Mr. Archer, you have a wonderful knack of asking very intelligent questions without acting like you know everything. Keep bringing people like Godman more often.
Mr. Archer, I am such a fan of your work. I feel like you are able to bring all these amazing people into my living room and life. Thank you, I am forever grateful for being in the (digital) presence of these positive people and clear thoughts.
Thanks for all your great work Mr. Godman. I've really enjoyed the works and books you have been involved in, you've helped get some beautiful and insightful information out to the English speaking world. Also I've recently discovered the mini-series on the notable devotees of Bhagavan you've made, so inspiring, again, thank you! Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Wow! I really enjoyed this interview!. When I was a little girl, I would sit on the floor in Sunday School and be utterly mesmerised by Bible stories my Sunday Day teacher, Miss Pickles would tell. Listening to David, felt like I was right back there!. Thanks David, Thanks Rick
there seems to have come a transition in Self-inquiry, where the understanding that the 'personal self' is just a learned belief...and refers to a false identity with the body and with 'doership'. As all of what lies in the present moment becomes seen as nothing more than a series of occurrences in a greater Wholeness, the illusion that there ever was a personal "I" responsible for anything falls away. What a relief. What a shift. No personal self to become enlightened. Meditation becomes a noticing of Wholeness in its subtle and lively forms, either with eyes closed or with eyes open. Walking about occurs in a simple knowingness that all is a play of the Wholenss.
Rick, thank you so much for this interview and all your work to bring this wisdom on the Self to all of us who are ready and hungry to hear it. David, this interview was very helpful. Bhagavan, Papaji, Maharraj all came alive to me when you spoke and your words also clarified some things. Thank you again both of you, many blessings and namaste.
I admit I have been lucky in that I was given the opportunity to spend quality time with some of the greatest advaita teachers in recent history. I love talking about them since, whenever I start to speak, I feel a great silence and joy. Sharing my memories of them is great satsang for me. That is one reason (see your previous comments) that I prefer to speak about these great beings, rather than dwell on my own more limited experiences.
Wow, I had just assumed the compiler of Be As You Are was some guy who lived with Ramana in the 1930s and had died long ago. It is a wonderful work. His organization of the teachings show a deep understanding of Ramana's teaching. I suggest people don't read any other.
Thank you so much Rick. I really value your time and effort you put into all these interviews. This one with David was especially interesting and insightful.
Thanks for listening and watching. Just checked in to see what sort of discussion was going on here. Glad to see that some people enjoyed and appreciated it.
Thank you very much David and Rick. At last someone who knows what he's speaking about and makes a clear difference between spiritual experience and Self-realization, a glimpse of the truth and liberation, an egomaniac and a true Guru. Om Tat Sat Om David
I am always most enthusiastic about recommending David Godman's book to others and am delighted that this interview was made available to us. Thanks guys.
David Godman I have always resonated with your work and presentation of Ramana's and Papaji's message. This interview was very helpful for me and clarified much about self inquiry. Thank you.
Mr. archer ....I got hooked to your site after watching my favourite Sri. M. I am so impressed by your way of interviewing those great souls. Love to contribute towards your wonderful mission in my own small way. sincerely appreciate your service. A great step by you towards global spiritual awakening. our love and support always assured Mr. archer
Thank you David for your reply and I agree my use of the word 'enlightened' was a bit over the top. I had forgotten you we're addressing the subject of lineage. As I am practicing regularly with self realisation being the goal, it was like the bottom dropping out of my effort, to hear there's no Guru whom I could visit if I ever do experience the demise of the mind. It's amazing that you having taken the time to reply. Totally indebted. Regards Brian
Did I say book? Books! All of David's books are first rate and I appreciate them all. Thanks, David, for all your hard work and persistence over the years.
A very good interview, ty. I'm glad David has reached youtube! He's a living encyclopedia of Ramana and it's sometimes nice to hear him talk of Ramana's life and teaching for a change.
may the lord bless you Mr Godman, thank you Mr Godman, for been a great person and kind hearted, you are an example of who a person should be doing in this world ,so that no one would feel out off place, the person who question your personality , should question their own self first before doing so to others, becausethey don't know what the other person have to go through in their life, but ask that person who they criticized and they find out that, what they think is not the same...more
Yes, I'm up for it. I enjoyed talking to you. I'll contact you again next year when I return to the States. My connection in India isn't good enough for this kind of interview.
Thanks for that tip. i really really have enjoyed many of your interviews and that you often ask the hard questions. Keep up the good work. We all profit immensely for your time and dedication. Much love!
In the wise words of Ramana himself:- 'The very nature of argument is to veil the truth. Since it is nothing but an art of illusion and imagination, it will delude and confuse the mind. Therefore, no one who has fallen into the dark hole of arguments will see the Sunlight, Self-knowledge.' - Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 524 'Wise people will never associate with those who are vainly argumentative, and who, instead of inwardly subduing themselves through knowledge of the righteous way, munch their empty mouths, due to their lack of any worthy aim.' - Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 328
Brilliant interview and flow of dialogue...Wow!!! Am on my third listening...It is truly precious to hear about Ramana, Papaji, Nisargadatta, and their experiences, it feels like coming home....am looking forward to interview # 2...Gratitude Ad Infinitum!!!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of advaita vedanta and the incredible teachers you've had contact with either directly or indirectly. Ramana Maharshi's teachings are salve for a distressed mind.
