THUMB Shooting with Joel Turner
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2020
- This week we're taking a closer look at thumb shooting with Joel Turner. Joel explains how and why he uses the thumb shooting technique, how he aims his recurve bow, and some of the potential advantages of shooting with his thumb.
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For many years I shot western recurve bows with split finger/arrow,left side. Then I tried a Turkish style bow with the arrow on the right and the thumb draw and I was totally sold. Just drawing up and shooting with an Asian style bow is a very special experience that I recommend everyone to try. For the last 3 years, more and more of my western bows have been hanging on the wall while I grab one of my Asian style bows when I go out to shoot. Great video and thanks for sharing.
I got a recurve instructor to give asiatic bows a solid try, basically 45 of me teaching him and him giving it a real try. He said it was definitely more fun than bare bow at least
I would love to see Clay Hayes, Joel Turner, and Armin Hirmer do a video together in Malta. That would be so cool.
From a maltese resident and a student of Armin i would love to see that
@@DucViper Lucky to be a student of Armin. It would be cool to meet him and be a student.
Maybe we should do a Gofundme for them so they can meet up.
And Lars Andersen.
That would be epic.
I'm kinda stoked for this video. Was waiting for the east and west to finally meet. I dont think we are done evolving archery.
i remember when i was like 10 i was first introduced to a release aid to the compound bow. then over time i learned about the thumb release an asiatic archery. now im doing an apprenticeship for a horn bow maker. thanks for the insight!!
Which one?
holidaythailand2010 jwb bows
how's the apprenticeship going?
Answered a few I the questions that kept coming to mind when I’d seen photos and videos of Joel shoot. Thanks guys.
Finally found someone who bought a left handend riser despite being right eyed! Great to see that this thing actually works, I'm still waiting the arrival of my new riser to shoot this way
I am a thumb archer, shooting Asian reflex bows (horsebows) from ground and horseback. I find it interesting to see an archer with a modern recurve bow practicing the same technique! Possibilities in archery are endless....
Two of my favourite guys...thanks for sharing 🏹
This is very interesting and I may try it. I remember reading "Ishi, the last wild Indian", and when I studied a bit about Ishi, I found out he shot right handed with the arrow on the right side of the bow I think. I will have to go back and check that out. The part I really am interested in is the 2.5 inches more of draw length. Maybe, I could shoot a lighter draw weight and get more arrow speed.
My man knows what I've been talking about for years! Thumb release is just on a whole other level, and I'm also glad how he mentioned how many Asiatic cultures shoot this way. It's not a coincidence that many cultures converged on the same shooting method if it isn't amazing, back then things like the proper method to shoot a bow could be the difference between life and death.
This is exactly how I shoot. I haven’t ever seen anyone else do this. I’ve been doing this for years. I also shoot Mediterranean with the arrow on the right side of the bow and pull back with the right arm.
So does this mean a right-handed person shoots a left-handed bow but you still draw the bow with your right hand I'm confused
@@mikekupetsky6879 yes sir
@@mikekupetsky6879 I got some videos demonstrating this. As well as this gentleman here
I shoot the same way. I had a custom bow built 6 years ago. The first bowyer I asked refused to build me one . A way smoother release
@@mikekupetsky6879
Sounds like kind of a pain, cause then youre only limited to thumb shooting that specific bow/riser unless you wanna shoot lefty
Love thumb release. Feels so natural. What bow is Joel using?
Love this video, helped tremendously
I really like your thumb draw setup. Thanks for the videos and hints!
I wish we could have seen you try it Clay!
Joel turner is a brilliant archer. As are you clay.
As a lefty this opens up a whole new avenue for me. Very interest to try this as I bow hunt and bowfish. And lord knows the average shops don’t prepare for us! That being said I have a nice stave down stairs I’ll be getting the drawknife out on soon
I’m a thumb shooter too. Love it.
Ishi (from South California) used his thumb and he even used side Kharta as well.
