Why Everyone Hated CW Flash’s Iris West
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2024
- I don't know about you but I really did enjoy the flash from the CW or CW Flash TV Show, it really brought one of my favorite super heroes to real life and frankly when I think of Barry Allen I have a tendency of thinking of Grant Gustin. But during this run of The Flash TV show many people disliked the main love interest Iris West. So in this video I'll talk about Why Everyone Hated CW Flash’s Iris West and frankly all the reasons why I didn't really fully enjoy her as a character in later seasons and why her finale should have been in season 3. If you enjoy make sure to leave a like, sub and comment down below suggestions for future DC or Flash rant videos!
- Zábava
i always hated when Barry and iris find out Nora worked with Thawne and shows no understanding for Barry being upset she defends Nora like is noting
Nora saw Thawne as a father/friend due to him helping her with her powers and Iris knew that. But all Barry saw was the man who killed his mother, I don't blame him.
Thawne was only used nora so he can get of cell
im kinda with iris on that one. mostly cus barry was being a hypocrite
@@BlackbirdRXI’m not, Thawne practically is the reason why Barry became The Flash in the first place, practically, everything that happened to Barry, both directly and indirectly leads back to Eobard Thawne, and I feel Iris was incapable to feel what Barry felt, that his own daughter, his own flesh and blood was helping Eobard, even after she learnt that Eobard killed her grandmother, she still went to him, and Iris just decided not see the situation how Barry saw it, knowing that Eobard is part of her reason her almost fiancée Eddie Thawne died indirectly
@@Daniel-si7zp and did you actually pay attention to WHY she is? She doesn’t have a choice, working with him is the only way to stop cicada
I think many of us wish that Patty stuck around. But Barry’s chemistry with Caitlin was amazing
yeah, when I first started watching the flash I was 10 and even at that young of an age I still thought that Barry had more chemistry with Caitlin than Iris.
I heard somewhere that Danielle Panabaker was originally supposed to play Iris
@@The_Notorious_N.O.E. honestly imo it doesn't matter who plays iris be it Danielle panabaker or Candice Patton if she's written the same way, we won't like her .
i hated that too, but at the same time she was RIGHT! barry never shoulda gave up on nora,but barry was also right bc nora didnt know what she was really doing
My ship until the end was Snowbarry
Barry had chemistry with literally every single other female character beside Iris. Caitlin would've made for a better love interest than iris. Barry and Iris don't match at all they have nothing in common and there personalities don't really work off eachother. It's not the actors fault it's just the fact there not given anything to work with. When Iris is part of the team she feels so incredibly out of place because she doesn't have anything to contribute. Cisco's the tech and computer guy, Caitlin's the medic, Harry is the scientist and Joe is the cop dad mentor. What does Iris bring to the table ,what even makes her qualified to lead the team? She's just a bland Lois Lane copy.
For the CW flash they 100% should have had him end up with caitlin
"We are the flash"
@@avariciousgaming1695 🤣🤣🤣
Your this upset at the character instead if the idiots who wrote her.....
pep talks, also i completely agree with the actor part. writers coulda done a better job by far, almost makes the flash movie look good
Problems with Iris:
1. The writers took a shortcut by having Barry grow up in the same house with her as pseudo siblings. The audience was denied the opportunity of seeing them meet for the first time, get to know each other, and slowly get together. When Iris finally starts to entertain the idea of dating Barry in season 2, she makes it sound like she is doing it out of obligation for the future or destiny rather than something that she really wants.
2. The CW sucks as writing romantic relationships. They make it all about the relationship and the characters as individuals suffer.
3. In season 4 she was thrust into the role of team leader undeservedly when there were more qualified people to fill that role. Like Cisco, who Barry specifically named at the end of season 3. Her now infamous line of "We are the Flash" didn't help.
4. Season 5, she chastises Wells for investigating Nora when it was proven that he was right to and chastises Barry for sending Nora back to the future where she should have been all along. She then tells Barry that he is wrong for not trusting Nora because of Thawne who killed his mother. Making her very unlikable.
I agree with you
I half disagree with 5. Sending Nora back to the future was extremely dumb because it doesn't solve the issue and leaves Nora to continue being manipulated by thawn. I think both characters were dumb there.
@@mr.protagonist5639 Nora is remaining in the past by her own will while Barry and Iris are allowing it. Barry and Iris, who should know quite well by now, screwing with time comes back to bite you. You would think that after Flashpoint Barry would realize what a danger it is and send Nora back right away. In fact, he did want to earlier in the season. He just caved in to Iris because SHE wanted Nora to stay for her own satisfaction.
Whether Nora would continue to be manipulated by Thawne or not is irrelevant. She does NOT belong in the past. Barry was RIGHT to send Nora back after finding out about Thawne. After traveling back in time with Barry earlier in the season and seeing what Thawne did to Barry's mother and father, she should already know you can't trust Thawne.
@@mr.protagonist5639 although him doing so meant she couldn't continue to relay information to Thawne. Cuz Barry couldn't guarantee what she was telling him.
@@dkirby9052 ok but what's to stop her from just coming back on her own later on? There's nothing that Barry could do to keep her in the future, so Barry should keep her close and try an get her to see things his way. That way thawn loses a pawn and gains another enemy. Did she actually see what happened to Barry's mother and that thawn was the cause of it. Because I genuinely don't remember
Patty Spivot's abrupt exit was the result of a behind the scenes spat between Patty's actress and the then showrunner. We were supposed to get more of her and Barry's relationship.
& at the End, said Show Runner(Andrew Kreisberg) ended up being a Predator
@@ArcTrooperRod-269what?
@@adeletellez5749 Yup, he left after s4 when he was exposed on 2018 & then Eric Wallace came to the party, like Arbiter said to Chief in halo 3:
*WE CHANGE A VILLAIN FOR ANOTHER*
@@ArcTrooperRod-269I mean how could you be surprised it’s Hollywood literally all of them of pedos makes me wonder if cloned grant an now he’s in broadway in Hollywood
@@ArcTrooperRod-269Hey, i saw you before. You and i were defending Stephen Ammel's Green Arrow a while back. Nice to see you're also a Halo fan!
_venom voice:_
*‘WE...’*
_iris voice:_
*‘…are the flash..’*
☠️☠️
Barry said it first, hypocrite
@@BlackbirdRXbro why are you responding to everyone relax lol
@@Rayshaddlife I respond to braindead people
Lmao exactly
Effing Handler from MHW ah individual
I hate hate HATE ! The way cw writers treat the main love interest i swear to god they just think “oh main character needs an issue lets make love interest act like a bitch for very little reason
Savitar had one job😭
@@RED115 I don't know why in the show they call Savitar a villain, he was a true hero, tried to save us from Iris becoming the Iris we know now
That's how CW does it.Once the couple they invest in get together,they just shove the main love interest down our throats and make the show more about the love interest and the couple while pushing everyone to the side
then they always try to make it seem like the love interest was in the right
Lana had so many identity crisis on Smallville it rivals Lex getting bonked on the head.
