What Is The Daedalus Class?
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2023
- Today we delve back into the world of the 22nd century to look at a ship which while constantly in the background, was never given any time in the limelight and was notably absent from Star Trek Enterprise despite being set at a time where this ship, The Iconic Daedalus Class would be active.
Today i take a real in depth look at this ship, its various fan-interpretations and my own head canon to work out exactly what this ship is...
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I'd like to imagine if Enterprise had gone on for its full 7 seasons, we would've seen the Daedalus in action.
Yep. That was probably the original idea... even having such ships be the ships that tested the NX things put on the Enterprise before it got them.
I've been trying to figure out where ST:E fits into all of this. I know the community is split on liking/disliking Enterprise but the Kelvin tineline trilogy acknowledged that show as canon, so they both clearly exist in the shows.
I happened to have quite liked Enterprise...
@@jaysonlima7196 I loved it, into ST:E made me merely like it by breaking a LOT from the full, rich history of Star Trek canon that they could have easily explored by just making their own sh^t up... the Sulobon, the Expanse, the temporal (cold) war, etc. I should have just expected it when they made the NX Enterprise look like that WWII aircraft prototype that nearly flopped... what was dubbed "the flying flapjack".
@@jaysonlima7196 Its final season proved its potential, but by then it was too late. The same thing happened to ST Picard.
There's another star trek CZcamsr named TriAngulum Audio Studios who did a video on what he thinks happened, and I like his interpretation.
Basically the Daedalus were early 22nd century starships (before the NX-class) for the new slowly blooming spacefaring human civilization, at a time before it was known that the saucer was the most efficient warp shape. They could barely do warp 3 and mostly served as cargo haulers and colonizer ships.
Then the Earth-Romulan war happened and, needing hulls, Starfleet pulled these ships out of mothballs and/or rear sevice echelons and refitted them up to the new standard. After the war they played a crucial role in setting up infrastructure throughout the new Federation, and are thus looked upon fondly as pioneers in those early days.
just don't criticize his videos
@@warwolf88 honestly you could say that about a lot of Star Trek youtubers.
@@pyronuke4768 probably but nothing says they have to respond to u they could just as easily ignore u
Requiring a saucer is straight retarded. That's not a thing in trek.
One major detail that you seem to have missed - the NX-class (saucer-based) ships were designed to operate in atmosphere, albeit poorly in many cases, whereas the Daedelus class - and its precursors and any forbears - are designed specifically to be space-only. They are meant to be the 'workhorses' of the fleet, carrying out whatever jobs the big fancy ships were too busy for. Nice job on the Fusion-based history; Zephram Cochrane didn't have access to Dilithium so this makes a lot of sense.
The Daedalus in the post Romulan war era sounds a lot like what the Excelsior was in the TNG era. A past it's prime workhorse that supported the fleet.
Yeah, with the "What's a long time for a star ship?" I was like... 100 years according to Excelsior!
@@gearandalthefirst7027 The TNG technical manual said the Galaxy class had a projected lifespan of a century.
Do not blaspheme the Excelsior class like that.
@@gearandalthefirst7027 with the latest upgrades, the B-52 is going to have a 100-year operational life. It's not that far-fetched, with upgrades.
And the Miranda.
My headcannon is that the Dadelous was a pre-federation class of ships originally intended for establishing human colonies and providing support to those fledgling colonies. The Daedalus would bring colonists and supplies to a new world and hang out in orbit for a year or so until the colony was up and running. These were protocols put in place after the loss of contact with Tera Nova. It was a rugged design for the time, and during the Romulan War, it was found that they could be easily retrofitted with the newer technology, going from an original maximum warp of 3.5 when first launched to 4.75 after refit. Unlike the NX class, with everything custom build and hardwired into the ship, the Daedalus was easily modifiable and upgradable. By the end of the war, it would have far exceeded the capabilities of the original NX-01 (by the end of the war the NX-01 would also have advanced as well, having been retrofitted with a full engineering section). The design was much like the Excelsior, in that it ended up staying in service for a very long time. There were a lot of Daedalus class ships still in service for the birth of the federation and the Daedalus probably played a role much like the Excelsior in the TNG era. There were newer and more capable ships in the fleet at that time, but it was an old and proven design. It would have been kind of a generation 0.5 with the ships being built at that time being generation 1. In regards to timeline, I would put the original Connie Enterprise as one of the first of the Generation 3 ships of the Federation, which would have also included the Miranda and Constellation classes. The actual Excelsior would have heralded in the Generation 4 ships which would have ended with the Ambassador Class, and the Galaxy Class heralded in the Federation's Generation 5 ships.
That was a very well stated and plausible scenario. An overall excellent take on this specific subject! I wish more people responded like you. Thank you!
Excellent record keeping
for a human.
I have bit different theory. So as we do know NX was build as answer to failure of previous NX ship, what fall apart during the tests. This ship was Freedom class, better known as Franklin type. But Freedom similarly as NX was dedicated explorer. It make sense that alongside it Starfleet wanted multi-purpose ship. And Ganges we do see in the show was refit of older Neptune aka Emmette type (what in original configuration was Warp 2). So it make sense that this ship was Dedalus. But as project failed and NX was redesigned as way larges ship. Dedalus was canceled. BUT! With improvements of Warp 5 tech and need for mass produced design, Dedalus was most likely restarted and as rather cheap but advanced ship. Survive reduction of Starfleet after the war. Because how omnipresent, cheap and universal it was. It stay in the service.
Though I do like idea of the First Lost Era. So here is what I think:
1) DY-100 was a prototype build with recovered alien tech (from Quark shuttle) in the 1990's.
2) Though we do have technological pollution (confirmed by Picard) at least until 2030's, our space development isn't that much more further. Then from now. Humanity reach and start colonizing Mars during Ares Project.
3) Prior to First Contact in 2063. Humanity most likely restart construction of DY-class ships. Due to intensive colonization of the Mars. What is then stooped by nuclear war on Earth.
4) Anyway. Because Earth already has working infrastructure construction of Discovery/Conestoga ships and J-class freighters started immediately after that. Those evolve into Neptune/Emmette class probably around 2100. But generally those were fancier ships used by government.
