EXCLUSIVE: Defecting From Bethel
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- Now you can watch the explosive and compelling story of Lindsay Davis who defected from Bethel. This is an exclusive from the creators at Apologia Studios and is from our popular show, "Cultish". On this episode of Cultish, Jeff Durbin and Jeremiah Roberts interview about her time at Bethel. The story is shocking in many ways and needs to be heard. Partner with us by getting this episode out to the world with us.
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Thank you for your testimony on Bethel. I have been n 3? different groups that were controlled,so-t-speak, by rules or one man or a few men. I am currently n fellowship wth a group that are pro Bethel. I also question the music, the spirit(s) & atmosphere of the meeting. I appreciate the leader,but concerned abt the theology of the music. Pray for me. Rbn
@@robinharper2838 WALK AWAY NOW IT'S BETWEEN YOU AND OUR LORD GOD CHRIST JESUS NOT YOU AND A GROUP OF SPONGES YOU ARE TO AWAKE AND AWESOME NOW TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T THE SAME WHEN THEIR ALONE AND REALLY RUDE IN A GROUP
@@robinharper2838 You need to get out of there...I have a lot of experience with these people...I am an "older" person now...I would say, "Get out of there before you really get warped." It doesn't get any better "with time."
@@robinharper2838 Sometimes we can be "swayed" because we respect the "leaders" or if we have friends there...That was my experience, but I HAD TO get out for my own sanity...!!!.......
What an amazing episode. However, I wish you guys would have let Lindsay speak more instead of routinely interrupting her and going on long expositions of your own thinking. She is an extremely bright and capable speaker and she didn't need you guys trying to direct her thinking. Her story was compelling and she was clear in its telling and describing her thinking and emotions. To me it was very frustrating to have you guys jumping in and taking over the conversation and interrupting the flow of her story. Sometimes the best interviews are the ones where the interviewers say almost nothing.
Stop expecting a church or pastor to save you and look to Christ. Open your bible.
A H 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Amen
TRUTH!! I go to Bethel. I know Bethel has many problems, just like any other church and any other pastors. It has still taught me so much about the Bible and relationship with Jesus. BUT, it has not given me salvation, it has not given me Christ. That is something everyone has to do internally. No church can save you. :)
The church of Jesus is really His people..He is the head and Christian's are His body...i found Jesus and His power thru the Holy Spirit but not in a church...the churches out there are teaching things that the Lord says are not from Him and they do not help someone in spiritual battles...church has become a business...sad but prophetic...stay in the Word of God to stay in Jesus truth.... desperate people are looking for help they know about Revelations but still are putting off the Word of God to glorify themselves...I have been in many of these churches who preach prosperity and do nothing to expose sin and lead people to healing from the Lord ...I have seen the beast standing in the temple of the Lord hasn't anyone else seen this ? Thx for waking people up...by sharing God's working in your life.
Yes I follow Apolus, I follow Paul, I follow Joyce Meyer, I follow pastor such and such. Did they die for you?. We want a king just like the Israelites did. God gave them Saul think about it. Don't settle for following anyone but the King of kings Jesus and him alone.
I grew up going to Bethel, and a smaller church with the same beliefs. It wasn’t until I just watched this video that I realized, everything I’ve been taught, everything that made me so uncomfortable about God, isn’t true. Thank you for this, I feel like I have to relearn everything from now on. Thank you for opening my eyes
Praise God, that He opened your eyes!!! But by the way, being baptized in the Holy Spirit isn't wrong, just some of the experience chasing "signs and wonders", not sign and wonders themselves.
I wasn’t in a cult church I’d say, but a rigorously religious one, and I had the same experience. I had to re-learn Christ once I finally left, and thankfully entered a church that has been very kind and helpful to me.
