Let's Crack Zodiac - Episode 12 - Zodiac and Batman
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- The Riddler in the upcoming Batman movie is based on the Zodiac Killer.
This new episode of Let’s Crack Zodiac started as a quick look at how the new Riddler compares to Zodiac, but then turned into a deep dive into many topics:
* The Riddler in the real FBI case files
* Codebreaking tools
* Zodiac-like characters and connections in vintage comics, TV shows, and movies
* Codemaking and codebreaking in old comics, TV shows, and pulp fiction
* Classical cryptography, secret decoder wheels, and other vintage crypto toys
* The Mikado, and its connections to both Zodiac and Batman
* And Ovaltine. :)
There’s something here for everyone!
0:00 Intro
0:41 The new Riddler is the Zodiac Killer
2:23 Appearance of the Riddler in Zodiac FBI case files
2:58 Breaking the new Riddler's cipher
4:34 Codebreaking tools
7:12 The riddle's long history
8:42 The Riddler's short cipher vs Zodiac's short ciphers
9:03 More ciphers from the new Riddler
10:29 Zodiac connections in old Batman comics
14:03 "The Zodiac Crimes" in 1960s Batman TV show
15:42 Zodiac connections in "Charlie Chan at Treasure Island"
18:25 Zodiac connections in old non-Batman comics
20:05 Vintage Zodiac merchandise in the comics
20:27 Elements of the Zodiac case that appear in old comics
26:34 The Mikado's links to Zodiac and Batman
28:54 The Zodiac "Batman" watch
29:13 Looking for connections will make you lose your mind
29:29 Cryptography in vintage comics and Batman TV shows
35:05 Superhero fan clubs with code cards and secret decoder wheels
37:34 In those days, kids were very excited about secret codes, as Ralphie from Christmas Story demonstrates.
38:38 Vintage cryptography toys from old comics
41:19 Cryptography articles that appeared in old comics and detective stories
44:17 Thoughts and conclusions
MUSIC CREDITS
* Paulo Kalazzi - Hero’s Time
* uppbeat.io/t/paulo-kalazzi/he...
* License: SXMZCW0UPFV8ZUHA
* 1920s music • Royalty Free 1920s Mus...
* Roger Gabalda - Machinations
* uppbeat.io/t/roger-gabalda/ma...
* License: HBLXKWOTGPVQIAUJ
* Yeti Music - Casa Vega
* uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/casa-...
* License: YA1YIXQCLPHL3HEE
* Kevin MacLeod - Lightless Dawn
* uppbeat.io/t/kevin-macleod/li...
* License: JHTBAPDNSIWRVGFM
* Jonny Boyle - Crafty Crime
* uppbeat.io/t/jonny-boyle/craf...
* License code: 8XR3AJMLTRRJHHKQ
* Dar Golan - Sixties music • Sixties 60's music (fr...
* MARiAN - LoFi Retro Electronic audiojungle.net/item/lofi-ret...
* ONE MUSIC STANDARD LICENSE, Licensee: David Oranchak
VIDEO CREDITS: zodiackillerciphers.com/episod...
Many sound effects are from: freesound.org
LINKS
* The Batman's Version Of Riddler Is Gotham City’s Zodiac Killer screenrant.com/batman-movie-r...
* Riddler promo art the-batman-universe.fandom.co...
* The Batman: Someone has Already Cracked Riddler's Coded Message from the First Trailer www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/the-ba...
* Zodiac Riddler Notes www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-...
* Riddler cipher solution / 1297366572860874754
* Explanation / 1297390760422146049
* Another solution explanation / 1297589643131535360
* Cryptogram solver (Edwin Olson) quipqiup.com/
* Cryptogram solver (Johan Åhlén) www.boxentriq.com/code-breaki...
* Cryptogram solver (Tyler Akins) rumkin.com/tools/cipher/crypto...
* The Mikado staring Groucho Marx www.donkey-show.com/?p=1378
* John Toebes’ collection of “Solving Cipher Secrets” articles by Merle E. Ohaver toebes.com/Flynns/Flynns.htm
* Code-O-Graph www.pulpinternational.com/pul...
