If Islam beats poirer he is no debates tied or even slightly better, and if Arman he is no doubt the LW goat beating Charles and volk 2 alone damn near ties him and adding those 2 wins solidifies
He'd still be slightly worse. Khabib was undefeated and dominated everybody. Apparently everyone is saying only one guy gave him a difficult time (Tibau). But compared that to Islam's actual KO loss. I think if Islam beats another person after Dustin, he may be tied or slightly better than Khabib. If he dominates them he'll be above Khabib. But if he struggles against that one (or even struggle against Poirier), then he will need to do extra work.
@@GrubKiller436khabib fought and beat Connor Dustin and Justin. Islam is fighting Oliveira volk and arman who are levels above the one dimensional boxers/kickboxers so hard to question Islams dominance when he’s fought much tougher opponents. So unless you really critique than one KO loss Islam will be goat after Dustin win
@@GrubKiller436if he beats the next guy in line after Dustin he’ll have Oliveira, Volk 2x, Arman 2x and Dustin but your saying he’s on pare with Dustin RDA Justin and Connor.
Solid video but I have one gripe, not unique to this video but in a lot of GOAT conversations. I don’t think a lot of these guys need to match title defenses to make a goat argument. We’re entering the era of lifelong professional mma fighters and the quality of opponent stomps the quality of opponent of yesteryear. I think Leon beating a Shavkat or Ian Garry should be rated a lot more highly than GSP beating Josh Koscheck and Jake Shields. We should also look at where people were in their careers. I think that performance should be considered. If DDP slumps Jared Cannonier in R1 I rate that much more seriously than Izzy’s stinkfest wins over Cannonier and Vetori. Losses should also hurt your candidacy (Izzy’s losses to Strickland and Pereira hurt his 185 goat candidacy imo) Last but not least, we should also talk about pre-title wins, if the wins are of a comparable caliber. I don’t think it’s fair to talk about how Pantoja doesn’t have many routes to the title defense record without acknowledging that he pretty much cleaned out the division before touching the belt. I mostly agreed with these takes, but I feel like a lot of factors get left out of the goat discussions.
“Being the literal greatest fighter in an entire weight class of the literal deadliest men on the planet doesn’t mean that much” okay bro, also since heavyweight is the flukiest division and hardest to remain consistent in, wouldn’t 4 title defenses have greater value when compared to other divisions, also also dominick was a champion who defended the WEC belt multiple times factor that in he’s better than algo and tj by more than a hair
So funny that gsp gets so much love but gsp and his coach wait coaches all swear that khabib the best.. and that it would be wonderful that gsp who fought at a higher weight class might be able to beat khabib and also khabib and his coach/father had gsp as the goat and that khabib from the lighter weight class could beat gsp…
I think it's not jsut the number of defences but also they fashion of them wich matter. A run of dominant fights decisions and finishes is worth more than a run of split decisions and fluky finishes.
Man first of all your content is fire, second I am proud that I followed you for mma content as I became a new fan because of you, am here since 400 subs keep it up man🔥🔥🔥
Love your vids man but the amount of title defenses a fighter has ahouldnt be the number one requirement especially since dj level of competition wasnt good in his defenses i ghink pantoja can be the goat at 5 defenses
Topuria should’ve been D because he absolutely will not do it based on the fact he’s already talked about retiring early at like age 32 and is focused on big fights already like Islam and already is giving inactive vibes in terms of champions and Also the ima have 3-4 big fights than retire vibe
Saying Volk is over Jose because of opponent talent difference would be like saying the same for Izzy over Silva. Its like the opposite of boxing and how people view legends in that sport lol
Good point. In fact, Izzy fought Alex Pereira, lost, but also beat him in the rematch. I don't think Silva ever fought someone on the caliber of Alex Pereira.
Volk beat max 2-3x(the guy that waldo lost too twice and cleared his division for the champ and went up beat the 2nd rank LW)volk beat Aldo(the BW “goat”) then TKZ, Ortega, chad mendes, goes up competitive fight with an arguable LW goat goes back down defends against Yair then get koed a few months after then koed again by ilia. Aldo was beating chad mendes twice, TKZ, Ricardo lamas, urjiah faber, Frankie edger, tkz. Solid resume but his losses are what makes it hard to call him goat. He lost to every champion in his division outside of ilia at a non old age where volk only started loosing at 35(excluding first Islam fight) aldo got koed by Connor, Max twice koed and Volk UD.
