Scooter Tramp Scotty. Front Forks Tech Tip.
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2024
- Have you noticed your bike’s front forks being pretty, if not really, stiff at speeds over 30? If so, you’re going to learn some stuff on this one.
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I put Legend on the rear, and it made all the difference. I liked them so much that I put Legend on the front.
I didn't notice that much of a difference on the front.
always learn something from
you, being a woman I found after my husband passed, mechanics did not want to explain.. Peace out.....
Good morning Bev 😊
Great work man. I'm 8 weeks off hip replacement. Living my life through your videos. Richard
Those Racetech Gold Valve Emulators are awesome & a game changer if you set them up right according to your weight & with Racetech springs.
Legend shocks 13 inch on my 13 streetglide, stock was 12, night and day better, i was surprized how good they were.
Hey Scotty, glad to see you’re putting more videos out on CZcams. I’m sure you know this but Harley isn’t known for its suspension and brakes. I have a couple bikes and I run progressive springs in my old evos and I’ve got full Legend suspension on my newer bagger (cartridges in front, Revo A 12” in rear). I love the Legend suspension man.
We met in Sturgis 2022. I brought my copy of your book and you signed it. You showed my wife how to make the kitty cat closer in the picture with a phone camera.
I don't ride on turd world roads. But, I switched out stock rear shocks on my H.D to Ohlins that have adjustment. I couldn't afford Ohlins front suspension, so I left it as is. I found that because the rear shocks can be adjusted that made the stock front suspension work much better. The front suspension is not as stiff and unforgiving. You could call Ohlins tech support, they will tell you everything you want to know about suspensions.
Scotty my experience was similar. I updated to cartridges because everyone said they were amazing. I wasn’t impressed, it was not a night and day difference. It’s is slightly better, but if I had to do it over again I would not have changed from stock, not worth the money IMO.
Good morning Scotty, Godspeed, my friend
At 40,000 miles I replaced my fork oil at my brother's. He's a suspension expert for Pro Circuit so while they were off he replaced Everything, seals, bushings, piston rings, even though there was almost no wear. Planning on cruising by his place in another 40K, plus there's free beer there 😉
I put Progressive 422's on the rear and their heavy duty springs up front on my 2011 Softail Deluxe. Absolutely a night and day difference. Paired with a Mustang seat I can ride all day, and I have a bad back. You don't realize how shitty stock suspension is until you have a good setup.
I put in a spcial head nut on top with a small bolt in the middle'..So when you want to change the oil in the shocks..You only need to un'screw the little bolt and pour in the oil...{don't have to un'lock the springs}}
Now thats cool. Never heard of em. Where did u get those?
@@scootertrampscotty Another mod is to drill and thread the fork cap to take a Schrader valve and run 4Psi (4 - 6, I always ran 4) pumped in with a Bicycle pump. A lot of Japanese bikes have models with or without this as stock, so I either swapped the caps, or the tubes complete (the tubes are the same, it's low pressure). Harley have some front ends with this, (so caps should be available) but drilling and threading yourself is easy enough.. ..and if you want "night and Day" difference..
@@simoncaddick9085
U have to keep filling them though and these are under the fairing. This bike came with air forks.
I haven't worked on shocks/forks in years, and definitely haven't done anything on "modern" components, so take this for what it is worth.
My experience has been that any unit that is meant to work and move better under less than ideal conditions will also fail quicker, even when they claim it won't. It just has to work more to absorb the energy from the bumps and that energy has to go somewhere, which is usually the springs and seals. Which is why I always used rebuildable parts. It isn't that hard to replace the seals or springs, I have found it is usually the seals that go, and if you replace the seals quickly and don't ride much with the bad seals, the springs tend to last for close to forever. In your case, carrying a few extra seals wouldn't take up hardly any space. Is it a pain in the ass? Sure. But those are the trade offs that you have to consider. Is the improved ride worth the maintenance costs? If not, then you need to go for a system that doesn't require as much maintenance, but that comes at the cost of ride quality. Goldwings, for example, recommend fork seal changes every 15-20k miles. For you that would be what, every 8 months to a year? Might be worth it, might not, just personal choice. With suspensions, I definitely believe it is just a series of tradeoffs and there is no single silver bullet.
Anyways, hope the new motor is treating you well!
Fork seals generally blow because dirt and bug guts hit the sliders and are then pushed down into the seal. Ive never blown a fork seal because these baggers have covers over the sliders. If they didnt id put something aftermarket over them.
