291 ‒ Role of testosterone in men & women, performance-enhancing drugs, sustainable fat loss, & more
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- View show notes here: bit.ly/42ML5hP
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Derek is a fitness educator, the entrepreneur behind More Plates More Dates, and an expert in exogenous molecules commonly used and misused by bodybuilders and athletes. In this episode, Derek returns to the podcast to explore the impact of exogenous molecules on male and female health. He covers testosterone, DHT, DHEA, progesterone, clomiphene (Clomid), hCG, and various peptides, alongside updates from the FDA affecting peptide use. Additionally, he addresses the recent hype around increasing muscle mass through myostatin inhibition via follistatin gene therapy and supplementation. Additionally, Derek discusses the various strategies that bodybuilders use for losing fat while preserving muscle, including insights on weight loss drugs.
We discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:11 - Testosterone and DHT: mechanisms of action, regulation of muscle growth, and influence on male and female characteristics
0:07:38 - TRT in women: the complexities and potential risks associated with testosterone use in women
0:22:08 - DHEA supplementation: exploring the benefits and risks for women, and the differing effects on men vs. women
0:28:38 - The role of progesterone in both men and women, pros and cons of supplementation, the importance of tailored doses, and more
0:38:32 - Measuring levels of free testosterone
0:43:42 - The trend towards earlier interest in TRT, and the risks of underground sources of testosterone
0:48:00 - The complexities and considerations surrounding the use of Clomid, E-Clomid, and hCG in TRT
0:56:46 - Low testosterone: diagnosis, potential causes, treatment options, and other considerations
1:07:44 - Growth hormone-releasing peptides: rationale and implications of the recent FDA categorization as high-risk substances
1:20:00 - Follistatin gene therapy and myostatin inhibition for increasing muscle mass: the recent hype online, human and animal data, and the need for more research
1:39:53 - Simple tips for lowering calorie intake and losing fat
1:48:32 - Methods of sustainable fat loss with muscle preservation: insights gleaned from bodybuilders
2:05:11 - Could prolonged fasting impact testosterone levels?
2:06:56 - High-protein ice cream
2:12:36 - Exploring fat loss supplements and drugs: L-carnitine, yohimbine, and more
2:23:57 - Potential remedies for individuals experiencing metabolic dysfunction due to hypercortisolemia
2:31:17 - The cornerstones of body composition improvement remain nutrition and exercise, even in the presence of exogenous testosterone
2:36:12 - The importance of approaching health advice found online with a critical eye and a healthy dose of skepticism
--------
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
Learn more: peterattiamd.com
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In this episode, we discuss:
0:00:11 - Testosterone and DHT: mechanisms of action, regulation of muscle growth, and influence on male and female characteristics
0:07:38 - TRT in women: the complexities and potential risks associated with testosterone use in women
0:22:08 - DHEA supplementation: exploring the benefits and risks for women, and the differing effects on men vs. women
0:28:38 - The role of progesterone in both men and women, pros and cons of supplementation, the importance of tailored doses, and more
0:38:32 - Measuring levels of free testosterone
0:43:42 - The trend towards earlier interest in TRT, and the risks of underground sources of testosterone
0:48:00 - The complexities and considerations surrounding the use of Clomid, E-Clomid, and hCG in TRT
0:56:46 - Low testosterone: diagnosis, potential causes, treatment options, and other considerations
1:07:44 - Growth hormone-releasing peptides: rationale and implications of the recent FDA categorization as high-risk substances
1:20:00 - Follistatin gene therapy and myostatin inhibition for increasing muscle mass: the recent hype online, human and animal data, and the need for more research
1:39:53 - Simple tips for lowering calorie intake and losing fat
1:48:32 - Methods of sustainable fat loss with muscle preservation: insights gleaned from bodybuilders
2:05:11 - Could prolonged fasting impact testosterone levels?
