NEW T'au Empire Codex Review with Faction Expert Richard Siegler - Competitive Warhammer 40k
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
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Join Richard Siegler, one of the foremost experts on T'au Empire in the World, for his thoughts on the new T'au Empire Codex! Richard is joined by Jack Harpster who has dabbled with T'au in the past, winning the Cherokee Open and playing them at the World Team Championships! Find out what the most competitive options are in this complete breakdown of the matched play rules!
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0:00 Intro
7:50 Army Rule
10:44 Drones
11:29 Detachments
11:50 Kauyon - Detachment Rule
15:46 Kauyon - Enhancements
18:08 Kauyon - Stratagems
26:30 Kauyon - Thoughts
28:10 Mont'ka - Detachment Rule
30:10 Mont'ka - Enhancements
37:53 Mont'ka - Stratagems
45:22 Mont'ka - Thoughts
46:30 Retaliation Cadre - Detachment Rule
49:50 Retaliation Cadre - Enhancements
54:48 Retaliation Cadre - Stratagems
1:03:58 Retaliation Cadre - Thoughts
1:06:36 Kroot Hunting Pack - Detachment Rule
1:10:50 Kroot Hunting Pack - Enhancements
1:14:56 Kroot Hunting Pack - Stratagems
1:19:37 Kroot Hunting Pack - Thoughts
1:22:13 Datasheets
1:22:30 Commander Shadowsun
1:22:41 Commander Farsight
1:23:48 Commanders
1:26:47 Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal, Darkstrider
1:27:00 Aun'va, Aun'shi
1:27:30 Strike Team
1:28:03 Breacher Team
1:28:49 Crisis Battlesuits
1:29:54 Sunforge Crisis Suits
1:33:47 Fireknife Crisis Suits
1:35:12 Starscythe Crisis Suits
1:40:15 Stealth Suits
1:41:52 Ghostkeel
1:44:17 Pathfinder Team
1:44:38 Firesight Team
1:45:00 Vespid Stingwings
1:45:45 Kroot Trail Shaper
1:47:24 Kroot War Shaper
1:50:36 Kroot Flesh Shaper
1:52:10 Kroot Lone-Spear
1:56:43 Kroot Carnivore
1:57:46 Krootox Riders
2:00:26 Krootox Rampager
2:04:51 Kroot Hounds
2:05:10 Kroot Farstalkers
2:07:20 Piranha, Broadsides
2:07:51 Riptides
2:09:33 Hammerhead
2:09:49 Skyray Gunship
2:10:40 Devilfish, Planes, Stormsurge, Tidewall
2:11:00 Closing Thoughts
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#ADWIP - Hry
If you want even more T'au content from us, please check out our War Room platform (or signup here for the gold tier membership option) and our 3-day free trial over at thewarroom.vhx.tv to access 3 new T'au Codex videos: one Battle Report and two list analysis videos, one for Mont'Ka and one for Retaliation Cadre!
thewarroom.vhx.tv/videos/montka-list-review
thewarroom.vhx.tv/videos/retaliation-cadre-list-review
thewarroom.vhx.tv/videos/tau-vs-um
czcams.com/video/nEBHEoCnEWE/video.html
czcams.com/video/tF8btdzFt-I/video.html
czcams.com/video/edGqQoeTivc/video.html
Somebuffs I want
Starscyhe gaining attacks/rapid fire
Fireknife gaining range or attacks
Broadside change ability to 4+invuln or some damage
Railguns Gain anti vehicle
I think it would be fun to have a melee crisis
at 31:10 you talk about the Strike Swiftly stratagem being used on Breachers inside Devilfish.
RAW under the 'Embarked Units' section it states that "Units embarked within a Transport do not count as being on the battlefield for any rules purposes" -
To my mind this would mean that you can't utilise this ability for a fireblade inside the Devilfish because it's technically not on the battlefield so nothing can be within 6" of it, and you would have to use this ability from a leader with the enhancement not inside the transport. That or the breacher squad and character with enhancement would have to start the game outside the transport?
Can you confirm if I've missed something or you have extra/different interpretations - because at the minute, I believe the way you're intending this rul to work by putting breacherfish aggressively up the board doesn't work
yep tau comment, for the current previous play style of tau not bieng liked valid, grey knights bieng junk for feeling not like grey knights... still good huh oh yea no one wants to play gk right now ;) wow i guess the public has spoken... looking forward to the new gk codex this ones a dumpster fire.
@@UrielVentris1984 what does this even mean? Use readable sentences
Richard giggling uncontrollably for the entire Kroot section made this a worthwhile watch even for someone who hasn't played a game of 40k in over a year.
1:05:03 “your opponent starts coming in your face” Jack what kind of game are you playing with your opponent?
Let's go jack, 1v1 me bro!