Happiness comes from the ego, being pampered, whereas sadness comes from these conditionings (Super ego) but it's the Spirit, that gives us the JOY! ...Joy is a singular!
Hello David, I have great respect for you and your work from a journalistic perspective, and I'm sure that many if not all the people that watch this exchange will be at the very least a touch jealous of the contact that you have had with a number of apparently enlightened beings who become some of the most influential spokespersons for the non-dual perspective.
This is my very first comment here.I just wanted to clear some of the views expressed here: 1.Reverend Eslam has commented: "Both men have little idea what constitutes a genuine guru. Perhaps one day they will." I know for sure that David has lived and moved with Genuine Gurus Like annamalai Swami ,for example and he certainly knows what he is talking about..For those interested,I warmly recommend the wonderful book-'Living by the words of Bhagavan' ,on the Life and Teachings of annamalai swami,a disciple of Sri Ramana maharshi. 2.Mike Rogers has said: "Sorry but I was struck with disbelief at the snobbery going on here from Godman". David has said that he has 'high Standards' and perhaps this is the reason why it gives this impression of 'snobbery'.Truly there is nothing amiss in what David has said.A true Guru is indeed a rarity and such a one is not easy to come by.He teaches more by his simple presence than through his words.
Ravi Neelakantan When you've sat in the presence of many true gurus, you have gained the requisite experience for understanding the difference between pretenders and the genuine articles. There is nothing snobbish about this. I'm grateful that David has been around and can tell us about his experience based judgment.
Apologies if you felt I was being discourteous. I wasn't even aware that I was interrupting. I am glad you appreciated the parts of the interview where I wasn't interrupting Rick.
Rick, I have been listening to your show with great interested for ages. I like the direct and honest approach that you bring to your guests. I love the teachings of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. I have books by all three and they have helped me immensely. I asked a question earlier that was marked as spam. I try here once again if that is OK.
A glimpse of the Self may be possible for many people. Sometimes it happens spontaneously, and sometimes in the presence of someone who is abiding as the Self. However, the glimpse will not stay if the mind still has unfulfilled desires and tendencies. The momentum of these desires will eventually cause the mind to rise again and cover up the experience.
I have experienced that power at Arunachala mountain, just been at the feet of the mountain something was happening to me, that was really not who am , yes been there at the Ashram was very powerful clearing me of all that is not me. David Godman may I say thank you for me reaching there,,,
I really loved the interview! Some great stories and insights. Thing i was missing here was that I wanted to hear some of his personal experiences: basically he was just replying all the questions by quoting someone or telling some story about someone. Even when rick directly asked David about his own experiences with self inquiry, he answered with some quotes. If there will be any next interview with him, try to press him a bit more to talk about HIS experiences with those sages and their teachings ;)
A astute observation. This is a style with ramana devotees . My guess is that they want to convey the original ramana mesg without there personal intrepretations or coloring. He is a messenger of the Self.
Amazing interview and riveting -- and you're in Fairfield -- I studied at UI and came to Fairfield and have friends I am sure you know. Thanks so much Rick!!! Nameste.
i posted this at the "why cremate" place but not many views there (where is anybody?) so thought this to be a good spot! everyone listen up and send some compassion david's way. Why? Because here he is---having close association with the top spiritual masters of all time (well....sort of) and of course having all of us seekers so jealous of that fact and what if---just What If? david is not enlightened. What if david has vrittis coming out of his ears? What if david still is seeking and asking "who the hell am i?" Just saying! HA!.....C'mon folks---humor is one of the keys...my favorite....and there is just too much seriousness out there on the path up and down the mountain! Love you david and keep on keeping on. damudra
Thanks. Usually I'm the one accused of interrupting and talking too much. I thought David was OK in that regard. I didn’t mind if he interrupted me occasionally. Karmically, I’ve got it coming!
This is the only occasion that Ramana Maharshi wrote directly about his own enlightenment, and the way it happened. It is interesting that he stresses the self-enquiry aspect, and that he points out that the 'I' which disappears in the moment of liberation is the same 'I' that sees a world external to itself.
Sure. I don't know why things are getting marked as spam. I'm not doing it. Could also ask your question in the forum on batgap (dot) com. David has been participating there.
Wonderful. Thank you Rick. You covered it very well.Unless vasanas are extinguished Self is not revealed. This is what all traditional scriptures say. I think that it is not done directly. Self Inquiry in course of time would help erasing vasanas
I replied to the questions I was asked. I am always happy to talk about Ramana and his teachings. If that doesn't interest you, then you came to the wrong interview. I wasn't asked about my own experiences, which may be what you mean by the 'now'.
I have spent my life in India recording, analysing and writing about the lives and teachings of Ramana Maharshi and the people who associated with him. I feel that someone needed to record this while there was a still a chance to do it in a reliable way. Apologies if you thought that this was just 'second-hand information'. You can't have a proper discussion of what these people taught and said unless there is a reliable record of of their lives and teachings.
A glimpse of the Self is something that is available to many people. It might happen in a seemingly random way, or it might happen in the presence of someone who is abiding as the Self. Such glimpses are almost invariably temporary because the outgoing tendencies of the mind have not been extinguished. Sooner or later they will reassert themselves and cover up the experience.