The biggest problem with Iris West is that she was a side character being forced into a main character role. She was quite literally written to be in a secondary/support role! Now whether this was intentional or not, I don’t know, but let’s look at the reasons. She was oblivious to the Flash’s identity for almost the entirety of season 1. Almost every other series regular knew the Flash’s identity. She worked as a coffee barista with aspirations to become a news reporter. Barry was forensic scientist, Cisco was a tech wizard, Caitlyn was a doctor, Harrison Wells was the founder and director of Star Labs (and created the particle accellerator), and Joe was a cop. Each of these characters had the skills to play key roles on the team. Iris did not. Iris’ occupation and skillset (at least as written) did not lend itself to contributing to such an operation. Each of the other characters had a developed, genuine relationship/friendship with Barry. Wells’ was his mentor, Joe was his father figure, and Cisco & Caitlin he developed relationships with as trusted colleagues and close friends. Iris was the awkward crush he pined over while she was engaged to another guy. Wells, Joe, Cisco, & Caitlin could all have genuine conversations with Barry and support him after he became the Flash. Barry’s interactions with Iris could only ever be superficial because he had to maintain a facade around her because of both his secret identity and his secret crush on her.
As you can see, in every respect Iris was not set-up to be a main character. The cruel irony is she was wasn’t written to be a good secondary character either! Almost everytime she was on screen, I felt the writers didn’t know what to do with her. If, say, they had written her to learn about Barry’s transformation from the start and better developed her desire to become a reporter (or bothered developing it all instead of letting it sputter out), she could have had character driven plot points such as, say, subtley influencing the Flash’s narrative in the news cycle to create a positive perception for him and fed information to the team that benefitted them in their crime fighting endeavors, which could have been her own small contribution to the team. Also, if she had known Barry’s identity from the beginning, they could have had some honest and heartfelt conversations about their own relationship and Barry’s feelings for her while she was engaged to Eddie. Maybe come to an understanding about it. Then I maybe I could accept her being a believable love interest and compelling side character.
As it stands, thats not the Iris West got. What we got instead was an annoying side character shoehorned into scenes and roles she had no business being in. If the producers intent *was* to make Iris a compelling main character with an integral role to show, they utterly failed on that front.
I agree with this 💯 she wasn’t a main character till season and she didn’t do the transition well at all like as u said the other main characters are very important to the story & bring something to the team
I read all that 🗣️ but nah fr spitting with this ☝️
Yeah, they did this for so many of the characters by S9, it was ridiculous
AGREED🗣️🗣️💯
They were trying SO HARD to replicate the Lois Lane Red-Blue Blur storyline from Smallville where Lois doesn't know Clark's secret, but becomes enamored with this Super Speed superhero around town while reporting on him at the Daily Planet. The thing is, that happened after Lois had been on the show for three or four seasons, and had developed as her own character with an established relationship with Clark. So, not only was the Iris as "aspiring journalist" pining over "The Streak" felt like a poor carbon copy of another CW show's storyline, but Iris herself wasn't a developed character to feel as fleshed out as Lois was in that storyline.
I really hate how the people in this show pushed their hate for Wally West SO HARD to the point that the character NEVER APPEARS OR GETS ANY MENTION, Despite the inmense amount of reboots, time travel & different universe shinenigans the show sufferen in its 9 SEASON run-time
Instead they decided to adapt Wallace West, a guy who at that point only existed for what? 4 years?
& This Wallace isn't even comic acurate because they LITTERALLY STOLE his personality & character arc from Arrow's Roy Harper, except that Roy was ACTUALLY LIKEABLE
I'm with you brotha, I loved Wally in the show even if he isn't the traditional Wally West we know in the comics
@@ComicCasualVideosI actually think it was healthy for the character and the show, Wally’s character going into legends was really fun to see
@@christiantrent1030 But just like the Tamaranian Invasion, it was all wasted when the actor lef the show
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 yeah I agree
I didn’t mind Wally in this show they just never knew what to do with his character. Flash S1 and 2 is the best for me . & Wally West in Young Justice I like a lot
Barry and Caitlin had far more chemistry together and would have made a much better couple. Their relationship felt so much more natural than anything we got with Barry and Iris, with anything beyond them being friends just feeling forced. Barry and Caitlin had a leg up from the very start, what with Caitlin being Barry’s doctor and caretaker while he was in a coma and also being closely involved during his transformation into a metahuman. It’s clear that they cared for each other and Caitlin having a rather personal stake in Barry’s wellbeing after losing Ronnie to the particle accelerator explosion, the seeds of a deeper relationship had been planted from the beginning.
That's because Barry x Caitlin was the original ship being built. But since felicity and Oliver's ship made people so aggravated, CW execs assumed it was due to straying from the source material. So they forced the iris Barry pairing anyway and turned Caitlin in to a sad girl who pines after men like Barry Allen as her silver medals and made iris 80× more insufferable
@@brandonr3072 I’ve seen this mentioned a few times and it would make sense with how Barry and Caitlin were written for most of season one. Granted I’ve never looked that much for it, but has there been mention of Barry and Caitlin being endgame from the writers or production team? I gave up on the show after season 4 and never got much into the interviews and other outside material before then.
@Gatekeeper201 you did yourself a favor. The flash becomes a side character in his own show and Caitlin pretty much gets written out for a new personality, but yeah, the reason she falls for zoom and malfoy is because they're similar to Barry. Even though the writers couldn't have their way, they still wanted to show everyone the pairing they really wanted.
Old flash show? Even then and there, people realised this!
That we are the flash scene still haunts me.
I 100% agree. It's like if Mary Jane said we are Spider-Man.
Facts.! Like “ WE” seriously? I immediately stop watching the show after that episode.
Me too that's when
The show went completely
Down hill.
Got to admit, forgot that even happened
barry said it first so...
For me I think the main reason why I hated the CW Iris west, was there was times she was very self centered and selfish. When Barry was going through something, she didn't really try to understand him. Sometimes got angry at him for no reason, when he needs her the most.
I LOVED patty, she was way more carrying and loved him more. I would've loved to see a universe where Barry and patty actually became a thing.
She's the epitome of a "female supporting character"
MC: Girl, LITERLY, stay here... i can not stress enough the fact that if you just stay here, the world will be saved. Countless lives will be ruined, i will fucking die or make a sacrifice, every known multiverse will suffer if you move.. please just stay here.. and i can save the day in a second, move and itll be a month long agony, stay here.. please.. just stay here..."
Female supporting character: "I see, interesting..... so lemme just go do what you said will fuck everything up because i myself have some internal issue where i feel im useless and i want to help even tho me "helping" will ruin us all :D "
MC: ............ " alright, ill just suffer and inevitably marry you anyways, even if im armless for the rest of my life cause of your decisions, you so cute babe"
It's the writing. The earth 2 version of Iris from season 2 was better
that's the wild part about this show; I preferred EVERY version of Iris out there in the multiverse MORE than her Earth-1 counterpart! Shoot, even Flashpoint Iris was better than Earth-1 Iris...
@@OurKindofEntertainment This is a certified true and factual statement
@@OurKindofEntertainmentI would agree with that because an Earth 2 she was more straightforward and tough or had some skin to herself that makes sense And she had character buildup hell even her reverse your version of Iris was slightly better it kills me is very new that wasn't his iris because she can't cook😂
@@christianmbabazi9722
"Iris made me waffles for breakfast this morning."
