Your V3 recipe is my go to since you did that review and the only thing I was left wanting was for you to give the Negotiator a try! Thanks! By the way, Aramse Coffee recently made a video on the negotiator as well and I find their method of using the negotiator easier than having to fold and hold the pleats in place. After folding the filter twice like you did, then use the negotiator to slowly push the filter into the V3 while slowly turning clockwise and the pleats will automatically start forming.
I think there is a better explanation for longer brew times with less bypass than "circulating air flow". It does not make much sense too me that there is air flow through the sides of a kalita filter for example. I think a better explanation is, that the water that is bypassing contributes to a higher flow of water in general and therefore a faster draw down.
It really is ! I love using this thing to form perfect little filters with chemex papers. They are practically as good as the Sibarist ones but far healthier for my wallet 😅. Plus you can reduce the waster and make 4 filters out of one paper pretty quickly.
Interesting, so you use Chemex filters to fold for the Orea? That’s interesting. I haven’t touched a Chemex in awhile, but the filters are pretty thick if I recall. I’ll have to give it a go.
I've also been using chemex filters with the negotiator and love the high clarity results. Even the 3cup filters fit very well once you figure out the folding technique, with just a little part to cut off after folding.
@@Sprometheus would be curious to hear why you don't use chemex/what you don't like about it vs other drippers. I had noticed you don't really have any videos on them and it is a classic, simple, and pretty well liked brew method 🤷♂
I use this every day. Definitely works really well. I personally don't bother pleating it, but rather just fold the cross and the push it into the orea gently. I rarely have issues and it takes less time! I've always wondered whether to use the rough side or the smooth side. Now I now - thanks!
I pair the negotiator and Orea V3 with a melodrip for a really nice cup! I pour 60g pulses up to my desired brew weight, letting the slurry come close to the bed between pours.
Your Orea recipe has knocked all the other pour overs I own out of rotation, and that's with kalita wave filters! It just wins for taste AND texture. Curious to try this out.
You can also use the negotiator with a kalita filter to smooth out a lot of the ruffles/pleats and it leads to really interesting results in the cup. I’ve found myself needing to do that a lot when I run out of the standard orea negotiator filters 😅
@@Sprometheus I just kind of smoosh the negotiator down into the filter while the filter is in the brewer and a lot of the pleats smooth out or fold over 🤙
This is what I do too. I usually just lightly position the negotiator in the filter and then quickly press all the way in. It flattens all the waves uniformly. I then pull the negotiator out a little and wet the filter then press again to seal the folds.
****ADVICE PLEASE **** ● when I use the Kalita wave filters, GOOD COFFEE . ● When I use Sibarist filters, good coffee. GOOD coffee. ● When I use the orea filters BAD coffee. **** W H Y **** ????
That's what I do as well. I position the kalita filter in the orea, I wet the filter, then I insert the negotiator and twist it as I do so the waves flatten nicely. This has 2 big advantages: 1) it's an awful lot easier than the folding in this video, 2) I don't need to buy and store yet another type of filter
Issue with the v60 cone filters is when you fold you also 4X the paper at the base and that will impede the bed and draw down… ruffle filters / 185 etc work well and keep 1 layer of paper at the base
I've noticed that it tames down a lot of the acidity in the cup so I only use it when I have really light roasted coffees on hand. I can't say it makes a better cup but it is different for sure.
Yeah I can see that. The water spends more time with the grinds generally whip can result in more of an semi-immersion style brew that minimizes acidity. I’d say better is a relative term really, coffee is such a subjective thing, but its a great tool to have on hand and really expands the Orea, and other flat bottom drippers abilities.
That's a neat little tool. I just bought a hario switch so it will be a while before I will try a flat bottom brewer. I love that they made it open source. I agree too many things are behind a wall of greed. I look forward to future coffee innovations.
Someone made a 3d printed one for the fellow Stagg also. Called the fellow Smoosher. Works great for that brewer and has little holes to allow you to wet the filter with the Smoosher in the Stagg.
@@Sprometheus it is nice, but you can do something similar with the negotiator by just holding the orea with filter and negotiator inserted upside down, then wetting from beneath. I do it with warm water cos hot might be an issue with the plastic
If you didn't already own the Orea, would you buy it again? Or would you just get a no bypass brewer like the tricolate and avoid the paper folding fuss?
I've been using Cafec V60 filters with my April brewer for a long time. Just fold the right way, takes a minute before my water boils. Much better experience compared to frilly filters, which suck.
