Puppets & Cats, Elements Revealed in the Deltarune Sweepstakes
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2023
- What did the Spamton Sweepstakes reveal about Deltarune's Element System? What is Death/Scythe? What is Dark/Star? And most importantly, is Elements 6 Cats?
Timestamps pending.
Hyperlinks pending:
The voice of Jevil was ZeDynamo from Hell In a HandbasketFind his contact info here: zedynamo?lang=en
Watch Hell in a Handbasket on Twitch here: / hellhandbasket
The voice of Spamton was Evan aka Everude! You can find his channel here: / @everudetv
However! Most of his Spamton work was him guess starring on his friend's channel. You can find that channel here: / walteryosmite
For the Deltarune plays specifically you can find...Part 1 here: / 1538697011
Part 2 here: / 1538697073
Part 3 here: / 1538697145
If twitch eats the vods, there's also a clip of his Spamton here: / bovinemagnificentchoug... - Hry
A̷͚͖̳͇̮̦̳̾͝a̵̛̞̼̭̞̯̥̦̝̘̙̪̅̍͋͑̌̑̄̔̓̄͘͝ā̶̧̛̹̹͓̙̱͖̩̱̟͚̯̤̿̂̆̇̀̓̓͛̋̈́͘͜͜͝͠à̸̰̺̬̟̓̄̒̔̈̉̃̚͝a̸̻̝͚̠͈̱̔̃̄͛̿̃a̶̝͑͋̐̕u̸̺̞̝̗̗̺̳͉̗͕̼̫̜̿̀̔͗́͐̈́̏̈̑̀́̃̏ͅͅġ̷͈͙͚̬̜͔̈́ḣ̵̤̤̲̝̜̳́ The answer to why this is late is "that one image of the Gaster conspiracy board that was only on screen for like a few seconds at 10:12"
Imma need a bit to fix the subtitles, and the timestamps, and the many other tiny little things that aren't the video itself. Sorry fam.
Aaaugh
Ok what do u think Hyperlink Blocked is?
Out of curiosity, how does each character act according to you if they were to drop into a dark world?
Do you think Chara would be dark/star based?
Whao
@Spamton G Spamton™ gimme
Clearly Chaos has to be Scythe, because that's what you use to harvest wheat to make bread, and then to cut that bread in half. Halved bread = Chaos. It's perfect.
big brain time
How do smart people like you think of this stuff.
@@kkotheracountnstuff8209 At first I noticed that the word Chaos was used twice, and so I started wondering if there was a connection I could make between them. Nothing came to me for Death, but when I thought of Scythe, I thought of cutting, and that made me notice that "half bread" could refer to bread that had been cut. Only as I was already typing it out did I remember that scythes were useful not only for cutting bread, but for harvesting crops such as wheat (a much more logical purpose), and so I tweaked the joke to add in my accidental discovery that made it like twice as clever :D
Basically, I love playing around with words in silly ways, and so my mind is always looking for these sorts of connections in the background. Then once I find one, I can put my full attention on it. It's really fun to do :D
@@riluna3695 wow that is preety interesting
I’ve never heard of half of bread being chaotic. Where does that come from? It sounds really interesting!
Something important about Dark/Star that I think you missed is its connection to Determination. Determination can create fountains, which represent Dark, and can create save points, which represent Star. And as well, the Titans are depicted as massive beings of darkness, covered in stars.
This further reinforces it as Hopes/Dreams of course, since those were connected with Determination in Undertale.
good catch man
also Dark Candy, which is star-shaped. neat detail i think
Oh yeah, I didn't even think about Dark Candy. And the darkners in your inventory or on your head turn into little stars when arriving from the light world.
So like [Light/Thunder] would be [Heaven] or something, then [Hopes/Dreams] would be [Determination]
Determination in general seems to be represented with Star imagery.
If Gaster does end up being a cat I will be extremely saddened if you don't post a video of you flipping a biscuit
what if Gaster is Seam, who has been kindly keeping those shadow crystals for us
Gaster being a cat would be brilliant.
@@Bongetta
But then he couldn't be "skeleton Tumblr sexyman daddy"
@@SeanTxty nah, he wouldn't hide in plain sight. I sooner buy that "Gaster" shattered long ago and that the evil he turned into is many pieces all over, as everyone
@@Ambipie shattered? shattered and farttered?
4:23 I love these cats, please tell them they're being good cats
I would but they're currently climbing on my keyboard trying to steal my food.
@@HalfBreadChaos so Normal cats
@@dravendarkplays9607 Yep! Haha.
@@dravendarkplays9607 as a cat owner I can say no cat is normal
@@HalfBreadChaos PET THEM PET THEM PET THEM PET THEM PET THEM PET THEM PET THEM
Interestingly enough, if Gaster really turns to be deeply related to Element 6, it could match reeeeally well with the whole idea of "Manipulation", "pulling the strings" and "being in control", taking into account the whole "goner creator" at the start of chapter 1 and how chapter one SAVE file screens had someone talk to you when you messed with the files by copying or erasing it.
Alternatively, he might just be with Alphys in the Mew Mew Kissy Cutie club-
lol
i like to think that undertale gaster is weird and mysterious, and deltarune gaster is just some guy
Honestly the connection being just some anime seems like something Toby would do
Mew Mew's super power is literally mind control, so that's how you know Toby plans every little detail.
Imagine if Gaster ends up just being Mew Mew
3:13 HE GREW AN EXTRA SET OF ARMS?!
XD Oops! One of those bugs finally snuck past me.
That's right. I was Zenyatta all along.
I see
i noticed that too, however im month late
@Spamton G Spamton™ * Do _you_ want to try your own [[specil]]?