5) I do see though various smaller shipyards. Making smaller colony ships, what open door to Starflet Museum designs. They could for example were made in Bajkonur, what is known from Oberth class. What if you think share lot of design elements with Dedalus.
6) In 2140's Starfleet form and all those shipyards are incorporated under shared command. During Romulan War I do see Dedalus being picked for construction in various civilian shipyards. As it was smaller and simpler design then NX series ships. It is why it end being made in huge numbers.
I quite like it. Good stories inspire creative fans to come up with great head-cannons and explanations. Part of why I consider the term “fan fiction” to be neutral rather than negative. There might be a lot of dumb, low quality stuff out there, but then you have fans who really put in the time and thought.
The Beta-canon Romulan War novels say something very similar. In these books it’s stated plainly that Daedalus-class ships were older, but could be constructed faster and in greater quantities than NX/Columbia class starships, which were more advanced, but more logistically difficult and slower to produce. I think that has to be the most viable explanation.
I see the Daedalus a bit like the T-34. The IS-2 tank was far better than the T-34, but the T-34 could be built faster, cheaper and in more significant numbers to make up for being less advance.
If you are fighting a war and for every NX/Columbia class, you could build, let's say, 20 Daedalus-class to fill out the fleets and the front lines
@@freddyswThe beta cannon stated 3 daedelus can be produced for every 1 nx
I like this, I like it very much. We rarely if ever see such considerations for the Federation in Star Trek.
An untapped mine of Potential I say. I love this thing. Daedalus class is my jam. Glad it's finally being covered here. It deserves better than it got honestly
It suffered from the late 2100s, early 2200s issues,.. Restrictive design commission, lack of range, rapid pace of upgrading/incorporating "new federation sourced tech" (namely the transporter, matter replicator and phaser, plus polarized hulls to full energy shielding)
we all know there is a dominion war version somewhere LOL.
Not gonna lie if discovery deadass showed a Daedalus in the 32nd century somewhere in that spacedock I woulda shat myself 😂
The best theory I can come up with for the Deadalus design is that the ball section was a hang-over from earlier starships. The ball was found to not work as efficiently with warp field geometry as a ship with a saucer section so by the time of Star Trek: Enterprise had largely been decomissioned. These ships were essentially laid up in reserve and/or waiting to be scrapped. By the time of the Earth - Romulan war most of these ships would be in various states of disrepair but since it makes sense for scrapping teams to get through the more danger prone sections like propulsion and engineering before tackling the rest of the ships, the ball sections would largely still be intact. As such they would be prime candidates for a quick and dirty rush job of a modernisation program that then results in the Deadalus class as a class of ships thrown together, largely from older parts to make up the numbers in this war.
The Deadalus class design looks like the result of a high speed colision between TOS Enterprise and the Discovery from 2001: A Space Odyssey. I can't help but think of that movie when I see a ship design featuring a front 'ball' section. That and 'Blue Danube'.
Starfleet museum awaits you... admission is free, the info is priceless
I see it as being more of a freighter/transport given the massive sphere it would be good at transporting stuff.
I like it when the ship has massive balls
There is a simple physics reason for sphere in space. The sphere gives you the most volume for the lowest surface area, and every square inch of skin is a potential leak or failure. In the early days of large ship design it would make sense to build spherical structures so as to minimize the amount of skin area. As designers became more confident in the emerging construction methods they could build less conservative designs that were more "human friendly" as opposed to being dictated by the limitations of the materials.
There was a story back in the 80's (fan fiction or head cannon or maybe a game? That a Deadalus class pre or a number of years after the Romulain war when humans were naive ran across the non warp klingons on first contact captured the Captain then promised to not harm anyone if the crewwould just surrender.(We Swear...) thus the ballish front of Klingon ships.(which were traded for to the non full warp Romulains (bottled warp plasma) for cloak TOS). Also why captains aren't supposed to do exploration missions...
I imagine the Daedalus Class also likely saw extensive use in Civilian hands in the latter years of its life span.
Definitely
like bulk cargoships
Kind of like the DC-3 after WWII, so many being converted from C-47 military transports to one of the most popular airliners of its time.
I love the idea of Daedalus being the beginning of the shipbuilding philosophy that was demonstrated with Constitution: The go anywhere, do anything type of ship. She can handle herself in a fight, but still do other jobs at the drop of a hat.
Lovely Video about a ship that was always kinda a mystery to me. Good job.
I concur, the Daedalus Class was a multi-role modular platform ship.
That's why it lasts as long as it does.
Similar to how after WW2, many planes got handed to civilians to start airlines.
The Daedalus Class was handed over to civilian organizations to run private businesses and help get the frontier re-settled.
A similar fate to what I can see to the Oberth Class
Its modular unit underneath the main pylon can replace the pontoon with any number of things.
It can become a cargo ship, Tractor Beam Tow ship, patrol vessel, survey ship, etc.
I think the Oberth Class will live on as a support logistics vessel
now if only they could solve the issue of needing explodium alloy in its hull 😂
I love the orberth class. It's my go-to for fannon though I think I probably mess with it too much (for example, moving the engine room to the Pod, because I think having it in the saucer is stupid for the size of the ship... But having said that, I've also kit-bashed a civilian version by bolting a Pod to a Defiant class)
The Daedalus class is what I imagine a love child between the Event Horizon and the Enterprise would look like (minus the ship actively trying to kill it's crew like the Event Horizon)
Enterprise ships tried to do that many times😅
I love the Daedalus class. It's a fanon GOLDMINE. It's got so few canonical details and has such ambiguity that pretty much anything can be made from it.
Thank you for showing the Daedalus class some love. I really like how you try to fill in the blanks and make it fit with what we do know in the franchise.
Makes me think on EC Henry and his design for USS Pacific in "Pacific 201" short, keeping the VLS tubes and the massive subspace transceiver among other things. It fills in the gaps and makes it feel more _real_ than just made up for "Rule of Cool" or to give the writers an out.
EC Henry's version of the Daedalus is much better than the original. Not as topheavy/lopsided. I regard Daedalus as a holdover from 2001: A Space Odyssey-inspired design.