* The Zodiac and Riddler Notes www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-...
* The Batman standee posters and puzzles / 1469212985939746817 comicbook.com/dc/news/the-bat... www.argn.com/2021/12/riddle_m...
* Riddler puzzle site www.rataalada.com/
* Crypto toys www.campx.ca/children.html
* Zodiac Batman connections: web.archive.org/web/201406251... web.archive.org/web/200104221... • Trailer The Zodiac-Bat...
![Who is THE BEST Riddler? [Batman]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/p4PLqoS_bA4/mqdefault.jpg)
thanks for using language like "maybe" & "this makes me think of", rather than just formulating an exciting theory & not letting any coincidence exist like a lot of youtubers would. this is crazy though, i had no idea about any of this. thanks for the video as always
David is a very rational man.
Yeah, I don't get the impression he is trying to lead you down any path. This whole case is fascinating, and the style in which David presents his videos make it all the more captivating.
True, if you ask me top cultists, sector's of the government, mainly army, navy ,marines etc direct the whole thing, different groups take children!! Some freemasons etc. 30 odd thousand children go missing every year and they find a thousand or so. Where do the rest go, dissappear?? I don't think so!!
^^^^^^^^^^^
This is all too rare.
@@dondevice8182 fkn right it is, freemasonry is into it all!!
At this point David, I feel like you need to start a regular CZcams series on famous cryptograms in history, solved and unsolved, and their solutions, as well as the culture around them. You edit and explain really well and are super knowledgeable. I feel this content is outgrowing even just the Zodiac topic!
Agree that these videos are extremely well produced and easy to understand for just about anyone. Can’t wait for more content
@@jenl7094 yeah he is such an intelligent guy. Admire him
Here here. Let the ciphers loose.
This Zodiac fellow was very creative. It’s a shame he was also a psychopath killer.
My father wasn’t much fun. His secret life amused him but he never used his talents to help his family or friends.
I think he was more creative than most can even imagine.
I LOVE that they're making paul dano's riddler basically the zodiac killer. Looks like this film will essentially be Batman vs the Zodiac killer. Cannot wait for it
Love the scene when he's riding his bike. Song plays "...Underneath the bridge, and I'm...."
I want to add something, since you mentioned pulp fiction magazines: the origin of the statement "This is the Zodiac speaking" could even date back as far as the main story of an issue of "Detective Story Magazine", dated from August 27th 1921, where a killer called "Z" phones a local newspaper to report his murders and starts his calls by saying "This is Z speaking". "Detective Story Magazine" issues also published sections about cryptography.
Look at the video at 29:32. It flashes by very quickly. Is this what you are referencing?
@@mistertor Yeah, that's it. Didn't noticed, lots of stuff flashing on this video.
@@crocve And which of the characters would be well read enough and educated to know this? For me it will always be "Lee" Allen, Arthur Leigh Allen.
Yes, that story is rather interesting. I wish I had more copies of the old detective story periodicals so I can look for more crypto connections.
@@doranchak There were a lot of these "detective" magazines and the first run of "Detective Story Magazine" (1915-1949) was over thousend issues alone.
This looks like the ultimate Batman film for me - a noir detective mystery. That's always been the essence of the comics in many ways, and if this can be Zodiac with superheroes, I'm sure it'll be epic.
"This is the Zodiac Speaking.." = "This is the Riddler Speaking.."
Holy production value Batman! Really interesting stuff
Production value is high.
The slave hoop necklace is two circles interlocking and the chain comes from each side of the interlocked circles, kinda like the infinity symbol. I hope this helps understanding what was meant. It basically means you are taken. Pretty sure its been replaced now a day's by the cuff with hoop choker type neckwear called a "slave collar." This is so excellent thank you so much for posting your production.
Yeah, I looked it up. That's exactly what it is... Good catch.
Maybe the Zodiac was caught (for something else). Ted Kazinsky, the Unabomber had a mask and hood very similar to the Zodiac. In one of the last letters the Zodiac sent, he mentions switching to bombing instead of his previous kill-at-the-scene MO.