Don’t mind me, just adding this to my HBC lore that they can grow an extra pair of arms when they want.
I think we have to pay more attention to Everyman. Everyman first appears in Reaper Bird's attack, and now think about it. [Death/Scythe] And the butterflies in it's attack also symbolise *death*
Ooh good point. "Reaper" bird. Like the Grim Reaper who wields a Scythe. I could see it.
He's also literally EVERYWHERE FOR NO REASON! There must be some reason other than reference.
Aren't the butterflies in the Reaper Bird's Everyman attack symbolism for death too?
I have a crazy theory with everyman and gaster
@@doom64hunter YES! THATS WHAT I FORGOT!
If stars were to be put together with death, it may be an analogy for useless or false hope/happiness. Scary to think about tbh…
Death/Star. Did you really just accidentally make a Star Wars reference in your comment discussing the nature of elemental pairs?
So a bit like the "stars" in the underground, that try to act like stars but very much arnt, instead being a reminder that they're stuck in the underground forever. Kinda like a tomb... which also kinda makes the underground represent death if you look at it from that angle. A giant tomb, a safe haven turned into a mausoleum. The entirety of a species trapped in one place, doomed to slowly fade away like a candle slowly burning all the air inside a sealed box. Only kept lit up by fake stars and fading hope.
@@numbertumbers529 lol I didn’t even think of it that way
When I heard Dark/Star, my first thought was actually the SAVE points in both games, which shine and look like a star, and are constant like them, shining against the "Darkness" of the world around, and I also would like to point out that the first SAVE in Deltarune in the dark world states that it is "The light only you can see", which means, if the light element stated at sweepstakes is actually referring to holy, that the Star could actually be referring to the "light inside your soul" (perhaps Determination)?
A little more out there but I also find there to be a lot of religious symbolism around Kris related to "The Devil/Demons", specifically their desire to be more like the Dreemurrs by using a red horns head band, an object closely related to them which ties into the concept of dark worlds/Dark element (and also the entire being possessed thing, the SOUL/Player likely being compelled to the dark worlds and desiring to dream like kris at class, and may also be related to escapist gaming symbolism a bit), which (again this is mostly rambling at this point) might tie into the conflict and prophesied mission to banish "The Angels Heaven", related to the Angel which is seemingly a holy figure in Deltarune's religion.
I feel like i'm missing some critical parts of this theory because i'm tired but it's out there I guess? Also I really love your content it's the perfect thing to decend into madness to at midnight and filled with things I probably wouldv'e never thought of twice
Kris is also called Lightbringer
@@angelnati8297 adding onto that, Satan is known as Lightbringer. What is Gaster's number? 666.
Also,
Kris can, therefore, summon both "dark" - through the form of dark fountains, and "star" - the way you mention it
My first thought was so obvious that nobody else has considered it seriously. I'm of course referring to The Original Starwalker.
Dark Star is for Fawful
boosting the engagement for the algorithm gods
Participating
Undertale's SAVE points are stars and all "fill you with determination" (hope). Saving and continuing even against seemingly unbeatable odds (see: Flowey, Asriel fights) seems to be important and connected to hope. If Star is Hope then Dark has to be Dream. Dreams must be "giving up" so to speak. Letting a hope (light) remain a fantasy (dark) is a dream. This is why the Game Over screen is called Darkness Falls, you've given up hope (determination to make dreams a reality). In a meta sense, Toby making Deltarune after all these years is a prime example of using hope/determination to pull reality out of a dream. Deltarune came out of a dream according to him.
Tangent here but Toby has said in the past that his favorite Touhou character was Yukari Yakumo. The dichotomy between dreams and reality is a major motif in Touhou and the official story/music CD "Changeability of Strange Dream" (2004) reminds me a lot of Deltarune. The main thesis there is that reality and dreams aren't different at all and that they both come from each other. One of the characters in that story, Merry, is clearly a younger Yukari and the song "Border Between Dreams and Reality" is such a fitting story/music combo. It must have inspired him since he's such a fan.
Reminds me of that cryptic tweet Toby posted long ago: "The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet."
Also, something about a song called Penumbra Phantasm?
@@Patrick11nf Maaaan, Light World and Dark Worlds together really sound like it'd simply be Undertale... Tobyy is it Undertale?????
Also night falls ~ evening star standing in parallels with darkness falls (not that it has parallels in a musical sense), one of yukari's themes from the fighting games (also the full version of the theme is on the cd you were talking about)...I always jokingly say that yukari will be a boss in deltarune or gets referenced one way or another besides thunderplane's hat
@@davity9000 Fighting Yukari or someone equal to Yukari sounds impossible to win
My big fear from when all the sweepstakes stuff was coming out was that Gaster would turn out to be an egg.
His head? Cracked big egg. His hands? Smaller eggs. His body? Eggs in a trenchcoat.
Eggs were such a thing in the sweepstakes.
I would imagine Dark/Star would be “Without the dark of night, stars wouldn’t shine as bright” or the motif of Dreams and Nighttime
Dark Star is for Fawful
Going further on the "Darkners are dreams" connection, there's also the prophecy at the start of the game. The two voices say
A: It was a LEGEND of HOPE
B: It was a LEGEND of DREAMS
A: It was a LEGEND of LIGHT
B: It was a LEGEND of DARK
This potentially implies not only that Darkners are associated with dreams, but that Lightners are associated with hope. Both of those make sense in terms of how the worlds are portrayed in relation to each other. The Dark worlds allow Lightners to do things that they would never be able to do in the Light world, but ultimately things from the Dark World cannot affect things from the Light World, just like how dreams can't really hurt us. (The only time this isn't true is when Kris/Susie/Noelle aka other Lightners attack Berdley in the dark world.) Meanwhile, the darkners are unable to change the world they live in on their own. Only Lightners can change the world (either of them) so Lightners represent hope.
