Czech vz61 Skorpion: History and Mechanics
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The Czech vz.61 Skorpion is a rather unusual sort of firearm; a machine pistol designed from scratch instead of being converted from an existing handgun design, and chambered for the seemingly out of place .32ACP (7.65mm Browning) cartridge. It is a weapon which seems awkwardly small as a shoulder-fired submachine gun, and yet equally awkwardly large as a handgun. So what is it?
Well, it is a pretty classic example of a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW). It was originally designed for vehicle and artillery crews, for troops who needed more than a simple handgun, but could not practically tote around a full size rifle. The vz.61 is small enough to be worn in a belt holster, keeping it readily at hand but as unobtrusive as possible. With the stock extended, it is capable of much better accuracy than a handgun, and the combination of fully automatic fire with the light .32 caliber cartridge makes for a high volume of quite controllable fire.
The Skorpion is also a remarkably sophisticated mechanical design, with a very compact hammer fired mechanism and a rate reduced to keep the 20 round magazines from being expended too quickly.
Thanks to Marstar for letting me examine and shoot their Skorpion!
Русская версия: • Skorpion Vz. 61 - Забы...
I look at the Czechs kinda like the Warsaw Pact version of the Belgians; They usually aren't the first country that comes to mind when you think of great gun designers, but they've been quietly influencing and innovating a surprising amount firearm technology for most of the 20th century.
I dont know about you but FN FAL FN P90 FN Minimi Fn five-seven belgians are pretty much the first one to come to mind right after germans.
You are right. That never occurred to me. The American, British, German, and Russian guns are the most well known, but in reality the best ones are Belgian and Czech.
They built guns for the Germans.
@@GF-nm1cl
Also they influenced the design of interwar british gun design, like the BREN gun.
Look up Brno Super Shotgun, It still holds its price after all these years. I would say its better than Beretta sport-shooting shotguns.
My whole life, I honestly thought this “pistol” was a plain blowback, open bolt design. Amazing Czechnology.
it really is slavic practicality meets german engineering
Chefs kiss on that pun. *mwah*
The "rate reducer" also serves as a recoil absorber. Thanks to this mechanism, the recoil is very small compared to a regular pistol and safely allows comfortable aiming with the style of resting the stock on the chin.
It really is brilliant.
I figured it used a telescopic bolt _(like the Uzi)._
Being unfamiliar with its design I found it odd that they didn’t just house the magazine in the grip.
My interest was seeing how its rate reducer functioned - _machine pistols have notoriously uncontrollable firing rates_
We know recoil impulse comes down to ΔT, and slowing down that transfer to the shooter really sets this design apart.
Czechnology: What you get when German quality and innovation meets Slavic practicality and cleverness.
The best of both worlds
The Czech lands would have been like Germany if only it hadn't been for Communism.
Maybe better, since our industry wasn't bombed to dust.
Absolutely, they were in a top position after both wars. Which makes it all the more unbelievable how fast their success was reversed under Klement Gottwald :'(
well, that’s what you get, when 1/3 (until after wwii) of your population is... ethnically german.
Yeah Austrian invest a lot in industry and make Bohemia prosper and core of Austria industry
Guess Ian really likes that stock, explaining how it works twice and all
Maybe that was stock footage.
Given the fact that Ian loves the stock of the MP-40 so much, his love for the VZ61's doesn't surprise me, come to think about it...
Ian Tharp so I was not the only one seeing this... probably the first time I saw Ian forget a cut :O
Seeing this little error makes me realize how rarely he actually makes mistakes in videos.
From the way the footage looked (it was a bit blurry during the first explanation) I think the double explanation is either a misedit or the first explanation was left in to show he isn't perfect.
I never realized you could just 'boop' the folding stock into place.
"This SMG is proud of its rapid fire, low recoil, and Czechoslovakian roots."
Far Cry 5
@@scarydave7245 : )
"... but, at 850 rounds [per minute], it puts out a lot of cartridges."
Vladof! You don't need to be a better shot; you just need to shoot _more bullets._
"Without ammo, you're just a schmuck with a paperweight."
