Dr. Richard Carrier - Ancient Roman Creationism: Scientific Pagans Vs. Armchair Christians
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 02. 2016
- As presented at Darwin on the Palouse 2016. Dr. Carrier discussed the ancient debate between creationists and natural selectionists, how ancient "intelligent design" advocates were far more scientific than their counterparts today, and what this means for the actual origins of real science. In the process he surveyed the achievements and methods of ancient science and how it laid the foundation for modern science, and then examine the rhetoric against it by early Christians and how it hasn't changed in near 2,000 years.
Beautifully described complexity in an understandable language. The power points helped. Pleasure to listen to. Thanks.
This was so informative. Thank you, Richard.
Fabulous! I haven't had a video take my breath away in ages... The scrabble bag of letters quote is astonishing. The creationists haven't progressed in 2 millennia - instead they consigned Europe to centuries of squalid misery. This reminds me of Ricky Gervais in an interview where he said if we wiped out everything we know and believe now... we would not get the same religions because they are just imagined but we would get the same science because that is real and it would be rediscovered. I'm definitely going to buy those book when they come out :-)
Dr. Carrier is my hero.
Awesome! Thanks Dr. Carrier!
Carrier's sense of humor is marvelous.
Creationists can't take a "peace out".
Not really trust me I love his terrible jokes but they are truly terrible and not always in good taste if your actually trying to change christians minds. He caters to people who already think like him unfortunately. And there is so many gaps in darwinism. I'm not christian but his arrogance is off-putting. You can tell he's not trying to change minds but insult people with theories.
@@amberhines01 Wrong. There is no such thing as "Darwinism" except to the ignorant. The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is the most supported field of Science and is the basis of modern Biology. Your ignorance of this indicates why you are unable to comprehend Carrier's humor, for humor itself must be rooted in facts regarding reality. Those who feel insulted by facts regarding reality are ignorant indeed. You have NO basis to criticize the ideas presented, so you turn to a mealy mouthed personal attack. It is yourself who is arrogant in your ignorance and incomprehension, you should feel shame, but it is likely your stupidity prevents you from knowing why.
@@johnpelosi4117 I never said there was no such thing as darwinism. I never said it was false. I said there are gaps and not everyone in academia agrees which is healthy. I'm just not willing to put all my eggs into that basket until proven undoubtedly. There are many species who have evolved in ways that in no way seem to suit there survival. I'm also willing to concede maybe we just don't understand yet how these evolutions are helping them. But you clearly saw someone who disagreed with you then got emotional and wrote a response without actually reading what I wrote. I do this all the time and have to catch myself.
@@amberhines01 Your ignorance has no excuse, neither does the notion that your personal incredulity has meaning.
Romans 2000 yrs ago were ahead of Christians today.. palms forehead
this guy is amazing
I mean, he's a bit of a dick, but his oratory and academic work seems pretty sound.
@@christopheraaron1255 try debating him not even Ehrman dares
@@christopheraaron1255 , why a dick?
@@christopheraaron1255 , actually I think I understand you. Sometimes he sounds ironic and sarcastic. But he wasn't like this in his first book. I think the constant debates wear him out.
Nice talk! I've been reading up for a video on a similar topic. Surprisingly, Darwin actually outlined the scaffolding principle in chapter 6 of Origin, but he didn't name the process. He talks about lungs evolving in the presence of gills and then gills evolving away in land animals.
No animals have (naturally grown) wheels that they move around on. Why? Because a wheel-and-axle structure IS "irreducibly complex" in the sense described here; a partially-formed wheel is useless. So wheels didn't evolve. But eyes did (several times), and flagelli did, because partially-formed ones are, in fact, useful.
The state of our evolution, both materially and spiritually, is from our prior naivety to the present one. Mr. Carrier's at very least cognizant of the great difference between honest scientific methodology and the self-fulfilling conjectures of rubber-stamp belief... thankfully.
