A first list of gear that is too damn expensive. Some gear is expensive but worth it- this list has some of both. 0:00 Intro 0:50 List starts 12:16 Closing theory
Very good video. I think for the expensive classic synths it is worth to find a good rental service for those. So you can just rent them if you want to use them. Same for other gear which you don't need permanently.
Thank you very very much ! Finally somebody who doesn't talk nonsense but true reality. No nervous Dr. Mix bla bla or Espen Kraft idiocy. Keep up the good work. You are right on top !!!!
Something like a Yamaha CS-80 can be a decent investment for a professional studio. They can insure it as a business expense. An musicians will record at a studio if there is some unique or useful gear there to use. And honestly, a vintage piece of equipment is going to be taken care of in a studio and enjoyed by a lot of musicians. Safe from the wear and tear of the road.
Jeffrey, what you have hit on is the difference between buyers: Those that buy through the emotion of romance, and those who buy through the lens of pragmatism. You sound like the latter sir. Count me in that group too.
I think the one huge point missing in owning a vintage synth is that thing called "Mojo". It was early 2000's before I got to play a Minimoog and when I did I just knew I had to have one. The physical presence, the wood, the smell of old electronics, the knobs and switches, all these things hit the senses differently to say standing in front of a Behringer D. If all you want is a sonic recreation then fine, buy a VST, but I've never regretted buying my Minimoog and I always break out in a huge grin when I power her up.
That's funny I always break in a big grin whenever I play my Behringers because I got the Model D, the Neutron, the K-2, the Pro1, the CAT, the WASP, the 2600, the MS-1, the RD-8, the RD-9 ... all for the same price as your mojo! 😆
It's not a missing point, it is just overhyped..I have a vintage synth,and paid $250 for it,which is great because it sure will cost three times that to fix a relic..That's like saying the Beetle was a great car yet it's GONE,so was it that great? Moog is DONE so did most people think it's was worth it? NO...
@@michaels8607 If you think Moog is done, especially the Model D, then you should check out the prices out there. Another point, I bought my Model D around 2007 when Uli Behringer had not considered cloning vintage synths, back then there was very little new analogue kit to be bought too. At the end of the day, something is only worth what the market supports and whether you agree with it or not, the vintage synth market is showing no signs of slowing down.
@@GNeuman Just when i think I found the dumbest person alive online, here comes another one to show me there's someone worse. How is the market NOT slowing down when Moog was doing so badly they got bought out to save the company? How is the market not slowing down when newer companies like Behringer are running RINGS around Moog. The ONLY reason any of those vintage synths are even talked about is because someone here and there has the money to OVER PAY for a relic. I do have a relic, yet I am fine with the $250 to be vintage, NOT $5000+ dollars for something falling apart. FACT is nogtagenius, if those relics were so great how come not even 10 of the companies still make them? They were available like the PAIA kits and others so that is a LIE. I do not have to agree, yet as someone intelligent I do stick with the FACTS and clear evidence. The MARKET does not need nor want 20 companies making to be analog relics. The Market wants the Montage which is why Yamaha, not Moog is winning. The ONLY people wanting relics are the same people talking about 'Voice Of The Theatre " speakers systems, who want to toss money to find and maintain them. I'm also a DJ since over 30 years ago,and I NEVER saw someone leave a club because they did not use a 'vintage' synth on a record.
Totally agree. What you didn't mention is that tuning a CS-80 is incredibly difficult and moving it or even changing the temperature is enough to throw it out of tune. So as fun as it is to play in perfect shape, it's not worth the price or the trouble. Especially now that you can get MPE synths with ribbon controllers for a tiny fraction of the money.
For hobby this seriously expensive and for most of us (including me) too much. Yet I wouldn't mind a Prophet 5 or MemoryMoog or both 😅 Got a nice combo (Jupiter 50,KingKorg,Subsequent 37) they compliment eachother very nicely imho. Top it off with TR-8s and mixer with per stem fx as global fx and I am very happy. The bunch cost me about €5000 (including a single and double X-stand,two active monitors by ADAM and Tascam mixer). Bought this over five or so years so pretty doable if you don't go on expensive vacations and drive used cars. That MemoryMoog 😂
Great stuff sir! I really enjoy your ‘’Top … Lists’’, I agree with most but would give the Universal Audio 1176 a definate Yes. Not seen the Alesis A6 before so that was interesting to see, again I pretty much agree with your take on older synths not being worth the time effort and expense, unless of course you are in that top percentile where money is no object and you can employ a Maintainance Person. You now got me thinking of hunting down an older eventide H3000 lol. Yeah please make more TDE lists. Love and Peace 🙏👍😎
Great. I consider this to be "part one". Now waiting for the next part that will include the Fairlight and the Synthex OR a completely new video that will showcase "Inexpensive gear that many professionals swear by".
