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Do or Don't: The Horus Heresy
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2022
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30k special 3k subs after it should've happened. But lets still see if the Horus Heresy is worth getting into!
00:0 - Intro
1:12 - Background
2:45 - Lore Positives
5:26 - Tabletop Positives
8:00 - Lore Negatives
9:57 - Tabletop Negatives
14:12 - Conclusion
14:51 - Russy
Music:
Age of Empires: Track 5
Warhammer 40,000 Mechanicus: Children of the Omnissiah
Domina: Domina
Dawn of War II: Angels of Death
Rome Total War: Romantic Battle, Arms of Drums, The Enemy is Near
In case you missed it I am once again here to remind you that Magnus did many things wrong.
isn't that background music from that pixel gladiator game
Magnus did so many things wrong but Daddy "Don't worry boys I'm just going home because no reason" Emperor is free of sin. The Imperial Creed said so!
Magnus in lore: "I fucked up so bad, I'll let Leman Russ kill everyone on Prospero to repent for what I have done...."
Fandom: "GUYS MAGNUS NEVER EVER-"
Yo man my question is why you looking at fem russ lmao, not that I'm judging just.... *curious*
69 k milestone
I almost spat out my water seeing those Horus Heresy prices, for that knight price I can buy a high end resin printer, buy the STLs to print it and still have money left over to fly to GW’s head quarters to shit in their mailbox
The first thing I did when I saw those prices was decide to learn how to use Blender to make my own bootleg army and take commissions to fund the printer and paint. Life kinda put that dream on hold for me, but I can't be the only one inspired to pick up 3D modeling.
@@CMElliotte I personally don't care much (right now at least) for the modeling side of things, but printing things out is certainly worth it.
@@CMElliotte normal Warhammer prices range from fair to acceptable if a bit pushing it. But those prices honestly piss me off a bit. While I wouldn’t take up fully 3D modelling, combination of kitbashing, 3D model files, modifying said files slightly combine together to cover most things if not all
I mean, they are a forgeworld specialist game brand game. Absurdly prohibitively expensive is the order of the day for their resin mortgages.
or pay literally 1/3rd the price and buy the exact same model from a recaster
"Female Lemen Russ got me thinking the Space Wolves ain't that bad."
-A man of great wisdom and culture
There is an entire art range of the genderswapped Primarchs, and they are glorious.
@@kevlonk
Female konrad Curze is top tier edgy, bloodthirsty wiafu!
WOLFTITS
@@navilluscire2567 agreed. i personally like female lorgar's look. the hair really fits the priestly aesthetic
HERESY!
"Did he think Russ just wanted to be an asshole to him over the phone?"
Given the relationship these two had? Yes.
Russ makes a phoneprank befor destroying Prospero
I mean...yeah, what kind of question is that Majorkill!? They already seriously didn't like each other!
Fulgrim: "I heard from a contact on Mars, Jaghatai, that you do strange things to your ships."
The Khan shot him a heavy-lidded stare. "I heard you do strange things to your warriors."
Nice video as always king
Jaghatai Khan being cooler than everyone else once again
Jaghatai:"I don't give a shit."
Imperial commander:"But..."
Jaghatai:"not a single shit."
Or something like that i think.
What did he do to the ships?
@@lordofchangelulz6645 probably made the mechanicus strap more engines to make it go fast
“Look at you, trying to save your sons. What a weirdo you are.”
Jaghatai’s roast falls apart when you look at the actual context behind the “strange things to your sons” line comes in.
‘Anything special about malcador? Not really’ except he’s immortal and a Psyker second only to the emperor himself
I definitely could’ve explained it better but there was nothing that made him that way in the way 40K usually makes a character special. There’s no prophecy, there’s no augmentations/he’s not awesome because he’s a space marine and if he wasn’t he’d be a nobody. He’s just a kickass guy.
@@pancreasnowork9939 I completely understand, honestly hes one of the very few examples of a 'normal guy' except maybe ol Ollanius Pius. I was mainly just being pretentious lol.
@@steppecist2928 always see CZcamsrs only reply like once. What too good to have a conversation with your lowly subscribers?
@@zanethompson3191 Its a weird rule lol
@@zanethompson3191 Well consider how many people comment and the dudes got more things going on then having a full blown conversation with everyone. Also, one comment responses are far more than other CZcamsrs.
