Why the 8KW diesel heater can't be 8KW.
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- Maths. A 4KW heater running at 4.2Hz uses about 340ml of diesel in an hour. Which is about 3.5KW coming out as hot air.
Aiming for a true 8KW of hot air we need to burn around 780ml (probably more) of diesel per hour. The typical "22ml" pump isn't big enough but we can swap out to a "65ml" and run slower. 65ml pump running at 3.3Hz puts in 772ml of diesel. Which would be fine, except the fan that supplies the combustion air can't spin fast enough to supply enough air to burn all that fuel.
So what it actually does is make about 5KW of hot air and a lot of black smoke and carbon monoxide.
Alarm goes wild - Dave doesn't leave the workshop. Ready to die in a blaze of glory. Legend.
real smart to breath all those toxins
So if you order the "8kW" heater, they must ship two units. Nice one. Risking life and limb for a video...very noble!
HAHAHAHAHAHHA
You're right. The fuel pumps on these units don't move adequate fuel oil to be burned. A gallon of fuel oil provides 138,000 BTU/hr, and a liter 36,450 BTU/hr. Eight kilowatts of heat is 3412 x 8 or 27,300 BTUhr. The burn rate of one of these 8 kw units is rarely over 500 ml per hour so it's likely that they are much closer to 4 or 5 kW.
Just wanted to say thank you for all your videos on these heaters. So, thankyou.
The irony is that despite this prooven evidence a lot of people still believe they are buying an 8kw heater.
Well I did read that it was those blue clocks that you have only come on a 5kw and 8kw. I’ve got said 5kw with an entirely different module which is black and the seller sold it as 5kw. So I believed and so I’m happy as it works a charm. So if it’s 4kw it’s not the end of the world but I’m glad you have cleared up the theory of the 8kw as I was just about to order the blue module you have. Thank you for saving me a few quid. 😊
You always entertain me with these videos...I dont even own my diesel heater anymore...tehe
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. Eberspacher does make a 8kw diesel air heater and it's called the D8 and yes it is a lot bigger than the 5kw heaters that the Chinese make .
Thank you David for telling the truth...U rock bro!!!
. . . . . . . . Flash Backs of the Chernobyil control room. . . . . . " your scientists where so preoccupied whether they could, they never asked whether they Should". . . . . . . Meanwhile in a small tin shed on the central belt, Donnie Murdo (DM) cranked that "плохой-Balloch" up to 11...!
When I had my first CDH.(I have 3 now)Lol
I compared its fuel consumption with the Mikuni 3.5 Air Heater..MY30 Model which is of similar design.
the Mikuni produced d3.5 KW IN heat output and 4.25 KW of heat in Total including the Heat that went out through the Exhaust.
the CDH appears to use slightly less Fuel than the MY30....so I considered the "5KW " as Approx.3.3 KW actual Heat output to the area.....and approx 750-850 W. to the Exhaust.
I have an MY30 in my ambulance camper 👍 i love it, way easier to service than than an eber and seperate ECU safer on overheat situations 👍
Allways enjoy the vids David 😎
having bought 2 vevor branded heaters; one being 8kw and the other being 5kw, they're definitely the same units, however the noticeably difference was that the 8kw's chamber body casting was near perfect where the 5kw has some cracked, bent, malformed fins on the outside(inside looks fine) suggesting it was probably made with an older casting mold..... my theory unless proven otherwise is that the casting quality is the main determining factor of what they rate the units; of course like with computer cpu benching at factory there's probably occasions where they they rate according to demand ** ironically the 5kw puts out more heat quickly right now, but it's understandable as I've been running used engine oil and I've had it for a shorter amount of time:P
Did you do anything to it or the oil to run it on used engine oil?
Does the "8kW" unit measure up? 1kWh = 3.6MJ. There is about 37MJ/L in Diesel. Since all these heaters are rated by consumption, not output, the quality of the heatsink is unlikely to factor into the rating. It would need to burn (3.6*8)/37 litres [~780mL] per hour to be an actual 8kW unit.
Thanks for all info, will try to get some money back on a "8kw" heater that i brought.