2:06:56 - High-protein ice cream
2:12:36 - Exploring fat loss supplements and drugs: L-carnitine, yohimbine, and more
2:23:57 - Potential remedies for individuals experiencing metabolic dysfunction due to hypercortisolemia
2:31:17 - The cornerstones of body composition improvement remain nutrition and exercise, even in the presence of exogenous testosterone
2:36:12 - The importance of approaching health advice found online with a critical eye and a healthy dose of skepticism
lol Derik explains complex biochemistry/physiology pathways. Peter - “yep makes perfect sense”
Explains making protein based ice cream in the ninja creami - 5min long explanation 😂
Creami is a game changer! It will blow your mind Peter 🤯
The night before: 6oz a2 organic whole milk, 3 scoops whey (ideally one scoop of mark bells carnivore protein powder with the organ blend), handful of ice. Blend it. Freeze.
Night of: 4min blend with lite ice cream setting in the creami. Flatten the top and then make a tiny well in the middle. add a scoop of PB2 and 2 scoops of Himalayan tartary buckwheat sprout powder from big bold health. Then 2 min with the mix in feature. Serve it up. This makes 3 nice scoops.
Repeat step one. Every night. And feed to your kids!
@@benparker5775 I use a creami to make mango icecream bars. My wife insists that she have a supply of them always on hand. Great stuff.
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT PODCAST!!! YOU AND DERRICK HAVE DONE IT AGAIN !!
The V-Shred ads are going to go crazy on this one!
Always a great time sitting down with Peter. We filmed another podcast right on the back of this one as well that I'll post in the next few weeks.
Thanks Dr Derek MPMD
But what was the gift you @moreplatesmoredates gave to Peter?
You're the best man, i can listen to you talk for hours and still want more. Should start a podcast.
DUde, why are you not creating content for own chanel? Like reddit reactions etc?
🐀
Aren’t they so good together?! I don’t know why it’s so great.
Perfect combo honestly
I agree. And I wouldn’t of actually guessed it.
@@TheTykusright? You’d think it would be another physician with similar accolades. It’s pretty impressive considering Greg doesn’t have a post-grad degree.
@@aaronbailey9454the guys brilliant. He has a lot of good stuff on his channel ‘more plates more dates’
@@aaronbailey9454it's not impressive at all having a degree doesn't mean anything. 😂 someone who has a passion for any field that a degree can teach you can learn more in 3-6 months than any degree will ever teach you in 4-8 years.
I would absolutely love a four-way podcast between Attia, Derek, Huberman and Galpin!
They mostly agree on everything tho. 😂 Just a huge echo chamber. Who can we toss in to mix it up a bit? Layne Norton?
swap huberman with norton and you sold me.
Can we get this duo regularly on a podcast please?!?!?!? Like once a month a podcast regarding hormones🙏
There’s only so much information they can go over for hormones and they are doing pretty well in these podcasts we already have now.
not gonna happen
@@brandonyoung4910agree 🙏
Get your TRT, be done with it
Great discussion yall! Thoroughly enjoy the conversation when both of you are on a podcast together.
The way you guys give the info is so well explained Derek should be invited more often to your podcast for educational purposes.
Just an incredibly insightful, indulgent and informative episode, thanks guys 💪🙏🙌
I had no idea what it was about DHEA and when I got my bloodwork done my DHEA SULFATE level was 1000 51.7-295.0 ug/dl. Estradiol was 49.9 7.02-49.06 pg/ml. Testosterone tot. 369.2 193.-740.0 ng/dl free Testosterone 77.72. 30.0-150.0 pg/ml
SHBG 25.4. 19.3-76.4 nmol/L
I wasn’t on it very long, but now I’m on TRT no AI dose of .1mg a day of 200mg/ml. Have only been on it for 3 weeks. 🥩👍
Awesome discussions. Thanks Peter.
💎Looking forward to my interview with Derek. He is awesome. Peter your content and research findings just keeps getting better and better! 🤓🤓🤓
Another fantastic episode, gentlemen. I thank you both for the quality of information shared.
I dont understand why they make so hard to get TRT and as Attia says he thinks many clinics are going to be shut down. Ive been suffering from low T more than a decade, I was always in low end ofthe range but not below the range. I just had enough and went to Asia and to TRT clinic.
Results after a year:
I bacically had no libido before now I think its what men normally have.
