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Some Fujifilm Autofocus REAL TALK
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2024
- Some real talk regarding Fujifilm's autofocus system in 2024. Get your pitchforks ready and enjoy.
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You offer straight common sense. I get why Fuji shooters who rely of eye tracking autofocus are very frustrated, and even angry, that Fuji's technology in this area doesn't perform nearly as well as the competition and that Fuji seems unable to address the issue despite its claims to the contrary. But I have to agree with you. Anyone who depends on state-of-the-art face/eye tracking autofocus , and especially those who have come to rely on it for professional work, needs to accept that a different tool is required if their Fuji camera cannot live up to their expectations or meet their needs. No excuse for Fuji lagging behind, and not giving them a pass (people have invested lot of money in Fuji), just the way it is.
Maybe. But, I agree with those saying that Fuji needs to do better. At this point, if they don't I think they will see people dropping the brand.
I shoot canon professionally and fujifilm for fun. I like fuji for the SOOC colours as well as some film simulation recipes (not all). I have very low expectations when it comes to fuji eye AF which is why i am quite happy with the current AF using single point and eye af turned off. I find their eye AF accuracy is still lagging behind canon. The worst thing is, i can't really see close clearly which is why i rely on the green box telling me that it's focus when reality it's not. Canon's eye AF is so reliable for the work i do. The issue with Fuji is they attempted to release 2 firmwares within a short period of time that has caused issues that most users claimed were not there prior. If it is true, fuji really needs to be very careful before they release the next version of their fw.
@@amateurphotographer1096completely agree. I love my almost pocketable little X-E4 if I’m going on vacation, but for my professional work, it’s my Sony A7IV ALL DAY LONG
@@amateurphotographer1096 I agree - those last 2 firmware updates just made things worse for them
It wasn't good but I think someone broke it. A friend who got an h2s tried an xt4 of mine and he said this one works😊
Thank you for your video. Your commentary makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate your viewpoint. I think one of the major ways Fujifilm is addressing their technical deficiencies is by creating a brand that is coveted because of how enjoyable they are to shoot, and how pleasing the straight out of camera images are.
People are buying their cameras in record numbers, and many of their cameras are require waitlists to be purchased because these camera are a breath of fresh air compared to professional gear.
I shoot Sony professionally, but I carry and travel with Fuji. Fuji has the vibes. When I carry my Sony people think I’m working and get a little awkward. When I carry my Fuji people ask if it’s a film camera and tell me about how they had a camera like it in the 1980’s.
When I pick up my Fuji gear after shooting a lot with my Sony my response is “This is so light and small, and deliberate”. When I pick up my Sony after shooting a lot with my Fuji my response is “This is a real tool, with a great EVF, and tracking AF I can trust.”
Haters will say that anyone who bought Fujifilm cameras are tiktokers, or instagrammers, or maybe hipsters
I'm a recovering influencer 😂
Great take. Lot's of us pros, as I mentioned in the vid, shoot Canon or Sony, but also Fuji because of what you've articulated here so well.
I photograph lowlight dance, and I have found Fuji autofocus to be quite good. It is not quite my Nikon Z9 AF, but it gets the job done.
Same here. Lots of low light concert photography. Not as good as my Canon but it does the job.
Fuji AF works fine for portraits and studio, as soon you add a little bit of movement the struggle starts. XF 56 F/1.2 WR really slow AF, on XF 50-140 F/2.8 you’re able to get a little bit more accurate. But is hard to know that Canon and Sony AF is basically unbeatable, yes, double of the price. 😂
Yep. The 56mm AF is a dog. Something I think about as well is whether it's reasonable for us to expect the same performance from a system that costs half the price? But then again, even the budget Canons like the R8 have pretty solid AF.
Agree with your view points. Changed to Fuji after my Canon and all my great lenses were always on the shelf. Fuji reignited my love of photography (first with the X100V and now the XT5). I know the AF short comings of Fuji and have learned to work around them. For example, often I use manual focus with back button focus. No camera system is perfect. Fuji just happens to work best for me. Perhaps there is another system that will work better for me but as of know I would not know what that system would be. Ty for the video!
Thank you!
I'm a huge fan of Fujifilm and I've been shooting Fujifilm for at least 8 years now, My first Fujifilm camera was a x30, I then I bought a X100F, then I got an X100V. I sold all of the previous mentioned over time and I ended up just keeping an XE2 and a XT5. I have like nine native lenses now and like 25 aftermarket or adapted lenses. The only way my Fujifilm XT5 takes perfect photos is if I turn off eye tracking and turn the autofocus photometry to centerpoint. Anything else causes it to give me false positives so yeah there's a major issue with the autofocus. It's not fluff, it's not a thing that's not happening, there's just a lot of people that are not reporting what's wrong. This is the same thing that happened with the ROG Ally and the fact that it eats SD cards. It's a major issue that no one was talking about into a couple of prolific CZcamsrs finally open their mouth about it.
I'm personally finding my X-H2 is far more reliable than it was. The main challenge I give it is my young kids running about all over the place with absolutely no predication as to where they're going next. I'm mainly using the 16-55 f2.8 or the 23mm f2, but I've also got the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 as a lighter travel lens which also seems to perform admirably. I've personally found it far more reliable when turning off eye detect and just using face detect. If I do use eye detect, I choose an eye rather than letting the camera decide as generally, I find, it can't.
I would say my main complaint has been false positives, which I find far more infuriating than not getting focus in the first place. If the camera says I'm in focus, I do expect it to be. This though has improved significantly for me on the latest firmware too.
Ultimately, I just expect a product (whatever it is), to do what the marketing department says it can do. If it can't, delete that bit from the sales blurb. If it's not offered, people won't be that bothered. If it's offered but doesn't work, yet you continually say it does, that's when people become frustrated and will start to look elsewhere.