Back at the turn of the 2000s when I slipped on the banana peel that brought me into the Wonderland of classic synthesizers, I was definitely curious about at least two of the models mentioned here, the Jupiter 8 and the Memorymoog Plus (honorable mention to the Xpander). Being kind of thick as a brick in the classic Jethro Tull sense of the expression, I didn’t realize there was already at least one comparable classic within arm’s reach through that stretch of time, the JX-8p. I was hung up on the prospect of getting a model that had voltage-controlled oscillators and complete front panel controllability. As of April 2024 when I am commenting, I still have yet to purchase any polyphonic synthesizer with those two attributes. All four of the analog polyphonic synthesizers I have owned since January 2004 have been DCO synths with menu-diving front panels. I still enjoy the sound, all the same.
I understand that. I have been rediscovering my analog synths, since starting the channel and reviewing them, but I wouldn't buy them at current prices.
New request : A review and grading of the new foot pedal units such as the Flamma drum machines and loopers and pedal effects such as the corrector and recorder as well as Roland/Boss loopers and effects such as the RC 500 and VE 8 etc.Just a simple list with your grading and analysis and perhaps a prediction of their usefulness 10 years from now.Best wishes from the Caribbean
Good idea. I don't know anyone with that gear, and I'm not sponsored by anyone. Still, I'll keep an eye out on my friend's gear, and perhaps it will happen.
The Universal Audio 1176 is a knock off copy too. It used to cost $700 not too many years ago. Universal Audio has nothing to do with the original Universal Recording Equipment (UREI) company that was sold to JBL, and is now particles somewhere in the Samsung universe. I have no idea how they created the image of being «the original», because they are not! It is the same kind of story as Telefunken. There is no link at all between the historic telefunken or any of the companies making microphones for them and the modern american company now calling themselves telefunken. They are just another copy-cat company bit with better marketing.
Makes me wonder if there is generation loss by the cloners taking DNA from the successive designs. And I believe making true vintage spec with modern supply chain is getting more challenging everyday.
fun to watch. But it does not really matter: if someone has money and wants it and loves it, he will buy and keep it. I sold skateboards in the past for prices what a juno 60 go for today. For a skateboard. I bought a TDE drumcomputer with he money :D And no regrets
If you're a small studio or bedroom producer, anything replicated in plugin format is worth getting over the hardware, whether it's a synth or outboard processors. Most plugins are within 98% range. Even the U87 can be replicated virtually now. It then boils down to the plugin manufacturers. Now that... is the next video. Is UAD worth the higher prices?
Yeah I agree with you, re: Xpander. It was to bring a modular synth into the 80s and did a great job. A holy grail rig in 1986 would’ve been a DX 7 Xpander Emulator kind of thing. But for 10k today? Doesn’t make sense to me. Never got to play a memory moog but I always heard that they were notoriously unreliable so never sought one out. I’m going to say $100k for a used CS80 isn’t worth it. At the end of the day I’m just going to end up sounding like the Blade Runner soundtrack. I see your point though it Is the defacto performance synth. And that’s kinda the point right? But what was needed and used creatively in 1976 still transfer to 2024? Am I going to rehearse a take over and over? No. I’m going to Frankenstein a comp take in a DAW. And in my mind that kind of defeats the purpose. But what the hell do I know, I’m just an old dude who likes top 11 videos.
Here is the PROOF over and over the old crap is only as good as if it's still working and relevant. We told you before your Moogs was amazing yet that would not matter in the real world, and we were right. The Montage is STILL here and getting MORE capability, and there are better basses and guitars that cost less. The FACT is the audience can care less who made the synth with most of them sounding close enough to be the same.Plus, since it's close enough, you can buy THREE NEW ONES for the price of ONE of most of the list.
You say the Yamaha NS10 originals don't sound very good but that was the point. It was said that once a mix sounded good on them it wopuld sound good on anything. I owned a pair and I actually thought they were pretty easy to mix on.
I have most of the pieces of gear in this video except the Yamaha CS and Andromeda....got the original 1176s, 1073s, etc. I have like 40 something vintage analog synths. I have most of the greats through history. Stuff like JP-8, Matrix-12, Chroma, Prophet 10, Memorymoog, Prophet VS, CODE 8, etc. I'll never turn them on again. It's over. They're not innovative enough to compete with AI. Nobody cares, nobody wants to hear these synths because they've heard it all before endlessly. People actually want to hear something new even if they won't tell you that. All that's left now is radically innovative genius new ideas that totally redefine music.