Thanks for the info, just bought a "5KW" diesel heater!
you deffo need to get that bad boy cooking, that would be superb :). love the videos man
Since you are perhaps one of the most educated people alive concerning these heaters and their variants... Out of all the heaters and controllers you have tested, which ones did you like the most? Value aside, what did you find the best built, worked the best, most useful controller kind of scenario?
Great video! Proofing things wrong with maths 😆😁 It makes you wonder if you modified the heater, what the maximum KWs you could get out of it. Bigger fan, bigger fuel pump, etc. A realistic test and a unrealistic, glowing red hot, test 😀
He said it shuts down when it gets to hot so you would have to override the controller some how.
2 pumps will do 8kw
how about making your own heater, extra large parts all around ? . . . . maybe out of old automotive parts ? . . . i love you and your videos Brother 🌺 keep on rockin !
I love that model controller. Luckily it is the one I got. So glad they made a model that lets us choose between Celsius and Fahrenheit. I made a video on how to change it from Celsius to Fahrenheit.
Cheers from Australia
I would think that using the filtered air from a shop vac to increase the air pressure to the air intakes would give you the extra air you need, for the extra fuel.
That's not a bad idea at all.
@@DavidMcLuckie Since you have the top off of one of the heaters for a viewing window, you might thread a cover plate of aluminum for a heated automotive O2 sensor.
Might give you some useful adjustment data.
I had an idea that I think could drastically increase the burn efficiency and therefor heat output. Take a small copper line and wrap it around the exhaust. Then replace the existing fuel line with that. The idea is you will boil the fuel and inject the fumes into the burn chamber. The same way a camping diesel jet stove works. In a home oil furnace you use high pressures and a nozzle to atomizer the oil. This thing just dribbles fuel onto a hot mesh. You'd then be injecting fumes into the burn chamber. That will mix with air and burn much easier. It should clear up some head room for the fan since you are using air more effectively. With that, you have room to add even more fuel so long as it can boil it fast enough. This might also fix the sooting problem when these run on low.
I guess you could get 8Kw out of a 4Kw heater; what’s the heat output of the burning case material (i know that Ali doesn't burn in solid form, only as a powder) but the plastic and PCB would give off some heat - this may invalidate any warranty, but this is stuff shipped from China, so good luck with any claim.
Great content as ever 👍
I guess you are not old enough to remember HMS Sheffield during the Falklands war? Of course Aluminium will burn. Aluminium powder is a solid, is it not?
I have rather liked most of David’s videos on these CDHs (or should it be CDAH for chinese diesel air heater?) since I came across his channel. Sometimes whacky (wacky if you’re younger) but I have found his channel so much more interesting, honest and knowledgeable cf the average van-dweller, etc.
I thought you weren't doing any more diesel videos? 😂👌👍. Thank you!
Just no more on the heat exchanger. We've still got more to do with the other heaters. :)
Great video as always. Happy Xmas 🙏
don't care for the science / maths / theory stuff .. but a diesel heater glowing red - hot & possibly melting the aluminium casing , oh now i'm interested
I just learned about these heaters a few months ago. Thank you for all the information.
If I could do the maths to show this works at 8kw, I'd be a statistician working for the Inland Revenue
I have recently had a chance to use my new large frame heater. Most of the accessories are SHITE ! The heater puts out huge heat while on the bench, however overheats when attached to ducting other than whats provided in the kit. too much back pressure must be the culprit. Maybe a auxiliary 3 inch duct motor connected to a Y would help move the heat out.
Nicely done!
Could you revisit the tuneing video. I think people would be interested in getting the 5kw heater to run as low as possible since it heats people out of their vehicles and such. With many people running like that for long periods of time. How low can these really go and can the fan speed be matched so it doesn't just soot up so fast?
don't do it! it soots up and you'll be replacing atomizers and burn chambers too frequently. i downgraded to a 2kw. why would you want an oversized furnace?
i have one running right now none stop all winter and its heating a one and a half car garage
works pretty darn good for its size and fuel usage
I'm not sure whether these can be called 'efficient' convenient certainly but definitely not getting every btu from the fuel. If I consider what my Cummins 6bt puts work wise out per litre not counting the wasted heat from the exhaust, my little 5kw heater seems quite thirsty in comparison to the work it does.
But ... It beats chopping wood and using beautifully clean coal. Convenience at a cost..