Ted's handwriting is also very similar. T.K used a similar logo to Zodiac, a runic letter Z (looks like an upside down chicken foot). He also kept a diary that used a subsition code. If Ted isn't the Zodiac, he was at least influenced by him.
The Zodiac died without ever being arrested or seriously suspected of a crime. He asked me if he would go to heaven. He told me he had done some awful things but never admitted he had killed anyone.
@@RandallHiggins I don't remember doing any of that.
Ted is ded. He's down here with me in the afterlife.
At 32:23 in this video, an interesting connection happens between Batman and the Z408 key, when Batman speaks to Robin about alphabet soup and says:
"Robin have you noticed, the Js, Qs and Zs are missing?"
It turns out that Js, Qs and Zs are missing from the Z408 key as well. What are the odds?
Good observation! Thanks for that. :)
Clearly Batman was a fan. Or Matt Reeves is.
I was totally enthralled by your presentation and research, incredible work! Stunned to see that you don't have a larger following, the production and editing that went into this video has me impressed. Especially enjoyed the humble presentation of information that lacked coercive hype and theorising, that you were simply sharing information rather than selling your own narrative.
👏👌
Yes, that is also what I am trying to say. He is brilliant.
David your production quality and ability to make connections is truly remarkable. You deserve so much more exposure for your efforts on this case. Just wanted to give you a big kudos.
Tremendously amazing ! It’s a daunting task to find so many comics and movies and books that may have inspired the zodiac killer. I truly believe the case will have been resolved if we know more about the social and cultural milieu back then. You are magic, David .
“ I am crack proof “could be him saying who He is. He obviously knew the 408 had been cracked. Surly he thought eventually the others would too. Maybe it’s been there the whole time hiding in plain sight.
Very interesting video. I’m quite surprised you didn’t include a segment on the Red Mask comic and its connection to Zodiac.
the red ryder connection is one of the strangest things in the case, up there with the exorcist letter signature. The most baffling thing is that the comics all came out in the 50s, and from my understanding older comics were treated pretty disposable, so I'm not sure zodiac would have been looking at the death wheel issue while making the halloween card. Did the death wheel make a big impression on a young zodiac? The VF symbol being in a red ryder colouring book makes it even more baffling.
@@Wisdomcucco There are some wild theories out there. Have you heard the one about that comic actually had a guest inker on it that wasn't the regular person. That person's name was ED too. Just like me. Hee-hee.
@@Wisdomcucco I think you meant this comic czcams.com/video/DYbQBaZ01MM/video.html
This was a fun romp thru Zodiac mental exercises. Back in the 1970s Robert Graysmith was still the political cartoonist for the San Francisco Chronicle. He was also a customer of mine when I was still a partner in then Bay Area comic book store chain Comics & Comix; then when I went solo as Best of Two Worlds.
His daughter was born the day I first opened in the Haight Ashbury in early November 1976. I well remember Bon talking about Zodiac, etc back then. I wonder if he was brought in as a consultant when the powers that be were devising the new Batman movie coming next month
The comparison with the movie number 23 seemed really apt here. You can overanalyze things and find connections to zodiac or really anything you want everywhere. But the video was really cool regardless.
Yea! This is one of the most interesting series running on YT!!
HOLY UNCANNY PHOTOGRAPHIC MENTAL PROCESSES
"POTBHLAPAESU Robin, POTBHLAPAESU."
"Don't you mean USEAPALHBTOP Batman?"
"I think you might be spiralling out of control Robin. Less time with those cheerleaders!" 🦇 🤸♂️🕺🤸♂️🤸♀️
🤳
'Holy moly Batman! It's another message from the Riddler!'
8h2 923w8hw qo9yqg24 w869 7w qh84y23 923w8hw w2d324 4q6h4.
Wow, someone give this guy a Batman costume, he deserves it!!! 👏👏👏
Apart from the fact that you are the closest CZcamsr to actually solve any crime puzzle like Batman, you also have the best review about the movie. I'll look for the old movie that you've mentioned and it woukd be good to see more contente with this type of approach.
