OLD vs NEW Road Bikes! 10 years of evolution, but which is better?
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- I've compared a 2011 Cannondale SuperSix Evo to a 2021 Giant TCR Advanced Pro Disc to see what the differences and tech developments have been in the past 10 years and then ride both bikes to see which is better
Chapters
00:00 Intro
1:06 Cannondale SuperSix Evo details
3:09 Giant TCR Advanced Pro Disc
7:21 Weight Differences
9:44 Riding the Cannondale
13:39 Riding the Giant
15:38 Conclusion
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The horizontal top tube and classic road bike looks of the old evo frames is great.
Yeah, love the classic look. @dave arthur, could you make a list of modern road bikes with a bit traditional look ?😁 (No dropped seatstays, horizontal top tubes)
💯👍🏻
Supersix evo still looking bad ass
It's incledible to see how the supersix is sooo BEAUTIFUL compared to the new Giant, and even to the new Supersix 2020.
That supersix is still a faster, stiffer and better race bike by today's standard as well.
Agreed. Brakes are overrated on race bikes anyway! 😜
I Got the Supersix evo in 2011 same blk/wht color in this video and to this day i still have it. I rode other bikes and nothing compares the way Evo rides. It rides buttery smooth but i would smoke every modern bikes today with my evo either Climb or crit rides. To this day i still get a praise with my evo bike. How light and look good the evo is.
@@popitn2nd yes still better than new evo
Cannondale SuperSix looks still amazing compared to the new bike, after ten years. And it looks also more beautiful than the new 2020 model.
Yep. Don't get me started on the ruination of that classic frame..
Ur damn rite.emanuel
Just bought a 2004 “made in America” Cannondale six thirteen Healthnet team bike with probably less than 500 miles. Put Dura Ace 7900 shifters on it with a Deda cockpit and instantly realized how awesome bikes that are like new built 16 years ago. The shifting is flawless. Sprint stiffness uncompromising. The extra 1 lb weight and lack of disc brakes irrelevant when your racing criteriums and going after Strava KOMs. Why pay $10k plus when you can get an e bay special for $1250 with new shifters,cockpit, and saddle.
Agreed. I buy the best frames with the lowest groupset, then upgrade the groupset as the bits wear out and end up with a greater bike than what I started out with.
When people buy better groupsets than frames, even if they upgrade their groupset when they wear out, they're still riding a lesser frame than had they just got the better frame from the get-go.
I upped everything on my lowly $1,650 leftover SuperSix EVO and put together a fully custom top of the line equipped rig and with all the parts I took off of it, I slapped them on another frameset and I now have 2 great bikes (one 105 and one Dura-Ace) for less than half the price of one of Cannondale's flagships.
Totally agree, whoever this chump is...he’s into discs and that why he’s getting slower!
Second-hand stuff are less expensive? Shocking. Please tell us where we can buy ten of those 2004 bikes with less than 500 miles. Why pay 10k? Because some people just have the money to buy the latest “turn-key” solution and can’t be bothered to spend weeks on e bay to find a hidden gem. For some people, the saved time is worth the extra money spent. Shocking isn’t it?
I have a 2008 Madone 5.5 with an Ultegra triple (FC6603) that I moved over from a 2007 PIlot 5.2 replacing the compact double that came stock on the Madone. I cannot find replacement parts for the triple. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that buying an older bike can bring its own set of challenges. My options going forward appear to be a Tiagra groupset and going back to a CD. Which means I also lose one of my favorite features of the FC6603... the gear position indicator.
@@Dee-Ell Those "people" are called douche bags
Im currently using the 2013 supersix evo dura ace and this video cemented my views on how I don't have a need or want to change to the latest iteration. Its just all about the disc brake.Not much difference besides the tyre width choice and disc brakes. and the weight on the cannondale is just amazing. feels like a feather.
Electronic groupsets, stifness, aero, gears, breaking, comfort, tubless.. many ways to make us spend our money 😀
2018 SS Evo DA owner here! So true, bro!
Agreed. I just picked up a 2019 CAAD12 with 105 for $1600. It is beautiful to ride. Upgrading to new Mavic Krysiums with 28mm GP 5000 and it is plenty smooth even on harsh roads. I do miss the disc brakes but once I change my braking technique when I ride it it is no problem. Also going to get some Swiss stop pads and should be fine. Compared to my all Ultegra 2019 Defy Advanced the Giant feels heavy, slow and dull, even with Vitoria Corsas.
The fact the cycling media are now actively promoting heavier bikes, despite years of doing exactly the opposite, is absolutely hilarious.
That’s because people realized that aerodynamic plays a huge role during a bike race, especially during a sprinting. More aero means much sharper frame which means more materials which means more weight. You certainly couldn’t feel the importance of the aerodynamic if you can’t cruise at an average speed of 20mph or 35kph for 60mil or 100km. Those aerodynamic advantages are certainly more important than saving a few hundred grams of weight. Plus a heavy aero bike looks much cooler than a thin round climbing bike.
