FDR - Air France stalling an A330 (Air France 447)
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
- The pilots unfortunately were confused and the aircraft didn't help any. As AOA increases past 40 degrees the stall warnings are inhibited.
Additionally: Airbus crews are taught to use FPV for ADR disagreement until they can sort out which ADR is faulty. However when the aircraft stalls the "bird" sinks below the horizon, potentially tricking pilots to pull full back to raise the "bird" to the horizon, further destabilizing the aircraft and deepening the stall.
For anyone just blaming the pilot, even though Bonin's actions are clearly the primary cause of the accident, the situation is more complex than "they are pulling up while the stall warning is sounding".
They are flying one of the most technologically advanced aircraft in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, during a dark night (for our body it's normal to feel more tired in these hours, especially on a long flight) and in the middle of a thunderstorm with consequent turbulence.
Suddenly the autopilot disconnects and they were totally caught off guard by that. Considering the environment they were already in, it is pretty normal that the stress increased extremely fast when they had to take manual controls with incorrect speed data while a series of warnings and ECAM messages came out in a bunch of seconds. Furthermore, that was almost certainly the first time for them all to manually control a real aircraft at that altitude, but also the training of a similar situation in a simulator was absolutely poor at the time.
When Bonin took control of the plane, he noticed on the PFD that the aircraft started rolling to the right due to the turbulence but also that it dropped 300 feet of altitude (that was actually apparent and caused by the computer recalculation after the loss of speed data from the pitot tubes). I think that led Bonin to start pulling back for the first time (I don't know why nobody talks about it) and I find it completely understandable.
The problem is that because of his inexperience in that kind of situation, the huge workload accumulated in just a few seconds and the fact that he probably didn't realise that the system switched to Alternate Law (Robert barely mentioned it while reading the ECAM messages but 18 seconds after the start of the events) making the controls way more sensitive, Bonin started overcorrecting in both vertical and horizontal directions (you can see between 0:12 and 0:22 how fast the vertical speed increased at that altitude and in that condition).
Then the panic did the rest. Both pilots failed to recognize the problem and they lost their situational awareness and composure very soon. When the stall warning sounded briefly for the first time due to Bonin's dangerous input (0:11, only 6 seconds after the AP disconnection, this to show how fast everything happened) and continuously (0:52) when the AoA reached a high value (but unfortunately right after the vertical speed almost became normal again), Robert who couldn't see the stick of his colleague supposed that the stall warning was unreliable as the speed was, while Bonin's mind was working too poorly at this point to understand that his inputs would have led to an inevitable stall. Perhaps it's also possible that none of them could actually hear the warning because of the extreme stress in their brain.
Now the natural question would be: "but why did Bonin keep pulling up even after recovering those apparent 300 feet by far and actually did so for almost the entire remaining minutes of the flight?". Again, the panic and the total confusion that developed in that cockpit would already explain a lot, but there are three other possible factors:
- Noticing that moving the engine throttles didn't produce any effect to solve the situation (we know that it actually worsened it), Bonin unconsciously tried to follow the Flight Director that reappeared on the screen (it engaged at +6000 V/S in order to maintain the vertical speed at the moment it was disappeared), believing that could have helped escaping the situation (0:52-1:40)
- In that stressful situation, Bonin would have followed the maneuver learned during his training to recover the plane from falling without considering the fact that they were in Alternate Law (and in a fully developed stall): TOGA + max climb input (he mentions several times that they are in TOGA).
- Then, because of the aerodynamic effects at that extreme attitude of the plane, Bonin's senses made him think that they were actually in an overspeed situation, so the most logic thing was keep climbing in order to slow down the aircraft. This seems absurd considering the fact that he kept pulling back all the time before, but as I said his brain was already totally overwhelmed and impossible to control.
For some reasons Robert never really took controls (he said "commands on the left" at 1:38 but he actually never did it, so Bonin got the priority back almost immediately), probably due to the fact that he was also taken by surprise by the incredibly fast chain of events, and still we don't know if he could have saved the aircraft anyway. Also, the "dual input" philosophy didn't help at all.
I think that at 1:45 they are sadly already doomed: the Angle of Attack exceeded the 40° limit, so the stall warning stops when they pitch up over that angle (as the system considers it unreliable, same thing with the speed which becomes invalid again, even if the pitot tubes are not frozen anymore) and sounds again when they try to pitch down, making even harder to figure out what was happening. When the captain comes back to the cockpit it's almost impossible for him to understand the situation in a short time and when he does (3:40), it's way too late. Considering their vertical speed they would have probably needed at least 15000 feet to recover completely from the stall with the stabilizer in the max nose up position.
Great comment! Probably the best one yet, that summarizes everything I've said prior. I'll see if I can figure out how to pin it to the top.
Bro write a S.A
this comment definitely deserves way more likes
The most confusing bit is that he pulled up and the stall warning stopped. He pushed down and the stall warning is triggered again. Way too counter-intuitive in that situation. Unfortunately, the pitot tube was giving reliable not long after it froze up, but obviously none of them would trust the airspeed.
legend
We have forgot the basics. Stall recovery is to reduce pitch
Don't confused AoA with pitch attitude angle! Don't get me wrong, but this is a major and deadly confusion that people often make.
If you're upside down for example and your AoA is positive and way above stall yet your pitch attitude is also positive, what will you do? Pull the stick to reduce pitch angle?
You can be way past the stall AoAs at any pitch (positive or negative) or bank angles.
AoA and beta angles are relative to aerodynamics, pitch, roll and yaw angles are relative to earth.
Maverick Su-35S in addition to that: it depends which way you have broken the airflow. If you are inverted and push too hard, the airplane will stall and not make any stall warnings. The proper recovery would then be to actually pull up to re-establish smooth airflow. This is basic aerobatics and I think that could have helped these guys.
Correct, the stall management warning system of all airliners most definitely don't take into account the negative critical AoA, only the positive, but even so..., over the years, pilots have completely forgotten the aerodynamic symptoms of stall and how a plane responds to pitch, roll and yawing inputs when the wings are close to stall and way above stall. The WW1 and WW2 airplanes never had any stall warning, maybe not even an airspeed indication. How did they manage to fly in and out of stalls (cause of course, many have happened) then land safely? They learned and knew how to fly.
suddenly we're all pilot experts. (the whole comment section)
@@zorls well... Most of us being Airbus and Boeing pilots.....so...