"That sounds lovely."
"IRIS CAN'T COOK!"
P@@christianmbabazi9722
Catlin was a better love interest, or the other woman who left in the train
Of course cuz the cw never tried to take time to write the black characters beside being one note and unlikable ( cough) Diggle & James
Patty
@@gamecitysavior2910 if they wrote iris better she would’ve been amazing. But sometimes she was just plain selfish and it looked like she didn’t care about barry tbh. Barry’s line where he says that runs for her; that there is no flash without iris, doesn’t make sense when she is rude all the time.
Barry Cisco and Caitlin are all types of scientists, but Iris just there not being useful and getting in near death expenses
Yeah it's like I was saying in my own personal opinion Iris is just a glorified journalist who isn't even good at her own job so in the end she's no help and is a burden and season 4 pissed me off the most because she started taking charge like she actually had any kind of authority AT ALL like mate you are not needed here go away
exactly! iris is surrounded by a group of geniuses who are way smarter than her, and yet she wants to get in on it and pretended to be super smart like they are. not sure why she became leader baffles me?
It’s not like Barry said there’s no flash without iris countless times or anything I guess you’ll have to argue with Barry then
It was like the more push back WestAllen got, the more the writer(s) would shove it down our throats...
Especially, after 'WE Are The Flash' became a thing in Season 4!
ikr that's like tryna say that Lois lane and Clark kent ARE Superman like, it just doesn't work and neither does this that line is a disgrace for any character
@@GoId3nWrId Exactly, the best part is Lois IS her own character apart from Superman! Does she get in over her head from time to time? Yes, but at the same time Lane has her own 'lane' she thrives in rather than being forced to be Superman's gal pal smh
Similar to Clark and Lana in Smallville.
@@GoId3nWrIdor the Bat family is Batman
@@Xehanort10They really tried to shove that relationship down our throats, even though they were always doomed, especially after Lois came along.
In my personal opinion the CW should have just done snowberry because people like the actress or like the writing of the character a lot more
Why? People complained Oliver and Laurel didn't get together in Arrow and Caitlin didn't need a FOURTH love interest.
I love the concept of Oliver and Laurel Lance
@@Ian-rg4yr It truly sucks they didn't get together. Especially because the comics and pretty much a lot of other green arrow media always either implies or shows they get together. Now, for Flash Iris was fine, my issue was he got with Linda. 😂
@@jemmellpyron2527 I wouldn't count Julian as a love interest in my personal opinion since the dude had only one season to go off of in their chemistry
@@jemmellpyron2527they did get together but they didn't last, that's why people including myself complain about because when they were together they made a good couple
To be completely honest I prefer Barry to be with Caitlin over Iris I mean look at how much Barry and Caitlin are compatible to one another
Yeah😊
I agree
Iris and Barry had to chemistry, Patty and Barry did, Barry and Caitlin did. Iris would have been just fine as the best friend/sister like character
Three Problems:
The Writers Made Her Annoying Post S3
Barry had more chemistry with every woman they put him with except Iris (Patty, Linda, Caitlyn)
They made her his sister
Barry and Iris has more chemistry as friends then they ever did as lovers.
Don't remind us it's weird enough 😂 this man married his stepsister well adopted sister
Hey it’s not my fault for being team Allen/Snow I just didn’t want to bother myself with justifying how it’s ok to be with your adopted sibling 😂
@@chibuezeezike5372 Ditto
he even had good chemistry with supergirl
The CW flash show was my first true intro to the flash lore. Before then I just saw the flash as the guy who runs fast on the Justice League. So imagine how weird it seemed to me that Barry was pinning after his unofficial adopted sister who had a fiancé, like dude move on go date that Caitlin girl who’s single and doesn’t have a sibling-like relationship with you. Poor Eddy killed himself so that Iris and Barry can be together 😂
Technically, Eddy killed himself to erase Eobard from the timeline (which didn't work because Eobard is Flash's Joker, you'll never kill him off), but he did hope Barry would take care of Iris.
@@NotMyRealName6 yeah that was Eddy’s thinking but when it didn’t work it seems like the show just killed him off just to have Barry and Iris get together
@@chibuezeezike5372 Like I said, Reverse Flash is as hard to kill as the Joker.
It felt weird to me that they made them kind of like Step Siblings. Sure you could fall in love with someone you grew up with but they call the same person dad 🤢
Joe pretty much adopted Barry after everything that happened with his parents. The part where Iris was practically like a sister was really weird. I would've gone for SnowBarry any day. Girl may have had issues, but at least she wasn't like an adoptive sister. I could see a version of Barry and Dr Snow working together and falling for each other over time. Barry even helping her through the loss of her first boyfriend Firestorm (?) as a friend at first. Ya know? Having Iris be the interest is just too weird given the circumstances.
Joe never adopted Barry he was his guardian. This is only ever brought up to “prove” why Barry and iris shouldn’t be together when it literally isn’t true
I think the only time an actor/actress should be given criticism for their role in an adaption, is either when they talk major bs about the original stories or act like they're making the story better cause they're in a popular medium. The Snow White remake actress and Little Mermaid remake actress are examples of this, where they either attacked the source material or acted like their mere addition was making the story better. An example of unwarranted criticism was the casting of Starfire in Titans, since to my knowledge the actress never placed herself on a pedestal. Though she was a red flag of how poorly they would adapt the Teen Titans characters.
Idk I feel like it should be the opposite. An actor’s job is to act. Outside of their job, they can feel whatever way they want about their work/project.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Well I can agree to an extent as they have the freedom of speech and expression. However, if they're gonna complain about the original story that they're in an adaptation of, it shows how they weren't qualified for the role. It just makes them look like an entitled child and ultimately gives the adaption red flags of lower quality. Now if an actor/actress genuinely enjoys the material, then you're bound to get a better performance as they want to honor the material. This is compared to a spiteful and money driven actor/actress, who'll be bound to phone it in for a paycheck and or attack the fans for not praising their performance.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me The same can be said for the egotistical actor/actress who acts like their presence betters the adaption. A big difference is that the egotistical actor/actress is over hyping their performance and giving people unrealistic expectations for the adaption. All in all, there's a reason that companies usually try to restrict their actors/actresses from speaking on the films/shows, cause it rarely ends well for the product.
@@MikeFireheart I think that in the Snow White example you provided, Rachel was “bad-mouthing” the original, not the work she was in. Should there be a bare minimum amount of respect towards the orginal? Yes. Are people allowed to identify flaws within the original, and see how they can change these for the new adaptation? Also yes. There are tons of people who don’t like their job, or their coworkers, but at the end of the day still have to get the job done. As long as they do that, they’ll have their job. Also there are tons of actors and directors that are “hard to work with” but are still able to produce a good final product.
@@imreadyt0g0h0me Tons? Care to give a couple examples that I can research to back your claims? I'm not gonna act like there isn't some people who were able to make a decent product while hating the source material. There's a reason why I never said it's a 100% guarantee, it's just far more likely to fail than actually succeed in the end. I genuinely can't think of any movies/shows where the actors/actresses hated the source material and still made a good product.
