rTMS: An Update on Recent Progress in Toronto
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Dr. Jonathan Downar presents an update on recent progress in using rTMS to treat depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, and eating disorders at the Toronto Western Hospital site of UHN. New techniques allow significantly faster, less costly, and more effective treatment for a much larger volume of patients. Recent brain-imaging research also sheds light on the mechanisms by which rTMS treats psychiatric illness, and may lead to an MRI-based test for predicting treatment outcome in individual patients.
![Dr Rustin Berlow TMS demonstrations [CloudTMS TMS Course - Marina Del Rey 10/2018]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WxCunEG2oi0/mqdefault.jpg)
I did this treatment in 2015 with Dr. Downar with amazing results. This treatment is life changing for some people. I'm incredibly thankful for the advances being made by clinician researches like Dr. Downar and his colleagues.
Hi Tanya. Thanks for sharing your experience. At what point did you start seeing results? I'm 4 sessions in and have only noticed increased anxiety and irritability so far.
@@liamc7097 A few weeks in. I just did the treatment again (April 2021)-at Sunnybrook this time as UHN wasn't running it-not as good results this time which is frustrating-perhaps pandemic stress etc. has something to do with it.
@@tanyamorrison885 Thanks Tanya. Did you notice any initial irritability /anxiety like i am experiencing? Also did you have a dip in mood before you started to feel better?
@@tanyamorrison885 did the results of the first sessions fade away ? how long did it take to fade away ? and did they do an fMRI for it like in the video (so not the normal/structural MRI but the functional MRI) ?
@@tanyamorrison885 Hi Tanya, Thanks for sharing. You mentioned you had the treatment done in 2015. It worked for you that time. You had the treatment again in 2021. Is it mean your depression came back ?
That was a great definition of depression around the 18 minute mark
Very informative. This gives a lot of new information on the current as well as future outlook of TMS. Hopefully there will be more health clinics like this in the states.
Wonderful potential treatment option for very difficult and devastating disorders. This video also lays the smackdown on the stupid but common sentiments that these disorders are only the product of lifestyle or should only be treated with purely psychological means - as if directly manipulating the brain is wrong or 'cheating'. Inevitably most of the people who say this stuff have not been driven half-crazy by a malfunctioning brain. Philosophize on your own time. What actually works?
"What if morning rush hour stayed on for 18 hours a day?" I have known what that is like for over 20 years with OCD. It sucks. It takes away careers, relationships, and your youth. (50% of victims manifest symptoms by the age of 14, and 75% by 24.)
What's interesting is our experiences do have a direct causal relationship with the development of our brains. Therefore, I don't think it's all one or the other. It's often both. These are complex issues.
You can also try fasterEFT, there are 1,500 videos online, or Havening technique, not to mention hypnotherapy. A good practioner can help but the fasterEFT can be done at home.
good stuff
thanks
BRILLIANT presentation! :)
I honestly think that this team urgently needs to team up with Obelab and KAIST. Portable, real-time functional neuroimaging devices like NIRSIT would aid their research so much!
Wow, this was super interesting. Really promising findings! Big thans to Dr. Downar and his team!
Attention!!! This is going to sound goofy. But give me a minute to explain. This is going to sound too good to be true. The proof is in the pudding. Take two aaa batteries.
Place one battery positive end first into left ear canal.Take second batteryflat end first into right ear canal. Put in as far as possible without touching ear drum. May need to lubricate ear canal if needed to slide in.wait 5 minutes. Remove the batteries. As I said the proofs in the pudding( putting). Do this as often as needed for depression. If you are bipolar, and are concerned about mania, reverse poles in each battery. Do the same, 5 minutes. Cheaper and safer than meds. haroldp4271@icloud .com enjoy!
Bente Warenburg I have discivered a cheaper as effective treatment using 2 aaa batteries. Place 1 , positive end first into left ear canal all the way up till just before ear drum. 2nd battery in right ear canal flat end first. Leave in only 5 minutes. Remove both batteries. 5 minutes, no more. Often as needed, when depressed. Cheap but at your own risk please.
Bente Warenburg this man has a very good oerspective on the out of box thinking
Great work..! I wondered why TMS just wasn't taking off as the mainstay of PTSD IN THE USA..! It's being adminerestred wrong inablining doctors to continue the OPIOID crises like a drug lord..! Great work make it pratcial please..!
27:40 mins "2 flavors of depression..." facinating.. if only i could get this deep scan.. longing to heal..
rTMS clinics are opening up all over the place now.
@@squamish4244 But do they all do PET scans to identify non responders to rTMS ahead of time?