There was a bunch of different classes like Daedalus being non-saucer but ball front would be the Icarus, Dragon, Wasp, Lincoln and Lincoln class MK II, Moskva (middle ground with ball/saucer) also Tautrus would be be a middle ground one too... Odds are bit before the OS time and that tree ran up to TNG, as I think in TNG when Picard was going threw time in 3 it shows Dr Crusher would be in command of a medical ship that was in the Daedalus tree..
In one of the stories about the Daedelus-class, it was the 'killer ap' ship in the Romulan War. It was easily able to be mass produced and could be refitted with the new Warp 6 engines.
The Daedalus class was the "Liberty ship" of its day -- modular, easy to upgrade and able to be quickly mass produced to fight the Romulans.
@@Torgo1001 I love things like that in history. Mass produced, outdated piles of terrifyingly effective junk, that serve so reliably in a time of crisis or struggle, that it gains a cult following and an almost revered reputation far beyond any rational logic. Maybe it was cutting edge when it was introduced, but that's not when it was called to serve, but serve it did, and sometimes? Still does.
I never thought I’d be imagining the Daedalus class as having Polaris missiles and laser-CIWS
Technically I think the term is PDL (Point Defense Lasers) to borrow from another Roddenberry IP (Andromeda)
I'm imagining a Daedalus class loosing it's missiles, and it's starting to look more like combat from "The Expanse". Mind blown.
Polaris missiles would be extremely old by this point* and purpose built for suborbital flight only. Assuming the warheads were maintained for all that time, perhaps the thermonuclear warheads could be salvaged and mounted in torpedo casings.
*In fact they are way too old even now. The US and UK Navies currently use the Trident II missile, which will soon be replaced by the Trident III.
@@mleadenham1 You're missing the point. Of course they wouldn't have those in the 22nd century. He's just saying it's a novel idea to think of the Daedalus class having technology closer to our time and reference than closer to TOS.
Maybe not Tridents or Minutemen exactly, but something only one generation updated. Humanity's first interstellar war would call for readily available, off-the-shelf, tried-and-true weapons that are familiar, with industry and logistics already in place and trained. After integration, the hard part might be finding a crew that can accomplish a mission without quoting a movie.
The lack of point defense weapons in Star Trek has always bugged me. Think of how many times a ship was hit with a torpedo because shields went down, a PDS or CIWS type system would have saved that ship a lot of damage. I know the JJ movies catch a lot of flack from fans but the Kelvin using phaser turrets to shoot down the Narada's torpedo's was awesome.
There was an episode where the Enterprise D used its phasers as a CIWS against a Ferrengi missle.
If you follow the "Enterprise series" The Daedalus Class was one of the first UFP starships following the Romulan war. A sphere contains the most internal volume to surface area making it a cheap hull for the volume. It was probably upgraded numerous times, some were still in service at the time of TOS as referenced in "Bread and Circus's".
The Medusan ship with the spherical primary hull actually first appeared in the 2006 remaster of TOS. In the original episode the Medusan ship was the Tholian Web Spinner with a couple of nacelles tacked on. The remaster redesigned the ship to look much more of human origin.
Actually the Medusan ship was not shown on screen. The kitbash you're thinking of was the space hippies' ship in _The Way to Eden._
Early earth and Starfleet design lineages and tech deserves a ton more attention.
It's been a long road, getting from there to here.
The daedalus design was originally one of matt jeffery's concepts for the enterprise. You find this in the book The Making of Star Trek
5:20 the Medusan ship never appeared until the TOS remastering of 2006-2009. It's design is directly based on what the Daedalus was based on.
The Daedalus class is barely even canonically connected with the design used for it in Beta canon sources. It was mentioned once in TNG episode "Power Play" in the form of the USS Essex (NCC-173) and was never seen on screen. The model in Sisko's office was retroactively stated to be a Daedalus class Starship in supplementary material. Then the Daedalus class was applied to several mid 22nd century ships including the Horizon (Piece of the Action), and the Archon (Return of the Archons) in the Star Trek Encyclopedia. Ever since it was the main mid 22nd Century Starship design that all fanon works were based on (Starfleet Museum for example). Then Star Trek Enterprise (2001-2005) aired and noticeably lacked the Daedalus class and even seemed to retcon the spherical design of existence UNTIL "These are the Voyages" when new Warp 7 Ships are mentioned on the eve of the Federation in 2161 (Which was when many assumed the Daedalus class to have been introduced as even stated in the Starfleet: Year One novel). Then the Star Trek Legacy video game (2006) showed 3 new Daedalus class Starships (Bach, Nightingale, and Pilgrim) in use as Medical Ships in 2159 (With an Admiral suggesting an introduction date of 2157). Then the Earth Romulan War centered novels of 2009 onward clarified something quite... Interesting. Not only did the Daedalus class predate the Federation Starfleet... It predated the United Earth Starfleet and was in service decades before the NX-01 and was easily mass produced for the Romulan War (A glaring contradiction for Starfleet: Year One... Or was it?). It could very well be that the Daedalus class was selected for a grand Warp 7 Refit and was once again at the forefront of Exploration following the war (Daedalus-II class maybe lol). There was also a Prototype Ion Cascade Drive equipped Starship called Daedalus in the year 2140 made independently from Henry Archer's Warp Five Project. The Daedalus was tragically lost when leaving Spacedock. Then Ships of the Line calendar indicated an introduction date of 2135...
It's all over the place 😆
Now we have 4 introduction dates for the Daedalus class:
2135 (SOTL Calendar)
2140 (Some early Enterprise themed novel)
2157 (Star Trek Legacy)
2161 (Starfleet: Year One, These are the Voyages [implied])
All we know for absolutely certain is that it was in service by 2167 as that was when the Essex was lost with all hands after a fatal crash. Data stated that the Daedalus class was retired in 2196... But wait... We have even more Beta canon sources claiming it was in active service as late as 2270!!!! Star Trek Online and the Vanguard series of novels indicate that the Daedalus class was still around and not going anywhere 😂). Explanations?
I have none. But one thing is certain. The Daedalus class is unavoidable. You can love it or hate it. The design will always be in a state of limbo...