They couldn't have killed her in season 3 because people would complain about it comparing it to arrow season 4 when they foreshadowed a character dying which ended up being Laurel.
Exactly. Once was dumb enough. Doing it twice would have been terrible for the Arrowverse.
The thing with him and Catlin to me feels like two good friends... But I loved Patty for him. Basically, anyone would have been better than his step sister.
As someone who enjoyed the first few seasons of the Flash, and tried sticking around until the end, Iris definitely fell off around season 4. She was definitely at her worst from season 4 onward, which was disappointing since I actually really liked her in the earlier seasons.
Personally, I think your idea about Iris dying in season 3 was good, I just think it should’ve been Patty and not Iris. It was clear that WestAllen was end game, so I think it would have been really impactful to see Patty (someone many people enjoyed; me included) die in season 3. It could have also been something Iris and Barry could connect on, since Iris lost Eddie in season 1. We could have seen Iris help Barry deal with the loss of Patty, which would have helped with the WestAllen relationship as it moved forward. But, I loved Barry and Caitlin as well, and I think they would have made a lot of sense as a couple.
Anyway, this was honestly a really good video, you should talk about the Flash more. And sorry for making this comment so long.
Honestly I agree. The relationship would not have felt rushed. I stayed with flash until the very end. I started to love the show a whole lot less in season 5 where I couldn't tolerate some of the story
lines.
What I liked about Patty was that she wasn't written as an obstacle for Barry s d Iris. Barry was never shown pinning for Iris during their relationship, and Iris was never shown being jealous, in typical "will they, won't they?" fashion.
Barry's chemistry with Kara was far better than his chemistry with Iris and the former two weren't even romantically inclined.
Regarding Iris's race in the CW Flash, Berlanti already established with the casting that his IW will be a black woman, hence giving the West family the African - American treatment (Joe being an amalgamation of Ira West and the cop who raises Barry after his dad's arrest) Wally being the same with taking elements from red head Wally and Ace West.
I think Candice did a phenomenal job as Iris in the show, it was the writing that treated her harshly/ making her out to be an annoying bish (which in many occasions she was).
My issue isn't necessarily with her, but with her stans, who are constantly making fun of and harassing Danielle Panabaker, because she and Candice apparently didn't get along. But there were some very vocal haters of Candice who would throw racist insults towards her and she felt really hurt by them and even contemplated leaving after season 2 and that was so not okay.
Stans and shippers were do fucking weird regarding the actresses. It didn't need to be that serious for them. But I should have expected it given how bad some Arrow fans were regarding Felicity.
The reason why Joe west sucks because his character in the comics doesn’t fit his character in the show.
@@rickyhuynh4641 When not dealing with his wife, Joe was my favorite regular. Caitlin was my second favorite.
The CW fans always hide behind the "you're just sexist and racist" card whenever anyone has legitimate and logical criticism against arguably the worst version of the character ever. It's not the actress's fault, she did the best with what they gave her. The writers just couldn't stop using the Mary Sue power boost every other episode to remind Barry that he HAS FUCKING SUPER POWERS. In the later seasons it's so much worse, the plot literally doesn't need the title character in a quarter of the episodes because they use other heroes, a gadget, or Iris just solved the problem because fucking reasons. The number of massive plot holes required to make so many episodes require Iris was just sad after a while. She's a fucking REPORTER and has almost never had powers in her decades of lore. Also the pseudo-incest was very weird and unnecessary. On top of the weird "forces" being like their kids for a few episodes, that entire plot was just to shoe-horn Iris in when the plot started to drift from being about her.
On Patty, her actress revealed several years after her departure that her contract was terminated (implicitly by now-disgraced showrunner Andrew Kreisberg) because she’d gotten a role on another show... Thing is, Shantel was willing to negotiate her time so she could at least finish her contract (which was Season 2 if I’m recalling right), but the creator she didn’t name was really angry and just… let her go. So that’s why she was abruptly written out (and Joe had no policing partner after that).
On Caitlin, it’s pretty clear that the writers had no idea what to do with her after the initial Killer Frost story (that and her early series ill-fated romances with Ronnie and then Hunter Zolomon); why did they consistently retcon the nature of her powers. Given how good Danielle and Grant’s chemistry was, a scenario in which they got together could honestly have forwarded them both… with or without Iris dying at that.
i thought barry and caitlin made for a better couple cuz of how they were written. the reason why barry and iris dont work is cuz the writers rushed their romance. S1 only barry was in live with iris and iris was with another dude. after he died the writers tried to make fans happy by sticking to the comics and just rushed iris falling for barry. what makes matters worse is the cw arrowverse was changing its structure. they started making the love interest so annoying, giving them powers, making them the leader of the team etc.
Honestly this other timeline's Iris starting pissing me off in 2017. Six months after the other me I saved (Barry), defeated Savitar. First she started get mad when Cisco told everyone he tried to save Barry, but then, when he 's actually back, she gets mad at him for leaving her... But Dr. Finkel actually helped me and my Iris a little in my timeline.
Hey, how are things going for you?
Who’s Dr. Finkel?
The hatred to the character was overblown, but the writers really fumbled the character. The idea of Barry growing with her ended up reducing people's potential support for the couple due to perceiving them as almost siblings. Also, there was too little time to develop her skills and her transition to the team wasn't really well done. She was a decent fighter and strategist, but that's not as clearly outlined like the roles of other initial Team Flash members. In Seasons 3, 4 and 5 she was too unreasonable at times in a way that couldn't be defended, like when she berated Barry for leaving her in the Speed Force without her input despite that not being viable or running defense for Thawne when Nora was revealed to work with him even if Thawne was a war criminal at that point.
Her journalism was set aside for no reason, and when it is given some relevance, her role in the team takes more precedence and the main employees there join the team.
Despite putting her in severe traumas, the show does too little to address them.
Roy x Thea IS THE BEST RELATIONSHIP OF THE ENTIRE ARROWVERSE 💘
& that's not an opinion, IS A FACT
It’s an opinion 😅
No no, you right. The only ones that could’ve rivaled were SnowBarry and Barry and Patty imo. I know those are cliche, but idc
I wanted a redhead, I got someone like me. But I would never trade Joe, so I’m stuck with her
I think we can all agree on that, You can hire the best actor or actress for the role but if they're given a shitty storyline then it pretty much wastes they're whole potential cuz I believe if Iris was given better story material people wouldn't be hating her as much besides the ignorant race baiters that don't like this Iris cuz she's black most of the time is literally just bad writers and some of these writers need to be fired
You ARE aware you're NOT hiring "the best actor for the job" if your primary motivation is to cast for diversity?
The problem isn't that she is black, the problem is that the CHARACTER, is NOT black, so her being race changed is a clear indication they are more interested in scoring diversity points over representing the actual character. Lo and behold, she JUST so happens to be one of the least liked characters in the entire show. She's handed extreme importance for no reason, she never earns it, and she literally steals the Flash's identity with that we are the flash bullshit, and that's just the beginning.
The people that say "the character's race doesn't matter" are ALWAYS the ones screaming the loudest that race swapping characters is an improvement as well. News flash, BLACK PEOPLE hate when this happens, because they recognize it for what it is.
