Re: Recent incident of alleged killing of blasphemer in Pakistan: What blasphemy Law? The Quran informs the reader that the Prophet was mocked, ridiculed (37:12) like the messengers before him (13:32; 15:11; 21:41). He was called an inventor, forger, a liar (16:101; 25:4), a man who was bewitched (17:47; 25:8), that he was a possessed poet (37:36). Insults were even hurled at the Quran, in that it was called 'muddled dreams' (21:5), 'foreign, outlandish' (16:103), an invention, a forgery (38:7) and tales of the men of the past (25:5). However, the single most grave blasphemy was undoubtedly the blasphemy against God Himself. 7.180 “The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity (Arabic: Yul'hiduna) in His names: for what they do, they will soon be requited” Arabic: Yul'hiduna - Blaspheme, deviate, violate, distort, pervert. At no point did any of these insults attract the death penalty. Rather, the advice was: 38.017 "Be patient over what they say and remember our servant David, the man of strength for he was repeatedly turning (to God)" 20.130 “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before its setting, yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that you may have (spiritual) joy” Whether repeated insults and evil transgression which incite hatred, terrorism and evil in the land can be classed as 'fasaad' remains a matter for the state to decide. However, this is very different from the general 'blasphemy' understood by many Muslims today who believe it correct to murder anyone for uttering anything against the Prophet. By the way those who criticize the noble personality of the blessed Messenger (S) take their material from sectarian Hadith Books compiled by defeated Persians generations after. Who is going to have the guts to clean them up?What blasphemy Law? The Quran informs the reader that the Prophet was mocked, ridiculed (37:12) like the messengers before him (13:32; 15:11; 21:41). He was called an inventor, forger, a liar (16:101; 25:4), a man who was bewitched (17:47; 25:8), that he was a possessed poet (37:36). Insults were even hurled at the Quran, in that it was called 'muddled dreams' (21:5), 'foreign, outlandish' (16:103), an invention, a forgery (38:7) and tales of the men of the past (25:5). However, the single most grave blasphemy was undoubtedly the blasphemy against God Himself. 7.180 “The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity (Arabic: Yul'hiduna) in His names: for what they do, they will soon be requited” Arabic: Yul'hiduna - Blaspheme, deviate, violate, distort, pervert. At no point did any of these insults attract the death penalty. Rather, the advice was: 38.017 "Be patient over what they say and remember our servant David, the man of strength for he was repeatedly turning (to God)" 20.130 “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before its setting, yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that you may have (spiritual) joy” Whether repeated insults and evil transgression which incite hatred, terrorism and evil in the land can be classed as 'fasaad' remains a matter for the state to decide. However, this is very different from the general 'blasphemy' understood by many Muslims today who believe it correct to murder anyone for uttering anything against the Prophet. By the way those who criticize the noble personality of the blessed Messenger (S) take their material from sectarian Hadith Books compiled by defeated Persians generations after. Who is going to have the guts to clean them up?
Again wonderful discussion. I have one common experience everytime on this topic from traditionalists whenever we try to refute the concept of chaining the hadith narration cannot be fully reliable. Immediate response from their side is then how can we believe that the script of Quran also came with full reliability as this also came across generations after generation in the same format. I would like to understand what is the proper answer of this question as this also to a large extent seems valid question? Please if you can reply on this.
Quran was a writing, a Book, from the very start of its revelation; and it was Mohammad pbuh who managed to keep the revelations in the Book Form constantly as it continued being revealed bit by bit. None other than the Almighty Himself testifies to it. Therefore, all theories about its “jamaa’ and tadween” in the period after Prophet Mohammad, stand invalid. These stories were concocted by enemies to relegate the stature of this Divine revelation. Please see the divine testimony in Quran’s words about its status as a Book (having been written) even when it was still being revealed:- 1. Verse No.80/11-16 No. It indeed is a remembrance/advice; So, whoever may wish, may remember it/take advice from it; it is in exalted pages, lofty in status, written by those who were highly respected scribes. 2. Verse No.85/21-22 BUT, that is an honorable Quran; in a guarded Scripture. 3. Verse No.56/77-80 I do swear by the Galaxies; and had you known it, that ’s a great oath to take; that indeed is a respected Quran; safely placed in a written volume; none may benefit from it except those with the purity of heart and mind; gradually revealed by the Lord of the Worlds. 4. Verse No.25/5 And they say, it is the ancient scriptures that he had got written; and the same is dictated by him mornings and evenings. 5. Verse No.98/2-3 A Messenger from Allah, reciting purified written pages/scriptures, wherein are established laws. 6. Verse No.52/1-3 I swear by the Toor (Quran); and by the Book written in lines, on the widespread pages (Quran)! 7. Verse No.41/41-2 And indeed that is a dominant Book (Quran); Foul does not enter it from front or back (presently or in future); revealed gradually from the Wise and the Praiseworthy.
