What Happened to Ike? Why NO ONE Plays Him Anymore | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2022
- In the early days of Smash Ultimate, the universal and direct buffs brought a lot of attention to Ike, especially when MkLeo fielded him a lot in beginning tournaments. As time passed, his presence greatly diminished, despite not really being nerfed in any particular way. So today I wanted to go over what happened to Ike, Why NO ONE Plays him anymore.
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#SSBU #WhyNoOnePlays #Ike - Hry
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We Like Ike
He fights for his friends
I don’t like ike
For president.
Favourite swordy 💪🏽💪🏽
Everybody likes Ike
Ike being a regular Joe in Smash perfectly fits his backstory. I like how his kit isn't flashy, just a very straightforward dude swing his blade around like a baseball bat.
He fights for his friends. That’s all we need.
Truth
It's funny because he doesn't even fight for his friends, he's a mercenary, he fights for money and vengeance
@@nvrmltice oh so i guess it's not truth ☹️
@@nvrmlticeit would be more like he fights along his friends?
@@nvrmltice tell me you haven’t played his fe game without telling me you haven’t played his fe game
Funny thing is that Ike could've realistically had a kit similar to Cloud's because of his stats and abilities in his home game.
He should be running as fast as Chrom tbh
Also, yeah. Ragnell in game can be long ranged. Lol
Ike in PoR? Shit. RD? Very glod
@@elitefourfay4712h, Ike was very good overall in terms of stats and access to Aether and 1-2 range, but being footlocked and swordlocked make him a pain to use for speedruns and LTCs.
Also remember when the first 5 pages of the Brawl Vault all had Cloud PSAs for Ike? Then he became his own character and even better anyway lmao
I will never understand why they didn't give Ike the blade beam but instead gave it to Cloud.
One of the easiest reasons to pick up Ike in the early days was because Ike was a simple, fundies sword character. He taught you how to cleanly play the game, and the most important aspects of the game, like neutral and ledge trapping which the current meta of today, hence why there’s not a lot of edge guarding characters dominating the scene
while characters with bad recoveries or decent enough have good ledge trapping, being Cloud, Byleth, Steve, Roy, ROB, Fox
Ike is essentially one of those characters, and because the game hadn’t been fully developed Ike got away with a lot of things, especially since people didn’t parry often lime they do today.
Byleth, Steve and Rob all having amazing recoveries, byleth being probably the best tether and rob being so effective he can stall for ages if need be. Also Joker, Pika, Rob, Palu, GnW, Diddy And Pac man are fucking good dude, all somewhat popular at low to mid level, all definitely close to your top 20 if you're worth your weight in salt and granted, great ledge trappers as well(with an exception to palu if you're picky), are all amazing Edgeguarders.
I do not understand what you are trying to say here and I definitely don't understand what Ike has to do with any of these characters, Also what does recovery have to do with ledgetrapping? seems as though the peak of advantage state(for most characters) shouldn't really be affected by their recovery(an aspect of disadvantage) other than maybe a huge blunder in positioning, leading to the disadvantaged player taking the upper hand.
Ike in my opinion is Slow. Slow on the ground, slow in the air, slow startup on all his moves, seems as though at the ledge, where he forces the opponent to make a move in to him, would naturally be the best position to make the character work.
but I also haven't watched the video 😕
@@pooper1614e's saying that Ike is a grounded character. Unlike your claim of being literally grounded
I was going to make the case that showing players what's possible is a cardinal error when you are a sword character that doesn't do any sword stuff particularly well
Wrong game.Wrong engine. Poor approach to design philos. I only say that because we'll rounded characters at least have honest results. You're going to have a gameplan that nets you positive outcomes when approached correctly
This being the case for a Mario type character whose games function that way. Mario wouldn't fall into a cliff, it's you as the player that doesn't know how to time it better. The princess needs saving, so any mistake is on your part in not navigating the terrain
This is not the case with Ike. He is all risk and no reward. All windup and no payoff. Anything that he can do well is outmatched by characters that probably require less effort to perform the simple tasks. By the time Ike achieves optimization in his stride Smash 7 is going to come out
I think they could've played into his "I use a 2 hand sword with just 1" to give him an identity. Any move where he uses one hand should have fast frames, less power. And 2 handed moves do good shield damage or even more power.
Also, improve his F-smash. It has like the same power as Roy, but 10x worse frame data.