I hope this comment reaches Lindsey Davis. This is not a plug for her book. I personally met the author. "Walking with the enemy" A testimony by Cathy Read. The first cult Lindsey was a part of was the spirit of anti christ. Now when it comes to Bethel they basically steal from a ton of "ministries." I have met some of the people behind it or were involved with it. I can explain it from Benny Hinn to the Toronto outpouring and the "ministries" behind it. I can explain it. I may write a book debunking it all. As far as doctorine goes. I can even explain why they built their relics museum. When it comes to grave sucking even King David prayed and asked God to keep those in the grave from Speaking. In the book of Romans the bible says not to say in your heart to say who is going to ascend or descend. They lay on the graves of precieved saints. Who is to say famous so called Christians from the past didn't fall away? I believe the Holy Laughter movement actually comes from the idea that the saints will laugh after the lost are cast into hell. But it's premature judgment and sensationalism. Seducing spirits may actually come from accursed angels; Benny Hinn. It is Like the one that is feeding the Mormon cult, it is first peaceable and gentle but not easy to entreat because there is hatred behind it. There are two reasons Mitt Romney lost to Obama. Fighter verse. "Greater is He that is in me than he that is the world" And sometimes when it is a false prophetess you may have to say she the is in the world. Itching ears. Spiritual abuse. And dabbling. Spiritual idolatry. It is the apostasy. They say that the church in Africa is an inch deep and a mile wide lacking knowledge regarding spirits. People perish because of a lack of knowledge.
Hey sweet friend, your comment really touched my heart. I really love you!! Jesus wants to partner with you in this journey of relearning :)
@@tobascoheat6582 CG JB. Rag
Eeeeeerrrimdsss oddsreee see dzzdzdxxddszzsßesdx as. Thanks
As a former Jehovahs Wittness it took me years to see it as a cult. I was disfellowshipped and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I was super involved but always questioned and had doubts. God took me out of there and forgave me and I now serve Him in the right way!
Hallelujah ❤️🙏❤️
God is so merciful 💖
@Amanda Hanson if you lack knowledge about scripture you are no match for them. I am not trying to be mean but I would know the Christian standards and the bible first. ❤️
Praise God He saved you from the watchtower liars.
@Amanda Hanson Greetings sister. Just read this comment after listening to the video. Were you able to send them away?
I came out of Occult/New Age, even worked as a psychic, when I recommitted my life to Christ. I was so shocked at the lack of discernment in the churches and amongst Christians. People think if it's Occult connected it's all spooky and in your face. It's much more subtle than that but she's spot on, if you're well founded in the Word of God then you'll know the difference. God gave us brains and we can trust knowledge of God's Word to show us what's true and what is false.
If it was so "in our face" it wouldn't be called "Occult"... it's occulted from many!!
Jesus said my sheep know my voice and will not follow another. This is very true. That small voice in u will always let u know something isn't right and if that voice is jesus, it will get louder.
Seriously, I couldn't agree more. EX: Satan appearing as an angel of light. Now, is that with the horns and pitchfork in your face? More like the depiction in "The Devil's Advocate". Also, where the rubber meets the road is so often in the realm of Ethics. EX: one Sister figuratively eats meat sacrificed to idols, another Brother can't go near it. The former is stronger, the latter is weaker. No sweat. Don't do it around the weaker brother, BUT the weaker brother must strive to NOT be filled with the Flesh in pride, a haughty eye, gossip, playing God in total judgment. This happens in anything from how we go about our days, use of time, entertainment, hobbies, interests, engaging with the world, views on and use of money. Many areas of life. And just prefacing a statement with "The Bible clearly says..." is not a slam dunk accurate statement. Greater discernment usually comes with time / life / trial & error / humility / context / a view of a BIG God, and especially not making God into our own image, so to speak.
( A gifted prophetic sister at my old church community many years ago once prayed for me and received some "words". I tell ya, the first half of what she prayed / prophesied applied, was accurate, but the second part was her rambling and didn't truly apply to my situation in life. I thanked her for the prayer, then committed the Unpardonable Sin: I gave her feedback over the First 1/2 On and Second 1/2 Off prayer / prophecy from her. She smiled briefly, then it vanished into the look of one deeply offended, almost like she was scorning me. HOW DARE I TELL HER THAT SHE WAS OFF IN ANY WAY?! LoL. Well....maybe she isn't a prophetess. No big deal, keep learning and growing. Isn't remaining humble a foundation to Christianity? I'm very intuitive / prophetic as well, but there have been too many times where I thought I "knew" what was going on, YET...turned out to be wrong. It's sobering, a good reminder of humility, but shouldn't be so "offensive"...unless my pride is involved. If so, then good that it takes a beating again. )
@@machtnichtsseimann Amen!
