Kevin, I always like watching your stuff! Will is very under rated in his reporting and I feel he is cautiously optimistic and not often negative. I like that about his podcast
Desmond Ridder biggest problem was information processing time , he was reading the plays to slow ! That's why I like Raheem Morris he recognizes all good quarterbacks have one thing in common quick processing !
I don't think anyone was looking for a "positive" or "pro-Penix" take from those like myself, because thoughts on Penix on the field are subjective. The issue was being against the process and that all the talking points that were mentioned after the pick and even to this day by the media, including people like Eisen and Jeremiah to this day, had clear counter arguments that were either willfully ignored or reframed to maintain outrage. Whether it was Penix's age, the "missing out" on the rookie QB contract, why they would sign Cousins and draft Penix (ignoring the actual timeline of the NFL offseason), etc, etc. All had obvious counters that people ignored because they wanted to live in the world of knowing better. To me, you couldn't make a solid case against the pick without answering two key questions: 1.) What was the Falcons projected ceiling finish to the season and what alternative pick at #8 was going to change that ceiling and what do you project that ceiling to be? 2.) We all understood Cousins contract is a 2 year deal essentially even though many deceptively framed it as 4 years and $180 mill. That being the case, what was the solution you had in mind for QB beyond those 2 years? Hardly anyone answered either of these questions, which is why much of it came off as searching for reasons to attack that the team for going "against the grain" of expectations. Even the one that probably bugs me the most, the concept of the team not wanting to "win now". I found it funny and appreciated that Kevin as the video progressed understood how silly a concept that is. Yes, every team is looking to maximize winning with whatever resources they have while preserving the future, it's practically what the GM and front office's job is. More recent worst case scenarios of this include the Saints, who you could argue their plan for the future was to stay middle of the road waiting for a miracle. Or the Falcons post Dimitroff to a degree, but he was put in a must win situation which made it worse. I don't agree that the cap is a reflection of the team not being in "win now" mode based on the insinuated definition. Every team is building as a blend of multiple strategies, but I've said before, the Ravens model I believe has a big influence on Fontenot, and he's said things to lead to believe that from day 1. Part of maintaining a competitive team is having a flexible cap year in and out. I don't think they want to be a team that relies on FA to build, but rather the draft. But that'll take collection of more draft picks moving forward, and FA signings that are smart in contract structure and that includes maintaining clear exit points on those contracts. That's why the restructures haven't happened. That's why you shouldn't be surprised if Terrell isn't resigned. Or if Onyemata is not back next season. Or if Dalman doesn't get a contract (unless it comes cheap). Even though it came when the team was struggling with the cap, the Patterson signing was reflective of what they want to do. Cost effective, bang for buck, signings complimented by young cost effective talent through the draft, UDFAs, etc. That's the one area I think does need to be boosted. They need to start making trades or wisely collect comp picks for the future for this to be sustainable. They are going to value depth, development, and cost effective free agents moving forward in my view.
IMO one of the top reasons for the Penix at #8 was that, with an improved team generally, the Falcons doubt they will be drafting in the top 10 for several years. If they wait, a franchise QB would cost a 'Julio Jones deal' to move up from a lower-half draft position to get a top QB Atlanta likes as much as they like Penix.
And every year there are teams with QB fetishes maybe one year you are in reasonable position to draft a Latu/Turner type pass rusher later in a draft.
That plus the fact that the QB classes the next few years looks kind of bare. In fact I really don't see a QB with Penix's talent in next year's draft. With Sanders, Beck, and Ewers the top 3.
@@huntjl88 No one saw Jayden Daniels as a 1st rd qb this time last year. Don't forget, Penix was qb 4 in this draft and many see even that as a massive reach. This isn't the falcons getting qb1 @ 8, no matter how much falcons fans act like it is.
