How to Spot FAKE Shoe Sole Stitching!
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- In this video I show several examples of shoes that have real Goodyear welting or Blake Stitched soles, and ones that have false (cosmetic) stitching. More and more shoe manufacturers are making it harder and harder to tell a cheap cemented shoe from a well constructed shoe. I show you how to tell the difference, and why you should care. I also show a few clips of some neat vintage NOS shoes I've come across while thrifting.
If you're not familiar with the difference between a Goodyear Welted, Blake Stitched, and Cemented construction shoe, please watch the following video first: "Goodyear Welted vs Blake Stitched Construction Shoes" • Goodyear Welted vs Bla... . It will really be a big help to understand that first as a foundation to this video.
1:55 What is Goodyear Welting & Blake Stitching?
4:07 Blake Stitched J&M loafer sole failing with a decorateive welt
6:02 J&M cap toe Derby with false sole stitching & decorative stitched welt
7:11 J&M 1850 line Oxfords with false stitching on bonded soles
8:15 Vintage Bostonian loafers with real Blake Stitched soles
8:33 How to spot fake Blake Stitching (Florsheim vs Allen Edmonds)
9:50 Cole Haan Grands wholecut Oxfords with false stitching
10:37 NOS vintage Sears wingtip Oxfords that are completely cracked
11:16 Bates DuPont Corfam LWB (Long Wing Blucher)
12:27 NOS vintage Hanover kilted tassel loafers that are either genine Goodyear Welted, or Blake Rapid stitched.
**SORRY FOR NO NARRATION on this part! the Audio got FLAGGED for Copywright because there was music playing on the store PA system!!
14:01 How spot fake Goodyear Welting by counting stitches & the distance of the stitches from the edge of the sole
17:04 Getting info from the manufacturers website. If it doesn't SAY Goodyear Welted or Blake Stitched, it's probably NOT.
18:33 Closing words & Outro
Music Credit:
"Shine On" from CZcams Free Audio Library
"Rise!" by Aq Xico, produced by Alegal, used with permission.
Song is available on Soundcloud: / rise
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Also available on iTunes - Jak na to + styl
Very helpful video indeed! Will be looking for this clues when shopping.
IMO fake stitching should be punished or at least prohibited as manufacturers go as far as stitching "real" stitches that go nowhere in order to make the shoe present itself as higher quality to the untrained eye. The majority of people that know little or noting on shoes will be falsely convinced of the quality of some of these products.
Cheers!
Most educational video on Blake stitch and Goodyear welting I've seen on the internet.
Much appreciated.
Thanks.
Thank you Robert! I love how you are able to clarify this confusing subject with actual examples of the types of stitching.
David Bowman - thanks! I’ve been collecting little video clips for months now to put this together, LOL.
I already had a couple of Florsheims fail on me with the sole delaminating. They were just put together with glue and one had a faux stitch.
Excellent video really helpful. For decades i've never known how shoe shops have been misleading us. Thanks Bob!
Hey, "Cobbler" Robert, this one is SO HELPFUL! I and many more can apply this analysis to many of our shoes!
The equal stitching from top to bottom is an excellent point! Thanks.
Hi Robert
I love your content.
I wish the harsh comments that probably occurs from time to time weren’t so difficult for you.
You are so into your niche and you are very knowledgeable - and you put yourself out there. That should really be enough for you and also for the haters.
I wish you the very best for 2020
Friendly regards from Denmark
Jacob
Jacob Rytz Hansen 🙏 thank you!
Great video! I am learning how to tell the difference between a good shoe and a useless one. This video has been so far the most useful! Specially the many examples :)
Thank you Robert! This video is just what i needed. Very helpful indeed
The bounty of average sized shoes in second hand stores is amazing. I can only dream with my size 14 wide monsters. Very informative video. Thanks for sharing.
Hey Robert, great video! Really liked seeing the different examples of shoes.
Happy holidays!
Great information, you are teaching me so much, keep posting awesome content and I will keep eating it up, you the man Robert!
A really helpful video. Showing examples was particularly useful. Thanks.
Terrific video. Answered so many of my questions. Thanks
What an eye opener! Thank you!
Very educational! Thanks CobBob!
