What water heater should I buy? - Pro Grade vs. Box Store
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2024
- In this video, we delve into the age-old debate: Are water heaters from box stores truly the same as those from professional plumbing supply stores? To find out, we conducted a comprehensive comparison. We purchased an AO Smith water heater from a professional plumbing supply store and another from a box store, and then we meticulously examined each component, weighing them, and noting any differences.
Our journey began in Kansas City, where we obtained the AO Smith Pro Grade Heater from a plumbing supply store and enjoyed some famous barbecue. Next, we headed to Lowe's Home Improvement Store for the box store version, encountering some filming challenges due to store policies.
As we dissected the units, we discovered significant disparities. Despite claims that they are identical, our analysis revealed distinct variations in materials and construction. For instance, the pro-grade unit consistently weighed more, indicating potentially stronger materials. We observed differences in drain valves, control covers, burner assemblies, and more.
One notable finding was the presence of a metal cap on the back of the control valve in the box store unit, a feature previously absent and associated with frequent failures in older models. This change suggests manufacturers have made improvements, likely due to previous issues with box store units.
We examine the control valves, noting a slight difference in weight that indicates potential variations in internal components. Despite looking similar, these small differences can impact performance and longevity. We then move on to the anode rod, a crucial component for protecting the tank from corrosion. The pro-grade unit features a wider anode rod with a weld spot, indicating a magnesium material, known for better corrosion is protection compared to the aluminum rod in the box store unit.
Next, we weigh the empty tanks, revealing a substantial nine-pound difference between the two. While this might seem insignificant, it represents a significant percentage of the total weight and hints at the sturdier construction of the pro-grade unit.
To put their durability to the test, we pressurize both tanks until one fails. Despite exceeding their rated pressure, the pro-grade unit fails first, but in a controlled manner, with a weld seam cracking. On the other hand, the box store unit swells and eventually pops, indicating a potentially more dangerous failure mode due to the compromised glass lining.
Overall, this experiment highlights the importance of choosing a quality water heater, as the differences in construction can significantly impact performance and longevity. While box store units may offer cost savings upfront, the potential for early failure and safety concerns make professional-grade units a more reliable choice for long-term use.
If you're interested in learning more about the differences between these water heaters, including a detailed examination of their components and failure modes, watch the full video for a comprehensive analysis.
As always, thanks for watching! We aim to bring you plumbing videos in a way you’ve never seen before.
@lowes @HomeDepot @menards - Jak na to + styl
The hole on the burner is to prevent condensation from accumulating on top the burner and snuffing out the flame when the burner is on in a cold tank. It also prevents rust on the burner.
Best explanation I've heard so far!
This a great video from a retired plumber thanks for doing it safe travels
Glad you enjoyed it
Just replaced a water heater recently. I could not find any one selling pro ao smith so I went Rheem. I was always told by a plumber to never buy from big box and never questioned his reasoning. This video gives me proof now thanks.
Love it!
I didn't think an hour long video on plumbing would be as informative as this turned out to be. Great work guys. This is going to save a lot of people money and time if they pay attention.
Tldr: dont buy box store water heaters.
Thank you!
Good info. But for the life of me, I can’t understand why every maker of CZcams videos feels we must have mindless, repetitive “music” overtop of the narration. It serves no purpose, and gets to be very annoying after a few minutes. I guess everyone thinks it sounds more “professional.” At a minimum, it shouldn’t be as loud, imo.
I experienced a box store vs. buying from a local shop when buying my lawn tractor. I bought a Husqvarna lawn tractor from Home Depot. It has had nothing but issues, and it only has 17 hours on it. I took it in for service to a Husqvarna dealer, and he was showing me major differences between his that he sold and the one I bought from Home Depot. Same models. So I sold the one I bought from Home Depot and paid the additional 280 dollar differences, and I'm telling you there are no comparisons between the 2 Lawn tractors..
Yep!
How major were the differences ?
Agreed, but if you know anything about small engines, stick to Scag/Kubota/Exmark, etc. You rarely see landscapers use any of the junk Craftsman, Husqvarna, even Toro, they all use the same low quality parts and transmission.
The John Deere mowers from home Depot are crap. 2 years the transmission failed 5 years the motor failed. The John Deere store said the home Depot ones are crap.
@@--harry_ yep!
Thanks for this video. I myself have had debates with people over the difference in quality between box stores and supply houses. However, the biggest issue for the home owner is not the couple of hundred dollar difference between the two. It's the 100 % markup in price that a plumber charges the homeowner. This doubles the price to the homeowner.
Good work isn't cheap. Cheap work isn't good.
@@SmedleyPlumbing just because someone is a “professional” doesn’t mean they do good work. My old water heater was installed by a “professional” (tag on the unit) and it was a hack job. I’m nervous about working on gas lines so when I remodeled my kitchen I had a plumber move my gas line and saw all my plumbing work under the sink and said my work was great and moving the gas line was easier then what I had done and I could have done it just fine.
@@TheOriginalLugnuts some people are definitely more capable than others that's for sure.
