A close relation of mine(Jane) is currently a trained facilitator. The school is forced to do it because the parents of the student(Robert) sued the school and won. The student has been diagnosed by Dr.’s to have the cognitive abilities of a 5-6yr old. He is currently in 11th grade. Since Jane was the last hire she got the job. She tried to make it work but early on she realized that it doesn’t work. For at least 6mo she tried and tried, she tried different things to no avail. Jane says the saddest thing is the parents who so badly want to believe that their child isn’t profoundly autistic and they would pay any amount of money to believe this. The FC training for Jane isn’t free and has to be paid by the parents. Robert’s parents have paid thousands of dollars to this Professional “Facilitator” over the years. Jane says it doesn’t work.
They attend school.. they’re usually adults.. now it’s more making sentences with an iPad showing pictures.. like a happy or sad face.. confused face.. sun or rain.. and the facilitator can make a sentence out of it.. like the person points to happy and rain… the facilitator can say “they like rain”.. but yeah .. complex topic but has changed some lives no doubt.. and in others cases has led to heartbreak..
Good episode, Abhijit! I would very much love to see at least one of these pseudosciences be proven not pseudo after all, but my wishes have no bearing on reality. FC is a good example of one that could be so beneficial if it were true, but as Boynton notes here, the evidence is very much against. Thank you both for this interview.
There's just too much room for influence in this method. Aside from it generally looking suspicious, I knew FC was bunk when seemingly all the people who used it were writing papers and poems. Like I can't imagine that every person with a speech disability that gained a voice would be passionate about the liberal arts. Certainly there's diversity of interest in those populations. It just seemed ridiculous.
Always test before “being wishfully thinking” that FC works. Examples of good test are easy to find, and can rule out the influence of the facilitator(s).
How can it be a scam when the speller ends up independently typing and says that it was their words all along??? So many self-advocates out there who independently type as a result of methods like facilitated communication.
I skipped to the part where she promotes ABA and immediately clicked off. Maybe you mention it in the video, but do you consider AAC a problematic form of facilitated communication? Because I think it’s really fucked up to withhold that type of technology
AAC is an evidence based approach and is done independently without a need for any facilitator. FC will always need a facilitator to “work” and it’s just not independent communication nor does it lead to actual independent communication.
@@rebeccacapes5881 thank you for providing this explanation of the difference between FC and AAC. I wasn’t aware of the distinction, and found it more useful than the reply from the person who posted this.
The documentaries assertion that "facilitators are just interpreting the autist's perceptions for themselves in a way akin to palm reading" is a gross one. It reflects the biases of the documentary maker more than anything else.
Look.. some of it is very real.. some isn’t.. when the facilitator must guide the hand it’s fake.. when they can point on their own and press it’s real.. but it’s not 100% crap.. it’s patient dependent
The problem is I've never seen an example of independent communication from a nonverbal autistic person. With S2C/RPM, the facilitator is always holding the letterboard, it is never static.
How do spellers learn how to spell? Would they teach the students spelling first before transitioning to FC?
That's what I have been say
A close relation of mine(Jane) is currently a trained facilitator. The school is forced to do it because the parents of the student(Robert) sued the school and won. The student has been diagnosed by Dr.’s to have the cognitive abilities of a 5-6yr old. He is currently in 11th grade. Since Jane was the last hire she got the job. She tried to make it work but early on she realized that it doesn’t work. For at least 6mo she tried and tried, she tried different things to no avail.
Jane says the saddest thing is the parents who so badly want to believe that their child isn’t profoundly autistic and they would pay any amount of money to believe this. The FC training for Jane isn’t free and has to be paid by the parents. Robert’s parents have paid thousands of dollars to this Professional “Facilitator” over the years.
Jane says it doesn’t work.
@gdi24-7 Jane is right.
They attend school.. they’re usually adults.. now it’s more making sentences with an iPad showing pictures.. like a happy or sad face.. confused face.. sun or rain.. and the facilitator can make a sentence out of it.. like the person points to happy and rain… the facilitator can say “they like rain”.. but yeah .. complex topic but has changed some lives no doubt.. and in others cases has led to heartbreak..
This is good information.. Thanks Mr Rationable 🙌
Thanks so much!
Anyone read the recent published papers about the relationship between autism and pfas toxicity? It’s stark and frankly terrifying..
Good episode, Abhijit! I would very much love to see at least one of these pseudosciences be proven not pseudo after all, but my wishes have no bearing on reality. FC is a good example of one that could be so beneficial if it were true, but as Boynton notes here, the evidence is very much against. Thank you both for this interview.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
There's just too much room for influence in this method. Aside from it generally looking suspicious, I knew FC was bunk when seemingly all the people who used it were writing papers and poems. Like I can't imagine that every person with a speech disability that gained a voice would be passionate about the liberal arts. Certainly there's diversity of interest in those populations. It just seemed ridiculous.
Always test before “being wishfully thinking” that FC works. Examples of good test are easy to find, and can rule out the influence of the facilitator(s).
Scam my son you'll be sorry
Easy solution. Maybe switch communicators. Maybe 7 telecommunicator for 1 disabled person and if they all get the same answer. Then perhaps it works
How can it be a scam when the speller ends up independently typing and says that it was their words all along??? So many self-advocates out there who independently type as a result of methods like facilitated communication.
Can you provide an example of when that has happened?
Yeah, go to any actually autistic social media user with an AAC device lmao
@@rationable watch the movie Spellers
True i saw some typing totaly alone
@@alexandraponsica1401 Methods like facilitated communication or facilitated communication? This is a specific conversation.
I skipped to the part where she promotes ABA and immediately clicked off. Maybe you mention it in the video, but do you consider AAC a problematic form of facilitated communication? Because I think it’s really fucked up to withhold that type of technology
And no answer yet....
If an intervention like FC can’t hold up to scrutiny and many rounds of scientific testing then it should not be promoted at all.
@@rationable I wish you would focus this energy on ABA instead
AAC is an evidence based approach and is done independently without a need for any facilitator. FC will always need a facilitator to “work” and it’s just not independent communication nor does it lead to actual independent communication.
@@rebeccacapes5881 thank you for providing this explanation of the difference between FC and AAC. I wasn’t aware of the distinction, and found it more useful than the reply from the person who posted this.
The documentaries assertion that "facilitators are just interpreting the autist's perceptions for themselves in a way akin to palm reading" is a gross one. It reflects the biases of the documentary maker more than anything else.
Look.. some of it is very real.. some isn’t.. when the facilitator must guide the hand it’s fake.. when they can point on their own and press it’s real.. but it’s not 100% crap.. it’s patient dependent
The problem is I've never seen an example of independent communication from a nonverbal autistic person. With S2C/RPM, the facilitator is always holding the letterboard, it is never static.