I'm pretty firm on what I said in the video, but as I say in the video, I changed my mind on the CS80, and on any random day I might say that it's not worth the price. That's how I'm feeling this morning. You could equip a nice home studio for $80,000.00. Appreciate your comment, sir.
It's Moog like "Rogue", "Vogue", etc. It's been a long time since I heard someone say "Mewg". The English guys held onto that for a long time because that's how the name is usually pronounced over there but even Nick at Sonicstate and everyone else is saying it correctly now. The reason Bob named a synth the "Rogue" is because he thought people would finally say his name right. Still people said "Mewg Rogue" and he hated it. That was 43 years ago. Just saying.
Wonderful list.Would include Linn Drum and Some early fender Rhodes and the NED synclavier
Some people have requested more TDE lists, and more is coming in the future.
Very good video. I think for the expensive classic synths it is worth to find a good rental service for those. So you can just rent them if you want to use them. Same for other gear which you don't need permanently.
Great idea, try before you buy. Thanks for the comment.
Thank you very very much ! Finally somebody who doesn't talk nonsense but true reality. No nervous Dr. Mix bla bla or Espen Kraft idiocy. Keep up the good work. You are right on top !!!!
Thanks, appreciate that.
Something like a Yamaha CS-80 can be a decent investment for a professional studio. They can insure it as a business expense. An musicians will record at a studio if there is some unique or useful gear there to use. And honestly, a vintage piece of equipment is going to be taken care of in a studio and enjoyed by a lot of musicians. Safe from the wear and tear of the road.
I really can’t see the cs80 going up much more, it’s out of just about everyone’s price range, it’s also hard to fix as well, and weighs a ton.
Good list! I've seen a few of your vids now. Really enjoy how you present your content! Subscribed!
Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for SUBSCRIBING... really appreciate it!!! So hard to get to 1000 subscribers.
Jeffrey, what you have hit on is the difference between buyers: Those that buy through the emotion of romance, and those who buy through the lens of pragmatism. You sound like the latter sir. Count me in that group too.
I try to be a pragmatist, thanks for the comment.
My favorite TDE is the Klon Centaur ... what a legend!! 🏇
Didn’t even like it back when it was cheap!
I love this! Pleas more TDE videos.
Thanks and thanks for the suggestion. I created a list of several dozen, so there will be more.
3:04 YES! I’ll keep my money and settle for the awesome introduction you gave it. My imagination just went crazy. Soo cool.
LOL, the first keyboard with AI is coming....beware. If it's called the T800/T101, run!
I think the one huge point missing in owning a vintage synth is that thing called "Mojo".
It was early 2000's before I got to play a Minimoog and when I did I just knew I had to have one. The physical presence, the wood, the smell of old electronics, the knobs and switches, all these things hit the senses differently to say standing in front of a Behringer D.
If all you want is a sonic recreation then fine, buy a VST, but I've never regretted buying my Minimoog and I always break out in a huge grin when I power her up.
That's funny I always break in a big grin whenever I play my Behringers because I got the Model D, the Neutron, the K-2, the Pro1, the CAT, the WASP, the 2600, the MS-1, the RD-8, the RD-9 ... all for the same price as your mojo! 😆
@@HazeAnderson I've also got the Behringer Pro1, CAT, 2600 and RD-6, they are great.
Why the snarkey comment?
It's not a missing point, it is just overhyped..I have a vintage synth,and paid $250 for it,which is great because it sure will cost three times that to fix a relic..That's like saying the Beetle was a great car yet it's GONE,so was it that great? Moog is DONE so did most people think it's was worth it? NO...
@@michaels8607
If you think Moog is done, especially the Model D, then you should check out the prices out there.
Another point, I bought my Model D around 2007 when Uli Behringer had not considered cloning vintage synths, back then there was very little new analogue kit to be bought too.
At the end of the day, something is only worth what the market supports and whether you agree with it or not, the vintage synth market is showing no signs of slowing down.
@@GNeuman
Just when i think I found the dumbest person alive online, here comes another one to show me there's someone worse. How is the market NOT slowing down when Moog was doing so badly they got bought out to save the company? How is the market not slowing down when newer companies like Behringer are running RINGS around Moog. The ONLY reason any of those vintage synths are even talked about is because someone here and there has the money to OVER PAY for a relic.
I do have a relic, yet I am fine with the $250 to be vintage, NOT $5000+ dollars for something falling apart. FACT is nogtagenius, if those relics were so great how come not even 10 of the companies still make them? They were available like the PAIA kits and others so that is a LIE. I do not have to agree, yet as someone intelligent I do stick with the FACTS and clear evidence.