@@leeasy7112 I was primarily referring to the relentless marketing of disc brake models to be honest but the point still stands. And as yet another rider of a rim braked, standard framed bike lifts Le Tour championship today I think we can safely say that these gimmicks pushed by the manufacturers is nothing short of rubbish!!!
Because weight matters far less than rolling resistance and drag.
But, I agree, that a single faceted number like weight would appeal to a simpler audience when used as the sole benchmark of performance, as you have so evidently demonstrated in this case.
@@craigmc9877 exist a reason why do the pros uses disc brakes, they won’t use things that will make them slower, right now i think that everyone uses or if is not the most does
@@leeasy7112 LOL a frame makes no difference you are ignoring the massive rider on the bike go look at frontal surface there is basically nothing
Remember when they had wasps in the bottle cages ?
I remember Mark. It wasnt pretty.
What’s the story behind this? I’ve just recently got into biking so I’ve got no clue.
@@0RANGOTANG 01:30
I honestly never noticed until you mentioned it!
Mark Hales that wasp is carb loading on spillage. A juiced wasp is
on the loose
I both enjoyed and was discouraged by your piece comparing your 2012 Cannondale to your 2020 Giant. As a roadie, tri-athlete, former triathlon shop owner and general bike nut over the past 40+ years, I have to conclude that the state-of-the-art in 2020 is once again a triumph of marketing over engineering excellence. Given the choice as an athlete who wants to win races, I would pick the 2012 Cannondale over the 2020 Giant bicycle in a heartbeat. It is a superior product by every measure that matters. It looks better too! It is worth pointing out that marketing always wins when the cost of marketing is less than the cost of engineering and this is clearly the case in the bike industry nowadays because the bicycle is already a highly engineering device. Making further engineering improvements within the rules and regulations set out by the UCI is more expensive than simply switching braking systems. Wouldn’t it be nice if the UCI eased some of the 30+ year old restrictions on frame tube ratios or minimum bike weight. If they did this, the engineers could go back to work on the things that mattered and customers would get new products that actually delivered more performance instead of less!
The primary engineering goals for road bikes concern performance improvements, period. These include reducing weight, reducing air drag, reducing transmission losses, and reducing rider fatigue. It is these improvements that will get an athlete to the finish line faster. Any changes that compromise these goals cannot be considered legitimate improvements at least not from an engineering perspective.
For example, putting disc brakes from a mountain bike on a road racing bicycle is not an engineering advance because the additional cost of the tradeoff between increased safety and reduced performance (significant increases in both weight and air drag) is unnecessary for road riders. Rim brakes deliver all the stopping power that is required for the lowest possible weight and air resistance; the tradeoff between safety and performance was optimized a long time ago. Disc brakes require the wheels to be stronger, heavier and less aerodynamic (as a result of the increased spoke count and length) in order to transfer braking torque from the hub to the tire. For safety reasons, they also require a more secure and heavier frame dropout and hub axle.
Justifying large section wheels and frame arches large enough to accomodate 32C tires in the name of improved comfort (reduced rider fatigue) also delivers negative performance and value because both of these features increase air resistance and weight. Such improvements in comfort could otherwise be delivered by simply switching to (unpopular) 25C tubular tires. While it cannot be denied that tubulars have fallen out of fashion on account of the need to glue them on, it also cannot be denied that they deliver the most performance in terms of having the lowest weight (for both the tyre and wheel) and the lowest air drag, plus superior comfort and safety. So why not just make better tubulars that eliminate gluing you ask? Wait….because that has already been done 20+ years ago by Tufo. Tufo has made a beaded tubular casing that allows their tubulars to be mounted on clincher rims that are widely available today. Now if a rim maker were to design a new tubular rim that fully supported the belly of the tubular while providing a low profile bead seat similar to a clincher rim, the problem would be “fully” solved once and for all. This is the type of system improvement that would actually deliver performance and engineering value to the customer.
In closing my engineering rant I will say that I have ridden and experimented with virtually every wheel and tire combination that has hit the market since the late 70s and no other type system can touch the performance, comfort and safety (no front rim skating in the event of a blowout) of a 25C tubular. There are also many very affordable brands with incredibly tough and flat resistant casings available in the market. For additional flat prevention adding a few grams of liquid sealant is all that is required. For those who doubt my conviction, I would encourage them to train for an Ironman triathlon or ride a few centuries and compare tubulars to clinchers on alternating 150+ km weekend training rides.
mpvsystems one not so small point, carbon rim brakes have the unfortunate defect of failing due to carbon fibre overheating. There’s nothing you can do about it that’s the limitation of the material and it has nothing to do with material defects.
Also they generally hardly work!
You mean as the frame but for components it's way better now. Dura ace 2020 is superior than dura ace 2010 right.
