Camry Misfire Root Cause! Stop Throwing Parts!
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- čas přidán 10. 01. 2024
- This 2009 Toyota Camry came in with a customer concern of a misfire code that keeps coming back and they say while you drive it under loads you could feel the misfire. Let's get to the bottom of this misfire concern the correct way!
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#topdon #diagnostics #Picoscope #autorepair - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Its a joy to see a professional like you at work!
Thanks for sharing your amazing videos!
Thanks Danny!
I work also as at Automotive technical and learn alot from both of you . thanks for ur videos
@@st-jf9hv Danny is an excellent teacher. His understanding of systems operations is second to none.
@@autodiagyt Attracting the attention of one of the masters! NICE!
Me too I fallow both of your guys .
Thank you for teaching me guys
Very nice, thanks. That borescope looks great.
The wiring on the coils - whoever did that and thought it was fine - we don't need people like that working on vehicles.
Hope Scotty Kilmer doesn’t see this
😂
😂
😅😅
😂
Why?
All excellent equipment aside. It all boils down to what I was taught way back compression test , leak down test win the day 🔬🔧
Cool case Jake! Thanks for sharing it with us, i have 3 points regarding this case:
1 on Toyotas if you plug in almost any scanner there's a function in the ECM either in actuation test or special function named "compression test" which disables spark & fuel injection
2 i use a simpler teslong boroscope and i use that thing A LOT it's awesome
3 i almost never get conclusive data from pulse sensors, too many variables 😵💫
I have a First Look brand pulse sensor and I find it’s to sensitive.
@@autodiagyt i live in iraq, so i mostly have to make my own stuff, my pulse sensor be it a little ugly is very good, but there are too many variables affecting that thing especially when hooked up to an intake manifold, you'd also have to block the pcv hose which is not doable on some cars. I have a DIY transducer too, that one is a much more useful tool since it gives you actual pressure, you can decipher the variables. I could see the theory, and i believe it could be very useful, but personally i have never been able to use it as conclusive evidence when it comes to hooking that thing up to an intake manifold 😐.
Some of the bumps in the coolant pressure waveform may be normal just from the water pump circulating and creating pulses of flow. South main auto has a cool video from a few years ago where he put his wps on the radiator cap, measuring actual pressure. Everytime the bad cylinder came up on compression, the pressure rose. The waveform looked like a staircase, was very cool! I immediately thought of that video as you released the cap and realized the coolant system was under pressure.
I’ve had one that I used the wps on an got a staircase. That was a cool capture also.
Great diagnosis. I'm sure with that coolant leak it was using coolant and probably smelled of burnt coolant out the tail pipe. Also explains the misfires on startup. Hard to say if the car is worth the cost of repairs though...
Awesome video. Customer states "Oh I have been adding a gallon of antifreeze a week"
No mention of it lol
Jake excellent video. The graphics were superb . Thanks for sharing all of the steps in your diagnostic process. Probably one of the best videos on line. You would be one terrific instructor . Thanks for sharing . 👍Artie
Glad you enjoyed it!
I agree
Nice video and great use of the Topdon scope!!
Awesome video Jake. Lots of great tools used in this video, i like that boroscope, I’ll need to upgrade mine now….thanks lol.
Definitely a coolant leak! Love that borescope!
Thanks for coaching us Jake ! Super helpful !! Have a fantastic weekend mate 👊🏼 .
That was fun to watch! Nice work as usual!
I really enjoyed this case study Jake!
I had a feeling when the adjacent cylinders were misfiring that it would end up like this. Great video
I thought the same thing.
Great job Jake. A classic example of how many top quality tools we need to do our job properly. How many times do we do diagnosis after 'someone else' has had a shot at it. Great thinking process.
You are a better man than me....I would have had to cover that spaghetti mess of wiring before I continued. It would have driven me insane. How could they have felt that it was OK to leave it like that?
Hello, after you block the intake, the compression starts to fade out because of building a vacuum in the intake manifold. Less air in the cylinder, less compression in the cylinder. Nice job. Like your videos.