That was amazing
Great presentation! Min 15:40 Richard says that they had argument for infinite universe with infinite stars and planets orbiting them or stars orbiting planets. Can you please provide any source for his statement?
The universe was well underway before we arrived , stars being born, stars dying, just energy moving,this constant movement is the reason there,s change, very simple.
Brilliant !
Intelligent Design = Argument from Ignorance Fallacy.
Every proposed example of irreducible complexity has been proven to be reducible.
Note: Recent discoveries suggest that life began earlier. Not 2.4 billion, but 2.7 billion years ago.
Richard, 4 billion years of single cell evolution is also our evolution, since multi-celled critters were evolved from single-celled critters. (plant = critter for this) So it's not quite as big a difference. But still, a very good lecture. Thank you.
LIKE THE MUSIC IN THE BEGINNING KIND OF PICTURE RICHARD DOING A AFRICAN DANCE
29:36 this is a much more compelling explanation as to why ID took such a deep foothold, arguing about muscle arrangement and kidney function is one thing, but until you can understand how cells carry information as to what their function will be and how they grow, trying to explain away intelligent design in a foetus is a real headache.
A video that was made in 2016 and it is neither HD nor widescreen? Come on guys.
Like commented and subscribed 👍
Didn’t refute the basic premise. Is a fundamental single cell organism irreducible. Personally I don’t take a religious view on this but I think it shows that evolution has some unanswered questions
I cringed when he talked about 'rust' on bronze gears. Bronzes & brasses are much better materials for precision gears than iron. Only iron can rust, so using the more general 'corrosion' would have been more accurate. A quibble, perhaps, since it does not alter the validity of the general arguments.
+Robert Folkerts Still a good point that rust is oxidized iron nonetheless.
+Robert Folkerts
Why did you cringe Robert? His use of "rusted" seems to be entirely within explicit dictionary usage of the word:
The Free Dictionary:
rust (rŭst)
n.
1.
b. Any of various metallic coatings, especially oxides, formed by corrosion.
v. rust·ed, rust·ing, rusts
v.intr.
1. To become corroded.
v.tr.
1. To corrode or subject (a metal) to rust formation.
Dictionary.com
rust
noun
2. any film or coating on metal caused by oxidation.
He's not a metallurgist - I forgive him :-)
The statue of liberty has entered the chat
Lately I had been thinking Christianity may have played a important role in the development of the west and the modern world but I think it has just been holding us back and we started to develop after we started to take the Bible and Christian doctrine less seriously.
the church did put a lot of hard cash into research, but buried anything they didn't like.
or burnt people, cos, you know, love.
Man puts his gods into his gaps.
Liked Carrier's speech, except he sounded like he was channeling the "church lady" from SNL.
Gods are obsolete
The field of epigenetics is about what influences external to the DNA program controls the development of tissue in the fetus, for instance. What allows or causes stem cells to differentiate into tissues of different function, heart, brain, vertebrae, for example. What regulates or shuts off overdevelopment of various tissues? Is cancer programmed into our genetics or the propensity to get it under certain environmental conditions or triggers? All living organisms seem to have a lifespan - for what purpose? Is this to eliminate overpopulation or to eliminate aged organisms that cease to function optimally? The telomeres in all cells progressively get shorter with each mitosis (cell division), until the cells can no longer divide, and because of this complete organs can die off (possible explanation for such things as pancreatic malfunction and diabetes, and senile dementia with brain atrophy). It is fallacious to argue that a “benevolent and perfect God” would have avoided these defects in creation (our opinion), since that puts supreme focus on the importance of this 3-dimensional existence in the earth plane - when in fact, perhaps we (humans) are intended only to be cycled through this existence, and indeed an invisible soul body with consciousness and memory inhabits a temporary material body here. One has to ask then what is this earthly “pit stop” for, its purpose. Of course, material sciences cannot measure the invisible. The anecdotal “experiences” of persons under anesthesia, yet still having NDEs, are the only evidences we have for something which exists beyond the material world. I do not refute the process of selection for successful mutations, but we already know that certain energies and radiation (x-ray, proton and gamma rays, microwave) can change genetic arrangement in chromosomes. Is it a stretch to speculate that “God” or an intelligent designer used such energies to manipulate the genetic structure of individual organisms over time? Is it not possible to suggest that an intelligence could have influence over the material using such a tool to direct an evolutionary process? And if God is infinite mind and eternal, who are we to insist that God must create human individuals within the first few years of earth’s habitable existence, simultaneously with single celled critters? God can experiment as much as He (anthropomorphic I know) wants. Because it took time should not imply a designer is not involved. Show us all of the failed attempts to produce a viable human - or are these just too deep in the fossil stratum to dig out, as are the fossils of successful humans?
