Miller's Crossing: A Handsome Movie About Homosexuals (sort of)
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2020
- Without question, one of my favorite filmmaking teams is the #CoenBrothers. There’s an indefinable quality that runs throughout their work-it’s like their own genre of #filmmaking. It can be silly and absurd, then turn pitch black. It can incorporate surreal imagery into slapstick comedy. It can be a Western-Horror movie with an arthouse sensibility. And, in the case of Miller’s Crossing, it can be a violent, Prohibition-era gangster film with homosexual characters. #FilmAnalysis
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A bit of side trivia: J. E. Freeman, who played the Dane, was openly gay himself, as was Jon Polito, who played Johnny Caspar. (R.I.P. to both of them.)
Two of those freaks less - that's good news!
Both guys were outstanding character actors
Jon Polito gay? Get the f@ck outta hee-ah
Everyone in Hollywierd is gay
"why would einstein wanna talk to a gorilla? so i grabbed the gorilla and i beat it out of him".. i lol at that line every time even after seeing this film 50 times
There are actually two love triangles in the movie. One straight (Leo, Verna, Tom) and on gay (Dane, Mink, Bernie). They are like parallel universes, opposing forces. Characters like these are why the Coen brothers are my favorite living writer/directors. It deeply saddens me that they say they are about done making movies.
There's also the triangle between Tom, Dane, and Caspar. In that one, Tom seduces Caspar away from his most loyal friend, only to betray him. And Dane sees it happening, but doesn't see how far Tommy has gotten his hooks into Caspar till it's too late. The ultimate femme fatale of the story is definitely Tom, seducing Johnny Caspar and then destroying him.
I just don't believe Dane, Mink and Bernie is a "love triangle", this video is overselling the importance of Bernie's sexuality (and sexuality in general). Bernie doesn't love or care about Mink, he has him "jumping through hoops" as Tom puts it, or, as Bernie himself says "You can't have too many" (friends). The fact that Bernie might be gay or bi or whatever is a minor character detail, what is far more important is that he is a manipulative and explotitive liar
@@steveblundell7766 True, it's not a proper love triangle, just a grift. But then again, Verna is a grifter too. She isn't stepping out with Leo out of love. In fact, she's probably not sleeping with Tom out of love either. It's an angle. So that's not a proper love triangle either.
My point is, it took some delicacy to sidestep the traditional trope that automatically paints Bernie's queerness as part of his evil. And from a standpoint of movie tropes, they didn't quite manage it perfectly. There's a pretty unpleasant standard in films until the 80s, that any gay characters in crime films always seem to end up dead. And at the end of Miller's Crossing, the straight "love triangle" all end up alive, while all the gay characters end up dead.
So while their queerness isn't treated as necessarily degenerate, they still suffered the same fate as all gay characters in this kind of film. This is, in my opinion, why you have to try a little harder to avoid cliches. They have an insidious undertow.
@@rottensquid Well Verna kind of admits she doesn't love Leo .. when she is speaking to Tom about Leo she says "I _like_ him", meaning she thinks he is a decent person because of how he treats her, and, by implication, she doesn't think so highly of Tom. But her feelings for Tom are different, or were until her brother was killed. Tom can get to her emotionally. And remember, she was ready to leave town with Tom.
By the way, the term 'queer' in Miller's Crossing means something totally different to how you are using it, Tom uses the term to mean a disruption or a complication, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.
Gay characters have always been common in gangster films, but in Millers Crossing they are more nuanced and humanized than normal. Mink proves ideal for exploitation because of his sexual orientation and the Dane is loyal to Mink because they are in a relationship. But the Dane is also loyal to Caspar, just for different reasons. Note that there is no relationship of any kind between Mink and Caspar - the triangle simply doesn't exist. So Tom is able to exploit this situation, principally because he knows and understands the relationships and the types of loyalties that are at stake.
As for who ends up dead, well Caspar was not gay and he also ended up dead, so its not as simple as attributing it to their sexual orientation. Tom ends up alone, I don't see that as any kind of triumph for being straight either. As for Bernie, I don't accept that his sexual orientation is in any way important or even clear cut. His sister calls him "different" but nobody bats an eyelid about the Dane and Mink, so its not his sexual preferences that make him different, its his degenerative personality.