I’ve been a Fuji user since the original x100 and x pro-1 - but I have to say that if you position your cameras as “premium” and price your APS-C cameras at the same or similar price point as some full frame offerings it’s not altogether surprising that purchasers expect reliable and up to date AF systems that are competitive with those offered by Canon, Nikon and Fuji. I mean I’m old enough to have shot sports and action with manual focus film SLRs but still, just because you don’t need eye AF and amazing subject tracking doesn’t mean it isn’t nice to have. Let’s also not
forget the marketing claims from
Fuji about the latest X-T and X-H cameras having superb AF. Fuji has some very loyal fans and I myself find myself coming back again and again to Fuji because of colours and tonality but we have to be honest here - at the prices Fuji expect us to pay, they really should have been able to make their AF competitive with the best of the competition by now
I completely agree - you make valid points here.
I think Fujifilm brought some of the autofocus hate by embellishing the autofocus system at the release of the X-H2S. I recall their being multiple presentations, by Fujifilm ambassadors, explaining how the "green box" follows the person or the eye. The implication was that the green box would result in properly focused photos, but that often didn't happen, and it's still an issue. I don't tend to bash or praise Fujilfilm, but I have noticed negative comments about Fujifilm, on various social media sites, is increasing in number and in brashness. I can't say the people complaining are wrong, and I hope Fujifilm feels enough heat to shift the momentum that is building against the company.
I think you make a fair point. They did go hard with saying how great the AF was in the XH2s
As a loyal Fuji user for years, I 100% agree with this. The autofocus really needs improving. Having said that I’ve fine tuned my system so tightly I almost never miss a shot. But I know what lens to use when, and when to use single point and zone and continuous. And I never use eye auto tracking…
Yep, I get that for sure. Gotta know your gear at the end of the day, but it's still frustrating to get it dialed in, esp for a newbie.
@@PeteCocoPhotoeven the a6300 with its kit lens 16-50 beats my fujis af in lowlight lmao
Please share the settings that you have found that improve the AF.
Great video.
It's too bad there are many "winjers" out there on CZcams.
Where I used to work, our Marketing Group often pulled out a statistic that focused on ignoring the large number of negative comments - "Happy customers tell 3 other people and unhappy customers manage to tell 9 other people".
Ergo ... There are lots of happy people out there who never tell anyone they are happy; there are lots of happy people.
Your video also reminds me of the many content providers who turn OFF their comments.
Keep up the great videos. I'm happy with them and will keep watching !!
Thank you!
The title of this video is spot on: REAL TALK! I'm glad you made this video because even though you didn't HAVE to, some people just suck, and they need to hear it. It actually makes me laugh when I read comments bashing Fuji. To them, I say, "Guess what, NO camera system is perfect. And if you want that perfection, it comes at a price! So chose your poison." lol
I've owned my X-T5 for a few months now and have had very few issues with AF. Granted I mostly shoot landscape/street, but the times I've used subject tracking using AF-C tracking (vehicles) it has never failed me. I have taken a few pictures of my nephews and nieces playing using eyeAF and 95% of them have been in correct focus. I take my time when composing shots. I feel a lot of people hurry and just hope for the best. I don't particularly enjoy spending hours on the computer in PP: we spend many hours in front of the screen already. So I like to take my time in pictures and I hardly use burst mode unless I have a very specific use case.
And that's the deal here. Everyone's use cases/knowledge of using the camera is different like he quite rightly mentions in his video. But this issue does not deter me from selling my camera that I ENJOY using because of its perfect aesthetics, Fuji's best-in-class colour reproduction, film sims etc etc. There's so much to love about Fujifilm, and this AF issue will not bother me like it has others, because, guess what, their use case is different to mine.
Photography is personal: if your work requires you have tack sharp images of fast moving objects 100% of the time when the sun is at an angle of 53.5 degrees to the horizon AND at the same time when all but 5 cows in the farm nearby are moo-ing, then sure, buy the best AF camera from brand X and leave Fuji. Noone's stopping you.
Of course I hope Fuji improve this once and for all, but until then, I can live with ~5-10% of the pictures that may not turn out to be properly in focus in a specific use case (picturing kids running) because there is so much more to photography than just the perfect eyeAF/subject tracking etc.
Thank you! Good take on this topic.
The AF is better - but it is still way behind the competition. I started with an XT2 and over the years ive gotten very familiar with fuji's autofocus woes - enough to know what i can or can't do with my gear.
my xh2 has been amazing this whole time 🤷♂ - my theory is that the 40mp sensor benefits from these updates since it is more prevalent across more models - it likely has more internal testing before going out to the public. I also think the major R&D occurs within the GFX lineup and then implemented along the x mount where the 40mp sensor likely is a scaled down version of the GFX as opposed to the stacked XH2s. the xh2s is VERY unique for fuji - its the FIRST time fuji has implemented a stacked sensor and the only model like that so i think something isn't quite compatible or needs to be coded/ programmed differently.
Thanks for the insights. You may be right regarding the XH2s, I don't have the technical background to comment on it tho
Really appreciate your honest thoughts and experiences. I started learning photography on Fujifilm and love the system. But now as I look to make photography a profession, I did opt to add a different system to my mix. Hoping Fuji can fix the autofocus issues but I still enjoy the cameras.
That watch is 🔥 by the way.
Thank you! That's my Casio G shock haha I love it.
I've read/heard many different theories about why this issue might exist. However, everyone really needs to think about what they need to do the job for them before buying. And, renting a camera and/or lens to try it out before buying might be worthwhile as well. Nothing out there is going to do everything perfectly. Just ask Kasey!!! LOL! I love to watch YT videos about cameras and read stuff on FB pages as much as anyone else. But, I try to use them to get advice and learn things rather than listen for complaints(except for Kasey of course. I love his channel. Makes me laugh out loud for real! In between you can learn stuff there too.) and faults. I also love to see the work of others. If you only listen to or read for negative stuff all the time you'll just be frustrated all the time. I just want to have fun shooting. And, sometimes figuring out ways to skirt or overcome problems on your own leads to real learning. I'm using an X-T3. Hell, it doesn't even have IBIS, but it still works when you work at learning to make it work! This was a nicely done video Pete. Have a great weekend.