Lower Decks showed 2 Daedalus class Starships docked at a Starbase.. So that's something 😆
Unless there is four variants of the same design.
I like the idea of the Daedalus, she shows a transition from our current ship design, look at the ISS, to later ship designs like TOS Enterprise. I also think she looks like she would make a great freighter, very economical interior storage. Though I'm noticing a lack of a deflector dish.
I think the Daedalus is a Victory Ship. The long secondary hull can probably be built in subframes and bolted together pretty quick and the ball similarly might be assembled by-the-deck.
I have theory regard Dedalus. So ship was commissioned in 2140 but we do not see it in the show. I actually have explanation! So as we learn from Archer, first NX project ship fall apart during tests and he blamed Vulcans that he father didn't see conclusion of the program before his death. As they know about issue but say nothing, though they were correct that Earth rush things.
At the time it was assumed it was NX class, but now we know it was actually Freedom class (launched in 2145), known from Franklin Incident in 2165. Officially class has Warp 4, but I do not buy Starfleet operated in those speeds prior to NX mission in 2151. Originally NX suffer on serious vibration issues and for that reason it was heavily reinforced. But later they were capable to stabilize the drive.
I do believe that Starfleet actually start mass production of Dedalus and Freedom class before incident. But failure of project lead to cancellation and introduction of proper NX. With only Ganges class as refit of Neptune class (Emmette type) stay in service, as it could be refitted in the original Warp 2 configuration. But after conclusion of NX mission, Dedalus and Freedom class could be restarted in the Warp 4 configuration.
Just in time for Romulan War, "coincidentally" expanding available assets. Unfortunately after the war Earth was broke (and Starfleet didn't become fleet of Federation until 2190's at least) and so they needed scrap most ships, except smallest and cheapest. Like Dedalus. With only few new Bonaventure class ships for prestige operations. I also speculate that Loknar and Strider (Marklin?) could be based on the NX hulls, or even later Constitution class (as it has initially similar smaller sourer).
In my head-canon the Daedalus Class is a Starfleet Academy ship. It's famous and popular because every Academy class spent two semesters flying around the Sol System and Alpha Centauri in a Daedalus Class ship for almost three hundred years. It is a cadet run ship. For one semester you fly in the position of a junior officer, and in your next semester, a new class comes in as the junior officers, and your class moves up to the position of senior officer. In the next semester, your class takes on the role of Starfleet command coordinating the Daedalus Class ships.
This is a great idea! Irl some navies train their cadets on old sailing yachts.
Stealing this idea for my head canon
This idea is brilliant
If we continue this trend, I'd imagine the oldest of the Constitutions and Mirandas (Like the Soyuz class which would be great for classes revolving around sensors and scans) being put on Academy Duty and serving as late as the times of DS9 (2370s), completing training for cadets and graduates, while on the grand scheme of things they are like Ships on Reserve
Honestly the Daedalus looks like what I think a late 22nd century human design should be a transitionary from rockets and space planes with warp nacelles to the classical federation starship ship design. Far more lore consistent than akiraprise
The Daedalus-class really deserves to be seen on screen. Would the Zeppelin like starships of the earth starfleet likely have seen combat against the Romulans?
Maybe as “ fireships” basically a giant ass fusion bomb with the ability to self guide to a target
Star Trek: New Voyages did heavily feature a Daedalus class ship in one episode.
I was really happy seeing the USS Pasteur when that episode first aired. It just kind of made sense to me.
Would love a tv series covering Earth's war with Romulus. Fleets of these simple things making do would be neat.
You'd think that after the amazing story of the Dominion War in Deep Space Nine people would be more willing to do that.
This was a bit of a longer video, and overall an enjoyable one. The Daedalus being a general-purpose support vessel with much futureproofing & early modularity in mind does much to explain both the number of variants and long service life of the class (as well as it's repeated decommissioning and recommissioning). It does make me ponder how many variants there are though? Indeed, it is neat to see more of these 22nd century era videos.
Just a little longer... ;)
Where’s the navigational deflector ?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I'm assuming there were quite a few refits, and probably, variants, too.
Leading to the similar Moskva-class, later, maybe.
Overall though, I treat the Daedalus as being like the Oberth-class of it's day (only a lot more survivable!)
Numerous, widely deployed, but nowhere near a top dog.
And first in service about 6 years before the NX-01, perhaps.
@@sullythemic it uses a deflector array instead of a dish
@@venomgeekmedia9886 This is my first video from you, and I did enjoy it. However, you could stand to do a bit more research. Unlike fission reactors in use today, fusion reactors give off very little radiation, as they consume the tritium they produce. Most of the shielding in such a reactor is to keep in the intense heat needed to maintain operation. At most, even at the energy yields needed for warp travel, they would need to vent off excess helium to continue feeding in hydrogen.
I always loved the idea that the Daedalus is nothing more than a simple explorer ship. Tiny crew, cheap to build, easy to field and produce. Just cookie cut them and send them out to explore new systems near Earth in the early days of space travel.
Like to think of Daedalus Class as the "taxi cab" or "Boeing 737" of ships, some basic design that worked really well and was just rebuilt over and over.
I place the Daeds as both pre and post ENT. Liken it to the original Continental Navy, the first 13 ships (Daeds in this analogy) weren't very good and were shortly thereafter scrapped. Then came the Six Frigates, some of which being the super frigates (USS Constitution). In the analogy insert the NX class. Post ENT, we didn't get to see the Romulan War, but using tech from the NX, the Daeds were refit and redesigned. Being smaller meant more could be pumped out for the war vs a NX or NX refit. The Daeds fit the niche of a frigate to the NX cruiser and with NX tech, proved to be a wildly successful vessel. Starfleet pumped out Daeds like the US pumped out Clemson. Post war, instead of mothballing all the warships, since they now had NX DNA, they became pre-eminent explorers with PLENTY of experienced crews and spare parts. I'm sure Starfleet made other vessel types leading up to the Constitutions, but the Daeds had the numbers until their retirement, finally being severely outclassed by the Klingons and other regional powers.
Glad to see another fan whose head-canon incorporate elements from Starfleet Museum.