@@TheDennys21 but it only takes 1 bullet to kill, please spare me the heresy
"Use a gun. And if that don't work, use _more_ gun"
4:12 gun Jesus sure knows how to handle his firearm
A1179125CE that was pretty cool!
You can crucify him anytime
Very smooth
"There's no more room in heaven"
@@stiky5972 so that explains why there's so many zombies walking around.....
👿
I always liked this thing. Actually, I like most Czech guns. They seem to really know how to make some interesting stuff.
Jesse Sisolack same here
They were, of course, the first nation in Europe to truly embrace the gun and use it to full advantage.
Jesse Sisolack Me too.
Vz 58 is a good mod of AK, CZ-75, CZ-550, CZ-805, great firearms
Mod of an AK? Vz 58 has nothing to do with AK, they just look similiar... Same as Stg44 and AK...
Literally the only gun channel I watch... makes me feel like I'm watching a PBS antiques roadshow on guns... I love it
All the best channels on youtube have a PBS vibe to them. I've worked overnight shifts before where the only thing keeping me sane was PBS doing a 3 hour marathon documentary on the Roosevelt family or something. Far as I'm concerned PBS is the only TV channel (well, in my case I get like 5 different PBS channels) worth watching anymore.
Some of the Czech police departments still use these guns. You can see patrols with old Scorpions around holidays guarding crowded places.
It ain't broke aftwr all
And in Slovakia too, its very good gun
Its not exactly intimidating so it wont disturb peace, its light and small so really comfortable to bring around while walking. Its not a very powerful round, so no need to worry about overpenetration. Perfect.
Then you remember its a machine pistol, so accuracy is not the best and got lots of spread.
@@whoami1449
True ...
... but then there is this ...
I got into a cordial, and polite, disagreement, with a person, whom knew their weapons, and whom asked me what my perfect carbine, in a home defense situation ...
Unfortunately, I've forgotten which video, or the person, and, even on the Galaxy Note 20 --- my only working piece of technology --- the CZcams app is not really adept, at all, at finding previous comments I've made.
Which is annoying because, after a great deal of 'compare/contrast', I've settled on this.
Reason being is two fold. My apartment (bedsit to my fellow Brits) is not that much bigger in overall footprint, than a two-car garage, three at a pinch, or two, plus a couple of motorcycles. I'm guessing, maybe, 30-40yrds between the front door, to the rear one, on the 4th (3rd, if you consider Street level as Ground Floor/0), give or take a few feet. So firing distance between myself, and any intruder(s) would be in the order of ~10 - 20ft, depending on where I am, in relation to said intruder(s) ...
But, given how thin the walls/floor/ceiling is likely to be, over-penitration is my second most concern, preceeded by having a round, whose size lends to dumping as much energy into the target, from that at the muzzle, and inclusive of muzzle velocity.
Legend has it that Mafia hitmen use .22LR hand guns, or variants with slightly longer casing/bullet dimensions, with a suppressor, not only because that 'tiny' round does dump almost all its muzzle energy at the point of impact, but also, because it is a subsonic round, the addition of a suppressor does produce, allegedly, a report no lounder that the classic, and (in)famous, subtle 'thud/thunk', as movie scences depicting a pistol with a suppressor being used, is so often portrayed. Yes, it does mean getting within only a few feet, but, again allegedly, such as in 'Casino', as long as there are no witnesses (or witnesses that prefer not to have seen anything ...), then the hit is near silent as is possible with any firearm ...
Oh, and a question if I may: as movie 'hits' are portrayed as having spent casings been left behind, would seasoned hit men worry about policing those up, or are casings almost next to impossible to trace back to a gun, and thus person, presuming that said gun wasn't dumped afterwards ...?
@@nigelft.22lr is not subsonic.
The Czechnology in this gun is next level.
Ah yes, I remember shooting this from a motorcycle sidecar while being chased by a crazy electric Russian guy aboard a giant Metal Gear.
_OBSCURE JAPANESE REFERENCE OBSCURE JAPANESE REFERENCE_
_Philosopher's Legacy_ something something _Shagohod_
Baker Tankersley not obscure so long as you have good taste
Wait, I don't get the reference.
metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. in my own opinion, the best in the series.