Especially the weird cultish nicknames some give their fans. It’ll never be not weird for dream to acknowledge some of his fans as kittens.
Eh, I hate how they made 30k into 40k-lite. Instead of the Great Crusade era being this mythical coming of a new golden age that was sadly ended, it just ends up as a slightly better off 40k imperium. Like you mean to tell me they had cherubs and a bunch of other stuff like that while the Emperor was spreading his religion bad message?
It's because they took the safe and cheap way out at the complete cost of story quality and wrote a setting that would appeal to the established fans. The 30k setting should have been utterly unrecognizable from 40k in aesthetic and partially in substance, but that might have alienated people who were fans of the main setting's style and tone. It should have been more overtly a """hard""" sci-fi, glory to science and progress and flashy lights in name, but with the obvious rot of authoritarianism and ironic bigotry in practice. It should have been a complete deconstruction of "the ends justify the means". And most of all, there should have been ZERO religious imagery or word choices. Why is HERETIC used in the atheistic IoM? There's some cool moments and lore but it was not handled well and it's absurdly past the point of being able to walk it back.
Absolutely agree. If you gave me passages from a 30K novel and a 40K novel, divorced from context, I wouldn't be able to tell which was which just from characterization and world-building.
For example: I really liked the novel (Alpha) _Legion,_ it's probably one of the better ones in the Horus Heresy. But even in there, you can Alpharius + Omegon accusing people of heresy. Despite being at the height of Big-E's anti-religion campaign. WTF?
@@Oppen1945 I Feel that it stopped being a parody by third edition and now GW want us to take it seriously.
@@Oppen1945 40k is a paradoy of the British Empire. Like New Zealanders being brought over to fight the Ottomans in WW1; Crank that up to 11 and we have a no name planet sending conscripts to fight some one else's war on another no name planet.
@@onua2012sga I think Alan Bligh did a fantastic job laying the foundation of the setting, and really captured the ethos of an empire tearing itself apart before its idiosyncrasies, where it starts to not work is in the the novelization. While generally serviceable, it was wildly inconsistent and at times needlessly convoluted, I was also really disappointed that the more coldly utilitarian dimension of the Imperium's "golden age" didn't pop up more often in them, though the HH Black Books have a *lot* of juicy tidbits spread across that sell this facet better.
As for the faith thing, I think that the Last Church more or less answers the religiosity within the Imperium's nominal atheism. Humanity has a nearly pathological need to believe in a greater power, and even a militant crackdown on superstition can itself carry religious undertones when it becomes a dogma; their actions are Heretical to the Imperium's militant atheism, which they pursue with the same fervor as a religious zealot.
What's interesting is that there actually is *some* historical precedent for such a situation in revolutionary France. One of its many short lived governments tried to set up a Cult of Reason following 1789 as a state sponsored Atheistic religion, one that championed human concepts of liberty and reason, and was meant to supplant the recently dispossessed French Catholic church. It didn't take off, and was actually outlawed by Napoleon a decade later, but as a concept I see it echoed in the Imperium's early days.
To be fair to the Emperor not caring about his sons, they pretty much just created that concept as an element of ambiguity that could remain in the Heresy; from the stories I've read, it totally depends on the individual son, usually, if the son hates the Emperor, the Emperor appears to respond in kind.
I've been going down the HH lore hole these last two years and sometimes it really feels like some of the Primarchs are complaining about the Emperor not caring about what they want just because they were too scared to disagree with him to his face (or whatever the interstellar equivalent of that is). Yeah, the Emperor's not gonna win Father of the Year anytime soon, but it wouldn't've killed Perturabo to just do what he wants like Guiliman or Jaghatai instead of following orders and whining about it all day.
Like the Thunder Warriors ?
While true Angron was legit fucked over by Big E
@@shuvodipbarua6001 HH lore is super contradictory because the writers are given too much leeway by Black Library. It's less the Emperor is schizophrenic and it's much more that certain authors have different ideas of what he should be. The Emperor is a huge dick in Master of Mankind because it's author hates the guy.
he didn't kill angron I woulda my less crazy friend would have too he was less than worthless
Horus Heresy. otherwise known as the space marine game, with even more space marines and only space marines
It would legitimately help the Horus Heresy setting if GW backed wayyyy off with space marines in the 40k setting. If space marines were weird, hyper-violent, mutant space monks that were as terrifying as they were rare, then a setting of them in their pre-devolved glory would actually be kind of fun.
