsterdam đ
I am not as good as you are, but it feels comfortable that you also have to deal with all these things. I am learning the KV. 397 D Minor from W. A. Mozart. It makes fun and it leveled me up. ItÂŽs interesting! Every next day I can play it a little bit better than yesterday. I share youâre opinion of Patience so much! đđŒ
So very true! Love your honesty in sharing, and the minute attention to details!
Great advices! It fits our paradoxical minds: slow is fast!
Lovely playing. Bach ? The man was a genius.
Nice tips!
He left out the singing in Glenn Gould's interpretation. :-D
I see this as explicit permission to play the same section over and over again and never move on because Iâm lazy and donât feel like getting the sheet music
But for real, you probably give really good advice. I often find myself rushing through sections Iâm not ready for due to frustration and impatience. I need to consciously tell myself to slow down sometimes.
Inspiring video. It's allways a temption to rush through a piece and missing the gems.
Iâll just practice at a tempo iâm not comfortable with and make multiple mistakes and not bother to fix them and a slower tempo
/s
bdhjz bcdhz **sacrilegious flight of the bumblebee increases**
@@pinkcripps2749 iNterEsTiNg!!1@!1!
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394 why is there so much crossover between this channel and 2set!!!??
Hey, Josh just discovered your channel. I've started to learn the piano just this year (having weekly classes with a professional pianist). I'm really curious whether my hand size will be imitating for me in the future. I can comfortably reach an octave but I don't think I will ever be able to reach (comfortably) a 9th or even a 10th (btw I'm 29 so my hands aren't going to get bigger anymore). I'd like to know what you think regarding hands size. Thank you so much for the amazing content. By the way, even though I target this question for Josh, anyone who answers I'll be grateful.
Josh, please do a video on how to press the keys for beginners?! A teacher told me to "stroke" them?! Others say to press, hit, tap the top of the white keys, not bottom?! I know this is super basic but getting the answer from a total pro would be amazing. Thank you so much
Are you an actress?
This too general of a question- it depends on what genre you are playing. For some romantic pieces, you would usually try to connect most of the notes (legato). However, in like baroque pieces or some pieces by Beethoven, you would "hit" the keys more since that's the style of the music. Of course, this doesn't apply to all baroque pieces, pieces by Beethoven, etc., so it really depends on your style, the style of the composer, the style of the particular piece. Music is an interpretation. However, beneath all that, it is important that all of your notes are clear and you press each key till the bottom-- you don't want to trade quality for speed. Hope this helps!
Thanks for The vĂdeo. Im learning piano on myself for 1 year and a half (I already knew how to read a sheet) I really love chopin but I know it isnt indicated for me . I just memorized Torrent but I think itll take a lot of time maybe a lot of years to build The technique. Should I abandon chopin and focus on easier pieces?
Iâve always been eager to learn pieces fast, and Iâll feel guilty if I canât do that. Thank you Josh.
Awesome! What piano do you have?
This might be one of your best videos.
Agreed
Josh, u definitely listened Gould perfomance of this peace a lot )))
Best of all, you really make me laugh!
Can you do a tutorial on Haydn third movement from sonata hob XVI:34
I loved your video bro, especially when U talked about Bach, he's my idol.
Thank you so much always dear Josh :)
Sam đ”âđ»
I somehow injured my left wrist while practicing, so it hurts when I play and even when I'm not playing. What should I do?
I love Bach! My college teacher was so picky with Bach and I hated it but he has come to be one of my favorites.
Hi
Of course you have to isolate hands!! You're right, Josh, don't listen to anything else.
Is this applicable to beginners learning something like a minuet over a couple weeks?
Esm S its applicable for everyone in any situation basically. I am one of those stereotypes mostly playing Chopin and Struggling with Bach. I learned the Minute Waltz and a good bit of the Nocturne 20 1 in the same time I learned a Bach Invention (I think it was D Minor) so yes, I struggle with Bach Inventions and I take the time like Josh does. But I dont play it for the most Part I just feeling more romantic haha
Wow so inspiring! Off to finish my 40 hours now...đł
Its 2020, bro
Ok, so I can do whatever i want
Did you say what piece it is you are practicing?
JS Bach Overture in the French Style (1st movement)
I never imagined Tom Cruise teaching me play piano on youtube. Wow!
Why did you ask that pianist if hands seperate is better than hands together if you already âknewâ the answer?
Wondered that myself. There are perfectly legitimate arguments for why that pianist could be right. Hands together is likely best because you engage different neural pathways doing hands together vs. separately. Really feeling the interdependence of the hands is a completely different physical experience than playing only one hand at a time. From this perspective, hands apart could actually be counterproductive if your ultimate goal involves both hands.
Josh didn't ask the 'prominent pianist.' He quoted the message he got from a student who had asked that question of the 'prominent pianist.'
It's the 'never' part of the advice that sounds like ideology to me. For some reason, there is a lot of ideology in piano pedagogy, where some teachers get so rigid about their chosen methods.
From what I've seen, high level piano students are always hearing contradictory advice in different master classes. Navigating those contradictions is the path to growth, I imagine. As someone who has been taught fiction writing by 'prominent novelists', my teachers knew I was not tamely obedient to their 'prominence.' Nor did they expect me to be. One teacher said he only admitted the 'sick f**ks' into his master class. All I did was fight with him, I thought he was a terrible teacher, and he denounced me to the rest of the class. Yet my writing improved in his class.
I always think of the poor professor who flunked Scriabin out of the Moscow Conservatory. 'Hey, aren't you that guy who flunked Scriabin out of composition class?" "Oh no, that's not me that's another Arensky."
Fugues be hard though
Bach torments to us all. He's a sadist, but he's worth it!
Hello Josh, absolutely loved this video. I think I am one of those people who stay away from Bach because of his music's complexity. But your video has paved a way for me to approach Bach with a different perspective. Thank you, Josh!
đđ»đđ»đđ»
( btw pls make a tutorial on Levitski's Waltz Op.2 czcams.com/video/UU1fFfiVvy8/video.html )
I've also found over time that screaming at the piano and mashing keys in a tantrum is not productive either.