EXACTLY
His Smash attacks are meant to have their giant hitbox compensate for their lack of speed, but the problem is that giant hitboxes are made redundant in a game full of kill confirms.
Why swing big sword once when I get jab 5 sword twice, and if it hits once, it links into the kill?
@@faded9581 Yeah, I agree that was probably their intention...
But Ganondorf and Pyra both have similar F-smashes. Both have more range, more kill power, and significantly better frame data.
Now here's something depressing I just looked up: Ike's has 48 frames of end lag. I think that's the slowest in the game. Slower than Dedede, Bowser, and Hero.
And it might be the only f-smash that is more than 80 total frames. 😂
@@xanaviii I actually agree with you.
Ganon is both slow and stubby, so him having really good F Smashes makes sense, but just solo Pyra seems to utterly negate Ike as a character.
Pyra may not have nair combos, but she doesn't need it as her superior aerial drift allow her to use her uair the same as Ike's nair, and she can use her aerial more freely because of her superior air speed.
Hell, I cannot think of anything Ike does that Pyra doesn't do better. PR is superior to aether since it actually works oos and can be confirmed into rather than a hard callout, side b is a decent neutral option leading into setups, whereas Ike's quick draw autocancel is a one-time hat trick that will only give him stage control with no mixups or followups.
Her tilts and dair are so much better than Ike's I need not explain.
I suppose Ike's throws give him better positioning, but aside from that, he's utterly obsolete.
@@faded9581 yup, basically agree. Solo Pyra is kinda what Ike could've been. Anything Ike *might* even do slightly better than solo Pyra, has a caveat.
Like, I think Aether can be situationally better, as PR doesn't kill nearly as early with good DI. And Aether is great for ledge guarding some recoveries. If only Aether had a little more armor or was a little faster...
Quick draw is too slow despite it's name, and only helps mix up recovery if you're hit high. Otherwise just as exploitable as Pyra, if not more so.
I'm still an Ike main, but if I ever did try to compete seriously, I could never justify playing him over Aegis.
I think Ike is unpopular because (ironically) he's very reliant on fundamentals
I mean, there's being very reliant on fundamentals, and then there's being VERY reliant on fundamentals.
And then there is block man
So where's the irony
@@nil148 fundies characters are easy to pick up, so they usually accrue a large player base.
@@Red-Faction fundies?
I think you wrapped up his issues perfectly. I've been an Ike main since Brawl when I was 8 years old and it's weird having so many different swordfighters with strictly better overall kits. Still love him though and I will always like Ike
I actually want to get better at Ike would you like to play smash sometime?
I almost picked up Ike and just picked Mii Swordfighter instead. Lose a bit of range and smash distance, gain an edge in every other category.
@@benjaminjameskreger Mii sword fighter is horrible compared to Ike lol. N-air is spammable and you can almost play neutral only using that move
@@Bladieblah MiiSF can juggle with their 360 nair too but they can also kill with bair and upair.
@@benjaminjameskreger I don't think they can, it has much smaller range and isn't as safe either. That combined with worse mobility stats makes it way less spammable
I'll always appreciate Ike for being my training wheels in Brawl, 4 and Ultimate.
I play with my whole family, 4v1, and I can confidently say Ike is one of the best in the game for a casual setup like that. 😂
I wanna 4v1 that sounds dope
Oh gosh I used to love fighting 3-man CPU teams in Brawl with Ike and just blowing shit up with smash attacks lol
@doopliss 4v1 with auto handicapped turned on, the 3 kids and my gf against me. Usually ends up evening out around 100% damage start for me. It's good times. 😂👍
Great video. I'll main Ike because he's my favorite, but I'm still mad Sakurai said they originally thought giving a sword fighter a projectile would be too overpowered, and then years later gave Cloud one.
Don't forget corrin byleth sephiroth and sora
Well Cloud is special. I mean it's MF CLOUD in SMASH. Still blows my mind.
*years* later, so you mean the natural power creep of any franchise
@@Sh1ranu1 Nothing's stopping them just changing Ike's moves though. Moving Eruption over to Down-B would give him room for a sword beam on neutral. He doesn't need Counter.
Link has like 30 projectiles...
as an ike main i am completely sad. however i can be happy knowing he'll fight for his friends
I think people downplay the nerfs he got in patch 8.0.0.They gutted his greatest strength, the consistent Nair kill confirms, in exchange for buffs on committal moves like dash-attack and Aether. Also, Aether doesn't even work sometimes.