Scotty thanks for the front end video I ride a1988 harley just rebuild my front end with Progressive parts
All I know is us old guys worry about the shocks taking the shocks instead of our backs.
Shocking isn't it?
Scotty, i put a progressive drop spring setup on my softtail. They give you a plastic spacer for the top and give you a dimension for it. I didn't like the ride, so i messed with it. I made the spacer much shorter and put different weight oils in for a while. I got the heavy oil in and the spacer at half of what it is supposed to be. It now works great. I live in rural South Carolina and we have some really bad roads here.
Love your tech stuff😍✌
Appreciate the honest review
Im 65 years old. Not only do I remember, still want a Hodaka. Combat Wombat would still be fun to me.
Awesome video. Thanks
I put emulators on my 1995 fatboy
And also have ktech cartridge front end on my other 49mm harley .i will always do suspension on Harley’s
Before anything
Great tip 👍 thank you
Put those same emulators in my EVO FSXTC nearly 20 years ago, made a HUGE difference in rough curves. Still work.
Excellent
Thank you for the tech advice
That was well explained! 👍🏻
Thanks pal, great presentation and very informative.
good info thanks Scotty
Just look at the Bagger racing series and use what they use.I raised my Ultra Limited with 14” suspension for ground clearance since I live in the mountains and like to pass sport bikes in the corners on a big heavy bike lol I’m 6-8 so touching the ground isn’t an issue
Lol Hodaka Road Toad and the Bultaco.
Good job. Felt pretty good to me
Great informative video scotty. Those ful blown ohlines and legend front end are thousands and i think thats were the night and day difference is. I aint got thousands like that anymore, so im forced to ride stock...even the back stock shocks are junk. I had an 03 road king with progressive rear shocks and front springs with thicker oil and that was great.....now i have an 04 with stock front and it's horrible. One day im gonna get progressive again.
Scotty; Great video. Never thought about front struts. Enjoyed video. God Bless safe ridin rubber down
Thanks for the videos Scotty. I appreciate it brother. Keep doing what you’re doing brother I know you’re happy live free. Enjoy what you’re doing. Life is short.
I take it that you don't have air in the front. On my later EVO, I was advised to eliminate the air system, invert the springs, and use 50W fork oil. This eliminated brake dive and improved dampening. That was 10 years ago and with changing the fork oil every other year, It has been a great ride.
It had air
Thanks Scotty. I will check out the gold valves!
Thank you brother Scotty for the video. That let's me know I'll definitely be doing some modifications on forks and shocks.
Great video. I put Legends on the rear of my 2006 Road King and they made a very noticeable improvement. I am still running stock in the front
Long ago I had a Honda CB 900 that had air suspension. The front shocks leaked and I never fixed them. So I would just run to the gas station and pump up the air in them. It was like a rigid front end. I let a little air out of the tire. Back then, what ever works..
Hodaka was my first bike too.
Thanks for the tips......(i had a hodaca 90 ) good weele bikes....
I had a Hodaka Ace 100, my first bike.
Good to see you back on CZcams Sotty. Keep the vids coming and I will upvote and comment. BTW followed you on Odysee so didn't miss a thing.
Thank you
Hey Scotty, I just did the Racetech setup on my 98 RG. Wasn’t happy till I put some miles on it. Like you said. Much better.
Thanks
When I first rode my current bike, an XL1200L Sportster with the stock rock-hard tires from almost 20 years before, my first thought was that I had made a terrible mistake going with a Harley, since this was my first American bike. New tires made a BIG difference, but it still rode like a log wagon compared to my old Yamaha Virago 1100 that I had years before. The Virago still had conventional forks, but they were WAY smoother riding. So I went suspension shopping and bought Progressive's lowest priced Lifetime Warranty shocks, the 444's and a set of Progressive's lifetime warranty cartridge fork internals and progressive rate springs and the bike was transformed! It was pretty stiff for maybe the first 500 to 1000 miles, but it rides WAY better now. It's like you stretched the wheelbase out and added a pile of weight to it. It is stable, really smooth and responsive, and it handles so much better. The fork cartridges are not adjustable in compression or rebound, but there are stackable removable spacers for spring preload. They also take only a fraction of the amount of fork oil, since the oil is now only to lubricate the bushings and seals. I think it takes 6 ounces per leg. The 444's in the rear are preload adjustable too, but no gas adjustment, with progressive rate springs. Real teeth clickers will still slam the suspension shut, but it handles normal bumps much much better. Progressive sells cheaper shocks, but they only have a 1 year warranty or something like that. Their Made In USA gear has a lifetime warranty, so since I buy things to keep and ride the wheels off of em, I ponied up the extra for that warranty, and that Made In USA peace of mind. So far, so good.