@@mobyinayet5383 Thank you brother...I see this part gets clear that book form was already there. But still one can argue that what is the proof that no one made any changes in it. This one also need to be answered. HOWEVER I REMEMBER there is one verse which tell Allah has protected this book and shaitan cannot enter it from any sides. Does this ayat itself can be proof that nobody can change it as it has devine protection.
Dear F A, My understanding is that All religions are man made including all islamic sects. So all religions have almost no joint points with the Revelations of God, including Qur'an. Qur'an is left aside after the Prophet's death and complete abandonment occurs after Shafi, more than 1200, come with new premise that Hadiths are Revelation too and are equal to Qur'an (practically above Qur'an). I think this premise is the highest level of SHIRK. My prove for Qur'an abandonment are these verses 45:6, 31:6 and 77:50 where God asks people "in what HADITH after the verses of Qur'an they will believe". These verses, and many others EXCLUDE FOR EVER ALL HADITHS but Qur'an AS THE BEST HADITH in matters of the DEEN. Furthermore the verse 33:53 asks believers to go to eat to the Prophet's houses, just in time where the meal is ready, and leave immediately after finishing eating without ENGAGING IN HADITHING. Therefore THE PROVE for abandonment of Qur'an are the verses mentioned above, because if Qur'an have been read by those people they would be afraid to pronounce the Hadith word, let alone playing with them (hadiths) So in my opinion the response to hadiths lovers should be to interprete verses 45:6, 31:6 and 77:50, where God clearly EXCLUDES ALL HADITHS. If they go to others verses to support hadiths than you can ask them ARE YOU DECLARING THAT QUR'AN HAS CONTRADICTIONS. Regarding the part "the same people "saved" Qur'an and Hadiths" the response in my opinion should be: 1. These people abandon Qur'an too or 2. If they didn't, later generations attributed to them hearsays (hadiths) One thing is clear QUR'AN DO NOT TOLERATES ANY HADITHS ON THE MATTER OF DEEN. Who declares otherwise goes against Qur'an, respectively, against God.
@@salihahmetaj i second that. Infact i have same opinion as yours. But somehow the Sunnis will bring up aayats like atiulla watiurrasool etc. It is so deeply absorbed in their psychology that for them it is like they are unable to understand anything without giving reference to any quote of some sahaaba or early age scholars .
We have been redirected away from Islam we are now deep in shirk. Islam has been killed and buried alive for a very long time, we are only lucky that, it is still alive but in grave. We were given something similar to it to follow. Alhamdulillah people are gradually reviving the Islam by exhuming it from the grave. Islam is Quran only no addiction or reduction. I reverted to monotheism just 2 years ago after suffering from doubts.
The reference Leslie cites about 5000 philosophers being killed can be found in Chapter Eleven, Jamal Uddin Afghani, p.g 110 in Modernist Islam edited by Charles Kurzman.
[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran* has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
These are God's revelations (Quran) that We recite to you with truth, so in which hadith other than God and His revelations (Quran) do they believe? 45:6 A Book has been brought down to you, so let there be no constraint in your chest because of it, and so that you may warn with it. It is a Reminder for the believers. Follow what has been brought down to you from your Lord and do not follow any allies besides Him. Rarely do you remember! 7:2-3 Or do you have some book in which you are studying? 68:37 In 68:37 God is mocking those who have other books besides the Quran which they follow. And this is a blessed Book which We brought down, so follow it and be reverent so that you may attain mercy. 6:155
I could speculate even the Qur'an are just Hadiths. There is so much wrong with the standard narrative it is a good time to witness its struggle to exist.