@@onua2012sga Yeah I don't want to rant about predominance of space marines, both loyalist and to a lesser extent chaos, in 40k. I'll really say I wish it was less pronounced, like how stormcast are in AoS. For chaos side I'll really just say I wish they were more focused on using traitor guard, cultists, and daemons. Alot of CSM are freaking horus heresy veterans. Dudes who fought in the most iconic war of the setting, and decided they wanted to throw hands for another 10,000 years. They would work best imo as elites, as opposed to the pure focus of the factions they are in.
No, you forgot the custodes you know the super space marines
(I play custodes I mean this as a joke don’t take offence)
I'm not sure how you can complain that the space marine civil war is full of space marines...
@@jackftww1 It was made to be so in the 2000s with HH. Once an age of myth, turned into a dull charade of buff burly angry men and their buff burly angry sons duking it out because one of them got stabbed by a funny dagger
Remember: you can get Mk III and Mk IV Marines for the same price as Tactical Marines, at least at the time of this writing. You have no reason to sink loads of money on Forgeworld ones.
In fact, build as much as you can from regular 40K models. While everything from GW is overpriced, the plastic stuff from the main site aren't as prohibitively expensive as the resin from Forgeworld. Save your money for the big centerpiece models, like the Primarchs. That is, if you really insist on going into Horus Heresy.
Plus indepedent stockists can sell at a 20% discount max
or 3d print what you need
Kitbashing is always an option as well. Big fan of it
Kit bashing helps a lot, something I did was mixing skitarii rangers and MK4 to make sniper rifle scouts
One point about the Horus Heresy pro or con depending on the view is that is it largely viewed by the players as a historical game. Not a competitive one (yet). Meaning certain players can be anal about X chapter being a slightly different color and don't get me started about armor marks headcanons.
As for the point about the HH having a firm endpoint. There are always the back doors of the Great Crusade era where your space marines can murder Xenos in droves.
breaking news: local adult has a mental breakdown because of a pointy helmet
@@SamueL-td7fb I mean. I'd be annoyed if my ww2 game had a modern army uniform back in 1939. Cause camo wasn't all that used at this point, and most were not using it at all. Sticking to the era's aestics is fairly important to games. And can take your enjoyment down a few levels. Prolly not worth getting mad over, but also might not be something you choose to put yourself through either. Might be better to just find another person that cares about it as much as you do.
Generally the most common opinion I see about armour is that you use what you want (even mixing different armour in a squad) as long as you don’t bring your primaries, and depending on the player mkvii might be fine. And for legions scheme as long as you paint them in a colour somewhat close it fine. But there is definitely a problem with gatekeepers in the community which is kind of sad.
Hearing the insulin pump interrupt his talking was one of the most relatable things I’ve ever seen on CZcams
"Without the War in Heaven, none of this Bullshit would have come about." is the perfect way of describing 40k 🤣
The dark eldar do show up in "butchers nails" in an attempt to kill angron before he falls to chaos.
The only few time to cheer for them...
And they failed...
I love your channel man! Please keep doing these Warhammer videos! Your humor is very good for it and always gets a chuckle out of me
I hate the fact that the lore is actually "Yeah it wasn't the chaos gods who threw the primarchs, it was just some woman"
Please games workshop, don't answer more questions
To be honest I find it better than the Chaos gods apparently having the power to just yoink people whenever, especially (ironically..) mother-F-ing Primarch babies from the Emperor himself so easily.
It's definitely both.
Women ☕
Wait what
Erda, what the fuck is this goobledigook, they coulda just left this vague.
No what the story needs is more mythical superbeings acting in convoluted ways.
You should make a video about the poorhammer community
thanks to that community i was reminded that i didn't had to sacrifice half of my body just to buy a bunch of small plastic models....
You mean the sigmarx community?
this channel got me interested in 40k. now ive got orks painted and im working on some chaos space marines.
Oh no no no
No, it's okay, they were born into the one-wound era and know nothing of the vapid promises of two wounds. They can still be happy with their chaos space marines
@@tylerr472 yeh idk i just think they look cool. I dont play the game, just paint
@@random_fem1041based.