I remember the first time I had ever heard of this class was in the Star Trek TNG Season 5 episode 'Power Play' when the crew the Galaxy Class U.S.S. Enterprise D found the final resting place of the Daedalus Class U.S.S. Essex.
Whatever the Daedalus was for, the spherical section implies large crew/passenger requirements. Colony ship, emergency response ship, medical ship, or large scale science vessel are the first that come to mind.
Large cargo/supply capacity pre-high efficiency matter recycling technology.
well i'm not sure but was it in the move the wraith of khan as a research ship ??
Conceptually I understand that most of the novels are not considered canon, but I am disappointed that no one has brought up the Starfleet Corps of Engineers. I may be mistaken but I thought that Scotty retrofitted a Daedalus class ship to serve as his mobile command while he directed the SCE in those books. It was due to it being a workhorse with interchangeable modules and I believe a history with the SCE from the TOS time period. I take this to mean that the SCE novels are not canon so you didn’t reference them .
I'm a fan personally of the simplicity idea, that being with the onset of the Romulan War Earth needed a simpler more mass producible design and the Daedalus Class could be built two or three to every NX. This puts Daedalus after NX by about a decade or so, shortly after the war's start and its generic parts and mass-produced hulls is why it stuck around into the early 23'rd century.
I believe it predates the NX-01. I’d guess about Warp 3. But during the war it did become a mainstay vessel during the Romulan War.
Could be both, could be an older ship design that was heavily redesigned and retrofitted and pressed into service.
Looking at the StarFleet Technical manual, you notice that the backup fusion reactors are also spheres. My head-cannon has always been that the 'sphere' ships were warp 2-4 capable designs that used fusion power instead of matter-antimatter power. It wasn't until the early design of the NX series that engineers realized they couldn't brute force a warp bubble around a sphere and still have decent performance or efficiency. It's along the same veins as when we started experimenting with supersonic aircraft, we had to rethink the designs for the new engines and operating environments.
Of course, there could a need for the larger operations space that a sphere vs. saucer provides, and engineers could be willing to make that trade-off for medical support ship that they wouldn't make for a long-range explorer or combat vessel.
I'd say that the Daedalus class came into service after the launch of the NX - 01, and was used up to the time of The Four Years War. Any ships of this class that were still spaceworthy beyond this point were used as training vessels .
We need a series based off of that mueseum.
I liked the parallel development of fusion vs. antimatter as one of the explanations for the Daedalus Class. Antimatter was very rare and expensive, and indeed, in sometimes remains so. And as powerful as antimatter drive is, it has an Achilles' Heel of 'dilithium dependence'. I can see why 99% of all ships humanity might have produced up to the Romulan War were first Conestoga levels, ring-drive ships, then long running earth cargo ships along with Starfleet Museum designs for some serious numbers for colonization, then a culmination of a 'design radiation' of Daedalus and Daedalus-like classes for various private, government and Starfleet concerns.
The various antimatter drive ships shaped like deltas or with saucers being in numbers that could be counted with hands and never growing beyond two digits for some time, the analogy of diesel vs. nuclear ships being a rather good one. NX's and their antimatter drive and armed brethren were the super expensive, high performance, combat capable vessels of their day. And would, in many ways, remain so for some time. So the Daedalus designs would have been THE general ship design of earth at the time of the NX development, and wouldn't be going anywhere soon, especially if they could be designed to be upgraded to achieve higher warp speeds.
Truly enjoyable, fills in one of the grey areas with sound thought out reasoning.
Love how the class became a workhorse, far outliving what would be expected of a relatively 'primitive' design.
I actually think this is one of your best videos. Lots and lots ideas here that are new, interesting, and easy for me to incorporate into my head-canon.
I like this idea of pushing pack the fusion-powered Museum ships to the pre-Enterprise lost era as I have always liked the idea of an era of fusion-powered warp. I also like how your proposed limitations on fusion-powered warp can tie into the post-Burn era. Perhaps post-Burn fusion-powered warp was possible but limited to warp 2-3, but by this time civilization was now connected galaxy-wide and warp 2-3 was *almost* like having no warp drive at all (almost like a society that was used to supersonic flying cars being pushed back to using hobby horses). However, this era might have had large, slow (warp 2-3), almost generation ships (if crossing galactic distances), of the kind on which we find Grey Tal and Adira.
And next question is : Why Oberth still exist ? :D
Because it is actually a decent ship? It get lot of unjustified hate. Though it look way better without gondola. Curry is still the ugliest ship in the Starfleet.
@@TheRezro The Oberth would blow up if you sneezed at it. Also that is some incredibly poor taste on the Curry.
Is there any evidence that the Oberth is actually bad at its job besides Grissom being destroyed? It’s a surveyor and science vessel, not a warship, so I hardly think its fate at the hands of a top-of-the-line Klingon attack craft should count so much against it. And with respect to its appearances on TNG, when the Oberth is in a bad way it’s because something really weird and dangerous happened, hence the Enterprise showing up; since the show is about the Enterprise, all we see are moments like this, but who’s to say for every freak accident that happens to an Oberth there aren’t a dozen more out there doing relatively boring science stuff without incident? I grant that I would rather have a Miranda for this kind of role, both aesthetically and in terms of capability, but a Miranda is also substantially larger and probably more expensive to operate.
Once again, you stole my head-canon. Please keep going! While I'm not a fan of most of Earth's Nuclear Space Fleet, the idea fits soundly in Star Trek, and helps tie up a few loose ends ENT had.
In my Enterprise rewrite the Daedalus class is introduced in the 2120s as the first Earth starships capable of long-term sustained Warp 3 travel. They have armor plating, flak cannon launchers, mass drivers, and spatial torpedoes. in the rewrite they were supposed to be the first deep space exploration vessels but technology limited long term missions. The NX class is the replacement/successor, but they keep the Daedalus around and build more due to being cheaper and faster to build during the Romulan War.
5:12 But the Medusan ship was never seen in the original series. I am not counting the updated VFX versions. You really need to be careful when referencing "TOS".
good point. because i don't take the uses of the D7 model in TOS-R as gospel
Awesome content. I love the era between the United Earth Space Probe Agency and Starfleet, especially the fusion driven warp 2 engine idea. Well done.