Yeah a lot of people said it wasnt a nerf, just a change, but was absolutely a nerf lol. Way worse combo and kill confirms, even if he has more options for kills, they're worse.
Nah
I appreciate other moves being able to kill and all that but to remove an amazing tool to make others better despite still not being great is just poor design
I still don't get why he doesn't have a ranged attack in Smash , in Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn his personal weapon Ragnal can fire Air Slashes plus Ike can also use axes in RD , which is THE FE weapon known for good 1-2 ranged weapons
he should be able to pull out hand axe or tomohawk like peaches turnips
They were trying to replace Roy back in brawl
Imagine if Aether could recover health. At least it is a ko move now
@@12Marxzero34I know Roy was put into Melee before his own game released, but Binding Blade was also a 1-2 range weapon lol
@@nvrmlticeThey only gave it Luna. We'll take it I guess
I'm PsyKoD, currently the best Ike in the US and ranked #2 in Ohio, recently placing 9th at the Big House 10 and I have wins on players like IcyMist, BassMage, Blacktwinz, and Doorstop. I think the main reason that Ike has fallen out of popularity is the fact that his specs are insane. Take a character like Cloud, he's at around 90-95% at everything he does. Good speed, good out of shield, good disadvantage, good advantage. Ike is specced out a bit more lopsidedly, with up to 150% in some categories, but 40-50% in others, and those bad spots can be exploited very easily. Vs characters like Roy or Fox, there are situations that Ike can be put in where the option needed to make it out positive simply do not exist. He struggles immensely vs rushdown due to no oos faster than frame 10 and one of the worst disadvantage states in the game, arguably worse than the likes of DK and Ganondorf. This really kills Ike in the US, because NA's meta is far more focused on rushdown. I think part of Yez's recent success in Japan is the fact that the Japanese meta is so much less reliant on mashy rushdown and moreso on patient neutral play, which Ike EXCELS at. However, in matchups like Luigi, Kazuya, Steve, Ness, etc, where they're really stubby and snow but the caviat is that you have to fight their amazing boxing tools, Ike nearly invalidates them because Ike can entirely skip interacting with those tools. Ike is really different from every other sword, but the closest comparison is Cloud. Cloud's bair is similar to Ike's nair in that it's big and defines his neutral but the difference between the two is that Ike's nair is SO big that the amount of leniency you have vs characters like Kazuya and Steve makes it a much easier time to outspace them compared to with Cloud, who on paper would win harder but who's spacing is less lenient to the point where it's extremely unreasonable to expect Cloud to space it correctly every time. Ike's absolutely phenominal in matchups where he can play, but in matchups where he's suffocated and can't get his stuff going (think extremely fast characters with amazing advantage states and bypass neutral by mashing on Ike, where he can't do anything), he's miserable to play. Roy singlehandedly makes a run at a major with Ike insane, because you're guaranteed to run into one and it's genuinely a -3 matchup, albeit Ike's only -3.
Oh, and as a sidenote: Ike was designed as a "slow, strong sword" because Sakurai already had a blueprint for that archetype and decided it fit Ike for some godforesaken reason even tho he's insanely fast in PoR and RD. And in Brawl, Ike was actually not as bad as people think. He was one of those characters who actually had a really good matchups spread if you didn't include MK, but folded to MK so hard that he was completely unplayable. In a timeline where MK wasn't included, Ike would genuinely have been p good in Brawl.
I actually decided to pick up Ike literally a day before this video came out lol. Do you think you could give me tips or do you have a discord for Ike’s I could join? I think he’d make a great secondary as far as matchup spread since my main is fox
@@kurokaien18 my training partner is a fox main so ive though about ike in the context of fox a lot and genuinely i think ike is one of the best secondaries for fox in the game. shoot me a message on twitter or ping me in the ike discord and ill be more than happy to answer any questions
ohio
I am a casual Ike main. I beat a lot of my buddies with him if I try hard. Around 11 million GSP online. Funny thing is a lot of people get caught by using a quick draw to the ledge and then countering their follow up ledge attack for a kill, I also can time his special explosion to edge guard well, its almost uncanny how I can perfectly time it so much.Prob not good enough for the competitive stage, but for everyone else not in the pro scene Ike is very viable so don't care about tierlist too much.
