Does Long Range Advantage fix Talis DPS? [NGS]
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- čas přidán 31. 10. 2023
- Today we will be looking at the new Talis Skill and how it brings up Talis DPS numbers to be more competitive with the other weapons!
Math Part:
Convergence Shot 343 DPS
160 x 1,1 x 1,05 x 1,15 / 37,2 x 60
Convergence Tech 399 DPS
136 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,05 x 1,05 x 1,15 / 34,2 x 60
Swift Smash 393 DPS
710 + (60 x 1,2 x 1,05) x 1,1 / 132 x 60
*Not attacking a weakpoint so Crisp Food only applies to the Photonic Fury
Revoke Pursuit 891 DPS
900 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,05 / 84 x 60
Tricky Capacitor 581 DPS (610 DPS if attacking Weakpoint due to Crisp Food)
750 x 1,1 / 85,2 x 60
Trciky Capacitor (if Long Range applied) 668 DPS
750 x 1,1 x 1,15 / 85,2 x 60
Weapon Action 297 DPS
162 x 1,1 / 36 x 60
Weapon Action (if Long Range applied) 342 DPS
162 x 1,1 x 1,15 / 36 x 60
Uncharged Grants 286 DPS
155 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,05 / 45 x 60
Uncharged Grants + Glitter 344 DPS
186 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,05 / 45 x 60
Convergence Shot (no Crisp Food) 327 DPS
160 x 1,1 x 1,05 x 1,15 / 37,2 x 60
Convergence Tech (no Marking) 380 DPS
136 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,05 x 1,15 / 34,2 x 60
Multipliers:
Mainclass Damage Bonus: 1,1 (10%)
Elemental Matching Bonus: 1,2 (20%)
Crisp Food: 1,05 (5%)
Talis Sign Marking: 1,05 (5%)
Long Range Advantage: 1,15 (15%)
Math Sources:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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Looks like Talis is going to become a myth just like the Techter mag
we cannot compare wand that is melee/element attack plus with buff damage attack the DPS wand make was so huge even though it has slow attack but it is deadly every hit is critical plus with enemy weakness double the damage and again add on buff skill triple the damage wand is superior when one on one boss fight it is like magic knight
Good stuff. Te/Ra looks unironically so fun!
in my personal opinion, it just feels like talis shouldve been its own weapon or class even (duelist) cause the classes its attached to are too strong for talis to be useful. i love what they done with talis in ngs, but i can never justify slapping it on a weapon cause the main weapon of that class is just way stronger.
My biggest issue right now is that all the skills we've got since launch of NGS are just "numbah go big" skills and nothing that really alters or enhances Talis gameplay.
- Tricky Quick Recharge (Fo exclusive) increases Tricky build-up by 50% after using tricky
- Tricky GAuge Amplifier increases Tricky build-up by 250% when element matching
- Talis Bloom After PP gain refunds PP on talis Techniques
- Talis Sign Marking increases damage by 5% after long time passes of WA hitting your enemy
- Tricky Capacitor Bloom flourish changes Tricky behaviour based on Talis formation
A lot of there are just things that honestly could've been changed via a balance patch update and didn't have to be their own skill. There is nothing that rewards the player for using Talis Bloom Revoke for example, no alternative use for the weapon action, no alternative use for the normal attack button. Floating Pillbox Multirock is still a meme that gets in the way of regular talis gameplay since its the only ability with a stay/move arts behavior on Talis.
Talis gameplay has been the same "WA > PA > (hold) Tech > repeat" for the past 2,5 years and the devs should finally look into ways to spice up the gameplay. Damage numbers can always be adjusted but the gameplay can't be fixed via a set of patch notes.
Mistranslated? Damn, if it worked the way the original wording said, it would have been a nice risk vs reward balance...
Yep! I waited for todays patch specifically to wait if the mistranslation gets fixed, which it did~
See ya in the next one!
I miss te/ra in pso2 day so I can use gun and week bullet while still support and heal group, can't do that anymore :(
its very inconsistent what the devs deem "mainclass only" and what they dont deem that.
Sometimes its a class defining gimmick, sometimes important skills to make the weapon playable in the first place, sometimes its just Quality of Life skills? What?
Talis is finally somewhat viable! It's just a shame it's reliant on aggro.
Is that music from Grandia 2? It sounds familiar, and I don’t recognise it from PSO2.
Yes!
Grandia is one of of my favorite jrpg franchises~
@@Cathy5614Awesome! One of my favorite RPGs, and one of the gew I completed on both the Dreamcast and again on the PS1!
As a gamer that used stat manipulation before.... pokemon days, I must say teacher important, I m just not cool with using tetcher must do more
Late to this, but some examples you gave are kinda weird.
In Aegis, the quadratic scaling from using Wave Crash easily outperforms every weapon in the game, it's a very niche scenario where Wave Crash shines. What I do is Swift Smash and cancel with a WA to gap close, and then immediately wave crash to clear a cluster of bots.
In Solus, using Skip beat to gain altitude will allow you to immediately start using Wave Crash until the hand is all the way down, as the hitbox is quite generous vertically.
As for Talis itself, it's obviously in a weird spot, because it is essentially a boring version of Rod.
To make it out-DPS or even match the DPS of Rod would be bad, but at the same time it has lost all of its utility from PSO2 so there's really no point to it anymore.
