Loft Conversion Floor Build Time Lapse. See as the Joists and Noggins Go in plus Structural Beams.
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Building the floor structure in the loft conversion. It's filthy, heavy and exhausting, but at least it's in!
Doing a DIY Loft Conversion requires a number of things. A Loft Conversion takes time and in my case 9 months although I stopped for about 4 due to the nice summer. Money. A DIY Loft conversion costs are not cheap but about 1/3rd the cost of paying a builder. Stamina. A Loft build is heavy. lots of materials to be carried up and dragged about. finally to do a DIYLoft Conversion you need stamina. keep going for weeks in a filthy environment. a house full if dust and dusruption and noise.
in this video I strip out the old Loft. I the install new floor joists and flooring, add new roof rafters and than I work on structural stud work to support the purlins in the roof. Two new felix windows installation and the Loft insulation. Next if the plasterboarding which in my case is insulated plasterboard. Finally the walls are plastered and painted.
I installed the DIY electrical installation myself though it will be commissioned by a professional. so now we have our first new Loft Bedroom. Next comes a new dressing room and new DIY Bathroom installation.
OMG..... That was a piss load of work completed in 7 minutes. Very impressive the amount of strengthening you incorporate.
I was going to board out my loft but now I am fully aware that it was not as simple as just placing boards on the current joists. I have a lot more planning to do and more material costs to consider.
Thanks for the video..... Great job... 🎉🎉👍👌
Thanks a lot. Yes it was a lot of work. An awful lot to get up there. But the results speak for themselves in the end. Thanks for watching and commentating.
Hi. C24 grade tended to come as treated option only, particularly the bigger stuff. It was also specified on the structural engineer calls. I guess the question is ‘why not?’. The price difference for rafter timbers was so marginal. But at the end of the day, the structural engineer specified it and that is what building control will sign it off against, so it went in. My own personal view, I’m glad it is treated just for piece of mind.
excellent
Many many thanks. Andy
Hi. No the design here was to NOT connect the old ceiling to the new floor above to ‘isolate’ the pair. This was as per the structural engineer. However uprights has previously been added between rafters and ceiling joists to stop the old ceiling sagging. You can see them at the edge. I added more as my ceiling was dropping a lot.
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Hi, great video. Just bought a bungalow and will one day be going into the loft. I understand about having to upgrade the beams, use packers so theres no pressure on ceiling etc, but I got a bit lost on the structural beam. Why was this needed and how was it installed - what was it fixed to to give it structural properties? Thanks
Hi and thanks for watching. I assume you are asking about the massive beams which I put the hangers on. This is because at the front of the house I have bay windows and the span from the back of the bay to the centre wall is too great for the beams I could buy (by about 20cm...grrrrr...) so I did a beam sideways (triple beam in fact) mounted from the staircase wall across to the chimney breast which happened to have a socket in it just the right size (on one side) and the other had a pad just in the right place too, so all on walls just like the rest. If I had another 20cm or so I wouldn't have needed it. Nonetheless follow what the structural engineer tells you. Thanks again. Andy
Looking at doing this in my house. The ceiling beams are too thin to use as a floor in the loft so a suspended new floor needs to be fitted. I’m considering removing the ceiling altogether so the suspended floor can be fitted lower and increase headroom in the loft.
Hmmmm...the issue you have is the wall plate. This is timber sat on top of your walls (brickwork) and the beams for your ceiling and joists for your roof sit on it. So basically the height of the bottom edge of your ceiling joists are set by the position of the top of the wall plate. Your new floor joists for the new attic room also sit on this wall plate usually (and in my case shimmed to give a specified clearance to the old ceiling - 10mm only). I believe (though please check) that notching of the joists would be frowned upon (not allowed) so I don't know how you lower the new floor? They only alternative I can think of is a new wall plate bolted onto the brickwork walls and joists hung from that. This would mean your ceiling height would drop a lot (maybe 8-10") and again you need to check it as an option (discuss with your building controls office - they do help guide you if they can). An alternative is to 'split the span' with a large structural beam (usually steel) - this would allow shallower joists to be used but you only save a few inches at best. I hope this helps - and thanks for watching and commenting. Andy
@@kjdrandy1468 It's quite an old house (1920's semi) so the ceiling joists sit inside holes in the wall brickwork and the roof is supported by the dividing wall between us and next door and slopes down to our outer wall. I was hoping to remove the entire ceiling and replace it with a floor bolted to the walls with rawlbolts. The age of the house means the ceilings are very high anyway so they can be lowered quite a bit and still give 7ft + of headroom. Obviously before I do anything I'll seek professional advice- I watched your video for research purposes.