I always think about that one cutscene in Subspace Emissary where Ike is running side by side with Marth going fast as fuck and it makes me wonder what could have been...
Before Joker became a thing, one of my friends played Palu, while the other played Ike. Back then, we thought Ike and Shulk were SO FAST, all because we weren’t used to the speed of the game yet. Once we finally dialed in however, I think everyone understood that the speed of these guys is just a general speed increase from the prior entry and they’re actually relatively slow compared to the rest of the cast. I think it’s cool however, that these characters are still considered high or even top tiers. I feel like most underground characters finally got their chance in this game, such as G&W, R.O.B., Pac-Man, Wario, Pichu, and yes, the aforementioned Ike, Shulk, and Palutena. While not on the top anymore due to the increasing tides of competition with the sword category especially, seeing these mid tier snail’s pace swordies finally get some recognition, especially Ike with how long he’s been waiting, is cathartic for me. Idk, I love it when odd balls get their chance
I use to really love how Ike could cancel his quick draw into jab in brawl. I felt like I had so much control of the ground with that tool. If i remember correctly you kept a bit of the momentum after cancelling too so you had a travelling hitbox for a few frames and the jab was way less punishable than the quick draw's regular attack. It made Ike feel like a way faster character too.
Wait so the Prima guide was actually telling the truth? Cause I got into competitive Smash in Brawl and I never heard of QD canceling except in that Prima guide.
Though if you mean P:M, he can jump out of it so you could wavedash out of it.
And then in one build pf Brawl- you could act out of QD at the end of the move, which made for hilarious set ups like QD > counter > fully charged Eruption.
@@JAMllostthegame ya sorry i think i misinformed you i wasnt using the terminology properly. I think what im talking about is the build you mentioned at the end. Like the recovery on the move was super short if you didnt make it close enough for the attack to come out so youd just tap it for a second for the burst of forward momentum and jab and im sure there was much crazier stuff like you mentioned
Ike should have had some superarmor on his smash attacks. Also imagine if he could cancel out of his sideB with jump or grab.
I'm happy to hear from another of Brawl's Ike mains. I had nobody else to play that game with so I had no idea if that was common or not.
Thanks for taking the time to go into the meta changes that impact these characters. Made me realize my perception of a lot of the cast is outdated
What's weird to me is that by all means Ike should have a projectile, in his own games one of Ragnell's big strengths as a weapon is that it can fire sword beams. If Cloud, a character with generally better frame data, is allowed to have sword beams I don't see why Ike can't.
8:00 Funny thing is that Mythra made Pyra as a kinder, weaker alter ego because she hated herself for being so powerful. Now that character trait followed over into Smash
They are also used similarly because you basically spam just mythra and use pyra just to set up special combos and chain attacks to finish off the enemy.
1:18 There are actually some similarities between Ike and Roy, particularly if you look at the things that differentiated Roy and Marth in Melee. Other than the inverted tipper, Roy was intended to be more powerful with a stronger neutral-B and a more powerful counter, and both are retained in Ike. Of course, they took Roy in a different direction when he was brought back with his netural-B instead remaining as a bit of an outlier in his design.
Ike was my main in Brawl so I always loved him. He was just so f-ing strong. I really only struggled with fast high finesse characters like Diddy Kong, Snake, and Game and Watch. A shame to see such low representation at competitive play in the new game. Hope I get to play Ultimate one day and try him out.
You’re one of the few creators who’s uploads legitimately excite me when I see them in my feed. Keep it up vars
If they wanted Ike to stay the “Slow but Strong” type then next Smash game give him Urvan and let him be the first real FE character with an Axe (yes Byleth technically counts but I want more)
It would really be cool to have more representation of the other weapon types besides Swords. Robin and Byleth were a great steps but if Ike is going to be the hulking strongman at least let him use his axes too.
I’ve been an Ike main forever, and despite his weaknesses I enjoy his gameplay a lot
Ike should’ve had a projectile on his neutral special similar to clouds. His up special should also throw his sword diagonally and then have him come straight down kinda like a reverse incineroar up special. Both would help him tons and make his character more true to his source games.
It would be cool to see a Why Everyone Plays Lucina and the counterpart video, Why No One Plays Marth.
Isn't Marth just lucina but with his power locked into a sweet spot?
