Major Limitation Discovered in New Montage M! (see follow-up correction video)
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- UPDATE: Thanks to Moessieurs and Loopop who pointed me to the way this can be done. It's not as obvious (it's not on the Aftertouch page) but it can be done - watch my correction video here where I show how to do it: • Correction: Montage M ...
While working with the AN-X engine on my Montage M7, I discovered what appears to be a major design limitation by Yamaha - and it almost makes me wish I hadn't bought my M7. In this video, I demonstrate one of the great features of the AN-X engine, then I show how this leads me to discover the frustrating and disappointing limitation.
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0:00 Intro
1:16 Secret Extra Oscillators!
5:20 How to do FM and Ring Mod at the same time
8:23 Modulating AN-X with Aftertouch
11:54 Summary
#Yamaha #MontageM #Aftertouch - Hudba
UPDATE: Thanks to Moessieurs and Loopop who pointed me to the way this can be done. It's not as obvious (it's not on the Aftertouch page) but it can be done - watch my correction video here where I show how to do it: czcams.com/video/UwRuUDJ9S6I/video.html
Hi Scoot, thank you for pointing this.
If you look at the manual page 292 for the source parameter on this Aftertouch screen it"s write: "Cannot be changed from this screen. This parameter is fixed to Poly AT".
i agree with you that the fact on the top you can select "Channel" is a bit confusing.
Users can think they can use this screen with Montage M6 and M7 and in fact you're right, they cannot use this screen.
But you can set Aftertouch to control what you want with your Montage M6 or M7 by using the control assign screen.
Here is the way to use aftertouch with a Montage M6 or M7:
On control assign screen: set auto select, press a note to engage the aftertouch, select the destination you need including AN-X setting, and it's work without any problem.
One other way select the destination you want to have under control, press control assign button, press a note up to the aftertouch, it will open the control assign screen and do the job too.
Same thing for AWM2 or FM-X settings of course.
Hope it's help, i agree that this is "disturbing" to have this nice screen for aftertouch and cannot use it on Montage M6 and M7, so go to control assign, it done the job.
Yup, you're 100% correct. I will create a follow-up video!
Hey Scott - love your videos. I think you may have gotten this one wrong? I have the M8 so I can't check on the M7/6, but if you go to the Control Assign tab, you'll see you can select Ch AT as a source, and point that to OSC Sync Pitch, and it seems to work just fine when I set my keyboard to channel aftertouch. Just ignore the Aftertouch tab (which, I agree it's odd you can't change to channel AT...). Please check it and let me know if I missed something?
Wait you have the new Montage? Where is your video about it? Been desperately checking your channel for a video about it :-)
@@youtubevideos415 working on it - coming soon!
Hi Ziv! Yup, you are 100% correct - I looked there as well as in the manual, I'm not 100% sure why I didn't see it there before, perhaps I had the incorrect part selected for editing, and it wasn't showing me AN-X options as a Channel AT modulation destination? In any case, I'll whip up a quick correction video.
Thanks!
@@loopop Great. I'm really looking forward to it.
Yaaaaaaay can’t wait:)
Glad I kept my old montage ❤
Yeah..i bought new white Montage 6 same day when new came out for a crazy discount. New.
Nice videos, shows us the insights of keyboards. It is always good to know, although i want to go for the 88 (when i got the money). When i saw this video announced i tought it was about a possible bug or "feature" youtuber @HeiderSati found on his video "Yamaha Montage M 8 Bug?! Drum Kit note cut-off?!". Have you had run into any issues like that? Thank you again for your videos.
Hi thanks for the video! That is certainly frustrating I hope there is a fix. In the meantime for studio use perhaps you could re-assign the channel aftertouch to another MIDI CC using a DAW and route the re-assigned controller data back in to the Montage? I've done things like this for other synths to deal with routing limitations. For example in Logic you can use the MIDI modifier to convert incoming aftertouch to something like breath control and send it back in to the synth.
If I understand what you said.. then It’s also disappointing that you can only modulate oscillator against its self as the same wave shape..
can you fm the main oscillators against each other? (Not the internal oscillator way that you show)
I’m waiting on my m8x and was hoping the an-x engine could fm different wave shapes.
Does the board just default to sending channel aftertouch or poly aftertouch on all note numbers if it does not have poly aftertouch? This sounds to me like a bug that should get fixed in a firmware update.