You can't simply rent camera gear anywhere in the world. Depending on where you live, you can only get gear by buying it online.
And there are not consumer-friendly options for returning items overseas.
Selling gear is super hard as well unless you offer good prices.
Good take, thanks Charlie.
You are correct in the observation that Fuji repeat buyers, buy repeatedly, even though they are dissatisfied… this is insane! It seems that their “loyalty” competes with most peoples loyalty to their banks, and dentists… and it’s not like cameras are vital tools, let’s face it, they’re completely replaceable
Just when we thought we were out, they pull us back in! LOL
I'm noticing an increase in used last gen Fuji's for sale. When all of these loyal users are going back to the old firmware versions so they can use their cameras something is going on. I've cancelled my back-ordered x100VI, and going to Canon or Nikon. This sucks because I love the images my old Fuji's delivered, but their AF has never been great, and now it's getting worse.
I just got an XT50 for review, and the AF seems solid to me. Not sure what they are doing with AF but they better get it together soon.
Well said
I put a video up on Facebook of my experiences with my xh2s and it tracked a football player very well, almost immediately somebody was saying a Sony is better, well great, fuck off and use Sony then!
I use it and my xt5 for wedding photography and videography with no issues at all.
The xh2s is for sports, paid gigs working for a football club year round. No issues at all. In fact I use it over my canon r6 mkii nearly all the time.
Glad to hear your experience! And I agree - use Sony if you like it. It's that simple.
What lenses do you use at the football club?
@@JDR-em1fw are use the Fuji Film 100 to 400, Fuji Film 50 to 140 and also the Viltrox 75 1.2 when it’s very dark under floodlights.
I have tried adapting the Canon EF 70 to 200 L series lens 2.8, but during a game I have noticed a couple of times I’ve had to remove the battery to reset so stick with what I know that works now
Yep, a lot of sense here. But, on point 6, I stick with Fujifilm because there are so many other benefits to the systems than AF. Sure, I moan about the lack of progress on AF (they actually made my X-H2S AF significantly worse with firmware 6.00/6.01). Every system includes compromise and the reason many stick with Fujifilm whilst complaining about AF is that we make our brand choice based on multiple factors. I don't see a problem here - we should be able to stay committed to the brand whilst also criticising it. This is being a critical friend and hving these people is good for any business.
Very true
I love my Fuji XT4 very much. I shoot mostly manual and for my pleasure, so I don't have much to complain about. The autoocus is decent as well. But this camera will be my last transaction with Fujifilm.
I never use eye detect, I do use face detect and I have no problems, however I don't photograph people doing somersaults.
Your comments are reasonable. Fuji’s AF could be better, but plenty of folks can use it successfully for pro work. I think some folks are too critical and may be better served by switching to other brands.
Thanks! I agree.
They crippled their R&D budget and R&D ressources to optimize the financial results. They're selling enough anyway.
Everybody knows that there AF system is years behind.
It's cheaper to develop a noisy slow non-LM version of their 56/1.2 WR. They are selling it anyway.
Sony and Nikon aren't investing a lot in their APSC lineup, so Fujifilm isn't under a lot of pressure.
Complaining and not switching the brand? That's easy to understand: selling used XF gear is a perfect way to burn a lot of money (XF gear loses quite a lot of worth in quite a short time, for example the price of the 150-600mm dropped from 2200€ to 1600€, as this is a shelf warmer in their lineup) and investing in a new system is very expensive. I spent ~9000€ for one Nikon FF camera body and three lenses (Nikon is ripping off their customers with their insane lens pricing). No AF problems anymore. Far better IQ. Some great new XF lenses and some firmware updates would've been much, much cheaper...
Yep, I get all that. I think you make solid points here. I'm not trying to make excuses for them either, it's 2024, they need to get it together. AF should just work without people having issues.
I agree with most of what you said, but, I also have an A6700 and I could hand it to a toddler and they would get things in focus. Fuji has dropped the ball and doesn't seem to have the internal talent to solve the issue, if it's not the talent it's the chip. They would have fixed it by now otherwise. My first and probably only Fuji camera is my X-T5, which i regret buying. Shame as the colours are *chefs kiss meme*
You make a good point
I think Pete made some really good points about choice. If you don't like the camera system you can always choose another one and I know that means having to sell off your gear and so forth but there are plenty of people looking for FujiFilm cameras so they hold their value really well that's a benefit of Fuji. I personally have had great success with my Fuji cameras in wedding situations and Client work for corporate shoots. Auto focus was very important and I was able to get a 90% or just below heat rate where every photo focus properly. The Misses tended to be I think more. User error is often something that we don't consider.. I've also discovered a few things about the camera that I've changed that have improved the auto focus and I posted the same message on Pete's last video and I'll post it here as well.. 1 Change to One eye setting -this is really beneficial in most situations because what it does is the AI will then not try to jump to the other eye and it will actually tend to stay on one person for longer.. 2 marginally increase your shutter speed. I think one of the issues with many people getting blurry photos is not fast enough shutter speed. 3 as Pete said use the right lenses. 4 back button focus will definitely give you better results.. 5 in the auto focus settings change the setting sensitivity to number three. This is for people shots. I have experimented with all five of the settings. 6 make sure your sensor is clean. This is critical in just about all Photography. 7 if your camera is struggling a little bit just take it down away from the subject and bring it back up. This is something I do often if it's not focusing I just moved the camera six or 8 inches to the left right or up and down and then bring it back up, usually the focusing occurs very quickly. Once you bring the camera back on that's when you need to shoot.. I hope people find these tips useful. Lastly I do agree that the system needs improving but attacking people on CZcams or Facebook about the auto focus or going on big rants does not help anyone. I have a theory and it's just a theory and this is a total hunch I have a feeling it's got something to do with the filters that actually sit on top of the sensor so the sensor is actually underneath some filters that sit on top because if these are Sony senses which they generally are then why don't they work the same as a Sony camera? Well there's a number of different electronic processes that occur but I do think the filters that sit on top of the sensor, could be part of the problem that's just a hunch based on some logic. Happy shooting everyone.