This is why i watch art of war before any other channel. These guys know exactly how much use you can get out of an army. Ever since I got the tyranid codex I’ve been trying to play like John Lennon (obviously nowhere near his standard) but understanding what units in the army he likes and how he uses them to play the game better. Very excited for tau and the Kroot detachment honestly
but sadly some of their takes only work with high skillset (though it's not their fail :P )
@@eugenax9345 yeah definitely I wouldn’t watch their videos if i was looking to be a casual 40K gamer who likes narratives etc they are very tournament focused
I think the kroot detachment would work very well with x3 skyray, Darkstrider (for double 12" deny) and 1 pathfinders for damage and durability. You have pathfinders to spot but skyrays run pretty well unsupported due to Twin linked and re roll rule. Then fill out the rest with Kroot!!!
@@oscarluckin1625I think his point is most people aren't good enough to take advantage of their advice.
Imagine all the people, playing Tau as good as John Lennon
One thing that’s interesting about these codex releases - at the beginning of the promos for 10th, GW talked about strategems that wouldn’t be locked to specific detachments if it didn’t make sense for them to be (like Tau move-shoot-move), but really it’s only applied to Armour of Contempt? They just took MSM away from Kauyon who really needs it early game for survival? 🤔
I like the new addition of slides which go over important changes. Keep up the great work guys
The montka “woopsie” could be very intentional seeing as gun drones have assault and you can no longer take double shield drone on crisis suits.
I'm writing this before watching the hole thing.
I'm really happy to see content creators excited about the new book. I had just made my Tau list for a crusade game my friends were doing online and then immediately this book comes out and half of my list is nerfed. Lol i had never played Tau before so i was like "ok let's see how this stuff works." I wasn't keeping up with the release schedule the books because I'm pretty new. This makes me excited to see what stuff is better now so i can try new things.
Ty for the positivity. 😁
Very excited for Montka! 17” move Missilesides!
Other reviews I watched all cried and said it was a bad codex, glad I always watch art of war for a thorough review
I am very excited for the codex.
I think that having 4 detachments which are all interesting, useful, and different is much better than having 5, 7 or even 10 detachments that are pretty bad outside of 2 of them.
I also think that the change on crisis suits is future proof, since now they adjust the point value per weapon loadout, instead of missiles having to pay the premium for CIBs, for example.
I am not much into Kroot, but I am happy for people who like them, as now they are not the datasheets that you automatically skip because they were useless.
We have detachments for alpha strike, late game, close quarters, and melee. There is something for everyone who is open minded.
4 interesting and useful detachments? We'll get 2 (like in the example you gave). Mont'ka and Retaliation Cadre. Kauyon is still DoA (really as long as they are stuck in this "3-5" mentality Kauyon will suck) and the Kroot Detachment is strong, but the datasheets are so bad that it may as well be terrible itself so they'll fix it faster^^.
The Crisis point is a bit up for debate. Generally I agree, but the limit in secondary gear (only sunforged having the invuln) really limits how good the other 2 datasheets are. Like the anti infantry ones should be decent when they go to like 120p, but the missile/plasma ones are just bad datasheets and need to be ludicrously cheap to make up for that.
Kroot datasheets are still useless outside of 1 unit of Carnivores to sticky objectives. They are terrible. If they are cheap you can at least play them potentially, but then they are still chaff in essence.
Kroot honestly need a dataslate that just gives AP buffs across the board for melee and some AP buff for units like riders and and the warshapers bow.
Thank you Jack and Richard. Very much appreciate the level headed response and analysis. I'm looking forward to Retaliation Cadre and Mont'Ka. Hopefully we'll see a battle on the table with the new T'au codex soon!
Awesome, thank you for the review!
Hell yeah. I‘ve waited so long for this. The greater good is back and thanks to you guys. Nice content. Go ahead with stuff like that
TTT has a Tau v Orks BR up. The Tau look to be lots of fun.
Thank you for this video and for not giving in to the whole "OMG ruined 4ever" doom and gloom. I sold off my original Tau collection a few years ago, but I might just give them another go. Cheers!
Excellent review video! Thanks for the info!
Multi weapon coldstars leading a starsythe in Retaliation is very interesting. CIBs becoming S9 AP4 D2, Missiles become S8 AP3 D2, HOB becomes S6 AP2 D1 and ABF becomes S4 AP2 D1 within 6". Thats a very cool series of profiles. I know its within 6 but still excellent variation and using the starscythe ability
important to note, they can only take 1 CiB, not 4 anymore
I'm pretty sad that Kauyon is pretty bad, but I love Mont'ka and the mechs, so that's great.
I noticed that you guys didn't mention the significance of lethal hits on breachers with full hit rerolls from tetras and +1 ap from focused fire in montka. 2 breacher teams with fireblades does 12 wounds against a 2+ save enemy unit after its armour save just from the lethals and then plus any natural wounds. Tetras in montka are now auto include 3 units.
