How to get a good FORWARD STANCE
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2021
- Hi
In this weeks video I will show you a very cool way to get a good athletic forward stance. Not only will it give you a good forward oriented stance, it is a lot of fun to do. And it works. Because you cannot jump without being bent forwards.
You need to be forward in order to be able to pressure the front parts of your skis for a good grip both when carving and brushing your turns. Actually it is good for wedging as well. All kind of skiing. The general rule is, you can never bee to forwards.
Ski safely, Tom - Sport
THAT IS GREAT!!! SO PERFECT FOR " ANY SKIER" to feel what that position should feel like.
thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching :)
Very clear and easy for skiers to feel the athletic position;
I will use this thanks.
Thanks and thanks for watching. Cheers :)
Thanks Tom, great exercise, I can see using this as part of warm-up both for stance and to get the blood flowing. I will try it with some of my masters racers this week.
Great ide to have it as a part of a warm up. Im gonna steal that tip from you, thanks! My warm up routine builds around actual skiing skills and movements for that double benefit. And everything we do we always do with our skis on. Good ide for a new video :) And yes, thanks for watching.
Genius! Thanks Tom!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching :)
I've used a backwards wedge for students, but never the little jump exercise. I can't wait to try it! Thanks!
Thanks for watching. Yes me also. Been wedging backwards all my life but this was new
@@Triggerboy62 I think one of the great things about this drill, vs. the simple backwards wedge, is that it could help a newer skier with flexing/extending movements while staying forward properly. You can't jump with some extension, and you can't land and stay forward without flexing your knees/ankles/hips. Everything as to be in balance when you land.
@@Triggerboy62 Tried it today and really loved it. Has to be fairly shallow terrain for a new skier though. You could use this for a lot of things, but it could really help take some skiers to the next level. It helps get you into a strong, aggressive posture.
You are the best. Many youtube videos on carving/skiing confuse me. Then I come back here where it all makes sense...
Thanks! Yes, I also feel that many videos do not make much sense to me either. But its not only the videos, this is the situation out on the hill also. Many coaches and instructors are explaining stuff that sound like a foreign language I dont understand. Im not saying they are wrong, just that we do speak different languages. A jr racer that is now showing great progress came from an other club and at first he was just shaking his head and said he had no clue to as what I said. Then he skied off shaking his head.... Same last week at a carving clinic where I was a stand in coach. The adult students said my lesson was totally different. Not bad, but totally different hahaaa.... not sure how I should relate.... I think that skiing, like most sports, consists of building blocks. You should work on these different blocks separately and then combine them. And coach essential movements, not wiggeling your toes or a feeling in your head. I basically teach the way I have been taught by coaches and instructors that made sense to me and inspired me. Trying to pass that on. Thanks again for watching and giving thumbs up for my videos. Cheers, Tom
Thanks for the very simple and efficient one solution...!!! You are the best...!!!
You're welcome! And thanks for such good words, Tom
Great video! Looks fun. Will try in a few weeks.
Another exercise or actually more of a mental image I've heard of and tried is to stand as a football (soccer) goal keeper ready to catch a penalty kick. Every muscle, joint and nerve becomes ready for what ever action will be needed.
Yes, the soccer goal keeper is a good mental image. An other one is a tennis player returning serves.
Clear instruction even without my skis on! Thank u
You're welcome!
Excellent drill. Many thanks.
You are welcome!
Excellent! Will try tomorrow - thx!
Great. Please let me know how it worked. And yes, thanks for watching :)
Clever! Yeah, this is a keeper. Thank you!
Glad you like it!
What a great tip! Thanks!
You are so welcome!
Excellent. SImple and effective.
Thanks Tom, appreciate your support :)
Thank you .I’m gonna To try that on my next Coaching session
Please do! And please, tell me how it worked :)
As a US east coast skier, I am so jealous you are uploading this right now...I wish I had snow to ski
Sorry to hear your season is over. We still have snow but only one week left here in the south of Finland. Up north at least one month left but corona restrictions might kick in....
