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HEALTH or DEFENSE? WHAT DOES ATTACK DO? EXPERIENCED EXPLANATION AND BREAKDOWN! - Rise of Kingdoms
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2020
- In this video we go through the 3 main stats that go into how the game calculates damage. It's a confusing concept that is generally misunderstood, and hopefully this will help shed some light on what these stats do for you. NOONE KNOWS THE FORMULA, IF THEY SAID THEY DO, THEY'RE FIBBING FIBBER-FACES. Enjoy! :)
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So what you’re saying is.. stay HEALTHy?
Stay healthy my friends ;)
Totally true, I equiped Edward with full attack gears and test it vs Richard and Martel I won and left around 3 k troops ( that was 3 trial average) , I changed the gears only to health and defense equipment (same talent tree on all tests) and retest it again on same opponent , I won but I have 11 k average left from my march !
The summary is not only attack stats as most think will benefit the commander or the rally !
Thx bro , very good content
Keep it up 👍
Can u share reports the test Ed (attack gear) vs Richard and Ed(mix gear) ?
@@trungle6511 talk with me in discord, ŠKY#8883
🤔unfortunately unless the passive damage skill of alex didn't proc at all it wouldn't it be difficult to measure the actual effect /difference...
i suggest using commanders that doesn't have RNG in his/her skills.
@@kazekagegaara698 it was Richard and Martel vs Edward 5-5-5-3 and ysg , no Alex here , I tried 6 battles in total to reduce RNG effect , it was consistent on 11 k remain troops .
It was 1 vs 1 tho , but it gives you idea .
oh shoot totally my bad probably need to sleep...
Nice video, just a note another important aspect is slightly wounded vs severely wounded. This is calculated by the difference between the enemy attack and your defense. So not only does defense prevent damage it also helps prevents severely wounded on top of that. This is why when you get low in troop count more of your troops become severely wounded or why when your t1 farmer gets attacked 100% of them become severely wounded
I think a lot of that also has to do with damage type, like skill vs normal/counterattack
This is great in depth information on why health is so important, nobody else has covered this topic. I was hoping nobody would lol but dragothine brings the knowledge to the people. This is why you see so many whales going to kingdoms in KvK for the 10% infantry health skin. It's very hard to come by and that skin right now is probably the best in the game. I'm infantry focused guy so maybe bias a bit 😁
Shinchi also did it, I think he was the first one
i ve write things about health 1+ years ago for my old alliance, because at that time, people dont believe in health stats, most got 50-70% atk and def, but health is abt 20%,
what i can say is, defense and health works the same way, both reducing the incoming damage, can try joan 1st skill with full inf, or with full cavs, if you ask why health did better in reducing the incoming damage, it is because of the calculation, increasing 50% defense while you have 100% defense tech is like adding 50% to 200%, which is around 25% from total, meanwhile health tech bonus is usually lower, so having 50% health bonus while have 50% tech, is like adding 50% to 150%, which is around +33.3% in total, means, adding the same percentage to defense will have lower results than adding same percentage in health, because health total tech is usually lower (those 50% is just an example number, so can easily calculated)
that was a long way of doing the math I did on the video ;)
Im very happy there is someone out there who goes this deep in game and especially pvp mechanisms . well done drago. you doing a fantastic job that no one else does
Appreciate ya
That the video I was waiting for!
Keep up good work Drago and please stay healthy!
nice outdoor! through the window, i see greens and spring! :) where are you from drag?
DC in the US
speaking of HP, health,
1) French gives 3% on ALL troop, not just infantry!
2) Jo Jo of Arc buff a team of infantry with 30%HP, so as Leo 1st skill.
3) solid state HP chunky heroes are Constatine and Sunzu;
4) HP debuffer Athflat girl, needs to be tug well and protected! All these small details combined are battle and tide turning, :)
Great video! More video like this plz, we would love the know more about the game mechanics !
It's interesting that they have added some NPCs in for example Ceroli Frida boss where they reduce only defense by up to 75%. This makes me believe that health stat would be more important in some situations while defense might be good in others if they keep on releasing defense reduction or health reduction skills.