What has to happen is 'we have to mentally die'. I know this from an experience of reality I once had, before all the years of seeking and gurus. I had to leave Maharishi, the TM crowd, being a teacher and all that, many years ago because freedom is not about selective attachment - swopping an ordinary life for a "spiritual life". Its about coming to the end of having any agenda - to be completely done with being part of life of the mind. Giving up all attachments to and surrender of all the spiritual identities - all the great masters - everything. Emptiness of all motives, future plans, destinies, past history. My tree is cut but not fallen fully, just hanging in.
Rick read out the topics we had agreed to talk about at the beginning of the interview. We more or less stuck to that script, although we didn't get round to talking about some of the things I listed. Apologies if I picked topics that didn't interest you. They happened to interest me, which is why I suggested we talk about them.
I'm wondering what the point is of the discussion (about 5 minutes in) about the state Ramana was in. Each of us has our own experience of Truth in this very moment. Why not look into our own, living experience? Wouldn't that be more useful than mere speculation about what it was like inside the head of someone who died decades ago?
To say that Papaji is without earthly desires, but in his sixties he had a child with a woman in her twenties, when he was married, this is ridiculous.
Enquiring within Who is the seer? I saw the seer disappear leaving That alone which stands forever. No thought arose to say I saw. How then could the thought arise to say I did not see.' - Sri Ramana Maharishi
This discussion starting at 1:06 about gurus bad habits, I just can't say that since they are supposedly enlightened then I can overlook these bad habits. I might be able to learn something from them, but I can't respect them. I have my faults as well, but I am not a guru. And i don't expect a guru to be perfect. But I do expect them to not be adulterers, not be smokers, or meat eaters.
The Fruit Addict I'm okay with the idea that someone can be enlightened and flawed and do bad things... There's no perfection in the world. We exercise wisdom using limited bodies and minds. What I disagree with is the line, "everything they do comes from the Self so isn't bad". I will freely criticise anyone whose actions I disapprove of, guru or not - it's up to them to either justify themselves to me or ignore my judgement; it's not incumbent on me to obsequiously justify all that they do. Saying you can't respect a smoker or consider them a guru is as extreme a view as saying everything a guru does is perfect. You say you don't expect a guru to be perfect, yet you'll even disqualify them for smoking..!? Where do you set the bar? And don't you realise that's then a personal, relative judgement and therefore meaningless in this context? Why have some scale of moral virtue and say "a guru has to be above this point on the scale"? It makes no sense. Awakening is freedom from the self-other dichotomy; morality is a relative, subjective and slippery thing of the world that we try to negotiate. I wish it was that easy to tell who's enlightened! By your definition, Ned Flanders seems a strong candidate. Although I'm not sure he's a vegetarian... There's no reason to get trapped into thinking awakened = perfect. It just comes from the exotic myths, gods and cosmological systems of old religion. It's idealistic, and truth is beyond ideals.
+The Fruit Addict That's just the mind putting a bunch of conditions on what you believe you need to do to achieve something. Its not a cause and effect relationship. It is difficult deduce cause from effect in these spiritual discussions, meaning there is no one formula for everyone, if there seems to be a formula for you, then follow it, but to say it should apply to everyone would be incorrect. Nisargadatta smoked his brains out, so did Stephen Jourdain, Eckhart Tolle says he eats meat sometimes, lots of other examples of very wise teachers of overeating, eating meat, and over all being human. The human mechanism may change, or it may continue to do as it is conditioned to do. Again it is my experience that if you believe someone needs to be "perfect" implies he/she needs to be the perfect human, which is a trick of the mind to have you focused on effect instead of cause therefore taking you further and further away from yourself by putting more and more conditions on true seeing by pushing it further into the future. Its like me saying im annoyed at David Godman's crooked teeth therefore anything he says is BS , the mind will try to sell us these ideas, we dont have to buy them.
***** I agree with you that it's suspect when a guru says he can get away with anything cos of "crazy wisdom". Regarding morality, I do think there always has to be a philosophical element. Animals can't philosophise, so they are amoral, not "good". When a human awakens, they see through the separation to the ultimate unity, so they are no longer driven by egotism, but compassionate action still involves other factors, such as their worldview and philosophy. An awakened person would still have bodily drives to survive and reproduce, which might look "selfish" from the outside even though it would involve no egoic delusions. In the same way, if you were to judge an animal as selfish for engaging in sexual or meat-eating behaviour, you'd be totally wrong in that judgement, as there's no illusion of self there.
Ramana refused to let anyone record his voice. He had no objection to anyone taking photos or filming him, but hen always said 'no' when anyone asked to make an electronic recording of his voice.
Several people asked for permission to record his voice but he always refused. In those days recording equipment was big and heavy. No one could have got away with recording him secretly.
:) "Spiritual seekers have a very strange habit: they are always looking for a way to reach, attain,discover,experience, or realize the Self. They try many things because they cannot comprehend that they are already the Self. This is like running around looking for one's eyes with one's own eyes. Why should you imagine that it is some new experience to be discovered or found ?" ... Annamalai Swami page 292 of Living by the words of Bhagavan! David Godman's book itself says this ! One can read pages and even write them and yet think that some experience would liberate them !! :D LOL!
Andrew C. True ... but that looking can be reduced if teachers stop saying that one person has experience and another does not ... it just goes to show that the teacher does not understand that he has the experience !! That's how people perpetuate the hope that there is some new experience to be searched for !