Also disk brakes are way more reliable and efficient than rim. There are reasons why they are going global. It's not just marketing
SuperSix Evo is a tough comparison.... Folks are still using 5+ year old hi-mods as competition hill climbing bikes because they were and are still that great. And agree in general that frames haven’t evolved that much. Having said that, after using discs and di2 for regular riding, not sure there’s a reason to go back to cables (if budget permits). Also, discs are great for us cyclists in that there’s no reason you should need to swap out perfectly good $2k carbon wheels from brake wear (or have to store them for the winter)
@@vaporisedair4919 No, good modern carbon rim brake rims don't do that at all. Many have been tested well beyond the limits you would ever encounter in any real life situation. Similarly, braking on the best modern carbon rims is excellent. As I say elswehere, it's highly ironic that the problems that existed 10 years ago with carbon rims for rim brakes have now been completely solved, just as the industry is forcing us to move to discs...
Couldn't agree more! was about to post this exact thing, though maybe not as in depth. This video is nothing but an example of marketing vs physics. There is absolutely no way the TCR is as fast as the Canondale. Between the disc-brakes and the flat section/tube profiles. The TCR is an aerodynamic nightmare. It weighs more, isn't as fast. But marketing tells us it's newer and better in every way.. because well.. they need to sell us something new every year. :(
13:30 - Opposed to rim brake - "hydraulic disc brake is no noise, no squeal, just loads of power." - I wish i had your disc brakes because y impression of disc brake is more noise and a ton more of squeal.
That SS Evo is still stunning - can't beat the looks of a traditional frame geometry. And providing you ride on smooth, dry roads, rim brakes & 23-25mm wheel/ tyres are normally up to the job.
However, on potholed, pitted poorly surfaced roads, then wider wheels/tyres are more comfortable - and thanks to disc brake tech you can go wider.
Your comment reads like you're looking at a 911 GT car vs an LMP1... When really it's like two sequential gen 911s... Barely different
I find your videos and there insights great to watch and get informed! Ironically in my final analysis on a new bike purchase since my last one in 2008 I was between the Evo and TCR! Being on a retirement budget I went with the TCR advanced disk and in my opinion all the performance and ride results are true to what you have indicated! Thanks for your accurate analysis
I’ve been cycling for 46 years and witnessed fantastic changes and improvements.
Currently I own a 2016 Giant Defy with disk brakes and DI2. Comfortable and fits my requirements. Also a 2008 Felt F3.
I quite like the simplicity of the older models, especially when travelling to countries where it may be difficult to find parts in case something happens to the bike.
Keep up the good work.
Great comparisons, more of this please David!
Thanks brix! Any particular comparisons you want to see?
david arthur Hi 👋- maybe a Colnago Concept vs Cervélo S5 or a Festka vs Cervélo r5? Also maybe an older Moots vs Curve Belgie V3?? Food for thought!
I have a 2011 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 and love the rim brakes. I find them quieter than the disc brakes on my other bike.
Disk breaks are selling because bike shops ‘push’ them. I own bikes with both, but still prefer rim breaks ( and yes I’m on carbon fiber rims), you may want to try some different break pad brands.
Yeah thats funny. A few weeks ago i bought a new saddle in my local BS. I asked the staff about their opinion on rim brakes. They said, rim brakes are sh*t. You NEED disc brakes, WE ONLY sell disc breaks..... fun fact: 2 Years ago 70% of their bikes were rim :D
That's interesting. I went the opposite on my MTB. I LOVE disk brakes especially in wet conditions.
Rims just look so much better and are a few hundred grams lighter of course
The big advantage of disc brakes on road bikes, is they have made lots and lots of money for the cycling industry. Best on mountain bikes.
@@lipsterman1 I suppose there is a reason why disc breaks have been the standard on mid range and above MTBs for years now, but not on raod bikes. First of all, weight is more important on a road bike. Second, riding in wet and especially muddy contions is far more common on MTBs. I'd even go as far as saying that a gravel bike should probably have disc brakes. But a road bike? Nope.
the wasp in the bottle holder on the Cannondale knows that it is a S W E E T bike.
Wow - 10 years! My oldest road bike still owned is from 1982, now that's some evolution!
Hi David, really well made video, I like the information, your opinion, and also the on screen text. You could put a bit more information at points, but great work and keep it up.
Great video, enjoyed it, thank you.
10 years on that Cannondale still looks pretty good and I suppose you still ride it regularly. That gives me hope for my bike, which recently turned 5 hehe. I've bought 4 other bikes since then (TT, MTB and gravel) and sold 2 of them but the road bike remains. It has rim brakes but alloy rims and yes, they're not as good as discs and cannot fit tires larger than 25mm, but for flat roads they're ok. All that being said, I have no plans of buying another road bike in the near future, espcially one with rim brakes.
Great video! Just what I need after ride as well as a cuppa.
Excellent unbiased opinion.....Cheers Dave!
I wish Cannondale makes a updated version of the old CAAD like thru axle, disc brakes and internal routing.
If my rimbrakes loose performance and squeal I sand the glazed brakeblocks down and they will brake as well as my alu rimmed bike again ( in the dry ! )
I do prefer my DB Orbea in the wet or in the mountains but in Flanders my rim brakes do the job perfectly!
