Freakshow Distributor Woes- Troubleshooting Issues With A Popular Electronic Ignition Conversion
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2022
- Faulty sub standard wiring inside this relatively new Pertronix distributor led to an oddball drivability problem with this early Mustang.
Here's what went wrong with it, how we troubleshot the issue and what you need to do if you run into a similar issue.
#ignition #points #HEI
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I worked at a petronix distributor for VWs back 10 years or so ago and we had the same issue with the wires. Petronix always said 'we have never heard of it, send in the part'. On the VW version the wire would also get pinched between the advance plate and body and would eventually fail. ALL of their distributor bodies are made in china but was told the module itself was still made in the U.S., not sure if that is still true today.
One other HUGE issue with their distributors was the amount of mechanical advance. The stock unit only put out about 19* where several dozen Ive worked with had 30* OR MORE!!!!! Hook up your vacuum and you were running more than 40* which is death for an aircooled VW.
Sad that a $50 part can burn down your ride while the manufacturer knows of these issues for decades but still fail to do adequate quality control.
Re the mechanical advance: You need to understand how an ignition system works, the timing events desired, and how to manipulate a distributor for it to do exactly that. The auto manufacturer did it on the factory one. It's up to you to understand all that to make a new one perform properly so you're not ruining VW or other engines. Just because it will swing 30* or more out of the box doesn't mean you should let it do that.
Pertronix: liars!
Having the centrifugal advance system on top makes it easier to fine tune the advance curve and is one of the reason to choose that style. Plus like you said some of the components are probably easier to obtain........ As for that vacuum advance problem you might even have run into a poorly designed system that the vacuum advance could pull the electronic pickups into each other. I agree that the cheapest contractor available corporate mentality is a problem.
It shouldn't be lost on anyone that you can pull a '65 mustang out of a barn, put a battery and fresh gas in it and fully expect it to run.
Most people would argue that expecting a 60 year old aftermarket ignition to work is unreasonable. Maybe the same holds true when it's two months out of warranty.
It's not 1988 any more so OBD1 CHIP UK wide band failed 120,000 CZcams.com/user/fiddlercove microcosmic Flux capasater
Great catch Tony! It was problems like this that taught me to become very meticulous in diagnosing, too take the time _every time_ and start at the beginning, stand back and look at and think about how a system is supposed to work, then check everything in each system that relates to your problem. _"If you take the time it takes, it takes less time!"_
Great saying above: "If you take the time it takes, it takes less time!" = TRUE, thanks!
The pertronix wire reminds me of marine rated wire actually. Very soft and pliable coating and soft lay strand wire.
As soft as it is, you'd think it could handle the movement better.
Yeah, I'd blame design/routing more than anything else. Doesn't quite look like top quality "test lead wire" (hundreds of strands), but close enough it should hold up if the product was properly engineered and built, which is often not the case with these aftermarket hot rod parts.
Yes, I worked in the aftermarket for over 11 years and we had the Pertronix conversion kits in the line years back. They were pretty good back then, but they did have their issues. At the time they were the "big one" to use in electronic ignition conversions. Of course, many people would just find a pre-1981 GM HEI and swap it into their engine in many cases.
Kiwi is correct. It comes down to volume. In the case of Pertronix, since the "applications" are wide versus a stock OEM part, they go with the least common denominator. The problem that you have is as you found, even the stock replacement items from the "OEM" are an issue, because after many years, they are too are farmed out. AC-Delco who used to make everything GM aftermarket (and buy their non-GM applications from companies like Wells Manufacturing) doesn't make anything anymore. They are merely a marketing arm for GM's aftermarket parts division. Case in point: In 1995, they sold their mechanical fuel pump division. Companies like Blackstone (then part of BWD Echlin) took over making pumps for GM. A true "Delco" mechanical pump that's pre-1995 will have the AC logo on it. Later ones do not.
Delco and other "stock" aftermarket companies look at Polk registration data to see how many of a given application are left. They then use that to make decisions such as: Do we continue to make it ourselves? Do we have Vendor "A" or Vendor "B" make it for us? Do we have it made for us in China? Do we just drop it from the line? Do we sell out the inventory that we have (which could last several years) and then discontinue it? All depends on what the company is targeting.