Great points as always, Nev. ESPECIALLY regarding shutter speed. I'm almost positive that many people who think their camera isn't nailing focus are just using a shutter speed too slow to freeze the action.
Good news! I just took my camera to Venice Beach and did some street photography using the X-T5 in continuous auto focus mode at the skateboard park. The camera worked flawlessly with the tracking of the moving subject and acquiring focus quickly. I was impressed with the speed of the camera to re-acquire my subject even after the skateboarder left my field of view at the bottom of a pool and reappearing into the field of view back at the top of the pool lip. I need to examine the sharpness of focus within Capture One. I believe 1/1,800 of a second will be ample enough to handle the motion blur. Overall, I was highly impressed! I generally do more single shot auto focus with recomposing my scene with using focus lock.
Great to hear!!!
I did a similar experiment at an outdoor Farmer's Market next to Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. Most of my shots involved people who were either walking toward me or moving from side-to-side. I was using an XT-5 with Wide/Tracking AF in Continuous AF mode with subject detection on and the frame rate set to continuous low. The lens was a 56mm f/1.4 Sigma Contemporary set to f/2. The only time the AF got confused and had a hard time tracking was when there were multiple subjects in the focus area. When I reduced the focus area to Zone and locked onto a specific subject, the tracking lock-on and accuracy improved considerably. Other cameras may have done as well or better, but the Fuji at least met my expectations.
👍👍👍
I bought a XT5 with a 23mm F1.4 then I started reading on firmware, scared me off and decided to return the camera. Now I got a Nikon Zf with 28-75mm F2.8
Totally agreed with you
The real problem for most Fuji owners is that every time there’s a new model we’re told that the auto focus is fixed!
Then we have endless updates that still don’t fix the problems and sometimes makes them worse! Perhaps Fuji should take more time fixing the auto focus than releasing another camera body that has the same problems!
A perfect example is they get the autofocus right for stills and then they have problems with video, so they tweak the video and then the still part of the camera falls apart again.
Some of us have done and tried every setting possible and we know it’s not us. That’s the problem. But you’re right about one thing, people are losing patience with Fuji and eventually we will go elsewhere!
Yep.
I've had some frustration in the past, but I've just done 3 long days shooting for a multi-event festival with the latest X-T5 and X-H2 firmware. I think my image count is about 6000. I chimped a fair bit due to anxiety over focus. It was fine though.
I've quickly reviewed some images on the PC now and it's fine.
That's not to say that AF is perfect, but I was shooting in low light a lot (mostly with bounce flash). I was using the Fuji 50-140mm + sigma 16mm f1.4, sigma 18-50mm f2.8, viltrox 75mm f1.2. Of those, the viltrox was a little slow at time... but it's not really a run and gun lens... it was fine though.
I'm not disputing that canon, sony etc might have an AF lead, but Fuji's seem fine though.
Thanks for sharing your experience, this is great to hear.
It can actually focus is very low light. When I first got a Fuji body I was surprised by low light autofocus even though autofocus wasn't good in general. There is probably a low light autofocus spec for cameras that demonstrates this difference.
Pete, you’ve been really transparent every time that I needed an advice from you, specially regarding the X-T5. People is expecting R5, R6, R3, A1, A9III AF performance on Fuji, that won’t happen.
I'm expecting the AF performance to be the way it was when I bought the camera. It's worse now, even on v4.00. That's the whole point users are upset. I knew it wouldn't be Sony, Nikon, Canon level when I got it. I never cared for that.
@@JakeChambersOy Question, do you feel the AF was better when the camera was released, in this case X-T5? Because I feel like since day one the camera hasn’t performed well, my experience. I even got mine sent back to Fujifilm to a possible calibration, and they replaced the CCD. I’ve never got consistent results, unfortunately 🤷🏻♂️. As a Canon user, I got spoiled and learned that X-T5 AF wasn’t on par with R5/R3 in the hard way, but still love the results when the AF nails it 😂
I have compared them throughout multiple jobs with 3.10 / 4.00 and downgrading back to v2.10 multiple times, which is the last good performer for me. On events I mainly shoot afc with eye af.
Let's put it that way, results are more consistent on v2.10. It has never been 10/10 tack sharp on every shot, but I never expected that in the first place, which is a sad thing to say when you think about it.
I was shooting on the X-T2 and X-T3 before upgrading to the X-T5. So I know how to do workarounds on Fujis to get the results I need. Starting with the X-T5, it was at least reliable enough to change my shooting style from af-s single point only to af-c eye af in most situations.
@@JakeChambersOy Thank you for your explanation, I totally believe in your report, specially you work with the camera, the X-T5 for me it was something smaller but still very efficient to go out with the family. Unfortunately the AF doesn’t perform as I expected. I’ve watched many videos that helped me to work around the setting and get more consistent, as you’ve said, all of this is sad to say. I wonder if it’s a problem with the higher end cameras as H2S and even the Medium Formats.
Could be. I am in no way discounting that people are having real problems with their cameras, or that there is a problem with the firmware. Just wanting to give some perspective.
After watching many videos on this topic and my own experience on the X-T5 the auto focus on Fuji is far beyond acceptable. You might as well use manual lenses or change brand.
Yep, I get that. Fuji clearly needs to do much better.
Point No.6, allow me to give you some clarity. I too am a working tog, my gig is primarily events (specializing in orchestras and dramas), occasional weddings and some corporate headshots time. I use 2x XH2S's for this work as many of my shoots require me to work in absolute silence under strong artificial light, thus I need fast readout speeds from a stacked sensor to get the work done at the shutter speeds necessary whilst being banding free.
The alternative for me to get the same job done is MORE than double the price. In Australia, full frame equivalents are easily more than twice the price, and then collecting appropriate glass to build a kit equals financial ruin.