Maintenance is key, for discbrakes too.
Your Cannondale deserves a ( twenty minute ) polish and wax-treatment, stunning bike!
A clean bike is a fast bike!
I'd ride the EVO any day. My 9-year old one (same as in the video) is still sublime in handling, weight, power transfer, and gorgeous comfort.
Moot point, but always loved the white/black colour scheme too -- stands out in style (vs 'yet another black bike') as well as in traffic.
Update: Nothing against disc brakes and the whole festival of snooze, conveyor belt, marketing push, but I've raced confidentially on rim brakes too.
Sure, I'll wait a few years to see how compact and more ingenious disc braked can (surely, hopefully) become :)
Disc brakes and fatter tyres have been such a significant development over the last 10 years in terms of rider enjoyment, even aside from aero!
love the wasp nestling in your bottle cage at 1:20-25
That Cannondale is super freaking light! I’d ride that today without question.
Great video David!
Glad you enjoyed it
Reynolds power blue pads work crazy good! Sure disc are better, but for a road bike on open roads, no problem with rim brakes!
Reynolds assault ctg with the power blue pads. Stops better than my alloys
Yeah, those things kick ass. They also last about 5,000 times longer than Kool Stops.
Wow, you’ve done a fantastic job maintaining that Cannondale!
Brilliant Dave! 👍🏻
Got to go with disc brakes, been riding them on MTB's for a good while and rode the previous cantilever and 'V' brakes, no comparison! I have a Merlin X Cross bike with Force 1 groupset & hydraulic discs, very impressed, great stopping power & modulation on a bike with dropped bars. I have just bought a 2020 TCR advanced pro disc2 in metallic blue and looking forward to receiving and getting out on it. Still a few around but 2021 bike with DI2 electronic shifting also tempting! Great reviews, David
I have a Cannondale Synapse with Hydraulic discs that I use in winter and a Wilier GTR Team with rim brakes for summer. I think the disc brakes are fine for winter riding, though they are fiddly to adjust, a bit of a pain actually. The rim brakes on the Wilier work well with my Dura-ace C24s as the wheels are part carbon/ part alloy, the brake track being alloy. I like the rim brakes simplicity, aesthetically, and the fact that they need little or no adjustment. My Wilier is not high mod but it's still a lot lighter and it doesn't look all clunky like the Cannondale. I think disc brakes are cool but I'll keep them for winter riding. Thanks for the video.
Nice video. I think your Cannondale Supersix has cleaner lines, the tubes and cables just seem to flow.
And far less maintenance issues with exposed cables.
I am new to road cycling and just bought an "old" K2 Mod 3.0 with Shimano 105 (older version) group set. All mechanical and rim breaks. I love the bike so far and honestly, since I am not a professional and I am in it for the fun and the exercise...I am okay with it not being modern.
I'm on a Tarmac SL7, but that Evo is beautiful. I'd love to ride it.
To me the classic SuperSix always wins. Just stunning and a great handling bike.
I love Giants for their "affordable" price, compared to some other brands but that Cannondale (maybe with a more up-to-date paint job) looks pretty good to me. I mainly ride/race criteriums where disk brakes are a waste, although there have been times coming down long mountain passes in the wet where I've wished I had disk brakes. Horses for courses. Great unbiased review!
Tour de France riders descended moutains for year at 100km with rim brake. It is enoigh for me
I’ll take both bikes👌🏽👌🏽. I have a 2011 Giant TCR composite and the components are recently upgraded to 105 R7000 groupsets. The LBS hate to work with internal cables.
I have a 2004 Giant XTC with hydraulic discs which are the best thing about it and have never changed the fluid or pads even though it gets a fair amount of use and they still work after going through a puddle which usually kills rim brakes for a few turns of the wheel, am also a big fan of Giants products
Which bike ride uphill faster?
I dont race and usually on casual group ride with my mates we “race” each other uphill but we go slow downhill.
If it's really steep, the lighter one
Awesome video, thanks
Dave I have a Supersix Evo hi-mod as well on 50mm carbon rims and also a caad12 disc. I agree disc is much better but the Evo is such a lovely handling bike and the carbon just absorbs more of the bumps than the caad. I should try a new Evo to see how ride comfort has improved. I 100% agree carbon rims in the wet on a decent are about the sketchiest thing you can do on a road bike getting to the bottom hitting the brakes and not being sure if your going to stop is frightening!
Thanks for sharing
I have an Evo 2 and an Evo 3 - the new Evo is amazingly smooth and stiffer than the old one...
The 2020 evo is a fast ride. Absolutely love it. Thinking about selling my tcr and getting one
I bought one of Giant's first carbon frames back in the mid-90' s alloy lugs and alloy forks it was branded as a Cadex prior to Giant using that name for their wheel sets. On certain road surfaces it made my feet hurt due to the high frequency vibrations coming from the alloy forks, it did handle well enough (I think) fast forward to 2019 and I hired a TCR whilst in Spain for a week it was night and day compared to that Cadex.
