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How To Counter A Flanker Two-Circle Vs One-Circle | WarThunder
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2023
- ✅ AeroTurtle Discord: / discord
War Thunder Today we'll teach you the differences between two-circle and one-circle. And why they're importance.
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[SOUND MOD LINK] live.warthunder.com/post/1044...
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💡 TOPICS IN THIS VIDEO 💡
War Thunder Air Superiority
War Thunder Su-27
War Thunder F-15
War Thunder F-16
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#warthunder
#AeroTurtle
#toptierjets
#F-15
#Su-27
I’m honestly a firm believer that the three circle sicilian gambit is the best maneuver it counters one circle and two circle fighting
Personally, I prefer the round edge cuboid cuthrough fork to catch any circle players off guard yk. Works every time
@@SoggyKatnip you mean where you are passed out most of the time?
@@zawadlttv Passing out? Nah I'm too epic for that 😎
@@SoggyKatnip well on the straight parts you are passed out and on the curved ones not until you pass out again to fly straight
@@zawadlttv 😂😂 I have been found out
Another comment about the merge after a 2-circle. You can actually throw in some maneuvering in the vertical plane (just slight climbs and slight dives) in the right places to offset your turning circle so that both of them line up more. As the fighter winning the 2-circle, you want to keep the circles decently overlapped. The other fighter would want to offset the circle to create those merges.
Where would those right places be? Just after merge or somewhere halfway through?
Yup this is something I missed to mention. Thank you for pointing this out, I forgot about this.
@Hzies I don't play warthunder but it still stands. It depends on how the fight is playing out. A pitch back into a slice at the merge can tighten your radius faster than just going 2 circle in the horizontal plane. Watch the bandit and make your call depending on your energy state and their aspect/energy state.
@@Thorn19774 thanks this is good to know and pretty well timed as I just got the f5e I hope I will be able to apply this. :)
Doesn't work bc you don't have enough speed on keyboard/mouse bc you can't rate at the right speed
there is no such thing as super aoa. there are simply planes with high angle of attack and planes with low angle of attack. for example, the f-18 can pull insane aoa. I can't pin the number down due to varying sources but it is quite possible that it is over 50 degrees compared to the flankers 45 degrees.
edit: also the aoa pull seems to be directly correlated with the airplanes thrust in combination with the airframe.
the thrust reduces actual aoaa by chaaging the direction of movement
I've flown F18A/B/C's along with 3 NATO transfers on F16s, M2000s and Tornadoes. Yes there is planes with super AoA. Flankers are 1. The simple over ride of the FCS in a F18 will get you unlimited AoA. The Finnish Air Force recently added new FCS Software in their F18C's that has UNLIMITED AoA, you do not need to slap the FCS stick or over ride. czcams.com/video/VLnB1DcB9u0/video.html This is what Full time Unlimited AoA looks like in a F18C.
I honestly love when one/two circle fights develop
7:38
Exactly! most people assume that the F-16C is better in every way than the F-16A, and even though people just ignore the fact that the F-16C weights more due to the improved engine output, the F-16A's lighter airframe allows it to retain energy a lot better and it doesn't really even NEED the extra engine output, the F-16C is only better in terms of the radar and it's IR missiles, the F-16A has overall been a better experience in terms of dogfighting for me.
Yeah a lot of people don't notice this.
F16C is 500kg heavier if i remember correctly
The Gripen is an UFO man… only fighter where I could 1 v 3 against 2 x SMT and F-15A and win.
My guess is that WT has reached peak maneuverability - every aircraft after this (except maybe those with thrust vectoring) will have worse turn performance, whihc is used to increase payload, range, on board equipment or stealth.
I hope that everyone slavering for ever newer and more modern aircraft know that 2020s era air combat is all about synthetic battlefield awareness, long range missile combat and BVR engagements.
we will see better munueverability on f22. beyond that though
@@moustrout1299 f22 isn't the most maneuverable modern jet tho
it's still a compromise between stealth and flight performance
There are still way more maneuverable aircraft to come. Aircraft with thrust vectoring, loads of thrust, canards etc. F-22, Su-35, Su-57, Rafale, Typhoon, and probably some prototypes I can't remember right now.
@@abbc5156 stealth is simply the concept of reducing the cross sectional area from as much as possible from specific angles, f22 is easily detectable if it faces its belly or its top to its target. however nothing in the design of stealth says you must sacrifice flight preformance, the thing can pull a nasty turn without use of its thrust vectoring,
the f35 is the aircraft that was not designed with supermanueverability in mind. rather around the technology and equipment behind its stealth.
Eurofighter will be on par with the F-22 except for a stall fight where it doesn't have thrust vectoring, it will be better than anything currently in game
Sad thing is some of these jets flight models are suppressed asf for "balancing" reasons. To my knowledge, Su-27/J-11 fm's are suppressed. Unsure about the other jets but I prefer vehicles to be more "accurate" or "true" to their irl fm's and hope Gaijin stops suppressing vehicles so hard.
IT S NOT AN AI VOICE LETS FKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Great to see someone educating the WT community on this basic concepts of BFM in jets.