I have had erection dysfunction 10-15 years. Now that things is more like it was in my 20s.
High cholesterol has went to normal
High fasting blood sugar (Im T2 diabetic) has went to normal which metformin could never do.
I feel the pump and energy at the gym that I felt in my 20s (Im 50 now) --> I want to go to gym again, not force myself like past decade
More lean (which of course contributes to many others things but TRT was the catalyst for me to get there. back lean that I used to be)
Everything in my life is better and bloodwork too. In the long run I really dont care if this is going to take few years of my life or make me live few years longer (which I believe is more likely since I do everything better, even my diet) since that life is woth living and not being living dead.
For me TRT was solution. Who does it hurt if people who has these symptoms tries TRT if he has low T?? I just dont get it..I dont have any other reasonable answer for this but medical companies fighting againsnt TRT so they can sell more antidepressant which lower even more T and their bussiness is shining.
Guys, if you cant get help where you live, if you can go to places where you can try but dont go to black market since you never know what you get there.
Couldn't have said it better myself!!
It’s very easy to get trt.
Try Tongkat Ali! My husband and I have seen HUGE benefits in testosterone, energy and strength.
@@austintascious It's just another worthless supplement.
note that there are few studies on tongkat and the long term health effectsare not known. Not saying it's not worth considering if you really can't get testosterone; I have tried it myself before; but if available to you, TRT has a ton of research backing it and is well-understood @@austintascious
The king of bro science and King on CZcams dr.'s is a great duo!
Great episode. I'm a female, and though Derek is geared toward the guys, I found his explanations MORE informative than I've heard from anyone else! Great!
2:13:45
Derek unintentionally got Dr. Peter Attia to say "super superphysiologic doses". My life is complete :)
😂
@@MorePlatesMoreDates 🐀
I make my protein "shake" similar way to Attia, I use half/half unflavored and flavor whey powder mix, milk substitute, frozen berries and a tablespoon of greek yogurt plus one additional ingredient that makes all the difference which is GELATIN (soaked & melted). The end result is protein mousse that I can eat with the spoon (frozen berries set the gelatin in few minutes) as liquids don't induce the satiety in me.
Very interesting discussion! Love ❤️ you both!!!
Love nerdy stuff like this. Derek is so knowledgeable
My favorite podcast duo ever
Awesome I needed this talk !
I used bpc-157 in a postoperative orthopedic context and can confirm it works… well. Healed in half the time
Same - fixed my rotator cuff tear in 3 weeks instead of 3 months I experienced on a similar tear before. Amazing !!
@@geoffreyannesley8593 Did you use oral or injectable? Thanks!
how do you know half the time?
Using it right now after shoulder surgery w/ TB4. I think it's helping but the truth is you'll heal anyways and you probably shouldn't take chances on destroying a surgical repair, so erring on the conservative side seems wise. I'm WAY ahead of the PT schedule but it's not really possible to know how much the peptides contribute.
Derek has gone to another level doing these two podcasts. I've watched his podcast many times, which is good, but he's never been quite this good. I love it!
Glad to hear Peter mention Promix - amazing protein quality and great digestion.
Derek with excited expectation "What was her testosterone?". This was a great interview and you couldn't pick a better pair.
Hi Peter. I really love your podcast and the effort you make to really understand stuff. You are really into working out in the traditional Arnold Schwarzenegger style, I wonder if you maybe did some podcast about yoga, difrences about Iengar and ashtanga yoga, wu shu, Tai Chi on fisilogoy emotional and mental health? Could you send me the link to the episode or make one?
that collab i didn't know i needed!!!
Just watched the first part that came out a while ago. Very informative info from Peter and Derik
Amazing episode
Gentlemen, yet another enjoyable and informative top-tier chat!
Waiting for Part 3!!!
Good stuff very informative- very interested in peptides . Have shoulder surgery coming up - wondering if BPC 157 would speed up healing . Mention it to my orthopedic - he’s doing some research on it.
It would be great to have an episode like Egg Boxing where Peter teaches Derek to cook, including making the protein ice cream.