Oh don't you worry the Mont''Ka battle report next week has them in action!
Sounds disgusting yeah breachers are the way to go now
@@derekbutts2660I mean ... they already were. They just got better^^
I'm excited!
Thanks for awsome content!
Think Mont'ka and Retaliation gonna be real strong. I don't like the round limits with Kauyon and Mont'ka, so i'm leaning against Retaliation Cadre personally. Looking forward to smashing my Crisis suits, Ghostkeels and Riptides forward and seeing my opponents rolling their eyes and getting annoyed when I Strike and fa.... I mean Torchstar gambit every round for 1 CP!
Glad for your takes guys. I think there's a lot of poor interpretations of these rules out there and you're really helping me NOT underestimate the faction. Good stuff.
I'm interested to see how the Kroot detachment plays with some Skyrays and maybe a Sunforge unit thrown in for anti-tank support. It feels like legitimately good horde staying power that plays primaries well, it's just a "majority Kroot" army instead of an "all Kroot" army.
I think the key for the Kroot Detachment is that you don't have to run it as pure kroot. Sure other Tau units are not buffed by it but a combination of Kroot the push forward and overwhelm objectives by sheer number while a selection of Tau units that don't really require support (like Hammerheads, Riptides, Breachers or Skyrays) provide the actual damage output.
Thanks Jack and Seigs
Best review I’ve seen well done guys
Ultimate example of negative response to a berserk codex was the freakout at the 5th edition CSM codex. Far and away the strongest, held the title for a year or more, and every single player you met using it was whining about it. Eldar syndrome.
I was thinking: Enforcer + unit with flamers + shortened blade. Enjoy the s5 , ap-1 flamers
That’s just your normal sisters of battle flamers. Their flamers have “munitorum” in their names and it means they have -1AP.
We’ll need to see the actual points for the new Kroot, but I do feel like there’s something there with using them along side the Tau.
I see something going on with the Kroot being better screeners to keep stealth suit spotters alive longer. Use the many Tau options for big guns as the serious damage dealers.
It still probably wouldn’t be as good as the other two detachments, but those are really good. I think the Kroot detachment has a place that can work though, possibly as a third place option… once the prices of the Kroot are realistic anyway.
Redeploy enhancement could be used to string out pathfinders or stealthsuits in the center if you know your opponent has some good infiltrators and then redeploy back to safety after everything is set up and your opponent couldn’t go where they wanted too. Maybe not every game, but something to think about if you have some extra points for an enhancement it could be helpful against infiltrate heavy nids, or move blocking space marines
Yeah that's a solid idea. I wonder if it's worth taking for that alone in a tournament where it might never come up. May just be better to run 2 pathfinders to screen out infiltrators and serve as general screens / forward deploy units.
Feels a bit wasteful since the unit can screen out and then scout backwards to be safer anyway.
@@cruelmoleif you have extra points though, or 3 stealth suit teams and no pathfinders. Not saying it will always come up, but if you got some points free that you don’t know what to do with could be something you could do to help against infiltrator heavy lists
I love Jack's enthusiasm for kroot paired with seigs " holding his tongue" "smile"😂 I hope kroot get the points cut they need, I've had an absolute atrocious 2k kroot list since 9th
Interested in what the guys say about the kroot detachment, i think its good and very tempted to put 180 infantry on the board
Excellent review.
I'm considering a replacement for my CIB/Plasma brick. Sunforges are great for an additional anti tank tool, but don't the volume for medium 2 and 3 wound infantry. While Starscythe looks ok they pale in comparison to the previous CIB/plasma builds. Fireknifes are more expensive and don't have the volume. Breachers and Pathfinders don't do bad, so I may grab an additional unit of each.
I'm also going to miss the quad cib solo commanders as deepstrike pieces. May have to try our some vespid against infantry as Sunforge cover the deepstrike against tanks.
Yeah Breachers with a Fireblade will do the trick for most things. Broadsides aren't terrible either against tough infantry.
The mont'ka thing might be intended to rely on gun drones having assault to activate, keeping it off things like riptides. Just a possibility
I kinda doubt it because it's way too limiting then in what units can really profit from it then.
The Kroot Carnivors seem interesting in Mont'ka with lethal hits and the ability to 3 OC each even if 60 OC is excessive
You guys do the best reviews.
And I should know cause I'm a immortal demon.
im going to make an all battlesuit army. stealtsuits and crisis suits and farsight and some braodsides for the home objective
Yeah great video and man Kroot really feel like they are missing 2-3 units and load kits. Almost no damage and nothing that wants to get hit or anti large. Where is my greater knarloc?! I feel like I am going to run big Kroot army and then tau armor in the Kroot detachment. Side note I didn't even think about how good breachers can be was to busy trying to make Kroot work.