That is why Killington is amazing. It might be mashed potatoes but we're not stopping anytime soon
こんなドリル日本では見たことないです。
とても参考になります
I have never seen this drill in japan.
it helps me a lot!
Thanks for watching and glad I could point you to something new. Reg. Tom
Good drill. I’m stealing this one!
Please do! And thanks for watching. More to come :)
As an instructor I asked the question. What is your stance when you jump off a chair and land on the floor? Your uphill hops are an excellent “hands on” drill that’s great.
Thanks and thanks for watching :)
How fantastic and brilliant. 🎉
Thank you! Cheers!
Great tip!!
Thanks for watching!
I’ve never seen this, so thank you. I’ve been looking for a way to help my 11yr old son to feel the athletic stance, without success. This is great. Thanks.
Fantastic! It was new to me also and I was equally happy to find it. Thanks for watching and please let me know how it worked out :)
@@Triggerboy62 will do. We’ve just finished our season. Hopefully we can leave Australia for our summer and your winter and jump up to Japan.
It will be the first drill for him and me. Stay safe and kick it for your upcoming season.
i think it is a standard drill at race camps in the US
@@urbanrunoff good to know. I had never seen it. Please suggest any others you think are good for young racers.
Good way!!!
Thanks :)
Best of the best
Thanks! Happy Holidays, Triggerboy & Team
Nice drill. From my personal point of view it may lead to a too much forward bowed upper body. But as I am a tall skier I have to bent my legs stronger and a too much bowed upper body makes it more difficult to move the knees to the center of the turn. So I simply have to keep that in mind by doing the drill.
Thanks for sharing! Yes, body shape and type affect our skiing very much. I am quite tall, 190cm and for me it works great. Try it. If it doesn't work no harm done :)
@@Triggerboy62 Thtat’s funny, I am also 1,90 m 😘 I try it for sure. 😉
Thought about the drill a bit more and tried it. It works. But: three easy things help me to stay low and to control myself to maintain in an athletic stance - as well as to be in motion along the whole turn.
1. I lead my elbow under my hand towards the pole plant.
2. Then I extremely concentrate on rolling the ankle joints and knees under my hip.
3. After the transition my other elbow already starts to „pull“ my upper body to the outside of the new turn.
Always enjoy your videos!
Do you have fb group / instagram page etc?
No FB group but an IG page: Triggerboy62. We usually post behind the scenes or cell phone clips there. At the moment we have not been very active as Chris, the young ski racer is in the army right now and we have all these Corona restrictions. But check us out over there :)
Good exercise Tom, show a Sagittal plane view.
Yes, I know but that never struck me when shooting the video. So Im editing and have two takes of everything but not a side view. I have a new cameraman by the way :)
What camera did you get?
@@mieshavonedellestein1304 sony ax53 and ax700.
That uphill hop is rarely seen outside Australia.
Interesting. So it is an Australian drill? Well I have never heard of that drill before. I was actually told by somebody today that it is common in Japan. Do you know if that is true? Thank you for watching by the way and please drop me an email when you have time, kind reg Tom
@@Triggerboy62 I was thinking mainly of kangaroos, not skiing. Yes, will get in touch.
Hahaa.... next project "dolphin turns" :)
Smth new!!) 👍👌
Thanks for watching and glad to be able to come up with something new. More to come :)
like it
Thanks for watching :)
Yeah but what about if you are too far forward? I tend to rush forward extension at the top of the turn and it really bothers me since its a subtle timing thing not something you can easily drill for. Although the ski poles crossed behind the back drill seems to make it go away entirely.
I bet this would also be great for beginners learning to herring bone up the hill. Beginners always seem to immediately find their edges or are destined to struggle helpless for untold hours no matter how it is explained. I think it has a lot to do with weight distribution and actively flexing your boots. This kinda forces you to both flex your boots and push through the balls of your feet.