The Quran is a hadith, God says in the Quran that it is the best Hadith, hadith means Narration/statement, the Standard narrative is very simple and clear and logical you just need to start being sincere and stop being bias, God has been sending down messages to us and people have been failing to uphold them, The Quran is the final message to us All and is miraculously preserved, no alteration of doctrines, the verses and chapters are the same, obviously scribes could have made mistakes there and there from time to time but we can go back to the original and check it PLUS we have the oral tradition which has been proven in the past that is a very reliable way of passing down any book, there are books that have been passed down only by oral tradition, Read the Quran with a open mind, Ask The God to guide you, After reading the Quran after hating islam my life has changed and i see the purpose of life clearly. Peace
@@thesignsofgodareamongyou8306 I find no message in the Qur'an just an insane amount of literature that literally, when seen as a whole, has only an interpretation of events that we hold far more ancient truths about them than these interpretive texts. It's interesting that you hated Islam, can you tell me in a clear and simple way what message you found that was nowhere else? Cheers.
As there is a Trinity in Christians ..Jesus is the God.. or .. Gabriel is the God .. or God disguised as jesus..... In same manner there is a Twinity in muslims that ... Mohammad is the Allaha. Or Allaha is disguised as Mohammed ... ⁉️...
Allaha says donot create Two Allaha.... Allaha is Absolutely only One.... ( Sure Al Hadeed.. ) ..If any body following Hadees ..Making Hadees important and comparing Qurran with hadees.... Having firm believe that untill and unless you know hadees you will not understand Qurran ...Than believing these type of concepts is nothing but creating Two Allaha ... ...
Allaha didnot allowed nor allows any body to make Tafseer of Qurran....Qurran is in it's tafseer only.. Ehesanal Tafseer.... Do we have any Tafseer of Qurran made by our prophit Mohammed . ⁉️...No....Then who allows these clerics to do Qurrani tafseer on their own thoughts it's a ⁉️ on them....
This is a brilliant discussion, and I highly enjoy Leslie's research. You're a great host too. I'd love to see more of him in the future inshallah.
Excellent lecture well done based on strong Quranic principles
VERY ENLIGHTENING!
Leslie is correct, The God bless him in sha Allah
Good information
Recommended reading:
Reopening Muslim Minds
A Return to Reason, Freedom, and Tolerance
Author: Mustafa Akyol
Re: Recent incident of alleged killing of blasphemer in Pakistan:
What blasphemy Law?
The Quran informs the reader that the Prophet was mocked, ridiculed (37:12) like the messengers before him (13:32; 15:11; 21:41). He was called an inventor, forger, a liar (16:101; 25:4), a man who was bewitched (17:47; 25:8), that he was a possessed poet (37:36). Insults were even hurled at the Quran, in that it was called 'muddled dreams' (21:5), 'foreign, outlandish' (16:103), an invention, a forgery (38:7) and tales of the men of the past (25:5).
However, the single most grave blasphemy was undoubtedly the blasphemy against God Himself.
7.180 “The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity (Arabic: Yul'hiduna) in His names: for what they do, they will soon be requited”
Arabic: Yul'hiduna - Blaspheme, deviate, violate, distort, pervert.
At no point did any of these insults attract the death penalty.
Rather, the advice was:
38.017 "Be patient over what they say and remember our servant David, the man of strength for he was repeatedly turning (to God)"
20.130 “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before its setting, yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that you may have (spiritual) joy”
Whether repeated insults and evil transgression which incite hatred, terrorism and evil in the land can be classed as 'fasaad' remains a matter for the state to decide. However, this is very different from the general 'blasphemy' understood by many Muslims today who believe it correct to murder anyone for uttering anything against the Prophet.
By the way those who criticize the noble personality of the blessed Messenger (S) take their material from sectarian Hadith Books compiled by defeated Persians generations after. Who is going to have the guts to clean them up?What blasphemy Law?
The Quran informs the reader that the Prophet was mocked, ridiculed (37:12) like the messengers before him (13:32; 15:11; 21:41). He was called an inventor, forger, a liar (16:101; 25:4), a man who was bewitched (17:47; 25:8), that he was a possessed poet (37:36). Insults were even hurled at the Quran, in that it was called 'muddled dreams' (21:5), 'foreign, outlandish' (16:103), an invention, a forgery (38:7) and tales of the men of the past (25:5).
However, the single most grave blasphemy was undoubtedly the blasphemy against God Himself.
7.180 “The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity (Arabic: Yul'hiduna) in His names: for what they do, they will soon be requited”
Arabic: Yul'hiduna - Blaspheme, deviate, violate, distort, pervert.
At no point did any of these insults attract the death penalty.
