Vanguard Control | In-depth Paddle Review With Comparisons
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 07. 2024
- The Vanguard Control was JUST released. I've been testing it out for the past month and here is my in-depth review to help you decide if it's worth it. I put time stamps below so you can skip around to what you're looking for:
Time Stamps:
0:00 Overview
0:23 Out of the Box
1:08 MACRO Close Up of the Grit
2:45 Note on AliExpress Knock Offs
3:07 Specs
4:29 Surface & Core Material
6:18 Performance
7:27 Sound Comparison
8:00 Weight & Power
8:32 "Soft Touch" vs "Pop"
9:52 Vanguard Control vs Engage MX 6.0
11:49 Vanguard Control vs Labs 006
13:18 Cleaning The Paddle
15:03 My Recommended Modifications
17:01 Concluding Thoughts
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Vanguard Control: www.selkirk.com/products/vang...
Use Code: ADV-EDJU for free $20 store credit đ
Other Paddles Featured In Video:
Gearbox Pro Power: bit.ly/gearboxpro
Engage Pursuit Pro MX 6.0: amzn.to/49szdDU
Labs 006: bit.ly/labs006
Modifications I Use:
Hesacore Grip: shop.hesacore.com/products/pi...
UDrippin Overgrip: www.udrippin.com/products/pur...
Use Code: EDJU to save 10% đ
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Games filmed on SWING VISION. Free Swing Stick Here: swing.vision/r/edju
Other pickleball gear I'm using right now: bio.site/edjupickleball.com
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/ edjupickleball
/ edjupickleball - Sport
UPDATE 2 (2/28)
Selkirk listened and they just put swing weight and twist weight stats on their website!!
Swing weight: 114
Twist weight: 5.88
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Update (2/27): been getting a lot of questions about swing weight and twist weight! I did a survey on IG and didnât realize how important this metric was for you guys.
Iâll order one tonight so I can get those stats for you guys from now on. Do you guys have any recommendations on what machine/device is best to measure that?
EDIT: bought the briffidi with all the adapters. should be getting it in a few days. Thanks guys!
Check with Chris Olsen and John Kew, because they have one and have measured the swing weights and twist weights of different paddles.
Briffidi SW1 is the one Chris Olson uses. I believe you have to buy the adapters for pickleball and for Twist Weight as well.
@@BlGSacthanks! Just bought em!
@@edjupickleball Be sure to write them off as business expenses too haha.
You should watch Pickleball Effect and John Kew so you can see how important paddle stats are important to everyone. Those guys are setting the standard in paddle metrics.
Nicely done Ed! This review was informative and easy to watch.
Great review, Ed! I really enjoyed watching it!! I think I need to buy this now.
Great review Ed!! Thanks for this
Great review Ed! Clean and right to the point.
I really appreciate the sit down style. Well done
Thanks for the review. Appreciate the sit down conversation style review.
thanks! yeah in the past I spent alot more time filming fancy footage and memorizing script which just ate up all my time. this time i wanted to just give a more candid look at my thoughts. hopefully it wasn't too boring though haha
agree
Thank you so much for all your research and knowledge, appreciated great video.
Great review EdâŠthank you
Thanks for doing all this hw!
Iâm glad I bought it during the early release! đŹ arrives tomorrow!
niice! let me know what you think
Thank you for the review. I really enjoyed your comparisons with other paddles and your thoughts on modifications to this paddle. I will have to try it without lead tape first and the thinner Hesacore grip. I bought the midweight paddle with the thin grip and weight range (7.7-7.9 oz.) modifications during the early release last week. Still waiting for the shipping email. Hopefully, I will get the email in a couple of days. Thank you and have a wonderful day.
I think that's the way to go: definitely try it stock first and then add mods as you go to tweak it to your liking. I used to throw on lead tape no matter what "because pros do it", but I've found that tinkering the paddle to my own preferences is the way to go.
Well done Ed, didn't miss the fancy B Roll or any of that. Only thing I'd like to add is the Engage Pursuit Pro's are often on sale (at least once per month) so they typically sell for $160 refurbished or $207 new! That's coming from an ambassador and avid MX 6.0 user. The Vanguard sounds like a winner for people who are looking for a lighter paddle for sure! I hope I can hit with it from our local Selkirk dealer soon!
Oh wow! I REALLY like the engage pursuit pro mx 6.0. I paid $233 for mine on amazon, but $160 is an insanely good deal. I've just been screwed over by "refurbished" so many times in the past that I'm a major skeptic now haha.
Thanks for the early review! Do you know the swing weights on these?
Thanks Ed. Did you get swingweight or twistweight measurements you can share? Or have you not grabbed a briffidi yet?
How does the power and the pop compare to something like the Vatic Prism Flash? Your thoughts on vibration tradeoffs (for tennis elbow) was very interesting-what other paddles help reduce vibrations?
Debating between this and the ruby. Iâm a left handed player wanting to emphasize the natural spin I produce already and more control from my current paddle- the Halo XL. Any advice? Thank you and keep up the great content!