Another good drill would be a slide slide into an edged traverse using only boot flexion no edging movements. You have to push your knee forward to do this insuring your weight is forward. You also have to flex both your ankles and knees keeping you from being too upright. So the stance you hit to go from side sliding to a craved traverse is the ideal athletic forward stance for every turn transition. We did this at summer camp (Mount Hood) for like an entire day and it was super boring but by the end of the day everyone was skiing several fold better than they were at the start.
Yes, too far forwards is also not good. But If you look at Chris on the thumb nail you can see that he is very far forwards. Much more than today in fact. That frame is from a video a few years back. So staying equally forward during the transition and the turn itself is difficult if you do not work enough with your legs. People saying that flexing to release and carving with retraction turns should not be tiring on your muscles is bogus. I do 5 full power carving turns like that on a steep groomer and I am totally exhausted. And so are WC ski racers after a 60 sec run. Flexing and extending should be done with legs. However, if you look at my 3 Levels of Carving video you can see that retraction turns belong at Level 3. Before that you should extend at transition. Level 3 is the pro level.
The problem you are talking about, extending too quickly, if I understood you correctly, is normal. I actually have a video on my work list that tangents this topic. I was wondering why my skiing was off at the start of the season. Made a quick comparison with Chris, the jr Im coaching, and found out that I rushed the turn initiation. Too much pressure and extension at the start of the turn. Trying to turn tighter and quickly go into high edge angles. Instead, let your skis run straight and incline into the turn lowering your CoM and hips towards the snow. All of a sudden the skis start carving as they are tipped on high edge angles and the result is higher edge angles and a lot tighter turn. It has to do with my Google View video lesson. Check it out if you have time.
If the drill with the ski poles crossed behind your back works then great, that is the drill. However, it rices your back up much more straight but that only forces you to use your legs to flex and extend and not brake at your waist. Hirscher was an expert on that.
I do not quite understand the drill you are talking about in the 3rd section. Please expand.
reg Tom
Everything is correct, and when loading the boot forward, work only with the shin, and completely relax the foot...
it works jumping backwards as well and easier to demonstrate forward stance
Thanks for the tip, I will try it out this weekend. And thanks for watching :)
@@Triggerboy62 thanks, it also activates ankles and knees
Tom was that you that spun that 360?
Thanks for asking but no, that was Chris, I'm Tom, the coach :)
So this is more about upper body position than pressure on the front of the boot?
I think that the upper body position is much more important than people think. And that pressure on the front of the boot is kind of over rated. Because in different turn phases you either pressure the front of the boot or you don't. But you should always be forward oriented with your upper body. Even when sitting in the toilet seat position. If you have seen the "Stay Low" video. BTW, thanks for watching this video and it is actually very important. I use this method nowadays to help my jr ski racers find their right position. It is different for all of us. Cheers, T
@@Triggerboy62 Fantastic explanation. You have a gift!
@Triggerboy62 STAY LOW was the first of your videos I watched. Being 57 I am definitely fighting the up weighting habit I grew up using. I noticed that through the transition the upper body is upright with almost a 90 degree bend in the knees. Is this really only in gates or on cruisers as well?
I tell people I'm teaching that being outside with your weight over outside ski=being forward
That is absolutely correct. Great comment, Cheers
I'm a little confused - in your videos on carving you say that the athletic stance is outdated.
Good point. I should have made a better explanation. The athletic forward stance as a coaching cue has lead to the falce belief that this stance is to be kept through out the entire turn with no flexing into transition. So keep your forward stance but flex into transition. Cheers, Tom
Staying forward is dynamic. As you finish the turn, especially if you are really fight gravity on a long turn across the fall line, you will naturally get pushed back. They way I fight this is when I release a turn, and am starting the new turn above the fall line, I purposely fall forward and downhill over my new inside ski. This forces me to really engage the new edges so that the skis will "catch up with my body". You see this motion with top level skiers, especially in GS. It looks like they are driving their body straight downhill early in the turn....