I am sticking with my good ol' regular Montage. I have no desire for the M. I have a nice Analog synth to make up for any shortcomings, and like you, a Hydrasynth. It's been a few years and haven't thought about wanting or getting anything else and feel at peace with my synth line up. They all make me really happy and I don't feel like I'm "missing" anything.
Exactly my thought. I'm on the list for the Behringer UB-XA and I'll be getting the MODX8+, no need for the M series. The combination cost of the UB-XA and the MODX8+ is STILL less than the Montage 8M and I'm getting a pure analog synth with the UB-XA.
Seems Like Yamaha can fix this with a firmware update.
Hydrasynth is digital no?
virtual analog synthesizer with polyphonic aftertouch so yes, digital. It does sound as good as some analog synths though and now it is $100 off at $499. Very tempting@@KBizzy
@@KBizzy It is! With Polyphonic aftertouch, a nice long ribbon controller, Wavemorphing and a host of other features. Between that, a Deepmind 12 and a Montage, it's one giant supersynth in my opinion.
It's today's strugedy of business to keep some limitations, for selling next product with little bit more features, to make previous model for trash!
How do you get a screen recording from it ?
HI Scott, I case you have a Seaboard (I know you have the ASM poly keybed); since the M6 / M7 are lacking the poly-AT, but have sounds onboard that are programmed for poly-AT; can you hook up the seaboard and use that for dynamic poly-AT sounds on the Montage ? I have a seaboard Rise2 and MODX7+, but the MODX is useless with the seaboard as attached keyboard. Doesn't understand MPE / Poly-AT or anything. Wonder if the new Montage OS is any better in that respect. have eyes on a M7 ..
Hi Scott, I think you are sleeping on the M8 keyboard. I dont know if you tried one. It feels so nice. It is like a synth when you play synth and weighted when you play keys. It feels so good to play.
I agree, I have the M8 and its the first perfect keybed for BOTH piano and synth LOVE the feel!
Ok. But let me ask you guys (or girls) this. I was concerned that the M8x action is too light for piano for a couple of reasons. One is that I think you can control dynamic range better with a heavier key. Two is that maybe you can maintain better finger strength with a heavier action. If the M8x is your only weighted keyboard, will you lose some of that? So if you later get on a heavier keyboard it will feel tough to play.
I'm coming from a Yamaha S90ES which I think is a bit on the heavier side so I wouldn't mind something a little bit lighter and faster. But not too light.
@jimhewes7507 I upgraded from an s90! You are right the s90 is heavier. I also have a Kawaii upright piano that I play which is also much heavier. I would not consider the M8x a good keyboard for a classical pianist or even high level Jazz pianist (neither of which I am), for the piano purist a heavier real piano action would be needed, but for your average musician who plays synths, pianos, organs, etc, the M8x to me is the best of all worlds in one keyboard. I don't find playing my heavier pianos difficult, just different and I enjoy both.
@@MM-do5yx Thanks for the info. :) I guess if you have a real piano that you play often enough that lets you keep in shape.
Great job Scott! I’m not sure it can be fixed with a firmware update. So sad.
I manage to link CAT to ANX parameters from the control assign tab under part
I really want the 61. Why would the put all the good things in the 88 key. DO you think a future software upgrade would add aftertouch or do you think Yamaha would have to come out with a new keyboard?
You cant add polyphonic aftertouch to a channel aftertouch keybed with firmware. It's a physically different keybed.
You had me WAY down further than I usually need to go and I startled at first!!! Scott?? Disappointed by this great new thing!! LOL!! So anyway I had to look this up before watching your video again because I did not know this: Please delete if not allowed or preferred. Here goes: Channel aftertouch and polyphonic aftertouch are two distinct types of MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) messages that convey information about the pressure applied to a key or keys on a MIDI controller.
Channel Aftertouch:
Definition: Channel aftertouch, also known as monophonic aftertouch, is a MIDI message that represents the overall pressure applied to all keys on a MIDI controller at a given moment.
Usage: When you press a key on a MIDI controller that supports channel aftertouch, the pressure applied to that key is transmitted as a single value for the entire channel. This means that the aftertouch information is not specific to individual keys but affects all sounding notes on that MIDI channel.
Example: If you press a key on a MIDI controller that supports channel aftertouch and apply pressure, all the notes being played on that MIDI channel will be affected by the same amount of aftertouch.
Polyphonic Aftertouch:
Definition: Polyphonic aftertouch, also known as key pressure, is a more advanced form of aftertouch that allows for the independent control of pressure on each individual key.