Rather, the advice was:
38.017 "Be patient over what they say and remember our servant David, the man of strength for he was repeatedly turning (to God)"
20.130 “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before its setting, yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that you may have (spiritual) joy”
Whether repeated insults and evil transgression which incite hatred, terrorism and evil in the land can be classed as 'fasaad' remains a matter for the state to decide. However, this is very different from the general 'blasphemy' understood by many Muslims today who believe it correct to murder anyone for uttering anything against the Prophet.
By the way those who criticize the noble personality of the blessed Messenger (S) take their material from sectarian Hadith Books compiled by defeated Persians generations after. Who is going to have the guts to clean them up?
Please read Dr Kashif Khan's articles on the internet to know the Creator's Islam which most Muslims and non Muslims don't know .
Again wonderful discussion. I have one common experience everytime on this topic from traditionalists whenever we try to refute the concept of chaining the hadith narration cannot be fully reliable. Immediate response from their side is then how can we believe that the script of Quran also came with full reliability as this also came across generations after generation in the same format. I would like to understand what is the proper answer of this question as this also to a large extent seems valid question? Please if you can reply on this.
Quran was a writing, a Book, from the very start of its revelation; and it was Mohammad pbuh who managed to keep the revelations in the Book Form constantly as it continued being revealed bit by bit. None other than the Almighty Himself testifies to it. Therefore, all theories about its “jamaa’ and tadween” in the period after Prophet Mohammad, stand invalid. These stories were concocted by enemies to relegate the stature of this Divine revelation.
Please see the divine testimony in Quran’s words about its status as a Book (having been written) even when it was still being revealed:-
1. Verse No.80/11-16
No. It indeed is a remembrance/advice; So, whoever may wish, may remember it/take advice from it; it is in exalted pages, lofty in status, written by those who were highly respected scribes.
2. Verse No.85/21-22
BUT, that is an honorable Quran; in a guarded Scripture.
3. Verse No.56/77-80
I do swear by the Galaxies; and had you known it, that ’s a great oath to take; that indeed is a respected Quran; safely placed in a written volume; none may benefit from it except those with the purity of heart and mind; gradually revealed by the Lord of the Worlds.
4. Verse No.25/5
And they say, it is the ancient scriptures that he had got written; and the same is dictated by him mornings and evenings.
5. Verse No.98/2-3
A Messenger from Allah, reciting purified written pages/scriptures, wherein are established laws.
6. Verse No.52/1-3
I swear by the Toor (Quran); and by the Book written in lines, on the widespread pages (Quran)!
7. Verse No.41/41-2
And indeed that is a dominant Book (Quran); Foul does not enter it from front or back (presently or in future); revealed gradually from the Wise and the Praiseworthy.
@@mobyinayet5383 Firstly Qurran was Revealed by Allaha to Prophit Mohammad .Than it's written in the shape of a Devine book..
@@mobyinayet5383 Thank you brother...I see this part gets clear that book form was already there. But still one can argue that what is the proof that no one made any changes in it. This one also need to be answered. HOWEVER I REMEMBER there is one verse which tell Allah has protected this book and shaitan cannot enter it from any sides. Does this ayat itself can be proof that nobody can change it as it has devine protection.
Dear F A,
My understanding is that All religions are man made including all islamic sects. So all religions have almost no joint points with the Revelations of God, including Qur'an.
Qur'an is left aside after the Prophet's death and complete abandonment occurs after Shafi, more than 1200, come with new premise that Hadiths are Revelation too and are equal to Qur'an (practically above Qur'an). I think this premise is the highest level of SHIRK.
My prove for Qur'an abandonment are these verses 45:6, 31:6 and 77:50 where God asks people "in what HADITH after the verses of Qur'an they will believe". These verses, and many others EXCLUDE FOR EVER ALL HADITHS but Qur'an AS THE BEST HADITH in matters of the DEEN.
Furthermore the verse 33:53 asks believers to go to eat to the Prophet's houses, just in time where the meal is ready, and leave immediately after finishing eating without ENGAGING IN HADITHING.
Therefore THE PROVE for abandonment of Qur'an are the verses mentioned above, because if Qur'an have been read by those people they would be afraid to pronounce the Hadith word, let alone playing with them (hadiths)
So in my opinion the response to hadiths lovers should be to interprete verses 45:6, 31:6 and 77:50, where God clearly EXCLUDES ALL HADITHS. If they go to others verses to support hadiths than you can ask them ARE YOU DECLARING THAT QUR'AN HAS CONTRADICTIONS.