@@steveblundell7766 Sure, I see all that. To clarify, I was using queerness in the modern sense, as a means of discussing the way LGBTQ+ people were depicted in film until very recently. It's worth noting that no gay character in the story gets out alive, which is part of the problematic issue. And I include Bernie here, because whatever his orientation, it's undeniably under the LGBTQ+ umbrella. Of course, their deaths were all a natural part of the storytelling, and it made sense for the story, irrespective of the sexual orientation of those characters. But that's the thing about subtext. There's always an in-story reason for the overwhelming trend, but that doesn't excuse the trend. It's like with the Bechdel test. Stories that fail the test aren't bad stories, and they're not doing anything wrong. It's just a way to point out a problematic trend.
It's nice to see gay characters that are just as irredeemable as every other character in the movie.
they already irredeemable by default just kidding
It's odd you didn't pick up on Bernie being homosexual until watching the commentary since it was kind of a major plot point that the Mink scene reveals.
And not a word about Marcia Gay Harden who completely stole the movie.
Ooh, that’s debatable. I would argue every supporting character steals every scene they’re in: Harden, Polito, Turturro, Buscemi! What a cast!! Freeman is overshadowed by Polito mostly, but he’s also amazing.
millers crossing is the kind of film I imagine the future of film as whole would look like if queer characters were normalized and not a constant culture war battleground. it adds such an interesting layer to this kind of story that is already a dense network of relationships and rivalries
Then normalize them, FFS!
I am sick and tired of glorifying them, only because they're not right in the head.
There's probably a reason why one has to consciously push the normality of queers. And queers are not gay by today's standards
i mean almost any character in any movie could be gay or bi and you never would have known it. most of the time there would be no reason for the movie to mention it. you could imagine almost any movie character as being bi and it wouldnt change the movie , so the future world youre imagining already existed the whole time in a way
@@OGRE_HATES_NERDS queerness being invisible is not the same thing as being normalized
@@lt3880but crying about it is TOTALLY normal
I am pretty sure Ferris Bueller was narrating this review ….uncanny.
Movies move pretty fast. If you don’t stop to think about them you can miss things.
Maybe the idea is this. In a movie about criminals-tough criminals-during a time when homosexuality was a crime, perhaps their sexual lives offered an additional layer in the fabric of their criminality. And since they were tough criminals, too, their sexuality did not weaken them.
That is too simplistic, since Mink's sexuality certainly _does_ weaken him, it allows for him to be manipulated and exploited by Bernie, who kills him as soon as it is useful to do so
Fantastic critique of probably my favorite Coen Brothers movie.
This is such a brilliant movie. I've loved it since I was a kid, even when I didn't understand what was going on. I noticed the gay characters the first time I saw it (I was 11), but it was so unconventional the way they were presented I wasn't really sure of what I was seeing. I say unconventional, but what I mean is they're real characters, not simplistic devices. Often gay characters are just there for someone to pity; they certainly can't be villains. But just about everyone EXCEPT Leo and Caspar is a villain in Miller's Crossing. Tom is just caught in the middle, doing what he can to get by. I love it.
Cool essay. Subtle is the word I would use to describe this movie- so much is buried in the layers of its beautiful dialogue, rendering finer plot points like the Bernie/Mink/Dane love triangle easily missed. I did get it the first time I saw the movie, but it took me a while to be sure I had it right. And though it's a smaller part of a complex narrative, I think it adds a lot- it humanizes these characters, for one, and definitely explains certain motives (why Mink killed Rug, the Dane's violent treatment of Tom when he figures out Mink is dead). Considering the time the movie was written, I'd dare to call it progressive- these nuanced, interesting characters are neither vilified for nor defined completely by their sexuality, they just are who they are. Good work on putting this analysis together.
Oh. 100% progressive. Even for a supposedly progressive Hollywood
If it was a 'love triangle' why did Bernie kill Mink as soon as it was useful to do so? Why did Bernie pretty much admit to Tom that he was a friend to Mink because "you can't have too many (friends)"? Didn't look like there was much love going on, just manipulation and explotation
Love this movie! Great video, man. :)
Just love the early 30s slang woven into the brilliant dialogue in this great film
I am not sure Eddie Dain is more menacing than Luca Brazzi, but, hey, dealer’s choice. As to the subtext of homosexuality, WHAT FILM WERE YOU WATCHING the first time you saw it? “Mink is Eddie Dain’s boy?” “I don’t figure the Dain for the forgiving type”. Clear as mud, indeed.
thats incredibly vague. calling someone your "boy" is not an implication of a romatic relationship by any means. thats a huge assumption for the audience to make and i think its completely understandable that most people dont pick it up on first viewing
That bit I took as Mink, he's the Dane's lapdog, will do as he's told. But the Bernie bit where he's talking about his sister trying to save him from his friends, hilarious that went right over my head until just now, 30 years later.