Everybody gangsta until the Skorpion starts firing to the tune of "Ktož jsú boží bojovníci"
I like how the Skorpion looks like any Warsaw Pact weapon yet engineered like a German one.
This machine pistol is so good that most games give up and let it be an smg
In Ghost Recon Wildlands it's one of 2 compact machine guns you can carry as a sidearm, the other one being a MAC 11.
In GTA5 its called Mini SMG :)
well, he did say that it is thecnicaly not rapid fire pistol but very small smg
Klobb
Worst weapon in Goldeneye 007 though
It isn't dirty because it's been fired a lot, it's dirty because it hasn't been cleaned after being fired a lot.
And judging by the slo-mo they use the 32 ACP White Soot ammo.
throw in the horse trough for cleaning, since any army that thinks .32 ACP is a swell battle round no doubt has kept a lot of cavalry horses too
@@Tiberius_I Le hurr durr duhhh sssfftpp st-stopping puweer
@@Tiberius_I It was adopted by the Czech army as a close range weapon for when you get smoked out of your tank by a Yankee with a Bazooka, Sherlock. Originally it was designed for security forces and SpecOps. It's never been intended as a battle weapon.
EDIT: As a sidenote, US armor crews that cannot use an M4 often have to make do with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol such as the Beretta M9 (civilian designation Beretta 92FS). Glass houses, you know…
@@TruthNerds probably depends on the unit. Some of them might be able to get an Mk 18 or similar in there. I find it strange that various submachine guns used by the U.S. military like the MP5 and MPX (especially short versions of either) wouldn't end up there. Obviously the M9 has been replaced by the M17 and M18 now, so they'd have a slightly smaller pistol with two extra rounds in the case of the M17 if I recall its size correctly.
This is actually an extremely well thought out little gun, thanks for bringing us this!
It was also used for paratroopers, because lightweight ammo so they could carry more rounds. Silencer was also often used. Police and army police also carried vz61, and so did some personel protection units and prezidential guard. Later was replaced with MP5s, but some modernized versions were tried, even in 9mm, which are a bit rare now.
This was the gun everyone hated in Golden Eye
I actually loved the Klobb
I use any weapon an win every time
And odd job hacking away at you in co op mode lol.
Yes, I was looking for this comment.
I loved this gun in goldeneye
Great video Ian. I had one of these back in the 1980's with the issued suppressor. The suppressor was an empty (no baffles) can with a replaceable neoprene end wipe. There were several replacement wipes issued with each suppressor, each had a cross cut in the centre. When fired with the suppressor the first round was a little louder than the following rounds (the oxygen gets burnt out on firing the first round). After that the rest of the magazine just went 'pssssssst'! Then the wipe needed replacing! Great fun on the range. The Yugoslav version in semiautomatic fire only was cheap and popular pistol here in the UK (alas no longer allowed...) Vic
Why is there a red mark on the left side above the charging handle towards the muzzle?
Ian: "Do you guys have a Skorpion I can review?"
Marstar: "Indeed we do, Gun Jesus! We also have lots of other machine guns and things you'd find interesting!"
Ian: "Cool! Would you also happen to have a chair for me?"
Marstar:
Marstar at the time was a pretty shit company. The T2 Garand scandal in particular was some incredibly sleazy shit. Though now that the original owner retired (and hopefully dies soon), the revamped company SEEMS to be better. But their reputation is still right down in the gutter with trash like Hero Outdoors.
I never gave the Skorpion much credit mostly due to its aesthetics not being my thing, but I can't help but be impressed by the cleverness and creativity in its design. Super interesting from a mechanical standpoint.
That rate reducer is really cool. I might get one of these in the future. Thanks for covering this and greetings from the Czech Republic!
Fraje CZ Is your's full auto?
No, I meant getting a Vz. 61 in general, not the rate reducer itself. The gun would have to be semi-auto only in the Czech Republic, so no use for the rate reducer there of course, but that doesn't matter. Still better than it being deactivated.
_Okay,_ thanks for clarifying. I was wondering, too. ^_^;
So what are gun laws like in the Czech Republic?