Very interesting point on fasting as i wanted to continue my 10 days water fast few times a year,i had some benefits and always sought it was actually increasing GH and T but I guess it my not be the case,can anyone share if had experience and tested levels(I only measured BG)
Progesterone is not the same thing as the many synthetic progestins in oral contraceptives and IUD’s. Natural progesterone converts to the “feel good hormone”allopregnenalone, but synthetic progestins do not. Synthetic progestins are implicated in risk for blood clots and cancers. Natural progesterone is available in US pharmacies by prescription so I don’t see why anyone would prescribe or use synthetic progestins.
I was around Peter Attias testosterone levels when i started trt. Started when i was 36 and been on it for 2.5 years now. It was the best decision i made personally. My mental health has dramatically improved, didnt take it for any fitness gains. Started it for energy and better sexual function, it exceeded my expectations in that area tbh, its actually kind of annoying now, in the libido department lol. The best thing i got out of it is the dramatically improved mental health, and im so fortunate for that. Kinda sucks being on another medication for life, but i think i made the right choice.
At least it’s a bio identical medication. If you’re quality of life has improved that much don’t second guess yourself. If you didn’t do it you’d be living a lesser quality of life wondering what if you did do it
@elliottrichardson8213 Yeah, very true! And it did get me off a couple different anti depressants/anxiety meds. So I think im healthier just in that regard. Just want to be as healthy as possible for longevity and quality of life, as you mentioned.
I’m 34, and just got my first bloodwork before starting TRT through a clinic. Do you honestly notice a big difference? It’s been 15 years since I’ve felt “normal” and have just accepted it as it is what it is. I’m very excited to see how it’s going to improve my life. Especially sleep. I have not slept through the night or more than 4 hours in 20 years….
@@tk4084and background, I’m a lifelong athlete. I train 24/7 have been in the fitness industry for a long time. I’ve put this off so long so it’s nice to hear feedback from people who it’s also helped.
@chasincreationz9364 It made a huge difference for me personally. Everybody will be different, though, obviously. About the sleep, it helps with some more than others. For me, it helped a little but nothing to Wright home about, I still get boughts of insomnia here and there but better than it was. For me it was more mental health, energy, and sexual function that has improved dramatically. I feel amazing compared to how I felt before starting.
For anyone that wants to see a condensed version of Derek's weight loss advice through calorie control I highly recommend the 10-minute, 2019 video on his channel titled "Why You Still Aren’t Shredded Eating Less Than 2000 Calories Per Day." I wish I had had access to that sort of info 25 years ago, but it's never too late. Great stuff if you're willing to count calories.
Amazing episode. Love that Aryton Senna tshirt
BHRT pellets here 1.5 months in. 300mg Oral progesterone at night with no negative side effects. I keep hearing 200 is max. Does the extra progesterone suppress my estrogen to a point I’m not going to see the benefits of it?
So appreciate the Gary Brecka call out. That Rogan podcast was a disaster. Brecka seemed to be confusing his own topics more than anything else. Tough to follow. Loved this! Both of you do amazing work. Thank you for sharing.
Brecka doesn’t seem to know biochemistry, everything is “methylation” with him.
I'm loving this combination
Banger as always 🔥
Love this stuff!!!!!
Did anyone break down the details of his protein ice cream solution? Did he just buy ingredients and a blender or was there another device? What were the ingredients?
Derek is a legend
How is that law change going to affect Meric Health?! Also, I had not heard anything about that. Very important update for me to have heard nothing about it.
Peter looks sold on the Ninja Creamy thing
What's Derek's last name? I want to see more of his content but can't find his full name or name of podcast?
Search "More dates more plates"
not even joking, no one knows his last name lol
What about Biote pellet therapy for women? What do you think of that?
Is it safe to stack a GHRP like Tesamorelin with a GLP-1 Agonist like Tirzepatide? Trying to retain as much muscle as possible while in a significant caloric deficit
Sure
I'm 58, recently put on testosterone. I'm thinking of also starting HCG to keep things the same size, etc. Will HCG increase this risk of hair loss, blood platelet size and blood pressure by increasing DHT?
Thanks
does trt increase hairloss?