@@prairiedogsareextant The movie was a love story about men in love: Mink and Eddie, Mink and The Schmata Kid, Leo and Tom, the former being a father/son love story.
It took me several views as well to realize they’re gay characters. In my defense, I was young and naive in 1990. 😊
Leo and Dane were the best. If they were on the same side no way anyone could take that town from them
as a queer trans person I now have more love for Millers and appreciate it more. Im writing a crime drama centering a queer man
I always believed it was to make it seem like an old gangster movie. Dashiell Hammet also had gay characters in his stories that you had to be in-the-know to see.
Gay characters have always been common in gangster films, but in Miller's Crossing they are more nuanced and humanized than normal
How did you not know the Schmatta was gay? There was nothing "vague" about it.
There’s also nothing OBVIOUS about it. Turturro doesn’t play up any gay stereotypes, nor is there any on-screen PDA. I saw it in 1990 and I didn’t know at the time.
The Schmatta's sexuality is unimportant. If Bernie was straight I can believe he would happily pretend to be gay if he could profit from it. Much more relevent is that he was prepared to use Mink's sexuality to exploit him and then remove him when the time is right. Bernie exploits Tom in a similar way, but rather than using Tom's sexuality as leverage, he takes advantage of the fact that Tom is a thinker rather than a killer.
It took me a second go-round to pick up the love triangle between Mink, Eddie, and Bernie. But it was 1990, and I was a bit naive about that kind of thing. I think the Coens were doing a riff on the way queerness was depicted during the Hayes code era. In fact, the whole movie was heavily inspired by 1942's Glass Key, to the point that Joel Coen calls it a rip-off. In Glass Key, there's a character somewhat similar to the Dane, who makes some pretty blatant innuendo about being into rough trade, and suggests the protagonist may feel the same way. The implication being there will be an unmistakably sexual component when it comes time to rough the protagonist up.
One thing I really appreciate about Miller's Crossing is, though most of the gay characters are also pretty reprehensible people, the one is never conflated with the other. The Coens deftly keep those lanes separate, unlike the Glass Key and most films of that era, which usually equate gay desires, or any kind of non-normative sexuality, with moral degeneracy.
I don't see either Mink or Dane as reprehensible. Mink is being exploited by Bernie and its easy to see why.
The Dane is dangerous and ruthless (these are gangsters by the way) but he is fiercely loyal to Mink and Caspar and he doesn't trust Tom, and is right not to. Bernie is certainly reprehensible but his sexuality is irrelevent, much more pertinent is that he is prepared to exploit the sexuality of others in order to benefit himself.
When Tom came into the room and all the women ran out, you can see Leo in drag cross his heart and run out in a dress lol
It's Leo in drag , Albert Finney
Ok thanks
@@aceklankb No problem 👍🏻
I rented this when it was new, and couldn't make head nor tail of the intricacies of the plot. 2 or 3 viewings later and I finally started getting it. Now, after dozens of viewings, I love it more than ever. I did pick up on the gay aspects of it, but now I find myself wondering about Albert Finney's portrayal of a matron in the bathroom scene where Tom confronts Verna (you can see him cross himself and leave when Tom bursts in). Was that supposed to be Leo in drag, leading a secret life?
There was nothing vague about the relationships bw Mink/Bernie Mink/the Dane. Also, the final frames of the movie revealed Tom's love for Leo in a way that made me revisit the entire film with fresh eyes. Tom obviously was doing it all, all his scheming was for Leo the entire time. Unfortunately, Leo's "betrayal" by not taking Tom's advice and booting Tom out for Verna broke their relationship. (and why was he sleeping with Leo's girl to begin with, hmm? ) Despite Leo asking him back, Tom knew Leo didn't share his feelings. That's why he's so heartbroken at the end.