Great Stuff to know. This information will help save you money in the long run.
wow! this is such an eyeopener and so overwhelming! thank you sir!
Jonathan Titilola Olakunle 👊🏼😎
Great vid! Thanks for putting this together
this video was very imformative. learned a lot from you sir
Very informative. Answered a lot of my questions! Thanks!
I'm glad it helped! We need to be more informed these days. Thanks for stopping by and taking time to comment Sir!
Very helpful, Bob!
Thanks for the in-depth info
Wow that was amazing I learned a ton thanks!
You’re quite welcome! Feel free to share it with friends!
Thanks so much for this VERY informative video. I think I've known for a long time that some of the 'stitching' you see on top was fake but this video demonstrates how CLEVER the cheaters are when it comes to stealing your money.
Fake is an art and they'd rather sell their reputation dishonestly than keep the quality and raise the price.
There are, believe it or not, people that will STILL happily pay for quality.
Cheers from Canada North
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative thank you very much for the helpful tips
really informative, Thanks :)
MERRY CHRISTMAS ... THANKS FOR POSTING
Alvin Prettyman you’re very welcome!
I was looking at some Allen Edmonds in eBay. You should do brand specific videos on spotting fakes. Thank you for your education you share with us.
Very helpful video. I think the distance of the stitches from the edge of the shoe can be visibly very different between the welt and the outsole. The sole isn’t a flat straight piece. It curves up both length and breadth wise, and that curving can result in very different distances of the stitch from the edge when you see from top (the welt isn’t that curved) and the bottom (outsole is curved/bent).
Excellent explanation. Now I feel better informed...I have subbed to your channel...
Glad you liked it! I think i have a lot of good content on my channel, but be warned, the farther back you go chronology, the worse my video production quality is, LOL. I’m learning as I go. My early videos may make you seasick, LOL.
Excellent video! I'm going to go check out my Florsheims now.
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
This was incredibly useful Robert! I have a pair of red Florsheim wingtips and when I took a look once again I almost freaked out because there are stitches on the outsole but not stitches inside the uppets, so clearly no blake stiched. So i was wondering....are these goodyear welted??... They don't look like that... because there is no stitching around the exterior of the uppers...i wanted the truth so I decided to cut the sole open to see if the shoe had the stitches holding the outsole, and I found them so yeah everything is fine with my florsheim's hahah...but they are weirdly made.... there is only stitches on the sides but not around all the shoe.... Its just weird... anyways ...
Great info
Merry Christmas, Bob, to you and your family.
In the past few weeks I've found several great shoe deals on clearance as well as new or never worn past a try on in thrift stores. I've been able to make highly informed purchases because of your videos.
For example, I just found a pair of Italian made leather top and sole penny loafers that are genuine Blake stitched but made from corrected grain leather ($15.99). These had been tried on but never worn. Last week I found a pair of never worn, made in India Arnold Palmer laced top grain leather moccasin style ($12.99) that have rubber soles but are also Blake stitched.
I used your what to look for tips such as looking under the insole for stitching and examining the look and texture of the leather to see if it was corrected leather to be reasonably sure of what it was I was purchasing. I know these shoes are nothing special but for the prices getting new or just tried on leather shoes that look good for less than $16.00 Canadian is a bargain even if they do last only a few years.
I even cleaned, conditioned, polished, and waxed them as you suggest to get the maximum life out of them. Thank you again, Bob. Your videos can help anyone on a budget or not find and maintain decent shoes for minimal price.
RPM nice! It’s a thrill for sure when you’re able to thrift some great deals!
@@CobblerBob Thank you again, Bob.
Thanks Robert, that was very informative. Could you go into detail about spotting the differences between a blake rapid stitched shoe and a goodyear welted one without taking it apart? Would highly aprreciate it.
The best way to tell the difference between those two, barring just being able to look it up on the company website (if it’s a currently produced shoe) is to look inside the shoe. Again, you’ve got to check if it’s got a removable insole liner. If it’s got a removable insole liner, carefully peel it back and look for the Blake stitching around the perimeter. If you see that AND it’s got real outsole to welt stitching, it’s Blake Rapid. If not, it’s probably Goodyear Welted.