Ishi the famous Native American? You missed it by about three thousand miles, Ishi walked out of the California wilderness where he lived his whole life and died in Califonia without ever leaving that state.
@@samuelthomas9751 whoops my bad lol thanks for the correction
Great video. It would have been cool to see Clay try it out so we could get that perspective of trying it out for the first time. I've shot with my thumb a few times on my RH recurve, but I've been reluctant to buy a LH bow just to really try it out.
You can thumb draw lower that the arrow to the point where you don’t touch the arrow with a righ handed
Glad to see! I’ve crossed over to this style 2 yrs ago and haven’t looked back. Even modified my RH Wesley Special longbow with a sanded down wooden golf tee in order to make a small shelf to place arrow on opposite side. Shoots great! Waiting on my reverse handle LH longbow from northern mist to arrive in December. Also u can use leather from an old tab to make an oval thumb pad. Place that inside the thumb portion of a tighter batting glove and it stays put. Much better than a thumb ring bc u can still feel the string.
just make the switch to asiatic bows, they are lighter, faster, and have less hand shock and longer draws. what's not to like?
Great advice from 2 great archers :D
Nice video interesting mix of trad technique with modern bows
Imho: Thumb ring archery was essentially a manual release mechanism. The majority of Western hemishere archers stayed with finger release until mechanical releases.
I started with a "horse bow" with thumb draw and still own three of them. I only recently moved to a long bow with a "mediterranean" draw two months ago.
I love his open mind regarding other ideas of archery. Most people are terribly dogmatic in their views about archery.
I shoot thumb release from time to time with my Grozer Horsebow, but seeing this - I definitely have to try it with a lefty bow, cut to center. Thanks for the inspiration!
@Chris W i also wonder that how could a righter shot with a lefted bow ? maybe with a righted grip on it ?
Very interesting concept. Will have to look more into this.
Nate
If you want to have fun practicing this kind of shooting and others on the cheap grab a 60" Arc Rolan Snake Bow from Lancaster archery (or wherever, I think PSE has a similar"Snake" bow) for $45 bucks. It is tough plastic and ambidextrous (not center shot) but has built in arrow shelf. They are light draw so you can focus on process and release technique. Super fun little trainers. I am currently working on learning Slavic release (like 3finger on the draw hand side of bow rather than on bow hand side), learning khatra, and shooting ambidextrously to help with muscle balance. It is a fun humbling challenge. Highly recommend it.
Like a side-mounted scope on an old rifle, there would have to be some sort of offset adjustment at various distances to compensate for the 10/4 alignment of eye & arrow. That is, unless he shoots overspined arrows or builds out his strike plate a bit more. It might be an instinctive adjustment but it would still be there. I could never see the tip of my arrow at all when using this method -- it was completely obscured by the riser. Does he use full-length arrows?
I just bought a left handed black hunter longbow (inexpensive) and I am trying thumb release. This video inspired me to try it.
How'd it go?
@@GavanActon I still thumb shoot. The left handed black hunter works fine for this. I did a little sanding on the riser and now it feels pretty good. I am still not as accurate as I am mediterranean style though.
Nice! I just bought a left handed Buck Trail Antelope @40. Hoping I also have success.
Having to re-learn shooting a trad bow, might as well put this style to the test. I'm a lefty, so headed to your website to make sure i got this right.
its fun. with good khatra, you get to shoot wider range of spine. i shoot instinctive thumb release (no aiming) with my 50# bow and my arrows go from 600 to 400. still land all my arrows straight from 5 yds away and make a fist size group from 20 yds.
I’m a right handed shooter and I have both a left handed and right handed riser. I play around with both while shooting thumb draw. I love the control of shooting a lefty bow right handed with the thumb for the control. I also love shooting the righty bow right handed with the thumb too, but you need to use a fixed crawl to make it work. Very deadly.
I have been shooting thumb for years with right hand bow shooting right had. I use a leather tong off my middle fine that wraps around string and grip with my thumb. When I release, the leather acts like I have gripped the sting like someone shooting fingers. It perfect and my bow performs like it would with a mechanical release
Interesting.