If the Dark worlds are associated with dreams, then Gerson's bench quote about looking for ideas for his fantasy/adventure series in his "dreams" gets a bit more suspicious. We know he was a historian of the Light world, but what if he was also a historian of the dark worlds? And people just assumed his books were fantasy because of how odd they were? It could be that those books at the top of the library will be Gerson's stories, which will provide information about the Dark worlds.
This comment is incredible
Wow, great comment! I've also been trying to piece together stuff concerning those quotes... together with their use in Undertale, as well.
While hoping & dreaming may seem synonymous in general, "Hope" tends to be more grounded in reality; what you hope will happen, meaning it has to at least be possible IRL.
Meanwhile, "dreaming" of something (in the conscious sense) can indeed be something you hope will happen, but tends to be a lot less likely, or even a fantasy.
You "hope" you can run a company one day, or at least make decent income.
You "dream" of getting a job you absolutely love that never feels like working, or becoming a ruler of your country.
And then of course, there's the consciousness factor; you don't tend to actively hope in your sleep, but you certainly may dream.
"Hopes & Dreams" are associated a lot with Asriel. But separate the terms, & Chara (the first fallen human) was quite often talked about with "hope"!
"The King and Queen treated the human child as their own./The underground was full of hope."
"You have the same feeling of hope in your eyes (as Chara did)"
And as we've seen from both Undertale in-game canon, & the supplemental material (including the discontinued Undertale Alarm Clock: Winter Season text), Chara seemed more pragmatic & technically precise, while Asriel was more emotional.
Chara was grounded in reality, learning from things that happened to/around them, & being driven by those facts.
Asriel, like so many other monsters, dreamed of reaching the Surface (at the time, something seen as potentially impossible).
Chara brought hope, because they showed that union between the two "worlds" could be possible. Turned the dreams into possibility, hence now hopes.
And well, Asriel "Dreemur (Dreamer)." ;3
And it's interesting to consider the actions you can do in the final battle against Asriel:
Hope: Heals 1 HP, and reduces damage taken by 1 for the next turn.
Dream: Heals 4 HP, and fills the inventory with Last Dreams, which heals 17 HP when consumed.
So, Hoping softens the blows you may receive, while still pragmatically expecting to suffer them.
Meanwhile, Dreaming fills your emptiness & heals you, like a soothing escape.
(Also, one more interesting thing: The other character who prominently mentions both "Hopes & Dreams" a great many times (so much that Toby made sure she mentions them at least once in every gameplay variation, if I remember right) is Undyne, who in her Undying form, ends up fighting for the fate of "Monsters, Humans, Everyone", & bridges the gap between the Surface & Underground beings (Light & Dark?) with her abnormally high amount of Determination.
And it's interesting that, in Deltarune, Kris is capable of trying to tell (that version of) her about the Dark World in both chapters, then slashes the van's tires & leaves the door open at the end of Chapter 2, perhaps in hopes that she might end up there too!)
I just realized Seam would probably be puppet/cat. I wonder if this game is gonna be full of cats like Undertale was full of dogs. We already have Seam, Spamton, Pizzapants, Clover, Catty and her family, & Bratty's house full of cats. I don't know how many cats Clover counts as.
Edit: Oh, you already talked about Seam. Seam's mysterious nature is made all the more suspicious by the part in Undertale where Flowey (while shapeshifting his face to look like each thing he mentions) say "Monsters... humans... everything!" & when he says "everything", his face looks like the eyes(?) on Seam's button. But maybe Flowey was just referring to Darkners. Still weird in general.
CLOVER IS A CAT?
SPAMTON IS A CAT?
@@gamingcookierealyeah they're a cat.
@@psyclessno. That was a mistake on the commenter's part.
@@psycless he's not a cat, but since elements are paired his puppet element is still paired with cat
I just have some insight on why the soul/color pairing is pretty likely, in addition to all the already exsisting themes of soul color in undertale, in deltarune, the thing that allows susie to use RED buster in boss fights is your soul shining light upon her will (or something like that), further linking the 2
When Kris uses Courage, Toby even remembered to have everyone flash the same color as Bravery.
Huh, orange was the only missing soul mode in Undertale, wasn't it? Since the Mew Mew fight added light alongside the normal red, right? Then again, there were always blue and orange attacks, even if the blue never matched with the soul. Well, neither does Mew Mew's soul mode either, apparently. Oh well. Huh, if we go through all the vanilla UT soul modes with the secret bosses, plus Courage, is the light blue soul just gonna go unrepresented altogether? Since it doesn't look like we'll have blue attacks.
@@petruciosxd1374 It was actually both light blue and orange that were missing in UT, which since there's 7 chapters, 7 secret bosses, 7 soul modes
@@therealchaosguy Well again, the thing is... There's a couple complications, and it all makes me wonder _when_ exactly these modes could show up, too.
There's red as default, blue for the skeletons, green for Undyne, purple for Muffet, and yellow for Mettaton and Alphys, that's uh, normal, and they all the modes are connected to and referenced by the dead humans.
But then, there's light blue _attacks_, which line up with the light blue soul, and orange attacks, which fit with the orange soul. Their gimmicks are so accurate to patience and bravery that it surely isn't a coincidence, even if the colors don't actually match (even before the colorblind patch), guess since they're not actual soul modes.
A little weird for there to be outliars like that, but at the same time, sure, I do think it checks out... Until the Switch version mucked things up, ever so slightly as it may be. Now, obviously your soul turns red and blue because it's on the Switch, that's the gimmick, but... it _is_ still light blue. Again, not the actual, indentical color, which ain't unlikely to matter, might be the smoking gun, but even so, that mode still revolves around timing, for precielsy when to move the soul parts. That sai however, it obviously isn't nearly as clear cut as "don't move at all and let the attack go through you."