Braylen Trice isn’t limited in pass rush, he totaled 16 sacks in the past two seasons at Washington so that statement made no sense but you’re right in saying he’s in “win now” mode
People are going to stop complaining when these players have developed. Falcons for the most part has been developing pass rush. If Penix becomes that guy and if the D-line additions exceed expectations, people will not care what a draft grade is. If Dallas Turner/Latu becomes that 10 sack guy maybe a DROTY. Falcons fans will point back and say “we haven’t had this in over a decade, that could have been us.”
Yes, but the falcons have been a bad franchise for a while now, it's no longer a year or 2. Fans have a right to be skeptical of an, at best, controversial move. They have not earned the right to be trusted. This isn't a winning franchise that's been rolling. If anything we should be skeptical of the move for all the reasons I just mentioned. The Falcons essentially are telling us they are smarter than everyone else. History, recent history especially, says that's something to bet against the falcons on...
@@RogerThat902 they have to earn that credibility and trust. This could either solidify Terry and Raheem for the next 5+ years or they will be out of a job, Raheem knows this and he knows that this is his last shot if things do not work out.
If Falcons did not draft Penix and J.J. McCarthy took Vikings deep in the playoffs and Falcons did not make it or was knocked out in first round then they would look like fools for going all in on Kirk when a rookie in J.J McCarthy is doing much better than Kirk with Vikings.
@@TheMattTrakker it changes because that point Kirk has proven he can't get past the first round which will be his upside ceiling at his age. When that happens you know you have more potential upside with Penix at less cost. If you don't have penix and that happens you are screwed because there are no great QBs in next year class and will probably not be drafting in top 10 to get one. Hence you would see that a rookie in J.J Mcarthy was better than Kirk at this age and falcons could have drafted him or a rookie and did better.
If they came to the conclusion that the team isn’t ready to win right now, why pretend like they are? I’m not mad at the pick (the player). I’m pissed that they lied and pretended like they were going to compete. I’m more likely to tune in more consistently, even buy tickets, if I at least believe in your vision. Not to mention, if you really believed that you needed a QB, why not move up to take a better QB?
They will compete. They are just not going all in. To compete this team only needed better QB play, better play calling, and health. I'm sure we will have better QB play and better play calling. The defense should have it's big names at DT back. Plus some very intriguing rookies there. I also think this scheme fits who we had already better than Nielsen's scheme last year.
@@huntjl88 I'll never understand why Kevin seems infatuated w/ "going all in" Who is to say they ever go all in, "Rams style"? Like seems to be how he's using the term.
It was a bad move IRREGARDLESS of outcome. You wasted 1 valuable resource. Unless you win a SB with Kirk in the next 2 years or with Penix at some point you will never know how much wasting a valuable resource hurt the team. The GB example is different (where QB was picked, nature of QB situation developmental QB vs SB winner, etc) but the GB example did NOT work. People say it worked it did not GB with a much better team that ATL went 13-3 13-3 and had two close playoff losses with if they drafted Tee Higgins or Pittman Jr and added him to that offense? Or if they drafted a Patrick Queen and he sacks on intercepts in those games and closes out the win for SB trip and then they do something in SB and win that. Jordan Love contributed nothing to going winning any playoff games NOTHING. You cannot win now and win later. It won't work you either wasted 100 Million/QB on rookie contract OR you wasted #8 pick. The only way this works is a billion to 1 shot Kirk wins SB with no help from #8 draft pick in years 1 or 2 and then retires or suffers career ending injury in SB and then Penix comes in and doesn't bust (1st round QBs bust at an 80 percent rate btw). Unless that happens Terry and Raheem should lose their jobs. They have both said ridiculous things like Terry said: Penix can sit for 3 or 4 or 5 years WHAT? No he cannot and no he will not. Raheem said if Kirk wins 2 SBs he can still be the QB in the 2 years WTF what if Kirk is playing at a Pro Bowl level in 2 years 4000 yards 30ish TDs 10ish INTs 70ish percent completion 100ish QBR you just dump him? Then start an 80 percent bust chance.