I feel like the War in Heaven could use the Heresy treatment, with a novel series and a whole ass other setting to roll with, hopefully with less expensive models. But still, a Krork codex would be badass, the Eldar in their prime, the Necrons at their height with the C'tan still in charge, the fucking Old Ones. So much potential.
the “do or don’t” videos are the best content around in this channel
(the video defending lettuce is the absolute best)
keep up the good content
Horus had a fever dream during his healing by the chaos cult that took him back in time where he argued with magnus and destroyed the two other primarchs during a temporal distortion
9:39 false. If you love Titans, you will love the Horus Heresy Lore(seriously in the first 13 books alone there are over a dozen suuuuuper cool scenes involving Titans, and quite a bit of Lore fleshing out Titan Legios during the days of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. There's even really detailed scenes revolving around the Politics of Titan Legios&Knight Houses and people entering and leaving Titans.)
But yeah the majority of the Horus Heresy focuses on the SpaceMarines and their Primarchs.
The Legio Mortis vs Legio Tempestus in Mechanicum was great. It was hyped up for the entire book and did not dissapoint.
The simple fact that you've got the OG Rome TW soundtrack in the background fills me with joy.
The best guess I’ve seen about what happened to the Lost Primarchs is the one of them was possessed by the Rangdan and the other did something after discovering things the Primarchs were never meant to find out.
I'd love to see a "do or don't" of the chaos armies. The total Warhammer episode you did on khorn was awesome
I’ll get to them. I’m debating when I’ll do it though because honestly, chaos is my least favorite faction to cover but at the same time if I put it off A: it’s just gonna be Chaos over and over and that might get boring and B: I’ll hate myself for it. But I will cover them fear not.
Awesome video. I would say after reading a few of the Heresy Novels, I had the idea that Xenos aren't in the tabletop because In 30K the Crusade era Imperium is vastly stronger than the 40k one. After Ullanor all the Xenos were irrelevant to Mankind.
To the lack of Xenos comment. I feel like it’s understandable why the Xenos just aren’t there because it’s like the imperium’s big civil war. I see it like being disappointed that in the American Civil War the British and French aren’t talked about enough because yes they existed at the same time but their actions are insignificant compared to the main war. But love you stuff! that original video you made got me to make a Admech force and start playing Warhammer.
Xenos were playable in HH from the outset because at the time Heresy was first released it and 40K were using the same rules system, heck you could still play xenos in heresy so long as you used a 3rd to 7th edition codex for them.
I think you need to revisit your knowledge of the US War of Independence. Most sources agree that the fledgling US would have certainly lost and lost quite early during the war.
@@SpaceShipDee he said the american civil war
as in the one vs the confederacy
also doubtful the ships and guns were useful but I doubt the british would have wanted to send bigger invasion fleets if the french and spanish didn't join it
I’m glad to see you finally enter the fold as a son of Russ
Do a video on what if Freddy fazbear enters the warhammer 40k universe
He would just get destroyed by a few lasgun shots.
I recently got into 40k because of a friend and then found this channel. super helpful and funny, keep up the great work!
hey pankreas, going through a real rough patch in my life, your videos continuously cheer me up, thanks for that :)
14:55
Finally. An opinion that is 100% correct.
10:10, the reason it's on both pages is because there were smaller factions within the space marine chapters that were loyalist. Like the ones who followed Saul Tarvitz.
Such an underrated channel! Everytime you post a video I only crave more!
The best metaphor for the story of 40k is a really big mean looking truck stuck in a mud field in a swamp that’s just constantly gunning it and spinning it’s tires trying to get somewhere but every time it looks like it’s going somewhere a tire falls off or the engine stalls out and the trucks sinks right back into the muddy murky water. And then everyone jumps out of the truck, yells and argues about how to fix it and then gets in a huge fight and it just never gets better until someone pops the wheel back on or jury rigs the engine and they all hop back in while fighting.
Love the videos man...sadly missed the last 2 because stupid youtube didnt showed them in my abobox...your videos realy make my day
love your videos bro keep em coming, (at a reasonable pace)
I think that the first big expansion of the Horus Heresy lore and artwork was a lot of work done on the Horus Heresy collectible card game. It defined the modern Custodes visual design. The artwork was collected as the visions of heresy book. I'm pretty sure this was before the Horus Heresy novels came out.
Holy cow dude. You've been in fire lately. Pretty cool ngl
The galaxy is big and the timeline of the heresy is great. Loved you content dude
Loving the domina music! Great video!
Bruh your OST selection is immaculate
I'm surprised you didn't mention how absolutely wonderful the admech models for 30k are. IMO they are way, way better than the stuff released for the main line 40k army.