A homeowner can certainly go to your local plumbing store and buy a pro grade unit and install it yourself.
@jayabraham4377 maybe. Some of them are trade only. Around home for me, they all are.
As a 69 year old retired Plumbing contractor, it was great to see the things I learned about box store crap -tested and explained. Faucets, fixtures ,everything at the box stores is made to a price point. Back in the day I could dismantle 2 identical Delta 100 kitchen faucets-same part number, same packaging, and the internal components would differ a lot. Plastic control ball/valve vs stainless steel, stainless liners vs none where the packing/seals traveled, rubber composition of those seals different,etc. It's deceptive at best. Like you ,I did not wish to waste time replacing inferior parts. You get what you pay for.
Yes you do!
Your video showed up on my feed and was of interest to me as I just had a 5 year old Rheem water heater spring a leak. Damn plastic drain valve gave up the ghost. When it's time to replace, I will only go with a pro grade replacement. Your video taught me the difference between the two as I leaned toward made on the same line with different stickers. Thank you so much. Oh, and paying my plumber for his expertise saved me more as I would have replaced the drain valve with another plastic valve, and he instead put in a brass ball valve. Home owners don't know what they don't know. Smiles.
Thanks!
I needed a new 50gal tank and my plumber said he uses the pro grade A.O.Smith but if I wanted I could go to Lowes and buy one of there (Rheem, store brand , etc.) units and he would charge me the labor. I opted for the pro grade because if something went wrong under warranty I would have to handle it with Lowes but if it went wrong with the unit he put in, he would take care of it. Made it a very easy decision, Excellent installation.
Love it!
Lows has the AO smith, homedepo has rheem
My supply house sent us to the AO Smith / State water heater manufacturing facility outside of Nashville. Which is massive. AO Smith / State owns the company that makes ALL the components for their water heaters. I asked this very question " what is the difference between pro and box store?" answer; The box store units are made in a different facility, in a different state with out sourced parts. They also have a different glass liners. Drop the Mic!
Yep!
A hardware store here has a display. They've got two Weber grills side by side. One they went and bought at Walmart, The other is the grade they sell. They've done the same thing you did. The first thing is how different the thickness of the sheet metal is. The one they sell weighs around 7 lb more if I remember correctly. Thicker steel on the side sticker burner heavier frame the works.
@@SmedleyPlumbing great video. What is the warranty on the pro model? At the box store I can get a 6y 9y 12y or a lifetime warranty. Is it possible that the pro model is the same as the box store 9y or 12y?
@@FPSG pro models only have a 6 year warranty. But they're likely to make it there too.
@@SmedleyPlumbing thanks. That was all I wasn't clear on. The tank on my 30 year old Montgomery ward 300 started leaking 2 weeks ago. They used to last forever.
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing. Now I have a strong selling point for pro grade tanks.
Love to hear it!
FANTASTIC job. That took a lot of hard work. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
One of the best educational videos on CZcams. Earned a sub. Look forward to learning more.
Welcome aboard!
Agreed!
Great video! I am stoked to bring some light to my customers about our units vs box store units 🤙
That is awesome!
Hands-down one of the best comparison videos I've ever seen! This is great info!!
Glad it was helpful!
Rheem has two lines of gas tank water heaters, Performance which can be purchased at HD and like the one we have, a Professional model that was installed by a HVAC/Plumbing company. Also in the USA (not the world) there are other water heater manufactures like Haier who makes GE, Bosch, Rinnai (Japanese brand) plant in Georgia. Thanks for the comparison. You learn something everyday.
Yes we might do the Rheem line next!
@@SmedleyPlumbing I’d like to see the Rheem line. After watching your video, I researched the box store 50 gallon Rheem electric I bought at Home Depot. It does have a brass drain valve and magnesium anode rod, but I’m guessing they’ve cut some corners somewhere, and I’d like to know where.
I’m just a homeowner and didn’t realize the quality would be different based on where I bought until watching your video. I hope this one lasts, but now I know for the future.
@@GraingerProductions we considered that. But Rheem changes the name of their pro line to Ruud. So people works likely think they are two different heaters. That's why we did the AO vs. AO.
There is is also HTP as well
Very detailed and informative! I appreciate your effort. Probably explains why my Proline Plus Nautilus by American Water Heaters installed in 1992 is still working!!!
Exactly!
Good to hear. The proline plus Nautilus installed when I bought my house in '93 crapped out all over my laundry room floor after seven years.
@@weing :( I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe I just got lucky with this. Not sure.
Excellent video. Learned so much and now know what to look for on quality.
Glad it was helpful!
Great timing. I’m a home handyman and planning on replacing my 10 years old 50 gal tank. Thanks for the info
Glad to help!
What has failed in 10 years ? Seems rather short. My water heater is 17 years old, and it just started heating a reduced amount of water, not full 50 gal
Fabulous video. We replaced our water heater four years ago. Our plummer only uses the AO Smith commercial unit. Seeing this video makes me feel good about our purchase.
Yep!