Most Number 8 picks rarely become HOF players, even if one did, rarely will that alone take a team like the current Falcons to the SB or put this current group over the top. Everything is speculation. I’ll wait and see what happens before I declare anything foolish or brilliant … Kirk is 36 and coming back from a significant injury. I think they made the right choice grabbing a top qb. Wish we could have picked up another draft pick
@@Jjonescp3 doesn't matter any player taken top 10 is going to at worst be a solid stater will that win a team a sb no but it helps more than a guy sitting on the bench very few top 10 players bust it's your best chance to get a player who can help right away and for 5 years it's a huge VALUE deal especially if you will be picking higher later you'll never get a shot at a player like that ATL had the chance to not just get a top 10 player but the 1ST DEFENSIVE PLAYER be it DE DT or CB or even #3 WR ---- again THIS WAS A MISTAKE SECOND THEY DID IT outcome doesn't matter if Kirk gets hurts you wasted 100M on Kirk if Kirk falls off a cliff you wasted 100M on Kirk in other words do not sign Kirk if you're worried about him getting hurt no team not KC not SF no NFL team has a back up as 100M QB or as a #8 pick QB it's insane waste of resources you don't pay 100M for a bridge or back up QB and you don't use #8 pick and 23 million for a back up QB - like I said if you have doubts about Kirk's age or injury DO NOT SIGN HIM use the 100 million to build a team around Penix like the teams did with Allen Mahomes etc etc sign a bridge QB for a few million and if Penix is ready he doesn't have to sit for 1 year - automatically sitting is not good if the QB is ready some are ready right away --- you think HOU was going to sit CJ if you think Penix is a CJ sign a bridge QB and use his rookie QB contract to build around home OR if you are not sure about Penix being it (80 percent of 1st round QBs bust) and you can never be sure and you sign Kirk then what you do is draft a NON QB player at #8 that player will give you more value than dude sitting on bench RODGERS/LOVE did not work no matter what people say GB lost 2 playoff games as 13-3 team by 1 score imagine Tee Higgins Patrick Queen Pittman Jr on those teams vs someone who didn't play like Love --- GB hurt the win now to try and win later the other issue is they wasted Love's rookie contract so when Love takes over he would have had a much better team around him
@@thetrevorsimpson-u8o I understand your position but the draft every year is filled with top 10 bust … only time will tell if these decisions will pan out. Good luck
@@Jjonescp3 THE HIGHER YOU PICK THE LESS LIKELY A PLAYER BUSTS. CERTAIN POSITIONS BUST MORE THAN OTHERS FOR EXAMPLE QBs. IT IS ABOUT ODDS #8 PLAYER IS LESS LIKELY TO BUST THAN PLAYER IN 20s AND HE'S LESS LIKELY TO BUST THEN ROUND 2 AND HE'S LESS LIKELY TO BUST THAN ROUND 3 -- IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT YOUR #8 PICK BUSTING DO NOT TAKE A QB!!!!!
@@thetrevorsimpson-u8o I know you believe you are smarter than everyone, sometimes the odds swing the other way. However I think you are waisting your talent arguing with dummies on YT when you could be an NFL GM, building your dynasty.
Let's be honest there were better picks than London better picks than Kyle better picks than Bijan better picks then Penix Terry should be fired. That first draft class is falling apart. He needs a new job somewhere else.
Kevin, I always like watching your stuff! Will is very under rated in his reporting and I feel he is cautiously optimistic and not often negative. I like that about his podcast
Really good conversation fellas. Right in to it. Thank you. Rise up
Desmond Ridder biggest problem was information processing time , he was reading the plays to slow ! That's why I like Raheem Morris he recognizes all good quarterbacks have one thing in common quick processing !
