I Tested Pouring Molten Aluminum in Wood
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- čas přidán 18. 03. 2023
- As promised, I tested pouring molten aluminum in wood and things got a bit squirrelly.
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#viral #TikTok #trends - Jak na to + styl
I'm a metallurgist that has poured aluminium. A couple of things that I noticed... The aluminium you were given is wrought aluminium, not for casting. Casting aluminium, like cylinder heads and cast pistons flow a lot better. Secondly, it might melt at 1200°F but you should take it to 1400, flows better. Thirdly, yes, tiktok guy did a big pour. The first pour you did, starts to solidify right away because everything around it is relatively cold. Worse if a metal plate is used as a backer, really sucks the heat out. You'd have to find a way to use a sand base as it's more insulating than a steel plate. As the layer of poured aluminium gets thicker, it acts as a bigger and bigger heat sink. You won't fuse any of the layers together very well at all. That should have been one large, single pour. So, you need a much bigger furnace with bigger crucibles or just more of them and a lot of guys pouring at the same time. Not sure what to do about your warping wood, though. Still an entertaining video.
damn Andy, i shouldve called you before ! haha thank you
As a woodworker, I can shed some light on the warping wood. The reason the wood warped was most likely due to trapped moisture being heated unevenly. There were likely pockets of moisture in the wood, and it flash dried unevenly. The steam can warp the wood as it tries forcing itself out of the grain, which is why drying is usually done very slowly in a very humidity controlled environment.
Thanks for sharing you guys! So interesting!!!
I would not have used segmented rebar. I would have used all-thread the entire span, including the gap; it would hold the aluminum better "threads" and bound the two sections of wood together and prevented uneven warping.
How about something that melts around lead temperature that isn't lead, gallium would be really bad though
To anybody thinking about melting aluminum, DO NOT keep buckets of water on standby. Molten aluminum and water equals explosion
I disagree with that. When you inevitably burn yourself by touching something you don't expect to be hot, you want a bucket of water within a few metres of the furnace.
You are correct, liquid nitrogen is what you'd want to cool down molten aluminum quickly and safely, you don't need much but best to keep a thermace full in case you need to douse the molten aluminium for any reason.
I don't think they were keeping the water for the aluminum but rather if some got onto someone's clothing, shoes, etc.
@@zafarsyed6437 nothing wrong with using water to cool down the aluminium, molten or not.
@abowden5079 Yeah, I agree. I was thinking the water was more for the people's safety, etc.
I would think they would use the fire extinguishers in case something actually caught on fire.
Honestly, think you should partner with someone like Alec Steele and give this another run. Biggest challenge here was the scale of molten metal and the hobby smelter that was used. In short, try again please!!!
YES PLEASE!!!! Alec Steele would probably jump at the chance to do something like this as he has done some other insanely “out there” collabs before
Yes!
Alec is in a different country now. Also he doesn't really do smelting/metal casting.
Alex doesn't really do smelting or casting, but he does more of it than this scrapple fed redneck... And I swear I mean that in the nicest way possible
Why?? This thing can never work as wood burns at far lower temps than melt aluminum. He knew before he started it was a hoax.
I respect that you had the dedication to put finish on your polished turd.
You should get a hold of the guy who did it and go see how he does it in person. He's definitely doing something that is making it work.
Either an alloy of alum that helps keep a lower temp, or it could always be pewter. He could also have treated to wood, however most finishes would burn, and wetting it would cause bubbles and make the table damp
@@Volt64boltIt has to be pewter.
@@MCsCreations I haven’t actually seen the original so I can’t be certain
@@Volt64bolt Not to mention explosive...As in steam explosion.. But yeah i'm guessing fire retardant to prevent excessive burning, having tie down rods that connect the peaces mechanically locking the cast in place and later stage some thick resin probably to solidify everything. I have seen this being done and usually its been larger volume poured at the time. This combination is not natural hence why its so cool when you get it working, just takes effort to find out the right combination so John throwing the towel is wrong move when he wont get it working as wood worker, when this is more of handyman territory.
@@Hellsong89 ye, steam explosions are deadly. But if you only slightly dampen the wood then it wouldn’t be a cause for concern that’s why I didn’t mention it. The only other method for this sorta stuff is to scan the wood and machine an inverse like with inlays
Always Fun to watch First Time Casters....😀👍
Did they use wrong alloy?