@@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63 Yeah, but the tipper barely does more damage than Lucina. You get almost all the damage as Marth, but you don't have to be as accurate. Not to mention Smash has way more spacers than Marth. Pyra/Mythra, Roy, Cloud, Sephiroth.
@@eljoel89 While he does very little extra percentage, I think he does quite a lot more knockback with tippers.
@@juniperrodley9843 Yep, especially his monstrous tipper F-Smash. That shit kills as early as 30% near the ledge.
@@kimoota-kun Damn that's almost as much as Kazuya's easier to set up tipper F-Smash
He was my main for around a year and I greatly enjoyed him but the biggest thing that made me drop him was the little options he had. His neutral is practically just nair and he just got too repetitive for me. I still love him. I return to play him from time to time because his aether is always fun.
Something that also hurt Ike, that I think also hurt Ganondorf down-the-line, is that players eventually discovered that his plethora of buffs in the transition to Ultimate did come with some costs.
1) Dash speed got barely an increase in the transition to Ultimate, making MUCH slower relative to the rest of the cast going into Ultimate.
2) Up tilt has smaller hitboxes and less damage without compensation on knockback. The latter thing contributes to the late hits newfound combo potential, but it does hurt its KO power overall.
3) Forward air got hit hard. It no longer autocancels in a short hop, which is a crucial tool for Ike in the previous games. Granted he didn't have Ultimate nair in the previous games, but it was still a very good tool to have. Its KO power is also noticeably weaker. As a matter of fact, it was pathetically weak when Ultimate first came out. Patch 8.0.0 helped compensate for this, but it is still weaker than in the previous games.
4) Grab game is hurt overall thanks to the universal nerfs to grabs, as well as up and down throws having their combo potentials nerfed despite Ike's faster jumpsquat. Up throw in particular lost pretty much all of its combo potential.
Funnily enough, Ike's meta did actually get rejuvenated when the 8.0 changes hit, as opinion of the character was dropping off pretty hard at that time only for it to increase after the 8.0.0 changes. Unfortunately, opinion on the character dropped off further down the line.
Sadly, Ike is one of those characters that is kinda stuck in mid tier purgatory for pretty much his entire existence (outside of early Ultimate). R.O.B. was also this case until Ultimate came out.
Fair and up tilt becoming kill moves again would make me so happy
This felt like such a good explanation, I picked up Ike and have been enjoying him recently, and I was playing Ganon before. When people know how to play against Ike, it feels impossible to approach, since a single swing and a miss usually leads to me being punished, at times even if I space it correctly. Especially against rush down characters, I have an easier time punishing or getting out with Ganon, since even Ganon makes most of Ikes moves feel slow.
I miss Ike’s 1.0 NAIR. . .
Still love him though!
Ike doesn't have a projectile, this despite the fact that the Ragnell is a sword capable of indirect combat, and the projectile would be faster that Cloud's Sword Beam.
It's probably not what he needs, but he technically has access to it and it baffles me that they didn't include that after Brawl even though they put a lot more effort in the newcomers from Fire Emblem.
They did it to keep it familiar and for archetype reasons
Ike and DK are great "oh, you've never played smash - try these characters" types of characters
This helped me understand much better thank you. Big rip ike 😢.
Please do a Duck Hunt episode! I absolutely love the character and the amount of tech he has, but given how hard you have to work for your stocks, he’s a prime candidate for this series. He CAN produce amazing results in the right hands, but you have to work around some pretty major flaws to get those results.
(And if you do make the episode, please talk about some can tech like reversal moves and anchor can!)
Hehehe... He "can." I see what you did there. But, yes! I want to see a Duck Hunt Episode! I think I only know 4 Duck Hunt mains that play competitively.
Also, he oddly enough got overall nerfed in ultimate patches. They really did not liked the frisbee.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up PsyKoD at all when talking about Ike mains. He got 9th at Big House this year and did it beating Frostbyte who plays Ike's worst matchup Roy. Very strong player who you should look into!
He commented on this video
i love watching these videos despite not knowing a single thing on any level deeper than the surface about this game... so much terminology is going straight over my head, but I enjoy it nonetheless
Just found this channel after watching a lot of vars 1
This is great keep doing it
I mainly watch ur league videos since I haven't played smash in a long time but Ike and Luigi will be always be my favorites
RIP gold Ike alt from brawl. . .
i didn't see this upload :( hi again vars! all of your vids are so entertaining and neat hehe
I've always played Zelda and over the years my brother decided to pick up Ike as a counter, which worked well most of the time but his gap closing abilities in ultimate really evened the playing field, the amount of times I've teleported directly into an up B, I've lost count lol
Great video. Though as a Pokémon player, I thought you were going somewhere else with that analogy. I saw that and thought “stealth rock, low kick, aggron doesn’t get to play”
I do love playing Ike against my friends in group games, but closing out those final stocks once it's down to 1v1 can be really difficult.