So a typical diesel engine is about 30-40% efficient at converting the energy in the diesel into usable (rotational) energy. Now as we want to create heat from burning the diesel we can work out how much fuel went in and how much heat came out. Which is roughly 80% efficient.
You can't ignore the heat wasted in an engines exhaust. That's all part of the efficiency calculation. If we ignore the heat lost out the diesel heaters exhaust it's 100% efficient. But we are comparing apples to oranges.
@@DavidMcLuckie David, what are your thoughts on running the exhaust through an 8 foot piece of hydronic baseboard before it goes outside? You would capture some of the heat loss making it more efficient, correct? Thank you, Mark
Great video!
To get that rpm you would need a rc brushless motor
I like that idea. :)
If you can't get enough air into it to make it burn enough fuel, it's time for forced induction. Turbo that baby 🤣
If you set the controller at 2 magnets on the fan but have only 1 magnet wouldn't that double the fan speed?
I was wondering about that too.
Test it?
@@gmc3019 yep, agree. It might just halve it instead!
i bought the so called 8 kw last year i only paid $90 for it . It is the suitcase one all packed in the red case and check this out the one I found on Ebay had an all Aluminum body the whole dam thing isent that cool AF!
Since you like to experiment with these, What would happen if you put a blower on it and run it at a leaner pump setting? Would you get more heat (but be able to regulate meltdown temp) and better fuel efficiency. I look forward to seeing what you find out.
Hey they are 8KW but that’s Chinese KW lol. I have a so called 8WK heating my lounge which is roughly 14ft x 14ft and 1.8hz is nice and toasty. I use a diesel heater because it’s the cheapest form of heating where we don’t have gas and electric is way too expensive and coal is a pain so red diesel does nicely.
10.5k.....? I'm looking forward to the results.
Please make it spin more I want to see what happens at 8kw
For 10,000rpms, or more, one would require high precision bearings - apart from a robust and highly balanced fans (yes, both of them).
great spin a fan at 10000rpm lol
Yeah...What he said! 😂
Always wondered why you were such a healthy colour!😳
Holy alarms ha ha ha!
What a Stress Video. Like a German U- Boot in WW2 at 300 Meter
Advertised when i purchased my Heater the Ad said 8 kw lol oh well im sure many hundreds got suckered as i did. Im not going to complain tho my heater has worked flawlessly for about a month.
David, Just purchased a new diesel heater. The shell around the heater is cast metal? Two pieces that split in half. Have you ever seen this? What is the benefit of the metal case? I think your energy physics are spot on. Keep burning the Dino Juice!
The metal can't melt under normal operation. Other than that there isn't a huge advantage over reinforced plastic shells.
May be they were some how mistaking, latent heat versus specific heat versus Real power or just the plucking of thin air 8Kw rating
I'll take thin air for $100
Chinese unit is a Kirowatt - much smaller than a Kilowatt
My 8kw has 5kw cast into the body. 😀 It’s okay though I got it cheap from an amazon return scammer err reseller!
same here buddy o well !
Much like anything measured in Watts from china, they're always over-inflated, like huge LED bulbs claiming to be 500 watts, but running at 50 watts, because china... :P
you had to choose the LEDs eh? they're pretty difficult to compare, most people will buy a 500W bulb thinking it'll be equal to a 500W MH or sodium bulb but then end up burning their plants.
it's like hard drives being sold as 2TB but only 1.8TiB.
you're just confused.
put a leaf blower on the air in , give it an air turbo boost lol
Thanks again David. Have you any knowledge of chamber burn through on long term use of these cheap heaters.
Steve
Haha!! David you are a total nutter, I'm surprised you didn't have the fire, police, ambulance, bomb squad and every other service at your workshop with all those alarms going off 😨😂😂
Anyway, new subscriber to your channel as I have one of those so called 8KW heaters (mine is a fully cased unit) in my workshop and small homemade spray booth, the heater is amazing and gets my booth up to 27C when it was 3C outside and that was this morning, however I do/did have a problem with it. I got the heater in early September this year and last week it started pushing out clouds of white smoke from the exhaust (just under 3 months daily use about an hour per day). I took the heater apart and the burn chamber was totally caked in black soot and it was caked inside the tube where the flame comes out, gave it a good clean then rebuilt it as it was without changing any parts and it's back working as good as new.