Teach them sensei?
It really is. I can only imagine how much fun it was to watch me when I started. Just taught a friend today and I forgot how easy it was to overpour molds when first starting. All in all, he did really well.
@@marckelley1485 Nope, just the learning curve is amusing. We've all been there, and it is amusing to watch others starting out because it's also a humbling reminder of how we were that inexperienced at one point.
@@blackguitarmaker1925 Experience is the best teacher after you have the basics down.
I think an epoxy pour with aluminum dust mixed In Would give a similar look. Great effort!
I came here to say just that haha oops. Shoulda looked at the comments first lolol
fancy JB weld lol
YEAH MAKE A TABLE WITH JB WELD I mean I never tried to POLISH JB weld before it might get shiny!
It would work. The only thing that makes epoxy+metal difficult is that the metal will sink to the bottom of the epoxy as it cures.
You'd have to pour it upside down to get the effect you're wanting.
Called cold casting
Welders use a aluminum bondo. Use that and be done with it
Another idea if y’all want to try this again is to use tin instead of aluminum.. it has a much lower melting point so it won’t burn the wood as much and you could melt it faster so the layers would be better combined
using an alloy of tin and bismuth can bring the melting point below 300F (still higher than steam production but there should be a lot less steam made, and almost no charring.)
@@maciejsimm2342 well its like 4x lower temperature them aluminum, for one you need furnace for other cast iron pan and gas burner. Its order lead or pewter/tin both can feed in planer and the metal is soft so it dont damage blades. Also it have lower surface tension so the pour look more like in the original video.
I used solder on a redwood table I made a few years back...sanded almost as easy as the wood
i was thinking here as well.. it very well could be like tin... or even lead that is pollished both would be low enough to do on wood with out something catching on fire
Except the thing with tin is that it can rust and aluminum will not. If it's a dinner table most people don't want to eat off of rust.
One of the problems you were having is that as the AL hit the wood, it created a lot of steam and that would cause voids and other issues, Wouldn´t it have been better to pre-char the wood? Also, like others have mentioned, you would have to have a lot bigger pours.
as the other commenters mentioned - i think there's a "trick" (or a few) to this pour going well - however, if you do try this again with a deeper dive into the "how"; when you're polishing metal you need to go WAY higher than 400 grit. I get that 400 grit for wood is polishing level but for metal you can go up to 2000/3000 and then a polishing compound on top (jewellers rouge for example) which is about.. 5000 to 6000 grit if you were comparing to sandpaper. Otherwise it will just look like you're "polishing a turd" with 400 grit paper. Just ask Alec Steele and Will Stelter about hand sanding 🤣
I guess the "biggest" tricks are these two:
1) using the rebar to actual bond both planks together - here they used the rebar only for the metal to have something to bond to - but they did not used it connect the two planks together
2) pouring in way largers badges: than couple 100ml kiln is just way too small - when you have such a volume to fill best way would be to do it in just one go with enough molten metal to overfill to have enough to grind away to get rid of the surface burns
I don't doubt the original - but here they just thought "ok, give it a small version try" instead of scaling it properly - kinda like mythbusters: "when something doesn't blow up we scale the stuff until it does go boom"
but I agree with you: there's just way more into the "how to do it properly" rather than the question "is it fake?"
I'm pretty sure he meant that the end result wasn't going to look much better if he kept going with higher grits, not that he thought metal didn't need more sanding than wood.
I think a way better way to do this that doesn't involve having to buy a big smelter and finding a ton of aluminum is using aluminum powder mixed into resin and then pouring that into a river table design. You could even burn the inside of the river first to make it look like it was made with molten aluminum.
That's a very cool idea. I've seen someone use super glue and brass filings for wood project inlays. After its sanded and polished it looks like solid brass.
I believe that clip your talking about was a much more involved process.
1. Reo bar between both sides of the wood to hold it together.
2. Much thicker steel base but was also lined with clay so aluminium wouldn't wander under the wood
3. Thick steel ends screwed to the wood and also edges done with foundry clay
4. Pour in MUCH bigger batches to fill it faster
5. I believe he milled a TON of material off the top to get it level
Have seen it done a couple of times and the secret seems to be the foundry clay reo bar connecting dowels.