I just finished restoring a Bertin, Belgian bike, from 1977. All original except new rims.
Compare to my other carbonbikes....much relaxed, more stiff, better quality.....did 120 miles yesterday and was a real pleasure. And it costed me hardly 100 e
David what is the major difference from a 2011 giant tcr to 2021 giant tcr advanced with rim brakes? Could you do a comparison.
What’s really changed in recent years is how bomb proof and usable modern road bikes are. The Cannondale in the video a dainty thing and hard work in the wind the rain over pot holes etc. The Giant will lap up bad weather good weather pot holes big descents and quick stops all in its stride and feel really composed while it’s doing it. The new Trek Emonda SLR is probably the way things are going with it’s fully hidden cables and wires threaded BB and choices of colour schemes and Project one component tweaking make it stand out at the moment although the SL variants are quite heavy.
No the new bikes are not bombproof, quite the opposite. Do 20,000 km on each of those bikes and you will find out which one is a nightmare to maintain. Only prob with caad is bb30. If it had bsa 68mm i would have all day every day over the giant.
Another great video thanks David.
I have to wonder if the modern race bike has part morphed into the endurance market, so that a Defy or Synapse would only offer more stack height? Would love to see say TCR and Defy or SSE and Synapse compared with same tyre sizing..
I'd say the latest racing bikes like the TCR have certainly closed the gap to endurance bikes in terms of comfort and tyre clearance, but I think endurance bikes are still more comfortable, and then there's the geo differences to take into account which makes for a more relaxed and stable ride
The big difference in having disc brakes on road bikes is that they have made lots and lots and lots of money for the cycling industry.
Best used on mountain bikes where they are great.
Road bikes also go in mountains.
To be fair rim brakes have also made the cycling industry lots and lots of money
A bicycle is easily more expensive than a good motorcycle nowadays... That's weird.
the moment u see scope wheels first time on other bikes than my own ^_^
still love them and hope they get a little more famous
Excellent content.
if i woud see ssome one on the evo i wold still say:"Nice bike!"
Question what is the max tire size you can used super six evo?
Great video great work the joy of rideing I have the same evo but I Green and white with ff carbon wheels and a scalpel xtc bike
I’m riding the Evo with an aluminum wheel set in LA as a daily rider. It does the job.
Anyone have any thoughts on buying a 2011 Supersix (not sure if it’s EVO) as a first bike for $750? Does that seem like a decent deal?
I have a 2011 Canondale supersix 105 that I've completed upgraded to Ultegra R8000 with Reynolds 65 carbon wheels. I recently rode a 2021 S-works Tarmac SL-7 at the LBS and my first thought when I stood up and stepped on the pedals of the Tarmac was "this doesn't feel as responsive as my current bike!" At the end of the test ride I was still unimpressed. I want to "upgrade" to a new bike but am having trouble feeling like the upgrade is actually worth the money. And just my two cents worth on the disc vs rim brake debate: there's no magical difference unless descending in the rain, and then of course it's disc brakes hands down.
I ride both hydro disc, and rim brake bikes.
No doubt hydro disc stops great, but so do my combination for rim brakes:
Calipers are Dura Ace 7900 spec.
Aluminium rim with Kool Stop Salmon pads.
Carbon rims with Venn Fryse blue pads. Pull up absolutely fine, and I’m 120kg…
The irony is that in the last 10 years, braking tecnology on carbon rims has come on in leaps and bounds - indeed braking WAS awful on carbon rims back then, but if you just swapped the wheels on the supersix for some really good modern ones the braking would be transformed, rendering the discs on the TCR largely redundant.
@@The86rick You were doing something wrong then, or else are confusing stopping with something else (lever feel or whatever). Or are doing somethng extreme. How heavy are you?
@@neil7769 If a rider feels safer - he/she will ride faster - especially downhill. Can't argue with the subjective impression of safety (rim rider myself).
@@meibing4912 True - although there is no necessary relationship between a subjective impression of safety and actual safety. Perhaps the two systems are equally safe, but discs make some people feel safer? They may ride faster, but possibly also more dangerously.
David. that 10 year old Cannondale still looks grate today. Thanks for the video.
No problem 👍
Truth.
I'd take that Cannondale any day. Love the looks and that paint work.
The key thing is making road bikes comfortable for an ageing market. Kids don't buy bikes they want to be on love island or in the gym drinking protein. Accommodation of big volume tyres a starter for ten 28mm tyres have 54% more air in the chamber thus more comfort. Thank god Tony Martin won the world's TT on 25mm to set it alight. Discs use less hand and arm torque so less stress arm and shoulder fatigue for the rider. I've been selling bikes for years and riders not getting any younger. The migration to adventure bikes apparent. As another comment says here as fast as the new propel is those 65mm wheels like riding on marbles at 120 psi. Harsh and stiff. Thankfully we've started moving away from the uber stiff obsession of 16/17. The F8 dogma was a plank on wheels. Look around your cycling groups. We've all been at it for years. The golfers went back to the club house. Comfort is everything now....