I don't think anyone was looking for a "positive" or "pro-Penix" take from those like myself, because thoughts on Penix on the field are subjective. The issue was being against the process and that all the talking points that were mentioned after the pick and even to this day by the media, including people like Eisen and Jeremiah to this day, had clear counter arguments that were either willfully ignored or reframed to maintain outrage. Whether it was Penix's age, the "missing out" on the rookie QB contract, why they would sign Cousins and draft Penix (ignoring the actual timeline of the NFL offseason), etc, etc. All had obvious counters that people ignored because they wanted to live in the world of knowing better. To me, you couldn't make a solid case against the pick without answering two key questions:
1.) What was the Falcons projected ceiling finish to the season and what alternative pick at #8 was going to change that ceiling and what do you project that ceiling to be?
2.) We all understood Cousins contract is a 2 year deal essentially even though many deceptively framed it as 4 years and $180 mill. That being the case, what was the solution you had in mind for QB beyond those 2 years?
Hardly anyone answered either of these questions, which is why much of it came off as searching for reasons to attack that the team for going "against the grain" of expectations. Even the one that probably bugs me the most, the concept of the team not wanting to "win now". I found it funny and appreciated that Kevin as the video progressed understood how silly a concept that is. Yes, every team is looking to maximize winning with whatever resources they have while preserving the future, it's practically what the GM and front office's job is. More recent worst case scenarios of this include the Saints, who you could argue their plan for the future was to stay middle of the road waiting for a miracle. Or the Falcons post Dimitroff to a degree, but he was put in a must win situation which made it worse.
I don't agree that the cap is a reflection of the team not being in "win now" mode based on the insinuated definition. Every team is building as a blend of multiple strategies, but I've said before, the Ravens model I believe has a big influence on Fontenot, and he's said things to lead to believe that from day 1. Part of maintaining a competitive team is having a flexible cap year in and out. I don't think they want to be a team that relies on FA to build, but rather the draft. But that'll take collection of more draft picks moving forward, and FA signings that are smart in contract structure and that includes maintaining clear exit points on those contracts. That's why the restructures haven't happened. That's why you shouldn't be surprised if Terrell isn't resigned. Or if Onyemata is not back next season. Or if Dalman doesn't get a contract (unless it comes cheap). Even though it came when the team was struggling with the cap, the Patterson signing was reflective of what they want to do. Cost effective, bang for buck, signings complimented by young cost effective talent through the draft, UDFAs, etc.
That's the one area I think does need to be boosted. They need to start making trades or wisely collect comp picks for the future for this to be sustainable. They are going to value depth, development, and cost effective free agents moving forward in my view.
IMO one of the top reasons for the Penix at #8 was that, with an improved team generally, the Falcons doubt they will be drafting in the top 10 for several years. If they wait, a franchise QB would cost a 'Julio Jones deal' to move up from a lower-half draft position to get a top QB Atlanta likes as much as they like Penix.
And every year there are teams with QB fetishes maybe one year you are in reasonable position to draft a Latu/Turner type pass rusher later in a draft.
That plus the fact that the QB classes the next few years looks kind of bare. In fact I really don't see a QB with Penix's talent in next year's draft. With Sanders, Beck, and Ewers the top 3.
@@huntjl88 No one saw Jayden Daniels as a 1st rd qb this time last year. Don't forget, Penix was qb 4 in this draft and many see even that as a massive reach. This isn't the falcons getting qb1 @ 8, no matter how much falcons fans act like it is.
@@TheMattTrakkerKeep crying 🤡
@@TheMattTrakker no one knows how these players will pan out. We do know that Penix has earned cautious optimism. Time will tell the truth.
Man I miss Desmond ridder 😂
Braylen Trice isn’t limited in pass rush, he totaled 16 sacks in the past two seasons at Washington so that statement made no sense but you’re right in saying he’s in “win now” mode
Caleb Williams took more sacks last year than he took his whole career
People are going to stop complaining when these players have developed. Falcons for the most part has been developing pass rush. If Penix becomes that guy and if the D-line additions exceed expectations, people will not care what a draft grade is. If Dallas Turner/Latu becomes that 10 sack guy maybe a DROTY. Falcons fans will point back and say “we haven’t had this in over a decade, that could have been us.”