31:15 Fish of Fury are BACK, BABY!!!
I like the new production value. Well done.
Great intro, and thanks for reassuring my purchase on the early Kroot Hunting pack early codex / card access. I thank you... my wife does not.
i hope the kroot become usable because the new models are very pretty if i can make the kroot detachment plus a couple of tau units to set up some kroot dmg / and use the kroot as board control i think they could work
Yeah, I hope so too. The detachment sounds really fun, but the datasheets are just so terrible that it'll just suck as it is :/. Maybe they can actually buff some of the datasheets at some point to make it a thing.
@@theStamax ive been trying them at reduced points cost and they do great / 65 carnivores , 40 hounds , 35 krootox , 90 rampagers , 35 trail shaper ,45 warshaper, 40 flesh shaper , 70 farstalkers 80 point lone spears with the current pointed tau from the index they do suprisingly well under those point costs i had a blast
@@yuruna1661Hmm interesting. Yeah I'll give them a shot as well, but I doubt their datasheets are good enough to stand on their own without any Tau support.
I just want it, and the points update, in my hand, right now. 😅
Hi. When revisit w points values now being out? esp hits on breacherfish, suits carnivores, etc.
Dont Gun Drones have assault so you will almost always have an assault weapons to add to units?
Little question : for the Mont'ka stratagem Counter Defense System,
can it make attack dices damage from 1 to 0?
I've always loved to play a combination of Kau'yon and Mont'Ka. Crippling transports and Fast moving units from distance, in the early turns, followed by pushing forward aggressively to double tap the buggery out of the stranded enemy in the later turns.
The battlesuit detachment looks ro be perfect for this. Mass missiles, rail guns and Ghostkeel/stealthsuits turns 1 and 2, followed by all the plasma, meltas and flamers with +1 S and AP to clear out objectives from turn 3 onwards.
Battlesuits ho!
As someone who plays Tau and Dark Angels, the Tau part has VERY little to complain about. Am I thrilled about the Crisis Suit changes? No. Do they ruin the faction: Also no, Tau are gonna be fine.
Mont'ka all the way. I've been looking at options to phase out the crisis bombs we had in index. Most of the time, these bombs costed 700-800 points and I really think the Ta'unar can fill the void. They havent changed, have a boatload of shots, high dmg, combo well with lethals, and benefit from pretty much every rule Mont'ka.
But you cant splitfire, the army rules won't let you take this kind of datasheet
@martial8574 full re rolls to hit from the Mont'ka strat hitting on 4s is still good. You don't have to guide the Ta'unar every time it shoots, especially when you can dump 40+ lethal hits that can kill a TEQ in 1 wound.
@@markhohenbrink5230 Yeah against the ONE unit that has previously killed something. Kinda defeats the purpose of splitting fire (and you wanna split against at least 2-3 targets with a Tau'nar). It's just terribly costed rn. Stormsurges already suffer from this, but at least they are half the cost and they are only MAYBE playable.
@theStamax when you are making a list around a Ta'unar, everything other than.the Ta'unar is meat for grinder. Additionally, that strat is only one cp and lasts the whole game for the entire army. Throw some breachers at a big ticket unit and now you can melt it. The lethal hits is the main thing for the Ta'unar and the number of high dmg low strength shots that benefit from it.
@@markhohenbrink5230Even so^^. That's ideal circumstances (and believe you me .... any opponent worth his salt won't give you many rerolls before the Ta'unar is gone).
It's a 30 wound model with a 5++. That thing's gonna die reeaaaaal quick for a 790p unit. You can get 2 Stormsurges for nearly the same cost and get much better value out of them. Especially cause they have a 4++ and 40 wounds combined. They also can "split fire" better than a single Ta'unar.
Just to give you a picture. A Sunforge Squad with Commander costs like 275p at current points and deals about 22 damage in melta range to a Ta'unar on average (both in Mont'ka and Retaliation Cadre). Add 3 Broadsides and it's probably gone at that point. And you can't even overwatch cause Titanic can't overwatch. And Tau aren't the only faction with good anti tank (for example, fire dragons out of a falcon would trade insanely well. As would something like Eradicators. And plenty of other good anti tank units).
You can definitely run it, but in truth you won't get very far with it, except maybe in very casual games or against skew lists that can't kill it efficiently and suck at scoring otherwise. It's sadly just way overpriced currently. If it went down like 100 points (at least), it might have some potential, but for 790p it just dies too quick and has too poor of a synergy with the T'au faction rule sadly. And I'm saying this as someone who really likes the model.
edit: also this won't fill the role of a Crisis blob. They cost 485 p when they were really competitive (565 if you wanna include a tetra) so significantly less. They also were that powerful because they were non-interactive and could draw LoS to almost everything with 18 inch movement (and you could hide them after). The Ta'unar not only won't do the same damage to some units, but it's waaay more expensive and it's way easier to hide from.