Was always struck by the simplicity of the forms in this design. Ever since a passing appearance in TOS, various renditions have been trying to make this rough crude sketch conform with what came later. Great video covering this tangled web!
Daedalus looks like a pioneer/colony ship to me. The sphere vs saucer would provide a to of room to ferry colonists to their destination. The oversized secondary hull being for a tremendous amount of initial startup supplies.
In that role; the ships would serve an entirely different purpose than the situations on screen revolved around in most cases; hence they're never really seen doing what they do.
Design wise I would put them in the TOS era. They're too similar to be from any other, and human colonists were spreading like a disease. Like the episode devil in the dark(?) how many trips would a Constellation make transporting all that mining equipment? A Daedalus could do it in one or two (or two ships).
Anyway, the role in that era makes the most sense to me. And it's a procedure we never see on screen.
It's the T-34/Sherman of the romulan wars.
My favorite Trek ship, they should have made this the Enterprise 🙂
My personal headcanon is that the Daedalus class fits into the early part of the gap between Enterprise and TOS. Just because the NX class has been built with a saucer does not mean that humans necessarily look around and say “Right, saucers only from here on out”. They probably don’t understand warp field geometry very well and there’s room for a lot of exploration in starship design. And a sphere has a big volumetric advantage over a saucer, which means you can make a physically smaller ship more capable.
I figure that there were a lot of more unusual designs flying around in that period before the NX refit configuration became standard, and the Daedalus was a very successful workhorse design of that era
Love discussing this. It was such a unique ship that even the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Movie had a Spherical shape ship similar to the Daedalus class in Star Trek. It’s a very striking design
It’s the original design for the enterprise
A beautiful ship, that’s what it is.
My personal favorite star trek ship. Thanks for recognizing this ship design.
For some reason I have always liked the Daedalus class. I wish there was a Trek series featuring this ship.
Im just throwing shit at the wall here
But, perhaps it was a rival project to the nx project eventually reaching warp 6 or 7 succeeding the nx class and eventually starfleet would take the best from the nx class and the deadalus class to create the saucer ships with the massive horizontal warp cores we see in DISCO, SNW and TOS
The wasp class fits that bill better
Though the Daedalus class is let's be totally honest a ugly looking ship compared to it's Stargate universe counterpart, considering it was in service for the United earth starfleet, and eventually the early years of the federation, it does fit the primitive era.
It may have Been upgraded by the time of the federation but we were never given fleet sizes of the early federation or pre federation starfleet post earth Romulan war but I bet there were quite a number of substantial Daedalus class ships???
"I doubt anyone is going to build a nuclear-powered freighter."
Past tense, dude. It was called the NS Savannah, and it was both a freighter AND passenger ship.
In Star Trek (non-canon) lore, there is a tidbit of information regarding warp drive, from one of the novels. Dilithium focusing is needed for warp factors greater than 4. Also, there was a sort of offhand mention of early warp drives having problems with inertia, with the implication that 'inertialess' warp systems was a significant improvement to warp drive design. This seems to mesh with the known development of structural integrity fields, artificial gravity, and the inertial compensation required for FTL craft.
In other novels, there is mention of a 'fourth generation warp drive' at the time the Constitution-class ships were being built, implying that this was actually an 'older' technology.
Another novel notes that the 'tri-nacelle' design was not as efficient as the engineers had believed it would be. This same novel (involving Zefram Cochrane himself!) describes Cochrane admiring the engineering schematics of ENTERPRISE and being impressed with the placement and proportions of the ship's saucer section and warp nacelles.
In old lore (Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology) the sphere forward ship was a Prototype Battle Cruiser (2158 - 2160) that was listed as "Because of the failure of the Tritium Class, concern for our defense capability results in the building of an advanced prototype battlecruiser. This ship doesn't become part of the Fleet, but many of its improvements do."
Its just a Civilian class ship.
I'd like to point out that the ship that people think is the Daedalus class has never been identified on screen as a Daedalus class...
Even funnier, that is not actual Dedalus. In Beta canon Dedalus was recommissioned and refitted into the known longer wariant (140m), in 2264. But the variant used between 2140s-2196 (105m) is that:
static.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/6/66/USS_Essex.jpg
@@TheRezro There is canon and there is not canon. "Beta canon" is for betas.
It was always my head-cannon that it was an experiment in a modular design, but its didn’t turn out to be as adaptable as it was thought to be; so it ultimately superseded by ship designs like the Intrepid. Due to the Romulan War and being easy to assemble, it became the backbone of the fleet. It’s main strength being adaptability, it was essentially a Ford 150 Super Duty. It could be retrofitted to be almost anything you needed it to be; it may not be the best, but it could do the job.
I’ve been looking for a good explanation for the Daedalus class for ages. Thanks for filling in the gaps.
Discovery isn't lost era...it doesn't exist..period 😅
Thank you
I think your explanation of the Daedalus Class ship is excellent.
I always knew it was a predecessor to the Constitution Class but when Enterprise came out it didn’t make sense why the NX Class looked so much like the Constitution or at least as much as the Dadealus looked like the Constitution class.
I figured it served during the Earth Romulan war and most were distroyed during it.
Which would explain why several times it was ever mentioned they would talk about wreckage or one that was lost being found.
So what you say makes sense, it was around right before the and at the start of the NX service run during the War.
And built in numbers during it, and because it was basically a large support ship with minimal alfensive capability many were lost.
I always liked the design. It feels like a more efficient hull form than a saucer and somewhat more grounded in reality.
I'm imagining a Daedalus class loosing it's missiles, and it's starting to look more like combat from "The Expanse". Mind blown.
That would be epic, and fully consistent with Spock’s on screen description of how the war was waged.
i've always considered the Daedalus class as gen 1 starfleet transport tugs for duterium slush/antimatter/general starbase cargo re-supply. the lower tubular section of the ship was modular to accomodate various payloads and could be swapped out as needed at a starbase based on mission. the simple warp 1 engines in the daedalus could be easily mounted within the spherical body of the ship allowing for more towing options to the overall design. it wasn't designed for speed or combat, but capable of being easily refitted to accomodate whatever starfleet had need of.
the constellation and constitution class ships were the diesel engines of starfleet back then. the Daedalus class was essentially the volkswaggon bus of early starfleet. cheap to build, cheap to operate in deep space, and didn't have all the frills and options of it's constellation and constution class peers. the Daedalus were the original chuckwaggons to the stars that got outshined by it's betters.