Other than that, it depends on how much the order of the secret bosses might matter... People speculate whether Jevil is supposed to be analogous to Sans in the grand scheme of things, and like Spamton, we'll get modes in the reverse order of Undertale bosses, specifically in the genocide route (in terms of inspiration for the characters I mean, since naturally Mettaton NEO never _actually_ fights, but we know Mettaton introdcues yellow), like how King and Queen share some similarities to Asgore and Mettaton (weell alright it is largely her theme being a reference to "Attack of the Killer Robot" but uh there is some stuff) which _would_ be the reverse order from Undertale.
Whatever the order of modes may be, if it's based off of Undertale, we have the default for Toriel, blue for Papyrus, green for Undyne, purple for Muffet, yellow for Mettaton and then Asgore uses both blue and orange attacks while Sans uses both blue things like Papyrus but neither of them introduce those to the game.
Therefore, if it is based on that order, where would blue and orange fit in? Would it be like, at the very end? 'Cause the only way to fit light blue into the order itself is to either reference Mad Mew Mew (which is uh, after Mettaton EX, although Mad Dummy is before Undyne) or give the boss potentially analogous to Papyrus two different modes. Naturally there could just be no order being referenced like that, we might see dark blue next for all we know, but that's kinda it, we _don't_ know.
I wonder if we'll get the Pure Crystal with 6 Shadow Crystals? I guess if they lead to a big boss, like friggin' Gaster or some other similarly crazy character(s), there'd be a hell of an opportunity to have a Toriel stand-in who just uses the normal red, but then boom, last one has two new ones. 🥴 Quite mean, it would be.
Still on the pipe dream of possibly ever fighting Gaster specifically, another idea is he could just be the single enemy in the entire game to bring back blue and orange attacks, especially if the fight took place in the Light World (if Egg Man is Gaster in some capacity, he does just sorta, show up there, and it'd be a funny UT reference). That manages to be even _more_ of a pipe dream though. Wait actually, this isn't very related, but was it Alphys or Gaster who made the blue and orange lasers? Or someone else entirely? Hmm, I'm gonna guess Alphys. We know she's made a _bunch_ of inventions, so. One of the Gaster followers even says she works faster.
small detail on the heart=color thing
in UT a big thing was made on the colors of souls (heart shaped objects) indicating different traits, while minster souls (white) have the 7 known traits in balance
red=determination
yellow=justice
cyan=patience
pink=gateway for fanfic
etc.
red is never stated to bw determination fyi
"gateway for fanfic"
@@ashyunderscore yea all souls have determination thats how the amalgamates were made
@@ashyunderscore Red is Frisk/Chara's soul color, and chara is associated with determination when frisk dies, and in the "Ball" game, Determination is said in red. Also, If yellow is justice, green is kindness, blue is integrity, cyan is patience, etc.. then that leaves determination for red.
@@monkaroowo •Chara's only attachment to "Determination", is an ASGORE line telling them to stay determined, which is just a way of telling them to keep their will to live.
•The ball game does not say that, it says something among the lines of "You continue to be yourself".
•EXTRA: Determination is said to be inherent to ALL human souls by Alphys, which is why how she got determination for the amalgamates in the first place.
•EXTRA 2: Determination is mentioned in the True Lab, in yellow.
Death/Scythe is absolutely a reference to the Gundam Deathscythe, but it would be kind of wild if anything related to the Deathscythe or its pilot was actually relevant to understanding the pairing...
Don't know if that is an absolute, pretty sure scythes have been linked to death for a WHILE
@@beywheelzhater8930But aren’t they tools for gardening?
@@ThefifthBishopofGord well death also uses it for gardening
They just use it to gard a specific kind of flower
@@victoroliveira3577 what a beautiful comparison
@@ThefifthBishopofGord the grim reaper uses a scythe
8:11 in the profecy about the three heroes says "it was a legend of hope, it was a legend of dreams" and then "it was a legend of light, it was a legend of dark" comparing hope with light and dreams with dark
I just love the state of Deltarune right now. It simultaneously reminds me of times when UT was comming out and yet allows me not to be as engaged as I was in UT (bc y know all that stuff of being adult). Your content especially gives off this wonderful and calming vibe. Also, wish for you to destroy these yt algorithms and gain audience you deserve, which is far more than what you have right now. But it takes time, I know.
Oooooh I've been so excited for this one! It was so satisfying seeing all of Bread's speculation on the elemental pairs pay off in that Spamton Sweepstakes tweet. It really cemented them as the best Deltarune theorist out there to me. Methodical and thorough with just the right amount of creativity to reach outside the box.
Uhh, you kinda forgot about Ralsei's legend. A legend of Light-dark. A legend of Hope-dreams. You can correlate light/hope and dark/dreams to lightners and darkners.
I can totally see dark/star being dream/hope. Hopes and dreams have a lot of meaning in these games. Dreams and dark have a lot of connections, however star and hope is a little shakier, but there is some things like you said. Very interesting points you bring up. I took spamton’s words too literal. So I thought cat/puppet and dark/star being the real names of them. Always love the editing in your videos and your presentation, good job to you and your editors
Dark Star is for Fawful
I think that Death/Scythe = Rude/Chaos. Spamton appears to have some feelings towards Death/Scythe just like he has with Jevil. And further then that, maybe Thunder/Light and Dark/Star are the elements of the chapters 3-4 secret bosses, because Rude/Chaos and Puppet/Cat are the elements of the secret bosses so far. Maybe the Shadow Mantle protects against that Dark/Star thing, and then transforms into the Sky Mantle which we already know protects against Elec/Holy.