Deamons blood crushers are 110 for 3.
The krootox rampaged needs to be maybe 90 points for 3 to be worth taking
I wanted changes on the Stormsurge... wanted it to be better.
Well, now at least there is a detachment that does something good on the turns that matter... and at least Kauyon, once on turn 3 does something, and its a detachment rule that you can change if you dont like it... (unlike Chaos Knights, that are stuck with a useless rule but its the army rule that you cant change, and even on turn 3 is still absolutely random and most likely will do nothing... love having no control of any kind, from turn limitations, to condition of the enemy unit, to range limitations on the aura, and random tests... its the worst part of every other rule all rolled up into one.)
40:26 grr why does admech have this exact same stratagem (except it can br used in the fight phase and this one cant, i guess?) Except it costs 2 cp for admech?!
I'm not that excited about T'au but I am excited for all the t'au players!
Time to dig out my XV-15’s!
Correct me if I am wrong here but the puretide engram chip would work on any stratagem not just battle tactics because it does not affect the cost of the stratagem it just allows you to use a strat that you have already used but you still have to pay for it????
theres a rule where abilities like this can only be used on battle tactics, it was in the balance data slate jan 2024
yep i see that now thanks@@joshuawilkins8172
both modify cost and get a second use out of a strat are separately errata'd to only apply to battle tactics in the balance dataslate
With the crew detachment can't you just add some broadsides and some ghost keels? I feel like they can take care of the tanks while your kroot rampagers stomp the front lines. That's what I'm going with.
to be fair, the only reason that Necrons are doing so well right now is that GW forgot to nerf the C'Tan points cost when they gave them a massive buff with the Feel No Pain.
Using Fail-safe detonators on a riptide could get pretty spicy with the D6 Deadly demise and its big base size. But yeah, other than that niche it doesn't seem very useful. This new codex is looking really fun though!
51:00 I think the reusing strats battle tactic restrictions is for things that make the strat 0cp
It's for both doubling a strat and for reducing or altering costs of strats unfortunately.
May I ask what page thats on? Page 19 only speaks on cp reduction not on the reusing strats.
They are usually together so most people link the two concepts.
Page one of the balance dataslate@@dreadclown9977 www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/dKoVkM0TCEGV9plY.pdf
Honestly the more I see and think about the Fireknife Datasheet the more I'm convinced that GW was going to give Plasma Rifles Rapid Fire 1 or something to help them after also cutting their range with this update and they just forgot or chickened out at the last minute.
I'm looking forward to a strong codex, but I'm still a bit miffed about the missed opportunities (lack of "weapon fixes", some odd nerfs like Plasma Rifles). Largest miss for me is for sure the army rule with the split fire. Since our shooting is already balanced around being guided (at least .... ignore cover mb a slight bonus), not getting the +1 to BS (and the ignore cover) should already be enough of a downside for splitting fire. The additional -1 BS is just unnecessary at that point.
The Kroot Detachment will completly come down to point costs, but the option to move block the opponent form turn one with 120 carnivores, 30+6 Farstalkers with hounds, and another 30 Kroot hounds, where everything has stealth, Scout and a 5 up ranged save/6 up melee save with returning carnivores, let me try to deny you any primarys for the whole game, you are not moving out of your deployment zone if everything goes rigth ....
It can't be fixed by point costs alone. Sure it can be so cheap that you can do that and then fill up the remaining points with Tau, but at that point you are basically playing scuffed infantry guard :D. But they have actual damage output.
So we went from 1 detachment to 2. Nice...
Well at least it went from 1 shit detachment to 2 good ones (and 2 bad ones, but who'S counting those).
In kauyon, does the observer unit get sustained 2 vs their spotted unit too? I mean it is theiy spotted unit...
Yes they so now
@@ArtofWar40k nice!
Personally, i'm not happy about these changes. The way people talk about them feels i'll be forced into a playstyle that either does not work for me or forces me to take kroot. The crisis suit changes could have been done differently, removing CIB and Airburst i get, but the locked loadout just doesn't work for me. Plasma rifle nerf hits hard aswell, it just doesn't feel like the shooty army it is supposed to be. We'll see how it goes in the future but i'm not hopefull about it.
Hey y'all! I was wondering how the Crusade rules for T'au look?
Since we almost exclusively do matched play content we did not review them. However, our friends over at Goonhammer will be doing a full breakdown of the Crusade rules soon!
Are there so many T8/T9 vehicles in competitive lists that S9 becomes something to look for?
In my games being S9 instead of S8 rarely matters, it doesn't get past the 2+ threshold on heavy infantry, and is too inefficient against T10 targets that are swarming the board (without rerolls).