Thanks much for this video!
Craig Brandau 👊🏼
really helpfull video.
It'd be good to see a video on fake leather soles. I've got a pair of shoes which I suspect are well faked rubber made to look leather with the colour and imperfections of leather. They are goodyear welt with reall stitching I think anyway.
Thanks for this video. I got ripped off too, by Johnston & Murphy, cap toe Warner boots. They look nice and cost almost $200. Stitches on top, stitches on bottom. But, they don't exactly line up. On J&M website there's mention of a "contrast welt." But after seeing your video, I snooped a little and other retailers add a bullet - cemented construction. It's deceptive. I really liked the boots but now they're kind of ruined for me.
Hi Bob,
Do you know anything about the brand Blake McKay? I ordered a pair of their Chelseas and suspect they may have a non-functional stitch applied to the bottom. The thread count doesn't seem to match up well and threading seems too far inward on the sole as opposed to the top of the welt. I'm going to try and give them a more thorough inspection later, but my hopes aren't high.
I’ve bought 3 pairs of Johnston and Murphy shoes from thrift stores because at $10-$15 it’s a steal. Also they’re comfortable and look good.
But how can i tell if it's fake goodyear welt stitch without peeling back the insole? There's a tell just from looking the outside stitch?
M.F - as mentioned in the video, look at:
1. The Distance from the edge of the welt to the top side stitch, and then the edge of the sole to the bottom side stitches. They should be very close to the same distance from the edge of the sole. If the bottom side stitching is much farther inboard, it’s probably fake.
2. Count the number of stitches per inch. If they do not exactly match, it’s fake.
@@CobblerBob thanks!
What thrift do you go to? Lol I never find good shoes whenever I go to my local thrift store lol
Yup I got screwed! Thanks for the info.
me too...on a few pair...lol...
Thanks for the information. I have a pair of J&M 20-1040 Suede Chelsea boots and a pair of J&M 20-3116 suede shoes that after watching this video, are probably glued down because I didn't see any stitching underneath the insoles and the outsoles are glued. Both were made in the Dominican Republic. Having said that, can glued down shoes be converted to a blake stitch or a goodyear welt? Thanks again.
I have seen a bonded sole converted to a Blake RAPID construction. They couldn't be converted to a Goodyear welt construction though. Blake rapid is when a cobbler would remove the bonded sole and stitch on a thin leather mid-sole onto it. Then, they would outsole stitch the outsole onto the new mid-sole. You'd have to ask a Cobbler if they were willing to do that. I'm gessing the problem you'll run into is that with many cheaper shoes, the insoles are thin, and they may also be weak because they're not evel leather. You may have a problem with trying to blake stitch the mid-sole onto the old insole. I've never done it so I'm just guessing here.
Thanks and I appreciate you taking the time to provide a complete reply. What if you replace the current insole with a genuine leather insole to match with a new leather midsole? Would that make for a stronger, more durable shoe, if possible? Also, I was thinking of using Vibram 700 Tygum brown cork soles and heels since they are casual shoes. Thanks again
Hi there? Can you convert a Blake stitch to a Goodyear welted shoe? Thanks.
There are exceptions, but no, not really. There’s usually not enough upper material to join to the gemming. That’s assuming you can add a gemming into the insole. What’s more feasible is to turn it into a Blake Rapid sole. That’s where you have a Blake stitched mid-sole where the current outsole is, then you stitch an outsole to the new midsole via outsole stitching like a GYW shoe.
Thank you Robert! Very interesting insights. Not so long ago I bought a Bally Scribe No. 2 (on styleforum.net they call it bally scribe vintage captoe) on an online auction website for about 200 $. It seemed to be a goodyear welted shoe and I even thought the sole was stitched on with a closed channel stitch. After a while the sole came off and to my disappointment it was just glued on! To my surprise underneath the sole there was some kind of filling (not cork, but some rubber like material). It also seemed to me, that there was some kind of stitching between the first welt and a, lets call it "midsole welt" which acted as a spacer for the filling and to which the sole was glued to. Have you ever seen any construction like this? Do you think it is possible to get it properly goodyear welted?