Awesome, now I can say I've been subbed to you before 30,000 subs.
I love your videos! All the way from Brazil! I'd like to suggest videos on other 40k mechanics, like necromunda or gorkamorka. Please do gorkamorka!
I’ve been reading the Horus heresy books and so far I’m at the first heretic and I absolutely love this time of warhammer.
Russy got you actin unwise.
You say “Did you think Leman just wanted to be an asshole to him over the phone?” But I could totally see that being the case
As a fellow diabetic who's pump beeped loud enough to be caught by my online ttrpg group once I feel for the interruption around 7:00
As someone that started the hobby with Chaos Daemons precisely because they can be played in any setting: I love it when a plan comes together.
Lady space marines? I know the lore says that can't happen but it would be freaking awesome.
This man makes great content and out like the waterworks
I already committed to making a black legion/sons of Horus army after starting some HH novels a few months ago and god damn do I love that it’s getting updates and more attention now
Watching this later in the year makes it seem far older than it actually is. We’re getting a quickly expanding plastic range to replace a lot of the resin minis, we have a new edition, and Magnus is no longer viable (same with the entire Thousand Sons legion.)
This channel is criminally underrated
congrats on 33k subs.
For Horus heresy, a lot of 40k models can be used, MK2 to MK6 are all fine, Mk7 you can use for IF siege characters. 40k rhinos and land raiders, as well as drop pods and speeders are all fine too
Wait you have 30,000 subs? I thought you had like 3,000 last time I looked. Damn grats bro.
Get that Leman Russy
You should do a video on Chaos Daemons, they were the army I started with and I would love to hear what you think.
In fact you could even use AoS models as Daemons of the Ruinstorm, as stuff like Nighthaunts or Sylvaneth can work great with the right nightmare paint job.
Or Mantic army boxes, as Forces of the Abyss or Nightstalker fit well and only need you to be some additional cheap bases in order to field a giant Daemon army.
Could you do a video about Eisenhorn? That would be awesome. Give the Inquisitors some love.
I so happy this channel is getting so big so fast. Think I found this at 7k and have been waiting eagerly for every new post and have loved every bit of it.
Glad to see you’re sticking around, Chief.
Milestone! congratulations.
The alpha legion contemptor is still what I think is the best model to come out of GW. Just beautiful bro
Such a great video, personally if they make a box set similar to kill team (ie comes with rules and enough minis for a 2 man game) I might pick it up
MALCADOR THE BRO, you need to put more respect and reverence on that name when you speak it
My favorite part of the HH is getting to play Cybernetica in it's full robotic glory.
I do agree with your concerns on timespan, but it *can* be stretched by late Crusade supplements and covering the Scouring.
One thing that's a strange upside with the HH models of the space marines. You can paint them as the space sharks and use them for 40k games, give that in the lore the space sharks are described in hearse era armor.
One small correction. Hobby shops DO sell horus heresy models. Just heavily depends on where you live.
Just putting it out there, recasting and 3D Printing is HUGE amongst the Heresy playerbase. Or at least in Australia.
Not only is it way cheaper, but somehow better quality than what ForgeWorld puts out, if what I've heard about their latest products is true.
I have been playing Warhammer since the early 1990's. I live in England but it has been 20 years since I bought a model. I just make them myself now it is not very hard I find it easier than assembling the crappy kits. Sometimes I will make a cast from an existing sculpt but usually I just use a wire armature and two part putty. Orcs and Chaos are the easiest because they can be lumpy and different sizes, Eldar is hard because they are thin.
Malcador is a super space wizard tho, he sat upon the golden throne shortly, he stopped Horus with a force choke.
40k lore with Rome Total War and Dominus music in the background?
My brother!
Doing a re-review on this would be nice now that there are tons more plastic models.
I hope with 2.0 they make all the resin kits into plastic. They seem to be doing this with Horus, so only time will tell if they’re gonna do all the primarchs in plastic.
Oh, you're playing my jam!
"For the machine is immortal. Even in death, I serve the Omnissiah."
Celebrating 33k
I think an addendum is gonna have to be made about the prices. As it stands the plastic Marines you can buy for the Horus Heresy (which should’ve been shown because it was a thing when this video was released) are an absolute steal!
$80 and I get twice the amount that comes in a standard box of Intercessors at $60? Sign me the fuck up!