Glad I’m not the only one who’s been wondering about this question.
I think the Daedalus class is mentioned in TNG as well.
I remember something about a ship that's stuck in a storm for 200 years.
Yep, the one where Troi , Data and O'Brien get taken over by evil spirits. Unless I'm missing something that's the only canon mention of the name Daedalus class, and the model on SIsko's desk is never referred to by name. So TECHNICALLY (and again maybe I"m missing something) it could be that the model in Sisko's ready room is some other class and the crashed ship in that TNG episode looked like something else.
Very informative. I've wondered from time to time what that ship did in Starfleet.
In my mind, in the series finale for Enterprise, when Trip mentions the “Warp 7” ships that are about to be put into service, that’s the Daedalus. To my, the Daedalus tried to build upon and improve upon the NX class by adding a secondary hull, and the sphere was to help it be modular for a multi role ship.
From observation and comparison I'll crack it a bit.
1.Color: Faction based and to refuse collection of radiation/heat over time when near a star. A dark vehicle will accumulate more thermals. Now its a standard color when the issue is long gone.
2.Basic shapes indicate manufacture ease. Meaning it's mass produced, and perhaps sold to other races. Imagine your import signature product, now displayed as a model on a commanders desk.
3.As above stated, it's a transport vessel for the massive volume in small framework. Also the basis that ships crews tend to enhance the ship over time, they need every bit of space to do it internally. Including bringing large parts back inside.
4.Prior to discovering the disk shape to aim weapons at wide angles with phasers, the bulbous shapes were 'shaved down'.
5.It can eject its cylinder subsection by its forward engine design. Recollect like a Semi-trucker style. Prior to teleporting tech, the fastest way to trade colonies between ships.
6.Imagine being able to leave your civilian groups before going on a mission, in a stable orbit over a planet. Also meant to land on planets to drop the section off.
7.It's a type of 'aircraft carrier' with its size and shape in some incarnations for rapid exploration and collection of resources. A space miner ship.
8.Spinning gravity to save energy in the living quarters.
9.Basic shapes that surround a anti-scanning technology at the center to prevent being scanned/beamed off etc.
10.Expected to be upgraded over time with its shape, but found a new technology imcompatible with it and the shape needed to change.
There, ten basic reasons for the machine.
Another explanation fits is that these ships weren’t Starfleet vessels. There were other military or space exploration organizations that were involved with earth or the federation. There was the Makos from Enterprise (the series) and in Star Trek: Beyond Krall was the Captain of the Franklin who served in the United Earth Military Assault Command Operations and then in Starfleet. The people that crashed on Talos IV were from the American Continent Institute, the ship they flew was thenSS Columbia. There was Galactic Command mentioned and the United Earth Space Probe Agency and there could be more that used those designs before realizing that they weren’t efficient at warp and also much more costly to build as the materials needed to fill that space wasn’t worth it, especially when you don’t need that many crew members.
It was one of the most indearing oddballs of the fleet. I really like the current incarnation of this ship, the Noble class with its sphere separation!
I saw you managed to insert a pic of the Wasp Class in there - that's a favorite of mine! Thanks for that.
The Oberth class was similarly a dead end. We don't see any other ships designed like that. While the Constitution and Miranda classes clearly have lineage in the Galaxy and Nebula classes, respectively, the Oberth class was a dead-end. I'd even say the Constitution offshoot, the Excelsior, has a separate lineage in the Sovereign class. So, Starfleet has definitely produced a few classes that were effectively dead ends and never got iterated on.
Incidentally, I still think they did Zefram Cochrane dirty in First Contact. Not only does it clash with his appearance in The Original Series, portraying him as a drunk, it also pretty much contradicts the information gleaned in Q's trial in Encounter at Farpoint. The pocket novel Federation handles his legacy in a much better way.
Nice job, Venom Geek.
What became known as the Daedalus Class design was indeed in the original Enterprise concept sketches. You covered the range of application and speculation admirably. The one thing not mentioned that I've wondered if it's relevance went into that first sketch is that since the early days of science fiction and scientific speculation, the pressure distribution universality of the sphere has often been said to make it an ideal space craft shape. Look at the spherical Russian Vostok capsule.
The original series had the sphere class of ship as the human production ships before the first Romulan war. During that war, many older races that joined the Federation helped in improving starfleet ships, and the end result was the Saucer design.
For everyone who thinks Enterprise and STD are actual cannon, you're wrong. They conflic with the original source material in the original series. Therefore, they are a separate timeline or an alternate universe.
Fantastic video Mr. Holiday!
Well done.
Many little questions answered.
Well done, sir.
going to a slender neck with command section placed further from engineering section helped with high performance warp field efficiency when greater warp fields were being developed with NX series. Klingons also found this out but Romulans and other entities weren’t as concerned with this efficiency, they just powered through with compact designs and less efficient yet very powerful energy fields. This narrow neck to saucer design however stayed with Starfleet aesthetic because of warp field dynamics beyond initial radiation concerns.
I think the best explanation for the Daedalus’ janky appearance is the old adage that “a camel is a horse built by committee.” Except a camel is perfect animal for what it does, and likewise the Daedalus works despite its strange appearance.
Well done research for this iconic piece of star trek lore. I have always been a huge fan of the deadelus class starships, because I felt they were always a human design. You see the ball, the can, and the two cigars in its shape. As for the history of it. I feel like it was a stop gap ship. Something starfeet already had that could be slapped together much faster then the nx class series. Sorta of like the m3 Lee was before the m4 Sherman at the start of ww2. I think the daedulus is a first attempt at building a solar expoler ship originally. I mean before the nx classes were being built there were colonies on nearby star systems that would need a cheap but sturdy starship to explore. It's just a thought. The Swiss army knife reference was great!
Also one thing that was in the novels was that the daedulus class starships were not so susceptible to the Romulan ship catching device that was used in the Romulan war.