Great video, Jake! I have that same exact borescope. I bought another one for a tech at work and then another tech saw it and bought one and then his dad saw it and bought two. So yeah, huge fan myself. I got a P0299 code (turbo underboost condition) on a Chevy cobalt and so I decided to check out the wastegate valve and realized the O2 sensor was right next to the turbo so I took out the O2 sensor and was able to snake my scope in there and immediately saw a crack in the seat of the wastegate valve. I was pretty proud of myself that day, because, the other techs had already spent three hours trying to diagnose it.
Gold information right here. Thanks again Jake. God bless.
This was excellent. As soon as you put that borescope into the wet cylinder I said out loud “ that’s coolant “ almost in unison with you . I also haven’t had much luck with a pulse sensor in the radiator. I was so glad to see such a good capture of that . I’ve had a a few pentastar engines that hydrolocked and didn’t pick it up on the pulse sensor. Great job Jake thank you .
Good information and thought process as always thanks for sharing.
The little bumps on top and bottom is valve overlap. The opening and closing of the valves
Awesome diagnosis. The low reading cylinders being adjacent (2 and 3) had we wondering about a head gasket. Also, that final trace is about as definitive as it gets.
great video content Jake, love these sort of videos , great your using another scope too , thanks man
Thanks for the thorough explanation and demonstration 👍👍
Excellent video Jake!
Thank you sir, I really enjoyed this video I had a sneaky suspicion from the beginning of the video that it was going to be a head gasket problem, and I was right. But I do love the way that you diagnosis and showed the invaluable tools that you use, and you have showed me new ways to set up scopes thank you very much I can't say that enough!
you go Bernie Jr. Great episode on misfire condition. its not always a coil/ injector issue. coolant probably low enough not to be smoking out exhaust along with the coolant leak outside of engine. scope captures were nice to explain pressure transducer.
Great Video,
Great Conclusion,
Wonderful Logic,
The Auto Detective.
"The Finest Kind"
Thanks
Solid work and video Jake
Great educational and informative video!
That was a great case study Jake. I enjoy seeing you use the Topdon Scope since I have virtually the same Thinkcar one for my Thinktool Pros scanner. I need to use mine more to figure out how to use all of it's features and setups. Teslong borescopes are great. I have the three lens version and they have some awesome clarity. I may have to get that articulating one as it would be very useful in some areas. As soon as I saw the wet plugs, I figured it was a head gasket. The borescope really helped you too verify that.
Two wire CAM to answer your question is for what we call "differential signaling." we do this for error correction. For example, should static/interference affect one wire (causing a parity error), we configure the transever to subtract the signal from the good wire. Thus reconstructing the packet (AKA error correction). Again, thank you for the great videos.
Thanks for these videos. Very helpful, and I have been trying to learn how to use the same scope myself.
I don’t blame you for not wanting to do that repair. You’re on DN enough to know the probability of needing time sert tools for that job. Great video!
Vevor makes an articulating borescope camera for $103 same thing basically. I just received one last week and it works great. Made a different reply where to get it but it disappeared just trying to save everyone some money. These are very useful tools.
Nice video and great diagnosis. I see the previous guy followed the Johnny Cash principle. One part at the time. 😂😂
I was thinking head gasket when I saw the low compression on cylinders two and three. We used to take the hose from the radiator to overflow tank and put it in a bottle with water in it and you can see air bubbles if the head gasket is bad or the cylinder head is cracked.
Maybe we can get Ivan to sponsor you with one of his PHAD pressure transducers. 😜
GREAT detective work, bore scope for the confirmation, nice win.
I've used the two-camera Autel borescope for a while, but the articulating one is awesome and the picture quality on that is great. I'm sold.
That engine has been overheated due to that external leak and blew the head gasket. I wouldn't even try to fix it @ 100K miles. Nice work as usual 👍
BUT ITS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOWN HEAD GASKET PRESSURIZED THE COOLANT CAUSING THE EXTERNAL LEAK
They used every inch of wire that came with the new connectors, what a joy!
Hell of a diag, that was fun!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Excellect follow-through!
Another trick is to fill the radiator to the brim and perform a leak down test on all the cylinders.
Any pressure bleed off will push coolant up and over the top of the rad fill neck.
Cheers Cap'n! 😉👍
looks like the spaghetti has a meatball problem, lol. great instructional/educational video right there. this is one all the kids in tech school need to watch.