Interesting point
Hi Dragonthien, thanks for the info. So between 7% attack and 7% def vs 10% HP rune, which one is better?
I like the one that gives the most stats so 14>10
THanks Drago...Even BIG players doesn't know difference. TJ - 1402
It’s hard to generalize on this. 50% expansion and the base stats have more effect(base stats difference between nations), otherwise the percentages have bigger influence.
How 'bout guan+alex, what should i work on? Reinforce attack? increase defense or health?
Def/Health
defense helps more when you are being swarmed than health, since you stop more damage coming in from multiple attacks instead of all those attack having the damage done to the same pool of health
Yup
This is very helpful. Thanks a lot for posting.
Hey Drago for ppl that play mmrpg attack, defense and health is nothing new like you say we all know how it works, but like you say the milion dollar question is how to fine tuning def and health without we know the formula.
Bit you had a real nice pragmatic and simple approach in your explanations, even we don’t know the formula it makes sence we should try to get as much health as we can since is always the lowest, that ligthed now in my mind, and now makes sense the city themes that give health have more drawbacks.
But after the milion dollar question comes the holy grail...what gives you less severely wounded/ dead troops? Do you think the same applies? Or more health will make tou last longer but get more sw/d troops and the other way arround last less but less sw/d? Or sw/d is not influenced by this sats individual...is just a % of the dmg you cant mitigate?🤔 anyway some bideo about the most important subject all veteran players try to get the answer 🤣🤣🤣🤗✌️
From what I’ve seen it’s a combination of everything in this video and skill damage causing more slightly wounded and normal/counterattack damage causing more severely wounded
This is an incredibly helpful video. Thank you so much for making it. Since this is an image from the stable, and you said the green stats posted are from tech and alliance tech. So when you add a commander to the mix, those stats are boosted even more based on their skills and primary commander talents, correct?
Correct
Thanks this video is the best to understand the numbers
Thank you for sharing us this information.
Hi i need an advice march speed did effect battles in open fields and if yes what exactly ? Thanks in advanced
Good video! I'm a full cav player using Germany as well. Given my role on the battkefield as a damage dealer I'm all in on attack and was actually considering a switch to Arabia for the unit attack buff. Do you think I should make the switch to Arabia (I don't launch rallies)? And should I use a health city skin instead of an attack one?
Thank you and keep up the good work!
spain has the highest attack cav in the game. the arabia civ bonus only applies to rallies for the second portion. i'd stack attack as much as possible if your role is pure dps, as you likely won't be the first one in, but behind the tanks
Hey, so let me get this correct as I'm not 100% sure. I believe you're saying regarding equipment/rune in the correct order to go for attack equipment/rune first, then any health equipment/rune then defence equipment/rune? If that make sense. For example go for the gatekeepers shield rather then staff of the lost for infantry? I presume this apply to cavs, archers and infantry?
Yes
Defense or health ???
Roma or prancis, plis help me boss🙏
Health for rally garrison and def for open field. I have a Rome or France video to watch
@@Dragothien ty boss 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for the great video! I have a bit of dilema.... who to give my equipment "Trial of the Lost Kingdom" to? I'm cav and Arabian civ. It gives good cav defence but then the health is important too. It's currently with Athefled for Sunset but I don't really use her on the open field.
On cav you want the vanguard set. Trial is best on an archer or aethelfled with archers
Thank you Dragothien, we needed some video related to the battle mechanics. i have just one question, do you know how this stats determine how many units will be severely and how many slightly wounded?
I don’t think it’s stats, I think it’s damage type
Hi Drago thanks for the vid
A question please?
If increased attack % will buff a commanders nuke, does increased defence % buff a commanders shield ?
If that is correct then presumably increasing health % will buff a commanders healing ?
From what I’ve heard health buffs the shield and heal but not 100%
Interesting video. So the premise here is that since health is less abundant, it is more valuable if giving the same stat % as defense. Now here is an example of how one makes the good decision. I’m focused on archers at the moment, and the golden age sword gives 8% defense while heart of the saint gives 6% health for archers. Would you say the 6% health stat is more valuable than 8% defense given what you say in this video?
I would test for confirmation but I always try to go with the higher stat
great Video Drago . What do you think of the new skin for cav health ?