The biggest fact, road bikes are not comfortable. I would a Sirrus 2.0 any day.
I agree I just got my first road bike! Did 150 km in one day on it and only had slight mild pain on the neck
@@Lolimaster depends on what each rider calls comfort. 21 year old Pro riders weighing 9 stone feel different to a 50 year old guy weighing 14 stone 👍
Hear what you’re saying bu as a 20 year old keen rider, I’d disagree. A whole bunch of my friends have gotten into cycling post COVID lockdown
I think comfort isn’t a result of an aging market, I believe it’s more attributed to crumbling infrastructure, the roads are getting worse and worse
The bumblebee has made its pick. You don't question the Bee! 😂😂😂
They are taking about a super Six Evo being “antique” while I’m over here still riding a bike with a 1” head tube
I just wanted to mention that my own high end road bike that I built back in 2005, I already had a compact crankset (a 50/34). Maybe this came more known to tmy market before others due to the fact I live in very hilly terrain. I understand based on one's zipcode, you may find various items being offered that might be so popular or as well known elsewhere based on target marketing. The other comment I have is that the several people I know personally in various high level positions of professional cycling all have the same opinion about disc brakes. They all without exception are not in favor of the disc brakes. They range from pro team mechanics for grand tours all the way to the national champion rider in his home country. They all prefer rim braking systems. The National Champion I know even claimed they (the riders on his team) ride them because they have to, and are being forced to do so by the manufacturers. He also said that every team mate of his feels the same as he does and prefers rim brakes as well. The only guess is, that the disc brake bikes must ultimately be generating more profits.
Really good video. I'm just toying with buying or spending £1k on a second hand immaculate evo or a spending double on a new cannondale.
Would rather have the SuperSix Evo.
Hi Dave. Liked the video. Noticed on one of shots tyres on Tcr are now Hutchinson Fusion, 28mm I think. How do they play with hookless rims and any noticeable difference to gavia 25mm tyres. When will there be a decent all round road tubeless tan wall 28mm tyre available , not a lightweight Schwalbe tt tyre which seems to be only option. Would look great on the Giant. Cheers
Thanks niranlh. The Fusion tyres inflated very easily with a track pump into the hookless rims and I've got them at 70psi. They give a bit of extra smoothness over the 25mm tyres. There are lots of good 28mm tubeless tyres now (I'm testing some for a magazine atm) but options are more limited for tan wall
The SS Evo is the higher caliber bike no doubt, even though older, while the giant mid-level benefits from some newer tech. I have an older 2008 Six13 DA and a more recent 2016 Supersix ultegra level, which is more comfortable on longer rides, but the Six13 lighter and stiffer is faster on climbs for me. Different bikes, different strengths, different prices if new. I'd like to see same caliber comparison of this top 2011 SS Evo and the new equivalent 2020 SS Evo disc, for a better test of time comparison.
I had a 2013 cannondale supersix 105 and just recently bought a 2021 giant revolt advance 2 because I'm getting too old to be riding those thin tires. Boy, do I miss innertubes
Nice comparison, but just want to point out about rim brake stopping power on carbon wheels. Not sure what those wheels are, but stopping power on modern carbon rims that have textured brake tracks are a MAJOR improvement over older style carbon wheels and you can easily lock up the wheels very quickly. Unless you have a specific use case or preference, the lighter weight of rim brakes and ease of maintenance makes more sense for an experienced enthusiast.
As a relatively new rider, I’d never consider a bike with rim brakes these days. The area I live in is mountainous, and I’ve had too many close calls with rim brakes when descending towards a T-junction at the bottom of a -13% gradient. The discs on my Emonda SLR have been game changing for me.
Good video, very pertinent to me as a I look at my Planet X SL. My winter/commuter gets more miles as it has clearance for bigger tyre and discs even though it's technically a very much poorer spec. Anyway, why not try to get hold of a 2000ish bike and even a 1990ish bike. I've a Concorde Squadra and there is definitely a difference, going for downtube non indexed shifters will take you back.
Great Comparison video!!! Think I’d stick to the cannondale 😀 cable untidyness on Gaint would wreck my head!!! I’m in the process of selling my 8 year old bike for a new but finding it hard to get all I want even with a decent budget.......😢 but feel I also need a new bike to livein up my cycles😏
Excellent comparison review I enjoyed that ,,I do prefer disc brakes myself to be honest
10 Years of progress, and all that can be said are Disk brakes... disc brakes... disc brakes.
I think I’ll hold on to my rim brake road bike for a couple more years 😉
I can only justify disc brakes on high end ultra light carbon rims bombed down the Alpe d'Huez by a 200lbs cyclist. Purely for safety reasons.
What's so wrong about disc-brakes.
Literally everywhere were disc brakes are mentioned, people like you come around the corner and hate on them.