The ships systems being older and less advanced then the nx class series, made them more resistant to hacking and hostile take over. The downside being as you said, they are quiet weak in real combat. But then again so were the m3 Lee's. Yet they were effective in the right hands.
Your video was very good! Few source info from UESN era (but "Block 1" Daedalus's were the 1st M/AM craft, not last HD Fusion craft.. thats the "Comet/Fireball" class)
Standard displacement: 25,184 t (block 2: 30,662 t)
Commissioned 50 (25 block 1's built before block 2 retrofit is standard production)
Crew complement: 101 (16 officers + 85 crew), could carry up to 100 additional science staff for short-duration missions
Weapons: 2 Type V laser cannons (fixed mounts), 2 missile launchers with 10 Mantis offensive/defensive missiles (block 2: 2 Type V laser cannons (fixed mounts), 2 missile launchers with 32 Mantis offensive/defensive missiles)
Embarked craft: 2 light cargo/personnel shuttlecraft
Warp drive: SSWR-IV-2 spherical cavity M/AM reactor with 2 Starrider IX nacelles (block 2 is only an injector retrofit, on same drive.. mostly for impulse drive performance, small warp boost)
Velocity: block 1 wf 3.5, cruise (block 2: wf 3.6); // block 1 wf 4.2, supercruise (block 2: wf 4.3); // block 1 wf 4.4, maximum (block 2: wf 4.5)
1v1 ... CQC the Daedalus Class is no match for era equal Romulan Clavicle-class Cruisers, AT DISTANCE: Its ability to flee on M/AM drives/fuel gives it survivability
The ENT Romulan War novel series tied in the Dedalus as the die-hard-ship which was quicker and cheaper to build compared to the NX. I liked that explanation.
Well thought out and illustrated presentation! Thank you.
Pre Enterprise - Axinar fandom tended to be put after the DY classes with ships like the Horizon with high 100 low 500 hull numbers and part of the longer Romulain war. (TOS nukes subspace radio vs. non warp Romulains months if not years vs 1 battle [as you covered]) And as the fleet of peace and expansion was supposedly the class the Klingons kidnapped a captain, then the crew and how they got warp drive. Thus, the ball on klingon ships as an extension of this. (Also, Klingons traiding warp with Romulus for cloak) also like Bab 5 in theory a sphere could be spun for gravity. Also by using 2 or 3 diameter cylinders and almost rounded geodesic ball sections that could be mass produced with only specialized connecting - end sections requiring any real complicated form.
One thing that stands out is that my looking at the 3:17 models is that it looks like a very nature upgrade and evolution of Phoenix with wrap drive and even crew area looks like simply added a much larger living area vs the 3 man cockpit.
I love the spec where a ship that is numerous and easy to modify can easily find work.
Thank you for your work. Your presentation was beautifully complete and informative. I love things that have durability, longevity, and versatility! And for those reasons I love the Deadalus. I have always envisioned the Deadalus as a long hauler like an interstate, or in the UK intercounty, tractor trailer. It kinda looks like a tractor trailer. I'll bet in universe the Deadalus replaced those Y class and J class cargo ships, although that was not seen in Enterprise. FYI, those illustrations you showed early in your videos are original concept drawings in the evolution of developing the Starship class, Yorktown, ultimately USS Enterprise.
Interesting video... My impression of the Daedalus class was that it's design was "medical" in nature, much like the Oberth class was "science" in nature.
I've always explained away the orb on the front as simply being necessary. Let me explain. When you're talking about a medical ship, what do you need? Medical equipment, of course. Hospitals, and even today's hospital ships, are huge structures. Your standard pre-TNG starship, with it's saucer designs, only really had enough space for crew quarters and small sickbays. In larger medical emergencies they had to convert things like shuttle bays and cargo bays into additional medical space, and they still didn't really have the medical staff to manage such large emergencies.
With the Daedalus class you have a ship that foregoes the typical sleek design of a saucer in order to maximize the interior space using an orb. This would give you deck after deck of open space for operating theatres, patient recovery, emergency wards, etc. This theory also fits in with Dr. Crusher's Olympic Class medical starship AND likely explains why transporter technology expanded (by that time) to a point where they can mass-beam entire populations.
Now to explain the fame. You see, with this kind of lineage, as a medical and emergency-response starship, I could easily see it being cherished by their very nature. Kinda like how we, post 9/11, cherish emergency responders. This would explain why Sisko and several others have models of the Daedalus class on their desk. Kind of a way to pay homage to the brave men and women who put themselves at risk to provide life-saving medical support to colonists.
That said, I really enjoyed this video and the content.
Another role (also support) for the Daedalus Class was as an SCE vessel in the TOS-era. There are a couple of 'flashback' novels that feature the USS Lovel.
We also see one in Lower Decks, docked at a spacestation 2x05 I believe. Likely a museum ship or in civilian hands.
I remember the design from the early drawings from TOS. I always imagined this class as a specialized class for bulk / cargo / colonization use. Simple shapes, easier to build lots of them (like Liberty ships in WWII).
I got to put eyes on the Cisco office model on the set and her two sisters that were literally in a closet in the art department office. It was the week they were filming the last Next Generation episode in the sound stage across the alley to give it time stamp. Anyway if you want a pieces to scale from. The Dadelous engine nacelles for the model in Cisco's office is the Solid Rocket Boosters from the AIRFIX full shuttle stack model kit. All three had the same nacelles.
Hope this helps.
Nicely done! The Daedalus definitely qualifies as a cannon. Once she's volleyed off her missiles,s he's just really good for defense. And I presume reloading them can't be done in battle - they need a resupply ship. So for long running engagements, they're likely going to have a limited lifespan - their missiles can only be fired off once before they're expended, they require saturation levels to hit targets reliably, so they can't conserve their missiles for barrages to fire only small numbers at a time
So in fleet battles it turns into a tactical game of figuring out when the best time is to volley them and how many ships you have and how many are required to overwhelm the PD of a Romulan ship. I guess during the Romulan War Starfleet had a general doctrine of how many missiles they expected to have to fire off from what range agaisnt how many ships to generate a high degree of hits.. And how many times they could do this over a battle.