It's not a damage issue, it's a design issue.
Initially Talis in NGS was envisioned as a PP support companion to Rod and Wand, but that became obsolete for Wand with the addition of the Extra attack and obsolete for Rod with the addition of the new crash attack which make both weapons PP self sufficient.
It still has a very valuable niche in PSE Farming, which is a major piece of content in the game, but it is otherwise void of purpose.
I don't really like Talis, so for my money an easy fix to the weapon would be to let its weapon action add tech stacks, or to let a multiweapon passively fill Tricky Capacitor, but for anyone who liked Talis in base that probably sounds terrible.
It really needs a whole rework to establish its role and playstyle, you can't fix it by adding damage, and to be honest Wand could use the Soaring Blades treatment as well.
Wavecrash isnt the only thing benefiting from photonic fury stacking (I assume that's what you mean with Quadratic Scaling) and the only reason I dont use it myself is because it feels more clunky to me than the alternative.
I also disagree that Talis's sole reason to exist was to WA for PP sustain because it goes against the idea the MW system was sold on, to use any weapon you want and go to town with it. Tying a important aspect of a weapon to a specific subweapon just doesn't make sense to me. The reality is that Talis has always been underdesigned and prior to Kvaris patch barely even playable on its own. Force players wouldnt really care if talis was on par with Rod because the Fo class fantasy was always to use a Rod primarily (at least in PSO2). It might honestly be better if Talis was simply removed from Fo and Te and given its own class. Shared weapons will always have the akward issue that they need to be designed with unique damage multipliers of 2 different classes (or in case of Gu rifle isnt even designed at all). Giving it its own class would require the devs to make the weapon excell at most situations you can throw at the weapon instead of just PSE farming (which is super braindead these days even on non-talis) and the lack of a ranged option to fall down on would force the wand designers to stop neglecting wands ranged capabilities (and maybe stop neglecting WL in general). I don't think Wand needs a SB treatment because wand isnt mechanically screwed like SB (or JB to lesser extendend). The only areas where i think wand underperforms are things involving WL and Techs. The PA side of things is fine.
Yes I mean Photonic Fury, Skip Beat doesn't really do nearly the same job as Wave Crash because of Wave Crash's massive range. Having quadratic scaling on that is extremely powerful in these niche situations.
I didn't mean that Talis should be a support off hand, I meant that it's what they originally intended on NGS' launch and that's how it was used, as a PP battery.
I think Talis should have unique utility over other weapons and I don't think it's in the cards for it to be removed from Te and Fo and be given its own class. It also would definitely piss most Wand and Rod mains off if it ever overtook either of them.
Really disagree on Wand btw, the updates have all been great and it plays a hell of a lot better than it did on launch, but it's still extremely clunky compared to any other weapon and suffers from insane palette bloat.
They've been doing a great job trying to salvage it from how disastrous it was on launch, but there's only so much you can do with updates.
Remember when the WA didn't cancel anything, was twice as long with way less s? The parry was bugged all the way to Stia having void frames with no hitbox or parry, and right now it still doesn't trigger a parry if you WA right after the Ex attack, it only fires a PF as if you were still in the Ex attack animation. Wave Crash had half the range back then too.
As you said, the tech casting is sidelined, you still can't move while casting techs, Wand Lovers is just weird, Wave Crash is clunky, normal attacks are ass, and there's some other specific quirks that make minmaxing runs very cumbersome (like WA buffering), which is why it was the only weapon that couldn't solo Solus when it came out despite the potency being technically enough.
It just recently got a full combat loop after Pursuit and Skip Beat were added, but the basic tools it came out with are still clunky and while other weapons were getting additions to a functional kit, Wand was slowly getting to where it is now, where you can finally say it's release-worthy.
It's still about 2 years behind in updates, so yeah I do think they should look at it like they looked at Bouncer.
And since Talis is similarly underdeveloped, they can look at both of them like they did with JB and SB.
I know it sounds demanding since all the updates have been consistently good for Wand, but it is what it is. You can't build castles on foundations of sand.
That's my 2 cents at least.
@@_Ikelos Oh I definitely agree that wand despite great patches is still behind other weapons. I feel like Tech weapons in general lag behind for no reason whatsoever. The entire retem patch just felt like half of our skills were wasted on elemental gimmicks when we needed something that's actually important for gameplay. Now we're getting strictly 1 skill per weapon even though tech weapons need more than 1. Long Range S/D was an absolutely wasted skill slot as well. Rod shouldn't have waited 2 years to have its gameplay loop slightly expanded with Rod Impact either.
I think they view "power" very weirdly, and that's the reason.
For example Shifta Deband is considered to be more valuable than Weak Bullet because of the damage reduction alone, so Te in general has to have low potency, in their view.
Even in the score-base LTQs, Ra gets constant point generation if other people hit the WB spot, but Te gets nothing for contributing Shifta.
Maybe they expect people to use different classes for different jobs, instead of sticking to what feels best to play for them, but if that's the case I don't think they would've bothered getting Wand to where it is now in the first place.
I'm not hopeless about it because the direction of the updates to Wand shows me they do get it, but I guess the budget is short.
Wish I could go to Sweden
it's a very nice country! I saved up money for a while to do it uwu
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