Here’s a question for you. Why do we have certain species that reproduce sexually vs. asexually? What benefit is there to the requirement of having males that must copulate with females of the species? Why don’t human females merely spontaneously bear more female children, as in a process known as parthenogenesis? Wouldn’t that be much simpler a method for propagation of the species, rather than risking that males not be available for procreation? Exactly when did this more complex and frankly unnecessary method of copulation and gender differentiation evolve in humans? You want to tell me that was through natural selection? And because it assures diversity of the gene pool? I get the diversity thing as beneficial, but to suggest that sexual reproduction and that complexity merely happened via random selection over time is a difficult pill. It is far too complex and goes above and beyond what is required to sustain the species’ existence. That a male and female of the human species could have been in exactly the same location on earth at the same time to do the deed and even know what to do is HIGHLY improbable. Someone will probably propose that human females produced litters of at least two children. One of the litter could have acquired the mutation to be a male, or at least a hermaphrodite. The mutated male individual might have died off before passing on his genetics. Parthenogenetic and or hermaphroditic females would have continued successfully and still be around today.
Not arguing with his statements, but holy voice cracks Batman.
Yep, good talk, but I'd really prefer him not to go so ridiculously squeaky at the beginnings of sentences.
I blame his intelligent designer
He's still in puberty. If you think he's sharp now, wait until he grows up.
salt water corrosion not rust, it was built of bronze which does not rust but corrodes in salt water.
Maybe some of those in-the-closet atheist preachers, like those in the Clergy Project, could preach the ID of Galen to subvert the toxic anti-science message of creationists.
I don't know offhand what percentage of believers are above average intelligence, though I guess the majority aren't, especially if one goes by the notion that religion is a means of control. Therefore every piece of literature aimed at Christianity should have a very lay person account accompanying it. This way we can further any cause from the get go.
His voice....
LONG LIVE T KING 👑👑 RICHARD CARRIER.
Bow down to Dick.
Reminds me of woody allan..not the bad part
Tertullian's few words proposition probably stemmed from the fact that the more a Christian speaks regarding the sciences, the more said Christian reveals his ignorance
P.S.--- It might be better stated "Vs. Wheelchair Christians" , because the meaning of Halakhah means to Walk with God, and too many are too lame to realize the point. Having said that, even though Richard is very sharp, there is definitely other knowledge he may need to know, like Gematria, Mishnah, and Talmud.
None of those things can really be described as "knowledge" of anything other than mythology and other superstitious ideas like numerology. What science is in the Talmud?
Im shocked!Greeks guesed evolution :D
As far as we know, the majority of the followers
of creation teachings are to be assigned to
those who have to fill their lives with practical
things.
Or those who attach great importance to the study
of sports activities. Or to the people who are so
indifferent to having knowledge about how they
can exist themselves. If you now assume that
the same assumptions apply to those who are
convinced evolutionists, we have a problem.
For what happens when the indifference to their
respective views turns into the certainty of the
accuracy of their respective views? And they
don't just smile at the others? When they despise
each other because of their stupidity?