Izzy also has better resume than Silva and has 8 title wins where Silva has 11 but it’s hard to count Silvas losses since he was fighting heavyweights at 40 years old and Silva never lost in ufc until he was like 38
@@ssglbc1875 I agree. Izzy should just keep fighting until he's 38 and then retire and then we might still debate who's the middleweight goat. But right now he's sitting out and it's giving him a bad look. He deserves a lot of credit for what he's accomplished.
If you could read your comment and use reasoning you could understabd that Volk was fighting the same way as the first time. Which is why short notice doesn’t count for some people,(like this guy). Volk could improved at all and not get caught with the Whittaker treatment.
@@hulkwithagun9749Volk was getting hit with that headkick his whole career, every match. No he wouldnt magically fix a lifelong habit in 3 months if he have not done it in last 3 years
How can you not count Islam vs Volk 2? Yes, it’s short notice but it’s literally the goat of Featherweight who was PFP #1 at the time and probably Top 10 or even Top 5 all time. Not that it’s not questionable but completely disregarding it makes no sense.
Pantoja, flyweight - 9% chance surpassing Mighty Mouse Sean O'Malley, bantamweight - 37% chance surpassing Dominic Cruz (he can get there but he'll have to be winning for at least like 4 more years) Illia, featherweight - 34% chance surpassing Alexander Volkanovski at this point (he has 0 title defenses rn and he will need to defend for years and against very good names. he has skills but rn he is acting like he wants to quit already) Islam, lightweight - 60% chance surpassing Khabib (has a decent chance as long as he stays there and rack up title defenses. Khabib was undefeated and dominated everyone. if Islam struggles, it will be a bad look) Leon Edwards, welterweight - 29% chance surpassing GSP (he hasn't lost since 2015, that's almost 10 years, and that loss was to Kamaru Usman, which he re-beat Kamaru twice, and that's also impressive. his division is tough rn. he'll have to beat Belal, and there's also a killer named Shavkat. he can surpass GSP but he'll probably have the hardest time due to the competition and he'll have to stay consistent in successful defenses. I can see him losing tbh. Leon does not have that GOAT aura. but if he manages to beat those killers, we'll start to look at him differently) Dricus Du Plessis, middleweight - 7% chance surpassing Anderson Silva (he's nowhere close and he barely squeezed a win from Sean Strickland. I'm not impressed. I can see Dricus losing soon) Alex Pereira, light heavyweight - 20% chance of surpassing Jon Jones (he beat the guys Jon should've fought when Jon disappeared minus a Dominic Reyes rematch. low chance but his current wins are seriously impressive. I don't know what else he can do to surpass Jon) Jon Jones, heavyweight - 3% chance of surpassing Stipe Miocic, 0.4% chance of surpassing Fedor Emelianenko (he's about to retire, 2 fights to be heavyweight GOAT is laughable) Tom Aspinall, heavyweight - 50% chance of surpassing Stipe Miocic, 8% chance of surpassing Fedor Emelianenko (he is the best heavyweight right now, and he has the skills to be the UFC heavyweight GOAT. but if he wants to surpass Fedor, he needs to be undefeated for the next 7+ years)
It's not only that though. I count Aldo's losses as affecting his goat status, which a lot of people don't. That's why they still have him as the goat, but it's a mistake to do that. Volk was only losing to the best of the best and at his now much older age.
Man your kind of a casual 😂😂😂 mma has advanced and fighters have gotten way better. The competition is way higher so these guys have to do WAY less than you say they do.
I completely disagree that the number of title defenses is the way to determine who is the best of all time in the division or the sport in general. I think there is so much to take into consideration like the competition or the era or the way they beat their opponents. For example, Islam having more title defenses than Khabib doesn't make him the best lightweight ever. Maybe on paper looking at title defenses and I know that this will sound like glazing but Khabib would have destroyed everyone else in that division easily. But if you're just looking at title defenses, sure. Also there is no way anyone in middleweight is gonna break Anderson Silva's title defenses but I don't think that completely diminishes everyone else who doesn't have as many title defenses for the argument of being the division goat. Also if Pereira actually becomes heavyweight champions he is definitely above Cormier lol no question about it.