Theres alot to learn in archery. I'm a beginner
love Joel Turner, even with his Me, Myself and Irene haircut
I started shooting this way a while ago, but with a right-handed bow. I had to string walk to place my hand below the arrow so it wouldn't be pressed to the left. But once I started doing this all my arrows in the group were so tight they all were touching each other and it felt a lot more natural to me. I just shot instinctively and then I did a robin hood and messed up an arrow really bad.
I might try this I have been shooting a left handed self bow for the past couple years and am just not happy with my sight picture and my for and strength is so much better when I shoot a right handed bow which I shot for many years before switching over to lefty. I will try this a time or two
I went from compound to recurve to horsebow. Horsebow is by far the best type of bow for all applications and by far the funnest one to shoot. Once you build your thumb muscle you would hardly pick up the other bows especially for recreational shooting. Why test science when you can test your instincts?
I totally agree with you coz I have had the same experience with Asian style bows since the first time I tried one 3 years ago. Today I shoot 80-90% 'horsebows and occasionally western recurve bows.
hi, sorry for that but, wich thumb muscle ? because there is no finger with any muscle ... so can you explain to me what you taught about that ?
@@daigans Have you asked yourself how you can clench your fist and lift a heavy weight if you do not have a muscle in any of your fingers?
@@comfusedpassanger3399 i do it's because of tendons in your fingers connected to your forearms muscles . so i keep saying there is no muscles in your fingers themself.
i'm not convinced a horsebow is the best type of bow for winning an olympic gold medal...
Good lesson
Never tried shooting Eastern style from a left hand bow. I’ve shot many horsebows and old dual-shelf fiberglass bows from the 60s like Ben Pearson and Paul Bunyan with this style and I always shoot an arrow that’s much, much stiffer than one that I would shoot off the left side, but I’ve always had much better results not even touching an anchor point at all, which I guess is why Joel uses a bow that’s cut to center, because he brings it to his face/head which brings the alignment straight, much like drawing an inch away from the head, but because you’re shooting a bow that’s not cut to center and you’re using khatra, the arrow flies straight anyways. Thanks Clay for sharing this with us. 👍🏼🏹🇺🇸
I dont cant the bow and have been Shooting Thumb draw this Year, with a Turkish and Mongolian Bows, neither of which has any rests or cutaways, simply bare bows, the Turkish is very short and took a while to shoot consistently, not tried with a cutaway bow, would make it easier I guess, but the fun has been learning to shoot these traditional pattern bows, just need a Horse now!
I shoot thumb release and I find myself agreeing with everything this guy says. Especially for a shorty like me (5'7"), I like that with thumb release, I can draw my bow out to 31" inches no problem, whereas with three finger release, I could only get to about 28". And I agree that with thumb release and the arrow on the far side of the bow, the draw cycle gets your shoulders into good alignment in a very natural way. I also find that it's easier to get a very crisp release using thumb draw, especially when you have a good thumb ring. The only drawback I found to thumb release is that there's a bit more of a learning curve to aiming since, as your guest says, you have to get used to having your eye at the 10 o'clock position and wrapping your mind around the fact that the arrow is offset slightly from line of sight. Although having said that, you do get the advantage of seeing the arrow's pitch, as your guest says, and that makes learning to judge the correct launch angle to hit a target at a given distance a bit easier.
I gotta try it
Getting back into archery, picked up a Sage and then a few vintage bows from FleaBay. I wanted to try thumb shooting so I grabbed a lefty riser for the Sage to shoot righty from 😅
cant wait to see more people hunting with eastern horse bows and breaking down techniques on the youtube
I started making bows before I knew much about shooting. I'm left handed in writing, and shooting a gun but I've always thrown a ball with my right hand which is my stronger arm. So I made myself a right handed bow and never realized until recently that my left eye dominance makes me se the side of the arrow. I shoot relatively well with my right handed bows, because I can see the launch angle. Because I'm so used to that i find it hard to shoot left handed with my eye directly over the arrow.