AJ Tomecek Vast majority of legal gun owners in the Czech Republic agree on that our gun laws are very good. Even better than in the US, actually. We take it as a good thing that not everyone can own a gun. Its about as difficult as getting a driver's license, so if you're not an idiot, you can get a gun.The EU Comission is about to change many things for the worse, sadly... I can elaborate more if you want. Feel free to ask more specific questions. ;)
ITS KLOBBERIN TIME
You beat me to it!
Diez ALOT your profile picture did the video surprisingly well. This gun was used in the wars during the breakup of Yugoslavia by both the militaries and paramilitaries.
Diez ALOT someone finally mentions da klobb !!!
You just blew my mind. I've known of the Scorpion since Black Ops 1 came out and this is the first time I realised it's the Klobb.
You can dual wield the Klobb, but it doesn't change the fact that you're using the Klobb!
This would be an amazing home defense weapon.
Almost too fun to be a home defense gun. Might get all hyped up and end up spraying the mail man lol
@@trevordavis8210 Yeah, well, teach the nosy neerdowell to not trespass and deliver the mail!!!
In akimbo
Yeah, I use my select-fire Yugo Skorp as my home defence gun. Love that gun, even if I’m a bit too tall for it.
It seems like Home Defense weapons seem to be drifting towards semi-auto versions of PDW concepts anyway these days.
Lotta Pistol Caliber Carbines that are roughly this thing's length shooting 9mm with the idea that it's probably the easiest effective weapon for an inexperienced shooter to use with the low recoil and three points of contact. With some minimal accessories (simple light and maybe a reliable basic reflector sight) you've got an affordable package that most people physically able to hold it and see clearly can use effectively
Cz Military Circa 1950s:
"Yes yes, these are all valid concerns gentlemen. But I have been with the troops, our brave men who would fight and die for us. I see now what our next project needs. Gentlemen, take everything you know, and give our men the cutest weapon of war possible. :|"
That and more cowbell.
Even after all my education in firearms this will still be known to me as the klob
Japback13 yep, that wildly inaccurate, horribly underpowered scourge on GoldenEye villains! Lol Folding stock AKs are also KF7 soviets if I remember correctly lol.
video game guns aren't real. The klobb is a fictional firearm named after the game's designer.
Oh my god! Are you serious??? You mean, a Nintendo game changed the name of all the firearms it featured to not have to pay for licensing and copyright? Wow thanks for enlightening us! I think I may know the difference seeing as how we were just referencing a game that at the time of its release most the people playing it were 10 years old or younger. Wanna tell me that COD isn't actual combat too? Being deployed and all, I'm not sure if I'd be able to tell a difference... -_-
Andrew Vryburg -- In case you didn't get the poster's above message... ANDREW, THE "KLOBB" in Goldeneye 007 for N64 is modeled after this gun, and works just about the same, with respect to the realism of that game. Yeah, it was named after Klobb... but it is indeed a Skorpion. PS- When doubled, it's called the Klobber... because I said so. 😜
Few things are more satisfying than taking down the Golden Gun wielder with the Klobb.
Together with the Walther P38, the Skorpion was very common in Italy in the 70s because it was the favorite weapon of terrorist groups such as the Brigate Rosse.
Thank you for finally getting around to this one. One of my favorites of all time and the first time i've gotten to see it taken apart in detail.
4:13 The most badass thing I have ever seen in my entire life.
Very pleasant thing to shoot. Didn’t expect such cool and complicated (in a good meaning) mechanism inside such tiny thing.
A Stechkin would be awesome to see on this channel
Jonathan Borley yes
It is just a huge PM, it's not that interesting.
The research you do on all the weapons is impressive .
Always very interesting
Another excellent video about firearm, I am proud that Czechoslovakian designers did a lot of really interestingly designed constructions! Greeting from Czech rep.
Loved dual wielding these on COD Black ops. Such a fun gun.
@Alex Henry wot
This isn't a forgotten weapon yet!
Mug Face but it is pretty weird
Ian run out of forgotten weapons. He already reviewed every one and now its just showing us cool guns guts (not a criticism)
Outside of video games I haven’t seen any real showings of this one
@@Red-S-267 so it's still not forgotten because it's in like every modern shooter.
the map ironically enough less forgotten than this comment
The Skorpion was my favorite weapon in CoD4 and BO1. So glad you covered it!