Regarding the RB rate fights I have a keybind to change mode to realistic or full real controls so I can do the rate fight, so I can trim the aircraft and keep my mouse at a certain rate, it requires some keyboard mashing quickly but when its needed could be the difference between win or lose, unless someone swoops in and steals the kill before you reach the bandit 🤣
The f15 does not need the wing tanks for a full match only the center tank , he has alot of unnecessary weight, and i tested out the f15 with a full 36 min of fuel (stock engines ) that thing is basically impossible to stall under full AB and can pull some crazy AOA , but the mig 27 is like a ufo ,lol im not sure what the max amount of fuel the mig can carry but its deff not as much as a f15 so its always gonna be lighter .
7:02 I believe thats what makes controllers kinda better in sim than in rb in my opinion
this 4d chess hurts my brain😭
I was told in air sb that a two circle fight which me and this one dude was in wasn't a dog fight because we just flew around in circles and I fired flares... like dude clearly didn't know what two circle into a rate fight was so he just thought it wasn't called dog fighting
a 2 circle is a rate fight.....
dual wielder soundtrack chad
Today I lost 1-circle in a Gripen to... F-15A. Which surprised me a lot. But then I remembered he could be low on fuel and I was like 20 minutes. I guess this is the explanation, but I gotta say F-15 pulls REALLY hard when low on fuel, and his thrust is just monstrous
Gripen literally got nerfed HARD today, so I’m not surprised. Now taking more fuel is literally a death sentence in the Gripen, I take 20 minutes now because it’s literally too heavy with any more fuel
I've found that the f-15 pulls a lot while speedbraking and with the flaps down. He might've done that like that.
Was this on Afghanistan?
@@Donut833 No, it was our beloved Vietnam
Pleaaase do something anything with lightning f6, i love that plane but can't fly it effectively..
F15 flight model is overerforning in war thunder. There is olnly one degree per second gap in angle velocity between those 2. So those should be pretty equal in 2 cirle, but f15 a little bit better, but Su27 is better in 1 cirle. I think the problem with f15 is that it does not lose that much speed while pulling high aoa as it should. It is the rule of life: you pull aoa - you lose speed a lot. No engine power can make up for this. Considering that both those jets has twr over 1
I don't even... Sigh. I don't think the f-15 is overperforming, I think the su-27 is sliiightly underperforming. Its low speed manoeuvrability should be a bit better, but both planes are in good places.
And the f-15 has insane twr. While the su-27 has 1.09 twr irl, the f-15 has 1.17. It makes sense that it retains energy better, right? And energy and a good sustained turn rate are what the eagle is good at right? So there you go.
@@snowi9585you forget an “airframe” thing, f-15 has wings that was designed to give it a lot of lift and less drag in straight flight to be able to get high altitude and speed as fast as possible and at the same time to be able to carry a lot of different munitions, but this type of wings produces much more drag in high AoA pulls than su-27/30/35/etc and late migs wings so if combine that with its higher TWR you’ll get that f-15 is losing speed in “high” AoA turns 10-15% faster than su-27, if it had the same TWR it would lose 17-22% more speed than su-27.
The F-15 is just fine, but the SU-27 isn’t good enough, it is an enormous and heavy aircraft though.
@@user-jy6cn3jy8g Okay then, if we'te gonna do it like that, then I can complain that the f-15 doesn't have amraams so it can't compete as a missile bus, even though it was designed with both bvr and bfm in mind (the whole foxbat story), so ok, nerf the f-15, but I want my amraams, otherwise it's a fat piece of garbage. If it can't do the one thing it's supposed to do well, which is 2 circle and rate, then it can't do shit.
@@snowi9585 well it outrates both su-27 and mig-29 rn, it can’t and couldn’t outrate f-16 or something like that, f-15a had no amraams btw it came almost 20 years earlier than even an A variant of amraam was developed, but yeah, now it’s an American 29SMT but with much better FM and slightly worse armament(but that’s subjective, I personally prefer 9M over r-73, especially in SB, both 7Ms and 27R/ERs are pretty much useless in the current meta with 100m “safe” altitude instead of 10-20 how it is irl so both are just extra weight)
But still, correct me if I’m wrong but fox-3s are gonna be added next month and 120A has less range than 7M and still will have “ground clutter” effect so it probably will be as “useful” as SARHMs rn as well as r-77 and other stuff if snails won’t change this safe altitude to like it is irl
And f-15 doesn’t need a nerf, I didn’t write a single word about that, I wrote that f-15 was not supposed to be the topdog due to its airframe, it literally was developed to be a missile bus that can push an enemies and never allow em to get close enough to get a dogfight, but if that happened then it could do something so it is similar to mig-31 but mig-31 can’t turn at all while f-15 can outrate some planes, but can’t win 1C fight against em, and basically a lot of fighters can win both 2C and 1C fight against f-15
F15 has no problem flaring R73 below 1 km range for some reason is it normal?
Preflaring. R-73s usually track if the plane isn't constantly flaring. But if the missile is shot while the target is flaring then it can miss.