Hey - It's difficult to imagine in my minds eye and get it right. If you take a look at my 50k saving video I give you all of my costs....but what I can say in summary is Checkatrade is a great resource (no I'm to sponsored). To advertise on there they really do validate your qualifications, insurance, work etc etc so in my experience if you rate well on there then you are pretty good. This is how I found a good and super cheap architect and a decent builder. At the end of the day aI only posted to see if I could help. Good luck to ya! Andy
That huge beam, is it made up of triple or double timbers at 225x75, using M12 bolts?
Hi & Thanks for watching. If you mean the lateral beam, yes its two beams 225/75 side by side but I used M16 bolts. It also has on top another 225/75 so is in effect an upside down U shape. This gives it a lot more capacity structurally. This is screwed on top plus straps every 300mm-400mm or so, making one single massive mother of all U beams. It sites on wall plates either end. I did the calcs (I am an Aerospace engineer by trade) and it is way over capacity but as its just outside the bedroom space it can be as big as I want and stronger is better. Obviously if you need to, do get a structural engineer to size things for you. This would have been more space efficient with a steel beam and probably no more expensive, though getting it up and in would be a challenge. I hope this helps. Andy
@@kjdrandy1468 an interesting and unusual solution coming from building structural engineers that are more comfortable with their concrete and steel. As you said, it has the added advantage of being able to get the material into the loft by yourself. You say there is a wallplate next to the chimney breast which is unusual, I was expecting a new wall bearing after knocking of hole out of the brickwork.
Yip I cached in my luck as there was a flat pad in the chimney brickwork which had been used as part of the gable end supports to some ceiling joists. So I knew it was level and clearly structural. The other end is on the wall forming the stairwell which again is structural so happy days !
Lateral restraint to gable wall where’s your skate board shows how you do that best pal solid brick
Ta
@@kjdrandy1468 what it was you sound just likeJons Random Reviews haha Ringer.Where the rafters meet the gable lateral restraint straps how do you fit them to the wall
Hi Andy. Really informative series and I'm about to start on a similar project. Do your new timbers just rest on your wall plate or are they fixed to the plate in anyway. With the noggins etc it looks as though thats not needed.
Hi Robert. Thanks for watching. You actually answered the question yourself. The noggins are holding the beams upright so no they are not fixed to the wall plate. To be honest these ones are 3" wide so stood up nicely all by themselves! I did however use plywood shims at one end to make sure that they were level and ensured that these were at least 150mm long, partly to make sure I 'landed on them' when laying the beams as manipulation of beams so heavy in tight spaces can be tricky. Thanks again for watching. Andy
I want to use my loft as storage. It was built in 1935 so wouldn't want to build off existing beams as they aren't very strong. For storage purposes only can you install new beams from wall plate to middle wall on both sides with no issues? It's 4.1m span what size beams are recommended. Thanks
Hi. I would get some advice. Its a few hunderd quid but then your floor is legal and you wont get issues in future.
What are the joists resting on at the outside ends? did you have to taper them down to follow the roof line and get to the outside wall or did you have other internal walls for them to rest on?
Hi. Thanks for watching. Yes the house has two brick courses and wall plates on both but I used the inner mostly (timber on top of the wall). The joists were tapered to a minimum of 100mm high at the tip according to structual engineer instruction so the beams only just reached the outer course. THere was also an internal wall (in the middle of the house) which the othet end rested on. The total span was circa 8m and you dont get beams that long, particularly wooden ones! So I had about 3.7m spans from the central (load bearing( walls to the external walls. I hope this helps. Cheers. Andy
@@kjdrandy1468 That's interesting, I'm just in the process of buying a house and saw the loft was boarded with some thin insulation but was originally thinking of using loft legs on the existing beams when we got new insulation and just putting new boards down, but now I'm glad I did a little research as it looks like I need to locate any central beams that can be load bearing and do what you've done here to strengthen the floor.