Any ideas what could be causing all that soot build up in a short time? when I bought it I also got one of those laptop type power supplies that said it was a 10 amp supply but I'm not convinced it's up to the job. I have a 50 amp power supply that I use for charging batteries for my large scale heli's so I now use that for powering the heater, it says on the power supply that it's drawing up to 9 amps when the glow plug is on.
Anyway David sorry for the long comment but I wanted to give you all the info I could about my heater problem, I'll see how it goes on the bigger power supply (been 3 or 4 days now) but if you have any other ideas what the issue is I would be very grateful 🤗👍 John UK.
My guess would be it's not tuned properly is wasting fuel turning it into soot. I've got a few videos on tuning, but the basic is a cheap carbon monoxide gauge and you turn down the fuel in the settings until you get 10-20ppm of carbon monoxide on the gauge.
Thanks for the quick reply David, I had a feeling you were going to say that! I have watched your tuning videos so I'll get a co meter to see what it's pushing out, I have a co meter in my workshop but it's just the normal type that warns you so reacts to slow for testing, thanks again David 👍 oh am I right in thinking that the pass code for the lcd controller is 1688? 🤔
Thank you for the diesel heater videos, they have answered so many of my questions.
I do have a question about filters for these heaters that I can't find on youtube, can you use a automotive filter with a water separator or a filter for a oil furnace?
How about those inline filters with the paper medium? Or is the filter medium of these filters to dense for the pulse pump to draw through?
That's a good question. Even the inline filters I have now are plastic mesh.
I have a lawnmower filter on mine and it works fine.
If you look at the installation directions you should find the maximum lift for the pump. You could work out the physical values if you care to, but suffice it to say they don’t give these limits for no good reason. For oils heavier than diesel, that head would be diminished - or definitely place the fuel tank above the heater (and that could cause problems…).
Recently changed a mikuni heater to a 5kw Chinese heater on my boat but I'm getting good heat,but poor air flow, would it be possible to increase the fan speed
Where’s the best price for a 2kw heater. I don’t want any bigger as it will be too much for a small vehicle
David, based on your experience of the combustion chamber, can the diesel heater be mounted in a wall vs the floor which would make the exhaust /intake ports horizontal. Do see any issues mounted it in a wall. Thanks, love your videos.
You can run the heater on it's side as long as you keep the glow plug on the top.
@@DavidMcLuckie Thank you David, glow plug upwards.
Ha makes me want to test the one I have. 😅 it's a "5kw" one but it's the bigger size of the 2. But jeez 10k rpms we have cncs than can do that unloaded they use 1.2kw just to spin that fast than the makinos have a 300hp spindle in them that go's up to 32k I believe and the modigs can hit 40k
The heater forums don't even recommend running the heaters at 5000rpm. But I'm keen to see just how fast it will spin. :)
@@DavidMcLuckie run her till she go's just make sure a bearings are lubed up. Should hit up photonicinduction for a little help he's good at blowing stuff up
Dig these videos, learning a ton, thanks. Question for anyone that has the Chinese 5kw or 8kw heaters, what is the size of the duct that attaches to the end? Is it 90mm? I live onboard a boat with two Webasto EVO 55s, and every season I suffer multiple breakdowns. Its just a fact of life at this point. It’s probably a regional fuel issue that I can’t escape. Thing is, these Chinese knock offs cost less that a burner kit for the EVOs. I’m considering switching out to the Chinese ones simply because for my normal season parts cost on the Webastos (in the US). I can buy 5 Chinese units and treat them as disposable. The only thing I’m concerned about is mating the ductwork and exhaust from the Webasto to the Chinese units. Possibly the mounting bracket too. Any advice is appreciated, Thanks
75mm. I'd hope that you'd be able to get a reducer to get the pipe to fit.
There is likely more than one reason for the larger ducting. Distance,to point of heating, is a major factor that the ‘parking heaters’ don’t (or shouldn’t) need to take any account of.
Does settings sn2 on some switches double fan speed lm not sure what it was for maybe to run 8kw with large fuel pumps?
Hellooooooo David. Can you supply me a link to a hydronic pump that you have found suitable to buy?
Thanks Steve in BC Canada.