I want for Attila rallies.
@@Dragothien Yea Thanks Drago. That was my first thought when i saw the skin . Keep the great content you are the best
Constantin? 40 health bonus ✌️🙂Is it a good choice?
definitely
one reason why Constantine Charles is so good, 60% bonus between the 2 of them
Problem with consantine is besides flag def he's not very usefull
Overall I really like Constantine, in ark as a garrison, open field he provides really nice support and in Canyon he is a solid tank option (usually pair him with Joan)
@@keith4776 yeah he's a good debuffer but there aren't many people in the position to use a debuffer and he's absolutely horrible in 1v1s
Amazing content.. thank you for the knowledge🍻
So if i have more health stats.. will possible receive less severely wounded .. is that right ?
somewhat, but I've noticed slightly vs severely wounded are most effected by damage type (skill vs. normal/counterattack damage)
I'm still so confused, from what I understand its better to have more health. I did multiple tests with Rich+Alex vs Alex+YSG and I swapped some equipment on my Richard. For some reason, +4 Defence always did better than +5 Health. I did more severely wounded and had less severely wounded with the +4 Defence.
Those commanders have a lot of skills that proc, so testing with them will be in reliable.
been contemplating going for a 5/5/5/1 constantine (main) + max wu. Looking for a good defensive pair to hold structures
It’s not bad. Constantine/Charles and vice versa works great against Attila. Wu/Saladin or ysg works great against nukers
hello, i dont speak english, but i understand a little for comments.. If i want to be infantry i must to focus on health > defense > attack ??? thanks !
Yes if you want tankiness
That was a pretty good content , i wal looking for something goes in deep like that , Appreciating
I have a question my friend , i'm focused in infantry , if i changed to france to get these axemen health states + the health buff from the Civ. , knowing that i've Richard (5511) and Mehmed (5211) , now i think i got defense with richard , extra health and the nuke damage with Mehmed , what do you think Buddy ?
Would you prefer this scenario over rome and japan ?
Please reply if you have time
It would be fine. Like in the which infantry civ to pick video I did, if you're going to be fighting for awhile I'd pick france, if you're doing just ark or small skirmish, rome
@@Dragothien Thanks Brother
Health is hp, hp affects how much dmg u do so early dmg stays stronger. Def is good for swarms
Hey Drago, do you think it's better to craft Eternal Night for the guaranteed extra 4% defense or try to special talented Karuak's Humility? Only have 2 blueprints of Karuak's and is it even worth to spend that many materials for the extra 4% guaranteed stat. Thanks!
If you spend for materials in some way go for eternal night
@@Dragothien I’m a super low spender so the only mats I got from spending is from the Lucerne scroll.
This awesome thank you!
Yes, Health is the best stat because it is the lowest in three.
If attack stat and troop capacity increase skill damage then going for attack buff first, health buff second for full skill tree commander best???
For tank march, health buff first, defense second??? 🤔🤔🤔🧐🧐🧐
Yes
Which meta do you recommend in terms of least costly in Bills, Dragothien, thx
skill damage cav
That what video I wnt to watch from 500day how it works... Nice video
Def10% cav skin or health10% cav skin? Which one is the better choice in ur opinion?
I like the health one
The formula is the same as other games... just take a look, apply it’s and do the math. It’s the same. Atk x troops / defs - health.
(DEF - Health)?
What equipment should I put on my moto n cc I'm Germany city...health defense or attack equipment ..
Vanguard set for weapon and legs. Health chest and attack gloves and helm I believe.
Thank you 🤗🤗
Have listened to this video twice. I focus mainly on infantry at the moment. As per this video france is the best civ for infantry right? Coz the base stat of throwing axemen is the best health base plus 3% troop health bonus. And i believe you are correct because, health buffs are really scarce..
Pls reply if u r free and can 😍😍
For prolonged fighting I'd say yes
That's what i understood. As you have rightly mentioned, obtaining health buffs is a tough task. Infantry tree, if maxed out offers 13% health bonus i think. Many thanks for developing these vids 😍
Glad to help
Nice video
So for Archers Attack is better
Then Britain Better than Ottoman? for archers
use ottoman when you have 5 skill damage armies on the field. archers use all the different stats, it depends on what you want their role to be.