A330: *STALL STALL*
Pilot: Hum, I'm will up the airplane nose
No, it was like 2am so they couldn't see what was happening, they entered big clouds (cumulonimbus). When they entered it, there were gravels, it caused to hit Pitot probes which gave false informations to the pilots. The normal reaction when you see the altimeter going down is to pull up the nose. They probably didn't feel the stall and that caused the plane to crash in the ocean 15mn after the problem.
@@zenoxxok7161 No.. if you have a PITOT failure.. your plane has the STALL warning and you are LOSING altitude when you've your nose UP.. you're in a stall. It doesn't matter if you can't look outside.. you've the Artificial Horizons.. they kept the nose up 10 or 15 degrees all the time....
@Cortos De Shibe 2011 no u
@Cortos De Shibe 2011 ever heard of dark humor?
@@thunderboltfireplane nda bisa basa enggres
What was very confusing for the FO is that by pitching UP, the stall warning disappeared (because the speed info was not valid for the flight computer).
But when he pitched DOWN, the stall warning reappeared because the speed info was valid again.
So it was counter-intuitive and probably influenced the wrong choices of the FO.
It's a bit too easy to blame Bonin when you see the whole situation unstressed in your couch. The situation was much more complex.
I get your point, but a pilot should know that pulling up NEVER gets you out of a stall and pulling down NEVER gets you into a stall.
Thats only partly correct. The speed info was unrelated to the stall warning. After having pitched up beyond 20-30deg, the flight computer rejected all further AoA data as invalid because no plane should have been generating such an AoA to begin with. If the fool bonin hadnt kept pulling up when the stall warning sounded for the first time, then it wouldnt have happened.
The pilot flying was totally panicking
and forgot the basics of aerodynamics.
R.I.P.
He didn’t forget.
@@peteconrad2077 well he didn't forget it because he never knew what aerodynamics is in the first place
@@alexthegreat5009 of course he did. You can’t get a licence without it. He was in a well documented physiological reaction which stopped his brain from applying trained or rational behaviour. His knowledge of aerodynamic and stall recovery were not the issue.
It’s only know nothings without any understanding who come on here with such gibberish.
@@peteconrad2077 heard of sarcasm? And i am actively flying gliders so i know what i talking about
@@alexthegreat5009 I think you need to go and have a little check in what sarcasm means. If you’re a glider pilot then this powered pilot reckons you should know better.
If the stall warning rings out 58 times it might be a good idea to consider whether in fact you might be in a stall. Air France 447 didn't bother doing this, since none of them mentioned the word stall themselves.
I honesty don't think that David and Pierre understood what a stall is.
@@Fray2221 They must have known about it theoretically speaking, but just didn't believe it was actually happening on this flight.
Expectation bias is powerful. And so is the startle and disorientation effect.
The PNF notice it thats why he try to put the nose down but re-gave the command to Bonin because he think that Bonin was doing it too but no ,he just put the nose up and increase the stall...
even the stall alarn has the word "stall" in it. dont know how they didnt know they were in a stall
Man seeing that positive attitude as the stall alarm is blaring the whole time just hurts man...
Obviously we'll never know for sure, but it seams to me that from about 1:00 through 1:44 the PF is trying to chase the Flight Director, perhaps he thought that Airbus' automation would guide him out of the stall. Again this is pure conjecture, but it might give somewhat of an explanation into what happened during part of the accident sequence.
Francisco Maldonado Still, that is absolutely not protocol for a stall. Very unfortunately, FO Bonin fucked up so bad he crashed the aircraft. If he had never pulled back on the stick, everything would have been normal.
That is absolutely what he was doing which i believe if the system recognized it and shut off the autopilot it should have automatically shut down the f/d also
louis hunter But why would he follow the FD during a stall?? Please, I have to know
Alexander Strellow a combination of The PF did not trust the instruments and his low time and low time hand flying. Hand flying that aircraft without automation makes any input very sensitive on that particular aircraft. But who I blame is the PNF for not calling out “My aircraft” at least he wouldn’t of kept pulling back
louis hunter Both are to blame, but the PF did not act accordingly to correct a stall. If he didn’t trust the instruments, why would he follow the F/D?
No one can replace themselves in the pilot and co pilot's seat, but as a pilot watching this, its really horrific to see that the whole time, the stick input has been pitch up.
The dual-input philosophy worsens the problem, as we can see the PNF trying to pitch down in the later seconds of this video, but since it was a dual input, both PNF and PF inputs are cancelled out, giving out Pitch Up attitude still as PF's stick was pulled way back
As someone who does not have any expertise in this field whatsoever and is not familiar with the terms you just used: What exactly happened here? I can read out the basic data and look at the model and with my basic understanding of physics guess that the pilot should have put the nose down as long as they had enough altitude to gain speed and get out of stall. Yet for some reason they did not? I take it they got faulty readings from some their instruments (regarding their velocity) in bad visual conditions. But wouldnt rapid altitude loss in combination with a stall warning (which as far as i understand it is data from 2 different and independent sets of sensors) be a clear indication that something was wrong with your air speed?
nvm just read into it
Vishesh Raj Srivastava The Right co pilot was a total disaster even after Been told not to pull back and give control to other co pilot he still Pulls back and last sec he took priority without saying and again put them back in the stall 😡😡
@@mariogotze1121And the captain was there since 2:11:42 and said almost nothing. It's incredible that they did not relate the sudden speed reduction with the " Vol avec IAS Douteuse" (wrong IAS) procedure. It is interesting to read the pilots comments on this flight accident.
Yes but they were so confused they did not believe what their instruments were telling them until it was too late. Bonin who was the one flying the plane thought they were overspend at one point. The reason the stall warning first went off was because of the faulty pito tubes gave a false reading of very low speed then they did not match one said 220 the other 100 knots slower. They got confused and it snowballed from there.
i like this stall sound
sounds good but has a deadly meaning :D
Alian Haidar what does it mean
It means that the plane will soon end its life within seconds if the sound won't stop XD
No it mean's the airflow has broke so the plane is falling from the sky
Sweet Potatoe Basically theres not airflow so the plane has no lift, Newton hates planes and he made physics that make the plane fall out of the skies with too much (Sink Rate).
Wait Air France is calling me
Stall stall
It cant be them they can only use a phone as much as they can fly a plane
I simply cannot believe this guy had 2900+ flight hours ...
How many of these were autopilot hours?
Yea, flying isn't flying anymore. They're taught how to "fly" (work the autopilot) Airbus aircraft and are allowed to forget basic principles of flight.
All of them.
Just another idiot who got into a big plane with 0 experience when he was 20
@@SimplySpace
"Your blaming the fish?" -Gordon Ramsey
All pilots should have to fly on manual for a certain amount of time to keep them practised in manual flying.