Some of these groups seem very New Age to me, and you're right - unless it's very openly dark etc they just don't discern anything.
I've found several of the christians who are so keen on all this very easy to manipulate and deceive. Just fabricate a story, or 'an encounter with Holy Spirit ', or make up a problem - and they're hooked, keen, believing every word. Now, if I, a christian with no evil intent can do this, then what about someone with a dark spiritual agenda? These people are so very lacking in spiritual discernment and wisdom, I see them as unsafe.
NOTE: If you want to hear God speak, Read your Bible. If you want to hear God speak audibly...READ IT OUT LOUD!
Hah, that's a good one and generally great advice. I don't doubt that God does occasionally speak directly to people, I've seen enough sincere testimonies that don't end up like the possession freakshows at Bethel. God also speaks out loud through people or whatever media. When you get that answer, you know you got the answer you'd been seeking.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hi...I sort of disagree a wee bit...Ya see God is speaking only truth, and only truth can be found in "His word", But that truth needs to be correctly defined and accurate. For example John 3:16 ...that "Whosoever" believes in him...Well, on that day the folks saying Lord, Lord will have certainly believed in him prior to hearing the next words of depart from me. The demons believe and tremble (They're actually more respectful than we are at times...at least they tremble) and mental assent to the belief in the historical Jesus in and of itself will not save. My point is that what we hear through our own minds, media, and other people is suspect. As peter (who witnessed the ressurected Christ and the assension ) said, Aside from his experiences, We have a far more reliable and sure word of prophecy. In short...If you want to hear God speak...Read your bible. Aided by the Holy Spirit & diligent study we can accuratekly "Hear what God is saying to us"
@@azbugman1 I understand and mostly agree. Perhaps I'm not explaining well and let me make clear that I'm not a supporter of Bethel type manifestations and spent years warning people and disproving this demonic movement w/ the word as well. I'm just saying that I've had many questions to Jesus about the word, doctrines I maybe don't understand or personal guidance. The answers can come from places other than the direct word. They need to not contradict the word, of course, but the answers can come from various places or through different people. Hopefully that makes more sense.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hmmm, I think i get your point...God says that even the heavens declare (speak of) his Glory, and God does work through providence, and other people...I agree. The only caution I would have for anyone is to label the conclusions you draw because of any of those things as suspect & subject to inspection based on Gods word. I'm basically lazy, and if I have to constantly return to Gods word to check out everything i do, say, or hear, then I'd rather just start there and set up camp on that spot. lol Thank you for the interaction, I appreciate the dialouge.
@@azbugman1 I appreciate you tactfully challenging me to make sure I'm on track. Good talking to you too. God bless.
I feel this. I grew up charismatic/Pentecostal and went to IHOP and their conferences and had friends went to their school. I always thought I was less spiritual and/or less anointed because I wasnt receiving visions or new revelations like everyone else. I felt like God didn't love me because he wasnt giving me what all these people around me were getting. Then I unknowingly ended up at a Baptist bible college where my world was flipped upside down. Praise God for protecting me from all that. When I was duped into thinking I was not loved by God, I found out that God was protecting me His daughter from falling into further deception and heresy! Praise the Lord that He is faithful to call and keep His children!
Amen sister! ❤️❤️🙏
@@thebanneredmare9190 You were sensitive to the demonic influence behind such teachings and activities.
Where do you live? Was this in WA state?
Thats silly...your bible says Love is the greatest gift. God protected you from your own hurt feelings. You were walking in a state of greater gifting and blessing than the people you wanted to be like. Myself I believe in all the gifts but I also know my bible says the GREATEST gift is LOVE :-)
It is one stream and a good won, maybe not for you, though. I would not judge, though !