Black face.
You take an established white character, and you steal their name and put them in black face, then you have a well liked black character that everyone has to like otherwise it's because you're racist. Was there any effort to make a NEW black character? No. Is there any effort to make the race swapped character GOOD? No, not needed, you can just scream racism when people don't like this obviously bad character. Just take a white one that already exists, slap some black in there, and voila, job's done.
THIS is the crux of the race swapping thing. It's NOT racism, people saying that are idiot race baiters that are falling for the trap. They say it's racism, so you're not allowed to oppose the change. The change that is lazy, racist, and results in people who are NOT the best for the job being handed it regardless because they fit the APPEARANCE. Case and point, see basically anything Marvel has made the last few years.
Race swapping is a symptom, not THE problem. And people who can't connect the race swapped characters strangely being constantly BAD with the motivations BEHIND the race swap in the first place, need to take a step back and actually look at the picture, not the red herring of "but racism!"
Since I know it's bloody hard for you people to think, let me put it into perspective.
Race swapping white characters is a symptom, it in and of itself is not a problem, it can even be done correctly, see Nick Fury. It however is a SIGNAL of a certain type of approach and ideology, one which is harmful to media.
In the same way, wearing a pointy white hood on your head, isn't itself a problem, however it's a signal of a certain type of ideology which is generally harmful and distasteful.
Do you get it now, or are you going to persist with your "you're just racist" nonsense?
it's because iris is nothing like
Her character at all, her race
is somewhat part of that
Also the fact that she's
not red headed anymore
& Her terrible personality
I feel like people aren't
Racist for that, I'd have
The same issue if they
Made cyborg white
it's that her character
isn't like her comic
Book counterpart
at all it's not racism.
Keep this up, I love you're vids man.
You hit the nail on the head with CW shows having trouble writing love interests, and I feel sad because having Iris being set up in the earlier seasons as an aspiring reporter and her blog in reporting on the mysterious speedster and giving him good press. Later on in discovering Barry's identity I feel they could have had obstacles, not personal drama. I love seeing couples who are happy together and the only drama in their lives is what is thrown at them and how they get through it while building each other up and learning from each other (examples I can think of are Rick and Evy from the Mummy 1999 and its sequel, Hiccup and Astrid from HTTYD, Bianca and Bernard from Rescuers)
I had never thought about Iris dying before but it's an interesting thought with the writing and the storyline they were setting up to speedsters not being gods, and could have set up some interesting plot points.
- Wally, Barry and Joe bond more and Wally steps up as Kid Flash to help Barry through his grief and determination not to become like Savitor/Evil Barry.
- Caitlin becomes overprotective further of Barry because she wants to help him how he helped her with losing Ronnie, and what she went through with Jay/Zoom in season 2.
- Alternate world Iris still showing up from time to time. Some like Earth 2 married to non-speedster Barry, maybe one where that world lost Barry and she's alone or married Eddie.
- Then eventually Caitlin and Barry realise their romantic feelings for each other but feel guilty and so try to repress them till they finally let themselves be happy with each other. Then the future seasons have the obstacles of Killer Frost and other dynamics as you said.
As you said it's not based on a particular comic it's in its own world, and if they paired Green Arrow with Felicity (I think she's an original created character?) instead of long comic running established Black Canary because of their chemistry and relationship/dynamic with each other... why not have this universe be a world where Barry had Iris but lost her, and then found new love?
So glad I found this channel, because I am a HUGE comic book nerd, and your personality seems very level headed and chill. I watched this shows first 2 seasons as a kid, and I liked the show, but because it's a CW show there's always gonna be messy writing in the show lol. I think the main highlight from The Flash CW has GOTTA BE the casting and acting. Everyone fit their roles, and they performed their characters really well. Great channel, and I absolutely smashed that sub button lmao
You brought up some good points here and I want to capitalize on something that has always been painfully obvious to me in this show (and probably all through CW) "Drama in relationships misses the meaning" and without it it's just wholesome all the time and could bore people. The reason why Iris and Barry's drama stands out is because it's very obviously forced, because without it nothing interesting at all happens, asides from the "you never have time for me" trope or the occasional bad guy to come in between them they have no reason for any natural interesting drama, so their relationship is quite barebones. (which is fine if that sort of things satisfies you)
Patty on the other hand is already heavily involved with meta humans, like Cisco said she would fit in team Flash. They could have even geared her up with star labs equipment to help Barry out in the field, which could have led to some drama down the road. Overall even Patty and Barry would succumb to forced drama. They would have been quite the simple "partner in crime" type relationship. Fun.
And then we have Felicity. Felicity and Barry could possibly work well because they're basically in the same boat, they both crushed on someone that (at the time) did not feel the same way/were afraid to confess their feelings, bonding over that. Oh and they're both nerds. Neat. The long distance relationship thing could naturally bring a bit of drama and interesting scenarios but would eventually lead to CW forcing more drama. I like how you described Felicity and Barry basically being the Caitlin and Barry lite. Perfect segue to..
Caitlin and Barry. A lot of people don't make this parallel but the duo was done in the Flash before. 1990s The Flash, Barry and Christina. Tina was a star labs scientist just like Caitlin who studied Barry and fell for him, (Barry vice versa) after her husband died. (aka Ronnie) Which has all crossed paths to the CW universe. She quite literally is Earth 1 Caitlin married to Earth 1 Barry. Two brilliant minds working together as a team is always great, but there was little to no drama between them. Something Barry and Caitlin would easily fix. #1 With everything you mentioned in the video plus her struggles to let go of Ronnie, his struggles getting over Iris, they compliment each others growth and development. #2 The drama is natural because she could develop a more overprotective behavior towards him after the many times he's nearly died, due to her Ronnie PTSD. Which sparks decisions that easily lead to more natural drama and Killer Frost is literally Barry's weakness, ice. They wouldn't just be two brilliant minds, but also a metahuman duo. AND she could slow down speedsters, like Thawn. Imagine what they could do if they put their minds together during a battle? CW wouldn't have to force anything, the drama is all there already. Oh and they're *also* both nerds.
Savitar and killer Frost just double down on the idea that no matter what Caitlin and Barry work perfectly. Even as villains.
TL;DR Typical CW drama writing sucks and they had great drama opportunities in the palm of their hands but ignored it. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I would of preferred Barry ending up with Caitlin since they had a lot more compassion and they were more on the same page
Great video man,
For future videos my advice is to use footage in the background that relates to the character you're talking about (It was kinda weird hearing about Patty/Caitlin for minutes while seeing Iris and Barry 💀)
I think because it seemed like it was pushed for Barry to fall in love with Iris to be with her. Even though in the first season they made it seem like that Barry and Caitlin had more chemistry..
I think that after Iris's death in season 3, at the start of season 4, they can start realistically building up the endgame of Flashfrost.