I don't think that it is that simple, it seems to me that Leo and Tom loved each other, but it is not unusual for heterosexual men to love each other, especially if they have been through a lot. Remember Tom says he "doesn't always know why he does things", but he seems to put pride above everything else and that might have something to do with him not going back to Leo. I'm not convinced he even knows himself
@@steveblundell7766 I wasn't implying Leo and Tom were in a sexual relationship, just that Tom was devoted to Leo and that was his motivation in the film.
Absolutely......nice
I strongly disagree with the idea that nobody cares about the Dane being gay. In fact, people caring very much IS actually part of why Caspar trusted Tom over someone he's had at his side for years. The movie mocks Johnny's ethics as being backwards and nonsensical within the ten minutes. He also casually calls Bernie derogatory Jewish names. Part of his dislike for bernie isn't just because of he does. It's because of what he IS.
The reason he actually believes in the possibility that Dane might be a double-crosser in the first place despite no evidence isn't because he's reactionary to even the possibility. It's because. In this world. 'Well. you know. If he's gay, then obviously he's more capable of it than other 'normal' people.' Your sexual preference in this world ABSOLUTELY determines your character in other people's minds.
People finding gay people degenerate and inferior/immoral is actually a core part of the movie that's repeatedly underscored by the language used to describe them. someone honest is a 'straight-shooter, and someone gay is someone queer, womanly. And women in this world are also called frails.
You could interpret all the gay characters being the way they are as a response to how the world and language around them describes them. Dane has a short fuse, and overcompensates by being a goddamn monster that subverts all the tropes about that that exist in the world of Miller's Crossing.
Bernie leans into all of it out of spite. John Turturro does such a good job acting out suppressed rage and anger in everything Bernie says. In one of the clips you showed of him claiming his sister tried to sleep with him, it's so clear how bitter and angry he is that from his perspective, even his own sister doesn't accept his queerness. That gay people are seen as so crooked and evil in this world that his own sister may have tried to sexually assault him out of a misguided belief she'll convert him into being straight and therefore saving him. Even everything else aside, Verna's own words about saving him says all you need to know about how this world really treats gay people. This world calls Bernie immoral and degenerate, while the society is run gangsters. And morality is decided on those gangsters. It's all out there said straight form the first ten minutes of the movie by Johnny.
And the more 'moral' thing to do is to try to "sleep" with your own sibling to save him from homosexuality. Bernie leans into all the stereotypes about both gay people and Jewish people out of pure spite. He can't stand the indignity. The inhumanity. It's also his downfall since the same attitude and anger at Tom prevents him from leaving town.
The Mink is difficult. We don't see much of him so maybe this isn't necessarily true but he copes homophobia by running his mouth and simply saying very rapidly that Bernie is a straight-shooter. Of course him doing so and the way he does so is framed as making him look even more desperate, and sketchy.
And if Tom is queer, he stays in the closet. Him being in the closet protects him from having to be as vicious as Dane, from being as bitter as Bernie, and from being as desperate as Mink.
Buuuut--out of all of them he's still most similar to the Dane. They have the same jobs working under different people, and their own outsiderness allows them to see all the angles that other people don't.
A running joke is that Tom keeps on expecting the worst out of people in moments where he didn't need to, leading him to cross some societal or physical taboo, leading to the recurring "jesus tom" from other people who are always like holy shit man why are you so metal. The only other person who's tom's counterpart in this is the Dane by his sheer physical ruthlessness. But he's also one of the people who comes closest to seeing right through Tom. And what does he say about Tom? "You're so goddamn smart. Except you ain't. I get you, smart guy. I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE. STRAIGHT AS A CORKSCREW. Mr. Inside-outsky". This isn't the only time other minorities call out Tom in some way or other either.
The other person who nearly sees through Tom is Bernie. He sees through his machinations at least, but in the moment when he was about to be shot at the crossing, he said every desperate thing possible to try to change Tom's mind. What does he say? "They can't make us do this. It's the wrong situation. They can't make us different people from who we are" sure. he could be using 'we' and 'us' as a way to try to get Tom to identify with him. Almost definitely. But I think he also clocked Tom as an outsider like him, or at least very similar to himself in other ways. "I used information as a chisel". Just like Tom. "It's my nature" And even here, when he's mostly terrified, you can still see the anger and outrage. that He refuses to die like a dumb animal and be labeled as subhuman.