Feel free to buy a bike with rim brakes, there are plenty models around. In every single price range.
@@user-ix6qe3ds3w mad because their 10k bike is losing value more rapidly
@@jaspa99 Is that all you can say because there aren't any arguements AGAINST disc brakes?
Also none of my bikes cost me more than 3k.
@@user-ix6qe3ds3w There are few arguments for disc brakes and many arguments against.
Post mount rim brakes are stellar!
However, I still believe its a better idea to run disc if you're going to run carbon wheels. Sure the special brake pads work, and work even better with the additional power w/ post mounts, but it is wearing on the sidewall over time...Not even a thing w/ discs, and you still enjoy even superior braking and control.
The other side of it is the additional tire clearance for bigger rubber and wider rims. Sure it may not be an issue or a desire for some, but I sure as heck value being able to load up 32c tires (running 28c normal) for even better grip and control here in Belgium over bad roads and cobbles.
Also, weight wasn't the only thing in 2011 (in the event every has forgotten)....it was 2009 then 2010/11 when Cervelo introduced the Soloist, and then the S2/S3. That was the beginning of the big "aero" push and by 2015 most of the top brands had an aero frame in their lineup.
I have my 2011 Cervelo S2 Red that I love riding, but I am not any slower on my 2020 Bianchi Sprint Disc Ultegra (that went on a huge diet). The main reason is 23c tires vs 28 Conti 5000 tubeless and 46mm aero wheels. Everywhere that would slow the Cervelo is where I would maintain speed on the Bianchi. Its only directly into a headwind or a steep climb that I might see a difference, but both bikes are within .5kg of each other that more times than not, given the road surface..I'm faster and more comfortable and faster on the bigger rubber....and even more so when the road turns to dirt.
Will they be letting you test a 2021 Defy Adv Pro 1 Disc? My 2017 TCR got written off in a car crash and I need to order a new bike. But I'm 6'6", 18st and was tempted to move to the comfier Defy! However you did say in your previous video that the TCR is quite a lot more comfortable this year.
I hope so, just as soon as they have new stock in because they're completely sold out at the moment! I've been really impressed with the comfort of the TCR but the Defy will certainly be smoother yet
@@davidarthur I would actually be really interested know if there actually noticeable differences in the frame/ carbon quality between the Adv & Pro (TCR or Defy)? I created a post on Reddit to ask this but nobody had ridden both of the frames to differentiate them. Presumably the pro is lighter. However I didn't find the TCR Adv was particularly heavy ..also in XL frame size I wonder if all of the advertised features of the bikes are actually as noticeable given the additional size and weight. plus the presumed heavier weight of the rider on an XL
I started riding seriously in '83, and was a Cat 2 road and Expert mountain racer. I no longer race and just ride for fitness and solace. I despise noisy systems on any bike! On several occasions over the years, I have battled brake squeal on wet morning single track rides.
My current favorite bike is a utility infielder 20 lb Diamondback Haanzo Comp with a humble 105 groupset and mechanical TRP Spyre discs. I still love getting out on my 2014 S-Works SL4 Tarmac. I, just this week, installed a 50/34 compact Dura Ace crankset on the SL4. The 54/39 is, sadly and admittedly, too much for this old man.
Like a chemical face peel and lip injections on an aging super model, installing a compact crankset and Reynolds blue brake pads on your SuperSix could erase some of the years...
Cannondale s6evo during 2011-2014 looked the best. That white green and blue color wave was incredible in 2013.
My Caad 10 `14 has the Liquigas colors, and my last gen Evo is so understated that you can barely make out the Cannondale branding :P
I am riding a road bike with Discs and tubeless but also I have an older bike with rim brakes. While when cruising on relatively flat and smooth roads (if you can find smooth) the difference are marginal to none. However add rough surface, wet conditions or fast downhill sections and the confidence you have on discs can make a lot of difference. Coming down the Pyrenees last October in a group anybody with discs even at dry conditions was well ahead and when it became wet the confidence level on the colleagues with rim brakes was miles behind the rest with discs. So it depends on conditions and style of riding.. Cruise slowly on flat dry roads.... then rims are good enough... Too many times I have been told that I can go faster on downhill or wet sections or stop later because I have disc .......
I ordered a Rose Pro SL with full 105 Specs as my first road bike. I still have to wait 2 Months until i get it.
Yesterday i bought a used Roadbike from the brand "Haibike" with a full Sora group, it only costed 100$. I can't believe how good it is. I think its at least 15- 20years old, but the shifting and handling is AMAZING. The only downside are the Sora Rim Breaks, probably just because they are old (or not properly adjusted), but they still do their job.
If the Rose Bike doesn't feel better i will return it and ride the Haibike :D
Just my 2 cents.
What brand is your hoodie Dave ? Thanks :)
It’s a Haglofs top 👍
End of the day one still has to pedal a bike and I'm still ridding my BMC Teammachine SLOR1 2014 the very same bike that Cadel Evans rode. So, if it was good enough for him, then its more than good enough for me to ride.