I just saw the movie a few days ago. It was great! And cool to watch Batman doing codebreaking work. :)
Agreed. We need more crime solvers and crime fighters. And I loved that movie and the fact that it was inspired by someone who law enforcement believes was me, but not the public. It's a pleasure.
Amazing job putting all this information together in one place, brilliantly done!
This is an incredibly indepth episode. Had no idea Batman was so connected to Z. Amazing work.
Great content, really well researched and put together. Production value is also so good and makes it even more enjoyable to watch, especially for this ep.
OOOOO THIS ONE GONNA BE GOOOODDD LOVE IT ive been hyped for this movie for so many months and seeing a video from you about this will be awesome!
very entertaining 45 mins, thank you for creating and continuing this series David!
A quick perusal of Google Books shows that the John Gill epitaph ("Beneath this smooth stone ...") etc can be found in "Epigrams, Ludicrous Epitaphs, Sonnets, Tales, Miscellaneous Anecdotes by W.T.", published in London in 1807. It's also quoted (as "the least hackneyed" of its kind) in The Oxford Review of that year. By 1839, in the USA Edgar Allen Poe (editor) is quoting it in the Southern and Western Literary Messenger and Review, and also the Southern Literary Messenger.
That was really well produced, very interesting and a perfect timing. As other comments said, I would very much enjoy more analysis in this vain for similar cryptography cases and riddles.. I can totally get behind the thesis, that he was inspired by all the things shown and I imagine he was probably quite a nerd, in a time when this wasn't a positive thing. Batman needing the computer to solve the letter soup made me laugh, as its basically you (and other experts and community) doing detective work. The last citation made me think, if you ever thought about becoming an equal inspiration for someone..? Be it good or bad
Hahaha yeah it’s truly a very funny coincidence. David and his friends cracked the cypher by using a software and Batman solved the alphabet soup with computer.
Hi David! Another awesome video! This should be on the History Channel or something. Such professional quality. One thing occurred to me during the show, at around 19:48 to 19:58 you show a montage of Zodiac letters. Many of these show what appear to be water stains and various white lines (streaks?) within the paper itself. The Zodiac was known for this special paper he used in many of his correspondence. I'm wondering if there's a meta-puzzle he placed in there, something that would never be discovered unless all of the various LE agencies actually put their prejudices aside and shared their information. What if all of the sheets of paper the Zodiac used in his correspondence was laid out on his basement floor and he created a message of some sort on the paper itself? Something that is in plain sight, but you would never even notice unless you laid out all of his letters in a specific order? The MYNAMEIS letter in particular seems to have white streaks that form a white square (or diamond) on the page. What could account for that if not intentional? Just food for thought....
This is an interesting idea. It sounds like a scene from the Batman movie when he has all the pieces on the floor. Nice one.
Robert M. Higgins lived in San Francisco as a senior in high school in 1938/1939. He visited Treasure Island and I’m sure he saw the Charlie Chan movie (several times?). We watched Batman together many times.
This was amazing! Great job D I knew about quite a few but he found a lot of new ones I had not heard of. The voice overs were great!
Who knew batman was a fan?
Awesome work digging up all these resources, must have taken weeks to make this video. Very well done. Seems like Zodiac was influenced by these things but as you said they were common in pop culture back then. Whether Zodiac copied this stuff on purpose to feed or create his alter ego or not is a much deeper question. And Green Lama? whose crazy idea was that?!?
The mug is round, the decoder ring is round. They should call it Roundtine.
man i do not understand the algorithm these days...this is a A-plus high effort video with brilliant use of voicing and animating the comic book characters and clear signs of hundreds of hours of painstaking work, and this masterpiece has only 15k views after several months? Sir you have been robbed, this video deserves 20 times the views, it is exceptional.
Thank you very much! This video did take many hours to produce. But I had fun making it. The channel is slowly growing so I hope to keep posting videos since people seem to like them. Thanks for watching!
Thanks David. Great video. Didn't realise there was so much in the old comics etc and does make you think if this is where he could of got some ideas.