Time to turbo it! 🤣
So I wonder what amount of energy the heat exchanger body can actually exchange. That's another interesting factor. Let alone if it can burn 8kw of energy/fuel. It wouldn't be impossible to make a DIY heater??
Could you run multi hot water tests to see which setting is most efficient for the body. It'll give you then the efficiency curve if plotted.
If you can't get enough air in feed in a mix of oxygen and also run away as it'll melt I suspect. Haha.
You need an oxygen enriched environment to get this working! 😜
With a "28ml" pump in a very cold environment I think it should be possible to get near 8kW output.
Ive a video suggestion: can the burner and heater exchanger be rotated 180o so the exhaust points up so a hotplate/box can be used to Cook on? (Im thinking the hot box would have an outlet so the exhaust pipe still goes down).
Thanks for making the videos, im always learning something :)
no
Hi David, I'm typing from Italy. I wonder if is possible to transform this heater from hot air to only hot water (Basically trasforming him into a pseudo boiler). Thanks in advance for the reply.
I have the wabasto 9kw unit .. do you know how many kw they produce.. thanks David 🔥
hi good videos as always have you any idea why i can smell exhaust fumes coming out of the air outlet have replaced all the gaskets but still smells
Have you checked the rubber 'plug' that the glowplug wires run through, that's the only other place where you might get fumes as the heaters starts up. Other than that a cracked casing.
BULLOX!! I have an "8kw heater" On high my diesel consumption shows 6kw output.
Wondering if you have any data on the glowplugs in these? What temperature do they reach, how much power etc?
David McLuckie VEVOR Diesel Air Heater 12V 8KW just received this today as it gets hot it blows out a weird smell it might have sucked up sawdust by accident but maybe not?? from your experience do these units put off a weird smell for a while
The heaters not usually. But I've had plastic melting smells come from some air vent covers in the past.
I got a 5jw gasoline heater today, but the manufacturer routed the pump wire and plug trough the fresh air inlet pipe. I think to prevent me from drilling an additional hole for it but doesnt that get hot? I want to know before installing.
That's interesting. The intake side doesn't get hot.
So that's mean there is no reason to buy this one instead of the 5 since they're the same.
I got a "8kw" heater.
But I got several questions now.
- When I'm in the parameter, (Admin code 1688), I see SN: 1 / 2 for the magnet on the fan, but what's PF: 5?
- I set the lower Hz to 1000, so it should consume only 2.2cl per second and so 132cl per hour, and at the maximum (in the parameter) it's 5500hz so it should consume 726cl per hour (2.2*5.5*60). This last is close to what you said (777cl) and consumption are, with a big approximation, around 100cl/hour/kw. So that's technically close enough to the 8Kw?
- Anyway, I set it to low with a temperature I want to maximum 15°C, but it's already over 20°C and it continue to warm. Does the thermostat really work or I should do something else to ensure to not go too high in temperature? Could I drop it to 800Hz or it will be too low to work properly?
- And to finish, did yours smell burning rubber when they're hot?
Thanks a lot for your nice videos, I just found you searching for these answer, but I finally got subscribed.
PF-5 is the power level selection for the glow plug. 1=35w 2=40w 3=45w 4=80w 5=85w 6=90w
You've confused the fan rpm 1000-5500 for the hz.
The thermostat only switches the heater from low to high power.
@@DavidMcLuckie No I didn't confuse the RPM with Herz. I can show you a video where I can choose between 800 and 8000hz and the fan rpm between 1000 and 5500.
Just a bout the information, I dismantled it and I've seen that my fan got 2 magnets on it but in the parameter they said I was on 1.
About the rubber smell, I took it off and put some high temperature silicon instead and then put it back in place. Now It doesn't smell anymore.
But yeah, technically for the pump I can go up to 8000 hz but even if I parameter it lower or higher, I can't do it when I'm off the parameter. (And I don't speak about the RPM, but only about the power).
I apologise then. It must be the controller that is programmed with the wrong units. As we can agree the pump will not pump at 8000hz.
@@ktexsite Hertz is the term for cycles per second in the SI system.