So sometimes the idea of changing brand is purely a financial restraint and I think that is where a lot of those people (myself included) can be whiners (whilst still supporting the brand). My option are honestly to either keep the cameras and work around its flaws, or quit the industry.
So for some, its not change brand, its this or quitting the profession...
I recognize I am niche, but the more you talk to others you realise a similar constraint is in place. I think if you find a pro running with a Canikony then they can indeed swap because they were fortunate to have the funds in the first place, Fuji was (at least a few years back) extremely good value and allowed for many users like myself to start building a business from the medium. For that I thank them, and tbh it really is only AF that is holding them back. I think just a little recognition that yourself is doing very well, not all of us can afford to run two systems,
PS, the Kaizen issue and 56/1.2MkII is possibly Fuji's greatest f**kup ever, I will never understand how they allowed either things to occur. One of my XH2S's is running 1.03, how they could have made this camera perform worse over time is 🤯. Certainly even in hardware departments they have their heads up their a$$'s as well because they chose to make XF56/1.2mkII with a draconian anxiety ridden DC motor... 🤦
I'm staying with Fuji for the entertainment tbh, where else can we get such drama! 🤣
You make some very good points
Had an opportunity to swap to a cheap xt3 kit ( with battery grip , 2 battery and a 23mm f1.4 for around 900$ ) but then tested my friends xs20 for a week ( he just bought an xh2 ) , and it lost against my gf's a5100.
Left my jaw on the floor and decided to stick with my a6400 and maybe a6700 in the future
Double thumbs up if I could, loved the video. Fuji is the last of the big camera brands to still be using the old contrast based AF technology and it shows. Meanwhile all the other big brands have moved up to phase detect AF. Sony and now Canon have taken it even farther with processors specifically designed to understand the movements of the subject being tracked and predict where the AF will go. AI AF if you will. I love shooting with Fuji but they are generations behind in the AF game. Like you Pete I was considering moving over to Fuji full time but the bad AF was one of the big reasons I couldn't do it.
My 7yr old Fuji X-T2 has phase detect AF, so not sure what your comment is referring to .
@@djstucI think they are referring to videos where it seems like Fuji is mostly using contrast AF. I tested this myself with an X-H2 AND X-H2S and in bright daylight there were slow situations where the camera did not want to focus at trees in the background which were very out of focus. It was just stuck there. This is a typical sign for contrast autofocus, as there was no contrast, the camera didn’t focus. If it were using phase detection, it should have gotten it quickly.
CZcamsr Edvard also made a video demonstrating that the X-T3 was using phase detect AF, but the claimed since the T4 it seems like contrast AF it’s used more. He showed the same situation with the H2S I believe and it refused to focus on the same spot.
@@jayzn1931 I don’t think they are referring to that at all. They clearly say Fuji is stuck using contrast detect AF whilst other brands have moved to phase detect, which isn’t true.
Some guesswork by a CZcamsr over what system the camera itself is deploying doesn’t change that.
Yes the XT5 does indeed use phase detect AF
Well, as mentioned above I tested it myself and while they do have phase-detect AF on paper, it seems like Fuji cameras tend to use contrast AF more often „than they should“, especially in video, which would also explain jumping focus instead of smooth transitions.
I sold my Nikon gear last year, because I wanted to get lighter and cheaper with the X Mount. Bought a XH2S with different Fuji and 3rd Party lenses. I had to sell this lovely system in April this year because it’s 3d Tracking was definitely not on par with other actual systems. I was really frustrated about it. I now have a R6ii and absolutely no issues with it.
This is why I'm still using my R5. Never any doubt about the focus.
I mostly use MF and back button focus, occasionally single point AF-S, and in most ways that matter for me, the X system camera ecosystem works for me, really well. X-T5, X-Pro2, and, yes, X-M1. Landscape, event photography, travel, portraiture, etc. The only time i use AF-C, is with subject "quadruped" for photographing my dogs. The current firmware seems much better for this particular niche use and my 70-300mm f/4 lens. I feel sorry for everyone who has a different set of use cases to mine and for whom Fuji X isn't working - but seriously, stop complaining and switch to one of the other makers. 😮
It’s unbelievable that a company of Fuji’s size and history of producing cameras cannot solve their poor AF functionality. Rival manufacturers sorted all these issues out many years ago.
This is a fair point.
lol just switched to Canon RF from Fuji X! I was tired of missing 50%+ of my shots. looking forward to using a modern camera that actually works
I don't blame you!
I never trust eye auto focus on my fugi and I am not planning to buy a any camera body until such time they will release a body which has the same capability as the cannon or sony.
I hate to say you might be waiting a long time.
Well put Pete! I do appreciate your thoughts and effort on this channel
Thank you, I appreciate it very much!
Hello Pete👋. From my personal perspective your analysis is spot on. Especially your last point regarding switching brands is a valid advise. All our lifetime is far too precious to fiddle around with some stuff that doesn’t work for a certain number of people. Sometimes I wish I could go back to the 80‘s, when there was no internet and especially no social media. Complaining would be zero😄.
Thank you! I'm with you. People will never know how amazing life was before the internet and cell phones LOL
Pete, thanks very much for your honest reviews. Go further this way!
Wow, thank you so much!!
Great video, Pete. The 18-55mm proved to be the best lens for shooting my studio videos in my recent test. That’s an old lens! I have no idea why they did not put a linear motor in the 56WR. I won’t buy it. I won’t be buying any more Fuji cameras until the auto focus situation stabilizes. I am happy with the two that I currently own the X-S20 and the X-T5. I don’t use face/eye as I shoot mostly street and nature. Excellent point about so many people purchasing Fuji yet complaining about it. A quick look at a few sites today shows most Fuji cameras and lenses backordered, etc. Begs the question.
Thank you! Some of the backordering is done purposely by restricting the supply. But, I agree. They need to get the AF not just solid, but excellent in order to stay competitive.
I see two extremes. There's those who say fuji's AF is complete trash, then there's those who scoff at the complaints and say Fuji's AF works perfectly. the truth is somewhere in the middle. for those who say its complete trash, i agree with this video, this system is not for you. It's time to move on. For those who scoff at those who complain and say fuji's AF works perfectly, I think it's a mixture of loyalists/blind fanboyism and not realizing that different people have different needs.