You are boundless space So what's Up? The space inside and out of an empty Cup. Alas! Attached to the body you will not See. Finding it almost impossible to 'Just Be.' Too many distractions with objects called Things Addicted to the temporary pleasures they Bring Conditioned from childhood to material Greed Caught in a thought of some already sown Seed Competing and collecting but it will never be Enough Along the way you lost the simplicity and Love All the confusion, anger and Mistrust Has manifested in money, greed and Lust Oblivious to the reason of why we are Here Named and negated 'Good' becoming the Seer A tiny fragment from a great big Whole 'BANG!' went a thought and smashed out a Soul!
It happened to Ramana because he was ready. He had already done the work he needed in a previous life. The Self may pick someone to be enlightened, but the choice is restricted to those minds have already surrendered to it.
its interesting how we chase a particular state. which is opposite of enlightenment. this man is the one who is deluding himself and others. there is nothing to do. ever!!
In your conversation exchange about available recognised Gurus neither one mentioned Mooji, I'm not trying to put you on the spot David and I apologise if it seems that way. Wasn't Papaji Mooji's Guru? Doesn't that make Mooji an enlightened being, or at least a qualified master? Thank you in advance for any reply and thank you for your life's contribution to this amazing philosophy, one that has made my life safe. Totally indebted. Namaste. - Om ॐ
Just a practical observation. Maybe the interviewer could have a habit of muting his mic when not talking?:) it is a bit distracting. And maybe ask the person being interviewed to do the same?
I am of the opinion that full enlightenment is as rare as it always was. Papaji occasionally used to recite a list of people in Indian spiritual history who had attained full enlightenment, and it was always a small list. The other teachers have been with also had small lists. I don't buy into the idea that there is some evolution in consciousness and that as a result of it more and more people are attaining liberation.
lineage is a worldly thing, it's useless when liberation is being taught or handed down the source of lineage of every true guru is his/her own true nature, the Self, this is what gives him/her the authority to be a direction sign to others when a 'teacher' claims his/her affiliation with some lineage to support his/her authority, chances are he/she isn't the true guru, otherwise they would draw the authority from their own liberated state and not need external sanction for it Ramana himself is the poster child of a lineage-less guru
And it can give rise to some interesting possibilities, namely, that you can know pretty much anything you want to know. Not omniscience, which requires a celestial nervous system, but knowing just about anything one thing at a time.
When did Ramana give Papaji the all clear to teach or be a guru in his own right? Who stuck a certification tag on Ramana? Self-realization has its own certainty.
Rick sorry to be a pest but at 42.13 you mention a name, presumably sanskrit, for the ability to "experience" words. Papaji, according to David Godman had this ability. I cannot hear the word clearly on the recording and wondered if you could send it. Someone called "prajna8" offered to help but I cannot see his post here now. Thanks so much Rick for your endless good work.
There is no goal with meditation. The results speak for themselves. The simplicity of Baghwan Maharshi can only be experienced by practicing his simple formula of self inquiry. The rest of this conversation is nothing more than intellectual nonsense, actually detracting from a very simple and yet powerful man. A true Jnani, by the way, has established an actual separation from the body and wordly desires. Otherwise, the ego obviously still remains. Therefore, lust, sloth and other such troubles of the ego should not be afloat. Ramana also stated that a true Jnani does not proclaim that he is enlightened or realized. By labeling oneself as such, it is obvious that the ego remains. Self inquiry is just that, Self, inquiry. Noone is qualified to speak for the truest representation of enlightenment that this earth has known in a long time. That being the Maharshi himself.
+Matthew L All this is very true. But until the I-thought evaporates completely, it will need at times to be entertained :). Better watch then this "intellectual nonsense" than the infinite amount of crap we can find on Internet/TV etc don't you agree ? :) Love
Meditation isn't something we 'Do', meditation is what we, enter into! We must enter into the Turiya 'State' the forth state, it is that of 'Thoughtless Awareness' it is only in this state, which we truly grow! Watch a public program talk from the 80's from the Holy Mother, at the end of these talks She gives Self Realisation! As an 'Actulisation' Self Realisation is the Starting point of reality! 'Shri Mataji public programs 1980's' 1
Mr. Archer, you have a wonderful knack of asking very intelligent questions without acting like you know everything. Keep bringing people like Godman more often.
+Raj Singal That's 'cause I don't. Not by a long shot. Thanks! Will do.
He's really playing the devil's advocate
Mr. Archer, I am such a fan of your work. I feel like you are able to bring all these amazing people into my living room and life. Thank you, I am forever grateful for being in the (digital) presence of these positive people and clear thoughts.
Thanks Hobbs. I really appreciate the comment.
I want to compliment the interviewer, Rick Archer, for such a wonderful and intelligent interview.
Thanks for all your great work Mr. Godman. I've really enjoyed the works and books you have been involved in, you've helped get some beautiful and insightful information out to the English speaking world. Also I've recently discovered the mini-series on the notable devotees of Bhagavan you've made, so inspiring, again, thank you! Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Wow! I really enjoyed this interview!. When I was a little girl, I would sit on the floor in Sunday School and be utterly mesmerised by Bible stories my Sunday Day teacher, Miss Pickles would tell. Listening to David, felt like I was right back there!. Thanks David, Thanks Rick
there seems to have come a transition in Self-inquiry, where the understanding that the 'personal self' is just a learned belief...and refers to a false identity with the body and with 'doership'. As all of what lies in the present moment becomes seen as nothing more than a series of occurrences in a greater Wholeness, the illusion that there ever was a personal "I" responsible for anything falls away. What a relief. What a shift. No personal self to become enlightened. Meditation becomes a noticing of Wholeness in its subtle and lively forms, either with eyes closed or with eyes open. Walking about occurs in a simple knowingness that all is a play of the Wholenss.