Almost every transport falls in the T9 range- rhinos, devilfish, etc. Medium vehicles like riptides, ghostkeels, dreadknights, all fall in that range as well
Am I wrong here. I think it doesn't need to be a battle tactics for the neurochip engram thingie, as it does not reduce the cost and if I remember correctly, the dataslate was about the rduction of cost part of the stratagem.
Check the balance dataslate page one middle section
@@ArtofWar40k rgr, thanks :)
I had it in mind wrong^^
The hammerhead, sky ray and devilfish should all have 2 TWIN smart missile systems with twin linked.
Wouldnt you be unable to select a unit of breachers in a devilfish to give them scout as the models embarked are not within 6"?
You just select the devilfish to have scout
you could probably just give it to the vehicle then couldn't you?
@@555tork the transport can only scout if all of the embarked crew have scout.
@@Slaave isn't that only the case that if the unit inside has scout they grant it to the transport? but in this case the transport would have the scout rule itself.
Where is the ork codex weren't they supposed to get one first
I am super excited for this once it releases standalone, kroot are boring, farsight and the battlesuits and my breacher bois are eating good
2:02:37 I dont think it will be possible to get mounted 7 inch move unit anywhere even remotly relevant. even if they are very cheap they dont do anything and their MW ability is straight up worse bloodcrusher ability.
It is my understanding that the kroot detachment doesn't prevent you from taking regular T'au units.
I would agree that an all kroot detachment would probably not do well, but if you mix in some crisis suits or riptides, I would imagine such a list would probably be OK.
The question is whether it would approach even close to being "good". Because at that point why not just skip the Kroot and use Mont'ka or Retaliation Cadre.
I guess I'd have to see these detachments in games to see for sure. Just looking at the rules and they all seem pretty usable.
I know a lot of folks are hyped about Mont'ka and Retaliation Cadre, but the biggest issue I have with those detachments is they will not do much on T1 (which is true of most things), and so T2 is where you pop off. Fair.
But Lethal Hits is actually not very good compared to Sustained (as an example) and Retaliation Cadre, while nice, puts your models danger close in order to get the buff. So in order for Retaliation Cadre to work, you'd have to set up lists where you are tabling portions of the field, or otherwise killing enough in that shooting phase to ensure you won't get shot / charged in the next turn and lose said models.
So it's not about damage for Kroot (if that's what you mean by good), but how their board presence works with their rules as a whole.
Let me give you an idea of what I mean.
Take a squad of breachers with Fireblade. Run them up on top of a squad of 20 man Kroot squad with a flesh shaper. So they're T3 5+/5++/6+++.
Breachers are guided and have Lethal (Mont'ka), but Kroot are -1 to hit. So breachers are hitting on 3s. Let's say they are rerolling their wounds as the kroot are on an objective.
So 30 BS3 S6 AP1 D1 shots with lethal and rr wounds going into this Kroot squad with T3 5+/5++/6+++.
That kills 10.88 Kroot.
Yikes. Let's see what happens on the return attack.
Kroot fire back and kill 2.75 breachers.
They charge and get into melee and kill 8.45 breachers. So they effectively wipe the squad.
And in order to get the breachers there you'd either need a devilfish to bring them up, and at least one other unit spotting for the breachers to help them shoot better.
130pts for that breacher squad and fireblade, and 175pts for the kroot and the flesh shaper (which will prob drop in points).
And then if you do wipe the squad, I can just pay 2CP and get my kroot squad back (minus the shaper).
Or I can do things like add a war shaper to the unit (you can have two characters in a 20 man squad) and then use my free stratagem for the turn to make the squad lone op for a turn.
That's what I mean when I say we have to see these in action to get an idea of how they'll play. It's not always about damage.
@@AnonAmbientLight oh for sure. There's definitely things they'll be better at. I just doubt they'll do enough (especially at their current cost) to be played on their own without at least some Tau units to help with damage.
Something else I'd note is that the example is valid, but very niche. Breachers are just about the ideal target for something like Kroot. The problem with Kroot isn't about their damage against light, low armored infantry (4+ is okay, but not great). Their problem is with anything tougher than that (as is for all Kroot units).
Breachers can punch up against many things up to and including tanks (though at t12+ their damage really tappers of). Kroot just fail miserably against anything with a good safe and high toughness.
I've seen the Kroot Detachment's 'Join the Hunt' said if can be free from War Shaper. Comments: Yes it can; Discord Judges: no it can't; You Two: say yes. Should I just email GW after the codex comes out and hope for an FAQ (this year hopefully) ?
It will likely be addressed in the T'au FAQ but could go either way. Like we say the battle tactic restriction on manipulating strats is a change to the game that the codexes thus far were not designed to interact with that.