What if the speakers of the respective idea call
for the destruction of the unnatural in the form
of their followers? We must find a solution to
this problem. What are you going to do, Richard,
when the people of Kentucky take over the US
government, with all the powerful executive
power?
What if they lose patience with you and don't want
to listen to you anymore? What if they close the
borders so that those who preach the
wrong can't flee?
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Threats... the refuge of the desperate.
The infinite monkeys on typewriters is a bogus analogy for evolution. Richard Dawkins explains that instead, if evolution's goal was somehow to write Shakespeare, monkey generations would slowly tend towards it. But like has been said, the argument is too far removed from evolution's ways.
so is GOD a bacterium? Created animals/plants to serve bacretial needs for locomotion, food, energy, breeding grounds?
A striking fact involving religion is the high number of Laureates of the Jewish faith-over 20% of total Nobel Prizes (138); including: 17% in Chemistry, 26% in Medicine and Physics, 40% in Economics and 11 % in Peace and Literature each. Of Nobel Prize winners 65.4% have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference. Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace, 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics, 62% in Medicine, 54% in Economics and 49.5% of all Literature awards. Atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers comprise 10.5% of total Nobel Prize winners.
I’m not saying it’s Aliens,but it’s Aliens!🤔
Wait a minute here, Galen. A skilled craftsperson makes something that you can't change *at all* without rendering it entirely useless, while it takes no special skill to make something that you can freely add and subtract stuff from and it still functions in some way?
Somebody's got a bonkers idea of what a skilled craftsperson is, and I don't think it's me.
Nature of Christianity
Christianity, according to the Bible, is not primarily a comprehensive philosophy, a higher
way of life, a superior code of ethics, or a beautiful system of theology. It
is all this and infinitely more. It is the worship of a Person. It is a walk
with God [ to be a Christian is to share the very life of God]. It is
identification with Christ in life and purpose. Christianity objectively is the
revelation of God in Christ as recorded in the Bible, and subjectively, the experience of the Jesus Christ the Lord in His life, death and resurrection by faith through the gracious
operation of the Holy Spirit. Upon that initial experience the Holy Spirit
indwells the believer continuously to make Christ real in his soul,
progressively transforming the personality into the image of the Savior and
identifying the believer with the purpose of God….
Christianity ‘s history over the past nineteen centuries-especially the last century and a
half -is assuring. Among the religions of the world, Christendom claims the
greatest percentage of adherents, sponsors the greatest humanitarian institutions,
supports the greatest missionary force in the world, and alone can claim true
ecumenicity in the sense of being present in every nation. The phenomenon of Christianity
is astounding and warrants investigation not only its claims and appearance but
of its very roots and foundations. What is the justification of Christianity’s
claim? What are the sources of its continuous and spontaneous drive in expansion?
What secrets account for the heroism of its adherents in sacrifice, suffering and martyrdom.
What are its ever replenishing, never exhausting resource for missionary
expansion? …..
Christianity claims superiority of ideology and a unique and extraordinary knowledge of the
ultimate power of the universe whom we call God. At the same time Christianity demands
absolute surrender to and utter dependence on God. Its truth, however, is not a
discovery of man. It is a gracious and miraculous disclosure-a revelation of himself
in …in proportional declarations and finally , completely and perfectly in the
person of His son, Jesus of Nazareth, who was God incarnated to reveal God fully
and finally to man. In Him, God and man meet. God entered into union with man and
at the same time drew man to God in an unparalleled manner. Here mystery and
reality face man. Here miracle and history unite to speak to man….
A Biblical theology of missions , George W.
Peters
Richard is a wonderful historian, but he is actually a bit over his head on this one. For one thing, his understanding of Darwin is largely limited to neo-Darwinism. I would note to that his comments on monkeys and typewriters show a surprisingly limited understanding of the statistics involved. Surprising because he seems to have a sound grasp of statistics in his other videos, but not so regarding monkeys and typewriters.