Something about this gun is just incredibly cool.
Having one of these with a modern optic would make for one of the funnest range guns possible.
0:35 This time you absolutely nailed the pronunciation of "Schnellfeuer".
Just wanted to say the exact same thing
mitchell
It's really impressive how well he does especially considering that the German language -- to a greater extend than French for example -- contains sounds that simply do not exist in English and are therefor very hard to get right for English speakers. Ian seems to have more than one talent.
But then again, he _is_ gun Jesus and as such needs to understand firearm-scripture, a fairly large portion of which is written in German.
If only he (and all Americans) could properly pronounce, "en bloc." (Think en garde or en route).
It's hard not to be impressed by how much is going on mechanically in such a tiny gun, it's clever.
4:14 he’s smooth as hell with the stock unfold
That bump to deploy that stock was kick ass, Gun Jesus
l wouldn't carry that on the belt, but l'd definitely prefer a Scorpion in a shoulder holster vs. a pistol in a belt holster when operating an armored vehicle.
Also: Czechs. The guys who design guns that look Russian and act German.
Kurt Bergh a good balance point of simple ruggedness and complexity that adds to the function.
I'm sure it's the common ancestry with Russians and over a millenia and a half of being just a border too close to Germany...
Czech Republic in general is a mix of Russia and Germany in many ways :D
Well Czechs are basically ethnically german but speak slavic so "look russian act german" is precise description of czech nation.
I dunno man. I'd rather have a Mini-Uzi with a wire stock. Or even an M3 Grease Gun. .32 ACP is a pocket-pistol caliber and a seriously marginal performer in accuracy and lethality beyond poker-table range. You could surely spray some guys off the top of your tank at point-blank range, but have fun if they're hiding in the bushes and engaging you from 10m away while you're trying to flee a burning tank. The Uzi is plenty accurate at that kind of range and was famously loved as a tanker's weapon; if you've ever seen the video where Ian shoots it, it's remarkably controllable and takes a nice hot 9x19mm round that's leaps and bounds more a proper warfighting caliber than .32 ACP.
*taps stock to bring it out*
Damn, Ian's feeling slick AF today. Neato.
I never realized these things were so complex! I hope we get to see more stuff from John's vault.
I'm a new subscriber to these videos and I have to say, that is one of the cooler designs I have seen. The rate reducer is simple yet ingenious.
Such a cool channel, Ian is a legend!!
I have two of these SBRd and I've had the privilege of shooting one in "20" (Full Auto) a couple times and wow what fun they are!
FZ rc Watching the cases fly out the top is just way too cool, especially in slow motion. ☺️ Love my Skorpion, even though it's without a stock.
Little Jenny it truly is hard to beat in terms of just pure joy for a range toy. Typically I shoot my outdoors but I've brought them to an indoor range once or twice and taken a few cases to the head being they come flying out the top so fast and bounce off the ceiling haha.
Very detailed and interesting explanation of how this neat gun works!
Thank you for a very interesting gun that I feel gets overlooked. Amazing to see how innovative it was and the genesis of the PDW
I see a Czech Gun, I click the video
You can even see the gun nudge upwards as the rate reducer weight comes back up and smacks the release.
ooh, neat! *watches again*
I guess this would also reduce the uptravel effect or recoil to increase accuracy
I am a new subscriber, love your videos. Learning the history and mechanics of all these firearms is really awesome!
Great channel no head banging music straight to the point and well presented.
That rate reducer is a very intricate design on a firearm that already has a lot of moving pieces. It’s so amazing to see something like that was designed a very long time ago! I wonder if they were to manufacture a new version of this if they would not need the right reducer? And I’m not talking about the new Evo I’m just talking about remaking a version of this gun.
When my grandfather was a border guard on the Czechoslovakian-German border in the 60's, he was issued a Skorpion.
Great...As usual,Forgotten Weapons is one of the most reliable source as far as Guns and its mechanics are concened
Always wanted to know more about the original Scorpion! Thanks as always!
The VZ61 "Scorpion" is my favorite Machine-Pistol.
Generic pun using the word Czech instead of check.