It’s a little difficult to envision based on just a description, but I think I get the idea. I guess anything is possible, but realistically speaking, I would guess it would be easier to turn that shoe into a Blake stitch shoe than into a Goodyear Welted shoe. To turn it into GYW you would have to add on a gemming onto the underside of the insole, get it in just the right place, and then add on a welt, fill the void, the. stitch a sole on. There are very few people outside of somebody like Bedo‘s leather works that would be able to tackle this, and he probably charge you in the ball park of $400 to do so bc of the labor. Again, Blake stitching it on means just stitching through the outsole to the inside of the shoe, which I think any competent cobbler could do?
@@CobblerBob Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I should have taken a photo when the sole came off. Yes, I guess a blake stitch would be the best and cheapest option here - or I'll ship it to Bedo when I saved up some cash ;-)
Robert: On the inside of the right shoe, on a pair of Allen Edmonds is the oval colored logo. Sometimes black, blue, or green. Is this a way to date the shoe?
Uncle Warren - have you seen my “How to Date Allen Edmonds Shoes” video? czcams.com/video/Lcx0eq-S-eY/video.html - I cannot tell you the exact correlation of the color of that logo, but the style of it definitely makes a difference. In other words, before 1989, logo was in all capital letters “ALLEN EDMONDS” in Times New Roman font. 1989-2016 or so the logo was “Allen Edmonds” with only the first letter capitalized. They added on a badge in 2016, and in 2018 the logo Adjer again change to all caps again and what I would call “military font”. Older AEs (up until approximately 2000’s?) have a date code - make sure you check out the comment section of the video too.
@@CobblerBob Of course, I have watched them all.
Bob,
Great breakdown of the various shoe constructions.
With the Blake stitch shoe, not only is the actual outsole very thin as you do a great job showing @ 4:40. As the consumer, you do not even get the full thickness in wear, because as soon as you are 2mm into the outsole, the stitching breaks and the entire sole unravels like a potato sack and comes falling & flapping off. This doesn’t happen as readily with Goodyear welted shoes, as you know and clearly show in your example shoe.
Anyone paying more than say $75 for Blake stitch shoe , in my opinion, is not getting good value for coin...
Thanks Al! I'm sorry for missing your comment!! I know you're already in the comments of my videos that haven't even come out yet.
Hello. I have a question can a cobbler make shoe smaller
JLBRIXYPLAYZ - I’m honestly not sure, but check out “Bespoke Addict The Brighton Gentleman”:
czcams.com/video/3j5jUVK4FGU/video.html
I found the best way to determine If a pair of shoes are goodyear welted or not is simply to hold them and measure the weight. As a pair of goodyear welted are definitely heavier and more robust.
🤔 wow, you’re right, I never thought of that! 👊🏼
@@CobblerBob 😁🤝
I found that some higher end shoe makers don't explicitly state Blake stitch or Goodyear welting. You either have to research the shoe/boot or examine the pictures closely.
Snib2987 - some English makers don’t state in the actual shoe ad that it’s Goodyear welted, but elsewhere on their website they state that all of their shoes are Goodyear welted. True, it can be tricky.
17:36 ... funny that Florsheim markets a derby as an oxford.
Did you pick up those Hanovers?
No, they were cool though.
Cleveland is midwest?
B. Tome - yes, Ohio is technically the easternmost “Midwest” state.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States
Robert, how do you sanitize and deodorize a thrift-find shoe before wearing them?
Dennis OConnor - I keep a spray bottle filled with 50% isopropyl alcohol and 50% water, and squirt it inside the shoes. There’s different ways to do it, other people use sanitizing wipes, but I prefer NOT to wipe out the inside of the shoe, and just let the alcohol sit on there and evaporate because I don’t want to wipe off any inked on on logos. FYI, in picking up several hundred pairs of shoes, I’ve NEVER found one that had any odor! Odor comes from bacteria, and bacteria needs moisture to grow. Generally all the shoes you’ll find thrifting are bone dry. Once in a while I will see one that’s moldy, but I avoid picking those up.
The Florsheim website was advertising what looks like Derby brogues as Oxfords. From what I can see on your screenshot they clearly are not Oxfords.