So what should i use if im an infan player? Health or def?
both are good, but if you have a rune to pick, i'd go health
Hi brother's how are you? I support you
doing well bud, thx!
@@Dragothien ok brother good luck I follow every clips
Actually there is :) a formula with computations
I thought health was superior beyond the fact that you can't stack it as much. I thought it acted kind of like a troop capacity bonus where it buffs all the difference aspects of fight. So if you have say 5000 health points and a 10% health rune. You then have 5500 health points. Wouldn't health then not buff your defense and attack given you have a larger pool of health to draw from and fight with when in battle?
Depends on if the calculation adds it to the atk number.
Yeah hard to know. I think of health like an umbrella above attack and def which enhances both. The healthier you are the better att and def you have. Makes sense in my mind anyway lol. Keep up the great work man I love your vids! :)
Is takeda 4th skill will stack with saladin 3rd skill (35% skill damage reduction and 45%counter damage reduction and 25%normal attack reduction)...? One of the best videos for this game 👍🙌🙌🙌
Yessir it does. Both are passive.
@@Dragothien that's so powerful 😬🔥🐎🔥
How you got +299 attack bonus in cavs? I got max tech but mine is +226
I’d have to add them all up, but could be combination of shrines, altars, crusader fort, alliance tech, personal tech, civ troop etc
wow! been asking for this a while. now i also got this question - how much buff is given to archers against infantry (or cavs against archers and so on,,) my epic archers gets defeated against legendary infantry . so understanding this wil conprehend lot of issues
epic vs. legendary will almost always lose, but I don't have a specific calculation for that. Generally heavy skill damage is needed to take out any legendary infantry, especially with guan, alex, or Richard involved
@@Dragothien i understand atak/def/H in the following way- say atak is 100 def 100 and health 100- and say we fight 1 troop vs 1 troop then this one troop needs 200 atak to take down 100 defense and 100 health...for more troops its simple addition i believe...whats unknown is buff for counter armies and how nuke, heal and shield factor works. someone told me 1000 damage factor does 2.5 times atak...video more info on this helps
a lot of the information you just asked for requires the formula that only the developers know. All I can do is show what I have experienced in fighting and testing for over a year and a half in this game through first gen commanders to these most recent ones. maybe the formula will leak and I can really get deep into it, but until then, this is what we have :)
@@Dragothien thanks a lot. but keep digging on it ;)
In how far has this been tested? I ran test myself for City skins once i tried infantry def hp and atk wich in def and hp where very close(atk was horrible) using the def skin got me to the fewer sev wounded but also fewer kills that being said I'll try and do my own research I've been wondering if stacking into 1 stat was the best for a while now
I’ve seen marches stay alive longer when I stacked as much health as I could since def buffs are so prevalent.
I'll test stuff myself see in how far this is effective very insightful tho I've been wondering if stacking all in def was the best thing
Look at it this way. Is 5% less damage in 100 hp better than the same mitigation on 40 extra hp. I think the mitigation has diminishing returns the higher you raise def while not raising hp
I was always wondering what's more valuable: defense or health. And I was always trying to buff bonuses for those stats that have more stat numbers coz it will give more in total . Did you test it with difference armies (cavs,inf,arch)?
And thx for the video!
I have over time but nothing side by side. Always noticed more tankiness more health I added to anything.
For 1 inf march ex alex main and yi sup: 5% health or 7% defense is better?? Pls tell me
I always go for the higher stat, so def
Dragothien Gaming tks !
Dragothien Gaming but 5 health and 5 defense=> will be health first?
We have literary the same stats bc maxed out Tech and Allianz tech but why in the hell you have 40 more points in attack and almost 20 in every other as me? I don't get it.
I'm Byzantium with 78 Million power and my stats for Cataphract are:
Attack: 221 + 256
Defense 222 + 224
Health 216 +131
Civ Bonus is 5% more Health for Cav
I didn't have runes or Buffs active
could be shrines altars, and I think I had the kvk buffs in this too.