10:49 ah yes, "DC Comics"
"Detective Comics Comics"
Some of that occult stuff in “Charlie Chan at Treasure Island” seems possibly recycled from “The Dain Curse” (1929) by Dashiell Hammett.
My understanding was that Fletcher Pratt’s “Secret and Urgent: The Story of Codes and Ciphers” (1939) seemed the likeliest source for the Zodiac’s cryptographic work.
Dude great video and loved the tools overview
Awesome video as always. Keep up the great work
Great video thanks for this David.
This needs 100x the views. Maybe post it to Batman fan groups.
Now that's one hell of an idea.
Great stuff David !
You deserve a lot more subs! Great video
In the Joker’s first appearance from Batman #1 (April 1940) he hacks the airwaves and makes several broadcasts over the radio announcing _“THIS IS THE _*_JOKER_*_ SPEAKING…”_ declaring he was going to murder several high profile members of society and did it anyway despite advance warning and police protection. He taunted the law enforcement for being unable to stop him just like a real life attention seeking killer decades later.
EDIT: I misremembered. Instead the Joker signed off with _“The Joker has spoken.”_
Interesting comparison!
This was very interesting and informative :)
What a great video. It must have taken quite a while to put this all together.
Thanks for the great content.
Great film, love the sound work
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Great video! A lot of effort must have been put on this one
At 43:25, you mention the text piece in Detective #187 by Bob Lanza. At this time, almost all of the text pieces in National/DC comics were written by the prolific editor/creator/writer Gardner Fox under a slew of "house names" (pseudonymous bylines). The reasoning for these pen names has been widely debated by comics historians, but the most plausible assumption is that since he was the editor of the title, he received a flat fee as writer/editor. Anything additional, like the USPS-mandated prose pieces that all comics had at the time, would not warrant an additional payment, since Fox was already being paid a writing fee.
Therefore, if Editor Fox recorded a $12 cash payment to "Bob Lanza" for a spec filler text, the office would reimburse him with a $12 check to himself. Pretty much everyone knew he was doing this, and the tradition carried on with his protegé, Julie Schwartz. Because Mort Weisienger, the publisher of National, was such a skinflint, all of the talent pool at National were underpaid compared to other companies, so the phantom byline scheme was well understood by the accounting department and management team, and they allowed it to go on for years.
If you didn't know, comics had text pieces like this up to the 1970s, either as filler pages or to satisfy the Post Office's requirements for second-class mailing permits. To get that reduced postal rate, the publication had to have a certain amount of text, which was usually accomplished by a one or two page prose piece like the one "Bob Lanza" wrote.
Thanks for those details! They add a lot of color and background to those little articles I found for the video.
The real mystery is why number 12 is nibbling the bat
Holy Comics-Cryptology-Comics Loop, Batman!
Formidable!!!
I did not know about these connections!
Indeed, popular culture contemporary or pre 60's must have had its influences . Lady Doom and Red Ryder was not mentioned, but, that's pretty cool Dave
Dead Kennedys fan- I didn't know this either and I watched those old reruns growing up, I do know a lot of Astrology, probably to much for such a silly thing.
Pretty hyped for this movie, Pattinson makes a good Batman. And the Riddler is an awesome villain.
Nah.
@@NostalgiNorden Yah.
It is a Very, Very, good movie. My juices get flowing when he's riding his bike into the cave close to the start of the movie. The choice of dark music is "chef's kiss".
Sir it's just fantastic and fascinating at the same time
Albert Anastasia, the mafia head of Murder Inc, was known as Lord High Executioner. The motto for Murder Inc was "a knife or a gun., etc" because they were very careful about choosing their method. Suspect Larry Kane had mafia links. He was an escort for mob controlled actresses and singers. Kane's name can be found in 'Charlie Chan at Treasure Island'. While discussing Dr. Zodiac, Chan pulls a book off the shelf with the author's name 'Kahne'.
The Voynich manuscript has been solved. It was last year I think.
Great production! Wow, I don't know how you get all those permissions. Makes for an essential Zodiac reference. Thanks!