The MARKET does not need nor want 20 companies making to be analog relics. The Market wants the Montage which is why Yamaha, not Moog is winning. The ONLY people wanting relics are the same people talking about 'Voice Of The Theatre " speakers systems, who want to toss money to find and maintain them. I'm also a DJ since over 30 years ago,and I NEVER saw someone leave a club because they did not use a 'vintage' synth on a record.
Totally agree. What you didn't mention is that tuning a CS-80 is incredibly difficult and moving it or even changing the temperature is enough to throw it out of tune. So as fun as it is to play in perfect shape, it's not worth the price or the trouble. Especially now that you can get MPE synths with ribbon controllers for a tiny fraction of the money.
Didn't know about the tuning. I've played the CS, but I've never owned it. Thanks for the comment.
For hobby this seriously expensive and for most of us (including me) too much.
Yet I wouldn't mind a Prophet 5 or MemoryMoog or both 😅
Got a nice combo (Jupiter 50,KingKorg,Subsequent 37) they compliment eachother very nicely imho. Top it off with TR-8s and mixer with per stem fx as global fx and I am very happy. The bunch cost me about €5000 (including a single and double X-stand,two active monitors by ADAM and Tascam mixer).
Bought this over five or so years so pretty doable if you don't go on expensive vacations and drive used cars.
That MemoryMoog 😂
Same here, I stretched to a prophet Vs a few years back, but there’s no way I could get a PPG Wave, or CS80.
Great stuff sir! I really enjoy your ‘’Top … Lists’’, I agree with most but would give the Universal Audio 1176 a definate Yes. Not seen the Alesis A6 before so that was interesting to see, again I pretty much agree with your take on older synths not being worth the time effort and expense, unless of course you are in that top percentile where money is no object and you can employ a Maintainance Person.
You now got me thinking of hunting down an older eventide H3000 lol.
Yeah please make more TDE lists.
Love and Peace
🙏👍😎
I have more TDE lists coming. I've always wanted an H3000, hope you get one. Thanks for the comment.
Great. I consider this to be "part one". Now waiting for the next part that will include the Fairlight and the Synthex OR a completely new video that will showcase "Inexpensive gear that many professionals swear by".
Thanks for the idea on the budget gear. I can only think of a few items, but I'll ask some friends.
As an unconditional Fripp fan I'd love to own an Eventide H8000. Alas . . . .
More TDE lists would be interesting … !!
I have a DSP4500, which is pretty awesome! 😎👌🏼
More coming. Thanks for the comment.
I also heard the Andromedas voice chips are prone to dying which can make replacing them very difficult.
Yes, I've heard the same thing. Appreciate the comment.
Back at the turn of the 2000s when I slipped on the banana peel that brought me into the Wonderland of classic synthesizers, I was definitely curious about at least two of the models mentioned here, the Jupiter 8 and the Memorymoog Plus (honorable mention to the Xpander). Being kind of thick as a brick in the classic Jethro Tull sense of the expression, I didn’t realize there was already at least one comparable classic within arm’s reach through that stretch of time, the JX-8p. I was hung up on the prospect of getting a model that had voltage-controlled oscillators and complete front panel controllability. As of April 2024 when I am commenting, I still have yet to purchase any polyphonic synthesizer with those two attributes. All four of the analog polyphonic synthesizers I have owned since January 2004 have been DCO synths with menu-diving front panels. I still enjoy the sound, all the same.
I understand that. I have been rediscovering my analog synths, since starting the channel and reviewing them, but I wouldn't buy them at current prices.
New request : A review and grading of the new foot pedal units such as the Flamma drum machines and loopers and pedal effects such as the corrector and recorder as well as Roland/Boss loopers and effects such as the RC 500 and VE 8 etc.Just a simple list with your grading and analysis and perhaps a prediction of their usefulness 10 years from now.Best wishes from the Caribbean
Good idea. I don't know anyone with that gear, and I'm not sponsored by anyone. Still, I'll keep an eye out on my friend's gear, and perhaps it will happen.
I wondered if the Neumann might be on the list I can’t afford it but the United Studio Tech clone seems to be viable
It is TDE. It is a great mic, but I know I'm somewhat biased. Thanks for the comment.
The Universal Audio 1176 is a knock off copy too. It used to cost $700 not too many years ago. Universal Audio has nothing to do with the original Universal Recording Equipment (UREI) company that was sold to JBL, and is now particles somewhere in the Samsung universe. I have no idea how they created the image of being «the original», because they are not! It is the same kind of story as Telefunken. There is no link at all between the historic telefunken or any of the companies making microphones for them and the modern american company now calling themselves telefunken. They are just another copy-cat company bit with better marketing.