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 No. That would be very expensive. (And mental health is not viewed as being on the same footing $$$ wise as physical health, unfortunately.(
I turned out to be a non-responder, at least for my OCD.
We Need this more in The Netherlands, even my doctor and hospital, din't tell us anything about this, my dad had a head-infarct/stroke last year 28th Okt. then 100 days in a revalidation center. but now at home for a couple months, and still not realy better, still arm/hand/fingers cramped up and no control from left leg/feet, and weird less feeling in left side of face. Hope i can send him to this machine, and that my doctor can send him there. hope this will help my dad. and just now my mom is speaking slow, also had to bring her to hospital, stil speaking slowly/double toung. and going home tomorrow.
Certain individuals including myself are reacting very poorly to this treatment. Made my anxiety skyrocket and then I crashed into a deeper depression than I’ve ever had.
Kyle, May I ask where you got your treatment and if you were on or off antidepressants when during the treatment. I am in Az and just got off antidepressants after 20 years! Thinking I should try TMS to restart my brain. What was your experience? it would really help me make a decision. Thank You
Tms has been miraculous for me.I have had extreme ptsd for over 30 years.
I didn’t find it helped me much either. Hard to know if it’s related, but 2 months later I began having seizures and now considered epileptic
@@ahskincare3150 glad it worked for you. It’s been miraculous at making things worse for me
@@reneetroggio1505 sorry for late reply. Did you do it ?
How does rTMS treatment overlap with medication? Is it possible to be medication free? Is medication stopped before treatment? During treatment? Or after treatment?
1. As a complete layman and as a suffer of depression, apart from the medical terminology which I don't understand, the gist of this makes perfect sense. So far my treatment for anxiety and depression has been over 8 years a common core prescription of Pregablin and for the depression, of which I was diagnosed about 5 years ago, Citralopram, Sertrolene and now just starting Ventroflaxine (apologies for mis-spelling). I'll add another comment as I'm running out of space....
2. ...continued. So 8 years ago, I am not sure what the trigger was but I was diagnosed with erithemia nodosa (spelling apologies!) which appeared as bruises and swellings on my legs and severe swelling in my ankles. This disappeared after a short course of medication and a few months later, a chest X-ray revealed swelling in the lymph nodes somewhere in the centre of my chest. This lead to a diagnosis of Sarcoidosis - which I'm not sure but sounds like a term which covers a multitude. Anyway, getting off the track.....I'll continue in. Next comment....
3.... Continued. So going back to the point of trigger, which I am not sure about...I had been working on an electronic design for a customer but had hit it hard for about 3 months working in the embedded code of the design in my garage for typically 2 to 3 hours, longer sometimes per night after a day's work and I must have not only exhausted myself physically but mentally too. This may have been the trigger. A further bit of background, I was aged 42 and had just completed a 22 year engagement in the Royal Air Force and had been in instructional delivery for the past 9 years. So from an academic and physical point of view, a very active time for me. So that's the background....please read next for the symptoms....
4.... Symptoms....during the lead up to erithemia diagnosis and following shortly after the period of intense work .... Extreme tiredness, mental fatigue, feeling very low, lack of interest in pretty much anything, overweight, sweating, crying, feeling scared that something terrible was about to happen and had no idea why I was constantly afraid. Fortunately I was in a job that was absolutely fantastic, I was in my elelement, I was running a design lab and at this time, unfortunately had lost all of my team, was told by the 'bean counters' that they wanted to close me down and I wouldn't get any replacements! So you can imagine, I was very angry and I started sounding off to my management which lead to me walking out and taking a week of for stress.
So I was put on Pregablin, I still have no idea why my GP chose Pregablin after I had gone to him saying that i couldn't cope with the way things were. Now looking back and again as a laymen, but from what I have read I think my diagnosis would have been GAD - general anxiety disorder. Anyway, I was given a dosage of, not clear on this but might have been 100mg single daily dose age and he gave me large size iBruprofen (600mg) to take for my back pain (can't remember if I mentioned that previously). The interesting thing was within a few hours, I said to wife, you know, I have a funny feeling that I'm starting to feel better. I have been on Pregablin now since 2007 and I cannot live without them! ....please read on....