Rick, thank you so much for this interview and all your work to bring this wisdom on the Self to all of us who are ready and hungry to hear it. David, this interview was very helpful. Bhagavan, Papaji, Maharraj all came alive to me when you spoke and your words also clarified some things. Thank you again both of you, many blessings and namaste.
I admit I have been lucky in that I was given the opportunity to spend quality time with some of the greatest advaita teachers in recent history. I love talking about them since, whenever I start to speak, I feel a great silence and joy. Sharing my memories of them is great satsang for me. That is one reason (see your previous comments) that I prefer to speak about these great beings, rather than dwell on my own more limited experiences.
Very excellent job to both of you, thank you!
Wow, I had just assumed the compiler of Be As You Are was some guy who lived with Ramana in the 1930s and had died long ago.
It is a wonderful work. His organization of the teachings show a deep understanding of Ramana's teaching. I suggest people don't read any other.
Thank you so much Rick. I really value your time and effort you put into all these interviews. This one with David was especially interesting and insightful.
Thank you...so very much
I am so greatful to be born in this land.... India is spiritual
Thanks for listening and watching. Just checked in to see what sort of discussion was going on here. Glad to see that some people enjoyed and appreciated it.
Thank you very much David and Rick.
At last someone who knows what he's speaking about and makes a clear difference between spiritual experience and Self-realization, a glimpse of the truth and liberation, an egomaniac and a true Guru.
Om Tat Sat Om David
I love and admire Robert, his life, his teachings, and the way he transmitted them. I wish I had had the opportunity to be with him in person.
I am always most enthusiastic about recommending David Godman's book to others and am delighted that this interview was made available to us. Thanks guys.
Only David should speak. The One without mind. Amen
David Godman I have always resonated with your work and presentation of Ramana's and Papaji's message. This interview was very helpful for me and clarified much about self inquiry. Thank you.
Mr. archer ....I got hooked to your site after watching my favourite Sri. M. I am so impressed by your way of interviewing those great souls. Love to contribute towards your wonderful mission in my own small way. sincerely appreciate your service. A great step by you towards global spiritual awakening. our love and support always assured Mr. archer
Thanks for the support and the recommendations
Thank you David for your reply and I agree my use of the word 'enlightened' was a bit over the top. I had forgotten you we're addressing the subject of lineage. As I am practicing regularly with self realisation being the goal, it was like the bottom dropping out of my effort, to hear there's no Guru whom I could visit if I ever do experience the demise of the mind.
It's amazing that you having taken the time to reply. Totally indebted.
Regards Brian
Did I say book? Books!
All of David's books are first rate and I appreciate them all. Thanks, David, for all your hard work and persistence over the years.
A very good interview, ty. I'm glad David has reached youtube! He's a living encyclopedia of Ramana and it's sometimes nice to hear him talk of Ramana's life and teaching for a change.
great interview, appreciated Godmans simplicity , humility and precision of language. he obviously has done his work
may the lord bless you Mr Godman, thank you Mr Godman, for been a great person and kind hearted, you are an example of who a person should be doing in this world ,so that no one would feel out off place, the person who question your personality , should question their own self first before doing so to others, becausethey don't know what the other person have to go through in their life, but ask that person who they criticized and they find out that, what they think is not the same...more
Very insightful information on Self Inquiry. Thank you for sharing.
Yes, I'm up for it. I enjoyed talking to you. I'll contact you again next year when I return to the States. My connection in India isn't good enough for this kind of interview.
This was wonderful! Thank you David, Thank you Rick.
It is useful to a seeker in spiritual journey.
Thanks for that tip. i really really have enjoyed many of your interviews and that you often ask the hard questions. Keep up the good work. We all profit immensely for your time and dedication. Much love!
In the wise words of Ramana himself:-
'The very nature of argument is to veil the truth. Since
it is nothing but an art of illusion and imagination, it
will delude and confuse the mind. Therefore, no one
who has fallen into the dark hole of arguments will
see the Sunlight, Self-knowledge.' - Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 524
'Wise people will never associate with those who are
vainly argumentative, and who, instead of inwardly
subduing themselves through knowledge of the
righteous way, munch their empty mouths, due to
their lack of any worthy aim.' - Guru Vachaka Kovai verse 328
I thought it was a great interview. We covered a lot of ground and I liked what we covered. I’d like to do another in a year or so, if you’re willing.
This interchange reveals one thing, you create your own reality or experience. A separate reality does not exist.
Excellent interview. Mr. Godman, clarified many rational points.
Brilliant interview and flow of dialogue...Wow!!! Am on my third listening...It is truly precious to hear about Ramana, Papaji, Nisargadatta, and their experiences, it feels like coming home....am looking forward to interview # 2...Gratitude Ad Infinitum!!!
Thank you, Gentlemen. A pleasure, as always!
Thanks very kindly for the interviews which Ive been tuning into sometimes since Hale Dwoskin interview when first found BATGAP. :-) :-) :-)
thanks very much to both of you
Thanks for spreading the word!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of advaita vedanta and the incredible teachers you've had contact with either directly or indirectly. Ramana Maharshi's teachings are salve for a distressed mind.
Happiness comes from the ego, being pampered, whereas sadness comes from these conditionings (Super ego) but it's the Spirit, that gives us the JOY! ...Joy is a singular!