This casual. Pantoja has already beaten many guys on his division. That seems like a standard for this you tubers criteria. But when it comes to Pantoja, just because his fantasy mathup against DJ thinks DJ smokes Pantoja, Pantoja is D?
lucas tracy is the best to ever do tire lists like this... this guy is such a casual acting hardcore you dont have to take every thing he says 100% maybe 5% cageside is 70% causal
Leon a D tier goat run? Fuck no. His only challenger prospects are only Russians, jdm, and sean Strickland for the “African king baby daddy belt” and “#1 Russian opp” What’s 1 juicy Hendricks, and a bisping alr worried abt Yoel I think. compared to 1/5 Russians. Belal 2, shavkat, Islam w/ a cleared LW! And sean is an honerary russian. And a champion khamzat. Leon the Russian vasectomy So any double champ to become goat tier has to be B tier
Bro's Chael son
If Islam beats poirer he is no debates tied or even slightly better, and if Arman he is no doubt the LW goat beating Charles and volk 2 alone damn near ties him and adding those 2 wins solidifies
He'd still be slightly worse.
Khabib was undefeated and dominated everybody. Apparently everyone is saying only one guy gave him a difficult time (Tibau). But compared that to Islam's actual KO loss. I think if Islam beats another person after Dustin, he may be tied or slightly better than Khabib. If he dominates them he'll be above Khabib. But if he struggles against that one (or even struggle against Poirier), then he will need to do extra work.
@@GrubKiller436khabib fought and beat Connor Dustin and Justin. Islam is fighting Oliveira volk and arman who are levels above the one dimensional boxers/kickboxers so hard to question Islams dominance when he’s fought much tougher opponents. So unless you really critique than one KO loss Islam will be goat after Dustin win
@@GrubKiller436if he beats the next guy in line after Dustin he’ll have Oliveira, Volk 2x, Arman 2x and Dustin but your saying he’s on pare with Dustin RDA Justin and Connor.
@@ssglbc1875 If he absolutely dominates Dustin Poirier, then yes everything yall have said is a fair point. But if he doesn't, then no.
Islam defeating Dustin would be a huge resume boost. Can’t lie
I think Oliveira arman and Volk are all better than Dustin though. Dustin’s just a bigger name
Or fan favorite
Solid video but I have one gripe, not unique to this video but in a lot of GOAT conversations.
I don’t think a lot of these guys need to match title defenses to make a goat argument.
We’re entering the era of lifelong professional mma fighters and the quality of opponent stomps the quality of opponent of yesteryear. I think Leon beating a Shavkat or Ian Garry should be rated a lot more highly than GSP beating Josh Koscheck and Jake Shields. We should also look at where people were in their careers.
I think that performance should be considered. If DDP slumps Jared Cannonier in R1 I rate that much more seriously than Izzy’s stinkfest wins over Cannonier and Vetori.
Losses should also hurt your candidacy (Izzy’s losses to Strickland and Pereira hurt his 185 goat candidacy imo)
Last but not least, we should also talk about pre-title wins, if the wins are of a comparable caliber. I don’t think it’s fair to talk about how Pantoja doesn’t have many routes to the title defense record without acknowledging that he pretty much cleaned out the division before touching the belt.
I mostly agreed with these takes, but I feel like a lot of factors get left out of the goat discussions.
Couldnt havw said it better👏pantoja beating rovyal is a better defense than most of djs i think pantoja needs 5 to compete with dj
@@dobronx-vl6ruyeah like look before his title defenses he beat Moreno2x Perez, manal kap and Royval
good comment
“Being the literal greatest fighter in an entire weight class of the literal deadliest men on the planet doesn’t mean that much” okay bro, also since heavyweight is the flukiest division and hardest to remain consistent in, wouldn’t 4 title defenses have greater value when compared to other divisions, also also dominick was a champion who defended the WEC belt multiple times factor that in he’s better than algo and tj by more than a hair
So funny that gsp gets so much love but gsp and his coach wait coaches all swear that khabib the best.. and that it would be wonderful that gsp who fought at a higher weight class might be able to beat khabib and also khabib and his coach/father had gsp as the goat and that khabib from the lighter weight class could beat gsp…
I think it's not jsut the number of defences but also they fashion of them wich matter. A run of dominant fights decisions and finishes is worth more than a run of split decisions and fluky finishes.