It doesn't look like a super hard job but I suspect it's gonna cost me a lot more than I thought! The old owners had some fairly heavy stuff stored up there - higher than the 25kg m2 specs anyway, and the existing boards didn't feel super sturdy, but the RICS survey didn't say there was a problem. I'll have to assess what beams are load bearing when we move in and see if I can price up some supporting beams. The plus side is it's a much smaller loft that the one you have here.
Hi are you able to give us an idea on cost of labour and materials for this floor?
Hi and thanks for watching. Yes I have another video titled 'saving £50k' in which I break down all of the costs and also in the description have a link to the spreadsheet with costs which you can download so you can see the full details of materials, costs and sources. I hope this helps and thanks again. Andy
Nice job. Your loft height is crazy high haha. Mine is only 1.9m. What size are them beams and how big is the span supporting all them joists?
Hi. Yip mine was over 2.4m. The beams are 220mm x 75mm and the span was 3.6m at 400mm centres. I would say they are oversize but actually support the roof too as structural walls were added (structural stud work and ply face sheets - see another video of me chopping the roof out) to pick up on to new rafters. This is where the structural calc engineer earns his £500. You can go with not so tall beams at more regular centres (closer together) or use steels to reduce the 'unsupported span' which reduces the span. There are loads of span tables which you can down - load to get a guide, but building control (the council) may insist on calcs, particularly if you are also supporting the roof as you are taking out roof structure. I hope this helps. The bigger problem you have is that the stairs need to have 1.9m height (with 1.8min as alleviation) and its unlikely your ceiling joists will be up to regs, so you may struggle to get a legal staircase in....worth checking before you start. If you are too low, then you would need to increase the roof height above that which is there (via a dorma) so you would likely need full planning permission to do that. Andy
Why not use steel?
Hi. Good question. First I guess steels are expensive. But second, the old roof isn't straight. it bows and waves between the a-frames (the purlins aren't straight) so there'd be a lot of packing and fiddling about. Finally, there'd have to be a big hole cut to get them in...these all for the roof support. In terms of floor joists, they weren't needed really as I had lots of structural walls to rest the new joists on and the spans worked out OK. I had plenty of bedroom so shaving off an inch or two wasn't worth the extra hassle. I hope this helps.
why did you replace them joists in the first place, what size were the originals? Also if they are being supported in the middle by a brick wall, could you really put a lot of weight on them realistically?
Hi. The original joists like in most houses are way too small for this span. There are standard 'span tables' which tell you how big joists need to be. I seem to recall these were 75mm wide and 220mm high at 400mm centres - but a structural engineer will tell you what is needed for your circumstance. Don't be shy with joists...you don't want the ceiling below vibrating as you dance to your fave tunes upstairs for example...so oversize is best if in doubt. These new joists sit in between the old ones and I have packers at each end (on the wall plates) so they are higher than the originals...so in actual fact the new floor doesn't touch the old ceiling at all. This isolates the two and helps with things like vibration and noise. The centre wall is a structural wall so can have the joists on them. I wouldn't be able to do 7m+ spans in wood I don't think, so these walls were very helpful. Thanks for watching. Andy
@@kjdrandy1468 converting from mm to inches, those original joists are 8x3 surely this is enough??. also i have seen loft conversions with 4x2 joists. would you say realistically not talking charts and tables, would a 4x2 joists snap when you put the average bed, wardrobe, counter and person up there?
Thanks
@@db-bv5rs Hi. I think my joists were 12x3s -250x75s. What you are asking depends on span. For a small span it might be OK but for bigger...I doubt it. IN the UK if you had them Avery 400mm apart they wouldn't do 1.5m span and this is without special loads on them. Try putting a 4x2 on two blocks at the span you have and stand on it -three of you..in the middle...and move. See if the beam moves at all. If it does, so will the ceiling etc below. my joists also give support to the roof through a structural wall along the purlins..as way of removing all frames....I really think you should ask. In the UK we have 'building control' as part of the council and they will give you good advice if you ask for it. Hope this helps. Andy
Just started a very similar project
On my own loft, I also have got to cut out a
Binder beam that is taking the weight
Of the original ceiling joists,
Did you hang the old ceiling joists
Off of the new floor joists ?
