Level Design Workshop: Solving Puzzle Design
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2017
- In this 2016 GDC talk, Ubisoft's Jolie Menzel explains what a puzzle is in the level design space, and explores techniques to create and refine puzzles that will elevate the player's experience in a given level.
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43:03 • “So remember: puzzles are fun for the player, not the designer. Don’t get super excited about feeling clever - just make a good experience.”
Such good advice, ah!
You all probably dont care at all but does any of you know a way to log back into an Instagram account??
I somehow forgot my login password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
"Think about it."
I seriously only just realised this.
This talk is a really good starting point for puzzle designer, thank you. Her laugh is adorable :)
4:02 I like this. Yes, games are designed to make you feel powerful. But no genre makes me feel more brain powerful than solving puzzles.
This applies to any game where your abilities don't change but your skills do. Between the A, B, and C variants of celeste's levels I improve but the character I am controling doesn't unlock or improve abilities.
Puzzle games are the most obvious example though. Going from trying to solve simple block pushing/snake movement simple puzzles in can of wormholes to climbing on top of the level and slicing off bits of yourself to use as terrain to help you soar across huge gaps feels amazing. Beginning the real meta-puzzles that require alternate solutions to previous levels, manipulating the spaceships the game takes place in, and even more hidden mechanics the game saves for its 11th hour is just transcendent feeling.
For anyone struggling to solve the puzzle of Jumpy J at 5:15 ; the researcher Menzel talks about is called Jean Piaget.
Great talk! You can tell she has a passion for that she's talking about :)
Very valuable talk. Thanks! :D
the awkward laughs make this such a charming talk
This Talk has been extremely informative and well presented. Thank you very much!
Wonderful talk! Thank you so much.
Tremendous talk. Thank you.
A puzzle can have more than one solution and can be competitive. Many great puzzle games in fact are. Puzzles also don't need to be about a sense of accomplishment but can just be an interesting exploration of an idea or system.
Personally I get a sense of accomplishment when I put effort to understand complex ideas and systems, like difficult integrals or differential equations in a non-game related example.
Great Talk!
Half Life 2 is a good example of a FPS with puzzle elements during action and during calm settings.
To save a bunch of research time, can you describe any specific examples or moments?
Great talk. Thanks!
6:47 that would be a fun story of discovering the solution, but there are two pictograms there which spell it out before you can discover it on your own.
Great talk.
good talk! super informative
Loving the talk just because of your personality, humble and smiling ! :)
Grate video, its comment for Andrew
Are there steps or points that we can follow/take to create a level with compound difficulties? (For example, having a puzzle with an easy, medium, and hard solution to the puzzle, each of which giving the player a different reward.) I'm looking to create a situation that can be testing or challenging to certain players, yet casual to those who just look to enjoying the playthrough.
well its important to note that these cant all offer the same reward/outcome, as the more experienced players will also find the easy solution. something that comes up a few times in baba is you and its custom levels is [spoiler but ill be vague] having two solutions to achieve different goals by having you sacrifice material necessary to solve in one way in order to be able to attempt it the other way. (for a specific example, see the level "booby trap". huge spoilers though)
You could look at anything from Zachtronics to see an example of what you’re maybe shooting for. It’s less about puzzle solving and more about problem solving though.
Can of wormholes does this a bit in its endgame. With several puzzles having alternate solutions needed for some meta progression. Some games get you to try and optimize move numbers or have some extra collectibles set aside for those who can find them. For instance, in a level where you teach the player to jump over barriers you had boxed them in with before you might have a extra star located way up on a high wall. Obvious but impossible to reach unless you know how to wall climb infinitely. Obviously these types of solution will be different for every type of game but, the answer is you just have to try a bunch of stuff and see what sticks.
Hmm. This got me thinking about MSX2 Metal Gear, of all things, and why some of its "challenges" are frustrating and badly designed. The (semi-)final boss is a puzzle boss, and you need to know the exact sequence in which to put C4 on its legs to defeat it. But the sequence is 16 elements long, and the game never tells you the last one. Which means that, even with the best conditions, you have only 50% chance of getting it right and succeeding if you're playing blind - which is unfair.
I guess Hideo Kojima looked at how similar uncertainties work in action flicks ("did I get it right? YES I got it right at the last second, damn I'm awesome!"), but failed to see that it wouldn't work in an interactive medium where the pacing and the outcomes aren't rigorously scripted. He made the same mistake with the infamous keycards that you have to flick through while the guards are coming at you: it's cool to see a movie character get the right key at the last moment, but actually being that character - and not even getting a cool dramatic scene if you fail and die, it's just "beep boop, game over, press f5 to continue" - is frustrating.
I guess it that boss fight was remade nowadays, the devs would do something similar to what Valve did with Portal 2 endgame: whichever portal you fire last, it'll work and trigger the final cutscene. So you would think that you only have a 50% chance of getting the sequence right, but actually it wouldn't matter - the TX-55 blows up either way and you feel lucky :) (Online guides would spoil that anyway though...)