@@snowi9585 there was no preflaring and i was radar slaving my r73. he flared it like those were r60s. it was a 1 circle fight
hope you get well soon man
Thank you so much!!!
use 10 flares and jink left or right the second they fire r73 in 1 circle works everytime sadly after ammrams added never happens
A sincere question: is the f15 actually more agile than a su27 at all IRL, considering the first was built to be moslty a missile bus and the second to be mostly a dogfighter?
Su-27 has better sustain turn rate and instantaneous turn rate and nose pointing compared to F-15. But F-15 has much better acceleration and can reach higher top speed while loaded
Generally the su-27 has incredible turning, but that comes with incredible speed bleeding as well.
su27 flight mode kinda sucks in game
Motto of the su 27 is "one turn, one shot, one kill."
The F-15 is "kill the fucker before he can see me with his own two eyes"
@@flyingcactus1953source on sustained turn rate?
When im in a two circle. I just spam/hold W to keep myself from losing too much speed. Its a big tedious but it takes practice. It works well with the f16 and the f15 but planes like the flanker this tactic is nearly impossible because of how the fm is. Also the grippen should not be beating a viper in the two circle that is some complete bs
So the Gripen is now the most broken plane since it can beat an F16 in a 2 circle and beat the Su27 on a 1 circle
Sort of. In very controlled circumstances, the Griphen is the best. However in RB, 1v1 dogfights virtually never happen. How it usually goes is everyone opens up with their Fox 1 at long range first, then they merge and create a furball that usually last a minute or two max, then the team who wins creates a murder ball and just dogpiles the last few remaining players.
This is where the Griphen basically falls flat and breaks both it legs, as it has no real long range weapon outside the Skyflash, which is good... at 11.3. It gets out classed and out ranges by everyone else. So you can't help thin out the herd at the opening volley and in the furball, you're gonna be targeted by multiple targets alot, which will catch you unless you're in the winning side of the furball.
and its billion cm
@@HawkTheRed the second part of your paragraph is kind of moot, because the gripen is VERY good in gettung targeted by many at the same time, as it holds its speed very well while also turning very well. Moreover your tiny engine and 620 countermeasures lets you flare any missile even rear aspect (except those god forsaken aam3s) so no ir missiles can touch you. Also 6 aim9ms is nothing to scoff at, if fired from rear aspect unless its a gripen then its almost a guaranteed kill because of its irrcm and smokeless motor.
@@EggSaladSammich It's good at surviving, but it's not good at shooting back or getting out, and surviving doesn't really mean anything when 3/4 of the team is already dead and the rest decided they wanted to bomb bases. The 9Ms are good, but they're flarable, can be dodged by people who know they're coming, and they're short range weapons. This doesn't even count of the fact that by the time you lined up on one, 2 more are already on you and you got to dodge them too. Unless you're a AWACs or they're hilariously incompetent, one of them will get you no matter how fancy your turn or how many flares you got.
F-15 is also pretty equal to the flanker in 1c
If you both slow down but flanker still has the edge. This is if guns only though btw
I’d like to see F16A block 10 vs the gripen with low fuel. I’m still unsure which of the two rate fights better. Would you happen to know?
Id imagine they rate evenly, me and my freind did many 1v1s with realistic loadouts and fuel (how ever much fuel you typically have by the time you encounter someone and your missile loadout you typically take) and the gripen on 20 minutes with max missiles slightly out rates the f16j with max missiles and 20 minutes and since the f16a turns a bit better than the j id think the gripen and f16a in a realistic encounter would have the same 2 circle rate effectiveness
can you list, which music-themes you use?
can you rate fight with full real controls and mnk
but in war thunder f15 is better in one circle
thanks a lot
NOBODY CARRIES ALL R27ER'S IN DOGFIGHTS, BAD EXAMPLE
I’m not seeing much flanker :(
All these tactics are almost useless in War Thunder, top tier is a mess
Definitely not, while yes the opening is a lot of missile spam, once you get to the mid and end of match you’ll find lots of opportunities to dog fight. I just posted a 1V5 or 6 dogfight on my channel in the MIG23.
i think the video title is wrong , it should be more like how to counter gripen/mirage 4000 ? , su27 is not that good compared to gripen/m4k/f16 etc. all u need is to fly low to the ground. while gripen will sht on u any day.
Hey man I'd love to help as silent assistant.
What do you mean by this?
What about that other top tier... mig29? Probably a one circle fighter but... XD
Yep, good AOA. One circle.
if wasn't nerf to the groud sure. Bute not in it's current state.
Flanker is underperforming
lmfao heck no
@jonathanoriley8260 heck yeah it doesn't fly like it should
@@Migthunder Oh? And pray tell how do you know, Mr Armchair Pilot? By most sources I've seen, it's appears fairly accurate with Sim controls (which is what matters, not mouse controls).
@jonathanoriley8260 he s right ,it doesn't pull the aoa it should
@jonathanoriley8260 because in dcs you can pull so much more away. And retain energy a lot better. Dcs has much more accurate flight models than warthunder.