Also if you make walls out of foundry clay along the top sides,it stops the rest of the top catching fire 🔥
This was really cool to see the trial and error. Even though it wasn’t perfect, it was still super interesting to watch the process.
Not mercury. Memetic Poly-Alloy. Basically, metal nanotech that allowed the T-1000 to change shape and color.
someoene caught it haha yes!
Love the idea! Part of the issue might have been was if you were using different alloies of aluminum causing adhesion issues also. I do like some of the ideas of using aluminum dust I'd resin to get a stardust look around all pockets. It would have made it look like a nebula.
Love the fact that your not afraid to try anything just to see if it would work!
Hope these videos inspire many young woodworkers out there! Keep it up!
I love how this community comes to the comments with their expertise and suggestions. It adds a lot to the experience. ❤
If you want to try this again with molten aluminum (instead of the Al/CA or Al/epoxy suggestions), consider flooding the area with argon gas the way MIG/TIG welders do.
Carbon dioxide would be just as effective at protecting the wood from oxidation. Even if it doesn't offer much protection to the aluminium. And is a lot cheaper than argon.
Cam at blacktail studios did an epoxy/brass pour. I think if you took your polished turd (which honestly awesome to see you guys do) and did the brass epoxy to fill in/ finish - it would be a neat finished product
Love that you have the stones to try stuff like this. Very fun to watch.
I was thinking along the lines of creating a silicone mold of the inside "river" shape, then using that to create a concrete mold for the aluminum pour. Surprised this worked as smoothly as it did, and while not a perfectly clean result like the source video, I think it deserves more respect than a "polished turd."
Regardless, it was entertaining to watch and see your approach!
Probably used pewter or indium. Wood variety helps too, hickory will hold up to heat better
Gallium!
You can just melt and pour an alloy called "Cerrosafe". Melts below the boiling point of water. You can also try Babbitt metal or 50/50 solder which are easy to get and melt lower than 500 degrees. The trick would be to pour it and cool it quickly to limit the char. Babbitt #1 is available and works well, but it's pretty pricey. You can reduce the cost by filling the void mostly with steel. The steel will bond with the Babbitt well and be suspended in the middle, so it won't rust. Make sure to pour enough on top to reduce the effects of shrinkage.
You can just pre char the inside edges first, and use something like zamak instead, still has a lower melting temp in the 700s, and do larger pours at once.
I really look forward to watching your videos, when I'm eating breakfast on Sunday morning! All your dedication and squirrelieness!!!😊
Awesome effort and thanks for sharing all the highs and the lows.
"Cool" concept. Love your content John. Always puts a smile on my face!! Go Steelers!!!!
I've used solder for some small cracks, worked pretty well.
He sounded like the lego person who yelled, "HEY!" LOL
I wonder if something like plumbing solder would have worked better than aluminum. It has a lower melting temperature but would look relatively the same. Would definitely be more expensive. Just a thought.
I was thinking pewter as it can be bought in large quantities and can be melted at a relatively close temperature to woods combustion point and as long as you put a coat of epoxy on top then you don’t have to worry about lead poisoning
@@benben9794 you can also get lead free pewter, although that is mostly just tin
plumbing solder is a lot like electronics solder in many ways. I've never melted large amounts of plumbing solder but I have done electric solder. I would imagine that plumbing solder would have the same problem that electronics solder would. It cools too quickly and globs up. Once one layer is cooled it doesn't like to re-melt easily. It needs something like rosin to make it melt evenly again. I would imagine that plumbing solder would just pour in layers and would delaminate quite easily. Same problem that they were having with the aluminium.
Make your mold slightly hourglass shaped . This won't make the aluminum stick to the wood but it will prevent it from just popping straight up because now the aluminum is gripping the wood from top and bottom in that hourglass shape.
This is great Sunday morning viewing guys! Thanks for posting
I was so happy to see you actually did this. I would like to see you revisit this one in the future. You look to be on the right path maybe you just need access to a bigger furnace to melt more aluminum for a larger pour.
With how quickly aluminum cools, you would need a much larger smelter or several small ones (as was used, but like 9 more) running at the same time, making sure that you pour at the same time (within 90 seconds).
At least that's been my very limited and minimal experience seeing and assisting others do this very same thing a few years back.