Man first of all your content is fire, second I am proud that I followed you for mma content as I became a new fan because of you, am here since 400 subs keep it up man🔥🔥🔥
Not counting the second volk fight cuz it's short notice is such a stupid take
People love volk so much they become openly biased.
especially since aspinall was able to beat one of the scariest prospects also on 10 days notice
@@adagiostan1938 Look at Flukas Glazy lol, he put him i think at top 3 all time or smth
@@EFDNorai mean that’s a good take lol, volk is easily top 5 and arguably top 3
he need to beat dustin and arman [agin] even only arman is better than all khabib wins
Spot on with a lot of these takes 🤘🏻
Love your vids man but the amount of title defenses a fighter has ahouldnt be the number one requirement especially since dj level of competition wasnt good in his defenses i ghink pantoja can be the goat at 5 defenses
totally agree. this guy is acting like title defenses is the be all end all of what makes someone the goat. terrible takes
To be fair Jones should easily go through Stipe and Pereira with his wrestling. You are completely right about the high risk low reward Aspinall fight
Topuria should’ve been D because he absolutely will not do it based on the fact he’s already talked about retiring early at like age 32 and is focused on big fights already like Islam and already is giving inactive vibes in terms of champions and Also the ima have 3-4 big fights than retire vibe
Islam basically is the lightweight GOAT already if he beats Dustin no argument
Saying Volk is over Jose because of opponent talent difference would be like saying the same for Izzy over Silva. Its like the opposite of boxing and how people view legends in that sport lol
Good point. In fact, Izzy fought Alex Pereira, lost, but also beat him in the rematch.
I don't think Silva ever fought someone on the caliber of Alex Pereira.
Volk beat max 2-3x(the guy that waldo lost too twice and cleared his division for the champ and went up beat the 2nd rank LW)volk beat Aldo(the BW “goat”) then TKZ, Ortega, chad mendes, goes up competitive fight with an arguable LW goat goes back down defends against Yair then get koed a few months after then koed again by ilia. Aldo was beating chad mendes twice, TKZ, Ricardo lamas, urjiah faber, Frankie edger, tkz. Solid resume but his losses are what makes it hard to call him goat. He lost to every champion in his division outside of ilia at a non old age where volk only started loosing at 35(excluding first Islam fight) aldo got koed by Connor, Max twice koed and Volk UD.
Izzy also has better resume than Silva and has 8 title wins where Silva has 11 but it’s hard to count Silvas losses since he was fighting heavyweights at 40 years old and Silva never lost in ufc until he was like 38
@@ssglbc1875 I agree. Izzy should just keep fighting until he's 38 and then retire and then we might still debate who's the middleweight goat. But right now he's sitting out and it's giving him a bad look. He deserves a lot of credit for what he's accomplished.
Does it rly matter if it was a short notice ? He kod him with the same head kick he caught him with in the first match
He accepted the fight n lost it counts
He fully blocked that headkick he just didn’t block high enough because that’s a fault he has
If you could read your comment and use reasoning you could understabd that Volk was fighting the same way as the first time. Which is why short notice doesn’t count for some people,(like this guy). Volk could improved at all and not get caught with the Whittaker treatment.
@@hulkwithagun9749Volk was getting hit with that headkick his whole career, every match. No he wouldnt magically fix a lifelong habit in 3 months if he have not done it in last 3 years
@@hulkwithagun9749the only advantage Islam had thanks to the short notice was physical since Islam also didn't have the time to revise a strategy
How can you not count Islam vs Volk 2? Yes, it’s short notice but it’s literally the goat of Featherweight who was PFP #1 at the time and probably Top 10 or even Top 5 all time. Not that it’s not questionable but completely disregarding it makes no sense.
You think Aspinall loses to Jon?!
Pantoja, flyweight - 9% chance surpassing Mighty Mouse
Sean O'Malley, bantamweight - 37% chance surpassing Dominic Cruz (he can get there but he'll have to be winning for at least like 4 more years)
Illia, featherweight - 34% chance surpassing Alexander Volkanovski at this point (he has 0 title defenses rn and he will need to defend for years and against very good names. he has skills but rn he is acting like he wants to quit already)
Islam, lightweight - 60% chance surpassing Khabib (has a decent chance as long as he stays there and rack up title defenses. Khabib was undefeated and dominated everyone. if Islam struggles, it will be a bad look)
Leon Edwards, welterweight - 29% chance surpassing GSP (he hasn't lost since 2015, that's almost 10 years, and that loss was to Kamaru Usman, which he re-beat Kamaru twice, and that's also impressive. his division is tough rn. he'll have to beat Belal, and there's also a killer named Shavkat. he can surpass GSP but he'll probably have the hardest time due to the competition and he'll have to stay consistent in successful defenses. I can see him losing tbh. Leon does not have that GOAT aura. but if he manages to beat those killers, we'll start to look at him differently)
Dricus Du Plessis, middleweight - 7% chance surpassing Anderson Silva (he's nowhere close and he barely squeezed a win from Sean Strickland. I'm not impressed. I can see Dricus losing soon)
Alex Pereira, light heavyweight - 20% chance of surpassing Jon Jones (he beat the guys Jon should've fought when Jon disappeared minus a Dominic Reyes rematch. low chance but his current wins are seriously impressive. I don't know what else he can do to surpass Jon)
Jon Jones, heavyweight - 3% chance of surpassing Stipe Miocic, 0.4% chance of surpassing Fedor Emelianenko (he's about to retire, 2 fights to be heavyweight GOAT is laughable)
Tom Aspinall, heavyweight - 50% chance of surpassing Stipe Miocic, 8% chance of surpassing Fedor Emelianenko (he is the best heavyweight right now, and he has the skills to be the UFC heavyweight GOAT. but if he wants to surpass Fedor, he needs to be undefeated for the next 7+ years)
All those percentages to say dumb shit like that lol.