It may be extremely obvious to you, sitting in your bed or whatever completely calm, with nothing else to worry about. These pilots were under an absurd amount of stress, since this situation happened so suddenly and quickly.
Another thing is that in normal law, max climb performance is given by applying TOGA thrust and continuous max back pressure on the stick. The aircraft usually would not allow it to stall, so max back pressure will cause the plane to pitch to achieve close to its maximum AOA, giving the best possible climb performance. And when you're stressed, you revert to your instincts, which is likely what the FO was doing. But of course, that instinct was built in normal law, this plane was in alternate law.
Agreed! Also worth noting is AF was training pilots to select "track/FPA" and to then were told to put the bird on the horizon. He may have been attempting to do exactly this, and as he pulled, the stall deepened, and he pulled more. That's another possibility of why he was doing this. Unfortunately we cannot question the deceased to find out what they were thinking. I'm with you, the stress and turbulence alone would fluster a lot of pilots who are new (he only had about 1500TT).
Thanks for the comment. I love Butters too lol
@@TheProPilotI did not expect a comment on my handle on this video lol.
The stall recovery training is one of the most basic training for every airliner pilot.
The pilots should be prepared for this unreliable airspeed scenario, instead of freaking out and acts like a bunch of donkies. The FO pulled back on the stick the entire time with the stall warning is simply retarded.
i think 35049 feet up in the air is enough to recover from a stall
Yes I agree... Unless you miss step one: identify the stall
So that you can do step 2: recover
@@TheProPilotbro didn't put Kerosene music
@@WanWan-H this video was old lol kerosene wasnt popular back then 🤓
Dual input alert is a joke. Almost useless. Probably ingored by the pilots.
Imo the alert should be treated as serious as a stall warning with the master warning and audio message "Sidestick Conflict! set priority!" (Or similar wording)
This would at least force the pilots to attempt some sort of CRM by at least discussing who has priority.
Airbus please stop averaging out the controls and have them linked so both pilots can feel the others inputs..
Also if both priority bottons are pressed at the same time a master warning is needed and a conflict audio warning similar to above instead of giving priority to who pressed it last!!! Wtf.. !!? (At least this applies to the a320)
Just crazy design decisions by Airbus with these Sidesticks...
What's worse is it isn't averaged - it's combined! So if both pull back half way, 1/2 + 1/2 = full back!!!
@@TheProPilot Can you do another sim with the same parameters of flight 447 and then show recovery at various heights? 20,000ft? and also see if it recovers from 10,000 ft? If indeed it was recoverable? Some ex Naval test pilot appears in a video stating that the plane was in deep stall and unrecoverable by pitching down, it would not have worked. The plane would have needed to bank and roll like a fighter jet but the forces involved would have ripped it apart and not enough altitude e.t.c
Also the dual input alert is cancelled anytime a higher priority warning like stall or GPWS warning sounds. The alarm is worthless by then. It didn't sound on Air Asia 8501 once the stall warning was sounding. It would have been much better to have a stick vibrator for dual input. The fact the sidesticks are not linked along, dual input warnings that get cancelled by higher priority warnings, no force artificial flight control force feedback, autotrim in alternate law with no protections, making it easy for the pilot to stall the aircraft with no energy state cues and maintaining nose up flight path like with AF447 and Air Asia 8501, no autopilot feedback and non moving thrust levers is enough for me to prefer Boeing. Boeing got linked controls, fly like a conventional aircraft with great feedback of it's controls.
The fact that the pilot flying was getting stall warnings and he thought the best course of action was to either have priority right and dual input blaring out as well while fully pulling back on the stick and keeping the engines at idle makes me believe he had a forged professional pilots license and he just had used autopilot for like his entire career
Priority right and duel input are not one singular pilots fault. Duel input means means both side sticks are moving and priority right means the copilot was disconnecting the left stick for about 30 seconds. He pulled back on the stick because he was panicking, he froze, he was not well trained on how to notice when you’re panicking. He was a well trained pilot with a good history, his brain just froze when he went from a smooth flight to descending and banking right, then he over corrected and began panicking until he stalled the aircraft
Could you imagine being a passenger on that plane that particular evening?
Most of them died from trauma before it smashed into the water.
@@pilotgaming5383 Wrong. They died at water impact.
@@pilotgaming5383 Not true at all. Everyone was crushed like a pancake on impact. The aircraft “belly flopped” on impact, collapsing on itself.
They all probaboy died at sleep
@@user-vg5xh5id3lat least they didn’t suffer, do you think they knew the plane was falling?
This accident keeps haunting me. And the part that haunts me the most is how the hell AIR FRANCE can put such people behind the sticks of a large commercial airliner. Especially Bonin but even the other fellow. They sound and act like total amateurs. Could as well be random passagers placed in the cockpit. Just as clueless and unprepared. My confidence in Air France totally evaporated after this.
Agreed, 100%
You obviously don’t understand what went on.
That's why STALL warnings are the scariest
David Robert avait l'air d'un bon pilote malgré le niveau de l'autre pilote. Il lui donnait de bons ordres, même s'ils n'étaient pas respectés.
@@olivier6628 Oui, je pense aussi.
drôle personne ne parle beaucoup de lui ou s'il avait de la famille
Turning off flight director and auto thrust, crosscheck with other instruments while flying a 2.5 degrees up pitch at climb thrust(or I would say around 12:30 o clock EPR depending on GW) until you get out of thunderstorm and the PNF runs through the QRH would have saved the day… :( RIP
Agreed. And always respect stall warnings especially when airspeed indications have gone haywire.
So sad...they almost had it recovered and the dual input is what doomed them.
Guess it's what happens when airlines forget that operating an aircraft involves flying. The industry has adjusted since then.
Air France managed to crash a lot of the safest planes
in the sixties...@@alexthegreat5009
As a pilot I don't get how they did this. I was yelling at my laptop to get that AOA down.
Panic. Picture this, you have just been woken up at buttfuck in the morning, you have been given the responsibility to fly an A330, and about 5 minutes later you go from cruising to having 5 alarms blaring at you and you have to correct your aircraft. He over corrected and it led to a stall, his brain froze and he was unable to recover. Airfrance should’ve had better training in place for high stress situations.
Just nosedive until the AOA reduces
I wonder how the pilot did not realize that the plane was really stalled because each command he gave the plane took a long time to respond, that is to say he had low aerodynamic speed, this soon is associated with a low speed, I don't know, it is difficult to understand because neither the throttles of power he moved left all the time to march slowly
The 2 PNF notice that the plane was stalling and want to put the nose down to recovery from it and thinking that the copilot was doing it but he wasn't and it goes to crash
The stabilizer has moved all the way to the nose-up position, and no one seems to have noticed. There was no attempt to move it nose down.