I remember Rodney Howard-Brown promoting the "Spirit of Laughter" through the churches in the 90's. I called out my pastor when this took place at the church I was attending and was told I did not have the gift of discernment, so I could not possibly know what God was doing. My family and I left that day and never returned. I have been very vocal in my area about cultish teachings and the perverting of God's teachings and his word. Keep doing what you are doing!
Ummm...how was it a "teaching"? Secondly, if the Spirit of God made them laugh in joy,why are you against that? I'm really just curious. Reasoning being is in late 2005 I met a true prophet who spoke at my church. Her name was Mrs. Pearl she was about a 40 year old petite African American woman. Two minutes into her sermon her voice changed and the Spirit of God fell on her MIGHTILY. She spoke and knocked EVERYONE ( almost 300 people that day) to the floor. You could feel this Spirit of God EVERYWHERE in the church. She prophesied a lot,to different people in the crowd then called for anointing oil and began laying hands on people. I went up three separate times. The first time she touched me I just felt : Love... It was a memory from my youth when I had been about six years old. On that day I was riding around with my mom,and sister and her friend and her kids in her mini-van we were in a subdivision near the border of the town they lived and rounded a corner and when we did I saw the largest wall of honeysuckles I had ever seen in my short life. The HOLY Spirit had touched me that day,but I never knew it. Till that prophet laid hands on Me. I just felt love and remembered the memory. It was God. He had been there all along. I shouted "I remember YOU!" The second time I fell down when she laid hands on me and all I felt was just pure happiness. The THIRD TIME when she laid hands on me I fell down again and I laughed. It was like a child-like joy. There was nothing really hysterical about it. I'm 110% certain what touched me was the Spirit of Almighty God. Theres no denying it,and God left nothing to confusion. Now my question is. Why would you be against that? Its obvious you've never experienced it because what I experienced could in no way be confused with a work of the flesh,or any other spirit besides The Holy Spirit. To read what you wrote,and actually know what I know, its rather frightening to read what you wrote.
@@barbaraGobert31 your experience must be interpret by the bible not the bible by your experience...we are emotional beings that's great...but our emotions are not the Holly Spirit of God....no where in the bible is that behavior spiritual
I think you have to be careful not to lump everyone into the same category. This is the problem with moving from one extreme to the other. The scripture is clear about the gifts of the Spirit and out of your bellies (spirit man) would flow rivers of living water of the Holy Spirit or being dry and closed off to a move of God and the other extreme is trying to force a move of God. I have been touched by the anointing of the Latter Rain, Charismatic, and Joy move of God. I can tell you with an absolute conviction aligned with scripture that these were true.
Nobody in the Bible falls backwards except the arrest team that goes after Jesus.
Everyone is either on their knees or their face. Many times trembling.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.
SELF-CONTROL!
All manifestations involving loss of SELF-CONTROL is NOT the Holy Spirit. You only need scripture to have discernment. Thus "Holy Laughter" "Slain in the Spirit" and all other strange things where people lost SELF-CONTROL was an act, total rubbish emotionalism or a different spirit. (Danger: It was Not the Holy Spirit.) Do not follow them.
In fact, without quoting scripture, you KNEW this was unbiblical and suspect, you demonstrate you had the gift of discernment right then and there (and bravery for standing up to him), and that pastor did not!
What she described about them getting her to try and “see her angels” sounds exactly like what I did when I learned mediumship and chanelling. Thank God He saves 🤍
It's because it is mediumship under the label of "christian." It sounds like a Reiki technique. You have to be careful. There's guinine gifts from God; however, there's also great occult deception. Just read the bible & pray.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld spot on. Ive been a "Reiki master and teacher 3rd and 4th grade in the line of Mikao Usui". I did channeling, angel encounters, all the crazy demonic stuff they celebrate at Bethel Church. Its absolutely, exactly the same. The teaching, the practises, the spirits, the sensations, the warmth, the supernatural experiences, the being fooled- and the one Jenn Johnson declares to be "silly, funny, sneaky, blue" is actually occuring violet and his name is the name of an old alchemist, connected to free masonery, which is as mask again. (Lord St. Germain/Lord Well done). Its a trap of Satan, and i will wonder till the last day whether Bill Johnson has been trapped and blinded and fooled- or if he is a very clever Reiki Master mocking christians. I dunno. I really dunno. Its up to Jesus to know his heart and true intentions. I cannot see into his true motives at all. I know, those spirits of "ascended masters and angel energies" really draw you in and totally destroy your possibilities to see the truth. And yes: There are genuine gifts from God. But they are all pointing to the authority of Jesus Christ alone and NEVER contradict the bible nor fulfil selfish striving for exaltation.