You didn‘t have a restriction in the intake with the phoenix oscilloscope, that is why you had more compression
Another awesome video 👊🏻
New.subscriber looking forward to see more of your work
Great video mate , you have a nice way of coming across on camera very watchable , unlike some lol.
Thanks 👍
Excellent diagnosis! You may send me the old borescope once Teslong utilizes your reviewing skills. Please. Stay well.
Thanks for sharing
Excellent diagnostic, Jake! With a few rabbit holes to spice it up :-) Coolant leak and blown head gasket? Doesn't seem good, if it really overheated.
Good decision to send it back to customer after diagnostic.
Pressure in a cylinder is a function of volume change and temperature change, compression cause heat. Speed of the piston is not a factor. The pressure, ergo voltage drop, variances, cylinder to cylinder are due to the varying spring effect of the varying compression pressure in a cylinder aiding the rotation of the crank.
The reason for the declining cylinder pressure,on the in-cylinder captures is the build up of vacuum. I suggest the YT video “compression thoughts from Wilf” for a detailed study.
Another way to do a relative compression is to pull the fuel pump fuse, run the engine to drain the system, then proceed as before.
I never said anything about the speed changing the compression. I was talking about the vacuum pulls on the intake pulse sensor.
Last time I checked for a blown head gasket with a pulse sensor and confirmed a pulse in the system, I 1 at a time left the compression hose screwed in the plug hole and hit it with compressed air while watching the scope. Very effective and conclusive to see its a head gasket when each time you hit it you see the pulse right on the screen.
What was the guy thinking who wired those injector pigtails in? LMBO! Excellent video! Very informative on how to do multiple tests with an oscilloscope and pressure transducers. I suspected a blown head gasket 1st when I noticed that 2 adjacent cylinders were misfiring and the misfires were only on initial start up. When I saw the wet plug and you said it didn't smell much like fuel, I knew what was wrong. I think this could have been diagnosed without a scope but then we wouldn't have learned so much. The bore scope footage is unbelievably good. I'll be looking into getting one of these pronto. Curious to see what the coolant, oil filler cap and oil looked like. Was there steam coming out the exhaust? I think I will be getting the Phoenix scope to go with the other 2 scopes I have. Love that scan tool. Thanks so much for the video and the explanation of AC coupling. It helped me to understand it better.
Hi
For me the best head gasket test is to to put the suspect cylinder on tdc firing and put full shop air into the cylinder.
Then look in the radiator for air bubbles or the level coming up.
Don't use a leakage test the pressure is reduced
Poor maintenance is the key player in this case and lot of diy stuff gone by on this motor 😂..great info jake..cheers
tks good one
Tried and true method, TDC cylinder and put air, a leak should show up in the radiator, if its slow I put a pressure checker and see if it rises.
good diag, ford 4 cyl had the same problem, except you could not just change the head gasket, there is a design flaw in the block, they redesigned the block, you have to change the engine. the long block from ford is cheap from ford only $2100 our cost. Certain years were covered under warranty.
Nice find, also love my teslong.
You've got good handz, and patience, and a great camera~!
Well done maestro....ps..that engine known for stripped head bolts, i just did one on 05 camry
Great bore scope
Another cool video Jake.thanks for sharing.
Learning the tools on a problem engine is alright but sometimes keeping it simple is the win . The head gasket was suspect from the compression test .
I love the cheap Amazon worklight. I get them by the dozen .
I’ve dealt with tight valves in a Scion (Toyota engine) before. Had to measure the lash between the valve lash caps and camshaft and do the math on how much more I needed then ordered caps that gave me the right amount of clearance. Someone had just recently done a head gasket and the machine shop had the valves way too tight causing a rough idle.
Awesome
Looking forward to a video with the WPS on the topdon scope. Would like to see the detail it produces. I have the launch scope which is the same thing but do not have a WPS. Thanks for the videos.
Very smart thinking and use the same tests on my Micsig. It's all about proof and no mistakes were made.
Ok I guess everything is possible but since I always make 2 tests with different type of equippment it has never happend to me yet. From now on I will pay special attention to possible misinterpretation.