How is it you give no credit to the Egyptians who taught the Greeks?
The Egyptians had discovered some interesting thing but not like the greeks
Jesus/God was/is a truly patriotic American that wants to Make America Great Again. Fact!
The religions of the time are the things taboo to criticise. Today things like Holocaustianity
Carrier's constant use of the word 'actually' is a little annoying.
Carrier is a little BLAZFEMER
If he's doing what he really believes in, that would be all that God wants him to do. Or anyone else for that matter.
@@kennethkimbroug8087But Dick doesn't believe in God. So why would he do what God wants him to do. Now that is insane. He doesn't believe in God but he wants to do what God wants him to do.......Damn! Dick might need to go to Bellevue. " I want to do what something that I don't believe in tells me to do." That is insane. However...I believe you. Dick is like that.
33:39 Well the story of the kicking of Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden is an allegory for God not creating us such homogenous soul-bodies. Because then we'd be like Him and everybody knows, God CAN'T STAND competition. (Just ask Satan, formerly known as Lucifer.) ;^)
Yea, thank god he doesn't exist
VideoAudioDisco09 Joseph ben Pandera?
A comment.
God lives on his own time line . 😁
The truth is, the Bible is allegorical, it is the book of history of humanity and the earth.
According to the gospel of Luke, John the baptizer and Jesus Christ were born through angel Gabriel, a Spirit, therefore John and Christ are also Spirits. John represents religions/ beliefs (baptism in water) while Christ represents wisdom/ knowledge/understanding/reason/ education/science (baptism in spirit). They are in tandem and they are represented by churches and schools.
God Almighty, our Creator, the most Powerful, the Invisible, the Alpha and Omega, the Eternal Energy, that creates, holds and transforms everything in the Universe/ Cosmos, gives us wisdom and energy so that we can be able to create things and strategies which we may utilise to enhance our ways of living, heal our sickness, make our society better and even to save lives.
" Modern science/ technology is the fulfillment of the prophesy." Revelation 21-22
" Humans represent three major components, i.e., (Energy our Creator + Physical Body + Spirit/ Wisdom/Consciousness) = the Trinity. Humans represent the Trinity." This proves that God is always with us.
" Understanding the true light 💡 we welcome the Real New World the New Happy Peaceful Sustainable High-tech Paradise Planet Earth 🌏 Powered by God Almighty's Eternal Energy (the Alpha and Omega) that creates, holds and transforms everything in the Universe/ Cosmos." ( The Reality )
" To know the truth is one step forward, the rest of the steps come from courage to change one's self."
Good morning! 💖✌️💡🌞🌟🇵🇭🌏
Carrier should stick to the Bible. He even sounds impatient and bored with Galen's fabled bladder.
If you want to have a God make it Zeus or Odin not some shit from the desert.
Who should we believe a *religophobe* like carrier OR every ancient history professor who John lennox in an interview with Prof. Graham Clarke ANU said *"I know of no ancient history professor who has the slightest doubt as to the historicity of Jesus."*
Carrier cuts to the chase -- who ya gonna believe? And for most, it ain't him.
Not so Mr.rationalguy. Jung and Nietzsche have shown that Christian contributions are significant if not indispensable, from the popularity of monasteries, where the experimental method began, to the desire for truthfulness, faith that God created a world based on discernible laws, etc. Even Descartes, founder of modern mathematics, began to believe in the successful quantification of reality according to mathematical law after seeing a vision of what he called "the Angel of Truth," who told him that mathematics is the foundation of the real. This at the Jesuit college at LeFleche. The notion that had Christianity been a total success we'd still be in the Dark Ages is part of the mythology of rationalism.
Create a complex design and put it on shit
In another talk Richard discusses the crisis of the third century. Christianity is not all to blame for losing a lot of the knowledge the Romans used to have. They had a 60 year civil war and an enormous financial crisis. After that a lot was lost.