@@Dragothien Could be but the difference is tremendous isn't it - I need all the altars haha
Im archer type.. health or defence?? Pls help me.. thank you..
I like health for archers
So is the Elite Axemen better than the Elite legionary?
The legionaries are a bit better because of their base stats it seems
You saying that health is important just as defense. And the Axemen have 10 more health than legionnaires. So if using axemen, will it even the defense and health stats more out for you infantry? Right now I have 100% defense and 58% for my infantry. Would it be good to change to axemen then?
If you put one axemen against one legionnaire I think that would be the likely outcome, but you have to look at the unit and it’s civ bonuses together.
What i dont understand. Is the theoretical HP of your troops is the marches troop capacity. Increasing your HP doesn't increase the troop capacity. So does this mean using HP runes and gear lowers the incoming white damage instead?
This is where the calculation would be nice. I’m assuming based off testing that there is another modifier to extend what 1 troop life is against the atk of the opponent
Fantastic thank you. So if I understood you correctly theres a DR on stats so a balance of stats beats stat stacking. Like end tier wow stats( im sure u said you played wow).
E.G For Constantine who already has high hp. Is it best to choose gear with att and def instead?
Thanks for the video. i always wonder about these.. and you might be the first one to cover this
Is there no boost to attack from health as well?
I understand health as a bonus for both attack and defense
It boost them both not only defence..the healthier your troops the more damage they can inflict
indirectly yes
Just so you know drago stats are a lot higher because he is in kvk. I was so confused why your stats were so much higher
those accounts aren't in kvk
@@Dragothien how is it possible +299 attack on cavalry?
My t5 legionary only +221 and +241 defense
i'd have to go back in and readd everything up
health is not always the best stat. In a 1v1 yes it will almost always be.
Please keep in mind it does not benefit as much as attack when you are attacking an enemy that is not attacking you back which happens a lot! in real game application.
I watched the video on diminishing returns as well and its really the same for every mmo that has ever been created. Stats need to add up linearly (additive) because if it’s multiplicative it will be exponential. Then everyone would just stack up on one stat which makes for a dumb game. Everyone will either be super tanky and do no damage or super high damage and die quickly.
Also commander skills make a huge difference in choosing a stat. Ex: Why would you stack more Health with a richard charles who does so little damage. Nobody targets them in the field because they are already tanky and lowwww damage. You need to give them attack.
In short please stop telling everyone health is the best stat, because it not always is. Its not that simple. So many ROK users are buying this false information.
i disagree with a few things. Generally health is the best stat, because as you stated it is additive and will have better value when added to a build as it is harder to find in the wild. (buff cards, kingdom buffs, etc.)
I target richard/charles all the time, as they melt to skill damage pairings. Adding attack to richard/charles is like giving water to someone with a baby squirt gun. yah its more damage, but how much really..
I'll keep telling everyone what I believe to be right based on my experience in the game and reporting/stats that I've seen. When someone can come up with something practically and logistically better with proper documentation to back it up, I can update accordingly.
Thanks.
"Defense is the best offense" I applied this concept on playing games like basketball/tennis. In ROK, this is also my concept. I tend to be defense oriented person. This is really very helpful. Thank you so much!
Very welcome and I agree!
Dude... Honestly what you said I only uderstand that Health and Defense are the same. Both keep you from getting less attack. You don't increase the ammount of attacks you can take because the white number depends on the ammount of troops you brought and the ammount you lose depends on both your enemy's attack and your defense.
Sorry but your explanation made no sense for me.
Health is the total hp pool. Defense reduces the damage incoming to that pool. Can’t say it any simpler :)
Health and Defense has the same effect. However, there is this thing call diminishing returns when the more you stack the same stat additively. For example, extra +5% def when you have 200% defense has less impact than +5% def when you only have 100% defense. Since the game has a lot more sources of defense boosting, choosing to boost health when you have the choice will result in stronger troop.
If they’re the same thing that statement makes no sense. That being said I’ve tested health against defense and gotten different results with same controls
@@Dragothien They are the same, formula wise. Will have the same result if we have same amount of defense and health but we don't normally. Someone posted the formula under shinchi's video, you can take a look.
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