So what do you think about Elisha praying "Open his eyes, Lord" over his servant Gehazi? Was that also mediumship or channeling?
No, they are completely different. Her roommates were not praying that she would host angels in her body or have angels speak through her mouth.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld You also have to be careful about the out--of--control shaking that goes on in Churches like Bethel...This reminds me of the "Kundalini" stuff that some Hindus and Sufi's do.......
One of the Fruits of the Spirit is SELF--CONTROL...I don't see a whole lot of this in "Bethel" or "Blazing Fire.."
This young woman has a story that needs to be heard! She can speak to her generation with wisdom beyond her years! I pray for open doors for her and that nothing will blindside her!
I agree! She is so well-spoken at age 18.
100%
Yes if they would have LET her speak (more)
@@alybaker1YES!!! I was hoping I wasn’t the only one that thought that. Very frustrating!
I've lived in a very similar cult and it was rough. The social pressure to have the "signs" is so intense. I'm so glad I could get out and can enjoy the freedom in Christ that comes through the gospel.
Same!
You one of those poor folks who couldnt speak in tongues? I never understood that about the UPC. Its just one sign. Paul himself says not all speak in tongues. Love is the greatest gift.
Yes just as Simon (Petros the small stone said later when was able to allude to the miracle He saw when Jesus transfigured Himself to have a conversation with Moses and Elijah and God the Father said to all 3 fishermen including James and John. Listen this my son in whom I am well pleased . The Father reminding them Your Father in heaven is setting up this vision He shared with them. Peter tells us far greater then any miracle is the Word of God and His Commands . God was showing His kingdom coming to earth and how the scenario of Moses and Elijah who held fast to every word that came from the mouth of God is how we obtain the mind of Christ as His every Word is the bread of Life . The Logis become flesh and dwelt among us. Miracles of God are not secondary but miracles is not foremost for God to call and choose justify and sanctify on earth. We do not believe in miracles nor perform miracles to become a heir to Gods kingdom. We believe in Jesus who is the Way the TRUTH and Life eternal. We all do not do miracles but we all plant seeds of truth according to the Word of God and not our precepts that always turn to self indulgence. The worst sermon I ever heard Bill Johnson make and all of his sermons nauseate me though I have no anger towards him is when he did a commentary on John Chapter 6. He completely misconstrues the meaning of the phrase when Jesus say you must eat my flesh and drink my blood which taken literally is shocking but when Jesus walks up to those who were murmuring within earshot . Jesus said my words are spirit. Meaning I’m not speaking in the tangible . The flesh profits nothing. Obviously Jesus did not say here bite my forearm and begin eating my flesh and drink my blood. Of course many had heard enough sermons from Rabbi Jesus that would never even teach to consume the blood of an animal . So Jesus immediately told them I am speaking figuratively. The Passover supper Jesus had with His disciples breaking bread and sharing the cup of wrath with his chosen showing them what His body would go through as He would defeat death and sin for mankind proving the agape love ❤️ that no one but God could do in the flesh . God does not resemble mankind . Mankind is made in the image and likeness of God.