Thanks for watching and great comment. Cheers, Tom
@@Triggerboy62 one thing I notice when I can observe my own tracks is the turns where I ended up too far back are always started late and finished late relative to the fall line. The high load part of the turn, as indicated by how prominent/deep the edge grooves are in the snow (in med and softer snow) is at or below the fall line on poor turns. The reason you get pushed back is the forces are doubling up on you. You have the turn forces plus gravity.
The turns where I was "over the ski" were started well before the fall line. In many cases, on a good turn, by the time I am at or past the fall line, the edge load is already diminishing.
In other words, making a fast transition to the new edges, and getting edge load well before the fall line is the best way to not get back on the skis. Let gravity help your turn, not fight it.
It is a crazy feeling that is very foreign to lower level skiers. You are actually starting your turn with your outside ski very much UPHILL, and your overall inclination is leaning DOWN the hill. This is what I meant by fallig down over the new inside ski. The only thing that keeps you from falling down the hill on your side is very high edge angles that push your body faster than gravity pulls it.
This is one thing I have determined that differentiates FIS level races from local level racers....
Try really really over-exaggerating this. When you finish strongly carved turns, make your transition quick and start that new turn upside down....so you are turning down the hill hard. When doing this you have to go from edge to edge fast...you should go from one set to the other in less than one ski length.
You will also find that one direction may be substantially better. I am right hand/leg dominant, yet I get on the left ski (right turn) way earlier. This is because my left turn edge is harder, so I get much more energy/toppling, and I am more confident with my right leg as the new inside ski. So I load up the left ski, relative to the fall line, much earlier.
A lot going on.....
We gotta get you some goggles that fit your helmet.
Please do :)
To confirm the correctness of your words, you can (violating the rules of lifting on a rope) climb in slalom - the difference will surprise even specialists, which will be another proof of the correctness of skiing in the front stance...
Wow, I have not understood your comment before just now, thats why I have not replied. What great advice. Thanks :)
@@Triggerboy62 Forgive me my bad English.
Hola crack
Hola, whatz up :)
Yeah, I don't think I agree with this. Excessive flexion at the hips limits the turning of the legs and tipping of the skis. Too much bending in the lumbar area of the spine will keep you square to your skis. Too much ankle flexion limits your range of motion of pressure control. Other than that, he's spot on.
Fair enough! But I'm also not a big fan of ankle flexion. I think there is less ankle flexing going on than people think. For instance in bump skiing. But same goes for carving. Thanks for watching.
Essentially, you can never be TOO far forward when skiing. When a recreational skier feels like he/she will fall flat on their face, they are pretty much in the right position. Expert skiers get more and more relaxed with this forward (Superman/flying) position. Racers have intense bending at the waste with arms thrust forwards because at such high speeds this is necessary to counter even the slightest terrain pitch change.
You might consider that your boot sole has a mark that is the mid-point of the sole. When the bindings are mounted, that mid-length mark is placed where the ski manufacturer recommends, based on side-cut and camber pattern. They may have painted "Stand Here" on that mark. I'm curious to learn how trying to get "too far forward" helps the ski perform.
@@daddygoggles it has to do with slope pitch. Your center of mass (fore/aft) is evenly positioned when your body is perpendicular to the slope. To get there you need to push against the tongue of the boot. To get to this place you flex the angles, bend the knees, and allow the chest to move forward over the ball of the foot. That’s it; a rough written approximation.
@@Triggerboy62 hello Tom. I agree with you about bump skiing. But I disagree about carving, I think there ankle flexing there is quite important. May be a new topic about this?