You guys put awesome effort into this. Love it
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks! I have a bunch of rentals that have gas water heaters. Coming up on 60 year old houses. I thought it was just Lowes. I bought a Kenmore heater and it's still in service. Not a moment's trouble. I bought a Lowes and I almost knew the repairman by his first name. Lots of trouble with the gas burner, control, and pressure valve. I bought a Home Depot unit for another house and it's also still in service. While it has never had a service call, it's tough to get it to fire up. I'll have to look up how long they've been in service. One I think is at 15 years. Probably time. I have a supply house near me. Great guys.
Thanks!
I have always heard they were the same too. All the water heaters I have replaced (not a plumber) and I always bought the box store version thinking I was getting the best bang for my buck. Thanks for this video! Very informative and I know to go pro grade next time.
You're very welcome!
I have been a general contractor for 33 years. I have only installed 3 tank water heaters in the last 20 years on my projects. Have installed over 100 Noritz tankless units. We had one heat exchanger leak in that time period. We had a replacement part from Noritz in 48 hours. (Was still under warranty)
Installed properly, and tankless units are pretty awesome.
Having a tank water heater in your home gives you access to 50 gallons or more of potable water in case of an emergency. Unless you're short on space, most plumbers I know prefer a tank unit.
@@giovannicampos7462 If you need an emergency water supply it's less expensive to install a"tempering" tank and a smaller high efficiency demand heater. Cheaper still is a supply of 1 gallon water jugs. Plumbers get paid by the hour. They make more money from servicing and replacing tank units than from less frequent work on higher quality, more expensive and durable demand units. Auto mechanics and dealers have similar attitudes about preferring ICE cars that have more mechanical maintenance needs ta BEVs. The newer tech has different support needs.
I live in a hard water area. A tankless heater requires servicing annually to prevent lime blockage. The cost of this removes any financial advantage in using tankless.
@@67daltonknox Yeah we never pushed tankless for a financial advantage. Yeah they save a little bit of energy but they're added initial upfront cost in their added maintenance costs offset any energy savings. So literally the only reason we ever push tankless is for people that need endless hot water.
My box store heater had a control box fail so I called the 800 number and got the run around for 1-3/4 hours. Finley I hung up and called the manufacturer and ask for the COO with in 5 minutes I was told I would have my part with in 24 hours delivered next day air.
We hear that all the time.
What is coo 🤔
@@jcaleca60 Maybe "Chief Operating Officer"?
This video is really excellent. It is the video I was looking for with a detailed comparison. I’m a quality engineer married to a general contractor and evaluating our cost of materials. I wanted to understand if we are really getting better quality components at plumbing supply stores. Thanks so much!! Subscribing!
Thanks!
Finally someone proving what I have been saying
I only buy from supply houses
Its a big investment an extra 100 150
10 yrs or 20 years
Aggravation and cost every 10 or 20
I'll take a little more for a lot more years
EVERY TIME
Thanks for this video
Good stuff!
dude this video totally helped the plumbing community
That's why we do it!
@@SmedleyPlumbing yeah dude that’s so awesome. I know it was probably expensive to make the video. Totally respect you guys. i watched a few commercials on purpose so hopefully it helps recoup some of your funds. I’ve recently started listening to The Void podcast as well. You guys have great advice, very entertaining, and it’s definitely helped me as an employee of a company producing more sales.
@@robertburns236 thanks man!
2006 AO Smith Commercial water heater owner checking in here 😄. I've had it in the budget for the last 5 years to replace it, but the damn thing just won't die. I only had to replace the burner about 5 years ago (which is what made me start thinking I needed a replacement). I've also never drained the thing and it still pumps out some scalding hot water. I'm scared to replace it at this point because I KNOW I'll never get 18 years out of whatever I replace it with 😆. Thanks for the great video!
Good stuff! Great job 👍 They have a different tank lining also.
Yes they do
Just found your channel. I enjoyed the episode, very informative. Well made video. Knowing that the manufacturer improved the parts going in the pro grade makes it more justified to spend the extra money. Seeing the difference really helps. Thanks
Thanks!
What an awesome video! What product comparison box vs. pro grade is next?
Thanks so much for your support of the Spirit of Opportunity and your local supply house at Kansas City Winnelson!
Who knows what we'll test next!
Great video. I’m a 71 year old retired plumber and would only suggest a little more personal protection when pumping up those lines at high pressure. When I was starting as a teen with my dad, construction plumbers were still using flares for sealing gas leaks in newly finished buildings. Very dangerous as there were plumbers that were injured doing so.
Hydro testing is actually very safe as long as steam is not involved.
@@SmedleyPlumbingYou were the one that said “I’m nervous, I don’t know what it’s going to do”. Good reasoning. I’ve done hydrostatic testing on most of the high rises, hospitals, and other commercial sites that required it. Never used anything over 150psi. Why? Because most fittings and valves are rated at 150psi, including, it appears, the iron ones you used on your test lines. The union based school I went to in the early 70’s had videos sponsored by American Water Heater showing units blowing up prior to the use of T&P valves, and yes, lives lost. Great job at showing the general public what they are getting from box stores as opposed to the ones plumbers buy and the time and money you spent to do so. Stay safe out there.