Good thinking
Also the etymology of Rude is "rudus" in Old French meaning "broken stone" and "rudis" in Latin meaning "unwrought" or "unfinished."... kind of ominous if Darkners turn into stone during the Roaring
i think that would make a lot of sense, since susie seems to have a lot in common with jevil that would imply rude and chaos being elemental pairs. devilsknife (presumably a chaos weapon) reduces rude buster’s tp, and susie even quotes jevil while equipping it.
I'm still partial to death/scythe=fight/blade as it connects far more easily. While the elements' partner may seem to be arbitrary , the words Spamton uses in place of the actual element names seem to be near synonyms. I cannot fathom Toby not considering us connecting scythe to the element it is literally a kind of, and while death may not be the first thing I think of when I hear fight there is certainly a direct correlation a la holy=light.
I don't want to diminish the connections between rude and chaos, however I also feel we mustn't miss aknowledging it's connections to another element: mouse. From Susie getting caught in mousetraps to the way Noelle reacts to both of them, Deltarune appears to be deliberately connecting the two thematically.
If I had to make a theory I'd propose the rude/mouse pair, with rude and chaos being synonyms. Although, since the elements are still extremely vague at the moment, the only thing I can say with confidence is that I cannot be too confident about anything.
Actually thinking about it the mantle might actually be the other way around. Starting as the Sky Mantle that protects against Elec and Holy(or light) before changing into the shadow mantle by combining with the shadow crystals(or the Pure Crystals) which makes it resist the [Dark/Star] element which could be hopes and dreams implying that it would protect against everything... or it potentially could become a "pure" mantle that does a similar thing.
The dark candies are carambolas made from darkness, hence the star shape, thus their pairing is dark/star
Something that might contribute to the discussion of DARK/STAR is that, at the time of writing this comment, there are a pair of lanyards available on the Japanese Fangamer website for DELTARUNE: Ralsei and Spamton. Ralsei's has a heart-shaped clasp, which makes sense, considering he has mentioned Kris' soul before, but Spamton's has a... five pointed star? Spamton mentions the soul far more than Ralsei ever does, and far more ominously as well, so it seems to me like a heart shaped clasp would make just as much sense for Spamton if not MORE so than for Ralsei. Business-wise, it would be more economical to use the same heart-shaped clasp for both characters, and it would also fit the lore very well; choosing a star must have been a deliberate action.
Five pointed stars show up a few times in UNDERTALE, off the top of my head I can only think of Mettaton's room and Asriel's attack patterns, but in DELTARUNE there are only 3 instances. I cannot see Spamton being tied to Starwalker, nor do I think it's a reference to the Dark Candy trees from Chapter 1, so what is the third option...? Well, the Green Room is COVERED in five pointed stars, from the wallpaper, to the vending machines, the curtains, the couches, one of the doors, and even the backs of the TVs.
I really, really think that stars are connected to the next major boss(likely Tenna), who might even be seen as somewhat of a star in the metaphorical sense, so I am totally willing to wager that Tenna/whoever the main boss ends up being is going to be Dark/Star.
Two more connections to cats and Gaster/666 not mentioned:
* Catti being a goth girl, who has studied the occult, which is often centered around summoning demons and such.
* Temmie (who is physically quite similar to a cat) holds a black-and-white egg that keeps track of the number of tree-eggs we found.
Also, I have a feeling that Seam might be a manifestation of Gaster, or a vessel through which Gaster is speaking through.
He even looks similar to the mystery man sprite, with one eye being round, the other being squinted, a gash below his round eye, and the mouth taking a similar shape.
He's the only character who cares about us fighting the bonus bosses, both of which were contacted by some strange entity, which in Spamton's case we know is directly tied to the telephone noise.
Seam seems to have knowledge of future events, something no other character does.
Most importantly, he's the only character that remembers events that happened in another save file. He gives you the Shadow Crystal if you pick up Jevil's item in the West of Castle Town:
> Ah, yes, that's right. It didn't occur to me until just now, but...
> You three defeated that clown last time, didn't you?
> ... Oh? What's that? It seems like he gave something to you.
Or, if you defeat Spamton, but not Jevil:
> ...What is that? It appears you have a Shadow Crystal.
> Unfortunately, I believe that you are missing one from your previous adventures.
> But, are you sure? Are you sure you didn't defeat that clown...?
> Perhaps... You just haven't remembered that you had yet.
> That's right, as long as you ever defeated that enemy in the past...
> Then perhaps, even now, that Crystal might turn up somewhere close... Perhaps!
That's not even getting into Kissy Cutie Mew Mew, with her mind control powers.
1:08 WHAT THE [Fifty Percent Off]!?!? AN [Unreliable Narrator]!? THAT'S WHAT I AM TO [You]!? YOU JUST LOST [+1997 BigShot™ Social Credit]
Calling it now, the Shadow Mantle protects against Dark/Star and that's the element of the Chapter 3 secret boss, specifically the Star part.
A TV Star, specifically... 😰
I'm surprised you didn't mention any of the monsters we saw in the sweepstakes, I feel like shadow man and the weather duo might be connected to dark/star.
It's a shot in the dark without more info, but if I had to make a guess about the Weather Duo, I'd put my money on Holy/Puzzle.
Holy is Sky (skymantle, berdly's tornados, etc).
And as for puzzle well... "The Weather Always Sticks Together."