I am an engineer and work mostly on Jaguar engines using the Pico and I am very happy with it.
Have you checked the blinker fluid level? I know it may be dangerous but could you repin the module front sensors to rear sensors and see if code moves to front sensors not matching ? If that makes sense
I am commenting while watching. You should experiment with shorter rubber hoses on your vacuum transducer, you can pick up more details in your waveform to include specific valve timing/adjustment parameters. The longer the hose, the more chance of feedback/echo/softening which will skew the waveform, yours is still pretty fair. There are other parameters to be aware of based on the type of transducer that you use such as a Delta sensor and what causes a hump in the waveform at a specific location/time. What I call ATM or atmosphere pressure will cause a hump on the rising and falling edge of the wave. As with anything, experience and deep study of the waveform will eventually make all aspects more understandable. Also remember that the speed of the piston travel is different at all angles with the fasted travel around the 90* area so the speed of piston travel is seen in the angles of the rising and falling edges of the waveform from left to right AKA time/speed on the scope screen. Overall height of the tallest peak, exhaust valve closing (EVC) will affect the depth of the vacuum pull so a slight valve adjustment/wear issue can be seen as well. Many more details in the waveform can be evaluated. On your channel 3 indicator, 0v @1650 time stamp, look on that level and you will see a hump along that level which is what I call ATM, and your Delta sensor is reacting to this phenomenon which is normal and can be useful. For me, when #2 & #3 show a problem, I am going to be concerned about a head gasket issue as the cylinders are physically side by side, need to wait and see some of your testing later in the video. Much appreciate your style of increasing the use of test equipment but in the real world, Bernie Thompson style, all 4 channels ought to be used on the very first go around to save the customer money on time and to shorten this long video LOL. You then mention the crank speed making a difference in vacuum strength, this is where measuring the timing between spikes comes into play and you are correct. ISNT your battery charger/maintainer CLEAN DC which is a requirement for programming? You don't need adjustable valves to have valve timing/adjustment problems. Exhaust valves (tight valves) beat themselves into the seats and camlobes get worn and Toyota valve buckets get worn (loose valves), etc. You are also blocking off the intake skewing your readings so this test is not exactly valid. Is BOSCH the proper plug for a Toyota, people like to throw in cheap but branded Iridium or Platinum??? Once I assumed there might be a blown head gasket, I am going to fill the cooling system and crank the engine with the radiator cap off to see if any coolant volcano happens, this first coolant test will not include the scope. Thanks for all your case studies, Since you are one of the best YT Channels (DiagnoseDan is a fan also, and I am the MOD on his FB Group), it is fine to do the long drawn-out procedures, it would be nice to charge the customer the direct route IMHO. Wet plugs with no fuel injection, hmmmm.
Hello sir .
This is my second time watching this video and this time I like it more .
Question Mr Jake what’s the model of you pico ? 4824A?
Thank you sir
4425a
Thank you so much
Get rid of those Boush plugs and go with NGK or Denso.
Looks like your Delta sensor inverted they should go north first, then south. Great video tho nice job
It's not inverted
Man, I would not be able to sleep at night if I left such a mess with the wires... What happened to a little pride in your work???
I agree. I had to clean it up a little bit before returning it to the customer. Picture is at the end of the video
@@autodiagyt I noticed that... That shows what a good guy you are, but I bet you were happy to see that thing leave your shop...LOL
I almost had a heart attack when I saw that😊
Hi
Tech stream has an active test for compression test .
You can stop injection with this active test to do the relative compression test.
Very easy on the v6 s when you can't get to the rear injectors
I think I seen that in the topdon as well. I just have a hard time trusting scan tools to correctly identify cylinders. Seen to many fords tell me the wrong cylinder is low compression or test good but really it's not when compared to a RC scope test.
@@autodiagyt
Hi
I still use Pico to do the test ,I just use the scan tool active test to cut the fuel on cranking because there is no clear flood.
Now did the coolant leak cause low coolant level overheating the engine causing the head gasket to blow
Why was the valve timing off 10 deg. from one cylinder to the other? Can the blown gasket skew the pressure transducer or is there a reason for the timing to be different between cylinders?