Im watching videos like this because my parents and brother are all in on bethel. I was raised in the assembly of God church and was always told about how great bethel was. My family moved to austin and joined their church. Earlier this year my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and, thank you Lord, she is in remission after undergoing chemo. During that time i struggled with faith because they would tell me that its God's will that everyone be healed by faith. I then learned that Bill Johnson's wife recently died of cancer. I panicked because it meant that if my mother died, maybe it was because i lacked faith. That lead to many prayer sessions where i cried my eyes out for guidance, because i believed if my mom died, that my faith would die with her. But it was also during that time when i began to question the rationale and began to learn to rely on scripture. So now i struggle with how best to minister to them when bethel's grip is so ironclad and was enlarged with my mother going into remission. So now i study the word to prepare myself for spiritual warfare. Pray for me and my family.
I had this awesome experience with God, I'm deathly ill and I've night I was scared beyond measure. Prayed to the Lord and I felt what felt like a heavy blanket of peace upon me. Upon going to sleep I felt a burst of a liquid loving living light fill me up and I could see a golden light. Never experienced love like that in my life!
Thats awesome man. What's sad is most of the people on here wouldn't believe you. I know youre telling the truth.
@@barbaraGobert31
That is still an experience and scripture tells us to trust the Bible not our experiences.
The greatest “experience” felt or witnessed in all of human history was by Peter, James and John seeing Jesus’ transfiguration (Matthew 17:2) and yet in 2 Peter 1:18-20 Peter explains this experience and goes on to say we have the prophetic word made MORE sure (the Bible). The Bible is surer than any human experience.
I have experienced unexplainable things as well, but I am not to rely on those experiences. I have no way other than God’s word to know for certain what He is saying or what His will is.
I grew up for 26 years in a setting similar to Bethel, so I’m not unfamiliar with this way of thinking. By God’s complete grace He opened my eyes.
@@barbaraGobert31 I’m one of the skeptics. I don’t think it’s sad when someone reserves judgment on things that are not in the scriptures.
I think it’s sad that people gullibly conclude that something is directly from God without even asking what the person believes about themselves, God, and the gospel. There are a lot of false converts having experiences that give them false assurance of salvation.
I also don’t confuse one-off events with spiritual gifts.
@John Eldred well, I do know I should of died, but here I am everyday. God saved my life and He is healing me of the damage I sustained. What did that light do for me? Well it was comforting. How do I know it was God? I read His word and talk to Him daily.
She's 18 years old? Wow. Very mature. I like how level-headed she is, like a bulldog holding on to the word of God.
What? That is impressive. She looks and talks like she‘s 25.
Being a former Bethel student I had to watch this. I became closer to God when I left bethel. Most of my former classmates have walked away from God.
People walk away from the Lord because they want to. If they truly knew the Lord they would not walk away from him. They clearly never knew him in the first place. It is not the job of any church to bring anyone closer to the Lord. We are responsible for our own relationship with him.
EDIT: two years of following Jesus can change things drastically as we increase in wisdom. I don’t totally agree with my statement... I think church leaders have an incredibly high level of responsibility as they are called (usually) to nurture and feed the sheep. Lots of deception in these last days. May we as the body of Christ never submit ourselves fully to ONE movement or ONE church but be open to the full council of the Word and not just hang around in one stream for too long. God has so much for us! (This is not a knock on Bethel, I went to the school and found my home in Redding but if you are looking for solid Word teaching then you probably won’t get it- Bill and Kris have a specific mission and mandate, so when you don’t feel you are being fed move on, don’t go and cry about it to the rest of the world, I’ve had to learn this the hard way)
Also if you are abandoning your faith in Jesus you either never knew Him or you’re in love with the world... REPENT before it’s too late.
H T. II how is a Trinitarian church preaching against the scriptures?
@@H.T.2forever
Seek *FIRST* The Kingdom of God. If you sincerely desire to *know* and *follow* Jesus... THEN return to asking Yah to guide you into all truth-including what The Living Word of God says and does not say. 1) Accept Jesus Christ as Messiah - The Living God who is Salvation. Jesus is the perfect judge. He is the one who made all things. He is the one who holds all things together. He made all things for Himself. He is worthy of all praise. As you walk as a surrendered disciple of Jesus, then, The Holy Spirit is the helper and the still small voice is your guide.