BRUUHH SHOW STAR LIKE METTATON BROOO BRAAAAHHH
i'm ok
i'm surprised they didn't mention that Dark Star is for Fawful
We know Bread didn't upload this in the time he was supposed to, but, we know it's because he works hard to add fuel to the Deltarune mystery case. We really need to appreciate the hard work that he does. You are one more of the fandom, I love that everyone has your own beliefs in the theories here, we appreciate you very much, Breas. Let's hope your hard work pays off. Well, that's all I have to say for today, bye! ^^ :]
I want to say im so glad you treat the theorising responsibility and clearly mark when and where speculation and inference collide
I'd point out that the "[Death/Scythe]" mention actually gives me the vibes of "my eyes are burning like DVDs of any movie at half price"
While not the same kind of confusion if I'm correct (the DVD comment refers to burning a DVD, which is to write data to it), it seems entirely possible to me that Spamton wasn't actually mentioning an elemental pairing when he was talking about Jevil. I think he shows both of these confusions often (though the double-meanings are more interesting, so I pay more attention to them).
Could it be possible that there are two chaos elements? I think it could be possible that Death/Scythe is Chaos/Chaos. It would match up with the fact that in game Jevil's elements are "CHAOS:CHAOS". And it would still work with the "Chaos" in Chaos King being the Death element
I believe chaos = death, scythe = blade, heart = color, dust = fight, hopes = dreams.
That actually makes sense a lot.
Chaos can cause death
Scythes are like blades
The hearts are SOULS and have different colors
Monsters turn to dust because you fight them
And hopes and dreams because of the final theme
Gotta love how he brings with him the bad memory since the memoryhead episode 10:04
8:00 "What is a star?
Can you touch it?
Can you eat it?
Can you kill it?
Are you a star?"
Your section about the element cat and puppet makes me think of the many allusions there are to Susie being a cat-like. She even started out doing whatever she wanted before she started listening to us and Kris. Not to mention she's the ally cat that drinks Alphys' milk.
I believe that the actual connection between cats and puppets is that all cat element characters are a puppet somehow, either literally or figuratively
Spamtom is cat element and oftens talks about how he feels like an puppet
Seam is literally both a cat and a doll
Tasks are controlled like puppets by Task manager
But in the end of the day, Task manager is also being controled by a computer, Queen
What if jewel and hearth elements are in the same pair, since both symbols are red cards in a deck of cards and are related through that?
i think it's very possible that Chaos is supposed to stand in for Fight. Jevil seems to enjoy fighting people for fun, he's lonely, and he is capable of transforming himself into at least two different things (three, if you consider the Devilsknife he fights with and the one he gives to the party to be different). these are all things that tie pretty strongly into Fight's existing thematics.
i think it would also contextualize the item version of Devilsknife being able to lower the TP cost of Rude Buster, since i'm 99% sure that Rude Buster uses Fight as an element. Rude/Fight might be an elemental pair in and of itself, but i'm getting into tangent territory now.
this does mess with the idea the Jevil is "the [$#&*] that uses [Death/Scythe]," but i don't think we need to take Jevil's unused recruitment page at face value. besides, it's very possible that we're being misdirected, and some other secret boss down the line is using that elemental pair.
I think Dark/Star could also have a common theme of Night. As that's when stars come out, and, well, it's dark at night.
With that in mind, maybe this could be the elements of... the kNight
Dark Star is for Fawful
I always get so excited seeing one of your videos in my feed! I must have rewatched them all a hundred times at this point-all the little hints and details you pick up on are fascinating, and I really love hearing your thoughts on how they fit together!
my personal take on Dark/Star is that the Original Starwalker is a Star element Darkner, which is either very obvious or very interesting since Starwalker is both optional (it's easy to miss him in Chapter 1 and he does not auto recruit like the other Chapter 1 Darkners) AND has small cameos in Chapter 2 despite not having an official recruit page if you picked him up - this contrasts to Dark element Darkners, which I believe are the Bosses of the Fountains: notice how each fountain guardian - King, Queen and Ralsei - all force themselves on you and join your town regardless, they have no official recruit page to check their elements either despite joining you. You were also supposed to fight all of them at some point or another too (considering the Ralsei tutorial fight video). We'll see if Chapter 3 continues the trend of "starwalker has cameos you could miss" and "the main boss of the chapter joins your town regardless of your choices"
I also think those birds that look like the original Starwalker are either two separate darkeners with wings being an element we haven’t seen yet and the body being another star element darkeners or being one darkener that had two main body parts that move independently and probably separate consciousnesses as they moved independently after separated. I think those birds are the only other possible Star element darkener I can think of.
The dark part works well also because he has something special going on with his form. Like ik he's a joke character but like he doesn't turn to stone in Ch2. Ralsei could be explained with "he was made by the strong dark fountain and the manual states that the dark fountains give the darkeners their body, so Ralsei's body should be stronger" but like Starwalker is from the School Fountain and we already know School Darkeners should turn to stone so? His darkness of a body has something special going on.
I wonder if Puppet is actually meant to be Toy, that would make sense for the Card Kingdom and cats play with toys
Cat/Toy.
A mouse on a string.
Puppets all the way down.
4:45 me when Half Bread uses the word seams and seems 4 times in 30 seconds while talking about the character Seam: He can’t keep getting away with this! He can’t keep getting away with it!
I always thought Puppet/Cat was a sort of Property Element, since both commonly have owners. Perhaps cat is actually Pet? If it's cat specifically, then maybe Catti would give some insight...
Dark makes sense for being dreams kind of. You dream when you sleep and you sleep in the dark. Also before you dream, your mind is empty and dark. The darkness is like a canvas for dreams to materialize on.
Good video my friend, keep up the good content 👍❤️
beach what? the video has been up for only like a minute
@@quentin_9608 I feel like my fans know I hit refresh constantly when a video goes live, worrying about the reaction.
Is it weird that I appreciate the lies they tell to try to soothe that part of my mind?