This is impressive. Never knew there were so many Zodiac inspired villains in comics in the past. Matt Reeves clearly put a lot research into molding Riddler after Zodiac for the movie. It's made more facinated and terrified about this Riddler. I still wonder if he put some Se7en in it as well, because that's another vibe I get from Riddler in this movie, too. Was the Most Dangerous Game ever proven to be an inspiration for Zodiac as well?
Maybe Bat & Gordon friendship have some elements from that Se7en movie
I think it's been said that he was inspired both by the Zodiac for the character of the Riddler. And by the grittiness of the movie se7en. Or at least I think it should. It's pretty evident.
One thing about the letters that always stood out to me was the use of the + sign in place of the word and.There couldn't be many people out there who wrote this way.
I've been an amateur researcher interested in the Zodiac case since the early 80s (and I even included a short chapter about the case called "The Z Files" in a self-published book that I wrote called "Labyrinth13"). This is one of the best speculative videos that I've ever seen anywhere about the case. Great job, David! Seriously, great job!
Thanks Curt! Very nice of you to say. I've come across your stuff from time to time over the years. Do you post on the forums?
@@doranchak Hi David. No, not in a very long time. I sort of "wrote the case out of my system" after I published my first book. But, it is achievements and new findings like yours that rekindle an interest in the case for me again. You and your team did it, you really did it!
@@CurtRowlett Thanks. Even though I realize we worked for a long time on it, it still feels like we got pretty lucky. A lot of things had to line up just right for the win to be possible.
20:42 I don’t know what a slave hoop necklace is, but the hoop at the bottom right is very similar to one of the symbols in the Batman cipher. It looked like a hot air balloon to me, and as soon as I saw it here, I recognized the balloon type shape. I don’t know what that has to do with the history of the zodiac in Batman, but it’s definitely interesting to me
Hi David, at 10:52 you mention that _Detective Comics_ is better known today as "DC." They're two separate things. _Detective Comics_ is the title of the comic book featuring Batman, and is still being published today under that title. The publisher of that title is known as DC, which officially doesn't stand for anything, but is meant to evoke a relationship with the comic title. It replaced the previous name of the publisher, National Periodicals, which was deemed too "stuffy" and not very comic-like or inviting to children, unlike other comic publisher names.
Interesting history - thanks for sharing!
What about Neighborly/Averly connections of The Caidoz. Mike is Living by Mt Diablo. That’s a Zodiac comic freak for sure, try JMC for a man who would cut down a Cherri Tree, beware he’s ALIVE one.
all bets on the table, spin that wheel of fortune dana stigma He did it. Who? The #caidoz
Great video, the code wheels are especially interesting, I always thought The Cipher Writer used some kind of physical object to help him keep track of symbol sequences 👍
@Eric James explain please
It is apparent from reading the snippets of the Zodiac's writing that you highlight that spelling was not his strength. I wonder if the as-yet unsolved ciphers have misspellings in them that make them impossible to solve.
Misty Johannsen made a great connection for Sal/Ken on the History Channel re: the comics and the Charlie Chan zodiac movie. She is a wealth of information... and definitely worth checking out.
WOW!!! Unbelievable and i thought i was a ZODIAC know it all, LOL, great stuff fantastic video keep it up!!! U got a new subscriber
It's crazy that he may have gotten his ideas from comic books
If you think of it, He'z been connected to things that were considered 'pulp'. Including the Tim Holt Comic.
An impressive episode! What better way to profile the mind of the killer than understanding his sources, his cultural references, etc. All this work may perhaps provide the necessary additional context to decrypt the short messages ...
One can only hope that someone, at sometime, could properly profile the mind of the killer. I like the way you said that by the way. And I would agree, that it's important to understand his sources, cultural references etc. I feel that is incredibly important. And I'm always wondering, if many are missing just those things, if they were sent as clews, but no one could understand them, because of how he was thinking.