Further, companies buy each other out. So, a company like Echlin was bought by Standard Motor Products in 2003. With less choices for consumers to buy parts, it's "we got it, you need it, take it or leave it" philosophy. That lead to a lot of offshoring of product and of course each time something is copied, it often gets worse.
I've been saying it for years. It's bad, bad, bad, bad business and the race to the bottom (line) will get us nowhere fast.
T L D R
Aren't you supposed to use suppression spark plug wires for those units, I thought I heard them say they non suppression type racing wires?
@@jerryedwards456 I've always heard them say that. But, sometimes companies say use suppression wires because the government wants them to reduce radio static, not because they fry or scramble the ignition box or module.
I think GM Parts legally has to get parts from the lowest cost source, but, in practice, the only company making the part is the one that made it for production anyway. I don't think GM tries to skimp on quality to save a penny. They do in production, but not specifically for service.
The automakers stop selling parts that are not profitable, unless they are required by law to keep selling them because they are emissions parts. But that is a lot of parts.
@@auteurfiddler8706 You'd be surprised what happens to save a buck.
I swear everything electronic in my life right now is falling apart. Phone, radio, etc nothing I can do about it lol
You can stop buying it 😎
As long as you don't have a pacemaker, you're still good.
All we ever do is notice our breath mindfully and dream of life before the Internet and cell, mobile phones. Lol!
It's absolutely nerve-wracking that nothing electronic is reliable anymore.
Not even just Electronics.
I've been researching for weeks what parts are most reliable for my 1995 Bronco 5.0 and the answer's always seemed the same. Is just a crapshoot.
they use soy wire sheath and the mice love to eat that!
Just goes to show, that you never EVER toss old parts. It may shit up the shelf, it may collect dust, most likely will piss off the wife, but old parts beat the shit out the overpriced junk produced today!
When I'm too old to turn a wrench, then stuff get shit canned
Rebuilding/Restoring old parts is a valuable $kill that needs to be learned.
I've seen it enough times, somebody who flunked science class replaces a bunch of shit, all at once, because by some asinine logic they figure new and unproven is somehow better than old and proven. Then they add insult to injury and toss all the probably good (save for perhaps one) old parts, making troubleshooting the car that inevitably no longer runs right difficult and expensive. Worst I saw was on an old OBD 1 car, where they replaced every sensor and the ignition system as part of a engine rebuild, AFAIK it never got sorted out.
.... I remember seeing issues with that little green wire on GM distributors on GM motors as well.. They were always prone to corrosion as well as breaking... Thank you for the info on the use of one way distributor designs being fitted for reverse direction.. I did not ever know or even think about that... Lastly, I fully agree with you about aftermarket crap like this 👍🇺🇸
Speaking of Quality Control, did anyone else notice the sharp bend in the white ground wire inside the distributor as it snakes down towards the base of the distributor assembly? Good grounds internally are just as important and any wire under "stress" should not be ruled out as a suspect. My 2 cents.
I see what you mean, but video not really close enough to spot a minimum bend radius problem. What happens kneading a wire back & forth [or pulling tight against a sharp edge] is strands begin to break over time, current capacity is reduced and problems begin - an ohm meter does not find this kind of problem, but a volt meter will by proving voltage drop across a conductor with a load applied. Generally, bending a wire where radius is smaller than 6x diameter is begging for future failure. Also, the more strands there are, the more bendy a wire is - I like marine grade [tinned] wire such as Ancor makes [it's very good stuff in DC applications].
Low tech detection? The feel of any wire should be consistent. Hard spots are either aging/heat damage of insulation or even strands fused together. Softer/easy bend spots will almost always be broken strands -- sometimes all are broken and it will stretch easily when pulled. In either case, replace wires. For those that want to really prove conditions [especially through one or more connectors], use a ductor: it current injects [typically 10 amps].and measues voltage drop with millivolt accuracy to prove resistance with a load. Anything in a car droppimg 150mV or worse is a problem being born/needs attention - maybe just a small wire brushing of terminals does the trick. Whats a ductor normally used for? Breaker repairs [verifying points condition prior to high current injection testing & usage] and.large coils [like a generator].
not to mention using dykes to strip wires , instead of being just a little professional and use the proper tool.