It's interesting how much the draw down time increases when I use negotiated Sibarist papers vs Kalita Wave paper. With 26 clicks on the Comandante, I get a ~2:30-3:00 draw down time with the Wave filter. Exact same coffee and grind size can take as long as 12 minutes with negotiated Sibarist papers. Way too long. While the cups taste great, they also taste great with the Wave filter. I'd rather have my coffee sooner! Is this increase in draw down time typical with no bypass filters?
anyone got a good recipe for double cup? I've been using orea papers with a 30/500. Start at a 90g pour for 1-2 min bloom and a slow single low agitation pour for the rest. Takes about 5 min on a medium grind.
I always wondered about bypass with my V60. It always seemed like most of the water goes through the filter walls and not through the coffee bed. I need to try this.
With the orea, I get stalling pretty frequently when pressing down firmly with the negotiator. No such issues with the Stagg X, probably because the fit isn't perfect.
I have used the negotiator with the Kalita 185s. It seems to do fine but I can’t get past the draw down times. I’ve even tried upping the coarseness to French press levels and still draw times are 5+ minutes using light roast coffee. 😖
I see you used it with the melitta/moccamaster filters, how did it work? I'm thinking on getting a negotiator for a while, as i use a clever dripper as well, to save some money using same type of filters for both brewers, but I'm not sure if it will be worthwhile
I use an oragami with the Kaliya wave filters its a great cup. Its hard gor me to think it could get better but anything is worth a try.😂😂 tthanks for the video one horse pony soldier
I was considering buying the Orea just last night but still wasn’t sure. Is there any noticeable difference in taste when using a kalita vs a negotiated paper? Also would you say you prefer brewing with a negotiated filter or a kalita in terms of ease.
I don't like folding expirience. My perfect origami mind requires accuracy and with that tool isn't possible to fold it as I want :p but it’s just workflow. With the rest, the final results in a cup I mean, I’m really happy. I’m using no bypass filters especially to brew special fast coffees as it’s hard to brew that in kalita filters and it’s great.
I found the V60 filters came across pretty well, with a good amount of balance and body. They didn’t massively increase the brew time either, I generally landed around 2:30 and usually averaged around 25% extraction.
Interesting. I found them to be the best overall middle ground of all the filters I tried. What are you grinding on? My first instinct would be it’s creating a lot of fines.
It’s actually an offshoot of the Eureka, it’s a Lucca Atom 75. A lot of internals and performance are the same, but has some extra features like a digital dial in assist. Got a review coming for that soon.
Ooo that's nice and fancy, can't wait to see the review. Given the internals are similar it would also mostly apply taste wise on the eureka i hope, as you can't get de lucca here in europe
Once your in coffee long enough you will realize that when you hear words like “game changer” or “ultimate recipe” you should run the other way! If only coffee was so binary😂. There is no game changer dripper,recipe,coffee, grinder, water….. if you just want someone to tell you what’s good.. then go for it but all you will ever get is a subjective opinion. If you really want great coffee and something “game changer “ then gain coffee knowledge, as much as you can and your brews will just get better and better!
Nice vid @sprometheus, I was just wondering where can I find the link to the 3d printer render, so I can make myself one negotiator😊 does anybody have that link?
Your V3 recipe is my go to since you did that review and the only thing I was left wanting was for you to give the Negotiator a try! Thanks! By the way, Aramse Coffee recently made a video on the negotiator as well and I find their method of using the negotiator easier than having to fold and hold the pleats in place. After folding the filter twice like you did, then use the negotiator to slowly push the filter into the V3 while slowly turning clockwise and the pleats will automatically start forming.
I think there is a better explanation for longer brew times with less bypass than "circulating air flow". It does not make much sense too me that there is air flow through the sides of a kalita filter for example.
I think a better explanation is, that the water that is bypassing contributes to a higher flow of water in general and therefore a faster draw down.
Apparently I've been living under a rock - First time I've heard of the Orea. Must get me one. Wonderfully educational video. Thank you very much!
It really is ! I love using this thing to form perfect little filters with chemex papers. They are practically as good as the Sibarist ones but far healthier for my wallet 😅. Plus you can reduce the waster and make 4 filters out of one paper pretty quickly.
Interesting, so you use Chemex filters to fold for the Orea? That’s interesting. I haven’t touched a Chemex in awhile, but the filters are pretty thick if I recall. I’ll have to give it a go.
I've also been using chemex filters with the negotiator and love the high clarity results. Even the 3cup filters fit very well once you figure out the folding technique, with just a little part to cut off after folding.
@@Sprometheus you can cut a large square chemex filter into quarters, so it's the perfect size. And 400 filters for 15 bucks is pretty good value.