@@spike8683 It can with some people. More so with those that have male pattern baldness genetic traits. I personally have only been on TRT for 6 weeks.
Should one one testosterone take enclomiphene concurrently? That is what i was prescribed, along with anastrazole.
I wanna hear about Peter and his Ninja Creami recipes in the future 😂
What a stud Derek. Love from Canada!
Great work guys, although I think you should split these 2-3 hours podcasts into smaller units. BTW, you can get cheaper ice-cream makers than Ninja's brand.
Fantastic podcast, thanks guys. I'll take Chris Masterjohn over Gery Brecka any day of the week, not even a question. Said goodbye to Brecka, Gundry, Asprey & co a long time ago, and (n=1) that alone probably helped me to have more money, be less stressed, worry about less things, do more of the right things, be better, have a much better scientific approach, thinking and language.
MPMD almost looks like a qualification when juxtaposed with Peter's titles, lol.
Thought the same thing lol
@@mikeallen86 Peter MD, Derek MPMD lol
So what does MPMD stands for? 🤔
@@habibmalik1619 More Plates, More Dates. Its a super popular youtube channel of which Derek is the creator
@@habibmalik1619More Plates More Dates
I'm 58 and my T is 42.7 nmol/L or 1231 ng/dL. I take no PEDs but am purdy cranky at times. I've measured it multiple times at different labs and hv seen an endo., but am told it's "just a finding"?!
W duo
I don' watch a lot of Peter's content but I love when he talks to Derek.
essentially exclusively typically
I took IPA and BPC and it completely SHUT me down, my test was under 100. It’s taken me several months to feel better and I haven’t gotten to my previous base levels yet.
You either took something different or were that low before. Ipa and bpc shouldn't interact with the hpta like that
The Ninja Creami is ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️. You will love it
It's the brand of the machine though right?
Cow elk tag in colorado for a resident is $50 out of state is $500+ but either way if you have a successful hunt you have roughly 500lbs of meat
You'll get maybe 250 at most out of a cow, 500 on the hoof, maybe.
42:50 classic MPMD
But what present Derek gave to Peter???
I’m loving the Ayrton Senna shirt.
Dope Senna shirt
Hi, so far great as always! But Is it really true that DHEA has no utility? I’d argue about that one. I think cortisol:dhea ratio actually can say a lot and can be a very valuable biomarker. No utility for T… maybe (for men). No utility at all. Debatable IMO. What about for example Dehydroepiandrosterone ability to protect hippocampal cells from oxidative stress-induced damage?
I was answering in the context of its impact on Testosterone levels as that was my interpretation of the question, although in hindsight I can see how you might take that clip as if I was giving a sweeping answer for all applications. I think it has context dependent utility for men and women. But for backfilling Testosterone levels, my answer is the same as shown in the podcast.
The reality is most men don’t want to go to an endocrinologist for TRT because most of them are absolutely awful at understanding testosterone and male sex hormones in general. I know it’s a big claim to say a hormone doctor doesn’t know about hormones, but I have experienced this myself and read about absolutely WILD protocols Endos put their patients on every day on various forums where people come for help.
Please get Dave Lee on
Peter, you were saying about clitóris enlargement in your patient on testosteron. How big here clitóris get? Do you know how big clitóris gets in people on testosterone who are aming for sex change?
I find very little info available on experience of being on TRT long term. If you get on it at 40, what is ur life going to be like at 60? Etc...
Nobody is studying it. This pod at least they make point to say repeatedly that its not something to embark on lightly, this is serious health choice you are making...
Swole
What’s your life going to be like if you have a Test level in the 100s at 40 and you continue to decline for the next 20 years?
Derek should be given a PhD, he's basically as knowledgeable as a endocrinologist
Anyone else notice him saying that tele health are for sure shutting down for trt?? Did I miss something
Vancouver’s in the hizzouse
Ultra low dose Anastrazole, .25mg 3x/week has been great for me... I've used both clomid and Test gel and the Anastrazole has been better for sex drive, mood then both by far... I'm someone Who has high but normal estradiol low normal total test very low free test and high shbg... I also was on finasteride for almost 10 years about 20 years ago Which I believe is the reason for my hormonal levels now... But I wish they would talk more about low dose anastrozole..