Good stuff thanks
Love all the content man and love how you come across as a genuine, honest person
Thank you! 😀
This is probably a stretch, but my eyes were instantly drawn to the part of this video where you discuss "Secret Codes Can Be Fun" by Henry Lysing, in particular, to the image immediately after the image showing the actual article, where we see examples of the "Tic Tac Toe" code (41:38). The part at the top right showing the "WXYZ" with the dots, along with some of the symbols in the cipher below it instantly reminded me of the strange symbol that was drawn on both the envelope and the inside of the Halloween card that Zodiac sent to Paul Avery. I would really love to read Mr. Lysing's "Secret Codes Can Be Fun" article and learn more about the Tic Tac Toe code. Any chance you have the actual text of that article? (I'm asking because I'm not willing to pay the price for a highly collectible Batman comic from 1948, just to test a theory, lol). EDIT: a bit of searching online brought me to what is known as the "Pigpen" cipher method, which looks a lot like the "Tic Tac Toe" method. (And that, folks, is how you find yourself instantly at the entrance to the rabbit hole).
Sure - Here are the articles I found: imgur.com/gallery/YOjHIEr
The connection between tic-tac-toe codes (also known as masonic or pig pen ciphers) and the Halloween card symbol has been brought up on various Zodiac forums before. I'm not aware of any significant result from interpreting the symbol using masonic cipher keys. Might be worth a closer look though!
@@doranchak Awesome, thank you for the link. I also read a brief piece online about a similar "Rosicrucian Code" that mimics both Pigpen and Tic Tac Toe. And with that, I'm back down the rabbit hole. Cheers.
Hey David, I know it's not zodiac related but do you have any ideas about the KRYPTOS 4th code? I know nothing about it really but I'd like to see you and your two amazing associates give it an analysis. Kudos again.
Hi Dave, will you do an episode of the suspected mails by Zodiac?
1978, 1990 and 2001 seems like there is a lot of debate. What's your opinion?
Zodiac referring to the Exorcist as the best satirical comedy he's ever seen has such cringey 14 year old reddit edgelord vibes
A masterpiece. Extremely well researched and edited.
Interesting as always. I never seen the connection.
I'll watch this tomorrow, as it's late, but I did kinda draw something to what this video is sorta talking about.
"If you want to find the number two sixteen in the world you'll be able to pull it out of anywhere. Two hundred and sixteen steps from your street corner to your front door. Two hundred and sixteen seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything it will filter everything else out and find examples of that thing everywhere. Three hundred and twenty, four hundred and fifty, twenty-two. Whatever! You've chosen two hundred sixteen and you'll find it everywhere in nature. But as soon as you discard scientific rigour you are no longer a mathematician. You're a numerologist."
Best Liverpudlian I ever heard.
Edwin Olson's solver does better than you give it credit for, at 5:16: you scroll all the way down to BELIES STILL, but its very second guess is RELIES STILL.
Oops! I missed that one. Thanks. :)
David. I am fan of your videos and your research
Thank you very much for watching! 🙏
@@doranchak can you explore more on decoding of markings made by zodiac at the bottom of exorcist letter
That is a good suggestion, and a good idea for a future video.
@@santoshkumarbhat3053 I think that would certainly be an interesting topic for a video!
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He even talks like Zodiac, "This Is the Riddler speaking" the "Goodbyeee" etc etc
I just saw the movie last night and noticed that. He also called the cops "pigs" like Zodiac did.
That's a lot of zodiac references 🤔
It does not seem coincidental to me of how many connections there are between these old comics and The Zodiac Killer. Seems he might have been interested in this. David, I would suggest using the Secret Code of the Junior Justice Society of America decoder to run against the eleven (or more) comic characters and try to decipher Z13. Maybe start with a simple substitution of each character (x inside circle might be needed to figure last). Maybe then try transposing with a period transposition (2 might be most difficult considering circled X is listed three times with each skipping a character). Like any cipher, there are many possible substitutions and transpositions.
Unrelated to the topic but y'all see the green screen effect on Cesar Romero's hand against the chalkboard at around 14:20? Is that what originally aired?
Detective comics is still known today as Detective Comics.
DC Comics is the brand named after Detective Comics.
Cool, I never knew that.