I think the confusion in the cockpit is very apparent! I noticed this as well. It's part of what allowed the AOA to go so high that it went outside of the valid range.
STALL warnings are the scariest ever
Pull up is more scary.
@@ajs41 no
This whole thing was shocking. If you read the CVR transcripts Captain Dubois was totally disengaged, making stupid mistakes, clearly didn't care too much and was basically phoning it in. Although the BEA didn't release the whole transcript officially, other outlets got hold of it - he was reading magazines in the cockpit, banter with the flight attendants (including turning down the heating in the cargo hold because someone had bought a load of meat), listening to music over dinner etc.
Having only slept for one hour the night before, he then goes off to bed at a critical and highly dangerous stage of the flight (a storm which other flights had circled round and avoided) and possibly had his mistress (an off duty Air France cabin crew member) in the crew compartment with him. If he'd been on the flight deck when the AP disconnected, someone of his experience would have known precisely what to do and been able to immediately tell Bonin what _not_ to do. Everything would have been fine.
The pitot tubes have constant inbuilt heating and were only frozen up for about a minute. The really sad and ironic thing is that F-GZCP was on its final flight before briefly going out of service to have upgraded pitot tubes fitted - Airbus were aware of issues, had issued an advisory and had new parts ready to go. Air France had them in stock.
It's interesting for me that the A330 got into a "deep stall", deep stalls are very rare in my knowledge, and I think that like most of the deep stalls happen to military aircraft instead of civilian aircrafts. It is very strange to get into a deep stall and not just a normal stall.
You should do more videos like this, with your experienced interpretation!
These are just FDR recreations from the investigators. I can't do anything but upload them.
You know I finally read this again and understood what you meant. Yes I would love to do an in depth review of this entire event from start to finish.
Check this out: it happened again. 😪
czcams.com/video/E5zPAdGRyr8/video.html
anyone can easily judge the copilot's actions that lead to the accident, but when you are tired, in a dark cockpit during a heavy turbulence over the Atlantic, and with your pitot tubes frozen while the stall warning pounds, it's a little tricky to try to deal with the situation as you should. And also, the basic wing stall turbulence could be misunderstood with the turbulence they were facing. When you see yourself leading a cockpit like this, you can have a hard time seeing yourself with the enough authority, other words, you panic. You can blame the first officer for the crash, but not for his human side.
Matheus Magno no one is blaming anyone. This is a factual conversation only. No one is placing "blame" instead what he FAILED to do: he failed to properly recognize and perform a stall recovery. [/thread]
Matheus Magno Also the relief Pilot failed to recognize and properly identify a situation where a takeover of controls must be done. if my FO starts losing the aircraft I am taking over even if there's nothing more I can do than the FO was already doing, I have to try my best to recover the situation that's as bad as this was. and I CAN tell you with certainty that I would have had an ugly recovery myself, but I would have stopped this madness. The captain who went to the back to sleep should have waited 15 minutes longer for his nap instead of attempting to nap in that storm. I wouldn't be able to sleep anyways so might as well have given the aircraft over after passing the weather. I don't even take restroom breaks when approaching weather because of this crash.
When the captain finally returned he saw what was happening and said "no no no" when the FO said that he had been holding the stick full back the entire time..... I'm sorry. the whole thing is a tragedy.
the thing about tragedies is that all of the circumstances around them are sad and make us wonder how it could happen. So this whole thing is for learning how to avoid it ourselves.
Sorry if this was part of the answer but to me and some other people, it seems like there was no cockpit coordination between the crew.
Jansel Kenneth Tolentino That's a reasonable assertion.
If you're not a pilot or don't have the knowledge, then that's only what you believe...! You don't confuse atmospheric turbulence with wing stall effects! As long as you're a trained pilot you should always be able to distinguish them! Tiredness isn't a good excuse to not listen to the stall warning at all. Even of for a couple of seconds they would've tried to do what they must when they hear a stall warning, which is: reducing AoA, they would've got out of it without anyone noticing it, but they didn't, they just kept on pulling in a mindless manner! You first recognize a wing stall by feel (Z axis G-loads amplitude and frequency) and by using outside references (indeed they didn't have this one) or the ADI in case of a wing drop. The wing stall noise is also something pilots should train about.
this is the most unnecessary accident I've ever seen
IT IS
Ever heard of aeroflot 593
Very nice of you to put this together.
However I don't see how the nose can "sink below the horizon" when you're pulling 10 deg (and more) nose-up.
I believe the STALL warning gets inhibited when AIS goes below 60 knots.
The pilots had a memory item for UAS which they had to follow. Not only they didn't, they showed total lack of flying skills and poor CRM.
I don't follow what you're saying. At no point in this entire video does the nose go below 0°. This isn't something that I put together. This is the actual FDR and CVR overlay produced by the BEA. This is the actual real data. The FPV sank below the horizon because... Well... They were stalling. You can point the nose wherever you want to, but where the plane is going is where the FPV points. If you stall... You sink if you hold the stall long enough. Eventually gravity overtakes inertia and you're on your way to the surface.
Maybe rethink the comment and reply here. Happy to chat. But what happened here is exactly the physics and reality of what happened. Your comment conflicts itself. You said the nose shouldn't be able to sink below the horizon, but it never did. The flight path sank below the horizon. It was nearly vertical despite the pitch being well above 10° above the horizon. The AOA or Alpha was insane, 40 and 50° AOA were "achieved".
It's 80kts and 40° AOA that stall warnings are inhibited. That is the ground logic so that you don't get stall warnings from reverse thrust on landing. In the Learjet I used to fly: we would turn off the stall protection system as we slowed down for this very reason (it was part of the normal flow from Learjet).
who would win?
an engineering masterpiece piloted by very experienced pilots.
or
Basic aerodynamics.
None of them if the pilots are french
Every time the alert system said “stall” the video subtitles said “stay”
And beeps are apparently “don’t go”
Is this a game? A simulation? A simulation game? An SFM? It looks awesome.
No it is a real flight data recorder depiction of the actual flight data recovered from the accident aircraft.
@@TheProPilot Oh, thanks
This is why yokes (or other mechanically connected input systems) are better!
A yoke can't save a plane from bad piloting
@@doabarrellroll69 The plane isn't the problem, the guys on the flight deck are.
I cite the Amazon prime accident. The 757/767 yikes will split and disconnect/decouple. So even a yoke won't save you.
In Bonin's mind sadly he was convinced the plane was in overspeed. Its easy for us to sit back a lsay all blame on him.. There's a few important factors to consider.