Be careful. Estrogen is very important. You do not want to have chronic low estrogen. Derek talked about this with that influnencer Joe before he passed away.
Literally got a V-shred ad right after this video lolololol GO AWAY VINCE! 😅
Ahhh yes of course, I understood all of the words in this podcast
Its funny how they list "Peter Attia, MD and then Derek, MPMD," LOL
Inj L-Carn is frfr btw. He seems to be downplaying it but I find it to be fantastic.
I would like to know your thoughts on injections for women. Especially for those that have absorption issues and don't love the pellets. The studies for women are so lacking, and I've seen such conflicting opinions.
Literally’bang for your buck’
Yohimbine is such a dirty stimulant. It gives me the jitters and makes my face red. It works, I'll give it that much, but damn, it's a rough ride.
Estrogen is anabolic because it requires energy generated by catabolic reactions. Therefore, the estrogen increases metabolism by creating a route through the cell membrane toward the nucleus, in which it stimulates various genes to regulate protein synthesis.
Ice cream is way better with added stabilizers. A tenth of a percent xanthan gum will make a miraculous difference to an imperfect ice cream recipe.
53:00 I don't believe Telemed TRT will be shut down in any way. There are too many social issues around this and politically both the Left and Right would presumably be in agreement on making testosterone easier to obtain.
Facts. The FTM movement could be what saves us lol
@@MarylandGuy-ey3st agreed
Youre not shut down on TrT if youre also taking HcG or a LH mimicking agent
You will still get shutdown. But yes it will stimulate LH. As soon as you get off, your htpa will still be shut down
Searle 2.5 footballs. Best Ever.
Dr Adeel khan is also doing an FH injection for trt. If works well be a game changer. They should talk about that
I think you mean LH
@@nothreeshoes1200just use hcg then lol
Key takeaways? If your test is at 400 should you TRT?
Thank you for the transparency in such a long conversation format! Delve into the weeds!
Wow. This is a lot of info for even the most educated viewer. I would recommend having a third person in these type of videos to act as a moderator or an advocate for the average viewer. For example, these guys were about 5 minutes into talking about Clomid in great detail before either of them said enough for me to infer that it is a drug to help improve testosterone (if that is even the case).
I would also be concerned (especially in today’s environment) that a viewer would hear this conversation, smart guys talking with big words, and just assume all of this means they should be taking or doing something that may not even be advocated for directly here. This is excluding all the people who can (and will likely) pull short clips of this video to advocate for their point of view or theory.
How's there so much scrutiny on peptides while SARMs are let go wild, when most of them are clearly dangerous in the dosages they are sold?
lmfao, it's like cooking for derek is out of the question
Australia needs trt clinics. Someone come and save us and start trt clinics in Oz.
THANK JESUS FOR ZAREK MORE ZLATES MORE ZATES
I always jack up fiber in a cut because it keeps you full forever.
You don't mention Derek's last name anywhere on these show notes.
Its his choice
Per Derek’s request
Derek is a gentleman, scholar, and bro-scientist with significant clinical experience. Do you think Dr Attia’s low T is related to frequent sauna use? Common sense tells me slow cooking your testicles in sauna cannot be good for your total T. Thoughts?
Yes. There is a reason why the testes are outside the body, to stay cool. He is cooking em.
@@Magar6I mean I doubt he uses it naked so it won’t get to the temperature the sauna is set at. Not to mention the exposure will likely be less than 30 minutes. Lastly there is no data I’ve seen suggesting frequent sauna use will reduce T.
@@elliottrichardson8213No data doesn’t mean sauna doesn’t reduce T. Studies show that sauna use reduce sperm counts, mobility and quality, which indicates testicles are in suboptimal state. It’s reasonable that this will reduce T.
Has it been studied though? If not, the fact that there is no data is not surprising, eh?@@elliottrichardson8213
@@elliottrichardson8213 one always goes to a sauna naked, they will be cooler but that's caused by the evaporative cooling (as it is with the rest of your body)
How about you 2 talk about bimagrumab?