Fun fact: I havent played in like a year, but when I played Ike side b has a property in which it doesnt have any end lag or reduced end lag if its done at a certain distance from the floor: a little less than the platforms on the omega stages, it can be useful to surprise your oponents once but dont expect it to work more than once
Unfortunately Ike is just a worse version of several characters. There is really no excuse to play him when you can play:
Ike with Monado arts (Shulk)
Ike but can switch to Mythra (Aegis)
Ike but versatile and well rounded (Cloud)
Ike but min-maxed (Sephiroth)
Ike with more precision and more reward (Byleth)
Ike but faster (Lucina)
Ike if he did a fusion dance with Marth and a dragon, and he came out solidly high tier (Corrin)
One of the reasons I stopped was all the way back in Smash 4. his Side B was nerfed hard and could nolonger be held down indefinitely. As a result, he had a harder time getting back on stage.
Can't wait to see a video on my main, Corrin!
Ike is killing it in PM/P+
Yeah. I think he was rated A tier on a recent community tier list.
Ive been waiting for this one
Fellow Brawl Ike main LET'S GOOOOOOO
I think you said it best that everything Ike can do, someone else can do better. It kinda feels like he suffers from being too much in the middle, with nothing outstanding enough for him to make use of considering his intended design. His linearity also adds to this.
Also it feels like all the extra strength he has is useless and it doesn't feel like he can kill that much earlier compared to others in the cast. And even going into his KO moves you realize that two of them are great spacing and combo tools so they end up being stale (fair, bair), one is decent but his poor air mobility doesn't make it cover as much space as it should (up air), and one is a gimmick as an out of shield option, bait with super armor, or a suicide move (Aether). I will say that dash attack is pretty funny because it can be easily telegraphed, but is deceptively fast and wide when unsuspected. Bonus points to jab3 getting KO power for no reason though lol.
And when it comes to rage, he can't make use of it as much as the actual heavies because he's not actually a heavy and has an exploitable recovery. Rage being weaker doesn't help (I miss KOing with uptilt lol).
Overall I feel like he is very well-designed, especially after his rework, but the better half of the cast feels too overtuned for him to keep up.
Also I might be biased because imo P:M Ike was the best version of Ike overall. At least to me he felt well-balanced compared to the rest of the cast without compromising his design (except maybe walljump QD). Idk about current P+ though since I stopped playing that.
Ike is still my favorite swordie and one of my favorite characters in ssbu today, but I don't play at a high level or anything lol. PoR and RD are two of my favorite games and he's just awesome. I do think they need to improve his combo ability and frame data more and leave a few meaty attacks that make him satisfying, but it's weird that he has the notoriety of being slow when he's....definitely not in his games. He also can attack from range with his sword, so it's weird to see him not have that either.
Good to know before getting back into the game that my experimental main in Brawl and my tertiary since has fallen out of favor.
Sic vid again! Would u say everyone or no one plays Yoshi tho?
I've been maining Ike since brawl. Lorewise one of things that always bugged me was Ike is special in his games in that his signature weapon Ragnell can attack from range, so I was upset when cloud got a ranged move and Ike didn't. I think they could fix his laggy counter as a potential balance. But otherwise your analysis nailed it, everything that Ike does someone else can do it too, and often times better. His gimmicks are all in his special moves but they all have such a high price tag to use them to where they aren't exploitable like the rest of the cast and the payoff for landing them correctly sometimes isn't worth it, save may eruption, but even still are you using eruption to ledge trap EVERY time or against EVERY matchup? So idk, it makes me excited for smash 6 cause it seems like he has no where to go but up.
From playing Ike, I think that a way to fix him would be to keep the property of eruption of charging to gain power, but keep the disjointed hotbox universal and reduce lag for the uncharged move. Something akin to Sephiroth's flare, safer but less power uncharged.
i miss maining Ike, it was such a underdog kinda feeling and surprising others that challenged me. Nowadays i main Sephiroth
Oh my God yez! I remember him! He was one of my buds back in high school!