As a DIYer you have me looking for an upgrade kit for my box store water heater - so far I’ve sourced a better brass release valve and anode rod and I’ll probably just strap a bunch of hose clamps around the tank to keep it from puffing out. 😮😊
Ha! Or just buy a pro grade tank from a professional plumbing supplier.
Great video. Thanks for being so thorough.
Thanks!
I have a lot issue with comments that they are not from the same assembly line. I think those people are not familiar woth factory operations. Both water heaters are likely from the same assembly line but are assembled using different components. It would not make a lot of sense to have an extra assembly line to build a mere identical water heater unless you needed a sexond or third line to meet capacity. Very likely no difference in tooling would be needed building both 40 gal water heaters.
Using the same assembly line they could possibly build 40, 50, 60 gal water heaters on the same line, needing only various different tooling.
The video proves that different components are utilized in pro vs box store water heaters, but this hardly proves they are using different assembly lines.
As a analogy if you buy a car.. call its a Chevy Cruise, GM would not have different assembly lines for each trim level. Rather the components to be assembled would vary depending on which particular trim, car, color they would be building at a time. If one looks at videos online, a car manufacturer may build a $20k base model and next on the the might be $40k top of the line trim. All the same assembly line, but just various models or trims. I expect AO Smith to be doing exactly the same.
You're exactly right. Problem is that most people don't understand that the same assembly line will produce different heaters.
@@SmedleyPlumbingA.O. Smith owns a few water heater factories. You can look up where each is made on the paperwork (sometimes the stickers will say, too).
We were trying to get a particular Bradford White heater. None available, as they only produced that model twice a year, next time about 4 months away. We found a similar Rheem unit we could actually get.
Interesting video. My water heater went out, and the plumber wanted to sell me an expensive water heater with his markups, which was obviously added. I bought one from Home Depot, 12 year warranty and got a 10% Veterans discount. I saved a bundle, and it will probably last just as long. Plus, Home Depot stands behind their products better than the local fly by night plumbers. Location: Las Vegas June 2024. 🙂
Bought a GE 30 gal electric from Home Depot 20 years ago, and the thermostat just failed this week. I figure 20 years was great service and it's time to retire the entire unit. I can do the job in an hour, milking it. Sadly, Home Depot no longer carries GE, so I'm gonna go with the AO Smith from Lowes this time. I was worried about the quality, but your video just convinced me that it would do the job just fine. Nothing personal, and I know everybody's gotta eat, but a licensed plumber would want $1500+ to do that job for me. Great video, and I thank you, even if it probably had the opposite effect you were hoping for. $900 per hour is more than anyone "needs" to make.
Gotta do what you gotta do!
I usually charge pretty high, but $1,500 isn't bad for a 30 gal
@@joeyyc8515, Hey I get it...but I can do the work myself so paying anything seems silly to me. Others aren't as fortunate and for them, I would recommend a good plumber for many reasons. So glad I didn't toss the old GE after all that though.....turns out the circuit breaker had an intermittent failure and once I replaced it......nice hot water. 😁 Tank looks good enough to go another 10 years easy and now I have an extra thermo. It may outlive me 🤣
I've got a 20 year old GE WATER Heater that I bought from Home Depot in 2004. It's electric and is still working just fine without any problems. It was made by Rheem.
If you keep the anode in good enough shape to prevent too much corrosion, either by adding a powered anode or replacing the disposable one every few years, a tank can go almost indefinitely aside from an occasional cheap element or thermostat replacement. You could likely replace the thermostat yourself for under $100. I replaced one of the elements and the anode on my now 25 year old water heater last year and plan on replacing the drain valve next time I flush it.
Interesting review, I literally just purchased and installed this very same heater from the big box store. Thank you for this informative and educational review 👍
Glad it was helpful!
@SmedleyPlumbing Definitely, I appreciate your time. 👍
Bought my house in July 2021. Water heater was original. Last year, I replaced it with a Lowes AO smith 50gal (old one was bradford 40gal). I did replace the plastic drain valve with a brass ball valve. Right away I was impressed with the water temperature. I have had no issues with my 50gal Lowes AO Smith water heater since I installed it over a year ago. I do want to drain it and replace the anode rod though in the next month or so.
Fingers crossed!
Fixin to buy one thanks for the info outstanding job
Glad to help!
Great and insightful video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great job. Definitely a difference with the tank quality.
I think so too!
31:08 Great video, but I do have to give you a little bit of a hard time. The reason the socket got stuck was because it was a non impact rated socket and a 12 point. 🤠👍 Oh yeah, Texas BBQ.... 💯 😁
Yeah I like to break things. Lol. Texas BBQ isn't bad either!
There are differences as you have shown. With that said, I have a 32 year old water heater from Lowe's. Water quality and maintenance have more to do with long-term use.
You probably have lower water pressure as well.
My control valve failed just as you described. Plastic cracked leaking water into control valve. Valve never turned off burner. Water turned to steam. Relief valve never opened. Luckily that was the worse of it. Great video.