Gave up all that for a gravel bike! Less flats , more options and very comfortable.
I think the main reason manufacturers are not offering rim brakes, with mountain bikes and gravel bikes are 100% disc brakes, for simplifying the manufacturing process, parts and costs and makes sense for them to utilise one braking system on all their bikes they make. Increasing costs and efficiency to the manufacturer.
EVO and rim brakes.
Keep your noisy discs. I have never run out of brakes, alpine descents, rainy shitty commutes, never had trouble with them in any of my travels.
EVO is also plenty comfortable over 3500 km in 22 days, including cobbles and alps and pyrenees.
I'll be sticking with my three versions of the supersix thanks.
Someone said the tcr is boring, i agree, just another clone.
Oh, discs are selling cos the industry is pushing them..... hard.
Informative review. As an MTBer, I know that disc brakes can be noisy, not stop in time when on tough, wet and muddy terrain. Even so, better than rim brakes for sure. I'm currently looking to buy a used road bike, which is why this review was of interest. Given all of the relatively 'minor' developments (internal cabling was around in the mid 90's) I really wonder if there is that much of a difference in the actual performance that justifies the price tag of new high road bikes these days.
Perfect summary. I own a top-spec 2010 Felt F1 Dura-Ace and recently purchased a 2020 Orbea OMX Ultegra Di2. Both are stiff. Both handle great. The older bike is marginally lighter.
Even though the Felt has dropped seat stays (in 2010!) and 25mm tubeless rubber, the Orbea saddle feel (on 28mm tubeless) is MUCH more supple. Looking at the design, it’s clear that in 2010, designers added material to keep the seat post stiff. Oops.
The newer Orbea has larger diameter tubes and a bigger bottom bracket for a stiffer platform. I’m not strong enough to feel it under power, but the bike is more confidence-inspiring on fast, twisty descents. The 2010 bike was twitchy in comparison.
Also, I’ve gone from mechanical to electronic shifting. What a joy! I went electronic to avoid cable-binding in the integrated stem and top tube. Love it.
But yes, it’s the discs that make the biggest difference. The old bike nearly killed me in the rain once. I should never have put carbon rims on it. And on my local steep descents, I have no idea when I might melt the rims. So I have no confidence on the older bike going downhill fast. I hated the experience. Sure, the old bike is fine on flattish dry roads, but living in steep terrain with variable weather, I’m MUCH happier on discs.
Finally, aero... the Orbea OMX has hidden cables and truncated tubes. It also has wide, bowed forks with very deep sections. It’s definitely more aero. But to be honest, it’s hard to notice it. Am I going a fraction of a mile per hour faster at the same power? Am I saving five watts keeping up with my buddy? Who knows? I run 50mm wheels and the main place where I experience “aero” is with crosswinds, which isn’t a great feeling. So I guess it’s good to know that your bike is aero, and it’s good for PBs on Strava, but it’s not something that you really experience during a ride.
Anyway, increased comfort, electronic shifting, and confident, predictable braking all improve the experience. Aero is the cherry on top.
But if you race dry, flat crits on a budget, don’t hesitate to buy the older, high-end, carbon bike. Rim brakes are fine for that, you’re not racing for comfort, and you’re just giving up a touch of aero while saving thousands of dollars.
Riding in the wet or on steep descents? Want the best riding experience? Want an aero edge? Want effortless, instantaneous shifting? Want less fatigue in the saddle? (And have a solid budget?) The newer bikes rock.
And PLEASE don’t shame people for liking one or the other. Neither sucks. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
Riding a 2008 model myself and can agree to everything above - except I'm happy with my rim brakes on newer carbon wheels myself. Would love to see disc in front and rim at the back. The ideal combo imho.
hey dave, what brand is your casual top? its a nice cut
It's a Haglofs top
As a bike mechanic I find road disc brakes infuriating but you can never take away the massive increase in stopping performance (when they don't rub, squeal and fade on very steep mountain roads)
I don't think you mention the move from 10 to 11 speed on bikes. Do you think that has any significant impact on your riding?
Does the aerodynamics of the bike matter when someone like me rides it, with a body that is not configured for low drag
Rider makes about 70-80% of aerodynamic drag when in an aerodynamic position. If you have bad positioning, the proportion becomes even bigger.
What size was that TCR?
AFAIK that sram red 10 group is still also the lightest groupset ever made.. definitely one of the lightest
Can you compare the time difference between these bike's ?
Interesting to see that nobody even David himself made a price comparison of the two bikes? What the Evo was worth brand new (10 years ago) vs. what it is worth now (approximately second hand) vs the new 2020 TCR sticker price that it is compared to!?
What is the original cost comparison between both bikes? Maybe 3 or 4 to 1? Rim brakes are so easy and cheap to self-service - a big plus.
TCR, if i could get one! Bought a frame only in the duel colour and had planned to build it up but sadly it had a fault.