I think Mont'ka RAW works and makes gun drones more useful in the detachment. A unit would be eligible to shoot if it has a gun drone and advanced.
So if you want to spot a unit to give it assault, make it have a gun drone.
The issue is some of the units that would most benefit from it (like Riptides or Stormsurges) won't be able to access it at all then. Kinda poor design to not only limit it in such a weird way, but also to enforce a "drone tax" which isn't the original purpose of said drones.
@@theStamax Since the start of 10th people have been using assault drones to make a unit eligible to shoot after advancing for the purpose of objectives. Regardless of if this isn't their "original purpose", it does make them even more useful. Also, have you considered that riptides and stormsurges just, weren't intended to be advancing and shooting? I mean the bloody stormsurge has ground anchors so it can shoot effectively. Additionally, With it's 10" movement and 36-72" range on it's main weapons, does the riptide really need it? Not to forget that with the strike swiftly enhancement you can effectively give the stormsurge a 14" first turn move and the riptide a 16". So, yea I don't get how there's anything wrong with this detachment. Take more infantry and get gud lol.
@@EsssDeeee I think whether anything is wrong with this detachment is besides the point (and I'd argue there is). It's more a question of whether this is an oversight or intentional design. As such let me copy something I've shared with another commenter here (I may slightly modify it).
There are strong indicators it's an oversight.
These are mainly that there haven't been any changes to which units can easily access an assault weapon (again ... gun drones as an option hasn't changed) as well as the fact that it's a condition that's not easily satisfied by every unit. The latter of which should be taken into account, considering how closely mirrored Kauyon and Mont'ka are (albeit one is significantly stronger than the other, because it happens in more relevant turns). I do concede that the second point is weaker, but I'd find it odd if the "improved" version of the detachment wouldn't bestow any benefits on a large chunk of the roster (again, as opposed to Kauyon).
Just because a rule works, doesn't mean it's likely meant to work that way. There are clear examples for this in other codices / indexes. As a short example Guard double orders (via the chimera rule) seem rather unlikely to be intended and more of an oversight between an old rule and a dataslate update. As seems to have happened here between an old rule and a codex update.
In fact, the dataslate and FAQ are prime examples for the fact that rules sometimes have been used and written in ways they weren't meant to be used.
Therefore I'll dismiss the point that "the detachment works" as an argument. Because there have been way too many cases where something "works" and it was corrected later on.
Secondly, the only argument I've heard so far for why it may have been intentional is to function as a "balancer" or that certain units weren't meant to have access to assault. There is however no evidence to support this intent. Not in the least, because there has obviously not been made any effort to reevaluate which units can access Gun Drones or Assault, as well as the units which naturally do have access to Assault in some way not sharing any common denominator versus those who don't. In other words it's arbitrary.
So it's basically your postulation of "functions as a balancer"/"this is intended", which has little to no evidence to support it on the one hand versus a known track record in 10th edition of rule oversights and lack of proofreading.
In summary. It is way more likely that this is an oversight and not intentional design. I hope this will suffice in making you think.
PS: resulting to offending language like "get gud" lessens the appeal and seriousness of your position. You may wanna refrain from using such language if engaging with someone in a discourse if you wanna be taken seriously.
20 years from now, Sieg's Kid "Dad why are the pages sticky in this Tau Codex?
on the Kroot Detachment. Where exactly does it state that you can only run Kroot? :D
guys, you could just run a Kroot horde and stick some regular T'au heavy hitters into the detachment. Add some Sky Rays and you'll be fine
You can of course run other stuff, but its all designed to only buff Kroot and that's how we were evaluating it. You can simply run other stuff in Mont'Ka and get all the benefits to the other units, which are stronger. Now when points go down on the Kroot units we will definitely reevaluate it!
@@ArtofWar40k ok, makes sense. I would still think, that a more balanced but still kroot heavy army could also work in the Kroot detachment. The respawn strat alone might be enough to really force your opponent to target stiff he wouldn't want to target that much allowing other t'au units to deal the damage you need.
But we'll see what people come up with i'd say :)
Guess Infiltrators are back on the menu, Battle-Brothers
22:40 Battle Tactic info.
When is the codex going to be released for purchase?
Probably early May going by the DA release
Very non-doomer Tau player here!
As someone who doesn't like Kauyon but has been having fun all of 10th this is a huge step in the right direction for me. 🤠👍
Mont'ka seems pretty obviously powerful, but I'm going to be starting with a suit heavy retaliation Cadre list featuring lots of Stealth suits and ghostkeels supported by 2 - 3 deep striking fusions and flamers. Aggressive tau here we come!
Ap-2 flamers dropping 3.1 from screens sounds fun
It's getting toasty in here!
Sadly I think Breachers will just outclass them for cheaper. At least in Mont'ka (and honestly they may still do in Retaliation Cadre).