At least Ford put the distributor where you can work with it.
Amc,ford.buick and big block mopar.
Uncle Tony is the reason I bought a Slant 6 Valiant ... I hope I can make mine sound as Badass as his!
When we replaced those HEI pickups back in the late 70's we put a dab of silicone sealant on the wires where they went into the pick up coil. Helped to relieve the strain.
A lot of the Chinese primary wire is not copper but rather copper flashed steel or aluminum.
THOSE BASTARDS!
I had a similar issue to the one Tony refers to with the HEI distributor in one of my GMC pickups. The thing is that my issue was caused by the distributor being over 20 years old with several hundred thousand miles by the time it happened. It was a stock HEI in a 1977 GMC and one of the VERY fine wires going to the pickup coil inside the distributor broke just because of everyday wear and tear. It would start and idle fine but, when you hit the throttle, it would instantly cut out.
Same here in a Pontiac Firebird, cost me a tow off the NY Thruway but that car had 176,000 mi on it.
@@jeffb3487 Sure but after many, many miles unlike the Fords with the Thin Film distributor ignitions from the late 70's through early 2000's. I used to carry a spare module and wrenches in my explorer they failed so often.
I put a Pertronix on my 73 mach 1 351CJ. Ended up removing it and going back to points. Seemed like a great idea, but in reality, the engine is made for points, and runs better as designed. Some people love it, but it's not for me.
No you just don't like modern ignition systems.
@@extremedrivr Actually I did like the idea of the pertronix, but Ford installs a ballast into the wiring harness, so I couldn't get the correct voltage to the pertronix. The only way to make it work correctly was to find the ballast, and cut it out of the wiring system. Didn't feel like hacking up a factory wiring harness.....
I went to HEI distributor on my 64 223 f100. Let me say biggest hunk of crap I wasted money on. Felt loose dropping in timing was all over the place. Finally it gave up the ghost. I went duraspark 2 from a 300 fit like a glove. swapped out the gear for the cam. My truck hasn't ran this good in a long while.
Not even done watching the video and I can say this is incredible content. UTG is truely a national treasure, guys like him built our favorite version of America!
Back in the early 90s, to get electronic ignition in my 67 Mustang, I just used a later model Ford electronic distributor with a typical 4 connector GM ignition module which was remote mounted on a shock tower. Easy and reliable, with the exception that the ignition module would fail every couple of years, but at least it was easy to get to, always available, and cheap to replace.
There is a similar set up for Chrysler to use the GM set up and have HEI without having to use the GM style distributor. Basically you just replace the ignition module, and wire in the GM one and mount it on an aluminum plate for a heat sink and mount the plate to the firewall.
Not many dudes today do anything but replace parts
First thing they do is grab a scanner even tho they have had the same problem a million times
Such a good video. For all the UTG haters: Tony diagnosed this shit over the damn phone in less than minutes! 95% of most would have pulled their damn hair out!
Reminds me of the time I rear mounted the battery in an old mechanically injected diesel truck. Heavy throttle would kill the engine very similar to this. Power: on; off; on; off; on; off. Took me a while to figure out that when the engine torqued over, the main hot from the battery to starter had worn through and was shorting on a cross-member when the engine was under heavy load. Effectively closing the fuel shut off solenoid. Actually, I shouldn't say "figure out". Rather "find"! I swear I scrutinized every inch of that wire under the truck for weeks. And swore there was NO WAY that was the problem. Wrong! I finally was at my wits end and only after I yanked all the electrical, did I find the tiny little spot where like two strands, maybe, were shorting to the chassis. These are the things that can only be learned the hard way.
Sometimes those type of intermittent problem can drive you nuts!! With all the modern electronics in today's vehicles along with sensor and software glitches.. even more nuts! I used to call those problems the David Syndrome, meaning that's the "David" who brought down the Goliath.