Bro just making shit up
🦅🔝
Why do you say divisoon?
Honestly if leon beats shavkhat, hes already above kamaru.
nice
Good video nice channel keep it up 👍
Gongus 0:18
Title defenses ≠ greatness. Volks 5 defenses > aldos 7. Quality of opponents matter so much. So fucking biased
It's not only that though. I count Aldo's losses as affecting his goat status, which a lot of people don't. That's why they still have him as the goat, but it's a mistake to do that.
Volk was only losing to the best of the best and at his now much older age.
@@GrubKiller436 yea I left all of that out. Aldo shouldn’t be seen as the fw goat and you can argue max being above him but ion think so
Do time stamps bruv
Man your kind of a casual 😂😂😂 mma has advanced and fighters have gotten way better. The competition is way higher so these guys have to do WAY less than you say they do.
I completely disagree that the number of title defenses is the way to determine who is the best of all time in the division or the sport in general. I think there is so much to take into consideration like the competition or the era or the way they beat their opponents. For example, Islam having more title defenses than Khabib doesn't make him the best lightweight ever. Maybe on paper looking at title defenses and I know that this will sound like glazing but Khabib would have destroyed everyone else in that division easily. But if you're just looking at title defenses, sure. Also there is no way anyone in middleweight is gonna break Anderson Silva's title defenses but I don't think that completely diminishes everyone else who doesn't have as many title defenses for the argument of being the division goat. Also if Pereira actually becomes heavyweight champions he is definitely above Cormier lol no question about it.
are u related to chael sonnen?
Hes chaels nephew
Yep, cheal is his uncle
BJ Penn is the LW GOAT
We need that channel of yours to start popping more. It's great
W
If it wasn't short notice Islam's shin would've shattered.
Same shirt from like 2 days ago?... nice
Do u throw your shirts away after wearing them
@@yusufiftyafshanhusanjr5125 no. I appreciate the fact that he respects us enough to dress nicely for the vids.
I can't consider jon the goat of anything
Agreed
Goat of the courtroom
@@adamwolf2376 im pretty sure thats the only time he lost
This casual. Pantoja has already beaten many guys on his division. That seems like a standard for this you tubers criteria. But when it comes to Pantoja, just because his fantasy mathup against DJ thinks DJ smokes Pantoja, Pantoja is D?
Khabib team 👇
Dude, enough hate for Khabib in your clips. It is very clear that you hate him. Stop. You disgust me
3 million
lucas tracy is the best to ever do tire lists like this... this guy is such a casual acting hardcore you dont have to take every thing he says 100% maybe 5% cageside is 70% causal
Fr
Lucas' takes on his version of this video were terrible too
Your opinion at hogdshit I unsubscribed
what?
Leon a D tier goat run? Fuck no. His only challenger prospects are only Russians, jdm, and sean Strickland for the “African king baby daddy belt” and “#1 Russian opp”
What’s 1 juicy Hendricks, and a bisping alr worried abt Yoel I think. compared to 1/5 Russians. Belal 2, shavkat, Islam w/ a cleared LW! And sean is an honerary russian. And a champion khamzat.
Leon the Russian vasectomy
So any double champ to become goat tier has to be B tier
The only Russian challenger he has is Islam. Khamzat isn’t moving back down to welterweight he’s too big and shavkat isn’t a Russian
What the hell are you even saying, I can't understand 🤣