2) It is Jesus Christ of Nazareth that is THE Head of the church. Not a pastor, not a guru, not a theology, not a system of thought, not an affiliation, not a demonination or denomination, not the opinions of man. Opinions (mine, yours) and Religions of Man are going to leave you dry and will keep you from beholding The Lamb of God. The verses from the Bible will either make you new or they won't. You are either for Jesus or your against him. If you are seeking outside things (ascertaining theologies -looking laterally at people, offering up your opinions and critique's of denominations and faith's, yet you are not picking up your cross, dying to self daily and following Jesus, you are not going to partake in life more abundantly.
There is authority to speak God's Justice and mercy. Or there is giving your opinions about the trappings of religion while not speaking at all about the heart of the issue. Which one will you choose?
There is a way that seems right to a man but leads straight to death.
So are you born again?
Thank you for replying.
BROSIAH have you read Luke 8? It seems your buddies were not rooted in God and fell away.
Is todd white legit?
I think as soon as someone tells you they rely on a feeling, then its dangerous.
Honestly, I just got out of a very bethel group, and hearing your story is helping me greatly. Right now, your speaking the true word of God, because it is biblical, truthful, and it will help people truly find God.
Rick Warren , in his book The Purpose Driven Life, said that God uses your experience even more than the Bible to teach you things. I immediately was bothered by this statement when I read it. There was no way that could be true since my experience does not lead me to truth. Only God’s Holy and infallible Word leads me to truth. My experiences must be tested by his word. So this is an example of what you were saying about this type of teaching that pays lip service to the scriptures while undermining them in these subtle ways (which really are not that subtle and should be discerned by Christ followers). Thank you for these broadcasts that are so helpful and informative.
Very well stated. Rick Warren is more subtle in his heresy and says a lot of true things but it is odd that once you analyze a few false teachers, you can usually detect most any false teacher within a minute of hearing them spew their lies and manipulation.
Woow your comment is really meaningful
Woow your comment is really meaningful
@@JK-cz6bu.....yes you can...Amen!!!
Rice Warren is a member of the CFR and a Freemason. Satanic NWO organizations. Bethel church is different, it is a beautiful community of believers.
It is almost scary hearing this testimony because I can almost relate to some of the things that she is describing. I came really close to embracing the ultra-charismatic prophetic practices, but it all lead to confusion and manipulation. I give thanks to God for leading me back to his word!!!
Ugh me too.
We thank God for delivering you out. Glory be to God
Once one gets outside the Word of God, they end up in the false teachings of the charismatic movement.
I STUDY God's Word. And I do work in the prophetic. I am still young in this gift, however, when God uses me, most people will look at me know ask...How did I know that? God is good!
@@CarnivoreNana "Clouds Without Water." Check it out on CZcams. Also there is such a thing as a familiar spirit that is not from God.
First, thank you to the guys who host this program and brought on this guest! Lindsay, thank you for having the courage to publicly share your experience and testimony! Stay true to the bible and His word. "Peace be with you."
Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry sounds like Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
It does make it tempting. 🤣
Pretty much the same in God’s eyes
nts
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SHELBY HAMBRIGHT
To All reading this post.
The Gifts are not what the Holy Spirit has ..they are WHO HE IS..HIS VERY CHARACTER AT WORK. He uses his character to flow through His children to the body to comfort, encourage and give boldness to witness.PERIOD. It is not a magic show or a badge of Holier than though. Yes people fake, yes people seek a sign but not the relationship. Yes this woman was wrong to say "make it up" Yes the video poster was wrong to say all Gods children can not phrophesy. But LET EVERY MAN AND WOMAN NE A LIAR BUT MY WORD BE TRUE. The bible says as Paul is recorded to say"EAGERLY SEEK THE GIFTS ESPECIALLY PROPHESY. Not for the gifts sake, not for our egos sake, not for a show, but to encourage, and embolden believers to witness.