Exactly. I'm trying to just land in the middle and give a balanced perspective. Maybe I'm being to soft on them but that's up to the viewers to decide. And as you said, a LOT of this depends on your needs and how you shoot.
One way I think Fuji can improve is to simplify their user interface. It is needlessly complicated to get the camera to do what you want. If one wants to go from, say, shooting people who are standing still to people who are moving quickly, the entire AF-C custom setting needs to change (to say nothing of consideration of the proper lenses, correct depth of field, or using a zone vs. single point with subject tracking, etc.). I make liberal use of the C1-C7 settings and have fewer problems now, but especially coming from two systems that were much simpler (Nikon DSLR and Sony mirrorless), it took a LOT of getting used to. There's just too much to fiddle around with for someone who just wants to pick up the camera, put it on eye-AF, and just take pictures of their kid. Very few people have the patience to troubleshoot six different-but-related settings that all influence camera performance. (And, for those wondering, I use the X-T5 for birds, flying birds, events, horse racing, and just casual shooting, and get good results, but it isn't easy to have things dialed in proper.)
I was just saying this in another comment. This is a BIG part of their issue with AF. They certainly do need to improve the interface, I think you are 100% right.
@@PeteCocoPhoto Yup. All of the various modes should do the heavy lifting without custom settings needing to change or having to fine tune "speed tracking" and other settings.
I'm just a hobbyist and expected more from the xt5. Maybe that's my fault for not buying a sports specific camera. Or I didn't realize current "truly amazing" cameras are much more expensive. The features seemed to be good enough for my needs. My choice was also based on knowing I'd be more likely to frequently use a smaller/lighter camera. The dials and knobs are just right, love being able to change aperture on the lens. I didn't realize how bad the AF could be until starting to shoot action shots of my dogs recently. It just doesn't make sense. The small green square is tracking their face perfectly as they run yet none of the photos are in focus. My settings are all optimized for this type of shot, the subject is far enough away for the lens to do the job, the camera just can't do it. I'm still trying but the hit rate is so awful it makes me sad.
For sports, action, even for small kids running around fast, it would not be my first choice. I used the XT5 for some sports a while back (track and field, baseball, softball) and I was pleased with the results, but it's nowhere at the same level as a Canon or Sony for action.
@@PeteCocoPhoto I'm sure I'm asking a lot of it with the subject running directly towards the camera! I still have a lot of experimenting to do especially with just buying the 90mm, not giving up yet. ;)
Real talk is good talk, you came across well to me, good job. Auto focus Fuji algorithms & firmware? I think if they could they would, I think its a processor thing. Maybe XT-6. Hasselblad X1D body & sensor perfection, software "oh dear". X1Dii improvements & much better software, (auto focus, black out, FPS, forget it). I'm saying for Fuji, I think no amount of firmware improvements within maximum parameters will be right. Next generation probably. (I'm a XT1 XE1 & XT5 user, they do all and more than I need). (X1Dii living the dream).
Thanks, appreciate this! Good point - I'm sure there is only so much you can do to improve AF with a firmware update.
Fujifilm has one of the most fanatical fan bases in the camera world. The way they come after anyone who dares say anything critical of their system is ridiculous. it's cult-like
I’m not sure if you think I’m the fanatic or the reasonable one. 😆 either way you are right but pretty much all the major brands have their zealots
@@PeteCocoPhoto You're the reasonable one!
@@suba7320 ah okay! Glad to hear it 😆😆😆 I just never know anymore. That’s why I call them #fujiflakes lol
Thank you for sharing your experience and very interesting point of view , wich makes sense to me, great video Pete !!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Pete. I think your video is thoughtful and balanced. I would simply would not trust the XH2S and XH2 (I own both) on a paid shoot that required the autofocus to be accurate. Missing shots on your own time is very frustrating. Missing shots that you are being paid to produce is not only frustrating but a threat to your business and your financial security. While I know many photographers that shoot Fujifilm, those that rely solely on Fujifilm for paid work are few and far between. For stationary or very slow moving subjects the autofocus on the XH2S and XH2 is just ok. In comparison to other modern autofocus systems (Sony, Canon, Nikon and even OM system) the cameras still miss WAY too many shots even in those settings. By miss I don't mean completely blurry images, I mean not critically in focus with fine details that are soft and very slightly blurred. Fujifilm's utter silence on these issues is also very disappointing. In today's age you simply can't turn a blind eye to the issues your company is having and hope no one notices.
Hi Michael, I agree with you. Hopefully someone from Fujifilm is listening and a real fix is on the way. As I mentioned in the video, I'm still shooting with my Canon R5 and this is why.
@@PeteCocoPhoto Thanks for the reply Pete. I'm concerned that Fujifilm will continue to try and apply band-aids to the autofocus system in the XH2S and the XH2 with a true fix coming in the form of an XH2S II or XT-6. The XT cameras have been on a two year refresh cycle. The XH2s is two years old this month and the XH2 and XT-5 will be two years old in September and November. With the rumored update to the XF 16-55mm f/2.8 coming soon I could see Fujifilm including a refreshed camera body with the MKII version of the 16-55mm f/2.8. It will be interesting to see what Canon does tomorrow. Hopefully you've had a chance to use the R5II or at the very least get the opportunity to review it soon. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.
Complainers wherever you go and whatever you do... you do your best and some of us really appreciate the time and effort you put in to your presentations 😄
Thank you! There's some validity to these complaints, but yes, you are always gonna find people who just want to complain LOL
I'm not really sure how user error can be a justifiable reasoning point for AF issues, its called AF because it's supposed to "Automatically" focus for you, maybe I misread what you were trying to say though.
The AF system in any modern camera is pretty complex. There are tons of options so it's easy to use the wrong setting and then blame the camera. Having said that, on my Canon it's much more intuitive and easy to find the setting and it just works. My experience with Fuji is that there needs to be much more fine tuning to get the AF to do what you want, which is annoying.