Haha! No
When Iris "died" I really felt that, but she comes back next episoode I was like really? All this lead up to nothing, to then make her the leader of the team just repeating the formula. For me, Patty, Julian and Ralph not staying made the show worst, these characters not only had good chemistry but the situations should they have stayed would have been for the better, no doubt
One of my least favorite scenes is when Ralph ask Iris how she could possibly know what he is going through with Devoe and she says she knows because she is the leader for 2 reasons
Number 1 it’s team flash and literally anyone else on the team is a better suited leader but flash is the leader
Number 2 being the leader of a team doesn’t mean you know what your teammates are going through she could have just brought up Savitar wanting to kill her
I hard ship Barry with Kara.
Thy has shipped well
To me the biggest issue was she is his sister
Like for real her dad calls Barry his son and they were raised that closely together. I am amazed this is never addressed.
If I was raised with someone and they and me had a sibling relationship then they said they were in love with me Id be like what??????
The childhood best friends to lovers troupe would be fine and acceptable..but there was no reason to have him taken in by Joe and raised by him! Its just wierd. Honestly having Barry be sent off to foster care or a relative and coming back years later and meeting Iris again would have made for better story telling anyway as we would see them reconnect and grow feelings for each other vs Iris just marrying her quasi adopted brother once her fiance bit the dust.
@@vianjelos exactly. When Joe calls him his son and it isnt a figure of dpeech its creept
If her character wasn't bad enough, she's his adopted SISTER!
Ehhhh he was in love with her before they were “forced” to become siblings due to his mom’s murder. It wasn’t like they grew up from jump as siblings .
@djfunkgut Still weird, especially with how young he was when he was adopted.
The immediate and most obvious (they even pointed this out in the first episode to get it out of the way) and that’s: they were basically siblings? Like Y’know? I thought this was always werid.
My biggest complaint with season one, which I still think is the best thing The CW has ever done, is that they had the great “Crazy For You” episode that showed off Barry and Caitlin’s chemistry, had them say they were moving on from Iris and Ronnie respectively, and implied that they were into each other. Then immediately followed that with the Firestorm arc and Caitlin obsessing over Ronnie again, and then Barry obsessing over Iris again right after that
Iris dying beyond setting tone and establishing stakes gives Barry the opportunity for character development, internal struggles. Barry didn't really grow as a character ever towards the end of the show, he was just in a loop of learning the same things again and again and again. They had such an easy way to develop him further and said, "nah"
I gave up on Snowbarry while the show was still running
Then I was so wishing Caitlin got more time because god the writers hated her
Dude great stuff keep it up
It's simple it was character assasination after character assasination from the writers and it's not just her
Imma be real, when they retconned Iris West to be Barry's step sister I checked out on thier relationship. That stuff has always been weird to me. That and as you said, they made her way more important to solving crime than she ever was in the comics. And that's not to say she hasn't got one over on s bad guy or two, but it was no where near ,Barry can't function unless Iris tells him what to do. Or the team for that matter, but that's does another video 😂
Yea it was weird..Joe raised him since he was what 10? Barry is more Iris' brother than Wally since Iris was never raised with Wally.
My issue was always the fact they'd make Iris be a jerk or make bad decisions and the story would frame it like she was in the right.
The actor has nothing to do with it. It was bad writing.
The actor does have something to do with it.
It's a show.
She's a character.
That requires acting. If she were just so good at acting you'd be saying "The actor is REALLY good and makes me wanna like her so much, but the writing is just a trash fire."
She's not nearly that charismatic though, most of the time she's barely acting honestly. She was explicitly hired for that role for being black, that's the nature of race swapping. They didn't audition hundreds of actors and a black woman just so happened to be the best for the job, they explicitly wanted to change this character into a black character, because of diversity and so when people don't like her they can just call them racist.
The writing keeps saying she's right and doesn't punish her bad decisions for the same reason they changed her into a black character. Race swapping is the symptom, the bad writing is the disease. They CAN'T punish Iris for being shitty, because then they would be racist for attacking a black character. Race swapped characters routinely don't face any actual consequences for peril because they need to be mary sues, everything just has to work out for them because of the racist rules of writing "minority" characters. Things they do not earn are handed to them, they can't be removed from the story for any reason so they have ultimate plot armor, they need to be written as girl bosses, so their personalities are unbearable.
Anyone who looks at shows deliberately taking a white character and making them black and touts the "Race doesn't matter" rhetoric is falling for the bullshit of "You just don't like her cause you're racist!".
Meanwhile literally everyone on this video is saying the same thing without actually saying it.
The girl who played Patty should've been Iris.
The actors have good chemistry, she's liked way more despite having so much less screen time, and she's a much better written character. But they couldn't hire the best person for the job, because they had to hire for diversity. Plus if they make Iris black, they can then race swap the entire West family, that makes Wally West, a very popular WHITE character, now black, therefore you must like him and they don't actually have to write him well. Also all of Barry's children get to be black as well, so that's MORE diversity, and it doesn't matter how awful their writing is. But, heh, you LOVE Impulse, surely. And how he and Nora act like actual fucking children despite being adults, right? Right? You love them! Remember, if you don't you're racist, so you love them right?
Ignoring the roots of the problem don't solve the problem.
I understand your points. I've heard about what some people feel towards her, however I never saw the later seasons, haven't even finished season two. I can only talk about her in the first few seasons and I don't mind her. It is the writing that can be a big issue with where you take the characters and story. Definitely talk more about The Flash
Respect the CW DC shows. They kept DC live action media alive during the era of the DCEU. Without these CW DC shows we would just have had the movies and DC as a brand in live action media would be dead. When the Arrowverse was in it's prime all we got from the movie side were Man Of Steel, Batman Vs Superman Dawn Of Justice, Wonder Woman, Joshtuice League, Aquaman, Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam, Suicide Squad, the Suicide Squad, the Joker, Birds of Prey and the Batman. 6 of those movies were recieved well. That's 6 movies/13 movies.
am i the only one who realize that barry didn't earn iris, he just came back from flashpoint and ended up being with her which even left him confused
I realized that shi to I was really surprised they just were together immediately
I really hate the “we are the flash” because uhm no We aren’t I am the flash I got struck by that lightning you didn’t. Iris really frustrated me because like you said she felt like a forced main character but mainly because how is she the team lead when I’m sorry what’s the name of the team team iris no team flash she was very narcissistic and annoying throughout and not really think “hey I’m not a superhero so I shouldn’t tell the superhero I’m married to how to be one” but there’s a lot more about the shows later seasons that I didn’t like to the point where I probably won’t watch the last season though there where parts of season 3 that I liked like Julian(Tom Felton) he was an amazing addition to the cast though I do feel like they should’ve done more with him in later seasons like make him Caitlin’s new love interest after Ronny sacrificed himself. But that’s my two cents.
But Barry says something akin to "we are Flash" in the first episode, he says something like,"We were all struck by the lightning".
How you feel about that line and how Barry feels is completely different..
Correction, for me at least. They all are Flash, because they're the one who made the Flash persona as a team, except Iris, she isn't in any way a part of Flash from the beginning, she's more like an accessory or support gear for the machine of Team Flash.