Thanks for sharing!
I worked for plumbing wholesale distributors and residential water heaters were always sold below cost because huge rebates were a big part of of the game. It’s like the franchised auto/truck dealership showing you their “invoice” and claiming that they are losing money, but they are definitely making some money.
Yep!
Thanks for doing this test! Kinda worries me that the T and P valve didn't release the pressure as thats it only reason for existence lol
We plugged the T&P port on both to focus the test on the tank only.
@SmedleyPlumbing ohh ok. Sorry I must have fast forwarded that part.
You like to live dangerously haha
@@fortunatedad7695 there's an element of safety that comes with compressed water versus compressed air.
Great video. It put to bed a lot of myths about what you get. The sad part is the DIYer who did one water heater in his life will tell you they are still the same. Just like the sales person at the box store. Keep making the videos but we know some folks will still deny the facts to hold to their errant opinion. A certain comedian hit it on the head when he said “you can’t fix stupid”
Very true!
Excellent. Thanks. The same rule of thumb goes for fixtures.
Yes it does!
Great video, very informative. Thank you for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. Very informative 👍
You are welcome!
Excellent video, as always. Confirmed alot of what I suspected. Tell Austin he did a good job on the editing as well.
Thanks! Will do!
I do general home improvement and repairs, including water heaters and I get them from the big box stores. I haven't had any problems with them, but I still totally believe what he is saying about these things. My 1999 home still has the original gas water heater and it still works just fine, i have had a new one sitting right next to it for when it fails and it's been sitting there ready to go for well over 10 years. I think I'll wait a bit longer...
Long live the pre 2000's heater!
I think you should have weighed the tanks at the end without any insulation on them. Just to give an example of the thickness of the metal or how many pounds of that difference was the actual tank/glass thickness. Overall great video. Lots of good information. Get the camera, man a gimbal.
Thanks for the tip
Fabulous video, but I can not believe that you ran the pressure test with the tanks right next to the pickup truck. I understand they had water in them, but still you were using a gas to pressurize them. One of the reasons the pro one might have failed first is if there was some leak in the box store version. Even though they were fed by the same pipe, resistance in the pipe might have resulted in a lower effective pressure in the box store tank, especially with all the distortion in the pipes you observed.
Yeah one swelled while the other cracked a weld. I would much rather a tank crack a weld than swell and burst.
Hello from the other side of the State...
14 years so far. This one was bought and installed by a local True Value hardware store. I have no idea the brand because I wrapped a WH blanket around it 14 years ago, and can't remember and can't find the receipt, lol! House was built in '55 and they didn't build the typical middle class ranch houses back then with heating, cooling or ventilation in mind for the basement. Can you say cold in the winter! Hence, the extra blanket. Enjoyed the video! Thanks...
So most of these changes have occurred in the last 10 years.
@@SmedleyPlumbing
Maybe I should have bought a spare water heater back then, lol. I'm sure this water heater is approaching it's last days. I'll be suggesting a pro grade to the plumber next time around.
Thanks for this analysis!
I wish I had seen this before I purchased a box store Rheem. Seemed to be a great deal. After it failed prematurely. Rheem honored the warranty. The part was only manufactured for the box store. It would have been weeks before receiving the replacement part from Rheem. Weeks without hot water.
Never again.
Sadly we hear of this all the time
Realized after watching a video on Anode Rod’s and the need to replace them 3-5 years. I had never replaced my water heater rod and so did some more research and ended up going with an electric protection anode rod. I have replaced it already however what is your take on these type of anode rod replacements? Even one plumber store talked to using this type of anode rode if they did the project.
I did replace the anode rod myself and from various video’s, I used a 1/2 inch impact socket and impact wrench. Purchased a Ryobi 1/2 inch impact wrench and sockets on sale and it worked like a charm. The anode rod was on very tight over the 10+ years not replaced. Took a few attempts with the impact wrench but it broke it loose and I had may be 6-8 inches left (wish I could attach a photo), it did its job for sacrificing but was due for replacement. Now I used the impact wrench so I didn’t mess up the water lines or twist the water tank by using a breaker bar, definitely the impact wrench was a good choice.
Nice video produced!!
Thanks!
The expansion tank is only really needed if the supply has a backflow preventer. If one is turning off the water supply, a faucet hot water valve can be opened to prevent positive or negative pressure in the water tank. Commercial properties are more likely to have a backflow preventer on the building supply, but irrigation water generally needs a backflow preventer valve. More jurisdictions are adding requirements for backflow preventers for residential properties, and they definitely need an expansion tank. But, not everyone needs one.
Code requires them on all applications now since the presence of a backflow preventer is more likely than not.
@SmedleyPlumbing not true at all. Not all codes are the same. I'm on a well and don't need one. And I would fire any plumber that tried to sell me one.