@@quentin_9608 *child*
@@kodahyphenlee Be nice to each other. Don't make me get the broom.
@@HalfBreadChaos I mean I think people know it's going to be a great video anyways.
W.D. Gaster. What if W.D. didn't stand for wing dings? I mean, if annoying dog initials are A.D., then W.D. would be W__ Dog, implying some relation to one of the biggest enigmas of UT/DR. But what would the W. stand for? Weird. Like the weird route, the canon name for it, according to deltarune's code.
What would a troll like toby say is like a weird dog? Maybe a dog that isn't actually a dog. Like a cat.
The nail in the coffin is Element 6. We know it almost certainly has ties to gaster. We also know its elemental pair. Puppet and CAT.
W.D. Gaster, or WEIRD DOG GASTER, IS A CAT. When this theory turns out to be true in chapter 6, just make sure to shout me out. Laud me. Erect a statue in my honor.
Gaster Blasters do kinda look like cat's skulls🤔
ToRiEl DrEeMuRr iS T.D So GaStEr Is A DrEeMuRr
what if W.D. stands for Waluigi D***
Huh? Why are you interpreting W.D. as standing for something else when we already know that it stands for wingdings?
@@drdca8263 pretty sure that we don't actually have that confirmed, even if it seems obvious
"If Gaster turns out to be a cat and not a skeleton I swear I'm going to flip a biscuit"
Crack theory time: Gaster actually looks exactly like Mew Mew and the anime manifested in our world as a result of his desperate attempts to escape the void. Alphys is naturally drawn to the show because she knows on a subconscious level that it has something to do with her position.
Kinda makes me worried that their a element called death(because it’s called death). From what I grasp from what games handle it be stuff like instant death, lowering your max health, no healing or block revives. But I’d associate it with difficult enemies. Or a grim reaper, or a killer
Edit: just to update some more on my thoughts.
Reaper... Reaper Bird
@@michaelsbasement or maybe every man, hid it be creepy to just have that butterfly attacks back reaper bird uses but as a boss
I'm struggling to source this, but I've definitely read an excerpt from an interview in which Toby Fox said (in reference to Jevil) that order and chaos are two sides of the same coin, since chaos is just a pattern that's too complex for you to understand, thus Jevil's seemingly-random pirouette mechanic. There's a pretty strong implication in there that order/chaos are paired.
i think that's from the 6th anniversary stream when he was talking about pirouette
Thank you!
czcams.com/video/rksOYId-cNA/video.html2h53m15s
The actual quote is: "The pirouette move follows a specific order. If you count the turns you can get good effects. It only appears random. All chaos is ordered."
Looking at the actual quote, my paraphrasing is pretty bad, so I'm glad you were able to source it. I don't know if it actually implies an order/chaos connection, but if it doesn't then it probably helps explain the game's "chaos" element philosophically.
It does make sense for dark and star to be paired together considering the star patterns that appear above Kris before they open a Dark Fountain. Also the fact that (star shaped) save points can only ne found in the dark worlds. And the associations between these save points and determination made by Undertale combined with associations made between determination and darkness in Deltarune.
Hmm:
- High quality videos
- Awesome animations
- Regular upload
- Interesting discoveries
- Effort
Yeah I think you deserve *more* than 50k
okay, but gaster being a cat would explain so many things, honestly
7:47 Thinking about the element Dark/Star, the DELTARUNE intro starts with the sentence "It was a legend of LIGHT/DARK - It was a legend of HOPE/DREAMS". Could this imply that there is some kind of connetion? 🤔(P.S.: Also this could fit well the theory of the element DARK/DREAM as you said in the video)
Great video!! Hope you take some time for yourself between these videos and stay hydrated, we will wait patiently for the next 💖
You're the best deltarune content contributor right now to be honest, I love the editing and i love how much thought you put into it, all the efforts that you put into analyzing the game itself and not just the narrative. I hope you get that button soon!! Thank you for making the wait for the next chapters less painful!!
1:08 - Of course he is! But for some reason everyone forgets this sometimes. That's why your analysis are awesome halfbreadchaos. You remember about those tiny bits.
Gaster is the puppetmaster of the game so far. Pulling our strings...
just here to say that i have been here since your sub count only had 3 digits, and im really happy to see your channel grow like this, i wish you the best of luck in the future
Since Entry number 17 describes what could be the creation of the dark world, and the gaster followers say that he fell into his creation, it could be that he fell into the dark world, and since he is it's creator, he is the "puppet master" of the dark world, which is why he is connected to element 6
0:32 Omg darkstar from mario and luigi
I cannot believe theres a whole HalfBreadChaos video made around the answer to *MY* QUESTION
aaa this is so cool fkfmdmgksk
When I first asked it during the QnA it was soo so late... I shpuldve been long asleep, but I was attentively following the sweepstakes in my bed and then bam, the QnA started, I asked about cats specifically BECAUSE i remembered something about them in HBC's video (i dont think i properly understood it back then). I still wanted to keep it vague though just in case they wouldnt want something such as elements to be brought up directly
SO IMAGINE MY SUPRISE WHEN I WOKE UP AND I SAW NOT ONLY A BUNCHA PEOPLE I KNOW (like Dorked) GET THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED BUT ALSO GET MINE ANSWERED! And it was acrually about elements! I was and STILL AM so freaking happy haha...
I dont have much toa dd to the proper substace of the video, I just wanted to share the stody behind me asking that question
Oh and also after it was answered I rewatched the video and realised I was misinterpreting what an elemental pair was, so whenever id see people on the internet reacring to that answer Id TRY to correct their own misinterpretations.
With me ALSO suggesting that spamton's words arent accurate to the actual names of the elements
That was a really chaotic time because on top of that I still was super pumped about wverything else, like the sweepstakes finale and such
man that was a damn GOOD anniversary, such good memories of discussing everything with friends on discord... ahh...