Bruh barry said that first
I'll stand by this opinion Caitlin would've been a Better love interest than iris (Sorry not sorry)
Barry talked Caitlyn/killer frost down, when he let her out with the catch that she had to kill him. She couldn't and became Caitlyn again. I have a Playlist with one video for Barry/Caitlyn shipping fuel
the future is pretty much guaranteed that if Iris died that Barry would fall into depression and the surviving time remnant would be neglected and become savitar, regardless of how much it doesn't sound like what team flash would do, it in a way already happened in the future, the only real way that they could've avoided it as I see it, is if they try really hard to avoid that future despite Iris's death, but by the sounds of it when Iris died, not anyone cared about what would happen next. the only reason I could see this changing is if someone from the future or past came to the present and made a difference, but I'm not sure if that could be someone of a different earth like supergirl though. This is my theory
The issue is that the gang are full of hypocrites :/ you’re right. They act like they’d care but it wouldn’t be shocking if they did a 180. I mean they willingly went and killed 3 people and tried killing another 2-3 and yet have the gall to act like they don’t kill and killing is bad.
After witnessing that future and learning that Savatar was a remnant of him Barry wouldn’t have created any remnants to fight Savitar. He could’ve just mourned the loss of Iris. No remnants, no fighting, no Savitar.
@@chaosrubix8750 did future flash ever find out who savitar was, because if he did that would mean it didn't change anything, if they don't confirm or deny it I'm going to assume it's an exact copy of the present
@@jagudragon9475 no that’s why Barry went into the future in the first place to find out who Savatar was and how to defeat him. He came back with Tracy Brand name that’s about it
Ngl, you had some points that sounded amazing(I don’t keep up with the Flash series anymore), but it’s pretty disrespectful to write off most, if not all, people who dislikes Irish being black as racist. I might not be one of them, but I can understand why ppl would be kinda frustrated that a character was altered for no other reason than seemingly brownie points for the audience(I’m okay with change if it actually matters/makes sense).
It does actually matter, the actor who played black Iris was black
I think the change in race makes sense for having Barry and Iris raised together. They would feel much more like siblings if they're both white. It's easier to go "Oh yeah, they're not related" when Iris is black.
I appreciate your video and all the people who left comments. I was recently watching a reactor watch season 1 Flash for the first time and all the commenters were hating on Iris and spoiling future episodes. They kept saying things like "Iris will become more annoying and more unbearable in future". I didn't mind Iris when I watched the Flash so I was kind of curious why there's so much passionate and negative feedback around this character. I know that dislike was projected onto the actor, Candice, as well. She talked about the racism and hate she got throughout the entire show and I feel bad for her and what the writers/creators did with her character.
When they force that whole why did you leave me Barry it was stupid like the moment you decided to be part of his life him being a superhero knowing the risk like lady you knew what you signed up for. I’m not saying she shouldn’t feel that way but for her to get up all in his face about him disappearing is like sweetheart there’s pros and cons wit being with a superhero.
She was okay. I never hated her but liked Caitlin/Felicity/Supergirl better with Barry.
Funny enough i thought her and Eddy worked really well.
Her and Eddy were really good
I loved her and Eddy. They would've been really cute, and Eddy was such a good guy. Too bad his sacrifice literally meant nothing.
Iris was so selfish when Barry went into the speed force so save the city. Bruh.
The Problem i had with Iris was how the writing of the character changed once iris and Barry got together., like in the first season, their was something about iris that felt so light and positive (which was pretty much how the tone of the first season was) her character felt very joyful and full of wonder, which made you understand why barry liked her so much. But then once she found out he was the flash and then they got together and she became involved with team flash, the character then switched into being moody and dramatic and it felt like the dynamic between barry and iris became like an old married couple. And the character just felt really stale and obnoxious. but i think the big thing really is just how it felt like the character or the actor wasn't having fun, it was always this serious annoyed expression on her face like the light was taken from her eyes. and i don't wanna just bash her this happened to Barry and many of the characters. Like Barry just seemed more depressed as seasons went by where the only time he lightened up was when he teamed up with Arrow because they had to make him comedic to balance Olivers justifiable seriousness. And then theirs cisco who seemed to be having so much fun in earlier seasons to where by the time he leaves team flash, it gives very little impact for how quiet and depressed the character was acting.
But anyway i don't know if its the writers or the acting just fell down, but it really damaged a lot of characters especially Iris.
I think imma have to rewatch this show, at least the first few seasons. Crazy how it’s gonna be a year since I first watched it last May.
The problem started when the writers decided to make her as much of the main character as Barry
I always wanted Barry and Caitlin to be end game. She had lost everyone and the one constant was always Barry since Cisco was pretty much strictly written as a best friend
I dropped the show at like season 7 I think but I honestly don’t remember anything after season 3. Thought I was losing interest as I was getting older nope turns out the writing just wasn’t memorable to me😂😂. Can’t believe this show came out 10 years would love a retcon of the last 6 seasons
My issues with Iris(CW) is that She’s just too involved in Barry’s flash life. And not just Involved in it but she goes out of her way to meddle with it.
The whole Superhero x Civillian romance trope works because its two people so different finding some common ground and that common ground is comfy for them. And Said common ground is usually not related to neither of their Superheroism and their. Civillian duties.
(I think of the scene where Spiderman and MJ in the comics where they watch The sunset on NY on top of a bridge.Peter and MJ are Two opposite ends in their personal and professional lives.but they bond over their shared love over their city and their seep connections with it.which makes them fall in love even more with each other)
CW Barris doesn’t have that. It’s All about The Flash with the two of them which sucks because Iris takes the spot light from characters that were stablished way before her. While Barry is almost a non-factor in Iris personal life.(i don’t think we’ve seen Barry go to Iris work place or seen things that Iris Introduces him to.)
The actress that played Caitlin has said she wanted Caitlin and Barry to get together
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has this opinion. From day 1 never was a fan of the character
There was also supergirl. Kara and Barry had great chemistry and even battled side by side. They also both had secret identities
The Biggest issue with Iris West is really part of the bigger issue with the way the CW writes female characters in general.
They really just don't know how to write female characters well at all.
I agree with a lot of your points here and yes I also agree that the ending of the third season should have been finished with her death! However I also think that it’s worth stating that Felicity smoak and even Supergirl are also prime contenders for who Barry could’ve ended up with! While Snowbarry is still my number one ship, either of those two would be awesome! Also yes good job standing up for Patty Spivot! Also it’s ridiculous to say that Barry having a good future depends on Iris surviving! That’s really dumb! You do indeed make many good points here although I also will admit that for me I started disliking Iris in the second season way before season three started because she just felt out of place to me. Her story arcs were so dull and I just wanted to get passed them and check in on other characters! Snowbarry is the true best ship for sure although I’m also a huge Superflash fan and I definitely say that I love fanfics about either of those pairs!
You thought Zoom was the best villain? Iris west wins ten fold
1x12 ''Crazy for You'' is the reason I ship Barry and Caitlin in the first place, then there is Savitar and Killer Frost team up which made me ship SnowBarry even more, I just hope somewhere in The New Multiverse we see Barry and Caitlin together.
Funny how every alternative option Video Maker made here, actually makes Barry more of a symbol of Hope that he is in the Comics.
- Being with Caitlyn, bringing her the hope she needs to continue
- Death of Iris, being that he has to find Hope in the Future to not become Savitar
- Patty Spivot would genuinely allow for more CSI + Mystery story that Barry is known for.