Yes, that's pretty common for shoe companies to call a Derby an Oxford or vice versa.
Could you resole such a shoe with a real Blake stitch? Provided you could remove the old bonded sole.
Yes, Blake stitched shoes can be resoled. In my latest released video, you'll see me do just that at a local Cobbler's shop and get to see the Blake/McKay machine on a pair of Florsheim double monk strap shoes! It's got a "horn" that goes into the shoe to complete the stitch. The main disadvantage to resoling a Blake shoe is every time you do, you put another set of holes in the insole.
I have two pairs of Cole Hann. Thought i bought good shoes. Nope, fake stitching. Wish I had seen this video earlier. At least I won't make the same mistake again...
You have a striking resemble IMO to Louis Lepke
Cola Haan is not making any stitching. All of Cole Haan shoes is gluted, but they sell at a high price, dont know what they pointing to ?
I'm not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing? The tan Cole Haans in the video I did say I was pretty certain the stitching is false. I think we're saying the same thing.
Speaking of synthetic leather:
“Avoid it like the plague”. ~R.Powers
Laughed out loud...
LOL, I'm happy to edutain!
Bob , it’s something else @ 6:30-7:00 that Johnston Murphy (among others) go through all the trouble to fake stitch the sole and fake stitch the welt to the upper , only to glue the two together? Why not just save alot of glue and stitch the damn sole on?? Mind boggling.
Thanks! A lot of once great brands are meh quality nowadays. Bringing their production overseas and skipping important things to cut costs. Shame.
People are still buying by brand names...getting so hard to find a good quality pair of shoes...bought Nunn Bush...junk...bought AE Belgians...junk...afraid to buy JM...afraid to buy anything made in China or India....and trying to buy from eBay pics....frightening.
Seller on eBay insisted to me that some retailers are describing their corrected grain as "calfskin".
Actually I have a pair I don't trust, they're Italian. Make: Campanile. Small factory.
But please give us some recommendations to buy good shoes without breaking the bank
This video is so depressing. I hope that American manufacturing comes back and that we just start paying more for higher quality. I'm a low income person and I try to buy as much "made in America" as possible. It's getting harder and harder to find. My favorite pair of boots are Redwings made in Minnesota and bought at the factory and I've had them for 18 years.
I feel ya’. Sorry man, my intent wasn’t to bring you down!
:)
Just saved me from buying a pair of J & M off ebay
shoe companies are getting greedier each year!
That's one way to view it. Or the way I see it, their values are changing, and in general, for most consumers low initial price is more important than long term quality.
@@CobblerBob where I live (Brazil) there are many shoe companies and I don't see quality getting better, but the prices are, too high for the quality. The best you can get for an expensive price are Blake stitched shoes, not even one company that does make any Goodyear welted shoes, unless you import them! As for you in US, can get very good quality at reasonable prices.
Maybe call it a ‘false’ stitch. It’s not fake because it IS a stitch, just not a ‘true’ stitch that does the job of holding something together.. just a thought?
Great videos, I am really enjoying them.
Hi Bob, I was wondering if you knew what to look for in a pair of vintage Cole Haan loafers? I am currently considering a pair with a model number of 29162. I can't find any information on them. There is a four digit number underneath this: 1352. Any idea what I might be looking at or if they might be made in the USA? There are about 20 nails/tacks in the heel of each and the leather soles seem handsewn. I just can't find any info on these...
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever had a pair of Cole Haan. I don’t avoid them, but I’ve just never come across a pair worth thrifting. I really know nothing about them.
@@CobblerBob Me, too. Thanks for responding though!
Huh.... Well that's disheartening. I thought I found the perfect boots, some Fluchos Terrys, but it doesn't say "goodyear welt" on the official page, and I can't see the stitches on the bottom of the shoe since they're covered in rubber. This is indeed very suspect, so I'm asking the company directly about it before I buy.
I'm glad you're able to make a better choice!
@@CobblerBob Update: While the stitches on the outside of the boots were just decorative, the soles ARE stitched on the bottom, around the front area. Plus, since they're the only boots I tried that didn't crush my feet like a vice, and they were rather inexpensive, I decided I'd get them anyway. if nothing else, they can be a "practice" boot!