@@SmedleyPlumbing Code only requires it on closed systems. The EPA has required water systems protect from backflow contamination. My city only requires backflow prevention on commercial/industrial buildings, and residential irrigation systems, not on the residential supply. Hose bibs must have anti siphon devices. To assume all water systems are closed is just putting additional expenses to avoid the need to determine if it is a closed system. Perhaps the AHJs in areas you serve require that expansion tank everywhere, maybe they plan to require new backflow preventers, but those would be an expense which the homeowners would need to pay. In northern climates, it would make more sense to put the backflow preventer indoors for easy servicing. In areas with no frost line, they can be put slightly underground in an irrigation box. In either case, it's relatively easy to determine if one exists.
@@homesteadhaven2010 It is true. The code requires a thermal expansion tank when the conditions for thermal expansion are present. With you being on a well then you are not required to have a thermal expansion tank because your well bladder tank serves as a thermal expansion tank as well.
Wow great thank you now I know where to purchase my water heater 😊
Exactly!
The trick is that supply houses often won't sell to consumers. Buddy of mine needed a furnace relay and Winnelson would not sell him one because he wasn't a contractor. He was a trained tech in a related field working in million-dollar machines that have their own HVAC systems. But they wouldn't sell him the part. He had to get one off ebay or something. Supply houses can be very strict.
They put a lot of money and time in to this video great job guys 😊
Thanks!
Mitch getting shocked deserves a like and subscribe for sure
Little booger caught me by surprise! Lol
Wonderful video!
Thank you very much!
The Plant in Johnson City manufactured most of the retail product uses pre-cut and pre-cleaned steel. They had a better glass lining process so they could use thinner steel. Each plant has different tooling, there are lots of differences in the product from one plant to the other, like the watts vs. cash acme vendor. I worked as a sales manager in wholesale for A.O.Smith/State for 20 years.
And I have no doubt that you know that their intentionally selecting cheaper materials to use on the box store models. Which would be why we as professional plumbers see box store heaters failing much faster and much more often than any professionally purchased heater.
@@SmedleyPlumbing I work at the Johnson City factory. The steel is (mostly) the same regardless of which factory is using it now. Rare differences in thickness, where they exist between comparable models (pro or retail), are less than a hundredth of an inch. What major differences do currently exist are mostly to do with what kind of weld is on the long seam. The pro model used submerged arc welding for that seam. Your pro model was also most likely a few years old. Since COVID all the metal has gotten thinner, and all of it is being standardized across the board. They may not be exactly the same buying them right now due to old stock shuffling out, but they will soon be near carbon copies of eachother.
This was amazing !! Thank you so much for sharing !!!
You are so welcome!
years ago I used to be a Lowe's plumber contractor and their only selling point was their credit card and you could finance it
Yep!
There are more than three companies that make tank hot water heaters.
GSW is a big name in Canada. Located in Fergus, Ontario.
Been in business for 150 years
Residential units?
GE and American Standard makes water heaters
@@JK-qe6qq Rheem makes both GE heaters and American Standard heaters.
GWS is owned by A.O. Smith, hon. Has been for a long long time
Had a home owner change out a gas water heater because it had water coming out of the bottom, it was in an open garage and it was just condensation not running water or leaking anywhere.
Condensation can happen on the first burn or if the water heater is run completely out of hot water.
I have replaced a number of water heaters and have had nothing but issues with the Rheem water heaters from Home Depot. Their thermo couples keep failing. On one water heater, it failed twice before the warranty expired. The Rheem company would send out another kit, but the tenant would be without hot water for several days. I gave up on the warranties and just purchased a thermocouple from a supplier. This has occurred to a second water heater with the same issue.
On another newer Rheem water heater still under warranty , the thermostat would not work properly and would cause the PT valve to start leaking. I first thought the issue was with a faulty PT valve. Replaced it and had the same issue. Instead of replacing the thermostat, I replaced the water heater.
Yes even the small parts are inferior to those on a pro grade unit.
That was awesome!
Glad you liked it!
It's just like tires. The same exact model at WM has less plys than at a tire shop. If you look close, long number for the model is different but the big text is the same.
Yep
Good comparison. I will say the difference in the steel cover could be that one is shorter than the other. Takes a longer piece to follow the water heater than the gentle curve of the box store one.
Yes. But they are indeed different.
Please consider doing more comprehensive comparison videos of box store vs plumbing supply store for faucets, toilets, and shower trim using units from the same brand.
We totally will!
Sure, the pro grade should be better, but as long as your relief valve is working properly, it'll never see that kind of pressure. I also notice Lowe's sells different AO Smith 40 gal tanks with 6, 9, or 12 year warranties. I wonder if the 12 year Lowe's heater is the same as the pro grade.
Relief valves fail closed all the time. It's a very common issue we see. Also, the thinner metal shows wear and stress much sooner. That's why we see so many box store tanks fail within a few years.
Around 1990 the company I worked for asked Bradford White the difference between water heaters with different warranty lengths, their answer was the price difference represented the increased cost of the longer warranty. No difference in construction. This was done to answer a customer question.
Pro grade is simply advertising logo for the wholesale house.
Awesome video, thank you.
Our pleasure!