"this is the common sense view" :-). I love David Godman. Thanks for this interview.
Hello David, I have great respect for you and your work from a journalistic perspective, and I'm sure that many if not all the people that watch this exchange will be at the very least a touch jealous of the contact that you have had with a number of apparently enlightened beings who become some of the most influential spokespersons for the non-dual perspective.
Thanks for the appreciative comment.
This is my very first comment here.I just wanted to clear some of the views expressed here:
1.Reverend Eslam has commented:
"Both men have little idea what constitutes a genuine guru. Perhaps one day they will."
I know for sure that David has lived and moved with Genuine Gurus Like annamalai Swami ,for example and he certainly knows what he is talking about..For those interested,I warmly recommend the wonderful book-'Living by the words of Bhagavan' ,on the Life and Teachings of annamalai swami,a disciple of Sri Ramana maharshi.
2.Mike Rogers has said:
"Sorry but I was struck with disbelief at the snobbery going on here from Godman".
David has said that he has 'high Standards' and perhaps this is the reason why it gives this impression of 'snobbery'.Truly there is nothing amiss in what David has said.A true Guru is indeed a rarity and such a one is not easy to come by.He teaches more by his simple presence than through his words.
Ravi Neelakantan When you've sat in the presence of many true gurus, you have gained the requisite experience for understanding the difference between pretenders and the genuine articles. There is nothing snobbish about this. I'm grateful that David has been around and can tell us about his experience based judgment.
Apologies if you felt I was being discourteous. I wasn't even aware that I was interrupting. I am glad you appreciated the parts of the interview where I wasn't interrupting Rick.
Rick, I have been listening to your show with great interested for ages. I like the direct and honest approach that you bring to your guests. I love the teachings of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. I have books by all three and they have helped me immensely. I asked a question earlier that was marked as spam. I try here once again if that is OK.
Nice get, Rick! Thanks so much for this interview!
David: I will reach out to you thru your website. Thx for coming here - really appreciate all your work!! Nameste.
A glimpse of the Self may be possible for many people. Sometimes it happens spontaneously, and sometimes in the presence of someone who is abiding as the Self. However, the glimpse will not stay if the mind still has unfulfilled desires and tendencies. The momentum of these desires will eventually cause the mind to rise again and cover up the experience.
Really enjoyed this, thank you!
Thanks for this Interview.
I have experienced that power at Arunachala mountain, just been at the feet of the mountain something was happening to me, that was really not who am , yes been there at the Ashram was very powerful clearing me of all that is not me. David Godman may I say thank you for me reaching there,,,
I really loved the interview! Some great stories and insights. Thing i was missing here was that I wanted to hear some of his personal experiences: basically he was just replying all the questions by quoting someone or telling some story about someone. Even when rick directly asked David about his own experiences with self inquiry, he answered with some quotes. If there will be any next interview with him, try to press him a bit more to talk about HIS experiences with those sages and their teachings ;)
A astute observation. This is a style with ramana devotees . My guess is that they want to convey the original ramana mesg without there personal intrepretations or coloring. He is a messenger of the Self.
David David for putting it out there.
Amazing interview and riveting -- and you're in Fairfield -- I studied at UI and came to Fairfield and have friends I am sure you know. Thanks so much Rick!!! Nameste.
Love your comment!
Thank you.
i posted this at the "why cremate" place but not many views there (where is anybody?) so thought this to be a good spot!
everyone listen up and send some compassion david's way. Why? Because here he is---having close association with the top spiritual masters of all time (well....sort of) and of course having all of us seekers so jealous of that fact and what if---just What If? david is not enlightened. What if david has vrittis coming out of his ears? What if david still is seeking and asking "who the hell am i?"
Just saying! HA!.....C'mon folks---humor is one of the keys...my favorite....and there is just too much seriousness out there on the path up and down the mountain!
Love you david and keep on keeping on. damudra
Thanks. Usually I'm the one accused of interrupting and talking too much. I thought David was OK in that regard. I didn’t mind if he interrupted me occasionally. Karmically, I’ve got it coming!
David Godman says "My I has high standards and will not be eliminated by just anyone!"
This is the only occasion that Ramana Maharshi wrote directly about his own enlightenment, and the way it happened. It is interesting that he stresses the self-enquiry aspect, and that he points out that the 'I' which disappears in the moment of liberation is the same 'I' that sees a world external to itself.
Thanx 4 Czech subs! Very good job!
Sure. I don't know why things are getting marked as spam. I'm not doing it. Could also ask your question in the forum on batgap (dot) com. David has been participating there.
Thank you _/\_ for doing this interview!!
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge of
Wonderful. Thank you Rick. You covered it very well.Unless vasanas are extinguished Self is not revealed. This is what all traditional scriptures say. I think that it is not done directly. Self Inquiry in course of time would help erasing vasanas
I replied to the questions I was asked. I am always happy to talk about Ramana and his teachings. If that doesn't interest you, then you came to the wrong interview. I wasn't asked about my own experiences, which may be what you mean by the 'now'.
I have spent my life in India recording, analysing and writing about the lives and teachings of Ramana Maharshi and the people who associated with him. I feel that someone needed to record this while there was a still a chance to do it in a reliable way. Apologies if you thought that this was just 'second-hand information'. You can't have a proper discussion of what these people taught and said unless there is a reliable record of of their lives and teachings.