Yes, but the falcons have been a bad franchise for a while now, it's no longer a year or 2. Fans have a right to be skeptical of an, at best, controversial move. They have not earned the right to be trusted. This isn't a winning franchise that's been rolling. If anything we should be skeptical of the move for all the reasons I just mentioned. The Falcons essentially are telling us they are smarter than everyone else. History, recent history especially, says that's something to bet against the falcons on...
@@RogerThat902 they have to earn that credibility and trust. This could either solidify Terry and Raheem for the next 5+ years or they will be out of a job, Raheem knows this and he knows that this is his last shot if things do not work out.
I am smarter than Terry Fontenot
This is what we call, cope.
If they felt good enough about the roster, they've continued to show their inability to evaluate talent.
If Falcons did not draft Penix and J.J. McCarthy took Vikings deep in the playoffs and Falcons did not make it or was knocked out in first round then they would look like fools for going all in on Kirk when a rookie in J.J McCarthy is doing much better than Kirk with Vikings.
How does drafting Penix change that?
@@TheMattTrakker it changes because that point Kirk has proven he can't get past the first round which will be his upside ceiling at his age. When that happens you know you have more potential upside with Penix at less cost. If you don't have penix and that happens you are screwed because there are no great QBs in next year class and will probably not be drafting in top 10 to get one. Hence you would see that a rookie in J.J Mcarthy was better than Kirk at this age and falcons could have drafted him or a rookie and did better.
If they came to the conclusion that the team isn’t ready to win right now, why pretend like they are? I’m not mad at the pick (the player). I’m pissed that they lied and pretended like they were going to compete. I’m more likely to tune in more consistently, even buy tickets, if I at least believe in your vision. Not to mention, if you really believed that you needed a QB, why not move up to take a better QB?
They will compete. They are just not going all in. To compete this team only needed better QB play, better play calling, and health. I'm sure we will have better QB play and better play calling. The defense should have it's big names at DT back. Plus some very intriguing rookies there. I also think this scheme fits who we had already better than Nielsen's scheme last year.
you dont think this team will compete?? do u even follow the falcons?
So if they drafted the top defensive talent that would convey, they wanted to win now? What moves would you have made?
@@Jjonescp3 a player that impacts the team right now. Not in two years
@@huntjl88 I'll never understand why Kevin seems infatuated w/ "going all in" Who is to say they ever go all in, "Rams style"? Like seems to be how he's using the term.
I never understood the hate of this pick
It was a bad move IRREGARDLESS of outcome. You wasted 1 valuable resource. Unless you win a SB with Kirk in the next 2 years or with Penix at some point you will never know how much wasting a valuable resource hurt the team. The GB example is different (where QB was picked, nature of QB situation developmental QB vs SB winner, etc) but the GB example did NOT work. People say it worked it did not GB with a much better team that ATL went 13-3 13-3 and had two close playoff losses with if they drafted Tee Higgins or Pittman Jr and added him to that offense? Or if they drafted a Patrick Queen and he sacks on intercepts in those games and closes out the win for SB trip and then they do something in SB and win that. Jordan Love contributed nothing to going winning any playoff games NOTHING. You cannot win now and win later. It won't work you either wasted 100 Million/QB on rookie contract OR you wasted #8 pick.
The only way this works is a billion to 1 shot Kirk wins SB with no help from #8 draft pick in years 1 or 2 and then retires or suffers career ending injury in SB and then Penix comes in and doesn't bust (1st round QBs bust at an 80 percent rate btw). Unless that happens Terry and Raheem should lose their jobs. They have both said ridiculous things like Terry said: Penix can sit for 3 or 4 or 5 years WHAT? No he cannot and no he will not. Raheem said if Kirk wins 2 SBs he can still be the QB in the 2 years WTF what if Kirk is playing at a Pro Bowl level in 2 years 4000 yards 30ish TDs 10ish INTs 70ish percent completion 100ish QBR you just dump him? Then start an 80 percent bust chance.