Lifetime warrantees worth the money on this stuff id say.
I had a 1991 FLHS, just like yours but no tour pak. Rode it casually, not touring like you. Had the bushings, seals and oil replaced in the forks along with gold emulator valves and Racetech springs installed. I was very satisfied with the improvement. Oklahoma roads weren't like Mexico, but not first world either.
I recon you should do comic style book / roadside tips of all the quirky homgrown tech tips & missalanious fixes, people have advised you to try on your journeys , ps, id read it 😂🙏.
that being said ,,you can take them apart and adjust or change the small spring ,, sucks but possible ,,great vid
I thought I just had a bad seat until I put legend, suspension on my Dyna. It was so much better. I had to put it on the road glide too.
Truth be told I have used all of the off the shelf suspension and just like you noticed no dramatic change not like it was advertised anyway. Until Penske shocks. Custom built for your weight and cargo and style of riding all billet fully adjustable and rebuildable dyno tested with a printout graph absolutely blown away by the ride and handling never would have guessed a bagger could handle amazing and ride like a recliner
Troy Wilbur's suspension from Germany Works real good so I've heard I've never tried it
Hey Scotty. Recently found your channel and enjoy your vids. In brief, you described the basic damping rod limitations well. Static holes/channels dictating the oil flow is a crude mechanism for governing damping. Simultaneously being too mushy & too harsh depending on the input: fast suspension movement, slow, repeated hits, etc.
The emulators are a good, low priced solution for better control of damping in conventional forks - controlling the oil flow via a type of shim and a tunable spring. A valve. Drilling the rod removes the old system front the equation - your damping is now dictated by the emulator valve.
Proper cartridges will have a shim stacks to more precisely control both compression and rebound oil circuits. That's a complete replacement here and come in a variety of flavors & complexity - mid valves, IFP, bladder, open carts, closed carts and on and on. Sky's the limit and so can the price. RT also makes drop in Gold Valves that have their proprietary stacks for OEM carts - but expensive after market carts that replace basic damp rod suspension *should* have reasonable damping and can be fine tuned via suspension tuners (reshim).
Anyway, what you did is sensible. SpringWt for your weight, load and riding style. Emulators for better damping. Proper oil wt per the instructions. And finally all bushing in good condition to prevent binding. Front wheel installation is less finicky on conventional forks vs. USD - but still worth confirming it's all together correctly to prevent any binding as the suspension moves through it's travel. Safe journeys.
I've put them in for other people, never get any negative feedback, so I assume they're happy. And believe me, I always hear about it when they aren't!
Wilbers Suspension. Not cheap. German I believe. Game changer For HD. Suppose to self level too.
My Dad bought a used ‘78 Hodaka 250 Street and trail in the early 80s so he could ride with me. That bike wasn’t the best for off road, but in my pre-legal years it gave me so much freedom because I could go anywhere on the street with that thing and cops never batted an eye.
Its an old bike. Got mine new in 1971. $325 i think.
we have some reaily good raods & some horrid roads here down under... l like the sound of these improvments but l probly wouldnt do this... maybe when mine blow out again.. cheers
Scotty, I found that it’s not only the springs. The tire, wheel, bearings, balance of the wheel all come into play. I had to change the front wheel on my FLH, New tires. The tire cupped due to the front end action. Wiped the wheel bearings too. Oh yeah, check the brake rotor. That messed me up once. Newer rotors are thinner and they wrap with real low (20K-30K miles) so, check all of it.
Great info as usual...just an fyi, my 2008 hd when new I changed out the springs to a progressive set for about 100 bucks, 1 hour install. Night and day diff. in materials used, manufacturing accuracy and ride...best money spent on upgrades ever... Ride safe...
Ive heard this from friends. But changing springs wont affect the fact that the hydraulics lock up at higher speeds on my forks. 😊
Yep I remember hodaka.
My sporty had a nasty front end dive when braking and always bottomed out on small bumps. Stock HD fork springs are way too soft. I replaced the springs with Progressive $99 springs. Huge improvement from stock. Now I want to try cartridges.
My problem wasnt so much the springs as that the hydraulics lock up at higher speeds. Different springs or oil might help, but they wont affect the actual problem.
Good stuff buddy. Be safe traveling. Hoping to catch up with you in 24'
I hope Scotty makes it up to the East coast in '24. Would be cool as hell to meet him in person.