The problem with Heresy prices comes in the second you try moving out of plastics and into Forgeworld.
*Pretty please do a "Do or Don't : Nighthaunt" , I would be super happy.*
Finally, Nathanial Garro is receiving love and recognition.
I finished reading Horus Rising end of last week, in case you have not read it, I warn you of potential spoilers.
They meet the race of Interex, I imagine they could be a potential xenos race to this. Perhaps also the race on one forty twenty(?) aka Murder. Iirc they mention both the eldar and the greenskins, so there is certainly potential to add xenos to this 30k game.
Magnus did nothing wrong!!
Also love the fact that you used Rome Total War music 😅
The life expectancy of Forgeworld is quite interesting right now. With the Death Korps getting a cheaper kit with upgrades on the main GW website, and the new HH marines being plastic: Forgeworld could either get assimilated or it will change focus once more.
Horus will need this video
Great, 14:58 is going to be stuck on my mind for a minute
In my head cannon for the burning of prospero the psychic backlash from destroying the golden throne destroys magnus' ability to reason and his whole "ooh woe is me let me die" thing is just the only line of reasoning he can come up with to parse his guilt. Other people be damned
I believe there was a brief moment following the triumph at ullanor where horus renamed his legion before he turned traitor
Yep there is one
Before he was poisoned
That Mortarion model is so cool
You should legit do a Orks video like you did with Ogres just saying out of all the races in warhammer 40k the Orks are the happiest
True you’d be happy but the odds are you’ll either die at birth, get killed by another Ork or Warboss die in attack or if you don’t die get castrated and shoved in a tin can. Their happy sure but 99.999% of the time it is for a really short time. Orks use machines that blow up if they sneeze wrong, and live by survival of the fittest to an extreme. I love em to bits but I’d rather be an Ogre as you aren’t guaranteed death
Cool to get more possessed marines I like mutation and corruption so they're always super cool to me
For your pricing point, I have one word to say: recasts
Those mechanicum models got my knees weak though.
On the Space Marine minis part, there are the plastic Mark III and IV kits that are widely used because it is a cheaper way to get into Heresy. You do not have to use any resin at all if you don't want to as a lot of the Mars pattern tanks, the GW Rhino chassis tanks like the predator or vindicator are usable same with Land Raiders. You can quite easily build a list without touching resin if you wanted. This goes doubly now as the new edition and leaks we've seen for months now indicates a big move to plastic and away from the arbitary FW price.
I would discourage proxies/inaccurate armour, practice games to see if people like it is chill, because authenticity is such a big part of why people play 30k and seeing Primaris run around does kill that aspect of enjoyment.
I know haha funny marine game but I would seriously look at the non marine factions they are just in depth rules wise for example, Mechanicum is a modellers dream army and Miltia and Cults is a you can use your beastmen as a mutant horde levels of customisation.
I do agree and want the game to have Ork, Eldar and even minor Xenos empire rules and I think it could be done pretty easily with a Great Crusade expansion I get why the Heresy is human focused though as at its core it is a human conflict.
And one last bit of advice is stay the fuck away from the GW store contemptor it is an awful model.
Genuinely asking. Why is it a bad model? I've been eyeing it up.
@@Spidehman incompatible with the resin one and has bad options
@@shuwan4games Gotcha. Yeah, that does sound below-average.
Man the Rome Total War soundtrack goes so hard
I was confused by the 19 sons, is this reference to Alpharius Omegan or is it Aloharius and Omegan?
Yeah alpharius and omegon are twins
Two primarchs are missing and as with twins there's 21
Remove 2 and you get 19
40k stories will never get conclusive endings. It's not profitable for GW to end their stories without a "bigger, better" story in the waiting.
Tod Howard bragged that ES fans would never get to know the Dwemers fate. To quote Todd, "For every question answered we have to leave 10 unanswered."
You milk a cow until it runs dry. Same with GW and 40k
You can buy the plastic Mk. III, Mk. IV and the (soon coming) Mk. VI kit, as well as plastic terminators, that will cost you wayyy less (still not cheap, of course, Warhammer is never cheap).
Though vehicles are still resins only, hope in the future at least some of them can get plastic kits...
Think the majority of 40k table top players arent gonna be anal about proxies. Especially with those offensive prices of Heresy models.
Hey I've heard that Music before damn I gotta play domina
Love it