Nice job UT. I had a similar issue with my HEI in my '72 Pontiac Grand Ville with a 455. Vacuum advance caused a stumble. As you mentioned, engines like Olds and Pontiac have distributors that turn in the reverse direction to Chevy. In my instance, when the vacuum advance moved the base plate, it would pull on the connector to the ignition module. The connection became sloppy after a while...
Thanks for the video guys! That is some freak sh..! Instead of buying aftermarket and running the risk of getting chinese crap I took Tony's advice and recurved my stock distributors advance! Works awesome! Thanks Tony
That's exactly what happened to my 77 Olds Cutlass Supreme 350 C.I. (What a beauty). One of the two wires on the reluctor "pole piece" broke off. The only way to replace it is pull the distributor to remove the shaft. So the reverse rotation makes perfect sense.
Some of those components after a little bit of use will loose ground when the advance is triggered. Add ground wire with a small screw or preferably silver solder on a braided copper wire to the movable plate and distributor housing or intake, for longer issue free operation.
I've unfortunately never had a car old enough to have this issue. But I'm hoping to be able to get an older car in the near future. So I'll catalog this with the other loads of knowledge I've gained from your channel. Keep it coming. Thanks again Uncle Tony
Ford point ignitions had a similar issue with the braided ground cable from the point plate to the distributor housing.
I had the same problem in a GM car in the early 70s, broken wire inside insulation. We had another weird problem with a Ford pick up. It would die as soon as the key was released from start to run. All new tune up, then discovered the white ceramic ignition resister was burned in two. Hard learned lessons.
With an aftermarket component like a ign module, I always recommended buying a spare and keeping it in the car. Pertronix points to electronic conversion kits you can keep a original wire harness and points set for backup. I know many will say their Pertronix never has failed but do all parts stores stock them? What if you are on a road trip when it fails? Pertronix is pretty good but I have still replaced many failed units.
I keep spare fuel pump, points, regulator just so the modern stuff knows it they are in the trunk, ready to go. Haha
Love you brother man.
Thanks for helping me continue my enthusiasm after burning out.
This was one of the coolest "nothing beats experince" moments I have ever seen. I'm not really into working on my own cars any more but still enjoy a good mechanic video. I came across UTG a few months ago and it is just a joy to hear someone speak honest truth based almost entirely on experience. I can only hope this is what my younger IT colleagues hear when I talk about computer/network stuff. (Though, I never give myself that credit because I have a wicked case of permanent imposter syndrome. lol)
I find advance weights below the plate just as easy, easier in some cases. I think points get a bad rap. The thing that went wrong for ford was the aftermarket parts for their distributors. Vacuum advances were all over the place in the position of the hole at the end of the rod. Timing plates would be way out of position, dwell would change 10 degrees when the vacuum advance pulled on. Motorcraft then designed a plate to help but when the aftermarket kicked in the plates were so cheap that timing jumped all over the place. I started making my own plates designed on the lines of what NAPA used to sell. Timing is rock solid and stable to 6k rpm.
Points have their limits with rpm. Many times points will fall off after 4500-5000 rpm….hence why dual points were invented.
Delco HEI was a big deal back in the day. People were driving cars with spark plug electrodes burned mostly away and still running .
I can not thank you enough for posting videos like this. Your channel was a massive help with the work I did on my friend's 1986 Dodge Ramcharger 4x4. He drove that truck 6 hours home and drove it daily (including in -14*F temps) with it running like garbage and could not figure out why. Well, I give Chrysler big props for the abuse that low compression 318 took, because there were massive vacuum leaks and it was some how running with the ignition timing way retarded...it was like the perfect storm of issues that some how made it run and "drive". I was able to rebuild and clean up his 600 CFM Edelbrock carb, set the choke, went though everything connected to the Edelbrock intake manifold and fixed the vacuum leaks, put the brake booster on the correct vacuum port, got the ignition timing set correctly and got the vacuum advance on the correct port, and its a completely different engine! Instead of having to try to start the truck a few times, and pump the throttle and hold the throttle to make it run from cold, you just touch the key now and it fires right up! Throttle response is snappy and it smoothly revs, it doesn't run hot like it did before, and he can actually get that beast up to 70 MPH on the highway instead of struggling to get to 50! I have told people for years now that there is nothing wrong with carbs, and thanks to you Uncle Tony, I got to prove that point :). And now, you may have helped with an issue a friend of mine is having with his old Buick thanks to this video on that distributor issue :)
Bought a really sweet Chevette years ago. Guy had it to several shops, spent a bunch of money, gave up and sold it. Gave him his $50, unplugged the vac advance and drove it home. Pickup coil wire losing connection.