Just some notes...
6:12
8:35
16:55 Mmh, haven't seen that yet. Will have to launch the game again. :P
whats the name of the game .. i cant seem to catch it >.< :/
@@noobpenguin5710 The Witness. One of the best puzzle games IMO
I'd be interested to see what Menzel would have to say about games like Getting Over It, and the idea of being kind(unkind) to the player. Part of me wonders about the balance you have to strike about being "fair," and producing a satisfying challenge. Foddy mentions in the game how he often he created a hard portion of the level, but instead of making it easier for the player, stuck with it as a test of skill and determination. Part of the thrill, at least imo, of solving things is reaching conclusions without the game handing you too much information e.g. obvious camera pans, popups, map arrows etc. It feels like players, in the game world in general, are almost catered to so much in that sense that we've lost our ability to think laterally.
Quite the opposite. Getting Over It challenges a completely different kind of skill than puzzle games do. Puzzle games are about THINKING the solution, not executing it. Making the execution frustrating doesn't aid the puzzle.
Making the challenge in Getting over it more difficult, however, does, because that's the game.
The target public of games like Getting Over It is very small. Not that it's bad, you're just going for a niche instead of a broader public. Balancing difficulty you're going to get a broader audience but also going to have a lot of competition.
So the heterogenous verbs are like having the key and looking for the lock and the homogenous ones are like coming across a lock and trying to figure out what is the key.
I'm not sure that's an accurate analogy because it kinda sounds like the same thing worded differently. In both her homogeneous and heterogeneous cases you might already have the key or might need to figure out what the key is. It's more of a this verb is always used in the same way (the hook bars) or this verb is used in unique situations of a particular context.
In both cases, the key could be the hook you know.
hmmm We're saying the same thing. When I said "having the key" I meant knowing the key's function and that it'd work in that context (and of course, actually having it/being able to use it), but looking for where to use it.
The verb being used in unique situations is like finding the lock/obstacle and not knowing how to solve it/bypass it.
I wasn't arguing with her, I was just elaborating. I think you misunderstood me?
Don't be a Sherlock...... Golden! XD
Wow this comment for Andrey
As a level designer I define a puzzle as such: A puzzle is a presentation of the alignment process of things purposely placed in misalignment.
so cute and smart!
I like this video. No pun intended. 🤭
Estaria mas bueno si tuviera traduccion al español
gaelpro127 aprende inglés
Aprende a volar >:v
Maybe a good soul will translate the subtitle.
And don't mind the yankees, they suck, right?
ZoidbergForPresident ¿A que te refieres con que "no les importan el yankee que chupan" ?
Sorry I'm not fluent in Spanish but you were asking about the yankee comment?
I meant the persons who require of others to be fluent in their language, because haegemony. :P
Huh? Ubisoft did Portal?
wat
I think it's just an example from the video for click bait
Yes.
It's misguiding indeed, not very fair.
Portal was made by valve. Portal is only an example because is one of the best puzzle game ever.
Methinks puzzles should not be an obstacle to hinder progression, rather an obstacle in which rewards players who overcome it... but can be bypassed when progressing through the game.
There is nothing worse when a game forces you to solve a puzzle only for you to get stuck, turn the game off and never play it ever again... or look up a guide and basically cheat your way through the game.
Onimusha? Really? I had no idea that game was so puzzle heavy. I thought it was a game where you chop things up and that's it... because to me, thats all games need. I'm one of the few people who thought Devil May Cry 2 was a better game than Devil May Cry 1 due to the absence of puzzles.
I just want to play games where I cut/shoot everything that moves to make progress, those are the games I enjoy the most.
Terry 309 ah, like fruit ninja!
I suppose that's a more subjective goal. I can't imagine a way portal would be better if you could cheat your way out of your puzzles in the game.
Terry 309 Onimusha wasn't really puzzle heavy though lol. Devil May cry definitely are not puzzle heavy, more of just HnS. I think Darksiders is another good one.
Well Portal is purely a puzzle game so if puzzles are all the game has then yeah I suppose they have to hinder progression.
I'm just sick and tired of action games that throw puzzles at you to stop you from making progress. It's one of the things that annoys me about Darksiders and games of that ilk, I just wanna hit things, I don't want to spend half an hour figuring out to get to the next room, I want to force my way to the next room.
I feel such great awkwardness from her... good job... no sarcasm there.
don't do your player go search for a video of how pass
Angry birds is not a puzzle game.
If your category definition leads you to believe angry birds is a puzzle game, then you definition is just wrong.
This is so uncomfortable to watch...
What made it uncomfortable?
I could watch it, but I can't listen to that valley girl talk through an almost closed mouth.
So don't?
@@S590573 how would you know it's uncomfortable to watch until you watch it...
That's a mean thing to say.
Too simple and she just laughs too much.
Its ok to be happy but it is a 1 hour talk that could have been 30 minuts or maybe less.