1- time of the event being 2.00am is cicadia low meaning your natural reaction to logic are very impaired.
2- pitch black outside so no natural reference of horizon.
3- spatial disoriention leads to confirmation bias
4- equilibrium loss.
All these factors in his mind convinced him of overspeed. This is evident of thrust levers reduced to idle while plane had pitch attitude of 20% at times. After this tragedy, lot of airlines started training pilots in this type of scenario. You'd be surprised how many pilots reactions were the same. Till taught otherwise.
You know what is a good idea? Put an AOA display
AOA display, get rid of the dual input because how the fuck is that a good idea? And after watching this video, I'd also suggest either an indicator to represent the stick input (so everyone can easily see it) or the addition of force feedback in the disabled stick allowing you to feel what the person in control is giving for input.
Ya, just like Boeing, the CA and FO controls are connected. And yes, input indicator, why does it shows on the ground but gone when airborn?
What is AOA? It says its a korean band?
Angle of Attack also referred to as Alpha
@@SampsonGG It was one of the final recommendations of the BEA, to show directly the AoA
As a F/O of Airbus i know that this is Memory Item Called Unreliable Speed indication, And in this keys i see it not been followed. AP/FD/A-TH must be off but i see that FD's are on PFD's also because they are above fl100 and above thrust reduction altitude they must set 5D/Climb.
itestam the FDs were reengaged due to selecting TOGA.
TheProPilot I see there is a FDs before toga and why should it reengqge FDs in toga ith is not go-around procedure, it is in crz level i see
itestam doesn't matter. If you select TOGA the FDs will reengage. You are correct. they never did perform any of the Unreliable Airspeed procedures. The cruise crew didn't have much experience in the aircraft.
TheProPilot As i see because of FDs was not off there wer a strange thing going on the nose pitch goes up to 10d so, PF was trying to make nose pitch down controll, but as we know the high speed protection makes nose pitch up procedure, so if it tells STALL than in case if FDs are not off it would go to low speed protection, but i dont see it there, i see toga lock, and than unsuccesfull inputs on sidestick by PF.
itestam if you watch the stall warnings are inhibited beyond 40 degrees AOA. I can't honestly understand what you mean. just commenting.
Bro started with an engine stall then caused wing stall
This was so scaringly fast. They dropped like a fucking rock. Pilot monitoring also lost situational awareness. They don't realize right away that their speed is unreliable, we have the benefit of hindsight as well as plenty of time, not to mention we're not sitting in a giant metal tube 12km over solid ground.
That's just fucking scary. I noticed when the rate of climb started decreasing but sadly the pilot monitoring didn't take control.
Unfortunately neither pilot recognized what was happening until the end "I have been holding the stick full back the entire time!!!!" "What?! No no no!!!" Is in the CVR overlay at the end. That's when you start to see the other pilot try to recover, but without pressing the takeover pushbutton to lock the other pilot out.
i think the sidestick also had an impact on this accident.
Dudes at which speed did the plane crash? People usually be linear when reading, focusing at one problem at a time, when in fact, everything was happening at the same time: the darkness, the faulty readings, the storm, the turbulence...
over 10,000fpm to the ocean surface and approximately 140kts ground speed, 110 indicated airspeed.
@@TheProPilot It was a instantaneous death or a RELATIVE speed human can stand conscious?
yurieu the airbus hit the atlantic at speed of nearly 300 Km/h and descending about 10000 ft a minute which means Means Hard Brutal Impact that killed everyone on board in instant :/ Rip
Eveyone commenting down the nose shud be down..we should understand that in the face of an emergency no one knows how they will react. Also the night of the unfortunate incident, the horizon wasn’t visible as it was night and the sensors had failed before. I agree that the PF input were nose up all the time and it shouldn’t have been that way but no one had an idea of what was going on. We are commenting abt the nose up pitch and stall of the aircraft led to the accident and that the PF shudve just put the nose down. But if u didn’t know what was going on in the cockpit how would you react? Consider that fact that first you have to realise what is actually faulty and what’s going on. The sensors did come back online after some time but since they had failed before the pilots decided not to trust them. I’m not a pilot but it’s just my opinion. Feel free to tell me if I’m wrong or something.
Training helps 🤷♂️
Basic understanding of pitch + power = performance would help.
Basic understanding that climbing will reduce speed would help. Why full back? Why did Air Asia pilots do the same (also on my channel)? Why did Prime Air pilots fight at the controls just like these other two videos? The problem is a lack of a positive exchange of control and captain training to get startled and take over. I think we need that training, to be honest. There are so many good pilots out there, and a few bad ones who turn the AP on that we relax a bit too much and aren't in the mindset that the guy sitting next to us might unintentionally try to kill us all.
give me a break, full power and pitch more than 10°, he leaves 350 climbs to 370 with more than 4000 fpm, he is still pulling on the stick, not even fighting to get back to 350
Holy crap, they were a stone falling from the sky.
Roll, Pitch Down, Full Speed
Stall Recovery
Pitch down, roll, more engine. Keep the nose slightly down until having a stable flight.
So... push forward now. Now. Push forward... now. Ready... now. Push. Forward. Now.
Я не понимаю как пилоты буквально нечего ни делали, когда у них орала сигнализация stall (сваливание).
Если, что инструкция по выводу самолета из сваливания одинакова у всех.
1отдать ручку направления траектории полета до упора от себя.
2. Установить максимальный режим работы двигателей
3.Дожлаться набора минимальной скорости полета.
4.Плавно вывести самолет в гори зонтальный полет. Это все можно было сделать на этом самолете на любом этапе падения.
Also, they kept TOGA all the time; would have been good to reduce the thrust as we are on underwing mounted engines, on these, as soon as you increase thrust it gives a pitch up moment; this contributed to stay in stall condition I presume. Just discussing, thanks for sharing your opinion on my comment
Idle power, bank & cut through.
Kevin - That's not really necessary (the bank and let the nose slice through) even in this deep deep stall they were in. If they'd simply stopped pulling back on the stick it would've begun the exit of the stall. Idle power throughout the maneuver would've been nice for the VERY steep dive they were in (but pitched up). The flight path was 40° to the pitch, and higher, at times. This is a effectively a pancake dive. You can easily recover by letting go and recentering the trim that they'd run full nose up by holding it back. If they'd actually recovered from this stall at TOGA they'd have oversped it before leveling off from the heavy dive.