Well Uncle Tony - you deserve much of the credit for a purchase I made today Sir. A very cool 1973 Plymouth Valiant sedan - white top over a beautiful blue will soon be in my garage. I cannot wait to finish a couple of other projects (off-road 4x4 Ford Ranger and Fox Body Mustang coupe) and start the process to make this old girl a reliable everyday driver. She is SO beautiful when compared to the "new" cars on the road today. Please keep up the wonderful work and I thank you for the inspiration.
It wasn't only those BassAckwards HEI distributors that suffered from broken wires, Tony.
The instant that Kiwi described that symptom, I said to myself "Did you disconnect the vacuum advance line, and did the issue go away?"
I'd encountered that exact problem on nearly every make of vehicle that I worked on throughout 36 years of owning an auto repair shop, as long as it used a vacuum advance unit on a distributor.
This is why I enjoy watching UTG you know what's up.
Had this exact same problem on a 1978 Chevy truck I had: failing broken wire on HEI distributer pickup coil. New pickup coil and problem was solved.
Always keep some TXL rated wire, terminals, good crimping tool, and shrink tube on hand for repairs. Always !
If seen people just pull the wires through the distributor to tight. They forget that the distributor moves and do allow for slack. Not a issue of wire quality. If you have too stiff a wire it will impede the moving of the vacuum advance.
I have an hei unit in my 86 dodge w250, runs great! I also have an hei unit in my 82 Ford f150...runs great!
I did get a protonics points delete for my 66 Pontiac lemans it died after 3 months, I since went to a Mallory unilite I got at a swap meet that's probably 10 years old and I love it
Funny protronics didn't give a shit about my fail I lost all spark and I tore the distributor down and restored it.
Went through the same thing with some flat tappet lifters! Damnit that's annoying!
When I was in high school my mother had a 68 falcon in 74 and the pigtail primary wire from the coil to the points did the same thing what a good find for a 16 year old I was squire proud of that diagnostic,as far as I remember all gms broke either the green wire or the tan wire
I learned my lesson with pertronix a few years back. Had one of their hei ignition modules cause weak spark and horrible running. Switched to msd hei module and never had an issue again.
I had one of the HEI distributors in my 64 Falcon with 289 and had nothing but trouble. Changed to the Pertronixs Ford style distributor and it runs like a champ.
I saw that a lot on gm hei distributors. I’ve replaced many pick up coils (or pole piece as they were called).
I bought a HEI distributor for my 68 Toronado after the old mallory HEI pact. Didn't make it 500 miles or a year before it failed. Replaced it with a MSD pro billit and am happy so far.
Idk Tony that HEI distributor I bought for my 440 straight from China is GREAT!!!
AMC was the definition of hybrid. I have a Pertronix module inside the original Delco-Remy distributor on my '69 AMX It already had a Pertronix coil when I got it.
I bought a cheap Chinese UniLite clone conversion from Ebay kit for mine. I haven't installed it yet.
i remember the hei issue. ford duraspark same thing. had a mopar once the bushings were wore out on the shaft. the pickup would actually hit the reluctor when the vacuum advance worked. slant six.
The cables inside the distributor don't have much slack by the look of it. I used Pertronix over ten years without a hitch, before changing to Megajolt. Together with a more potent coil it did miracles on cold start and bettered general performance. It was on the hobby car though which I did not drive during winter, so little mileage.
That happened on old DelcoRemy distributors. The solution was to put a spiral in the ground wire so that when the plate rotated it wasn't bending the wire back and forth.