Could you please make a video on the pros and cons of titebond 3 vs hide glue?
Native Americans also shot thumb release. As well as many Polynesian tribes. And the Japanese, Koreans, and Mongols.
I've heard, but not confirmed, that this is a major pice of evidence confirming the bearing land bridge theory of migration, out of Africa, to Asia and Polynesia, through Mongolia, Siberia to Alaska and down to Modern Day Florida and Chile. This mostly took place 7,000-15,000 years ago, it would seem.
The Native Americans captured escaped horses, traded for them, or stole them from Spanish Conquistadors.
They immediately began shooting bows from horseback within a generation or two. Reaching a high level of horse-bow competence on the American great plains before it was settled.
Keep in mind: The Spaniards did not show them how to. Because the Spanish didn't know how, or had never developed the methods.
The Natives created their own bareback archery from scratch. And their Thumb-Release was the reason it came naturally to them, when the Spanish couldn't with their Medieval European three finger, opposite side of bow approach.
Hell Yeah!
I use thumb draw certain bows. Haven't thought about it with a long bow or recurve
Thanks for the video. I have a question about archer's paradox.
when it comes to compound bow shooting with a release, does it matter which handed bow I shoot?
So cool to see someone thumbdrawing a modern bow. I am saving up for a modern ILF hunting bow in LH (I’m a righty) and I was afraid it could be a failed experiment. Good to have confirmation.
Check out malta archery. He's did a vid a few weeks back with a ILF riser. Right handed with the shelf on the right for thump shooters
Great
Hmmm? Never thought of it, THANKS.
9:30 to 10 sight picture is about what I do with an old mod 97 no sight 12Ga. , and that works GREAT! my whole life! Why not an arrow? lead, drop, hold over, Kentucky windage may plug right into my head's ballistics calculater?
Thanks, going to try it.
nice...👍👍 mast try it....🏹
I’ve always done this naturally!!
yup
This is soooo intriguing to me!! I have to now set myself up to shoot exactly like Joel Turner!! I'm just seriously floored! Absolutely amazing!
What recurves with cutouts lend to shooting this style? Many have thumb and hand grooves as well as grip angles that make holding a bow with the opposite hand that it was intended for uncomfortable.
Does thumb shooting change the stresses at the shoulder? Had to, just, sit back and watch these vids because 1) no thumb rings at archery stores, 2) shoulder debilitation from back in the day (over 60 now).
Hey Joel, which short hunter bow will work at 30” draw? I’m looking into switching from a horsebow to a hunter but I want the same compact size. Any idea?
I love thumb draw, mostly the khatra you can do is very satisfying and you can hear the arrow doesn't scrape past the handle/riser.
As for aim, you'll get used to it.
I'd say when it comes to target shooting I'm still more accurate with 3 under.
But only slightly.
Thumb draw isn't inaccurate.
With Mediterranean your arrow shoots slightly left of center with trad bows (no center cut) if held vertical
Thumb draw would land slightly right of center.
(Slavic draw would land miles to the right XP)
Also the biggest plus side to thumb draw is the techniques of string twist and khatra, with those you don't only add speed to your arrows, you can also apply them for over or under spined arrows.
Your spine doesn't matter as much anymore.
You can make them fly straight with technique.
The Turkish bow ia the best one and known for the thumb release shooting from horses
Great vid as always! I am very interested in switching shooting my recurve to thumb shooting because of arthritis issues in my 60 year-old fingers. Can I get started with a righty bow? Even with access to a lefty, the grip doesn't work at all, again, arthritis. (Friends are suggesting I switch to a crossbow - snowy day in hell...) I can't see getting a lefty bow with a righty grip because of $.
You can get started on a right hand bow, just be conscious about putting pressure on the arrow with your finger as to not let it slip off the shelf. Also look into getting maybe a Korean military style thumb ring, or thumb rings in general, they're cheap.
You can use thumbdraw with rigthy bow, you can watch video how the modern mongol shoot. They use thumbdraw with arrow in the left side.