They got SUCH a nose high AOA that the FACs inhibited stall warnings - 40° AOA and less than 80kts IAS they are inhibited. It thinks the aircraft is getting reverse thrust airflow over the probes. So it's inhibited in that condition. That's why when they released the back pressure: the stall warning returned after being silent in a full deep stall. It's incredible, really, so have worked so hard to achieve such an undesired state.
Francois - yes the idle power would have helped, but even still wasn't all that necessary. The act of holding the stick full back for such a long time ran the auto trim to full nose up. This helped induce an AOA greater than 40° at an indicated airspeed less than 80kts. This causes stall warnings to be inhibited. When they let off the stick the new AOA was in the "valid" range and stall warnings were enabled. This spooked them, for such. So he pulled back again. That had to be confusing.
@@TheProPilot Thank you!
@@TheProPilot thanks for the indepth explanation. Yea i was thinking about taking the "short way" instead of the "long" one out of the potential stall - but than i realized that that its one giant stall condition all the way down. No point in taking the short way to prevent a stall thats already happened haha.
Also always wondered why stall warnings seem to dissapear at very high AOA & low speeds.
Unfortunate, but I think the pilot was in panic..yes. He should've give priority to the left.
Ah I see, the butter landing machine
1:45
Reducing speed while stalling seems pretty odd.
They took a guess and thought they were going at a crazy speed
You mean reducing throttle power while stallling sounds odd.
Why didnt the Pilot just put the flaps on 0 and put the nose down untill he would gain enough speed to recover his plane? I mean what the fuck did they expect to happen when keeping the nose up with no speed?????
Im a 14 year old kid and even I can see what hes doing wrong. Its general pilot knowledge that when stalling you put the nose down then go into toga.
I'll give you that, absolutely. He was not a good stick IMO. Majority of his hours were spent crossing the Atlantic etc instead of stick and rudder.
Did you notice anything from 1:40 to 1:48? Something happens. Most of the clip the altitude deviation alert was going off... Plus the stall warning was going off. It's kind of hard to judge how you'd react when you inadvertently fly through a thunderstorm with SLD icing in it, get slammed around, AP disconnects out of the blue, altitude warning buzzing, etc and judge this guy.
He may have been a bad stick. But he may have been caught way off guard and fixated on his flight director cues, or maybe even just tried to put his flight path vector on the horizon like he was taught to do.
We will never know. But ultimately he disregarded the stall warnings. The bad part is that Airbus, and now Boeing have stall warning systems that can fault out and give false stall warnings. This can lead to pilots disregarding real alerts.
It's a no win situation and experience is your only saving Grace.
@@TheProPilot on the topic of false stall warnings: did the faulty airspeed reading from the poitot tubes automatically trigger the first stall alarm or was it the slight stick pull in high altitude right after the master alarm went off (because of the sudden percieved airspeed drop - so the computer giving out a stall warning based on other variables than airspeed like altitude/AOA)? would be interesting to know how the warning system/computer prioritizes these things and if the first stall warning was actually legit or not.
@@peterdermeter7044 Its triggered by the faulty airspeed indications. IMO a shocking design flaw, however pilots are trained in the simulator to ignore the first stall warning during unreliable airspeed situations.
@@deloford seems kind of counter intuitive indeed. one would assume that there are automatic procedures in place that keep the computer from putting out a stall warning with high priority when the airspeed suddenly drops by 90% mid flight with the other sensors not giving away something funny. if that was the actual physical case stalling the plane or rather whats left of it would probably be the least of your concerns.
Bros thought TOGA would be enough to pull them out. At 1:06 PF says "I'm in TOGA, huh?" Then at 1:30 PNF says "you understand what's happening?" I think they both figured TOGA would be enough but that only works at low altitudes.
Above FL200~~ climb thrust = TOGA = MCT. They all merge at least on my aircraft.
[overspeed warning]
107,546,765
The captions gets me
What we should learn from here is get Bonin and its future versions out of the controls. Link the goddamn sidesticks or at least give PROPER warning for trying to dual input, electric shock or something. Then comes the game changing alternate law and its startling alarm.. two lines of text, are you fucking kidding me? How about audible alert "all this fancy electric stuff has gone to shit and its up to you to fly the plane, by the way you can actually stall, crash and die since you are not protected from yourself" This needs to be slowly repeated whole remaining flight at around 130 dB. Jokes aside, sometimes i feel the interface between pilot and the plane is done horribly.
Edited: Controls needs to be linked, this is a must. Other pilot has to be able to verify other pilot is making correct control inputs. I recall at 8000 ft or so Bonin finally announced his master plan of keeping the nose up all the way to the ocean. Robert and Dubois both immediately understood what was happening but it was way too late.
There was plenty of other stuff that went wrong before we get to the sidestick connections. Failure to identify who was in charge, failure to apply the unreliable speed procedure, failure to recognise and recover from a stall, failure to press the takeover pushbutton, failure to acknowledge the dual input. The report doesn’t actually say the sidestick design was a contributing factor of the accident (not that I can see anyway)
@@tomstravels520 Correct. There was a lot of crazy stuff going, like when Bonin actually pushed the nose down and gained some speed the stall warning came back because the plane could finally indicate some airspeed. IMO its still a design flaw other pilot cannot monitor other pilots control inputs. This also happened to Air Asia 8501, pilots canceled each other out and did not know about it.
@@janipt that’s exactly why the takeover pushbutton exists. If the other pilot is not doing what you tell them or putting the aircraft in a dangerous place you press the button and take control. Even with a yoke you have to tell the other pilot that you have control. With the sidestick you just block them
@@tomstravels520 My point is, there is no way the other pilot can verify if control inputs are correct.
How Could state of the art, one of the most technologically advanced jetliner ever built in the history of aviation simply fall out the sky!!!???
Mohammed Imam Well it didn't simply fall out of the sky.
It was a stall a stall happens when an aircrafts angle of attack is excessive causing a reduction in lift. Making the aircraft slowly fall out of the sky
French "pilots" that's how.
The First Officer caused the plane to crash AF447
no it was the flight ENGINEER
Foxchu There was no flight engineer.
RetroTactics no it was obviously the flight attendant
It's Bonin who caused the crash.
And the captain is just as bad if he didn't do anything
itll never make sense why he thought pulling the nose up virtually the entire time was the right thing to do...because we cant ask him..
@Libturds Suck no, he hadn’t been trained in startle management.
@Libturds Suck only to know nothings who don’t understand what was happening.
@Libturds Suck thanks for acknowledging you know nothing.
I really don't understand how could they possibly stall a fkin plane from FL350
Airbus aircraft are reliable. How Bonin managaed to crash it... It still sticks with me nearly 20 years later.