The last person who nearly sees through Tom, at least his heart, is Verna. Because her interpretation of his dream is actually really accurate. But the moment where everything seems to align with what happens in the dream is the last scene, and the thing representing the hat is Leo, not Verna.
Tom's machinations seem like a shock and a mystery to almost everyone. Except for all the characters that the world of Miller's Crossing categorizes as queer or frail. They are also the main agents who have the most agency in the movie. I don't think any of that is a coincidence.
Granted, I am biased. Because if I had to write an more in-depth essay about Miller's Crossing. I'd say that Miller's Crossing is a movie about how conversion therapy does not work through the aesthetics of a gangster movie. If the movie was trying to say something about how people treat gay people in the real world, then it's telling that the first thing the movie says is that the world is rotten and the way it's run is decided by gangsters.
It's also not a coincidence that Tom systematically kills or is partially responsible for the death of every gay person in the movie. One of his main goals is to excise his own queerness out of himself. It does not end well for anyone except for the character who embodies heteronormativity the most: Leo. And that's part of Tom's design. But it doesn't end well for him either.
On top of the bloodshed, by the end, he didn't even succeed in stop being some kind of queer himself. He may have claimed he's removed his own heart. He might have 'broken up' with Leo. He might refuse to chase after his hat. he might even tip his own hat down to cover his eyes so he can't see Leo going away. But he will always tip it back and look, with that sappy and romantic orchestral score swelling around him. The track that at least for composer Carter Burwell, embodied for him the love Tom has for Leo. And it's that longing look that the movie ends on. No matter how hard you try, even if you use violence, Bernie's words are right. You can't convert someone into being straight.
really good analysis, thanks
The hat analogy makes sense as Verna wins it in a card game and Tom goes after it. The hat is Leo in the clutches of Verna.
Although I always viewed it as a death scene, Tom claims it’s ridiculous for a man to chase his hat although he does that very thing when it’s missing. Tom awakens after seeing his hat blown away and not being able to retrieve it, which means he is dying or dead. At best Tom may be bisexual since he beds Verna, if only to glean information from her and sully her reputation later to Leo.
To me Mink is the innocent one, other than accidentally killing Rug out of fear of the Dane finding out about his dalliances with Bernie. He may be the only character who doesn’t kick Tom’s ass at some point.
That is one hell of an analysis.
I pretty much disagree with almost everything you have said (just as I disagree with this video) but everyone is entitled to interpret a movie any way they wish. All I will say is that gay characters are very common in gangster films, although they are more nuanced and developed in Miller's Crossing than in most. I see their sexuality in MC as the _least_ interesting thing about them, because it really functions as a plot development based on character relationships. So the Dane (a ruthless but loyal character) has two key relationships; to Caspar he is a loyal lieutenant whereas to Mink he is loyal lover. But we never see him with Mink. The details of their relationship are unimportant. We only need to understand why he is loyal to Mink and how this loyaly is understood by other characters (in particular, Bernie, Tom and Caspar, who all appreciate its significance to themselves in slightly different ways). Bernie's sexuality is also unimportant. What matters is how he is able to take advantage of Minx's sexuality to exploit him. But he takes advantage of almost all of the other characters in different ways, so I don't see why his sexuality is any more noteworthy than what Caspar calls his lack of "ethics". And three of the straight characters (Tom, Leo and Verna) function the exact same way as Dane, Mink and Caspar, in that their sexuality only partly determines their relationship to other characters and this is how the plot moves along. So Leo is loyal to Verna and Tom but for different reasons and Verna is both controlled and swayed by her very different feelings for Leo, Tom and Bernie. And finally I would say the complex character of Tom is far more significant than the fact that a couple of characters are gay. His unspoken feelings for Leo and Verna push the film way beyond superficial sexuality and are dictated by a mixture of pride, loyalties and the fact that "nobody knows anybody ... not that well." And these are the deeper themes that I believe the movie is playing with.
You know...when a movie is good, see....I mean like real good...no one really needs to deconstruct it. Aside from the odd wierdo seeking to punctuate a mushroom cloud with a half-ass smoke ring.
My favorite Coen brothers movie despite them calling it a rip off (from the Glass key)
this movie is correlated to the bible and the “vintage” dialogue was using more surreal words and sentencing to purposefully hint at it. you’ll even realize it the second u see why they named each character the way they did
Ii did not see this as an important part of the movie at all
I had no idea!!
Why does Dane want to kill Bernie at the start if they are in a relationship?