How would you compare the play of the paddle to a 16mm Scorpeus?
Ed. Txs for the careful review. BTW I tried to use your code and the discount doesn't show
How would you compare the same Invicta model with the S2 and Epic models? Is there one style youâd recommend for a 3.5 level who uses a lot of spin in their game?
Ed, your thoughts on shape - for a fast-improving older intermediate?
A number of your paddle-guru peers say that itâs usually better to start with a hybrid or wide body - that elongated paddles are more technical - but since this is so quickâŠ?
How does it compare to the Luxx?
I do think this is marginally better than the Luxx for two main reasons:
1. RFC (raw carbon fiber) is undoubtedly the superior material compared to paint grit (Luxx uses this). For this reason alone, you will notice more spin and traction on the vanguard. This technology isnât new by any means, however Selkirk claims that they are using âquadcarbon fiberâ which they developed in the labs 006 phase.
2. Power to Weight Ratio. These are both control oriented paddles so you wonât notice a MASSIVE difference in play style of these paddles. What I really like about the vanguard control though is the RATIO of power to weight. The lightweight model came in at 7.3oz. This is one of the LIGHTEST paddles I have ever played with. As I mentioned this in the video it's SO LIGHT that I was actually concerned it would be blown away by hard shots or it would twist in my hand. This was not the case. Since the vanguard uses the same core as the labs 006 (X5 core), which is VERY good at muting the ball and reducing the vibration. Meaning: this a VERY light paddle that just absorbs everything. You can hardly feel the ball. (this has pros in cons which I touch upon at 8:32)
In short: I think if you already have the Luxx- itâs hard to justify spending another $200 on a SIMILAR control oriented paddle. But if you were on the fence about the Luxx or labs⊠then I think the vanguard control just marginally wins on almost all fronts.
Isn't the Luxx thermoformed? Wouldn't that give it more power? Which has a softer feel on the surface?
Thanks, Ed.
Youâve answered my biggest question - LUXX vs. Vanguard Control.
In your review, you seem to have used the elongated version of the paddle. Am I right?
Thx Ed - Just ordered one. I had the same observations from the 006 and sounds like they took the feedback and put it into this paddle. Look forward to getting it, thx for your content! Which setup did you end up preferring with our without the pink hesacore?
My two favorite set up is Naked Stock + udrip overgrip OR Stock + pink hesacore + udrip. When I make the video cutting up this paddle, I'll show you guys what the handle looks like. It's like kinda exposed polymer with a plastic strip to guard it. Kinda weird lookin
@@edjupickleball Do you have the weight difference for these setups? What differences can you share with the PK Hesacore? I like having the hesa core on the paddle, but also like the concept of keeping the paddle light. TIA
@@chinnobi Yep!
My final weight for the lightweight vanguard + pink hesacore + udrip overgrip came out to be: 7.81oz
Final weight for midweight vanguard + white elongated hesacore + udrip overgrip came out to be: 8.16oz (as shown in video)
Final weight for lightweight vanguard + just overgrip: 7.5oz.
Just one small note: the vanguards to come in varying weight ranges, so your set up could be slightly different than mine. Sometimes Selkirk will let you choose a specific weight.
@@edjupickleball Awesome thx Ed. I'm definitely going to experiment with the custom options available. Thx for the reply!
Have you tried the Epic shape? The Selkirk website states the sweetspot and swingweight is lower. Opinion on performance on both?
I have on all their other series and you can essentially conclude the shapes offer the same trade offs for all of the series.
Bigger sweet spot laterally vs length/reach.
Looking good Ed! And love the grit sound effects. I heard you were in the East Bay recently. Come gets some games at the HUB Alameda. ( and bring me one of these USA made Vanguards!)
I was just visiting there yesterday! I was informed of some strict rules for me filming there though, so it might be hard for me to justify making a trip out there regularly :-(
Bummer! Youâd think theyâd appreciate the publicity. Donât you have like 1million subscribers?
Manor down in San Leandro is nice. Public courts and brand new.
@@KaviSabinaDad perhaps they have enough publicity haha.
Iâm currently looking for private facilities to film at so Iâm not interrupting anyoneâs open play time.
Iâm sure Barry and Paul told you about Harbor Bay Club also in Alameda. If you have not already connected with Jean their new pickleball director I can steer you in her direction.
Great review, might have to consider this paddle since Iâve been thinking about getting another one. What I really want to know is where you got that crewneck from? đ
Maggie says: âmate the labelâ
Sheâs my brand/aestheticâs manager đ
Wait Ed, your review really described and compared this paddle as having some serious pop, power in terms of it's similarities to the MX? Selkirk's website is saying the Luxx actually has more power, do you think it's more of a preference or how the player generates pace?
Wait also what is the handle like on this paddle? They did not mention anything about 360 proto-molding, heat-pressing or thermoforming for this model? Thanks
Is this the mainline version of the 006? Seems like it.
Ed, have you tried WILSON Blaze Series paddle?