Obviously it didn't come out the way you hoped, but I think the final product could make a nice coffee table top. Maybe with a piece of glass to eliminate the problems caused by the uneven surface.
Thanks John and the team for giving me and my dad something to talk and bond with after we both found this channel :D
Started watching your videos a few weeks ago and have been hooked on them, just had a funny moment at 6:33 where I started imagining your conversations without the background music you guys played and realized how funny and relevant it is.
Just picturing me explaining my silly plans to my buddies before we do them.
bro, i dont think he used aluminium XD zinc have melting temp at 419*C and looks identical as aluminium so you can try that. that way you will be able to prevent wood from ignition but you'll need to cool down zinc ASAP so pour fast and cool it even faster. IMO you can place aluminium at the bottom of the river whitch will act as a radiator.
I was thinking that but that guy in the tik tok would've struggled pouring it because zinc is do much heavier than aluminum. I've worked in both field and had to pour zinc ingots by hand and it sucked lol
Not to mention in the tiktok he showed you can see the dude throwing cans into his smelter
I'm only about halfway in, but I feel like in order to make this REALLY work you'd need a custom table, something made of high thermal conductive material, maybe watercooled so that instead of the heat dumping into the wood as fast and charring it, it gets dissipated out through the plate underneath. As well as drilling into each layer so it bonds together better when pouring
Nice try. You guys kept at it. Never gave up. That alone would be a reason to watch. The added banter makes it fun.
I am glad to come across this channel !
That actually came out pretty cool!
No, it didn’t…
You can't have seen the same thing as me then.
Actually Looks REALLY good if you stand back far enough in the dark
Not every aluminum is the same…with different levels of sn, zn, mg, etc you can change a lot. Or even create your own out of aluminum and tin to get the melting temps way lower. Wetting the wood and wetting the pours also gets the heat down faster, while the lower melting point allows a better bond of the pours themselves. So Yeah, I think it’s possible and if you go polish with wet sandpaper of the tripple digs, you can get it shiny. Possible yes, worth it…well…that’s in the eye of the beholder ^^
Wetting the wood would cause it to build and create steam pockets..
@@Volt64bolt wetting is different to soaking
Could have been no aluminum. Instead, zinc and/or tin as they have way lower melting and heat transmission, or a combination of the 3.
@@jamb312 yes, see first comment ;)
@@SuperVistaprint yes however the amount of water you would need to help prevent the burning would be enough to form steam pockets, and even a little moisture would still cause bubbles
Editing is nuts love the added funny clips propain one got me good
If you have a fire with molten metal do not use water to put out use your powder fire extinguisher if you put water onto molten metal will make an explosion and sent little bits of molten metal flying all over the place, make sure you skim off all the slag before each pour and if you want it to bond together better try to get the temp of each pour higher experienced aluminum smelter out of ky so if you have flown in a plane or been in the military or aerospace I have had a hand in making the aluminum used for it all
You think the buckets of water are for the metal. I bet it’s for ALL THE OTHER FLAMMABLE SHIT AROUND. Y’know, things like wood… rubber… people…
🤦🏻♂️
Some tik tok jerk wagon is going to try and make this out of pallet wood
😂😂😂
You know those face respirators don't work when you have a beard right?
Love that Chris is getting his Heisenberg on. Welcome to the Squad
Thank you for doing this. What a great video.
what about compressed air to cooling down the pieces? Nice video!!!
no
I do believe this is “The definition of a polished turd” Ah, I agree with you 100% John!
I think the 2 main imporovements to acheive the better result,
1 - More Aluminium per pour
2 - Milling/Machining further down. Even in the video it looks like a lot was milled down quite a bit more
Any of the pour areas need to 1) Go completely through the work piece. 2) Flare the top and bottom of the pour holes (lightly). 3) Fire harden the pour areas, top and bottom and middle. 4) ) Have a metal plate backing the pour zones. 5) Have a metal border sitting atop the work piece completely surrounding the pour areas - so you can put in more metal than flush. When you go to shave down the exterior - what's left behind will eventually be even with the work piece and permanently affixed in the piece because the metal is stuck in one side and out the other and can't come out of the work piece because the flared edges top and bottom function as plugs.