A glimpse of the Self is something that is available to many people. It might happen in a seemingly random way, or it might happen in the presence of someone who is abiding as the Self. Such glimpses are almost invariably temporary because the outgoing tendencies of the mind have not been extinguished. Sooner or later they will reassert themselves and cover up the experience.
What has to happen is 'we have to mentally die'. I know this from an experience of reality I once had, before all the years of seeking and gurus. I had to leave Maharishi, the TM crowd, being a teacher and all that, many years ago because freedom is not about selective attachment - swopping an ordinary life for a "spiritual life". Its about coming to the end of having any agenda - to be completely done with being part of life of the mind. Giving up all attachments to and surrender of all the spiritual identities - all the great masters - everything. Emptiness of all motives, future plans, destinies, past history. My tree is cut but not fallen fully, just hanging in.
Rick read out the topics we had agreed to talk about at the beginning of the interview. We more or less stuck to that script, although we didn't get round to talking about some of the things I listed. Apologies if I picked topics that didn't interest you. They happened to interest me, which is why I suggested we talk about them.
Haven't gone yet. Next week.
I'm wondering what the point is of the discussion (about 5 minutes in) about the state Ramana was in. Each of us has our own experience of Truth in this very moment. Why not look into our own, living experience? Wouldn't that be more useful than mere speculation about what it was like inside the head of someone who died decades ago?
David: this jumped out and I had to stop the video to jot it down. Thank you for bringing it out in the video:
Thank you David!
Have you ever yourself listened to Ramanas voice?
I love your books and the videos on CZcams!
David Godman, he knows the Real Thing.
To say that Papaji is without earthly desires, but in his sixties he had a child with a woman in her twenties, when he was married, this is ridiculous.
Enquiring within Who is the seer? I saw the seer disappear leaving That alone which stands forever. No thought arose to say I saw. How then could the thought arise to say I did not see.' - Sri Ramana Maharishi
This discussion starting at 1:06 about gurus bad habits, I just can't say that since they are supposedly enlightened then I can overlook these bad habits. I might be able to learn something from them, but I can't respect them. I have my faults as well, but I am not a guru. And i don't expect a guru to be perfect. But I do expect them to not be adulterers, not be smokers, or meat eaters.
The Fruit Addict I'm okay with the idea that someone can be enlightened and flawed and do bad things... There's no perfection in the world. We exercise wisdom using limited bodies and minds. What I disagree with is the line, "everything they do comes from the Self so isn't bad". I will freely criticise anyone whose actions I disapprove of, guru or not - it's up to them to either justify themselves to me or ignore my judgement; it's not incumbent on me to obsequiously justify all that they do.
Saying you can't respect a smoker or consider them a guru is as extreme a view as saying everything a guru does is perfect. You say you don't expect a guru to be perfect, yet you'll even disqualify them for smoking..!? Where do you set the bar? And don't you realise that's then a personal, relative judgement and therefore meaningless in this context? Why have some scale of moral virtue and say "a guru has to be above this point on the scale"? It makes no sense. Awakening is freedom from the self-other dichotomy; morality is a relative, subjective and slippery thing of the world that we try to negotiate.
I wish it was that easy to tell who's enlightened! By your definition, Ned Flanders seems a strong candidate. Although I'm not sure he's a vegetarian...
There's no reason to get trapped into thinking awakened = perfect. It just comes from the exotic myths, gods and cosmological systems of old religion. It's idealistic, and truth is beyond ideals.
+The Fruit Addict That's just the mind putting a bunch of conditions on what you believe you need to do to achieve something. Its not a cause and effect relationship. It is difficult deduce cause from effect in these spiritual discussions, meaning there is no one formula for everyone, if there seems to be a formula for you, then follow it, but to say it should apply to everyone would be incorrect. Nisargadatta smoked his brains out, so did Stephen Jourdain, Eckhart Tolle says he eats meat sometimes, lots of other examples of very wise teachers of overeating, eating meat, and over all being human. The human mechanism may change, or it may continue to do as it is conditioned to do. Again it is my experience that if you believe someone needs to be "perfect" implies he/she needs to be the perfect human, which is a trick of the mind to have you focused on effect instead of cause therefore taking you further and further away from yourself by putting more and more conditions on true seeing by pushing it further into the future. Its like me saying im annoyed at David Godman's crooked teeth therefore anything he says is BS , the mind will try to sell us these ideas, we dont have to buy them.
***** I agree with you that it's suspect when a guru says he can get away with anything cos of "crazy wisdom".
Regarding morality, I do think there always has to be a philosophical element. Animals can't philosophise, so they are amoral, not "good".
When a human awakens, they see through the separation to the ultimate unity, so they are no longer driven by egotism, but compassionate action still involves other factors, such as their worldview and philosophy. An awakened person would still have bodily drives to survive and reproduce, which might look "selfish" from the outside even though it would involve no egoic delusions. In the same way, if you were to judge an animal as selfish for engaging in sexual or meat-eating behaviour, you'd be totally wrong in that judgement, as there's no illusion of self there.
Ramana refused to let anyone record his voice. He had no objection to anyone taking photos or filming him, but hen always said 'no' when anyone asked to make an electronic recording of his voice.
Several people asked for permission to record his voice but he always refused. In those days recording equipment was big and heavy. No one could have got away with recording him secretly.
:) "Spiritual seekers have a very strange habit: they are always looking for a way to reach, attain,discover,experience, or realize the Self. They try many things because they cannot comprehend that they are already the Self. This is like running around looking for one's eyes with one's own eyes.