I became a big fan of Fujifilm with an X-T3 and collected the X-M1, X-E1, X-T1, X-H1 and even a cheap X-A3 because it was beige (very classy)... This year I wanted to treat myself with the X-T5 but for AF this is the worst Fujifilm I have ever had. For me it has not been reliable so far, too many lost photos. I have made good portraits as well with my X-T5 under controlled conditions with the Viltrox 75 1.2 but outside as a walking around camera I am not at all happy with it. It often tells me it's in focus but the result is not. My Lumix GX-9 and G9 are bullet proof when it comes down to AF and people say Lumix AF was so bad, they should try the X-T5 🙂
They gotta fix it already. Like, not just make it acceptable, but make it excellent.
Fuji AF has always worked well for me.
My problem with Fuji is they won’t admit that their AF isn’t on par with Sony, Canon and Nikon. Instead, they said at the XH2s release that it WAS on par and you didn’t need FF now. Panasonic fought PDAF for years and finally had to change. Fuji just refuses to change. Can you use Fuji for pro work, yes. But their tracking AF is not on par with everyone else. Even Panasonics new PDAF cameras are better. I chose to move on from Fuji solely because of AF. I loved most everything else about them, but I had to go. I hope they get it together for the users of their system.
Fair points. I agree that they shouldn't have overblown the AF performance when releasing the H2 series.
Pete Coco dropping truth bombs and making sense. All of your comments are fair and balanced (as always). Some people live to be miserable and will never be happy no matter what brand of camera they are using - or in general - with their lives.
Thanks, Kat! And misery loves company LOL
I used several years Canon, then Sony and since one year Fuji. None of these brands were perfect at all. No one in AF. Even with the hyped Sony AF I needed a couple of times to focus manually. And the look of my Sony photos was always slightly artifical, which I personally do not like. But I understand that other people like this kind of look. Even with post-processing I could not get rid of this artifical touch. So for me the complete package of Fujifilm is at the moment what satifies my photography expectations most.
Yep. I agree.
I was watching a few videos shot on the fx3 and the a7s iii these are bigger youtubers than I am. I was looking in the comments and one thing I couldn't find. That was the fact no one cared about the AF . The content was the most important part. Is sony still a lot better than Fuji? Yes . I am also one of the people highly unhappy with the whole AF issue on my X-H2s because they promised it would be better than it is . They also promised it would get better and its gotten worse . I'm on the fence with getting rid of my X-H2s because I love the image quality and all the features. I also shoot Sony and now Lumix ( not the S9). I didn't update my X-S20 and at the moment the AF is better than the X-H2s and that's ridiculous. I'm a solo shooter so AF is very important for me but, I feel Fuji can definitely fix it on the 2s . If they can't I may sell it. I'm in the middle of this topic as you see. We need to hold Fuji accountable but, just saying Fuji can't fix it is nonsense because I know my X-H2s was really good when it first came out. What I won't do anymore is discount when someone doesn't have issues with their experiences . I wish I could say the same.
Fair points. I am not trying to discount people's experience with the firmware updates, just trying to give a measured response to a heated topic. I agree with your frustrations regarding the AF, and esp that you don't hear this with any other brands. I prefer to focus on more meaningful content as well, but just mentioning the AF in passing in my last vid caused such a stir I decided to make this one. I think we all can agree that Fuji needs to do much better, esp when they drop a firmware update.
@@PeteCocoPhoto yeah I agree with you and I won't discount you not having the same problem as the majority of us.
Hi man, love your content, and I hope you don't take this as if I'm just another hater! But I respectfully disagree with your last point.
Look, I get we should not hate just for the sake of it. But we as consumers should always ask the best our of the products we buy with our hard earned money.
I love Fujifilm, they instantly became my favorite cameras when I first got my X-T5 and even got an X-T2.
But it is insane that their top of the line X-Mount camera, the X-H2s has gotten worse performance out of firmware updates.
Also, Fujifilm themselves advertise their equipment as capable to do professional work. How then, can we justify paying premium prices for sub-par performance?
I don't like that our only choice is to jump to another brand. It is exhausting to sell an entire set of cameras and lenses, always loose money in the proces, and then pay more money for a new system.
I can't say to someone that paid top dollar to get an X-H2s: "well, its on you, should've bought an R6ii, don't you know Fujifilm is not for work"?
And look, I don't plan to sell my Fuji gear, I am considering biting the bullet and invest in other system for more serious endevours.
But man, I really wish that their beautiful Film Simulations straight out of camera were backed up by a competitive AF-C.
I would also love if there was an X-Mount camera that could take full advantage of the XF 150-600mm and bird tracking for bird photography.
You can work around the sometimes weird color science of Sony in post, you can improve some of the ergonomics of cameras like the Nikon Zf with accesories.
But blurry pictures and footage, we all know that has no salvation.
Take care! Looking forward to more of your content.
Thanks so much for this. I can't argue with any of your points. They need to do much better. Hopefully someone from Fuji is listening to all the frustrations and they are actively working on a solution that fixes peoples' issues.
Wow, disclaimer takes forever!
If you read some of the comments I get, you would understand why LOL
Maybe...
Some people will ask Fujifilm camera owners to get rid of their cameras ASAP
I'm sorry I don't understand your comment.
@@PeteCocoPhoto english isnt his native languange
“Not throwing any shade here”
I see what you did there.
Haha I didn't even realize lol
In regards to your last video, I was going to make a comment on it. But I kind of left it off. where I have an issue. Was you show on a focus on images.
Base agreed there are no net for few on the image, because the surface of the image is flat. but.
I understand where you're saying.
Everybody has a style of shooting, and the AF has been working out for you. Oh rihanna fujis auto focus is lacking behind a little bit. Close up the people who did the olive focus testing generator subject moving. Add, the people usually will compare the auto focus to Sony the focus. Which is the best in the industry at this current moment. Personally I don't think it's that bad, Camera companies has gone a long way from the older auto focus, Even sony as issues with the a7 ii as well as the 73. Improvement will be made over times
But with that said, Fuji films out of focus or never be as good as Sony, but it doesn't mean it's as bad as people said it is.