Makes me wonder if there is generation loss by the cloners taking DNA from the successive designs. And I believe making true vintage spec with modern supply chain is getting more challenging everyday.
Thanks for the background.
fun to watch. But it does not really matter: if someone has money and wants it and loves it, he will buy and keep it. I sold skateboards in the past for prices what a juno 60 go for today. For a skateboard. I bought a TDE drumcomputer with he money :D And no regrets
Thanks, and appreciate you sharing.
If you're a small studio or bedroom producer, anything replicated in plugin format is worth getting over the hardware, whether it's a synth or outboard processors. Most plugins are within 98% range. Even the U87 can be replicated virtually now. It then boils down to the plugin manufacturers. Now that... is the next video. Is UAD worth the higher prices?
All good points, and I do have some videos coming up that look at the software. Thanks for the comment.
Also TDC: Too damn cheap. For example Shure SM58, zoom ms-70cdr, Microfreak
I have something similar coming up. Thanks for the suggestion.
MemoryMoog and MiniMoog are not the same circuit design... just FYI...
Yeah I agree with you, re: Xpander. It was to bring a modular synth into the 80s and did a great job. A holy grail rig in 1986 would’ve been a DX 7 Xpander Emulator kind of thing. But for 10k today? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Never got to play a memory moog but I always heard that they were notoriously unreliable so never sought one out.
I’m going to say $100k for a used CS80 isn’t worth it. At the end of the day I’m just going to end up sounding like the Blade Runner soundtrack.
I see your point though it Is the defacto performance synth. And that’s kinda the point right? But what was needed and used creatively in 1976 still transfer to 2024? Am I going to rehearse a take over and over? No. I’m going to Frankenstein a comp take in a DAW.
And in my mind that kind of defeats the purpose.
But what the hell do I know, I’m just an old dude who likes top 11 videos.
Some great points, thanks for the comment.
Here is the PROOF over and over the old crap is only as good as if it's still working and relevant. We told you before your Moogs was amazing yet that would not matter in the real world, and we were right. The Montage is STILL here and getting MORE capability, and there are better basses and guitars that cost less. The FACT is the audience can care less who made the synth with most of them sounding close enough to be the same.Plus, since it's close enough, you can buy THREE NEW ONES for the price of ONE of most of the list.
You say the Yamaha NS10 originals don't sound very good but that was the point. It was said that once a mix sounded good on them it wopuld sound good on anything. I owned a pair and I actually thought they were pretty easy to mix on.
I understand your point, and that is why lots of people love them.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Agreed.
"This is a cute little effects processor from Eventide."
Err ... what?!? LOL 😅
LOL. Yeah, I've heard it, and it is "really" good, but I'm not sure it's $8,000.00 good. Appreciate your comment.
lol great video
Thanks! 😁
It's not Newman or Neumann, it's just Neumann.
"Hello Newman ... " 😒
Auralex Max-Wall system anyone?
Thanks for subscribing.
I have most of the pieces of gear in this video except the Yamaha CS and Andromeda....got the original 1176s, 1073s, etc.
I have like 40 something vintage analog synths. I have most of the greats through history. Stuff like JP-8, Matrix-12, Chroma, Prophet 10, Memorymoog, Prophet VS, CODE 8, etc.
I'll never turn them on again. It's over.
They're not innovative enough to compete with AI. Nobody cares, nobody wants to hear these synths because they've heard it all before endlessly. People actually want to hear something new even if they won't tell you that.
All that's left now is radically innovative genius new ideas that totally redefine music.
It's very sad, but I agree. Sounds like a great collection, even if only you will hear it. Appreciate the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Thanks for understanding, I think it's hard to understand what I am saying.
Still if the CS-80 comes in on 80 000 bucks almost 1000000 SEK it cant be worth it😮
I'm pretty firm on what I said in the video, but as I say in the video, I changed my mind on the CS80, and on any random day I might say that it's not worth the price. That's how I'm feeling this morning. You could equip a nice home studio for $80,000.00. Appreciate your comment, sir.
It's Moog like "Rogue", "Vogue", etc. It's been a long time since I heard someone say "Mewg". The English guys held onto that for a long time because that's how the name is usually pronounced over there but even Nick at Sonicstate and everyone else is saying it correctly now. The reason Bob named a synth the "Rogue" is because he thought people would finally say his name right. Still people said "Mewg Rogue" and he hated it. That was 43 years ago. Just saying.