@@Ama-hi5kn yeah, I mean if it would've been a Soviet aircraft or an MD aircraft or Boeing that'd be alright but Airbus 💀💀
Я читал полную расшифровку переговоров на протяжении почти всего полета! Много было странных вещей, первая из них была сказана капитаном Марком Дюбуа «когда я уйду отдыхать, у вас начнётся сложный период полета» потом я Особо обратил внимание, когда Давид Робер занял кресло капитана, и через некоторое время другой пилот Пьер Седрик сказал такую фразу «что ты сделал с кондиционером? Ты чувствуешь этот запах? На что ответил Роберт, что он не прикасался к кондиционеру, это всего лишь запах озона!» еще через пару минут Давид Роберт сказал «очень удивительно, как резко подскочила температура в плюс назвав это «жара» и тут же отключился автопилот, и все началось … очень жаль что так все вышло….
im not expert but the best thing to do in this case is not change the flight command. Once auto pilot disengages keep plane as it is. eventually pito tube will unfrozen. But its easier to say, especially if you have alarms and no light outside the windo (all dark)
Agreed. And don't forget they were getting banged around going through that weather so likely that's what disoriented him.
There doll stall had a great fall! 🛬🌊💥
Just sickening
guys a little question... i know that on the a318-19-20-21 and other airbuses have a stall protrction ? why not on this flight ? because there was no valid speed indication ?
Simon Yes that's effectively it. when 2 or more sources of speed are lost or determined to be unreliable the flight control "law" reverts to "alternate law: protections lost". in normal law, stalling is not possible if all indications are true and all systems and conditions are normal.
if you look at this video the AOA value is the angle of attack sensor indication. Whenever the aircraft goes beyond a certain AOA in normal law or alternate law a "stall, stall" aural warning will be generated and the flight computers will lower the nose automatically *if* in normal law.
In addition to this you'll notice stall warnings go away several times for extended periods of time. the reason for this is because when airspeed is detected below 100kts and AOA exceeds 40 degrees then the stall warning audio is inhibited. This is a logic designed to inhibit false stall warnings during take off at low speed and landing with reverse thrust.
So every time he began to lower the nose to regain a normal attitude the Airbus logic for a stall warning was again complete and "Stall stall" was not inhibited. This *may* have contributed to his then returning to full aft on the controls, which silenced the stall warning each time.
Winded. I hope this helps. Very valuable and extremely costly lesson for Airbus pilots.
I'd like to add to this, that airbus pilots are trained to recognise the 'secondary stall' which proceeds every first stall recovery.
I've experienced this in my simulator sessions as well. Although one is told to recognise it as secondary stall(false warning) and hence NOT to lower the nose beyond a point.
But in the conditions faced by these pilots, one can assume it isn't easy to overlook that and proceed to recover, like these pilots tried to.
I know I'm late, but the only Airbus that does not have protection system are the A300 and the A310(the 310 is basically a long range short fuselage version of the 300)
TheProPilot thanks I found this very informative. I was wondering the exact reason that the stall warnings went away. I knew “something” had to be satisfied or rather certain conditions met.
As if this isn't haunting enough: it happened again.
czcams.com/video/E5zPAdGRyr8/video.html
dont let the french fly xDDDDD
@@windshearahead7012 the french were the first to fly, basically.
where did you find this? is it called simfdr?
@@windshearahead7012 donkey shut up idiot
A documentary I just watched stated that there had been numerous pitot problems before the AF447 crash, i.e., that this same thing had happened at least 10 times.
I’m not no pilot or anything . In the process of getting my PPL but I’m confused why he was still trying to climb in a stall.
I don't understand piloting at all, but that stall warning have been ringing for nearly 4 mins, how in the world did he not hear that....
Stress
The stall warning was wrong at the beginning, it only happened because pitot probes froze, so they just assumed they weren't actually stalling (which was true at first).
most avoidable plane crash of all time
Hey this is the simulation of Air France 447
Wow! I totally did not read the part of the title where it says AIR FRANCE 447
A330 says : i said plane is stall 75 time are u litsening me?
Captian : *still put up the plane nose*
You should not make a meme with this situation
@@switchfeverbr9575 .
why would you try to put the nose upwards while in s stall condition???
Bonin was so inexperienced
All due to a mistake, Marc Dubois left the cockpit to rest and handed control to inexperienced co-pilot Pierre Cedric Bonin so that the nose of the plane lifted Lift power is not sufficient to lose control and fall into the Atlantic ocean
It's a good point that the captain shouldn't have left the cockpit. I agree.
No way this wasn't intentional...
Pourquoi l'alarme de décrochage a sonné 1 seconde juste après l’arrêt du pilotage automatique, alors qu'ils n'avaient pas le temps de faire décrocher l'avion en une seconde?
Les sondes pitots ont givrés ce qu'il a donné une fausse vitesse Vrais, ducoup l'alarme de décrochage sonne alors que leur plant de vol était normal
Parce que Bonin devait déjà tirer sur le manche.
Wasnt he getting overspeed and stall at the same time, or that was another flight?
That's Qantas 72
Was Quantas 72 the 757 from Santo Domingo?
@@TheProPilot no, QFA72 was an another A330 which suffered stall alarm and overpseed alarm at the same time but landed safely
The 757 from Santa Domingo is Birgenair Flight 301, which an insect nest has blocked the pitot tube and crashed into the Atlantic iirc
A petri dish full of rat nuerons could have handled this situation better
Interesting video.
Where is the alpha protection? A. FLOOR not doing it's job or is it non-existent? The greatest killer was the fact that although the pilot could've past critical AoA by stick input only, hence by elevator deflection alone, the damn horizontal stabilizer moved to "help" the pilot's pitch up input by rising from -2 degrees (where it was at cruise) to maximum -13 degrees aiding to the wrong pilot's pitch up input to achieve even greater AoA past critical, as high as 50.
I don't know how Airbus imagined to prevent critical alpha from being reached, yet I would've expected that at least the horizontal stab's automation (as it clearly shown that it's automated) would prevent the AoA from reaching critical whenever a pilot commands full elevator deflections. The true reality shown us that the A-330's horizontal stab's automatic command does more bad than good in this situation.
Maverick Su-35S there is no alpha protection in alternate law. In normal law if you approach Alpha Protection the up trim is inhibited, and nose down trim is kept alive. So I'm theory the airplane won't keep trimming. It will, though, in alternate law where it's flight protection envelope has been departed from.
I see, but why were they in alternate mode? Sorry, I don't know much about the Airbus family systems, but due to the AP disconnection and/or air data system wrong input data (due to the pitot static systems freezing), did the flight controls system enter some sort of alternate mode? Or what is that alternate mode/law about?