Yeah I get that, thanks for sharing here. I didn't base the last vid on the few clips of me playing around in the studio with the AF, but I can see that people misunderstood that and then got upset. That's on me. And unfortunately, I tend to agree with you - at this point I don't see them getting the AF as good as Canon or Sony. But, it should at least be SOLID.
autofocus system is only complicated by Fuji. Look at Sony, look at Canon. It just worked without having to have a Phd
YES! This is a huge part of the problem. The interface is unintuitive and complicated. With my Canon, it just does what it's supposed to without a lot of fiddling. I think they could solve a fair amount of peoples' problems by making the interface easier to use.
i got the xh2s for the colors ... and nothing more. mostly i use manual focus in video and photoshootings. i know, that the autofocus is not like sony or canaon, but mostly it works well enough for me. and no, i´m no fuji fanboy at all. i also use sony, when i like to switch off my brain :D :D
Haha this is a great take
Tons of love from me. You are a real photographer, not a hash smoker looking for subs.
Thanks dude 🙏
😂😂😂 👍🏼
So does the AF work or doesn't it? ha ha
This is what we are all still trying to figure out LOL
hi good video in a tough topic. I have had no issues with all the af updates. However some of the youtube creators i trust/like have had, so it must be a thing. Like you i have put it down to differences in use case. Some of the youtube vitriol However, seems to cone from people who dont use fuji, based on checking their profiles and other posts. That makes no sense. If you like Sony, for example or luminix, that's fine, people are all different. Total throws me when sony users join fuji fb groups just to post disinformation, who has got the time to do that and why? Anyway, fuji Af definitely needs some QUALITY updates, i think we would all.like that, if nothing else to keep the youtube moaning to sensible levels.
Thank you. There are a ton of people with nothing better to do than stir the pot online. It's sad but true, and then there are those who want to try to grow a youtube channel based on completely negative videos about a brand.
Thank you, Pete. Your voice of reason is much needed in today’s camera madness. Really…keep it up 👍
Thank you! Much appreciated.
@@PeteCocoPhoto I mean it. The Fuji stuff has me pretty discouraged tbh, but I’m able to look at it objectively.
Thanks, Pete, you make total sense! I have a feeling that the negative people take up too much of our attention. They are a small but loud minority. I rarely comment on videos. I like most of what I watch, because most of them are created by sincere people like you. I usually only give them a like. Perhaps it’s healthier for you and for all of us if we compare the number of negative comments to the number of likes a video receives. I believe that is the relevant perspective!
Thanks for your videos, they are always honest and informative and I learn from them!
Thank you! I appreciate this. And yes, the overwhelming response for my vids is positive, but those negative ones are the ones that stick in the gut, ya know? The struggle is real LOLOL
@@PeteCocoPhoto Yes. It's neurologic, it's how our brains work - it's not about some emotional deficiency in each of us. We have to make a conscious effort to keep our attention with the positive feedback.
Folks just want things handed to them on a silver platter. They got on the Fujifilm bandwagon.They don’t take the time to study the menu, do research and learn their camera. You’re right! It’s user error.
I have zero issues with all four of my Fujifilm bodies including the XT5 and XH2S.
I think some of it is user error. Also, Fuji's AF needs tweaking right out of the box, which Canon/Sony does not. It just gets the job done. So some of the critique is fair.
Exhaustive test with all X-H2S firmwares! FW 1 and 2 seem to be the best -> czcams.com/video/Ajr_I2ovdow/video.html
I'm not denying there's a problem w the firmware updates. I just wanted to give a balanced perspective on Fuji's AF
Pete is the arse ache on eye AF or AF in general?
I think people are having mainly eye AF woes
No hate. I think there's a lot of exaggeration with the AF issues. For some user and applications this might certainly be problem but for many users it seems not. I shot Canon for 20 years and recently changed all my gear to Fujifilm and the X-T5. I am very pleased with the results and don't find the AF limiting. It's not amazing but it's fine.
Thanks for this!
Yea Fuji doesn’t have great AF and it’s fine! I mean just gotta know what you’re getting into and that’s it haha that’s why I shoot with Sony for my AF needs. 😂
Lol I mean it works well for me but I'm still shooting canon too
@@PeteCocoPhoto yes I mean it works. That’s why I got the gfx50sii but more for like a more thought out style photoshoot with it than relying on faster photos.
Number 1: Nikon, Sony, and Canon have mulitiple patents on their autofocus systems. Fuji came late to the party and has had to essentially reinvent autofocus from scratch with new methods. It is not an issue of the others can do it and Fuji can't. Number 2: They have done a good job, but not a perfect one. In these days of "I have the best", any perceived flaw destroys all value for the owners and makes them unhappy, but they get to blame the equipment rather than their use of it. I think it is childish and a sign of our times.
Panasonic launched their first ever PDAF camera 18 months ago and they've already surpassed Fuji and are rubbing shoulders with Nikon and Canon, only behind Sony.
I get this - to a point. But they've been doing this for more than a decade now... it shouldn't be lagging behind so much. Also, I do in fact believe people when they say the AF got worse with the updates. I just didn't experience that myself.
Time waits for no one
This!
🙌 🙌 🙌
nah it sucks dude....
Haha did you change systems? Or just begrudgingly shooting with it lol
@@PeteCocoPhoto No i don't shoot begrudgingly. Disappointed in the AF system, yes. Critical about their af? Yes!
I'm still happy going out and shooting with Fujifilm cameras but I could be happier...🤷🏻♂
But I'm also not going to sugarcoat things and say "BUT IT WORKS FOR ME".
@@Iamtongue yeah I get that. But that's not what I'm saying. I am not trying to sugar coat anything just giving my honest feedback.
Your comment doesn't add much to the conversation.
Learn the camera !