When you cast things you should add a “riser” that feeds the pour while it cools to minimize shrinkage. It’s basically a cylinder of aluminum that can drain into the poured area
That won't work with an open mould like this
@@ianboreham454 never thought of that. I was referencing sand casing which this is not. Didn’t think though the heat transfer difference which is what causes the shrinkage.
This is not smelting. Smelting is refining a metal from ore. You are melting only. Chris should've known that.
well, now i know haha .
Maybe Chris did know but just didn't correct him for the roast in the comments
@@John_Malecki Speaking of melting, you might want to get hold of an aluminum alloy _that's actually developed for casting_ rather than melt pieces of aluminum plate. All the 4-digit series aluminum, your 6061, 2024, 2618, 7075 and do on, are not well suited for casting. They remain too viscous to cast properly.
Instead, you'd be much better off with a grade that's meant/intended for casting. You have to get one of the *xxx.x* grades for better pouring.
Or, if you are sourcing at the scrap yard, only use cast aluminum scrap. No plate or bar.
Shut up Meg 😂
I just love your technical terminology!
"Cursbib...Crucib...Cersab... Whatever that is." Dude, you cracked me up! You are very entertaining. Thank you for keeping the boredom out of the video. It didn't turn out to your liking, but hey... I'm sure a lot of people appreciated the video because we also need to see it when things don't turn out perfectly.
Great content thanks for sharing
You fill in wood with metal that's a specific alloy. Melts at really low temperatures. It's called "Woodsmetal" super easy to remember and it's easy to work with. It melts at lower Temps than the wood burns so you will get absolutely zero charging. The metal will flow to the shape of the hole and usually wedges in but glue can be used as well as woods metal solidifies almost instantly
"Tiny Electric Smelter" was my nickname in college.
I appreciate this John!! You're the bestest!
loved the vision behind. mark of a true artist.
This was great for a first attempt. Definitely a proof of concept. Maybe next time try it with transparent aluminum?
That looks like a scrap chunk of the Demolition Ranch table. NEAT!
Love Your channel! Thank you for great entertainment. Shout out from Norway
I wonder if something like a tin/bismuth alloy (much lower melting point) would work better.
Thats a great experiment 👌👌👌
Like my grandfather- the woodworker, used to always say;'"LET US SPRAY!" & in the words of my cousin- the produce worker; " LETTUCE SPRAY!"
"The Big Smelter"....sounds like a great nickname
If you use dry ice it should prevent the wood from burning. Basically, put sides around the whole thing, place a block of dry ice, and the cold CO2 should prevent any flames! Just a thought
So 2 things, if you pre charred and cleaned the wood where it would be getting the metal poured into, that helps to seal the area. That method has been used for thousands of years to prevent rot and it helps make it more fire resistant. Also using that rain you had that day would have helped as well to keep the fire potential down. I haven't seen the video you were referring to on yours, but that is what I know about trying to reduce the wood from catching fire.
As a metal caster:
You needed a bigger furnace and crucibles.... So you could pour more at a time. Plus you should have had a slight angle to your mold so the pour would have naturally flowed downhill.
Another issue was the wood floating on the metal- so weigh down your 2 boards to eliminate that.
To really get a SMOOTH finish though... You have to do a SINGLE POUR!
There are some low melting temperature alloys that are used for casting. Those could help minimize the burning as well as give a better chance at the layers melting together better.
Try it with coolant. Maybe a garden lawn sprayer under the table when you pour, or a system of box section with water pumped through it?
I came to be entertained. You did not disappoint. Thank you.
I have that Gongyi furnace! It's great, actually, and I've done many aluminum melts with it and a couple of copper melts, too. I started with the 6kg furnace like they have and just recently bought the 12kg furnace. Love them. My daughter and I are going to be forging a copper or aluminum bronze sword with scrap wire I got from power cords from a decommission I did. Those furnaces are fun, but you really do need proper PPE like they have. Never tried pouring into wood, but now I kind of want to try it on a smaller scale than this.
"He was on 'Forged in Fire'." "That doesn't mean shit." I love you, Malecki.
Aluminum dust is crazy flammable. I never knew until I started a fire in my garage while doing some grinding haha.. I'm a hands on learner.