@@theStamax depends on points but I want to test having a cheaper 3 suit unit to clear screens and moveblock.
@@paulshaw3907Yeah it may honestly be decent if it's well priced. You just won't drop then within 3 I think. 2CP for that doesn't seem worth it.
Daniel: Kauyon
The cooler Daniel: Montka
Would the bring kroot back for free.not work because the unit doesnt exist when selcting the strat?? Or i getting sequencing wrong
There's example of free strats being used on destroyed units being legal (Creed could do it early in 10th to get free reinforcements). Because there is a small point in time where a unit is still on the battlefield, but destroyed. So theoretically you could use it if that happens. Even though it's kinda dumb.
Not like it's gonna make the detachment good anyways^^.
Ive seen it argued bith way on other videos so figure may as well ask
@@BeardedWargaming Well i you want my opinion? Ask your TO. It should theoretically be legal due to previous rulings, but it's kinda dumb so who knows.
Agreed! Ty for insight
Who was responsible for putting the role for the krootox as "Damage?" Legitimately burst out laughing when I saw it
Quinton!
Failsafe detonator is bad 99% of the time
But that _one time_ you have a riptide surrounded, its worth it
Is the whole "l assume" thing for legal reasons ? Same as the "we don't know if X going to be Y", when it is not that hard to get codex leaks 4-8 weeks begore codex drop. Or did GW stopped talking to people post index?
I think it's more to stop the rumours and conspiracy nuts. They say something and ppl incorrectly assume they have direct info from GW and then ppl gets mad when it doesn't turn out to be true.
Best review I’ve seen so far… and NO MOAR TEARS
Does anbodyelse feel that notbeing able to select Kauyon or Montka at the beginning of the game leaves Tau's previous flexibility in a somewhat less advantageous space? I felt it was an advantage to the mind games and a ability to tailor to your opponents army and composition.
Well no. There's no way you'd wanna run Kauyon in the current game over Mont'ka pretty much ever.
with that grenade pack enhancement, you could fly over something, getting the ability to roll 6 d6 on a +4 the enemy unit takes a mortal, then throw grenades, shoot, then charge to tank shock, cuz crisis suits are vehicles. lolol
Much better to just fly over them again and drop grenades a 3rd time (from doing a normal move). Also costs 1 cp and will just do more than a tankshock with Crisis strength.
so does that mean the resin data sheets are gone?
Nope, they're still exactly the same and in the Forge World compendium. No Codexes have any forge world units.
Make kroot like admech in 9th
the splitfire penalty continues to suck and feel so unlike tau. some interesting new synergies in the codex but cant help but feel we've lost so much flavor. even the assumptions for detachments we had from the beginning of 10th's announcement (battlefield philosophy, farsight enclaves, bork'an, auxiliary focus) compared with what we got is sad lol. new kroot units are very cool!... and yet i was much more hoping for a general auxiliary detachment alongside more species. just gotta keep your expectations low....
Crazy how GW seems to be unable to balance detachments... When you read it, it is obvious which ones are much better than others. Mont'ka is outright one of the best detachment, soo many good abilities and synergies. Then you have other detachments that barely functions.
Retaliation Cadre is probably on par (though hard to tell at this point).
Kauyon is DoA though and the Kroot Detachment, while a good detachment, buffs terrible datasheets, so it's pretty much just for fun :D.
I think having detachments like the kroot one is overall good for the game. It may not be competitive but its a fluffy way to run kroot. The same could be said for stuff like anvil siege force where its not competitive but it is fluffy and it does what it says it does
They just need to increase the turns montka and kauyon work. Kauyon turn 2-5 and Montka 1-4 and both would be very good. Not playing a detatchment rule for half the game feels bad.
In comparison to other armies detachment rules that borderline don't do anything, with the enhancements you get that extra turn with a key unit anyway
Imo that's just shifting the problem (And would make Kauyon too strong tbh, because turn 1 is so weak).
Better solution would be making both of them giving their detachments and strats ALL game long and instead facilitate different playstyles via their strats and detachment rule. That would be the elegant design to differentiate between the patient hunter and the killing blow.
the 1-3 and 3-5 has always been a bad idea and ultimately has nothing to do with either strategy in lore (i.e. is a self-created problem by GW). It's also rather lazy.
Are you sure the War shaper can bring back his own unit even if he dies in the phase?
Technically yes, because there's a point where the unit is destroyed, but still on the battlefield and part of the combined unit. At least theoretically. Creed's free strat worked a similar way back in early 10th.
"kroot rifles must be strength 5, the must get a pip of AP across the board"
so a 20 man squad with better guns than tactical marines and same as pulse rifles
Just don’t guide the storm surge. Everything is heavy anyway, so hitting on 3s when stationary.
Yeah if only heavy came up more often in games :D. most often you gotta move to shoot something in current 40k.