@@Sprometheus would be curious to hear why you don't use chemex/what you don't like about it vs other drippers. I had noticed you don't really have any videos on them and it is a classic, simple, and pretty well liked brew method 🤷♂
I use this every day. Definitely works really well. I personally don't bother pleating it, but rather just fold the cross and the push it into the orea gently. I rarely have issues and it takes less time!
I've always wondered whether to use the rough side or the smooth side. Now I now - thanks!
I pair the negotiator and Orea V3 with a melodrip for a really nice cup! I pour 60g pulses up to my desired brew weight, letting the slurry come close to the bed between pours.
Your Orea recipe has knocked all the other pour overs I own out of rotation, and that's with kalita wave filters! It just wins for taste AND texture. Curious to try this out.
You can also use the negotiator with a kalita filter to smooth out a lot of the ruffles/pleats and it leads to really interesting results in the cup. I’ve found myself needing to do that a lot when I run out of the standard orea negotiator filters 😅
Interesting. I haven’t tried that myself, but I’ll give it a go. Definitely seems like a lot of folding haha
@@Sprometheus I just kind of smoosh the negotiator down into the filter while the filter is in the brewer and a lot of the pleats smooth out or fold over 🤙
This is what I do too. I usually just lightly position the negotiator in the filter and then quickly press all the way in. It flattens all the waves uniformly. I then pull the negotiator out a little and wet the filter then press again to seal the folds.
****ADVICE PLEASE ****
● when I use the Kalita wave filters, GOOD COFFEE .
● When I use Sibarist filters, good coffee. GOOD coffee.
● When I use the orea filters BAD coffee.
**** W H Y ****
????
That's what I do as well. I position the kalita filter in the orea, I wet the filter, then I insert the negotiator and twist it as I do so the waves flatten nicely. This has 2 big advantages: 1) it's an awful lot easier than the folding in this video, 2) I don't need to buy and store yet another type of filter
"The Negotiator" ...have coffee filters finally met their match?
Coming to a theater near you
If it’s straight to HBO I’d watch that.
Issue with the v60 cone filters is when you fold you also 4X the paper at the base and that will impede the bed and draw down… ruffle filters / 185 etc work well and keep 1 layer of paper at the base
I've noticed that it tames down a lot of the acidity in the cup so I only use it when I have really light roasted coffees on hand. I can't say it makes a better cup but it is different for sure.
Yeah I can see that. The water spends more time with the grinds generally whip can result in more of an semi-immersion style brew that minimizes acidity. I’d say better is a relative term really, coffee is such a subjective thing, but its a great tool to have on hand and really expands the Orea, and other flat bottom drippers abilities.
That's a neat little tool. I just bought a hario switch so it will be a while before I will try a flat bottom brewer. I love that they made it open source. I agree too many things are behind a wall of greed. I look forward to future coffee innovations.
Someone made a 3d printed one for the fellow Stagg also. Called the fellow Smoosher. Works great for that brewer and has little holes to allow you to wet the filter with the Smoosher in the Stagg.
That’s a solid update in my opinion. I think being able to rinse the filter with it in place would be next level.
@@Sprometheus it is nice, but you can do something similar with the negotiator by just holding the orea with filter and negotiator inserted upside down, then wetting from beneath. I do it with warm water cos hot might be an issue with the plastic
If you didn't already own the Orea, would you buy it again? Or would you just get a no bypass brewer like the tricolate and avoid the paper folding fuss?
Thank you my friend.
Of course! Cheers!
I think it’s useful and cool! Thanks for a very informative video! I love that it brings my 155 Kalita to the new level 💯
I use my negotiator to flatten an already wet Kalita paper in the Orea V3
I've been using Cafec V60 filters with my April brewer for a long time. Just fold the right way, takes a minute before my water boils.
Much better experience compared to frilly filters, which suck.
It's interesting how much the draw down time increases when I use negotiated Sibarist papers vs Kalita Wave paper. With 26 clicks on the Comandante, I get a ~2:30-3:00 draw down time with the Wave filter. Exact same coffee and grind size can take as long as 12 minutes with negotiated Sibarist papers. Way too long. While the cups taste great, they also taste great with the Wave filter. I'd rather have my coffee sooner! Is this increase in draw down time typical with no bypass filters?
I used Kalita wave paper for the orea dripper before but it’s not fit size,then using this negotiatior with original orea paper, perfect
anyone got a good recipe for double cup? I've been using orea papers with a 30/500. Start at a 90g pour for 1-2 min bloom and a slow single low agitation pour for the rest. Takes about 5 min on a medium grind.