Why should you imagine that it is some new experience to be discovered or found ?" ... Annamalai Swami page 292 of Living by the words of Bhagavan!
David Godman's book itself says this ! One can read pages and even write them and yet think that some experience would liberate them !! :D LOL!
Yes, but often they have to look before they realize that looking keeps the Self elusive. It's akin to leaving home to return and then find home.
Andrew C.
True ... but that looking can be reduced if teachers stop saying that one person has experience and another does not ... it just goes to show that the teacher does not understand that he has the experience !! That's how people perpetuate the hope that there is some new experience to be searched for !
One thing I would suggest is to match your EQ with that of the interviewee so that you mic is not louder than theirs.
You are boundless space So what's Up?
The space inside and out of an empty Cup.
Alas! Attached to the body you will not See.
Finding it almost impossible to 'Just Be.'
Too many distractions with objects called Things
Addicted to the temporary pleasures they Bring
Conditioned from childhood to material Greed
Caught in a thought of some already sown Seed
Competing and collecting but it will never be Enough
Along the way you lost the simplicity and Love
All the confusion, anger and Mistrust
Has manifested in money, greed and Lust
Oblivious to the reason of why we are Here
Named and negated 'Good' becoming the Seer
A tiny fragment from a great big Whole
'BANG!' went a thought and smashed out a Soul!
Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaya!
It happened to Ramana because he was ready. He had already done the work he needed in a previous life. The Self may pick someone to be enlightened, but the choice is restricted to those minds have already surrendered to it.
its interesting how we chase a particular state. which is opposite of enlightenment. this man is the one who is deluding himself and others. there is nothing to do. ever!!
In your conversation exchange about available recognised Gurus neither one mentioned Mooji, I'm not trying to put you on the spot David and I apologise if it seems that way. Wasn't Papaji Mooji's Guru? Doesn't that make Mooji an enlightened being, or at least a qualified master?
Thank you in advance for any reply and thank you for your life's contribution to this amazing philosophy, one that has made my life safe. Totally indebted.
Namaste.
- Om ॐ
Read his words and practice self inquiry. Avoid the noise and confusion of those only pontificating on true wisdom...
Just a practical observation. Maybe the interviewer could have a habit of muting his mic when not talking?:) it is a bit distracting. And maybe ask the person being interviewed to do the same?
I am of the opinion that full enlightenment is as rare as it always was. Papaji occasionally used to recite a list of people in Indian spiritual history who had attained full enlightenment, and it was always a small list. The other teachers have been with also had small lists. I don't buy into the idea that there is some evolution in consciousness and that as a result of it more and more people are attaining liberation.
The only way to develop dispassion for objects is to practise self enquiry
lineage is a worldly thing, it's useless when liberation is being taught or handed down
the source of lineage of every true guru is his/her own true nature, the Self, this is what gives him/her the authority to be a direction sign to others
when a 'teacher' claims his/her affiliation with some lineage to support his/her authority, chances are he/she isn't the true guru, otherwise they would draw the authority from their own liberated state and not need external sanction for it
Ramana himself is the poster child of a lineage-less guru
And it can give rise to some interesting possibilities, namely, that you can know pretty much anything you want to know. Not omniscience, which requires a celestial nervous system, but knowing just about anything one thing at a time.
I'm not sure why this comment has been flagged as spam, it's a valid point.
Robert Adams on wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Adams_%28spiritual_teacher%29
When did Ramana give Papaji the all clear to teach or be a guru in his own right? Who stuck a certification tag on Ramana?
Self-realization has its own certainty.
Rick sorry to be a pest but at 42.13 you mention a name, presumably sanskrit, for the ability to "experience" words. Papaji, according to David Godman had this ability. I cannot hear the word clearly on the recording and wondered if you could send it. Someone called "prajna8" offered to help but I cannot see his post here now. Thanks so much Rick for your endless good work.
Has it been? I don't see an indication of that, and I didn't mark it.
There is no goal with meditation. The results speak for themselves. The simplicity of Baghwan Maharshi can only be experienced by practicing his simple formula of self inquiry. The rest of this conversation is nothing more than intellectual nonsense, actually detracting from a very simple and yet powerful man. A true Jnani, by the way, has established an actual separation from the body and wordly desires. Otherwise, the ego obviously still remains. Therefore, lust, sloth and other such troubles of the ego should not be afloat. Ramana also stated that a true Jnani does not proclaim that he is enlightened or realized. By labeling oneself as such, it is obvious that the ego remains. Self inquiry is just that, Self, inquiry. Noone is qualified to speak for the truest representation of enlightenment that this earth has known in a long time. That being the Maharshi himself.
+Matthew L All this is very true. But until the I-thought evaporates completely, it will need at times to be entertained :). Better watch then this "intellectual nonsense" than the infinite amount of crap we can find on Internet/TV etc don't you agree ? :) Love
Franck-
You are right. As I delve further into self-inquiry my ego has moments where it gets the better of me...lol
Namaskar
Meditation isn't something we 'Do', meditation is what we, enter into! We must enter into the Turiya 'State' the forth state, it is that of 'Thoughtless Awareness' it is only in this state, which we truly grow! Watch a public program talk from the 80's from the Holy Mother, at the end of these talks She gives Self Realisation! As an 'Actulisation' Self Realisation is the Starting point of reality! 'Shri Mataji public programs 1980's' 1
The gold standard, indeed.