I have not!
Is this the production 006?
Great video, I am a bit confused as to why someone would buy this over the LUXX. Maybe you cover this in your video, but isn't the LUXX control just strictly "better"? If not, what am I missing between them? Thanks for any help!
$250 vs $200
Painted on grit versus RCF
How does this compare to the Halo Control XL? Which do you like playing with more?
Halo is pretty outdated and doesnât have great grit. Itâs a nice control paddle at a âcheaperâ price but for $140 I think youâre better off with something like a vatic prism flash.
Are you going to split this one in half Iâm wondering what an x5 core looks like.
Yup! Itâs on the docket. Iâm cutting up this one, gearbox pro, and engage Mx pro soon.
The x5 core SHOULD look identical to the labs 006. (Thatâs what the website claims, and what Iâm gonna fact check)
Which U Drip overgrip? Thinner Pro or Custom?
Pro white!
Paddle companies are putting out WAAAAAY to many new products..
They need to slowly get products out twice a year vs a new paddle every month.
Work more on technology and then release November and April, give players a chance to use their paddles before making them feel like they have to buy the NEXT one..
At $200+ this can be expensive...
Rrright? Compares to a tennis racket, itâs just waaaaaay too expensive.
Thanks Ed, this new paddle from #Selkirk looks amazing, thanks for the review and for sharing it. How about tungsten tape for extra control, maybe just a strip on each of the sides ?
BTW finally I was able to order some Hesacore gel grips YEAY !
That's definitely acceptable! IMO, this paddle is already SO control oriented that I personally didn't feel like I needed to add MORE weight to add MORE control. IDK if that makes sense, but from my testing with it, my favorite part of the paddle was the ratio of LIGHTWEIGHT:Control. Adding tungsten tape will change that ratio, so it's definitely up to you!
Thanks@@edjupickleball I appreciate your feedback. Just ordered mine (still smiling)
and will try with an extra strip of tungsten tape on each side for my lack of control LOL just in case, also will try my and finally Hesacore gel for my tennis elbow issues.
@@juancmunozr If you have tennis elbow, I would HIGHLY recommend trying this without additional weight. Something that really helped me was to improve my technique and fluidity of my strokes-- that is going to be the best for your tennis elbow long-term even more than what hesacore can do. The reason why hesacore helps with tennis elbow is because it allows you to have a looser grip and be more relaxed while holding your paddle. But if your paddle is heavy and you're still being super "ARM-Y" with your shots, your tennis elbow won't improve.
@@edjupickleball Thanks and I sure will give it a try !
Nice. How do you know that paddle is made in the US. I'm pretty sure I found out they were assembled in the US. Translation, they receive shipment from China and wrap the handle. Prove me wrong, please
How is the power compared to a luxx?
More powerful when I was testing serves. RCF is just so much better at gripping the ball vs paint grit (luxx), so you get so much more BITE when you hit with the vanguard. At the end of the day, they both are still control paddles, so I don't think you'll be like mind blown by an increase in power.
I've been playing with the gearbox pro the past few weeks and THAT paddle I can for sure tell a difference. Like holy cow you can hit like a truck with almost zero effort with that thing. I personally really really like it, but I hear most people don't have the touch and finesse to control the poppiness.
So... I guess what I'm trying to say is: Yes, it's more powerful than the luxx, but not by a super significant margin.
How come the paddle has not been released yet
I just got the Selkirk email stating it was.. literally, just now.
Why does the design alone sell me on it? haha
I use the labs 006 and have it weighted up to 9.6 đ
Jack Sock, is that you??
Iâm 9.2 and canât put my 006 down
@@edjupickleball give me a year and maybe...
Luxx feels slow at the line, the increase in thickness also increases drag..
Fast hands? not for you...
This one "may" be different...
I came from Gearbox, and actually feel like Luxx is notably faster at the line, and offers WAY better control, and resets are a dream, too.
The paddle not being Thermoformed and at the 200 price tag. It's not something I'll personally be buying. I appreciate Selkirk doing their own thing and sticking to what they feel like instead of what the industry is doing.
I hear that, and I agree- thereâs so many companies doing VERY different things out there these days. Iâm currently using the gearbox pro and I LOVE it. Way different paddle than anything Iâve ever tried.
With that being said, thermoformed isnât everything tbh. The engage pro Mx 6.0 is one of my other favorite paddles and that one isnât thermoformed either. It seems like- Iâm just learning this for myself too- that thereâs different technologies besides being thermoformed that can make paddles REALLY good.
What did they do differently with the core, etc?
Difference between luxx and Vanguard. They're both control paddle.
006 uses 12k carbon fiber
Probably why itâs finer grit
That thumbnail is some hard clickbait. They should have made a silver one
How does it compare to Luxx Control?
Check some of the other comments - Ed goes into that in some detail.
Short version - he likes the raw carbon faces of the Vanguard over the painted clarity of the LUXX, and how light-but-stable the lightweight the lightweight version of the Vanguard is.