U comin to Sturgis Emery?
@scootertrampscotty Yes sir, I'm going to try.
Hay Scotty first off i appreciate your videos.
I used to ride an 05 goldwing and the forks on it were absolute shit. Hard as a rock. And it was a noted problem on goldwings.
And now on my 04 electraglide still bad but as bad. My bike is a kansas police bike with the air shocks and factory forks and to be honest she ride pretty darn good. Sloow as fuck but soft. But yeah get them forks dialed in so i can see how ya did it.😊
Most guys that spend the money have to lie to justify it, so thanks for the honesty. I ride a whole lot of poorly maintained roads and this was on my radar and still is, but now I have more reasonable expectations.
Iv had gold valve and oliens front cartridge.. To me gold valves were a tiny bit better Olien cartridges were a LOT better
I think Don may be right about the cartridges. Id do that if i did it again.
I am not a professional but some of the front suspension takes air and no oil, and I've seen the seals blow out once they get up there and it seems once they blow, they blow on a regular. That travel you're talking about is like what we run on our street raced and no prep drag cars because that's what makes all the power bite and stick to the road but it's not comfortable. Once you get that front end moving with the right pressure for it to get full benefits you need to switch or make adj to the rear shocks, whether it be pressure or a new length and psi for the front and rear to work together at full potential. Then things like tire style and pressure, riding seat, and wheel bearings all make a difference. I know I rode a 2019 road glide with all custom front and rear suspension and it was like a Cadillac with a big butt seat and that thing went down through those country back roads like I was riding on air. Now I've not done a lot of suspension work on bikes. I am given suspension advice and experience based on my drag car that sees street time and advice is also based on my tow pig. It seems if you noticed a difference in Mexico when you come back to the States you should notice a bigger difference, I'd guess.
Good deal Scotty I'm getting ready to replace my 99 road king front suspension too but with a Legend suspension cartridge set up and ditch the air ride. When was the last time you did your head bearings ? My bike has about 55k I'm thinking just bite the bullet and change them out now and by the time they need service again I'll be gone !
Front end movement has alot to do how the front axl has been tightened. If the fork is binding narrow or wide at the front axl its going to be bouncy and lacks small movement.
True, but the problem in this case was in the hydraulics.
True, but the problem in this case was in the hydraulics.
That garage looks pretty familiar 😂😉 hope HB treated ya well
He definatly did!
It was a great stay.
I did the exact same thing new springs new valves did all the work myself less than $200 well worth it but not as good as the cartridges still wouldn't pay the $ 1200 for the cartridges
Use a lighter weight fork oil and air your tires down in Mexico :)
My buddy had a Hodaka 100 we rode the snot outta in the early 80's
Hodaka by PABATCO, Pacific Basin Trading Co. Showing my age.
Geezer! 😂
👍
I got Legend front and back and thought it was night and day. But what do I know, I thought Rushmore was “Breathtaking”! 😂😂😂
I think Black Mountain Rd is breathtaking!
@@scootertrampscotty then no doubt, I’ll ride it.
Legend revo A in Australia $1800 do the front as well you bill could well be $4k plus.Put the ARC Legends on rear $2400 plus front then it gets into the big $$.I dont ride much these days so for me its not worth it.
Id simply live with the bumps too at that price.
Roy said he'd like to send you a sheepskin for your seat. Roy said they are life changers.
Till it rains 😂
@@scootertrampscotty Roy confirms that you are correct, Roy said don't let it get wet.
I spent 400.00 on rear wideglide shocks they will never wear out cause they don't do anything, I don't have the money to do it again so I ride a hard tail lol
You're supposed to change the fork oil Every so often.. it's part of the maintenance.. I lowered my front end 1.5 inches and I used a lighter weight oil which helped.. if you're front end is bottoming out then use heavier oil.. the few hundred dollar aftermarket spring kits like Legend offers are the way to go even on the brand new ones.. the new one's handle better but the suspension sucks.. in my opinion. My buddy ended up putting Legend front and rear on his 2021.. he added adjustable air ride on the rear after riding mine that has air.. air ride with a pump is the only way to go..you adjust it for comfort depending upon wether you have a passenger, loaded down with gear and the road you're on..
First kit I used was a $300 kit off ebay.. it lasted for years.. simple to install and came with shocks
What about swingarm bushings and the Bushings for your handle bars.. alot of people don't think of stuff like that and it will really make a difference especially if you use Quality aftermarket bushings..