I’ve been a ike user since brawl tbh that one cutscene made him become my favorite
I think Ike should have been more slow and strong. Making him more like a heavy but with crazy range would have been more fun and unique while still keeping him simple.
Yeah I like this idea slower heavier and with way more range and a projectiles would be really cool
I just started playing Ike yesterday and I love him he’s so fun
I think if they gave him more movement options that would balance them out, in project + he could use a grab out of side b or jump out of side b if he was on the ground, this made him very offensive as a character. Considering that Steve has something similar, it wouldn't be too overpowered if I had something like that as well
Ike to me still has some relevance as of recent with good 9th place finishes from Yez and Psykod. Along with ikes in japan picking up good wins on Asimo. He definitely has value as a counter pick character with solid strengths and only a few -2 match ups to invalidate him. I am excited to see how my fellow ike mains adapt and continue to improve.
Homie I love you but you could maybe use a bass rolloff on your mic. It's all bass and it's sorta smooth, but it feels weird to listen to with headphones.
Ike was easily way better in the earlier stages of Ultimate but after a while people started to find out how predictable his neutral game and recovery is and how much of a pain dealing with characters with projectiles or characters with a fast paced natural game can be which was mostly why a lot of people just stopped playing him and went for the other sword characters how don't struggle as much or can keep up with said characters.
Although I agree that ike can still be viable if they don't know the match up and what not but if they do then good luck.
We like Ike. We also miss Ryo.
Yo, the dash and slash was a thing in Smash 4 from Weegee Plays. Including counter spamming with Little MAC match ups. But other than that other characters can counter play that in this game.
Maybe Ike could get an axe like Simon and Richtor. Ike can use axes when he promotes to Vanguard in Radiant Dawn.
"Ike has poor get off me options."
King Dedede: "First time?"
Ike is a strong secondary for me. I wish his nair confirmed at a little higher percents, his side b wouldn’t put him in free fall, he had a slightly better smash attack (maybe less power but comes out fast for f smash or up smash, and please please let him run just slightly faster.
You're a child if you want anything beyond the nair part of your sentence.
@@destroy7569 I guess someone died one too many times to an online Ike 😂
You need to close out stocks faster then
8:00 If you've played Xenoblade 2 you'll realise how messed up that sentence was lol
I've never played the game, but I've been watching a lot of tournaments this year
I didn't even know this character existed before I watched this video
Please do one of these analysis for ZSS
Hey... im still playing him.... :(
And i will never stop!
I still play Ike often, but man do I miss Brawl Ike... Especially that Brawl forward air!
Man I still love playing Ike
I think for the next "What Happened to ____?" video, I would suggest Wario. He was used so much in the early metagame by multiple top Japanese players (Kameme, Zackray, and Abadango), while Tweek piloted him to immense glory as well. However, nowadays, you pretty much see only Glutonny rock the Wario at top level play.
This video is inaccurate :/
I don't really normally comment on these vids be a use they are well researched and accurate, but this one is a bit yikes because it completely ignores Japan as a region. Ike is considered bottom tier in Japan with some pros even having him as low as Ganon, Doc, Plant, etc. i just double checked quickly: Proto has him in low tier, Hikaru in bottom tier, etc.
It feels like this video was heavy biased with PoR being your fav Fire Emblem and where Ike used to be in the meta, and that's ok cause I'm guilty of doing stuff like that in my own content but it weakens this video compared to the others. It feels like the creative process here started with the assumption Ike is a respectable high tier and is trying to justify it, which still may be true, but is disingenuous to say about pros when half of top players don't feel that way at all.
Still love the content, still gonna watch everything, still a ton of quality in the channel, but wanted to point it out not to be a jerk but because it's just simply inaccurate
If I had to guess that's because Ike is awful against defense, a very prominent style in Japan. Because his moves are slow he can't really shield pressure, which is a big problem. Ike is amazing at punishing approaches, which makes it better in the west, but is still a pure Pyra with less kill power, and pure Pyra is not very good due to being so slow and commital.
@@N12015 totally agree, and that is a perfect illustration of why this video is framed incorrectly through bad information.