I’m not really sure why I had the different valve timing honestly.
Thats a dope borescope, which brand is that if you dont mind sharing?
Teslong. The 2 main ones I use are linked in my Amazon store in the description.
Grasias
Cool vid, Might have missed it by why the different EVO events?
Evo doesn’t change compression. I’m still not sure why the change unless the oil pressure got high enough for it to phase the cam.
Thanks for the reply!
I suspect the noise you were seeing on your scope was from the battery maintainer. When you cranked the engine, it automatically switched on to recharge he battery. When it was charged, it switched to standby (so it was clean for the next round).
No it was definitely from one of my other leads. Still not sure what was going on but it had to be from something there was connected to or inducing.
Hello Mr Jake thanks for teaching me.
Borescope make it again.
Do you have the model # pls ?
Thank you sir
Amazon link in the description
Mr Jake just out of curiosity do you think that my thinkcar scanner will work with the phoenix smart osiloscope.
No money to buy the whole with the topdon scanner 😂
WHEN THE COMPRESSION WAS HIGHER AT THE FIRST 3 ROTATIONS THEN SLOWLY LOWERED ITSELF I WAS THINKING PISTON RINGS, AND OIL LEAKING FROM VALVES STEMS
I’m thinking it’s a result of how I had the intake restricted. Intake pulling into more and more vacuum
very interesting indeed . follow the data . mind you when you took those plugs out i was thinking along the lines of a head gasket issue . how amazing was that with the boar scope and that one looks excellent great quality and clarity. but the scope work is what done it for me i love those captures . i find myself scoping my own car just to see what the capture of stuff looks like 🤣🤣🤣🤣 man i need to get out more
You got to know what good looks like to spot bad!
My mouth dropped open when you showed that mess of wires under the engine cover. My mouth hardly EVER drops open.
Yeah I had to clean it up a little bit.
Probably a lot of the interference on the scope , was coming from the Antenna that the previous repairs had produced, and then laid on top of the coils.
😂😂😂
That's a great Pico capture towards the end Jake. Money shot... Nice work!
I am curious if head was cracked?
the tech who worked on this would be gone.
Crazy case Jake.
At first I did tough it will be a blown head gasket.. diagnostic!
Good thing u caught it!
I looked up the spec for the top Don scope and it’s 8 bit compared to the 12bit pico. It seems to be able to have sufficient resolution to do want we generally need to do with a scope. What do you think the biggest challenge would be for the 8 bit. Great video, keep them coming👍!
So far I’ve not noticed to much difference in the quality of the captures. The biggest advantage the pico has is the buffered waveform pages. I can say this scope is drastically better than the snapon and so far with it being half the price of a pico I’m happy with it.
@@autodiagytexactly what I wanted to know. It seems to be a bit easier to use than the pico. I'm going with the TOPDON scope for my next step up.
Jake..deep down inside I know you really wanted to reach for the pico. Spaghetti indeed. What will happen when those wires get baked in the engine heat.
I really didn’t want to honestly it’s a hassle to get it all out of my van. The topdon scope has been doing really good for me so far. I honestly don’t think the issue I was having had anything to do with the topdon scope so when I get time I’m gonna hook the wps back up to it and compare it with a pico. I think it’s gonna be very similar.
Part 2: Camry head gasket replacement 😊
Heck no lol part 2 will be when it comes back with timing codes after they do the head gasket lol
@@autodiagyt xD
What pressure transducer is that? I'm looking for one that's a little more cost friendly.
It's a pico wps500. It's not cheap but it's good. Ivan at Pine Hollow makes pressure transducers that are good and not to costly
@@autodiagyt I also watch him regularly. Thank you and I'll look into it! Thank you for explaining the setup process with the scope leads in this video. Very very helpful!
I like spaghetti on my plate not my car lmao 🤣 ❤
what is make and model of the borescope.
Amazon link in the description
maybe that coil wiring is picking up some interference into the grounds?
I’m thinking how I had the coil arching to a stud on the block was causing it to happen but I’m not sure why it cleared up with unhooking the leads from the pico.
Old school methods just put a balloon or a rubber shop glove over the radiator cap hole start the engine and see if the balloon blows up=bad head gasket also. easy