Regarding the part "the same people "saved" Qur'an and Hadiths" the response in my opinion should be:
1. These people abandon Qur'an too or
2. If they didn't, later generations attributed to them hearsays (hadiths)
One thing is clear QUR'AN DO NOT TOLERATES ANY HADITHS ON THE MATTER OF DEEN. Who declares otherwise goes against Qur'an, respectively, against God.
@@salihahmetaj i second that. Infact i have same opinion as yours. But somehow the Sunnis will bring up aayats like atiulla watiurrasool etc. It is so deeply absorbed in their psychology that for them it is like they are unable to understand anything without giving reference to any quote of some sahaaba or early age scholars .
We have been redirected away from Islam we are now deep in shirk. Islam has been killed and buried alive for a very long time, we are only lucky that, it is still alive but in grave. We were given something similar to it to follow. Alhamdulillah people are gradually reviving the Islam by exhuming it from the grave.
Islam is Quran only no addiction or reduction. I reverted to monotheism just 2 years ago after suffering from doubts.
You shouldn’t interrupt when he is in the middle of explaining something rather present your question when he is finished what he is saying!
The reference Leslie cites about 5000 philosophers being killed can be found in Chapter Eleven, Jamal Uddin Afghani, p.g 110 in Modernist Islam edited by Charles Kurzman.
[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran* has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
These are God's revelations (Quran) that We recite to you with truth, so in which hadith other than God and His revelations (Quran) do they believe? 45:6
A Book has been brought down to you, so let there be no constraint in your chest because of it, and so that you may warn with it. It is a Reminder for the believers.
Follow what has been brought down to you from your Lord and do not follow any allies besides Him. Rarely do you remember! 7:2-3
Or do you have some book in which you are studying? 68:37
In 68:37 God is mocking those who have other books besides the Quran which they follow.
And this is a blessed Book which We brought down, so follow it and be reverent so that you may attain mercy. 6:155
Allahu AKBAR!!!!! Be HIM GLORIFIED!
Does the Shahadah equate Muhammad with Allah?
I could speculate even the Qur'an are just Hadiths.
There is so much wrong with the standard narrative it is a good time to witness its struggle to exist.
The Quran is a hadith, God says in the Quran that it is the best Hadith, hadith means Narration/statement, the Standard narrative is very simple and clear and logical you just need to start being sincere and stop being bias, God has been sending down messages to us and people have been failing to uphold them, The Quran is the final message to us All and is miraculously preserved, no alteration of doctrines, the verses and chapters are the same, obviously scribes could have made mistakes there and there from time to time but we can go back to the original and check it PLUS we have the oral tradition which has been proven in the past that is a very reliable way of passing down any book, there are books that have been passed down only by oral tradition, Read the Quran with a open mind, Ask The God to guide you, After reading the Quran after hating islam my life has changed and i see the purpose of life clearly.
Peace
@@thesignsofgodareamongyou8306
I find no message in the Qur'an just an insane amount of literature that literally, when seen as a whole, has only an interpretation of events that we hold far more ancient truths about them than these interpretive texts.
It's interesting that you hated Islam, can you tell me in a clear and simple way what message you found that was nowhere else?
Cheers.
As there is a Trinity in Christians ..Jesus is the God.. or .. Gabriel is the God .. or God disguised as jesus..... In same manner there is a Twinity in muslims that ... Mohammad is the Allaha. Or Allaha is disguised as Mohammed ... ⁉️...
Yes u r right , Muslims are doing shirk too. Please read Dr Kashif Khan's articles on the internet if you haven't read yet .
Binitarian god
Allaha says donot create Two Allaha.... Allaha is Absolutely only One.... ( Sure Al Hadeed.. ) ..If any body following Hadees ..Making Hadees important and comparing Qurran with hadees.... Having firm believe that untill and unless you know hadees you will not understand Qurran ...Than believing these type of concepts is nothing but creating Two Allaha ... ...
Read quran
Allaha didnot allowed nor allows any body to make Tafseer of Qurran....Qurran is in it's tafseer only.. Ehesanal Tafseer.... Do we have any Tafseer of Qurran made by our prophit Mohammed . ⁉️...No....Then who allows these clerics to do Qurrani tafseer on their own thoughts it's a ⁉️ on them....