@@robmaclennan9421 Also, apparently his worst matchups are apparently rushdown swordfighters because you can't play the spacing game with them, most notably Roy, Mythra, Chrom and Meta Knight, two of them being everywhere and one of them being the reason he was mediocre in Brawl (Why did they allowed MK in Brawl..? Ohh yeah, social pressure because smash players can be morons at times). That's why he's low-mid tier at best, just like the other 2 installments.
It might be asking way too much, and pretty random actually, but Duck Hunt Duo? I have so many doubts about this character. Many tierlists put them on a below average category/tier, but I honestly can't see any problem with their moveset at all
This is awesome and ironic. I saw the title before I saw the thumbnail and part of what I was going to say was Brawl Ike is my favorite variant. I liked how he looked like the average, slightly muscular young man yet hit like a runaway train. I didn't care for his later, bulkier appearances. Made him feel even slower than he actually was. Anyroad, Ike (ironically replacing Roy) was my preferred FE character in Brawl. I was never a fan of playstyles like Bowser and Ganondorf, though I did play them occasionally; there was something different about Ike. Maybe it was just a placebo, but for me, it was like Ike's movement was around average yet he hit incredibly hard. I was never as satisfied landing heavy blows with anyone until I played Ike. His fully charged forward Smash always felt great when it connected and don't get me started on his Brawl Final Smash...man. Such a fun character. Huh...unrelated, but I wonder if Ike influenced me later into liking KHBBS Terra (my favorite KH character). Interesting...
Should do a video on Terry next, he's such a weird niche where he's simultaneously meta and not at the same time
I’d love to see a why no one plays fox! As a Fox main myself!
Back in the Brawl days. He was every dorks favorite character.
Imma need a ganondorf vid
Very well said.
I’ve always felt like ike was just a worse cloud. All of their moves are very similar minus the specials, but cloud is generally just better.
As much as I like ike… he’s not great at top level. He’s fantastic on elite smash and he’s one of the first characters I got in, but once you start getting people who know the matchup, he fumbles pretty quickly.
I just fought the same ike like 20 or more times and he didn't even win ONE match, and yet he still rematched me! I was so frickin confused
Still my main, i love his hard hitting attacks since Brawl, it would be nice if he had a chargeable blade beam instead of the eruption but still, i love him :3
Never forget Marss taking 1 squad strike game with Ike as his lead
All I need to know is if his neutral jump attack and if his rear jump attack are still good.
Respect my king
i love ike, just like u said, hes the non royalty ordinary guy thats a journeyman sword guy. ppl may find his move set boring, but because i find his character concept even more likable than cloud, i still find him not boring. there's something cool to me about swinging that massive sword without gimmicks, it feels like im playing guts from berserk in smash.
imagine if they let ike use his ragnel's 1-2 range
Can you do "Why No One Plays Pit and Dark Pit"? I can already guess why most people don't play those characters, but I'd still like to see a video on them since I kind of main Pit.
Because he's way too ordinary and very inconsistent as well. That's what happens when your kit is made almost entirely of multihits.
@@N12015 I'd still like to see a video on him.
I'm aware how offhand it was but as a comp player I feel the need to say the pokemon comparison is actually quite the same as Smash. The reason Speed is good is because you can deny your opponent their turn at all, they are not guaranteed it unless they survive, rather than being guaranteed it if they do. In this case Defense, the ability to be more likely to get a turn, would be comparable to having options to relieve pressure mentioned later in the video. If I were then asked to determine the main difference of speed in Smash Bros, it would have to be in how its tied to controlling the battlefield through positioning. (In pokemon the equivalent would be setting field conditions and having the pokemon you want on both side of the field)
Basically Ike is a the smash equivalent to Ramphardos; high attack, low defense, low speed. Is one of the worst competitive mons period because of the lack of opportunities it has to attack, but is quite good at punishing bad players; again, just like Ike.
Can someone please tell me the name of the music used in this video? It's the same music used in Rogue & Redeemers 3 (FE Awakening DLC)
Eternal Bond originally from Radiant Dawn
@@baddecisionthebold2379 Tysm. This has been in my head for a while and I finally got to listen to it in full thanks to you
@@sodajerk.7479 no problem
One first unit fell in love i main him still 😊
I've always thought when they downsize smashs roster give ike clouds speed and blade beam and switch eruption to counter or quick slash since ragnel can be ranged.hes supposed to hit hard and be quick give him that
Incineroar would be a cool video, since I main him. I think you'll need to retool the title though, into "Why no one ever played Incineroar".