But make sure your index finger below the arrow, not to pinch it.
@@irzackihmj5259 Thanks, but I have traditional recurves with a right side window. Putting the arrow on the left will put the arrow shaft way far in that directions.
I've been playing with Asiatic bows this year, Turkish and Mongolian, for those interested in barebow shooting, they are great weapons, like anything new, took awhile to become consistent, but now I am good enough, at typical Hunting ranges, my Son is left handed so he can also use the same bow and just shoot the other side. In the UK, where I live bow hunting is illegal, but the Turkish could easily drop any game we have here. I posted a very amateurish video showing it, next bow will be from Grozer in Hungary at 80-90lb, that should put holes in things!
Hope you have good luck getting a bow from him, i think he may be a bit hard to deal with. I emailed him about getting one and they said they aren't making base bows.
I'll email and see what he says, what I am looking for isn't a basic bow anyway.
I've been shooting with thumb ring and I like it ,it requires more strength than fingers
The thumb is the strongest digit on your hand.
I just started archery I with my daughter, she wanted a bow for her birthday. We are both right eyed. I toke her to an archery store and bought her all of her equipment included was a righthand 20lb nighthawk recurve. Me being a diy guy wanted to make my own pvc bow which I still am, but I found a brand new 50lb left handed samick saga for $90. Long story short I bought the bow, I wanted us to stay "balanced" and I want to be able to legally take game in California. This is very interesting I will have to try this next time we shoot.
Try it clay!!!try it!!!you just might get it!!!I see people modified bow like onida..they cut a wee bit of the arrow rest then glue a piece of hard wood so just to make it like a horse bow grip...just to shoot with the thumb draw..you can easily make a horse bow with your talent skills...it's fun dynamic and it can be used for left or wright draw...no pressure just a bit excited to see try...he he
So do you use an opposite handed bow? I'm a left handed shooter so I would need a right handed bow for this correct?
I realize I'm posting on a video probably too old to get a response. What tiller do you need to get optimal performance for thumb shooting?
Is there a problem with shooting thumbdraw on the left side of the bow? I think thumb on left is the best combo
When shooting right handed with your mentioned method you won't be able to press the arrow with the index finger.
So im a lil confused as a right hand shooter do i get a left hand bow. Then hold it righthand with the arrow on the lefthand shelf. Thwnen draw with my thumb?
I wanted to have LH bow and shoot with thumb draw...👍👍👍
I'm interested in this. What bow is this?
After watching this video I'm convinced that thumbs are better than the other.
That just blows my mind. I am left eye 👁 dominate, but right handed. I tried to shoot my Dad’s right hand recurve lefty and the arrow just falls off
Nice video! If you want to see some serious thumb draw, then check out "Lars Anderson - A new level of archery". That guy rules!
He mainly uses Slavic draw, not the same, it uses fingers and the draw length is quite short. Lars does use other draws, but for speed shooting, mainly Slavic with wide nocks.
@@LOFIGSD Are you sure? How does Lars hold 11 arrows for his world record in draw hand, with slavic release?
@@chrisbavaria4187watch his last video and you can learn, you do know Slavic also shoots on right hand side of bow! if you want to learn, watch Mihai Cozmei, or if you are in England I could show you! Lars shoots with many techniques, both sides of the bow, I have noticed, he shoots thumb when he is going for accuracy, but not speed trick shooting.
Ok, well, I'll have to try that. I'm in southern Germany, but next time I'm in England, I'll stop by. 👍🏻
@@chrisbavaria4187 take a trip to Hungary or Romania, lots of good Archers and Bowmakers there, not too far from Bavaria.
Is it blackhunter longbow at video?
I shoot asiatic from time to time and i dont think its that radical, its just another style of archery, if it was you would see it in more western competitions. Asiatic archery has been around for a long time and is probably the most popular style in the world, just not the western world. He is right about it giving you more draw length though. Most draw lengths start from 30 inches and can go past 34 inches. One of the disadvantages i see of this setup is you cant use khatra.