Thanks;)!
Maverick Su-35S it endtered alternate mode which has zero flight control protections except for G loading. The reason for it was blocked air speed probes.
Thank you very much for the explanation. So the faulty data sent by the probes to the air data system triggered the alternate flight control laws which inhibit the automatic or normal flight controls and flight conditions limitations and the pilot becomes again what he has to be.
Maverick Su-35S precisely lol once multiple redundant systems are lost then the computers give the decisions back to the pilot lol
shtoll, shtoll...sounds like a Russian drinking song
Bruhh... why this pilot keep pulling up. This airplane need airspeed for nose down
Yeah it's hard to watch for sure
He Just Do Post Stall
What to Air France teach their pilots?
Les pilotes sont tout simplement indéfendables, ils avaient absolument TOUTES les informations pour detecter le décrochage :
- 10° d'assiette + chute d'altitude
- Baisse constante de la vitesse
- Alarme Stall qui a sonné 74 fois
- Sensation aérodynamique de buffering
- Tangage latérale des ailes
- Vario inoperationnel (cela n'arrive qu'en cas de très grande perte d'altitude)
" Nous avions la compétence maximale au sein du cockpit", c'est le plus grand mensonge d'Airfrance.
Pierre Cedric Bonin n'avait pas encore sa licence de pilote, et n'a été que partiellement formé au pilotage manuel.
David Robert était à bord de l'avion car il devait voler pour garder son contrat, en réalité il n'avait pas piloté depuis 3 mois.
Marc Dubois n'avait dormi qu'une heure et avait la fête à Rio d'après deux témoignages, avec très probablement prise de drogue car son cerveau n'a sécrèté aucune adrénaline à son arrivée dans le cockpit. Il est resté totalement inerte.
Malheureusement pour les passagers, c'est une réalité très dure à entendre, mais ils avaient à bord probablement le summum de l'incompétence au sein du cockpit.
Pourquoi Cedric Bonin a-t-il maintenu corps et âme le ministick vers lui pendant 4min23s ? Cela restera un des plus grands mystères de l'histoire de l'aviation.
I'm not a pilot or anything related.. But at 3:40, what prevented them from just going at max throttle and slowly pitching up?
Nope, they had to pitch down because they were in a stall. Pitching down and gaining some speed, would produce enough lift under the wings to recover.
After that, the best thing to do is to keep it leveled, because you do not know your speed, as the sensors are frozen.
@@tonydanielc7739,Excuse me, you feel that you are falling anyway... you see your altitude has fallen! logically someone who has already made a paper plane knows that the paper dives to regain lift and leave...
Clearly mathematicians, and not people endowed with feelings
@@JM-kz7zf Nothing about mathematics or feelings. Just proper aviation instincts.
It's just like the difference between a normal driver who got into an understeer and brakes and a skilled driver who will instinctively fix the understeer by counter steering, thanks to training.
It's one thing to know about the regulations and procedures, another thing to have those regulations and procedures merged with correct and trained aviation instincts.
If he had the right logic and instincts, he wouldn't create that situation or could fix it faster.
But for sure a stunt pilot that has no speed indication, wouldn't start to pull on the stick continuously. Bonin was the perfect example of a man that perfectly knows theory, will pass every exam with 10, will describe you aerodynamics at academic level, yet still crashes the plane by stalling.
They were in a deep stall. If you notice the AoA is 35 degrees even when nose level. I believe the only way to recover is to roll with the rudder.
No, just get the nose down.
@@peteconrad2077 But in a deep stall the elevators will have reduced effect due to the poor air flow over them, possible turbulent airflow to boot. I think some rudder would be a possible escape to help get the nose down.
@@domesticterrorist483 well that is only recommended if you cannot get the nose down which is very unusual other than in t-tails.
@@peteconrad2077 Good point,would it even work in a T tail deep stall?
@@domesticterrorist483 it might.
How the hell do you respond to a repeated stall warning by pulling the nose up higher?? I'm sorry, but this was basic airmanship. YOU FLY THE PLANE FIRST, using the backup instruments if you have to. But continuing to try to climb, while already at maximum service ceiling was basically suicide. RIP to all those who died.
I swear that Bonin had suicidal toughts. I mean, imagine being a Cook/Chef for several years, you're at work or at someones place & someone's pan started to fire up because of overheated Oil. And you put Water in there & literally fuck everyone up.
No, it was startle. Nothing to do with airmanship.
eror speed?
What is the buzz after the stall warning?
Tough the pilots have a LOT of the blame the problem was that the pitot tubes i the nose frezed and the iceing conditions and the computer coudn't read the result because the pitot tubes where frezed the plane tinked they where in a stall because the plade didnt know it but the pilots reacted in a bad way by pulling up when if the didn't touch anithing the pitot tubes wuill defreze and it wold go all normaly.
Computer: Stall Stall
Captions: Don't go Don't go
Stole Stole
auto-generated.
A330 safest airplane
An aoa of fucking 40 degrees and bonin didn't seem to know anything about it
I've gone full circle with this event. From perplexed to angry at his actions to understanding of the massive inputs he was receiving from his vestibular system, and all the way back around to frustrated with his actions. I both have sympathy and frustration towards it. I don't know what I'd do if I felt that falling feeling, but I'd LIKE to think I'd lower the AOA the moment I hear a stall warning.
All they needed to do was release the back pressure to reduce the angle of attack and recover. The kept trying to nose up and climb once they regained airspeed for some reason. Panic? Who knows?
Panic. If they'd done nothing the plane would have been okay.
Not they, him.
Robert couldn't see what he was doing since Bonin's rud was hidden.
I thought Airbus had stall prevention so pilots can’t do this?
Unreliable airspeed indications between the computers disables the protection to force the pilot to make the call. They did not call it well.
right PFD was not recorded. So how come you have it?? Even the official BEA video has the left PFD only
Perhaps he did this based on the plane's flight path and the left pfd
This is literally the BEA recording re-uploaded. I did nothing to alter it. It's 100% a re-upload.
Damn...
Honestly at this point it's just bad piloting. They had over 4 Minutes to recover from a stall. I know you're in a panic, but you have more than enough time to relax and think about the basics. Lower the nose, gain speed and lift. Why were they trying to pull up?
From my understanding, it was a combination of spatial disorientation (flying at night in bad weather) and a lack of speed readings (PITOT tube failure) which meant they didn't recognize the stall, they saw they were loosing altitude and therefore they tried to pull up.
It was chiefly his lack of training in overcoming the powerful startle reaction.