@@bendaves77
My bars are solid mounted.
Need to change oil just like the motor, those gold valves are highly adjustable, race tech sets them up,
For each bike.
I run progressive front and rear, cost a lot, but I like running canyons worth it to me, night and day difference in handling.
Hey Scottie, what do you normally eat when traveling? Restaurants are expensive, and I don’t think you carry a stove.
Cold food, canned food, resturants, delies, grocery stores. But in Mex resturant food averages around $5.
I have the same problem on my 04 Low Rider. Harley told me some Dynas have an oil adjustment at the bottom of the fork tube, but not the Low Rider. So, I bought new stiffer springs and plan to switch them out over the winter. See what happens....?
My problem wasnt so much the springs an that the hydraulics lock up at higher speeds. Different springs or oil might help, but they wont affect the actual problem.
@@scootertrampscotty My problem is forks bottom out if I hit a pothole or a bad dip in the pavement. At higher speed it's OK.
I did not know work shocks were out of business
I think they have been for quite a while now.
HODAKA! Was it the Dirt Squirt , Combat Wombat, or Road Toad...?
It was actually a Steen with a Hodoka motor. Very rare.
How do you get the spring tension on that brass insert exactly the same for both forks?
4 turns down
Are roads are shot stay away from Nashville area on 75 pot hole city
The cartridges are actually struts just like struts on a car
🤘😎🤘
p0g0 p0g0 p0g0
ill never give up me springer. but seri0usly eye been putn 2gether a hydr0lic f0rk f0r my hardtail. g0t tubes f0r a 39mm & triple trees fur a 41mm, s0 half 0f each.😝
I tried using Maxima 5 weight fork oil on my 1985 FLHTC. Apparently HD type E is 20 weight. It bottomed out on the first bump. I have Maxima 15 weight now which seems fine
I got 15wt in these.
I run Wilber’s ldc nivomat shocks in the rear and their springs in the front. With their oil. They can handle a real beating in Mexico. Just watch million dollar bogan riding from la to Bolivian he put those to the test. And they passed
My problem wasnt so much the springs an that the hydraulics lock up at higher speeds. Different springs or oil might help, but they wont affect the actual problem 😊
Scotty your 91 is a year newer than my bike
Got a guy on an 89 bagger down here. Guess we all complete the set.
Iv had gold valve and oliens front cartridge.. To me gold valves were a tiny bit better Olien cartridges were a LOT better
I think i would agree
@@scootertrampscotty i been using Ohlins (when i had the $) since before Legends started in 1998. A good product but a notch better for the same price is ohlins in my opinion..
@@donpet8258
Not the same price i got em for 😊
@@scootertrampscotty good for you ! You work at that video stuff, U deserve some perks
@@donpet8258
Them things do take a lot more time than one would think. Not complaining though.
Get a Police seat you won't care about shocks much. Think about how many hours a day the Coppers spend on their bikes they know what's best. Mine was awesome, but so is long travel off road suspension on high end adventure bikes but $$$
And I know because I live in Woke California where hotel rooms for Illegals is more important than road repair. Anyway.
@@guy7670
Its total bullshit!
Too much unsprung weight! Harley designers and buyers love the huge tire, rim, fender, and massive wide front forks from the 50’s. Bad bad bad.
Yes, you are paying 2000's dollars for 1940's technology's
lol get a gold wing
You are going to have suspension issues because you are loaded down most of the time..
Both my truck and fltru seem to be running smoothly with" some" weight .
@andrewbassett2507 who said anything about running right?? And a truck is designed and built to haul things..
I'm super happy with my Legends front and rear. I ride a 07 Wideglide. Big difference.
I've found the whole bike doesn't work. Never again buy a Hardly.
Pretty much true. But i never asked much from my panhead and it didn't disappoint. But i would sell it, trade it or get rid of it for a broad
I wouldn't
Those dirt bikes were so dam noisy
Harleys aint?
@@scootertrampscotty hoodaka stock our of the box had a distinct violent scream like cats fighting in a garbage can and yes there are the harley owners that do strange things to there bikes resulting in them putting in ear plugs before thay start there bikes,,,I'm not really a believer in the laud pipes save lives,,thay do fuck up your hearing
@@alkempton1512agree with everything you say. I do like the high compression cackle, but not everyday all day. Harley riders for the most part are sheeple and worse then your old ladies with shoes. Just a big kids pissing contest
How in the hell do you manage to stay alive and not kidnap material in mexico????