I’ll bet that first guy put rebar into both sides to hold it together. That may hold the aluminum pour and provide the structural integrity for a table
I’ve poured silver into a a 2x4 i chiseled out and got a 1 oz bar with some crazyyyy texturing from the wood grain burning out below it
The greatest part of this video is that you just tried it! Way to go! DD
John: "We're gonna suit up and safety everything
BigstackD: "I'm doing this in a t-shirt and running shoes"
Curious if you could use a piece of C-channel to eat up a majority of the area and give effectively a "skin" coat atop that would resemble the finished product, limit the size of the pour you'd need, and if reinforced properly to the wood would give strength.
Not sure if this idea is dead but might just need some refining.
ive never done an aluminum mold pour out of straight wood, but I HAVE done aluminum molds using grill liner surfaced coated to the wood. also, when setting the aluminum, your right that it bubbles, but you can use a steel spoon to kind of mix it and get the bubbles out so it compacts better. i have mine tack welded to a piece of rebar. i would recommend trying to get all the aluminum done in one go but thats a big ask. if your super determined, you can make an induction forge pretty easily out of some old welding equipment. you can basically just drop your raw aluminum thru it and it will liquify before your eyes!
That king of the hill cut got me 💀 subscribing cuz of it 😂
I don’t think I’ve laughed so hard in 5 years. Omg.
1) you can't get sparks from aluminum. 2) use a regular but cheap flattening bit, aluminum is soft enough to cut with regular woodworking power tools for the most part
Hank Hill propane reference made my day 😂
I recognize that furnace, it is a 5kg hobby furnace. For a project that size I would go with a 12kg furnace minimum, I made my 20kg aluminum furnace plus burner for less than $100 and have done thousands of melts with it. Pre char the wood with a propane torch, use refractory cement to fill gaps under and along the sides, make sure it is fully set and dry before the pour. Place the metal plate on top of a layer of kao wool, or raised on fire bricks to disapate heat quickly. Connect the two slabs together using the rebar as well, adds rigidity and will keep the aluminum in place at the same time.
You should have tried the same thing with tin instead of aluminum. Tin has a much lower melting point, which should mitigate burning and charring of the wood. And the look will be just like aluminum.
Very cool idea, but I guess it has quite a high barrier to entry!! Great content guys!
omgg i just watched the tiktok video where this was basically teased and now i can actually watch it
That's a solid first attempt.
"...this is the definition....of polishing a turd." Beer came out of my nose.
I have done this with tin and wood. The lower melting temperature of tin makes it fairly easy.
Probably pre treating the area with a non heat transfer paste, spray, or paint. Used in refrigeration when soldering near valves and delicate things so they don’t melt. Schtuff works. Keeps copper pipe cool while torch is on it!
BOAC, British overseas airways company, it s mnemonic for remembering which wood burns the quickest, Beech Oak Ash and Cherry will ignite as well as high resin pine. Some people on here say soak the wood prior, I would not, a aluminium steam explosion is not much fun. Foundry clay and foundry sand will stop the oxygen getting to the wood to burn, and I would personally char the live edge prior to pour. At least you had a go, that is all that matters
That looks nice better then i expected
Two thoughts:
1. Soak the wood so the aluminum has more time to cool before the wood starts burning, and
2. Maybe use a shielding gas like in welding to stop the wood from actually combusting which might again help to limit how much the wood chars away
Dunno if either would work but maybe?
That was what I was thinking. Get it all mighty wet. Although perhaps one could also preheat the interface between aluminum pours.
I do think I would take the table as is, and cover with a clear epoxy pour.
You never want moisture and molten metal. It will cause steam explosions that will send metal everywhere. Very big safety concern
@@The.Memes.hmmmm right, yeah maybe don’t soak it
I have been thinking about this aluminum and wood problem, and I believe you could make a sand mold from a silicone impression of the gap. Then pour the aluminum into the sand mold and mate it between the wood slabs. Use a low temperature torch to fill in the edges as if soldering.
Professionals always make it look easy lol
Ever thought about cutting your wood and using that as a template to make a positive to make a negative template to pour the aluminium into. Once you have the finished aluminium inserts fit these into the wood. If you want it to look finished use diagonal screw or bolt holes which are counter sunk so after fitting fill on top of the screw or bolt with a little more molten Aluminium. This way you wouldn’t have a molten metal contact but a solid fitment which can be milled flat and the polished. I know it may be difficult to understand but what you are doing is make the Ally into an insert to put into the wooden slots.
Good luck
12:42 feels like a reality show.