The Dane was in a relationship with Mink. Mink cheated on the Dane with Bernie.
They're not. Dane wants Bernie dead 'cause he's beddin down w/ his boy Mink.
Dane wants to kill Bernie because that is what Caspar wants
As a former addict who’s bi who was in the streets I can say rn being gay is not how you want to be seen in that environment.
That must have been tough I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're in a better place now.
And the Tom and Leo relationship is very ambiguous too, even in the novel that inspire the movie, The Glass Key by Dashiell Hammet.
Absolutely. Tom sacrificed so much for Leo as well. The way Tom took a last glance at Leo as he slowly walks away says so much about how he feels about Leo.
Maybe Finney in drag wasn’t a lark. It may have been an undertone for his relationship with Tom.🤔
@@jt1929 I absolutely think Tom was in love with Leo and the reason he refuses Leo at the end is because Leo takes Verna back. No hope there.
@@cynsabonorris1924 But Tom was in a relationship with Verna, and that is the relationship he lost.
He could have got back with Leo (he was asked to) but chose not to for reasons unclear
Likely that Tom and Leo loved each other as friends, but the way Tom behaved at the end is consistent with his character .. he is smart but has such a "I don't need anybody" attitude. Verna even says he takes pride in it.
@@steveblundell7766 Leo betrayed Tom when he chose Verna over Tom -- Tom was betting that him revealing he was sleeping with Verna would make Leo would see she was trash. The only possible reason he would have for revealing that information was to save Leo by making him dump Verna, give up Bernie finally, and restore the balance with Caspar. Everything Tom does afterward is to put Leo back on top (and to save his own skin) but Tom can't swallow his pride in the end and accept Leo's offer, not when Verna is still there between them.
I mean..how does someone miss that so many characters were gay? You must have been caught up in the scene and clothes but I pay attention to the words of all their films and to me, it's pretty obvious the characters are plenty gay and yes - nobody cares at all. That's another reason why I love this movie. They allowed their gay characters to be full, flawed people in ways that had nothing to do with their sexuality. I saw it in 1990 for the first time and it was far ahead of it's time.
Dane = in a loving relationship with Mink
Mink = in a loving relationship with Dane, but has been 'seduced' by Bernie
Bernie = exploits Mink's sexuality purely for his own gain
That's really all people need to know
This video made me really think about the ending, and if you think about it there is something that makes sense once you realise what's happening between characters. Think of it this way, there isnt 1 love triangle but 2. Who is in the second triangle? Leo, Tom and Verna. Tom goes through this whole plan for Leo, yet turns down working for him at the end, why though?
Is it because Leo is going to marry Verna. Yes, but not for the reason you think. I believe that Leo and Tom are in some sort of loving relationship, or at the very least Tom is in love with Leo. You think the whole way through the movie that Tom loves Verna, as he seemingly does many things to protect her. Yet he kills her brother at the end with little remorse. He did ALL of this for Leo, and the big stab in the back at the end of the movie for him is Leo saying he is going to marry Verna, so he declines to work for him. If you view the movie from this standpoint, most of his characters actions make sense. He goes through this elaborate plan just to see Leo come out on top, and fucking Verna is only the catalyst for his plan to unfold. Notice the lack of emotion he truly has for Verna.
I mean, nothing confirms it but I think its a solid theory that would explain the ending, and give more context to Tom's character motivations. Also with the Coen Brothers history of writing and their love for irony, it feels very fittingly ironic for a Mob boss's right hand man to be in love with him. Either way, great video and I'd love to hear your thoughts on my theory.
spot on. Tom was in love with Leo and sleeping with Verna to a) be closer to Leo; and b) get her away from Leo. Everything Tom does in the film is for Leo. Those final frames where Tom finally shows his eyes beneath the brim of his hat...so much love there.