Even the simplest cell you can conceive of would require
no less than 100,000 DNA base pairs and a minimum of about 10,000 amino
acids, to form the essential protein chain. Not to mention the other
things that would also be necessary for the first cell.
Bear in mind that every single base pair in the DNA chain has to have
the same molecular orientation (“left-hand” or “right hand”)? As well
as that, virtually all the amino acids must have the opposite
orientation. And every one must be without error.
“Now,” explained Larry, “to randomly obtain those correct
orientations, do you know your chances? It would be 1 chance in
2110,000, or 1 chance in 1033,113!
“To put it another way, if you attempted a trillion, trillion,
trillion combinations every second for 15 billion years, the odds you
would achieve all the correct orientations would still only be one
chance in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion … and the trillions
would continue 2755 times!
“It would be like winning more than 4700 state lotteries in a row
with a single ticket purchased for each. In other words…impossible.”
Actually it's only 20 amino acids, and as many base pairs code for the same proteins, and many different proteins have the same biological function, and as nobody does promote the idea that what we see happened by chance, your calculations seem less than accurate.
+Elija D *Do you even realize that to formulate the probability of something happening, you have to have at least one example of it's occurrence? Just by claiming to know the probability, you are claiming it happened!!!!LMFAO*
*Furthermore, nobody has any idea how simple the first life form was, so, you do not have the data set to formulate the probability of it occurring.*
*One thing no legitimate abiogeneticist postulates is that the first life form had DNA at all!!!!*
*I understand how scary reality may be to you but, you should consider getting an edumacation.*
you are on utube because you are not a biologist, scientist chemist or professor , you are living out your fantasy on utube of an academic scholar when you are not. sorry but your claims are lies and false. i already know atheist propaganda.
i can see God's creation everywhere! did the stars evolve? did the beautiful blue sky? what about spring time, or fall? did you create winter? have you ever considered the chance of us coming from evolution is impossible. rhino, ants ,giraffes, monkeys, dogs cats, bear, fish, whales , kangaroo's
koala bear, pandas, elephants, possums, skunks, lizards, alligators, racoon.
all fruit trees all garden vegetables, corn, wheat, watermelon, peaches ,carrots, spinach,
cucumber.
you believe in miracles (evolution) as long as God does not get the glory, how lame is that!
everyone else besides atheist can see God in His creation. only those who don't want God to rule over us believe lies. this is evident in that you do everything you can to promote Godlessness and will not acknowledge God. His creation speaks of His Majesty! His creation speaks of His Goodness!
His creation speaks of Tsunamis, Malaria, and parasites, a creation that will kill you stone cold dead in all but 0.000000000000000000000000000001 of it's volume. In the time domain it's much, much worse than that.
Shanks, Niall; Joplin, Karl H. (1999). "Redundant Complexity: A Critical Analysis of Intelligent Design in Biochemistry". Philosophy of Science (The University of Chicago Press) 66 (2, June): 268-282. doi:10.1086/392687. JSTOR 188646.
Elija D "did the stars evolve?"
*Yes, only an unedumacated idiot doesn't know how the stars evolved.*
"did the beautiful blue sky?"
*Yes, only an unedumacated idiot doesn't understand why the sky APPEARS blue ONLY DURING THE DAY.*
"what about spring time, or fall?"
*Yes, only an unedumacated idiot doesn't understand why spring and fall occur.*
"did you create winter?"
*Uuuummmm, what?*
"have you ever considered the chance of us coming from evolution is impossible"
*Considered it, yes. Have you ever considered the fact that your incredulity is irrelevant to reality?*
"you believe in miracles"
*No, I don't. No step of evolution requires any magic what so ever. That's your domain.*
"you do everything you can to promote Godlessness"
*Yes, I promote reality. The reality is, there's never been any credible evidence supporting the existence of yours or any other invisible magician presented to me.*
"and will not acknowledge God."