Most Number 8 picks rarely become HOF players, even if one did, rarely will that alone take a team like the current Falcons to the SB or put this current group over the top. Everything is speculation. I’ll wait and see what happens before I declare anything foolish or brilliant … Kirk is 36 and coming back from a significant injury. I think they made the right choice grabbing a top qb. Wish we could have picked up another draft pick
@@Jjonescp3 doesn't matter any player taken top 10 is going to at worst be a solid stater will that win a team a sb no but it helps more than a guy sitting on the bench very few top 10 players bust it's your best chance to get a player who can help right away and for 5 years it's a huge VALUE deal especially if you will be picking higher later you'll never get a shot at a player like that ATL had the chance to not just get a top 10 player but the 1ST DEFENSIVE PLAYER be it DE DT or CB or even #3 WR ---- again THIS WAS A MISTAKE SECOND THEY DID IT outcome doesn't matter if Kirk gets hurts you wasted 100M on Kirk if Kirk falls off a cliff you wasted 100M on Kirk in other words do not sign Kirk if you're worried about him getting hurt no team not KC not SF no NFL team has a back up as 100M QB or as a #8 pick QB it's insane waste of resources you don't pay 100M for a bridge or back up QB and you don't use #8 pick and 23 million for a back up QB - like I said if you have doubts about Kirk's age or injury DO NOT SIGN HIM use the 100 million to build a team around Penix like the teams did with Allen Mahomes etc etc sign a bridge QB for a few million and if Penix is ready he doesn't have to sit for 1 year - automatically sitting is not good if the QB is ready some are ready right away --- you think HOU was going to sit CJ if you think Penix is a CJ sign a bridge QB and use his rookie QB contract to build around home OR if you are not sure about Penix being it (80 percent of 1st round QBs bust) and you can never be sure and you sign Kirk then what you do is draft a NON QB player at #8 that player will give you more value than dude sitting on bench RODGERS/LOVE did not work no matter what people say GB lost 2 playoff games as 13-3 team by 1 score imagine Tee Higgins Patrick Queen Pittman Jr on those teams vs someone who didn't play like Love --- GB hurt the win now to try and win later the other issue is they wasted Love's rookie contract so when Love takes over he would have had a much better team around him
@@thetrevorsimpson-u8o I understand your position but the draft every year is filled with top 10 bust … only time will tell if these decisions will pan out. Good luck
@@Jjonescp3 THE HIGHER YOU PICK THE LESS LIKELY A PLAYER BUSTS. CERTAIN POSITIONS BUST MORE THAN OTHERS FOR EXAMPLE QBs. IT IS ABOUT ODDS #8 PLAYER IS LESS LIKELY TO BUST THAN PLAYER IN 20s AND HE'S LESS LIKELY TO BUST THEN ROUND 2 AND HE'S LESS LIKELY TO BUST THAN ROUND 3 -- IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT YOUR #8 PICK BUSTING DO NOT TAKE A QB!!!!!
@@thetrevorsimpson-u8o I know you believe you are smarter than everyone, sometimes the odds swing the other way. However I think you are waisting your talent arguing with dummies on YT when you could be an NFL GM, building your dynasty.
Let's be honest there were better picks than London better picks than Kyle better picks than Bijan better picks then Penix Terry should be fired. That first draft class is falling apart. He needs a new job somewhere else.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people think this front office deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Found the 2 clowns/cry babies hanging out together. You 2 cry on every falcons related video. Its truly pathetic 🤡👶🤡
Keep reporting my comments. Shows me that im right about both of you 2 Clowns. Cry babies pretending to be grown men
@@TheMattTrakker Exactly. What has Terry/regime done to earn respect for their picks?