We don't know that Tom "went through this whole plan for Leo". He even admits that he doesn't always know why he does things, which is a key difference between Leo and himself. You have to remember that there was no "plan" as most of the direction of travel was dictated by Bernie, and this meant Tom had to think on his feet. Tom had no idea what he was doing, but he was smarter than everyone else and knew how to take advantage of almost every situation as it developed. As for why he turned down working for Leo, this is a difficult question to answer but it is consistent with his character, he always seemed to take the 'proud' option, the one that gave him the most independence and emotional distance. Although I believe he loved Leo, this was a heterosexual love (strong friendship), but he never fully allowed himself to trust anyone completely, so he is a very complex character and difficult to read
The beauty of this film was sexuality was normalised where no-one hid it ... very much as it was then and within many cultures... don't ask and don't say. Nevertheless, it also discounts tge saying "light on one's feet" or the stereotypical effeminate male outlook ... gay people can be rough n tumble tough like any individual, opposing the "Sissy Boy" label. A film way ahead of its time and true to itself .... but also asks the question ... at which point does loving the same sex become gay ? 🤷♂️
An obvious answer I would have thought, if men are sexually attracted to each other then it is fair to say they are gay or at least bi. But heterosexual men can love each other their whole lives without a single sexual thought crossing their minds
A favorite movie. . . But I never thought that Bernie is gay like the Dane or Mink in this movie. . He's simply opportunistic, mean, and cynical imo.
Definitely. He exploits four characters (Mink, Verna, Caspar and Tom) for his own gain, but he takes advantage of them all in different ways
The dane . You know he sa in prison
You made this review as a queer theory film? I don’t get it.
Nor do I. It doesn't even matter if Bernie was gay or not, the important thing is that he was exploiting Mink's sexuality, but throughout the film Bernie takes advantage of almost all the other characters in different ways
You say that the homosexuality makes no difference in the movie, yet you make a logically unnecessary video that does nothing but call attention to it.
He also claimed "homophobia" was the norm in 80s-90s America. But that's not even a real thing, it's just the same delusion they're pretending now.
Yet you watched it and cared enough to comment. Go eat something, you are crankie little fella
It's really just a way of moving the plot along by establishing character relationships
marcia gay harden.. yummy
Straight man but this is easily one of my favourite films. I also think that Tom and Leo have some homosexual overtones especially at the ending. Leo begs him to come back into his life. “I need you.” Tom sends him away. But then in the final shot he’s barely holding back tears.
Men can be that way with each other without being gay.
Way too simple way of looking at it. Tom shows zero sexual interest in anyone other than Verna, but he definitely flirts with pride, loyalty and principles in a way that cannot be ignored in that final shot, even if it defies an explanation
No.
How does this theory explain:
-Dane was more mad about Tom trying to outsmart him than Mink's death.
-Dane was unable to recognize the dead body of his "lover", even without a face. Keep in mind that this theory necessitates that this guys is leading a mafia war because he is jealous and heartbroken.
-literally no romantic implications outside of the Verna love triangle. Amigo is a common jargon to refer when people are cooperating and doing business together.
The strongest evidence is that "Mink is Dane's boy" line, and even then a romantic relationship never crossed my mind. English is not my first language so I could be wrong, but I've never heard of a gay boyfriend being referred as "somebody's boy", it often refers to somebody's son or brother.
I saw it as Dane seeing Mink as family, and that Tom was trying to suggest Dane was going out with Verna.
It's not a theory, it's a major plot point. Saying that is like saying Gozu is a movie about two friends and a girl. When Tom says, "...when love is involved," the look on Caspar's face and his response confirms it. Hell, when Tom even brings up the Dane in that scene, Caspar puts his hat on; when a character has a hat on, they're thinking logically. Tom makes an accusation that the Dane is looking to cross Caspar, and Caspar has to think about it, bc it might be true. Caspar isn't all the way sold that the Dane is on his side bc of Mink. And everyone knows about Bernie, and his weird sister that tried to teach him "bedroom artistry," to "save" him from his friends. Queer people would have to stick together in that world, and that's how Caspar is seeing it, bc that's how shit goes down; when your back is against the wall, you stick with your own (hell, it's why there are Irish and Italian mobs in the first place). Caspar takes out Dane in the end bc he thinks Mink is still alive and working with the Dane, and he knows Mink is the only guy the Dane would cross Caspar for.
@@TheDrLeviathan I slept my way through Gozu so I don't really know what it's all about, but I did enjoy some of the unhinged imagery, Miike's seem to be either a hit or a miss. Not long after writing this I found out that the Coens spoke about the homosexual relationship in a press conference, so I stand corrected. I also noticed a more compelling scene that no one talks about when discussing this, when Tom is joining Caspar he tells The Dane that Mink might be in Bernie's room and that they are cozy "not just in business". I do have to push you back a bit, I never saw any of this "queer people sticking together" nor is this implied as being the friends of Bernie. Leon is considered a friend too, doesn't mean he was a homosexual. The obvious answer is that Bernie's "friends" are his associates in hustling, he offered that friendship to Tom too. Moreover, The Dane doesn't seem to belong to this gay subculture, and Bernie had no problem killing Mink when it benefitted him.