Exactly how i shoot. But also slavic.
What's the riser he's mounted?
It has the largest sight window I've ever seen *-*!?
i gotta ask what riser is that?
Instinctive shooters, canting and with 3-finger, are still looking at a ramp. It's the ramp of your bow arm. Some may not realize it. It all become second nature when you don't overthink it 😛
No finger pinch issues and prob a bit more speed
As Meeting Turkish arrow strike style :)
Wait, if I shoot lefty, I would use a right handed bow?
The problem is that the grip is shaped for your other hand. It would require a custom made grip imho.
@@JSmithski In some cases, some bows have a decently neutral grip.
🇧🇷🏹❤️🏹❤️🎯🏹👍🤗👍 show my friends 🤗👍👍
"the paradox of the arrow"
Hi Clay, question for you. I read online that shooting lighter arrows can sometimes mean more hand shock. Is that true?
The answer is: Yes. The bow stores energy while you draw it back. This energy has to go somewhere and the only thing that can take the energy is the arrow. If the arrow is realy light the energy that cant be taken by the arrow stays in the bow and gives u a handshock. The badest thing that can happen is a dry fire like shot when the arrow is waaaay to light
Finn, thanks for sharing, that helps a lot. :)
Aaron
When you draw back your bow string a given distance, your bow has a given amount of energy stored in it that turns into kinetic energy when you release the string. That kinetic energy primarily flows to two places. One is moving the bow itself (the limbs, cams, string and all other moving parts). The other is moving the arrow. The heavier the arrow is, the larger the fraction of that energy that the arrow carries away is. As arrows get lighter, the larger the fraction of that energy is that goes toward just moving parts of the bow. If the arrow is light enough, by the end of the power stroke, the bow limbs, string and other moving parts will be going so fast that when they're brought to a screeching halt, the sudden deceleration will cause powerful vibrations in your bow that can literally shake your bow apart. These sudden vibrations are always present but get stronger as the arrow gets lighter. These vibrations are waves that tend to converge right where your bow hand is, and they are what you perceive has hand shock.
@@Marmocet cool, makes sense. Thanks for the info!
Jupp! Somebody get those three together.
What bow is that?
Shooting on the right side of the bow removes paradox. Or are all the asiatic horse style bows doing something wrong?
It seems like paradox would be worse.
Im actually shooting this style to start out because it feels natural to me and my left eye sux shit lmfao my right eye is dominant and shooting right handed traditional feels wrong naturally
What is Joel shooting?
I thought I read that Ishi shot right handed but from the right side of the bow?
Yes you did..He used a modified Mongolian thumb draw technique and used his middle finger of his left hand as an arrow rest,on the right side of the bow..The difference in his draw hand was,,he supported his thumb with his middle finger and placed his curled pointer finger on top of the shaft ahead of the nock..
He also drew to his chin,which was measured at 25"with his style..
So you just need an opposite handed bow but still draw with your normal hand?
Joel shoots a special custom bow that has a right handed handle but a left handed shelf. So no you could just pick up a left handed bow and do this, as it wouldnt fit properly in your hand.
Lost 화살 thank you 🙏
Also, why the hell does he wear his suspenders that way?? 😭
I'm only after seeing that. I wonder does he know
Strap would not get caught on the string?
can ye pull 120lb bow?? is it safe?
Not me
So it’s a left-handed bow with a grip from a right-handed bow?? 🤔
Can you string walk with this method?
If the bow's limb is long, yes we can string walk. If using small horsebow, no we can't string walking.
Most horsebow archer use face walking instead.
@@irzackihmj5259 I've got 2 Asiatic Bows, a very short Turkish one, which string walking does not work well on and a longer Mongolian one which is possible, and I had play around practicing, but tbh, I mainly use these for shorter ranges < 40 yds and thumb draw practice.
i made my own bows when i was a kid / teen , always learned thumb shooting so its awkward for me to get back into the sport and see others using it on the inside... thumb die hard, not going back