Hi - sorry for the late reply. I didn't look at channel comments so missed you! No to answer your question. The old ceiling is deliberately isolated from the new floor. I think this is to stop the old ceiling moving/cracking while I am cutting shapes on my new bedroom (dance)floor. There are vertical supports linking the old ceiling joists to the old rafters (they were there before) but the new floor joists are laid in-between the old ceiling joists. I hope this helps. You can see this is one of the videos. Andy
I’m thinking about doing my own loft conversion, any tips and ideas?
Hi. 1. Measure up and then put a plan together of what you want -we used small pieces of paper 'to scale' so we could assess bed, loo etc - where everything goes incl stairs. Then engage an architect. I highly recommend checkatrade. They thoroughly vet anyone on there. You will then get a design that works and is legal, incl structural calc if you need them (this would be extra). You will need drawings for building control consent and Also to get builders quotes (if you need them). 2. Shop around for materials - talk to a local builders merchant and see if they can do a deal for everything, delivered in stages as you need it. Number 1 cost is insulation (shop on eBay for seconds - this saved me £3k) and then timber. Hopefully you don't need steels. 3. Be prepared for months of mess. Price in skips - assume at least 2 at £330 each. Scaffolding can be expensive too so get quotes now while you are considering it.
For us the main design factors were - dorma for head height for the stairs (we couldn't avoid this without losing a lot of space downstairs) - Position of bathroom to access the soil pipe (new drains can be v expensive) - bedroom size then wardrobe space (as you don't get full height wardrobes so need more 'footprint'). This left space for the en-suite.
Finally - is your current heating system up to the addition. A new boiler is a major expense. We put in aircon with heat exchanger which is also good as it gets hot up there as well as cold and cost about an extra £300 over radiators and opening the window.
If in doubt ask your local building control on what is allowed and keep them onboard throughout.
If yo take a peek at my 'saving £50k' video I break down costs and process for you - it may be useful. Good luck!! Andy
Is it possible to do this without steel beams
Hi there. Thanks for taking a look. Yes it is, but you may need to get structural calculations done. In fact, there are no steel beams in this build and the beams are about 4m long! The reason steel beams are used is as, being so strong, they can do the job whilst being much thinner in height, so if you are struggling for head height, these will be better than timber. They can also support wooden joists, so reduce the 'unsupported length' of said joists, making them too thinner (not so tall). However this will all depend upon your circumstance. I hope this helps. Andy
@@kjdrandy1468 so its do able without rsj I'm on a tight budget so steel is out the window
@@jonathanpike2928 Hi. It kinda depends actually. If its a single beam and means that your joists can be smaller, it might not be that different and give you more headroom. Either way you may want a calc done. Building control may insist upon it anyway. Andy
why use treated timber indoors?
Hi. 'm really sorry as my phone says I responded but on the computer it doesn't. So to recap (in case you didn't get my phone response) the treated timber was both specified by the structural engineer and also, in the large sizes, was all that was available as 'graded' timber. The builders I used for the dorma used treated timber too but rough (unplanned) so I guess its something building control looks for. It also gives me peace of mind. Thanks for watching and commenting. Andy
the softwood is bearing in places outside of the heated zone and potentially suffer condensation from leaking water vapour. If not treated and with the right conditions, it would probably take a decade or 2 for dry rot and a weakness to occur, so no immediate consequence.
@@itscoconutsaregood just because its a softwood doenst mean it will rot quick, and if it gest wet the roof is leaking
@@meandnature6452 I agree and was not what I was trying to convey. A leaking roof is a different scenario. The effects of that are hit and miss. To clarify: half the year the UK during the evening is mostly near saturation point with moisture. Timber in unvented cold parts of a roof with a steady supply of warmer air (leaks from the rooms below) will create condensate which will linger for weeks if not months until the spring/summer. Year after year this eventually causes decay from plus 22% moisture content. it is a long term investment. I accept it may not always be appropriate for preservative and as you know, some species can tolerate high moisture.
@@itscoconutsaregood true, but with vaporbarriers and good ventilation i think it would be fine