*Nor to you acknowledge the Flying Spaghetti Monster!! YOU BLASPHEMER!!!!LMFAO*
*You're a joke. Get an edumacation, dumb ass.*
romanes eunt domus?! There's a centurio who's gonna cut his balls off! ;)
with God, all things are possible! Jesus is the Son of God. No matter how many books you read, how much knowledge you think you have, how perfected an accent you speak, you can never KNOW GOD unless He lets you. you haven't been invited and this is why you think like this. you are blind to the truth of God and you will never be able to figure it out, theorize through it, logically understand it, because you cannot read the white on the page!
but if you ever think you would like to know the mystery, the real one, not made up by you or people like this. who talk big words, puffed up, elephant talk, if you want to know (from a pure heart), then just ask for Jesus to show you the way!
Intelegent design! Lol
E Col Eye patent👇🏿
www.google.com/patents/US4371614
The misery of all atheists and the likes of Mr Carrier et al, is the failure to understand the divine truth:. That GOD CANNOT CREATE ANOTHER GOD!
then he is not all powerful, which is a claim that makes you a heretic.
+Yolando Soquite *A FICTIONAL CHARACTER FROM A REALLY OLD BOOK CAN'T CREATE ANYTHING!!!*
CARRIER IS NO SCIENTIST
henochparks Historians are not scientists? Right..
@@YuZewolf right but MANY scientists today are Christians, including the stanch Christian and Father of modern science Sir Isaac Newton. Archeologists ARE scientists and they constantly prove Carrier wrong.
henochparks Do you have any evidence for your claims?
henochparks Btw how do you know ur religion is true? Your Bible is inconsistent with historical claims... it cannot be taken seriously.
God created the animals to fill the earth. On day six, God also created man and woman (Adam and Eve)
in his own image to commune with him. He blessed them and gave them
every creature and the whole earth to rule over, care for, and
cultivate.
+Elija D *Please provide credible evidence that your invisible magician actually exists to perform any of those magic tricks you cited.LMFAO*
i will, as soon as you provide evidence that my God does not exist!
Elija D *Why would I need to do that? I'm not the one claiming it exists.*
like i said before, i make a claim and you decide if what I'm saying is valid. i am not going to prove anything to anyone. if my claim is not worth your time, then keep it pushing! don't stop on account of me. that is what i do! my life doesn't stop because of people making claims.if i think it's worth looking into, i do. i either do my own investigation or keep it pushing! don't wait for me to convince you. if i can talk you into faith, someone can most certainly talk you out. God has to convince you, not me.
Elija D "like i said before, i make a claim and you decide if what I'm saying is valid."
*No, you never said that. Since you offer no evidence to support your claim, your claim can be dismissed without evidence.*
"i am not going to prove anything to anyone."
*Then don't expect your claims to be believed.*
"if my claim is not worth your time, then keep it pushing!"
*Uuummmm, what? "keep it pushing"? WTF are you even talking about?*
"don't stop on account of me."
*Don't stop what? You're making zero sense.*
"that is what i do!"
*Still not making sense.*
"my life doesn't stop because of people making claims."
*So?*
"i either do my own investigation or keep it pushing!"
*WTF is "keep it pushing" supposed to mean?*
"God has to convince you, not me."
*A fictional character can't convince me of anything.*
the most high will remember all of you atheists
I find most stoners tend to have quite poor memories.
You know what is funny with all his Behe dismissal, Behe still has more published papers on ID then Carrier on Jesus.
Rationem auctoritatis quantum?
I could have more published papers than either of them, but that's not the goal. The goal is to have respected, accepted, published papers.
Wrong,wrong,wrong!!!!
Carrier is a turd. Smart, but dumb. Makes mountains out of nothing.
this is laughable.
Richard carrier! I dn't trust this guy!
Dick is just being Dick. Let him roll. He won't last long.