That's a single cup in my household
@@luke9822 for sure me too
I always wondered about bypass with my V60. It always seemed like most of the water goes through the filter walls and not through the coffee bed. I need to try this.
Would this tool work with the kalita 185? I've never seen one but I'm assuming it's a completely different geometry?
With the orea, I get stalling pretty frequently when pressing down firmly with the negotiator. No such issues with the Stagg X, probably because the fit isn't perfect.
Does it juice lemons, too? I want one made out of wood.
Would the orea with the orea filters and using rhe negotiator produce a faster drawdown than with a v60 with the cafec Arabica filters?
I have used the negotiator with the Kalita 185s. It seems to do fine but I can’t get past the draw down times. I’ve even tried upping the coarseness to French press levels and still draw times are 5+ minutes using light roast coffee. 😖
I see you used it with the melitta/moccamaster filters, how did it work?
I'm thinking on getting a negotiator for a while, as i use a clever dripper as well, to save some money using same type of filters for both brewers, but I'm not sure if it will be worthwhile
I use an oragami with the Kaliya wave filters its a great cup. Its hard gor me to think it could get better but anything is worth a try.😂😂 tthanks for the video one horse pony soldier
I was considering buying the Orea just last night but still wasn’t sure. Is there any noticeable difference in taste when using a kalita vs a negotiated paper? Also would you say you prefer brewing with a negotiated filter or a kalita in terms of ease.
I certainly like mine...
Interesting, I guess, but I don't see myself giving up my Hario Switch anytime soon.
I would love to hear your opinion of Moka Pot
fav dripper
I was about to order a V3 and read about the coming soon V4. Have you had a chance to get a V4 to test ?
Thank you
You’re welcome my friend. Thanks for watching.
I don't like folding expirience. My perfect origami mind requires accuracy and with that tool isn't possible to fold it as I want :p but it’s just workflow. With the rest, the final results in a cup I mean, I’m really happy. I’m using no bypass filters especially to brew special fast coffees as it’s hard to brew that in kalita filters and it’s great.
How was it with the V60 filters? And nice little vid as always!
I found the V60 filters came across pretty well, with a good amount of balance and body. They didn’t massively increase the brew time either, I generally landed around 2:30 and usually averaged around 25% extraction.
@@Sprometheus Ill have to give this a try, V60s are usually all I can find here with out ordering online.
With which recipe and filter could you achieve the 27% EY?
Can't seem to get good brews with the negotiated Orea papers, always clogs the brew. Even tho coffee were ground coarser 🥵 always over extract
Interesting. I found them to be the best overall middle ground of all the filters I tried. What are you grinding on? My first instinct would be it’s creating a lot of fines.
I’ve ground down to 5 on my df64 and never ever choked my orea…
And no it wasn’t tasty at 5 😊
It seems the original V3 is no longer in production and they are only selling the V3 "Basalt" version, which is 50% more expensive.
☕☕☕
Love Is Important ❤️
Indeed my friend, have a nice weekend.
But why is it so hard to get an Orea dripper? And they don't sell the drippers and bases as sets? 😕
Rogue wave coffee roasters had them recently
Is that a eureka atom in the background?
It’s actually an offshoot of the Eureka, it’s a Lucca Atom 75. A lot of internals and performance are the same, but has some extra features like a digital dial in assist. Got a review coming for that soon.
Ooo that's nice and fancy, can't wait to see the review. Given the internals are similar it would also mostly apply taste wise on the eureka i hope, as you can't get de lucca here in europe
stay tuned for the big boy and the orea mk3 😉 Dont put it in the dishwasher, it will crack 😂
Once your in coffee long enough you will realize that when you hear words like “game changer” or “ultimate recipe” you should run the other way! If only coffee was so binary😂. There is no game changer dripper,recipe,coffee, grinder, water….. if you just want someone to tell you what’s good.. then go for it but all you will ever get is a subjective opinion. If you really want great coffee and something “game changer “ then gain coffee knowledge, as much as you can and your brews will just get better and better!
You seem like a lot of fun at parties.
@@Sprometheus If spittin truths is your thing then right on! We don't have to like something in order for it to still be the truth.
Not into origami and just want fantastic coffee? Use a French press. Problem solved. Less waste too 👍
Nice vid @sprometheus, I was just wondering where can I find the link to the 3d printer render, so I can make myself one negotiator😊 does anybody have that link?
Hey. If you click the Orea link in the description the link to the render file is on their item page
@@Sprometheus thank you so much!!!