Taijitu of death They are basic bros
Czechs out.
Czechmate
Sorry, were you saying something? I Czeched out for a moment.
Or checque.
Very interesting. Nice closed bolt design to make it more compact. The rate reducer and counterweight are intriguing. In the slow mo, u can see the slight delay in bolt return. Looks pretty effective. The Czechs do interesting things, and often follow their own path. Good thing too. They invented the overhung bolt, among other things. Great video as always. Thank you
Thank you for sharing this very informative video! More power to you guys. 😊
Show us that SKS Drum.
Ian, if you have the time and opportunity, could you please do a video on the Stechkin or its APB version, I really want to see how it compares to the Skorpion and other PDW-style firearms.
Wish my little Skorpion had all those fun features. Great video, very informative.
"Stick around"???!!! I cannot just sit here waiting until tomorrow!!!!!!!
Some wonderful, yet simple engineering going on there - Shame my Czech car didn't come with one of these as an optional extra!
You're driving Škoda? Funny thing is, Škoda (beside being surname) means "pity, waste, damage,...". We have saying "Škoda kupovať si Škodu" which means "Pity buying a Škoda" :D Or "Škoda peňazí" which is "waste of money".
Even funnier - Long before they made cars, Škoda Works was first and foremost an *arms* manufacturer (which is a nice tie-in to Forgotten Weapons - Any chance we'll get a Škoda gun video, Ian?), specialising in large artillery and ship guns.... so it's really named for the massive amount of 'damage' a Škoda can do to the enemy!! :p
Besides, it's a modern Škoda, which basically means it's a Volkwagen-Audi-SEAT-Porsche-Bentley-Bugatti-Lamborghini, anyway...
The Czech make interesting firearms. This seems like a well thought out design on the whole, to fill its intended role.
Wow, a lot of tech in that minuscule unit!
Looking at this gun just fills me with frustration. Thanks Goldeneye!
I find the mechanics of this gun so interesting, especially the rate of fire reducing element. I have probably watched this video 20 times in the last few months alone.
At 1961, it was actually Czechoslowak military. The Czechoslowakia split into Czech and Slowak republics occured at 1991.
And the most known groups to use the scorpion was forgotten to be mentioned - mafias enforcers and hitmans.
I have heard that these can be also shot with butstock resting on your face. When I did larps on high school, we actually took apart a lot of those holsters, to get the leather. They were selling them for about 50cents :D
So awesome love it when you get rarities like this and the AN-94 thanks Ian
Love the mechanical elements in this pistol. Very cool
Finally a video about the original. I still remember when you did that video about that shitty american "copy" called Skorpion Scarab that didn't really work at all.
The 'Scarab' could be useful. I'm sure if you tied a length of cord to it, it'd make an okay impromptu flail; or as a parts donor for a zip gun.
Intratec made a .22LR Skorpion clone, too. It combines the abysmal reliability of Intratec with the equally poor performance of your average hi-cap 10/22 mag. It makes Calico pistols look reliable.
Wew, that sounds horrible.
Whenever the Czechs had soldiers guarding a foreign embassy in Prague, they would have a Skorpion in a holster on their belt. It was huge
I first learned of this of this machine pistol in Call of Duty: Black Ops together with the PM63. I always thought it was a really simple design but it looks more complex then I thought. great video! I hope you get your hands on a PM63 one day too!
That was such a cool slow mo to watch after the explanation! What a cool little gun.
I could watch Gun Jesus all day... but I could especially watch him deftly bump that stock off the hinge all day. That is the coolest application of physics in any firearm ever. Okay... maybe not "ever," but it is super cool.
PS-- I totally live in your home town, Ian... so like, if some obnoxious motorcyclist cuts you off, I apologize in advance. Forgive me! 🤓
pPS- OMG.... whoa... the stock is cool, but the reciprocating weight system built into the handle frame is amaaaaaazing. If that didn't inspire the Kriss and so on, I dunno what... no wonder the Czechs have always been called master arms makers. What a cool weapon.