I had a 100 gallon natural gas ProLine A.O. Smith water heater bought from Ferguson installed this year. So far no problems.
Love it!
On Thursday evening I was talking to a buddy that works for FW Webb and asked if they would sell me a heater, as I have a thirteen-year-old Bradford White 12 year warranty heater. Sunday morning, I have no hot water. Pilot is out and there is water leaking out of the bottom of the heater onto the basement floor. the plumbing distributers are all CLOSED on the weekend so off to the box store I go and buy the best grade 40 gallon natural gas direct vent heater that they have in stock because I don't want cold showers for at least a day. At the box store they help me get the heater into my compact car for the short ride home. My buddy helps me get it out of the car and down to the basement without damage to the heater or injury to us. Old guys rock! I was able to plumb up the copper, reassemble the gas pipe and install the flue tubing. The new heater was taller than the old one so that made the job easy. On the following Tuesday we scrapped the dud heater and bought a six pack with the proceeds and celebrated our work.
Congrats! Now you'll know how to do all that again in 5-6 years when the box store heater fails.
Also, I noticed that the energy efficient is different from one heater to the other one was 300 and another one was 200. I noticed that right off the bat when you talk about the heaters.
Yeah those numbers are very inaccurate. They guess at your energy rates and your usage. We never trust those.
@@SmedleyPlumbing I thought those numbers were "normalized" ??? Otherwise, they would be useless? I agree with the OP that those look like subtly different water heaters! I would be curious to see a close-up of both stickers?
I wanted to see the inside of the tank and see what the steel gauge was.
We talked about why we didn't do that towards the end.
Still wanted to see it. I wanted to see the internal build too. @SmedleyPlumbing
@@TractorWrangler01 gives us something to do in a future video!
Great video well done,i learn a lot that i didn't know.
Glad it was helpful!
How did it take so long for someone to finally come out with a clear and detailed comparison video?!? Thank you so much for taking the time and making the $ investment to review these products side by side. Fortunately I'm not in the market for a hot water heater, but now I see why pro grade is better. With that part settled... I'd be curious to see whats the difference between pro grade models. What makes a Bradford White so special?
The biggest thing that makes Bradford so special is they don't distribute through box stores. Only professional plumbing supply stores for Bradford.
Energy guide are way different between the two Box store $227 and Pro $ 320. But box store saving you more money per year. Why?
The energy guide ratings are wildly inaccurate.
That energy guide is the government lying to you.
@@notsure1872pretty much like everything else they tell you. :)
The tank by itself are the same. The weight difference between the two stripped is the sheet metal outer case. The difference between the two is the quality of the components. The internal tank is the same across the line. A box store AO Smith comes in 3 models, 100, 300, 500. The tanks are all the same. What you are paying extra for is the warranty.
I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think our video proves that as well.
Yep, if it's made by AO SMITH, all the tanks are identical! I went through AO SMITH’s three-day school (5 years ago) and the factory in Tennessee. I can personally verify that if it's different, it's in the controls, drain valve, and stickers.
You should see how those tanks are handled after coming out of the “glass lining process”. It is amazing how much rough handling they take. I questioned the engineer about it, he said you can bounce the tank and still not crack that lining it's that tough. I never worried about dropping one off the tailgate again.
Oh yeah, change the anode rod every year!
@@TOOLMAN4hvac our findings would indicate differently. Significant weight differences and performance differences.
@@SmedleyPlumbingnot significant weight difference.
Aluminum is a superior anode. It lasts longer.
I would be curious about the thickness of the steel of the tanks. I expect that is where the weight difference is. The thinner steel would expand more under pressure, which is why you saw the differences in failure mode. So the box store model, with thinner lighter steel, expands and contracts more under pressure changes, breaking the glass lining. Once the glass is compromised the thickness of the steel doesn't matter much because corrosion of the steel is relatively fast.
We left with the same thoughts.
@@SmedleyPlumbing Hole saw and dial caliper....
Had a Woods that lasted 20+ years heating our iron-rich water. Replaced it with a Rheem from Home Depot that leaked after 2 years. Got a free replacement that lasted 3 years when it failed near the top of the tank which caused water to short out the thermostats which filled the house with smoke. I got another free replacement that's 2 years old now. I'm money ahead but I'll never buy another box store heater and probably will get something other than Rheem.
Yep!
You had a problem with the anode rod because you should have used a 6-point socket.
It was also a chrome socket
I hate to burst anyone's bubble on pro grade or Lowe's grade water heaters. I have now had 3, yes 3 so-called pro grade water heaters in a rental I own. The first one cost me over $2381.00. Why? Well, the plumber said he needed to completely replace all the old lines and install a $ 258.00 expansion tank. I discovered he never pulled a permit that the city requires. That cost me another $ 321.00 above the original cost. One year and a few weeks after the first pro-grade water heater it started leaking from the bottom. I called him out to replace it. Low and behold, yeah its done. Labor to replace said water heater with a 15 year warranty was $ 938.00. 341 days later the new one was leaking. Called Mr. Yoyo again. Yep water is leaking. He said he would only charge me for his time to get a new one. The bill was only $ 692.00. Guess what, the new one after 6 months is leaking again. I called Home Depot this time. Replacement was $ 1081.53 including labor and a 25 year warranty on the tank. Oh, the so called pro grade water heater. According to the manufacturer is no different from the home depot model except the warranty...