6... Started my 2nd job 6 months after leaving the MOD was good for a bit working hours more normal but with a 37 mile drive commute each way each day which was a lot better. Trouble was I was falling asleep at the week nearly every day on the way home and had many a close call. Again, still very tired and unfortunately entered a phase over the next 2 years where I had an affair at work, had the odd one night stand and generally lost control of everything this lasted for 18 months before I quit this job after I had been suspended for anger outbursts and decided I wanted rid of the woman I was seeing as she worked in the same place. So I quit, moved back with my family, made things up, meanwhile as a consequence of my affair and the company trying to make me move closer, lost over 100k in my house as we sold it at a loss, moved into digs, my wife bought a new house. And afterwards when I quit, I moved back out of digs into her new house then we moved again, I quit the job and started a 3rd new job....
7....so now still was on Pregablin but had my antidepressant changed to Sertroline. Started new job, short commute, working conditions much better, pay better. Over 2 years now until last year. Starting to struggle with my work, thinking starting to become like wading through treacle. I was conference with my performance but felt that I still had to prove my competence as I kept making mistakes and forgetting things, mixing things up in my head and because of ths, I worked harder trying to learn more about the job and get into my comfort zone . The harder I tried, the less effective I became. I felt like I couldn't take any leave as it wasn't a good time, it never was a good time. By last year, I was feeling depressed again, getting angry, my eating was still all over the place since getting back with my wife, since she didn't drive and the Illness (dimensia) of her father meant that I no longer had time or energy to keep myself fit. My weight has now risen to an all time high of 17st 6lb for a 5ft 7 guy, not good. Consequently I feel like a walking time bomb, my thyroid is under active. Basically I don't know how long I can carry on. I have no interest in life, my hobbies and fitness or anything really. Feel absolutely shit and have often voiced that I don't want to be here....although I couldn't take my life as I just couldn't....but I still feel like I don't want to be here....
Would some sort of nutricial supplements like electrolytes or niacin improve the affects?
Nicotinamide riboside dinucleotide (NAD+) has really helped me. Finding a high quality version of it that can be absorbed sublingually (under the tongue) is key.
I am patient of mdd I am taking rtms treatment 20 sessions take now
How did this treatment go for you?
I had this done in September 2017. It involved two ninety-second bursts, ten minutes apart. It failed to have an impact on my OCD, but I went in knowing that it had only a 50/50 chance of working. It was also a 2.5 hour commute. But another machine will soon be available closer to where I live, and they will try another target area in my brain that also works for OCD.
valar ... oh no. :( I have pure OCD, and TMS is my last hope. Did you have it done again?
I haven't had a chance to. But please don't feel like it is your last hope. I have worked very hard on my OCD, which was hellish after I got hooked on benzos, and it has slowly loosened its grip. I have had tremendous help from energy healers, who are the real deal and not bullshit New Age crap. I am going to experiment with psilocybin mushrooms in the near future, as they have been indicated for OCD.
As a result of my torment, I have thoroughly educated myself on what needs to change and what IS changing in mental health, and many things are in the midst of tremendous upheaval right now. I wish I was 20 years younger, but then again I am glad I am only 40 and not 20 years older. Current mental health regimens will seem ridiculous in 20 years. That also helps keep me motivated.
Also, like I said, it is currently 50/50, which still means a 50% chance it will work, and if it does, it usually works well.
If you want to know more about what I have done to get a handle on the hell, please let me know.
valar ... I'm 34 years old. I saw my psychiatrist a week ago who also prescribed benzos and Zoloft. It is still in my cabinet as I refuse to take them. In the midst of everything, I'm going through a breakup. I'm having so many panic attacks per day that I'm losing count. It's getting harder and harder each day to work under this condition.
What are you willing to try? What I do works, but not a lot of people believe me or if they do, still don't try it.
valar ... I am interested in the details. Do you happen to have facebook messenger?
hi can tms treatment treat apathy in depression. thank you
That was very informative, i am currently looking into the use of rTMS in cognitive enhancement, do you happen to have any good sources in that direction for me?
Thank you :).
+jonas samuel You are very fortunate to be seeking rTMS for cogntive enhancement.
valinor100 i did a project for university on that topic, combined with neuro feedback training this could lead to interestng results.
jonas samuel
Well, what I mean is that you are fortunate that you don't suffer from a mental disorder. I don't really care if I get any smarter or not, I'm plenty smart and being extra smart doesn't really do a lot for happiness. I just want to feel better.
valinor100 yeh its not really about just being smart its about learning to use our brain to its full potential in many diffeent ways which could be good for all of us as a society.
but yes the other use is obviously way more important today!
I think artificial intelligence is going to take care of our need for more intelligence.
how far are they now for people who had a stroke ?
Can we please make it less expensive?, so we can heal the brain of many people. also that people with less money can do this. that would help alot of people.