In the DVD commentary they explicitly say there is a love triangle between these characters. I'm sorry you don't want it to be true but it is what it is
@@spacewooly i already acknowledged it. What I don't want it to be true, and it isn't, is that they were in the gay subculture of relentless and obscene behavior, which is what the video inserts.
@@Erl0sunglol ok dude,the gay stuff would be the obscene part of their lifestyle sure
The most obvious fact about the theme of the story is that the main character’s name is Reagan, and the movie was made in 1987. It’s a pretty in-your-face tell about the underlying meaning. Reagan had been an FDR Democrat, went to Hollywood where he encountered communists and other very left wing people, and became a Republican. He often said, “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me”.
Map that onto the characters, and it explains itself. In ways that 2023 sensibilities might find uncomfortable. Sorry to break it to you, but the gay characters are not intended to be sympathetic. This is the underworld of organized crime, and they’re the worst, most untrustworthy, unstable characters in the film. They’re con artists and/or psychopaths. It’s not that “nobody cares”, it’s that the characters are all jaded and cynical, in film noir/mob movie fashion. Tom is initially sympathetic to them (or at least tolerates them because of Velma), and then turns on them once Velma and Leo turn on him. Turturro’s constant backstabbing and manipulation and Velma’s betrayal is what sends him over the edge. The ending seems justified within the context of the film. Tom is too naive and trusting, and pays for it as everyone betrays him. He’s trying to protect Leo and Velma from these shady new players (the Italians and the gays, to put it bluntly in the old school vernacular), and it does him no good. So he finally says “to hell with all of you”.
Anyway, Leo is FDR, and Tom is Ronald Reagan. Fill in the blanks from there. The subtext is blatant, and it’s political, not sexual. Except to the degree that Reagan was seen as unsympathetic to AIDS and so forth. It seems pretty clearly to be the Coen brothers’ metaphorical take on Reagan’s biography.
Wtf, i never noticed that.
Thank you for the heads up.
I can now avoid this movie, and not be sullied by it's depiction of sexual perversion.
Lol 3 gay characters and they’re all antagonists and killed violently on screen. Hays code 101.
"Haze ode 101" lol wut, do you mean Hayes Code??
@@hetmanjz no hays code
@@TheNopeDude Damn, I know that's the right spelling and I blew it.
I always thought the Coen Bros were one of the absolute best at creating a universe that felt 100% real. For example, when I watch Fargo, I imagine that world actually existed back in the late 80s, with those characters occupying it and everything. They get every last little detail right and make it believable.
Wow, M'sC is somewhat gratuitously violent and the dialogue is Righteously Out of the Park! The story is driven by two over-Lapping Love Triangle 📐 a Star of David of romantic-intrigue, and betrayal. (Spoiler: People get quadruple-crossed! ) Bernie is no more despicable than the other Business Men around Him, his only motivation seems to be to survive. The Dane i'll need to re-watch it, but yeah He's good and Lives by His Own Rules in defiance of Others' prevailing potentially-violent Prejudices. That's admirable, not to be brain-washed when everyone else seems to be...
Tom is the main character but ironically devoid of ethics or Loyalty to anyone except His Own Ego.
Tom is a complex character and, as a gangster, it is not surprising he does some questionable things, but I don't see him as being "devoid of ethics". He refuses to let Leo pay off his debts even though it would save him a beating. When he tells Leo he has been sleeping with Verna and Leo kicks him out, he says he and Leo "are through", which is something he sticks to, even though he still cares for Leo and has the opportunity to work for him again. Finally, if he just shot Bernie in the woods (something he believed in the first scene was the right thing to do) he would have saved himself a hell of a lot of bother, but something prevented him from doing it until he felt absolutely justified.
He certainly seems to have an ego, but that is compromised by his principles which even he doesn't seem too sure of given the violent and ruthless world he finds himself in. He is surrounded by men who are nastier and stupider than himself and he plays his hand as best he can while trying not to sacrifice his core values of pride and loyalty, even if these values may seem a little warped to us