Sounds like your previous plumbing was missing some water pressure issues causing premature tank failure. Excessive water pressure will shorten the life of any tank.
It's on the building/home owner to pull the permits and the expansion tank is required now and no water heater will have a 15 year or 25 year warranty..
Around 2005 my father and I installed the best GE tank water heater the local Home Depot sold, marked the installation date on it, and two years later it started to leak. We were so annoyed that we had to do the job all over again and all that goes into wrestling it into a basement, moving things, disposing of the old one, etc. After that, we've never even looked at anything other than a water heater from a local plumbing supply house.
All too common unfortunately.
I have a Sears Kenmore Electric Water Heater with Roto-Swirl feature. Original Warranty was 9 years. I installed it 24 years ago and it is still in service. I have not had to replace a thermostat or an element. I really miss Sears!
24 year ago, the box store units very well may have been the same heaters. Not today though.
So replace the drain valve and upgrade the anno rod if you want to magnesium.
Come on not scientific enough You would have to weigh all of the phone that thin metal housing break it down to find out if there really is more weight in the metal if the metal is thicker and then it really comes down to the weld quality which as we can see in your video the pro grade weld went bad before the box store.
So the conclusion is even if you have better materials it still comes down to human error or if they're using machines to do the welds comes down to human error on calibrating the machines.
The only way to truly know is to have a running tally of maybe 5 years 10 years on failures of pro-grade versus box store. Then you will have some statistics.
Good video good effort not enough for convincement 👍
As a plumber of over 20 years, we have the real life results to know that box store heaters don't last as long. This video shows why. The swollen tank told us more than anything else.
I used to plumb in cali.. bradford white best stuff 👌
At least they stay out of the box stores.
Great video. The one thing I would have done differently would have been to pressure test each one separately. This way we could have seen at what pressure each one let loose. At 450 psi, the pro unit would have flooded my basement while the box store unit would have contained the pressure.
The box store unit started leaking first. And then when we push the pressure even higher the pro grade unit had a controlled failure that resulted in a leak large enough to stop the test. But ultimately the box store unit would have flooded a house before the pro grade unit.
Unbelievably useful vid!
Any plans on doing one for ELECTRIC water heaters???
Possibly!
Thank you for the video! Any opinions on electric anode rods? I am in Michigan, have city water, have a softner, on my 5th water tank in 20 years. I have come to conclusion that my anode rod needs servicing more often but no contractor locally has ever suggested this as a preventative maintenance step. I had had 2 ao smith, ge and bradford white. Only the ge was "box store".
On theory, electric anode rods work well. I haven't seen a correlation between electrin anodes and longer tank life though.
@@SmedleyPlumbing any direct experience with the corro protect? My mom had well water with the really bad sulfur bacteria smell, the corro protect solve that in 24 hours. I just wish I could find evidence to see if Corro protect does well in the long run. And works well with softened water.
@@JLLG2 honestly never heard of it
@@JLLG2sulfer smell at high temp that goes away is a bad sacrificial(zinc?) anode hence the term "sacrificial." Might have an inferior anode product tho so maybe a "pro grade" anode tho.
The pro grade is rated at a higher btu
This is also true
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Love these types of comparisons. That said, they both look like nice units. It is nice to see that if you spend more for the Pro-Grade unit that you do get some upgrades. The Box Store units can be much more affordable especially if you have a veterans discount at the Box Store not to mention the savings if you install it yourself. This reminds me of comparing Toyota and Lexus - are they both the same basic vehicle made by the same company - yes, absolutely. Are they both a quality product - yes, absolutely. Is the Lexus "nicer" with some enhanced features if you have the extra money to spend - yes. Will the Toyota work and be a quality product if that is what your budget allows - certainly. Does a serviceman selling and installing equipment always want to maximize the sale and reduce service calls over the lifetime of a project - certainly.
Great points!
If you wanted to mount a pressure gauge on your heater where would you put it? On the hot outlet nipple?
Cold inlet. It will last longer.
Shame on the box store for selling crap. We expect it to be the same product. Especially if we can do the work ourselves.
Maybe shame on us for expecting the same product......?
No different than buying stuff at 'outlet' stores - it's not the same as you find in their other stores.
Buyer beware is the oldest rule in capitalism dude
@@scottkasper6378 not sure I'm following you...?
@@SmedleyPlumbing the commenter saying shame on box store for selling something different. Let the buyer beware is a fundamental rule. It’s on the buyer to find the best product
Fun Video ! Try a Hydrostatic Pressure Test next time , I use that method to test tanks for leaks!! Its cheap and easy !
I'm listening....
Great video. Curious though why the pressure valve didn't give out when it exceeded the 150 PSI? Or did you take it out so that you can see the failure point of the tanks?
That's exactly what we did.