YES! What he ^ said! It wasn't mentioned in the video, but that is the fix.
The big problem is, it can be almost impossible to find actual oem parts for classic cars, and most of what you do find used are worn out. I have had nightmare after nightmare working on '60s cars using cheaply made but not cheaply priced reproduction parts. But original parts are often no longer available. Ford no longer makes parts for a '60s Mustang. And as long as it's not a race car, I am still a fan of points and condenser ignition for vintage daily driver cars. My 289 powered Pinto woodgrain wagon has points ignition, and I haven't touched them in years.
A fella would be chasing his tail for hours had he not had experience with this in the past.
Choosing the right part is always going to be a compromise. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide if it's worth installing components that might cut back on some maintenance, but the trade off is that the part may totally fail on you someday.
About a thousand years ago, Autotronic Controls was developing a new ignition distributor that eventually became the MSD Billet. Components were readily available for a Prestolite design, and for the Delco window cap. The Delco design had the advantage of the advance parts being in top, under the rotor, and easy to service/change. So they chose to use the advance, rotor, and cap of the Delco, with the adjustable Prestolite vacuum cannister, and a baseplate with a Ford Duraspark pickup along with the Duraspark reluctor mounted on the shaft. They would make a housing from aluminum billet to accommodate all this, with a ball bearing, to most any engine they wanted. The result was a quality, robust distributor that could run to any rom you would ever run a distributor.
Eventually, the copy cats started to make copies of those distributors. I believe the majority of the units you see today, including the Pertronix and some of the newer MSD units, are these copies. Sure Pertronix uses their electronic module, but it's still the billet distributor housing a guy at SEMA offered to sell me by the container load.
Amazing detective work and yet more evidence of the trouble us old car enthusiasts are in courtesy of Chinese after market parts.
Tony, you are spot on as usual. It was the Olds HEI that would do that. Fixed many. As far as electronic ignition goes, on a Ford product a Duraspark system drops in, uses readily available parts and is super reliable. Though I’m with you , if it were mine it would have points.
The Ford duraspark was hit or miss, you either got a good one that would outlive the vehicle it was installed in or you would get a car/truck that would fry the duraspark box every couple of months, I'm not sure why but that's my experience with them, I always prefer to see the original box still installed even if it's leaking goo and looks bad, they usually will work but the cheap aftermarket replacement boxes are lucky to last 6 months.
Amazing!! I would still be scratching my head!!
This is why I run old school distributor, points, condenser, coil & resistor in my ignition system for my ‘66 F100 with a 289 & 3 on the tree. Don’t fix what ain’t broke.
To be honest while I haven't tried any aftermarket distributors, I am a strong proponent of the Petronix Kits to replace the points!! I have them in every vehicle I own/have owned that was points originally with absolutely no problems of course these were original distributors!!
They are generally pretty good things. This is likely wires or connector, any corrosion or looseness will knock out the pulse signal. Same thing used to happen in Chrysler ignition modules at the connector and many others.
I recommend using the duraspark 2 ignition to convert from points to electronic if you are dead set on swapping. It looks stock and performs well.
Exactly so for that engine.
duraspark 2... lol... memories of that in my 77. Igniiton control modules will be your friend(keep in the trunk)
That is very true of the older modules, the later version with the blue grommet is the best one and OEM units are still available. Painless wiring sells a Duraspark wiring harness as well.
hellll nooooo.
Old school Pro info!!! Great job!
Great diagnosis Tony!
I've seen more then once where the thin wires from the pickup coil of an hei distributer have broken from the movement over the years. Long ago on my Chevy 2 I had a miss that turned out to be the wire broken off inside its insulation going to the coil. It can happen almost anywhere.
I've heard that protronics on some not all applications have a phasing issue with the rotor to cap terminal making the spark jump as the rotor is not where it should be when it lites.