Hey Ian. Don't forget the Polish PM-63 RAK! They are probably the best of the early PDW's
That rate reducer is one of the coolest things I saw in such a small MP
That was a pretty sick shoulder stock flip
That moment when you think that this small gun is simple as a toaster. Glad to be surprised how smart it is actually is.
1K likes, 0 dislikes. Keep it up Ian!
What a very clever and amazing mechanism and weapon!
that move where he slapped the barrel to flip the stock out was great, thats a fantastic design
You should make a video on the Italian Spectre M4!
I wanted to ask a question about Rate Of Fire in general, Is there an Ideal ROF for each class of firearms ( macine pistol, SMG, assault rifle. etc ) ? As anyone w/a semi automatic can easily fire 120 rpm , wouldnt it be better to just set the ROF for say 360 rpm ? Am asking because it always seemed to me that the ROF was allways far more than was needed. TY for all the great videos you & the Forgotten Weapons crew put out every day.
Its a somewhat complicated subject. A skilled pistol shooter firing 2 rounds in a second is not the same as a submachine gun. They definitely will not have the ability to sustain that rate over a long course of fire, nor at ranges beyond 15yds or so with any real accuracy. Plus... it takes a lot of skill to get to that point and to do it effectively.
Machine guns are not really point weapons, more "area of effect". Because of recoil, no matter how skilled, you can not hold the firearm still enough to get rounds right on top of each other. You will have a spread. This happens on larger mounted machine guns as well. This is why controlled bursts are the name of the game. They allow you to control the general area the rounds will fall in.
So the goal is to look at the intended ranges you will use the firearm, combined with the recoil... And try to balance a rate of fire that allows a controlled burst to put the rounds, for a submachine gun, into a man sized target. For a larger belt fed, you may want to limit the spread to a few feet, as they are designed for suppression and engaging vehicles and equipment.
Too fast and you waste ammo due to the lack of control, sending rounds high or wide... Too slow, and you are not taking full advantage of the full auto ability... Though control and overall accuracy can be improved, and if that is the main goal, then that is fine.
There are some prototype designs that exist, that fire so fast, that they can get two or three rounds out of the barrel, before the force of the recoil even makes the firearm move.
In the 80s I read about a firearms designer who fitted an electric delaying device to various guns to see if they had a naturally controllable rate. They in fact did. He then went on to design a one-handed machine pistol that, without the regulator fired at 1400 RPM and was uncontrollable but at 450 would "gently rock in your hand". Haven't seen anything about the idea since, though.
How is 3 round burst? is it worth it? I heard the older m16a1 used it but don't know what the deal is with it?
It was successful in resident evil: code veronica.
Good question. For most hand-held automatic weapons, the ideal rate seems to be 400-500 rpm, or even slightly lower. This was also the rate of fire that was preferred during WW2 for sub machine-guns and the early, German assault rifles. To achieve such a low rate of fire usually requires a heavy bolt as well as a long receiver to allow long bolt travel, or one has to resort to a complicated rate reducer. Most modern assault rifles and SMGs run at faster rates because the weapons are built as light as possible and as compact as possible. This is usually detrimental to controllability however. The 3-shot burst mechanism at a high rate of fire (700-1000) has been shown to be ineffective. Only the first shot .goes where it is aimed; the following two are usually high and left or right.
This video never gets old.
Love this Ian! I would have never thought that simple looking gun was so sophisticated. I love your videos. Can you do the m2 deuce someday?
The quintessential '80 movies bank robbery gun...
Is that an M14 with an AK74 magazine in the back?? O_o
Yep
Welcome to Canada
Yes. Norinco makes an M14 in 7.62x39, and it's available in Canada.
Ian actually has a video on it. It's really interesting and I'd suggest looking it up!
Me is Plumber then why does it have a 5.45x39 magazine inserted?
It really is an 7.62x39. Here's the video: czcams.com/video/byeMLdt2r-I/video.html
in the slow mo video it looks like the rate reducer's counterweight in the grip also kicks the aim back down, and so not only does it reduce the rate of fire, it also reduces the recoil climb
This is one of my favorite guns of all time
I can't see this as anything but the Klobb from goldeneye 64.
Ah yes, the good old klobb from goldeneye!
i love the engineering behind the rate reducer! looks beautifull to me.
Excellent break down video !