I appreciate your info and content re: fwd stance position on your channel...however, i believe that forward stance is related to areas where the foot pressure are...re front, middle and back...Tom Gellie has an excellent video on Carv ..
czcams.com/video/6sdEFYz7i2g/video.html
Previously I believed the forward pressure was always good right through the whole process of the turn, ie on all the time..however he confirmed what I started to to do 2 years back was correct. It helped me handle super icy conditions which was my weakness RE: you only apply fwd pressure at the atart of the turn right into the pressure phase.therefore front of the foot and forefoot feels it...as you progress pass the belly of the turn you gradually starting to release the edge and allow the pressure to drift towards the heals as you transition. This helps if you flex to release ...re Hircher...Zubcic ..but you don't stay there as once you go into engagement stage again you drive you heals behind your hips especially the free foot ,to get it fwd again at the top of the high C.
That's all true; but, for me even thinking about the heels shows a problem. They are working for sure; but, the focus is more forward. I was surprised to see how pushed down my heel beds were. The mind thinks one thing. The body is technically doing it a little different. We find that in music too. There can be too much information, even though it's correct. The easy way is just not be thinking about it.
@@normalizedaudio2481 i've been through harbskisystems program too...and really in transition all i think about it flexing and keeping the heals pulled back.
Thanks for watching and for the extensive feedback. This was only supposed to be like a "short tip" on how to get forwards but as I made the video I realized that I only scratched the surface and there was so much unsaid. Like I never really got into "why" a forward stance or even more importantly "when". But you already pointed that out so you know about it. If you look at the short clip of Chris carving at 0:40 I think it was, you can see that he is flexing his legs for a deep retraction transition while extending his outside leg into the turn but at the same time still maintaining his "forward oriented upper body" position. So the pressure distribution fore/aft on a high performance level is not a question of how forward or upright your upper body is, you distribute the pressure along the ski by flexing and extending. Or rather "extending and flexing" as those two relate to fore/aft. Extend your outside leg into the turn to move the pressure progressively towards your boots, front part of the skis and lastly to the tip. This is why being forwards oriented is so important, you get forward pressure on your skis earlier and you never really sit back as much even if you flex 90deg at your knees during transition. And when flexing the same thing. Your pressure moves aft along the ski as you flex. Just like you guys pointed out. And Tom Gellie in his video. I always get a kick out of listening to the WC commentators saying that a racer had his weight too far back. That he was sitting in the back seat. This is not really true in the sense that all skiers sit back at almost every transition. Its a timing issue. They did not extend quick enough. It's a timing issue. Not a back seat issue. Did you guys see my "Secret moves in ski racing" videos with Marco Schwarz? Are we on the same page? reg. Tom
By the way, Im testing the CARV system and have a CARV session tomorrow. I will try to focus on the fore/aft pressure and see how that turns out.
Thanks for watching and for your comment. Could you please explain a bit more in detail. You are pulling back the heels, both of them? At the same time or separately? Only the heel of the leg you are flexing? Or the one you are extending?
The human body is preprogrammed to assume an athletic position when necessary. Overly stiff ski boots make it very difficult, making it necessary to reprogram the body. Stiff boots don't make you ski better. They're an impediment to skiing better for the average skier. Modern ski instruction is essentially a system to overcome this unnecessary impediment.
Unless you're a ski racer, get soft boots and save the hassle of reprogramming millions of years of evolution.
Yeah, too stiff ski boots are not good for any ones skiing. Im using 130s but they are quite stiff compared to other brand 130s so I could easily go a bit softer. Chris is on 150s but he is a racer and need stiff boots. At some point he is going to go stiffer as well but for the time being we are sticking to 150's. I think also that everyone should experiment more with how they buckle up. And how they use the booster strap. Does it go over the boot shell or just the linear? How tight is the top buckle and how does foot flex vary if you use an other linear. You can also cut off plastic from the inside of the shell. Ive done that. I need to make a video of my Dalbellos. Major modifications :)
So, is the test to see if my knees are over my toes in my neutral ski position?