38 minutes : 4 sec on 26 sec off 3000 pulses
592 pulses per minute
~10 pulses per sec
13:58
I have outlined my experiences below as a sufferer of depression and the total,lack of help that sufferers get in the UK. I have made 10 posts, if there any specialists reading this post, please could I ask you to take 10 minutes or so and read through my history of depression and please offer me some advice or hope please? Thank you.
Chris Cain I am not a pro but I know there are rTMS clinics in London, UK. Any chance you can give it a try? Call them or find something that is closer to you?
I am not a prof. But ketamine nasal spray was recently approved in the US for depression. It works instantly unlike SSRI's. I don't know if it has been approved yet in UK, but you could ask about trying in an off label use or try to get into a study there. I haven't tried it, but have read some of the research. We are looking into TMS for OCD. Good luck to you.
Does tms work for tinnitus ?
See "The Invisible Rainbow" re:tinnitus and YT on TENS activation of coclear/vagus for tinnitus
Was the cranial discomfort located in the center of the frontal lobe?
Your brain doesn't have any nerve endings. It's your scalp that feels agitated, right under whatever place that the magnet is focussed.
@@squamish4244 also the involuntary muscle contraction of the muscles under the scalp and or the facial muscles as well.
@@acidproductions11 Yes. My jaw clenched shut when I was getting treated.
Pulsed ultrasound is slowly replacing rTMS as the site-specific neuromodulation method of choice. It's much more precise and doesn't cause discomfort.
Recently I've turned to neurofeedback. It is extraordinarily effective for the whole spectrum of my mental health issues and general nervous system dysregulation.
wish he would slow down a bit
Andrew James, you can control the speed; click on the icon for settings; use 75% speed.
I want to know what the DOWN sides are: the unwanted effects? Every treatment has these but maybe like xrays you/we don't know what they are yet and in decades to come we may be outraged that people like you experimented on ill/disabled people, apparently you do it on what has become known as 'the mentally ill'?
I had weird rhythmic lacey effects in my left (closed) eye during MRI in 2008 (oddly none in the rocking juddering one in 2013-ish): the magnets were affecting my visual system (brain) but what ELSE did they affect and what are the LASTING changes? You say your rTMS 'cures' depression = for ever or what? And what if the depression is caused by illness/disability, poverty, bad housing... can it make us happy-happy-happy to put up with that/able to survive on 'social security' (ha ha= no: a lie) payments which aren't enough to live on?
Interestingly I also get these lacey effects (in both eyes) since my brain injury and when WAY too tired (too much noise, too hot/too cold where I live, too many tasks - no help = too many stressors...) and then may get a blank white square where my brain/mind is - it can't function and often I'm paralysed and just lie (try to get comfy: mega neck pain) for an hour or so. Sometimes I sleep: exhausted after. What weird effects do your clients (or are they patients?) report: during and after and longterm?
How do you explain the risks ( unknown to you at present?) and how can mentally ill people consent to be experimented on like this = extreme desperation/no other (wanted) choices/solutions offered?
I had an injured shoulder that wouldn'tget better. One day a friend offered me her magnetic electrical plug-in gadget to cure it. I snorted in disbelief but said I'd try it. Maybe a coincidence (but it'd been injured a long time) but within 2 days the pain had gone!
But I'm not sure we should be playing with magnetism in our brains? Better than drugs maybe but we don't know. Think of thalidomide, lead, lobotomy...
I look forward to your updates/response, many thanks.
Jenny Hughes well how the hell can these guys get any headway, they need to research on 'sick people' read my experience above, even if I could just get a damn MRI scan so that I could see for myself the dysfunction of my own brain behaviour old be a start. As far as I know, nothing like this is happening in the UK, we just get pills shoved down our throat and told to get on with it. I would live to be part of a trial like this. Better than doing sod all about it. Sorry for the rant, you have a valid point, I just don't see it from my angle that's all. Take care x
Jenny Hughes mentally ill people are not by default incapable of making rational choices or decisions. And the rTMS treatment is only "tested" on people whose doctors believe it could be beneficial AND if people agree they want to try this.
Just as food for thought: someone who has major depression may be highly suicidal and not live more than a few more months. What would I rather want - rTMS treatment with a possible long term risk or die by suicide within 6 months?
I have chosen rTMS and will be starting next week.
Oh I forgot: rTMS has been around 20+ years and so far no long term negative issues have been shown.
How has it gone for you?
@@buffplums www.psychiatrycentre.co.uk/repetitive-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-rtms-clinic/how-much-does-rtms-cost/
crazy thing but depression is not in the head.
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