Dark/Star = Hopes/Dreams makes so much sense for Nightmare Knight from cucumber quest, which is where I suspect Toby got a lot of inspiration, considering he made music for the comic.
My day has been blessed with a new BreadVid
also, hope youre doing good Bread
Personally, I think the reason cat is paired with puppet is because both have to do with string. Cats like to play with string and puppets have strings.
This might also tie the cat/puppet pair with the worm from the Spamton Sweepstakes.
When they said
"I'm so happy right meow"
I physically reacted in a way I can't describe(in a good way)
STAR/DARK = HOPES & DREAMS...
That's clever.
In the Dark you sleep(Dream)
& On A STAR you Make A Wish. (HOPE)
Dark Star is for Fawful
When you started talking about how cats choose their people, my cat crawled in my lap and made me pet him. 10/10 would watch again.
YEAAAAAA NEW HALF BREAD CHAOS VIDEO
Btw make sure you take breaks
I think chaos = death because death is a more broad term compared to scythe
I really like how Toby gives us new and exciting information only for us to start making theories that leave us with way more questions than we started with, at this point he is doing it on purpose
5:14 - and making them ring, until your heart turns read
I love your videos so much 🥹
They scratch that deltarune itch perfectly everytime
11:12 You deserve all the support you're getting. You're an amazing youtuber.
The joke about selling seam plushes to make kromer was so well placed
Something important I remember from multiple books by Terry Pratchet, is that death is always seen as inevitable. A constant, unevoidable.
a key concept in science, too, is entropy, also described as chaos; all closed systems eventually fall towards complete unanimity until they are indescribable other than by "completely entropic", totally chaotic. but a system with total entropy is also, stable, so a totally entropic system is also one that is completely ordered.
I think the [death/scythe] mentioned by spamton describes this, with death meaning inevitability, complete order, and scythe referring directly to jevil; chaos.
Chaos and order are intrinsically linked, the more chaotic something is, the more unanimous it appears within itself.
I think then that death/scythe is actually order/chaos, linked via this theme of entropy.
I think it would make most sense for Death/Scythe to be Chaos/Blade, it just fits the best in my head lol. And you've totally convinced me that Dark/Star=Dreams/Hopes
Dark Star is for Fawful
When I saw that message from Spamton at the beginning of the video, your older video was the first thing I thought of!
11:01 how are we doing this?
Determination that’s how
another thing for dark/star being hopes/dreams, i was thinking about why the field of hopes and dreams is called that and then i remembered it has the dark candies on trees that are shaped like stars..it's also pretty dark i mean it is a dark world. and it's the first area you see in a dark world (besides castle town) so like first impressions or something? idk lmao
The unnameable one is the puppeteer in the game, so he has element 6 as he has many puppets, perhaps he’s a cat skeleton?
i love love love how spamton answers like hes a character in the tutorial area who teaches u abt random bs
Gaster is Element 6 (cat/puppet) because he is the one who controls everything. He’s the one preventing our choices from mattering.
"you do not own cat. CAT owns YOU." HalfBreadChaos, 2023
congrats on the subs! don't overwork yourself for us, though!
congratulations on 50k subs
I don't remember if this was already discussed in the video about Gaster and Element 6, but I think his connection could be science??
He's stuck in a state of simultaneous life/death due to his accident (even if that didn't happen in Deltarune up to this point, I think it'll become relevant at some point.) Also science involves a lot of control in the environment you're working in, which makes a lot of sense with all the connections between puppet/cat and themes of control and order.
Also he's probably pulling strings behind the scenes. There has to be *something* he's puppeting.
EDIT: the Schrodinger's Cat stuff may be relevant to the puppet side of things as well. He's not truly alive, but he sure isn't dead either... Not only are puppets objects (not alive/dead), the way they're controlled irl make them "alive" in some way even if theyre not actual living things. This may also be important for Spamton, idk
just had to get surgery for the 2nd time, iv been upset abt it but this vid really cheered me up!! keep on being awesome!
3:12 HBC why have you been hiding your extra arms from us for so long?
BREAD!!! I was hoping you'd cover this! Always love your videos ^_^
dont forget that hopes and dreams are paired up not only in the name of asriels theme in undertale, but in the legend ralsei tells you
scythe is chaos because scythes are associated with jevil, but death isnt
the overarching theme between the death/scythe pairing may be related to the idea of the grim reaper, who has a scythe
The way I start jumping up and down happily when you upload
Just a note: Mad Mew Mew is another character who is both a puppet/doll and a cat
If, say, Seam were to be affiliated with Gaster and it was Gaster's another way to "connect" and influence the game, he doesn't have to be a literal cat - there's a perfect Cat Puppet already, with which Gaster could be doing anything through his paws. Gaster would still qualify as a Cat Element in this circumstance.
That's just a comment on "if Gaster turns out to be a cat".
very cool how you connected dark/star being hopes and dreams!! was very wowed by the thought hahaha
Seeing your videos in my notifications brightens up my day in a way that no other youtuber does.
5:56
I don't think Death/Scythe have to necessarily be equated to chaos, specifically.
It's also possible that Devilsknife is an attack of that element.
If Susie can learn hope/dream magic from Ralsei (the ultimate healing), can't Jevil learn to attack outside his element of chaos? (which I think already pairs nicely with order?)
Then again, it could also be possible that Death is "order" and Scythe is "chaos"... something dead is known to stay still. Quite orderly.
A scythe is also not necessarily always meant as a weapon, making it a pretty chaotic thing.
You can also see it as the chaos of reaping, balanced by the order of death...
This assumes chaos pairs with order, of course.