Usage: When you press a key on a MIDI controller that supports polyphonic aftertouch, the pressure applied to that specific key is transmitted as a separate value for that key only. This allows for nuanced and individual control of the aftertouch effect for each sounding note.
Example: If you press multiple keys on a MIDI controller that supports polyphonic aftertouch and apply pressure to one key, only the note associated with that key will be affected by the aftertouch, leaving the other notes unaffected.
Why the Differences:
The choice between channel aftertouch and polyphonic aftertouch depends on the musical context and the capabilities of the MIDI controller. Channel aftertouch is simpler and requires less data bandwidth, making it more suitable for some situations. Polyphonic aftertouch, on the other hand, provides more expressive possibilities by allowing independent control over each key's aftertouch, making it valuable for certain types of performances where nuanced control is essential.
In summary, the differences between channel aftertouch and polyphonic aftertouch stem from the need for different levels of expressiveness and the practical considerations of MIDI data transmission.
That's a surprising limitation. At least it should have an option to have those options fall back to channel AT.
Should actually be able to be fixed with a firmware update. But whether Yamaha wants that is another question
Anx init set to mono?
Hi Scott. Sorry to hear of that limitation on the M6 and 7. That said, the information on FM and Ring modulation that you shared is actually not quite correct. Oscillator 3 is the source for FM and Ring Modulation on oscillators 1 and 2. Sync pitch is built into the same oscillator however (as you said).
it almost feels like it was a late marketing decision to strip away polyphonic after touch on the smaller key beds, but for some reason , prob the right hand, not talking to the left hand, the operating system was not changed.
I tried to tell you, Scott, there’s only one MASTER BOARD.
As Dylan wrote, “You’re gonna have to serve somebody.”
Can’t serve SUMMIT and Yamaha.
😊
How bizarre, although it's got to be fixable with firmware.
I suspect it is marketing to sell the 88 key version because even cheap controllers from NI have poly aftertouch now.
As a Yamaha Montage M8x owner, I experience no such petty issues whilst indulging in the joys of the superior GEX polyphonic aftertouch key-bed. I can only look down with pity upon the poor souls and the great unwashed masses who must settle for a lesser instrument in life. In fact, if you'll excuse me, I will now retire with a cigar and glass of port to the conservatory where I will once again admire and caress the polyphonic keys of the M8x under candlelight.
While I want AN-X, I don't play enough to justify upgrading from my existing Montage 7.
Yeeeesh! The cynic in me is suggesting that Yamaha did this on purpose to drive sales to the 8Mx. Also, perhaps they didn't want to have to build two different versions of the software. Or, they had originally planned to include polyAT on all three but changed their mind's at the last minute for cost cutting reasons? Who knows...
Why are we paying so much for these keyboards and not have everything??? 😢😢😢😢
Amen
@@SWATTECHNOLOGIES YOU MIGHT AS WELL GET FL STUDIO AND A NICE KEYBOARD AND YOUR STRAIGHT
I heard that it is not the oscillator 2 but oscillator 3 that does modulates oscillator 1. Try it out.
Firmware update coming soon!!!!
they have to come up with an update as son as possible.
M6 and M7 should have poly-AT. Period. It’s not as if Yamaha didn’t have the time to develop or license a poly AT 61 or 76 Keybed. They took ages for this successor to the original Montage and Poly-AT is also hot with current synth controllers. New KORG keystage and NI have it. There is no excuse why the M7 and 6 shouldn’t have it by now , especially since it is such a selling point of the new Montage. I think it’s ridiculous how Yamaha has handled this. To fix things they could come out with the next factory batch of the 61/76 Montages including Poly-AT and offer early adapters (buyers of first batch) a free Keybed replacement or revision that adds poly-At. Anything less is a shame .
Yamaha's egg on face moment. How fast will they fix it? WILL THEY FIX IT? Pretty sure this is a bug where the dev only had an m8x in front of them when they were testing code, that's all.
@@billevans7488 Oh? We need to hear more about this. But these gut checks are still important because devs release buggy stuff as routine nowadays.
You probably found a bug in the software.
Redesigned by Roland Fantom 😂
It's still the best keyboard. I know they will fix it.
But thats stupid. They put in poly AT features in the damn keyboard, yet they dont give us poly AT usable..... ur gonna have to reach out to them, scott.
Raise it with yamaha
Make more videos
Gave up after you almost told us and then didnt 🙄
Workstations are dead
The fact that the Montage M sold out almost immediately the first week it was released would seem to prove otherwise...