I had a two-year old '79 Delta 88 in 1981with the 350R Olds engine. Did exactly what Tony described. I gave it gas when the light turned green, it got just enough forward momentum to block the busiest intersection in town at 4:30pm when it died. I pushed that big thing by myself the rest of the way across 5 lanes of traffic, and when I recovered, walked around the corner to the parts store, bought a pick-up plate and module. Pulled the distributor and replaced them right there in the corner parking lot. (Always kept tools in trunk, it WAS a GM after all.)
i have one of those distributors in my big block dart. one day, it was running the worst it ever had, had no power, was spitting and popping, and when i turned it off, it never started again. popped the hood, and you could smell burnt electronics. the module failed. i must have filled out 10 warranty forms online, and never got an answer until i tagged and roasted them on instagram. they made me cut the wires on the old module and send them a photo of it before they would send me another. its back in the car and runs fine, but its still in the back of my head.
10 years ago, I would've argued that. I've now had a Malloy HEI fail twice. One was a shaft and another was a super thin and small diameter reluctor. The smallest crack popped it free from the shaft one winter. Not a spark anywhere. My MSD and almost non of factory HEI have done that. I'm running out. My idiot friends would just throw away their factory, working, HEI for a performance version and I was on board. But throw away working parts?! Mine, all mine. Mallory unilite in two vehicles and two, dual points set ups, have never failed me. Not in 32 years.
@ uncle Tony
An old neighbor i had i used to go fishing with had a offshore boat with a gm inboard 5.7 liter 350 with hei distributer, if i remember it was fuel injected.
Well we went to go one day. We launch the boat idles fine, once we cleared the no wake zone and hammered down on the throttle it started missing and popping like crazy. But if you went back to idle it was perfect. The bushings the shaft spun in decided they were done, so under load the shaft walked all over so it didn't stay in line with the cap on the distributer. Sad part was it didn't have very many hours on the engine which the neighbor bought that boat brand new. It was maby a year and a half old at most.
I have seen that on all makes. Not just aftermarket parts. You can not take any new part for granted.
Hey uncle tony…
the trick u showed for feeling the wire to find a break.
Stupidly obvious snd simple.
But
Has helped me help others.
Keep it up
On this issue I don't understand why you would not use a standard Ford electronic ignition which you can curve the distributor any way you want and it dwell on a blue module is set at 32°. They're good for six grand + which is more in these engines will usually run Tony is so right about aftermarket I don't use them until the engine exceeds what the standard parts can handle. Plus you can walk into any store and get the part.you can't do that with aftermarket keep up the good work
Luke over at Thunderhead289 covered a similar situation with his Pertronix distributor in his F-100. You can search his channel for the video. In it he covers where his failed because of the ground wire breaking and causing his truck to shut down and not start. He made a temporary fix and got back going. I can say at least with this company the drop in kit that I put on my 68 Dart with a 318 has yet to give me an issue. I think that isn't just on Pertronix so much as it is an overall design flaw with style of distributor, the wiring could be better and the opening in the plate for the wires needs to be longer to give the advance enough room to move with out pulling on the wires. A little tweaking of the design could fix that problem. The other would be for the company to use better quality wiring.
Cost a bit more but we’ve been very happy with Progression Ignition distributor. Appears to be high quality and performance and features are great. Got tired of cheap aftermarket distributors on our Dodge Travco motorhome.
My old '75 Chevy HEI distributor has 81,000 mi on it for the sixth time that I know of, has been through an devastating under the hood fire, goes through a control module about every 5 years. I'm happy with it.
Another great tech session
I saw another one of those distributors on thunderhead289's channel. His truck died out on the road and the ground had come loose. Looked to be a similar advanced / rotation stress area that the ground wire just couldn't handle. What a sad state of affairs.
5$ a gallon gas ,let's go Brandon
found same problem on factory chry dist pickup wire rubbed through insulation on inside of dist when vac advance moved it back and forth
I had pertronix in my ‘68 beetle.
The wires got hot and melted.
No start.
Back to some old ass points never looked back.
Still running points in my '68 Bug...best thing to do is keep our classics as original as possible!
For a while I was thinking I bought a Pertronix ignition system for my 318, because it's been a while since I bought it, and the horror stories were getting to me. After thinking about it I'm pretty sure now that it's a Proform unit; I didn't know if it's any better or worse but I do know one thing: if my Proform kit is a piece of junk, it's a cheaper piece junk than a Pertronix unit -and it won't waylay me as much if I have to replace it!