The spacing of the first line almost looks like the first two letters are initials instead of a two-letter word. What other phrases appear if those word breaks are used?
How many EPISODES do we really need here ?
Zodiac loved movies.
Who doesn't love movies? Well maybe me. I'm dead and burning in hell. It's a wonderful afterlife.
Another one you missed is Orson Welle's character in Black Magic (1949), which would probably suggest that Charlie Chan's Black Magic is also worth a watch...
I love Orson Welles. Did you know that he supposedly met with and auditioned the Black Dahlia? I don't know if it's true. So I made that up.
There seems to be no coincidence that the code wheel uses most of the same cypher symbols. Maybe it's worth doing and episode on using it with Z's cyphers
Are you going to do a video on TONY XERO suspect?. a female investigator got the XRNO in Morse code i think from the 340.
I think there's a good chance the zodiac was inspired by at least SOME of these things....there are too many coincidences and similarities for him not to be.
It would be quite fascinating if any of the cryptogram "tools" from the old comic book ever referenced the "one down two over" pattern that Zodiac used to hide his code the 340. It has always been curious to me, since you cracked the 340, how Zodiac came up with such a complex pattern for code give the fact that other indicators, like his horrible spelling, pointed to not high levels of education. I am sure you have looked, but that seems like it could be a bit of a "smoking gun" if anyone were able to find the specific "one down two over" pattern Zodiac used to hide his code. Similarly, he often separated the code into three sections. Do any of the old cryptogram tools mention such a method?
Anyway, I love your videos! Keep up the good work!
I've been wondering this too. I haven't gone through all the Merle Ohaver articles yet but they cover a great variety of encoding schemes. There are also thousands of stories in the old periodicals, some of which mention specific cryptographic schemes. It would be interesting to dig those up and catalog the different schemes that are mentioned.
And also look for cryptogram tools that perform symmetrical arrangements that pivot around a central character, like the Z13.
At 32:23 in this video, an interesting connection happens between Batman and the Z408 key, when Batman speaks to Robin about alphabet soup and says:
"Robin have you noticed, the Js, Qs and Zs are missing?"
It turns out that Js, Qs and Zs are missing from the Z408 key as well. What are the odds?
@@rogerverreault8682 Those odds are definitely not even, I'd say.
I wonder if there is a ranch with a brand near Deer Lodge.
Have the zodiac letters ever been used to check for invisible ink or messages written on top. As in... When you have a notepad and write something on the first page it might pass through on the second page.
Good question! I don't know the answer. I wonder if any forensic examiners who looked at them could even say anything about their results, since the investigation is still open.
I just noticed that the story referenced at 29:59 was written by a Bob Kane. Isn’t there a suspect named Kane or something similar?
Yes - Lawrence Kane: zodiackillerfacts.com/zodiac-theories/the-accused-the-accusers/larry-kane-zodiac-suspect/
So basically Zodiac is a man of comic books, and B movies from his formal years in the 30s, 40s, 50s. A loner, its hard to believe his family couldn't have an inkling of suspicion. This dull boy got his Mikado reference either from Groucho or Gold Key Classic comics.
What if my family did suspect me? But they were so terrified, appropriately so. Such that they knew better than to cross me, and additionally, because I was smart enough to obscure my activity just enough, that would ensure that it would not get out. Is that a possibility?
Anything is a possibility. I finally arrived at the hard truth: the Z Murders are unsolvable after 56 years. Witnesses, clues, DNA, mishandling of evidence, have degraded or been compromised. I don't even watch this channel anymore. Time to move on...
All your videos about the Zodiak Killer are really of a remarkable quality. Not only the content but also the way its made is really outstanding. You should contact a streaming service and offer your video series about the Zodiak. Thank you for this great work.
I would agree. It's a beacon of how you should do this if one had the talent and ability to do such a thing. Such a marvel really. A unique ability to decode ciphers.
Could the shorter unsolved codes have been messages or instructions from the Zodiac meant only for remote associates who had been given decoding instructions out of band?
Sort of like a Team of Zodiacs? No. No it couldn't. LOL.