Genuinely wish they went with the route you gave
It should’ve been Caitlin. And I stand by this.
As do I. Barry and Caitlin had a far better foundation than Barry and Iris ever did.
As do i
Candice Patton isnt a bad actor, but when I think of Iris West, I dont think soft emotional support damsel in distress. The CW Iris West is probably closer to the MCU Pepper Potts, but DC Iris West should probably be closer to Lois Lane, and THAT is a HUGE difference.
Thing about season 3, I stand by my theory that savitar is original Barry, the one who died fighting zoom- and the one we have now is just a time remnant-
So I think a lot of the points made here are played out and not resolutions to the writing we got from the show or reasons to hate her specifically and as vehemently as some of the fandom does. Honestly a lot of the hatred directed towards her always felt like a scapegoat from the equally, if not more, glaring writing issues encompassing all the characters but because she’s a main and had more screen time it’s hyper focused on her. The biggest thing being the whole “Iris should’ve permanently died” argument.
S3 was more on the consequences of selfishly messing with the timeline (Flashpoint, savitar, Cisco’s attitude over his brother til the crossover, Caitlin’s powers, Wally’s powers, speedforce prison). The point of Barry not being a God and not being able to save everyone wasn’t specific to that season. it was one of the points of the whole show and had been beaten into our heads from season 1, specifically the death of his mother which was a recurring issue the whole show. They did it with Ronnie and Eddie sacrificing themselves because he wasn’t enough to save the day on his own. Then they did it again with killing his dad season 2, brought it back to his mom with giving up Flashpoint season 3, continued it s3 by threatening to do it all season with Iris and using another characters death to save her, teased it again with Ralph S4, did it AGAIN S5 with Nora (regardless if they were getting a different version of her in the future, the one we knew was gone permanently), teased it with Barry himself S6, then the Wells’ S7 which they also partially backtracked with Timeless Wells, and then Killer Frost S8. Then add on the constant reoccurrence of Reverse Flash, his original villain from his first devastation that he cannot permanently beat over and over again. It’s literally the whole show. Just because they weren’t the top billed core people doesn’t mean they didn’t get the point across. The obsession with killing the love of his life for shock value as if that single action would’ve saved the show and its direction is unoriginal, most likely not true since we still had the same writers, and almost goes hand in hand with the obsession of trying to force the Flash to structurally and tonally match Arrow, down to the expanding centralized “team”, instead of letting it be its own show. The Flash was never meant to be some GoT nobody is safe show either. If it was it wouldn’t have been on the CW.
As a person who liked Barry and Iris as a couple and enjoyed seeing their scenes together. Your points are valid and they mirror some criticisms that I had about the series as it was airing. I like how you approached this topic and gave your opinions. 💕
As much as people don't like the CW Iris she couldn't have been replaced. She's Flashes Mary Jane. His Lois Lane. She's the girl that he ends up with every time. Making some random character or a platonic friend his one and only breaks the entire dynamic of the source material and series that is adapted from it.
They should’ve did what young justice did with Kid flash when the killed him off at the end of season 2 and when it got brought back they never brought him back at all which was a bold decision but showed that even if you win you can still lose
I think the big problem that iris faces, is she's meant to be the Mary Jane to Spider-Man. But in this case to the flash and I don't think it works out that way because even Mary Jane has more popularity but it wasn't until recently they gave her something to do like be a reporter role, then just copied on to Iris. At least, Patty was actually a trained cop and had some real credible resources to work with. Like he said in the video. I'm not saying iris didn't do anything to help in the show and she did eventually learn battle tactics on the field and battle experience. But I feel like Patty was far superior.
Justice for Linda! Sure she wasn't there long but I LOVED their chemistry and I was so angry when she got written off. Grant Gustin and Candice Patton had zero chemistry and I honestly think the writers forced their relationship BECAUSE Candice Patton is black. There would have been social media outrage calling the writers and TPTB at CW of being racist if they had killed off Iris or gave Barry a different long term/main Love Interest. Especially if his new LI was Caitlin or Patty. Which is why Linda would have been the best choice😉😄
I do also think they didn't want to break up the "iconic" Barry/Iris because they had decided on Arrow that the main (superior Arrowverse couple!) was the non comic-accurate Oliver/Felicity. Changing the comic accurate LI once they could get away with but I don't think they believed they could get away with it a 2nd time. Personally, I believe if they had gone with Linda Park-no I'm never letting it go!-it would have given the audience the definitive belief that the Arrowverse is an ADAPTATION or to put in comic book speak, another universe different from the comics storyline.
Iris should have died in Season 3 and if they still wanted to do the Barry/Iris relationship there is no reason they couldn't have found a non-sister version of Iris in the multiverse to bring over. THAT would have been so interesting and maybe I wouldn't have the dropped the show halfway through season 5.
I know you said you wanted to "just get it out of the way," but you definitely skimmed over it a bit quickly, regarding Iris' race and the racism regarding the character.
It could have been poorly worded, but it sounds like you were saying basically anyone with the problem with her being race swapped, we need to get our priorities straight and not be racist.
Is what it sounded like to me.
So for us people without a stick up their ass, worried about not getting canceled on Twitter.
We see this as simple tokenism.
That's where our priorities are.
We don't want basic, easy, lazy race swaps for representation.
We want new characters for representation.
Not just a tokenizing an already established character.
100%
I assumed they changed her race so it would be less weird when she and Barry fall in love.
I hate the fact that she tried to decide that Wally can’t be a super hero and she makes the team decisions
i personally disliked iris from the very beginning cause i never understood how they even became friends with barry in the first place, like they had no interests in common at all, and everytime barry started getting passioante about a geekish topic she clearly wasn't interested to listen to him and implied that she finds it weird that barry is interested in these kind of things, so they never worked for me from the start
i was pretty much okay with her in s2 but she started getting annoying again with how she treated wally (i don't remember which season that was in i haven't watched it in a while and my memory is like a goldfish')
also am i the only one who shipped barry with kara too? like if they went from friends to lovers i would've eat that up, and for a while living in completely different dimensions could have add so many tension
S2 love interest was too good. We all wanted her
Look I’m just more mad that they decided to adapt Wallace west and didn’t even do that right, iris is bad enough but messing him up too? Joe was aight for the longest of the three but it sucks to see his kids get the raw end of the stick
The CW version of Iris West isn't the only one who is hated. Felicity Smoak from Arrow TV series also from CW was started as likable supporting character but when the showrunners made her a main character in Season 3, the fans began to hated her. Even worse, Felicity made Oliver Queen aka Green Arrow's Love Interest after the showrunners killed off Dinah Laurel Lance aka Black Canary in Season 4 was the final straw which led the down ratings of viewership. They even had a daughter named Mia Smoak in the Future scenes which she is more likable character than her mother and she is played by Katherine McNamara(plus she's awesome).
ikr, felicity was okay in S1. however, throughout the series .... nah uh. and, really??
I hopped into the show later on so I don't really have a full picture, but a good amount of what I saw from Iris was just kinda irritating.
Her consistently rehashing previous arguments meant that their relationship was always 1 step forward and 2 steps back.