The issue is more likely a poor connection between the the breaker plate and ground. Put a ground wire from the breaker plate to battery ground.
i bet you this didn't have a full 12v source.
ALL of these aftermarket distributors NEED 12V! NO EXCEPTIONS! or you WILL fry things and get stuff like this to happen
this maybe whats up with my truck thanks tony ill look into it
I heard so much bad about the pertronix modules but I have been lucky with 4 or 4 different chevys. I have a brand new spare in my tool box just in case. Fingers crossed 🤞
That shocking experience is why I only buy NOS Accel Ferro core 300+ wires and make them myself. Ebay has them for like $40. Had that problem on my Supra, got lit up when I came near the cap.
Had a similar issue with a Pertronix 3 module in a stock 289 distributor. The grounding wire on the module had some sort of issue where it was not conductive (not an internal short because it was one of those mesh wires). I replaced it with the original wire from the points I took out and it’s worked fine for 8 years.
Boy was my dad mad that I messed with that car when it was running perfectly before with points. In hindsight UT is right, leave it stock unless you have a compelling reason for going aftermarket. These quality of these new parts is absolutely terrible.
I've installed countless Pertronix distributors with 0 issues on Mopar, (Big and Small Block), Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Ford, and Chevrolet. Getting rid of antiquated ballast resistors and ignition boxes on Mopar and Fords especially makes things much cleaner. My customers really don't like carrying around spare ignition components to install when they are trying to leave a car show. Not trying to start an argument, but again, I've had great success. Just installed a Pertonix on a 64 Max Wedge 2 weeks ago. Customer likes that his car actually starts and runs consistently.
That's crazy that they use stranded wire. They're supposed to use braided wire for that.
The Gm HEI distributors always had a problem with one of the wires on the pickup coil would pull away from the pick up coil and another problem they had was rotor button issues that the spark would travel to ground and the car wouldn't start.. I use to see alot of the GM HEI distributors years ago with those problems as well as the modules going out of them.. I have dual points distributor in my 65 mustang and wouldn't trade it for electronic ever...
@Amy taylor I am having a great day and how is your day going
Another priceless observation,
I was right there with you on the broken wires
I had a problem with a Pertronix I installed after a while it started missing like that and would return when the advance kicked in. Turned out you have to correctly position the signaling unit so the rotor is aligned with the plug tab in the cap or it will arc to the wrong wire when it triggers the spark!! Never figured out how it started, though? Figured someone messed with it!!
I had that happen to me with an HEI . Took me for ever to figure it out
You have to check out the 123 ignition. It’s mainly for British and JDM vehicles.
I installed on my 240z and holy crap did the car come alive. I plug in whatever timing curve I want on my phone an it wirelessly programs the distributor. Save as many curves as you want and plug them in whenever you want. Takes no time install.
With some things, you are farther again to rebuild the original. As long as you understand what you are doing.
Miss firing with ignition vacuum is common for electronic ignition pick-ups and internal ignition modules. An old school ignition problem with electronic distributors. To diagnose, use a vacuum pump while the engine is idling.
There's so much cheap junk out there today it is really hard to buy good parts. Even when you go out of your way to get the "good" stuff, it's junk. We live in troubled times.
Called a dead head, this is where the ends of the rolls of wire in the manufacturing, when they put the coating on sooner or later the ends of the wires come together and there is a split. The manufacturer don't care about this as the percentage of it doesn't out way the amount of times it happens. I worked at the Chrysler minivan plant in Windsor Ontario Canada and we saw this so much it was unbelievable.
You should have seen us trying to static time with an Ignitor II. Ho ho ho! It don't work unless it senses a certain minimum rpm, to keep it from burning up when the key is left on. Oh well, it's rev limiter has proven useful.....
Word on the street is that pertronix is not what it used to be for some reason. I have had luck with the retrofits. Others buy two so they can get home without a tow truck.
Big cam/lope tune installed installed,lol. Sounds good driving into the meet,but leaving it's a laugh.