What about a webasto 30kw? :)
Hi David. I’m looking to replace the pump on my 2kw. Should I go for a 22ml or 16ml. I’ve a rotary so can’t tinker with the settings… any thoughts? Merry Xmas btw
It's likely it came with a 22ml, the majority of heaters did. If you go to small it might flame out on the low settings.
@@DavidMcLuckie Thanks David. I’ve recently found you and throughly enjoy your videos!
QUESTION ? Can i tap into my main vech. exhaust ( before the muffler ) and run it that way ??? I would drill the hole on a angle so it shoots the exhaust into the direction of the muffler :) Peace and thanks for any advice on this idea :)
Good question. My only concern would be vehicle exhaust gas running up into the heater. Small chance of making through to the blower fan and melting it.
I’ve thought about this too, I’d be concerned about disruption to the heater, Venturi effects could suck through the heater messing with a/f ratios or back pressure messing by causing back flow. Pretty sure even a tiny bit of either would be game over!
@@keithb5708 Yeah agree, it's a bad idea and not really a good reason to do it as opposed to separate exhausts. Don't do it VL, hey, are you just waitin' for a mate? 🍻
Why there are all this alarms go wild ..did you throught exhaust gas inside or there is a problem with the unit?
As the 8KW heater does not exist and in trying to make it run at 8KW produced enough carbon monoxide to kill you fairly quickly. That and it would fill your heater with soot.
@@DavidMcLuckie yes it produce CO but all the exhaust gas should go out not insidey question is if you throught the exhaust gas inside your area just for the test or there is a leak on the Unit
Inside for testing, else how would I be testing the CO? :)
You should always have a CO alarm if you have any fuel burning appliance.
@@DavidMcLuckie οκ now i understand because i think to buy one of them for my home and i am a little worry about the exhaust gas in case of a leak in some gasket .This is a 150 euros device and it dont give me enought confident
Is there a thermostat in the controller? I used mine for the time last weekend and it got so hot in my truck. I’m thinking of extending the controller into my truck so it’ll shut off when it reaches the set temp if there’s a thermostat in there.
Yes, but it doesn't switch the heater off. Only switches it onto low speed once the temperature is reached.
Don’t shut it off with a thermostat unless the heater can follow its normal shut-down procedure.
Hello Good Man. I purchased a 5kw unit with ch14 controller. Do you know what the 3 digit code for advanced menu is? Thanks in advance
3 digit code? I haven't seen one of them.
@@DavidMcLuckie it is blue control. But it has heater icon in screen center and no network icon at top left. Battery icon left of heater icon. Maybe it is a 4 digit. Cant seem to access a advanced menu.
Why are they lying to us? I read that there is no 8KW heater.
Hello. How do you reset the gas detector? I have one and it tells me that I have to send it to reset at the point of sale or manufacturer.
I don't know, but I wonder what happens if you pull the battery out, wait a while then replace it?
If it's a GMI it needs to go back to GMI for recalibration.
@@DavidMcLuckie It's a gas alert. and yes, I think you should go back to the manufacturer to calibrate.
Do the 2kw and 4kw use the same 22ml pump?
Yes. And some people think they shouldn't. There is a smaller 16ml pump which is probably better suited to the 2KW. But for cheapness 95% of heaters ship with the 22ml.
Hi david, where can i buy those portable testers for various gases ?
Ebay
Yes i know, but i am trying to find out name and model numbers of equipment that you are using, sorry for confusion
The small one is a GMI PS200 and the bigger one is a GMI PS500. Both are long overdue a calibration, but still work for what I need.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you 🙏
8kw heater has really 6.5kw adjusted with combustion analyzer
That's not what I found.
Yes can get 8kw.
Buy 2 heaters and run same time. There your 8kw’s ! Ha !
here is a challenge for you. take one and make it run on propane. as for mine the max fuel rate is capped buy the board in the heater and not the controller. temp feedback from body temp sensor. capped at 425 F.
Dude, you gotta start taking this seriously. Diesel exhaust is nastier than regular gasoline exhaust. "long-term exposure to diesel exhaust particles poses the highest cancer risk of any toxic air contaminant".
I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
Who would imagine a Chinese product would market with falsehoods and lies.
Did you know China exports all kinds of processed food, read the labels!
As if the food labels are any more truthful.🤣
Thinking about it guessing you meant don’t buy food stamped China on the label.