The bible says now we see through a cloud darkly. Phrophesy will cease when we see HIM FACE TO FACE and we will know HIM even as we are known. It is wrong to throw out Gods word based on the actions of people. Do not accuse a whole group of people based on your experience.That is biased and stereotyping. Instead I encourage you to FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIND where God gives to believers in Christ His Holy Spirit to those who ASK HIM.And that when Paul went to Cornelius home that was already a Christian friend he asked Cornelius "have you received the HOLY SPIRIT SINCE YOU BELIEVED" if Paul is wrong here through out ALL Paul said. The Baptism christ received when he was dipped in water is available today after your salvation forgiveness experience. The gifts ARE still in operation and fakes and thrill seekers are nothing new. Not a sign of the times it happened back then and will.continue until He takes all His children Home. Be careful .Guard your words.Thus saith the Lord. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
...OR a new version of the OTO
Already within the first minute I'm shocked, and I've watched an (if not this specific one) interview with her before. She got KICKED. OUT. For sharing the GOSPEL. That is absolutely shocking. But at the same time, it makes perfect sense considering all the heresy... heartbreaking
I was not there (and neither were you), so I don’t know what was said, but any message that denounces the role of Holy Spirit in the Church is NOT “the gospel” but, instead, is heresy.
@@NB-no7lh What you believe about the Holy Spirit is not the Gospel. John writes down in black and white what the Gospel is.
*For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life*
Nowhere in the that verse does it say what the Holy Spirit does within the church.
Your beliefs seem to be an idol that is changing the Gospel into what you want it to be.
I want to comment on this young lady and her bravery to face this issue with such grace and dignity. I won’t go into my story but will say I was involved in a hyper faith cult back in the 80s and I so relate to the experiences of coming out of a cult. I am so moved over by her knowledge of what was revealed to her of the spiritual darkness and to find her way out. I want to thank you for this video and will pray that those who are caught up in this cult will hear what is being said. May she never question that God gave her light and the ability to articulate with such ability and knowledge beyond her spiritual age in such a short time frame. You go girl! God has called you to this challenge. My prays will be for you!
I was in a NAR church for 9 years. Kris Valiton came to our church he prayed for me to have my leg grow. (I have Cerebral Palsy) nothing happened.
I’m sorry that you didn’t see the miracle you were hoping for. I have seen this miracle in person and it is real. I hope you see your miracle one day and if you don’t I hope you know that you are loved🤍
Wow!....i have been through a VERY similar experience for 30 years. I did and still can "speak in tongues" if someone asked me to demonstrate it. And fell over "by the Spirit" 😢. Only by God's grace have i truly become born again and live my life by the Word and turn from sin in the last 3 years.
1 year ago, i have been diagnosed with a stage 4 brain tumor that docs can't do anything about. They gave me 6 months to live....1 year and 1 month ago. I wake up each morning thanking God that He gave me another day to be a father i never had and minister to my young kids....to teach them and warn them of what false teachings their teachers in science will teach them on evolution....and to watch out for churches with false doctrines....TEST EVERYONE by God's WORD! If it was not demonstrated for us in the Word.."watch out!"...tongues were demonstrated totally different than what charasmatics teach. I am not afraid of death... personally i look forward in being with my Creator. But i know everytime i open my eyes, God is not done with me yet. I still have time as long as i breath to make fishers of men. Thanks brother Jeff, i've learnt many things from you...and also one of my favorite youtubers...Ray Comfort from Living Waters.
What an incredible testimony. As things become darker we need oil in our lamps. Develop a close relationship with the Holy spirit, reading the word of God and fellowship with other true believers. God has your back and we need to have a filter, discern everything, be narrow minded bible believing. Teach your kids and whatever happens they’ll always return to Jesus. Bless you you friend.
Pray Jesus for healing. It doesn't cost you a penny.
@@sophieca6906 Thanks for the advice, i have my whole church and people in other countries praying for me including my kids, wife and myself. Praying we Christians are allowed,...but overall let His will be done. God knows if it is best for me to take me now or in few years. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie "The Pilgrim's progress" by John Bunyan... fantastic film 👌. Nothing beats being with "the King" for eternity.
God bless you!❤
@@savedwretch all love to you, in Jesus loving name.
God began opening my eyes about Bethel last fall when I was listening to their music to worship. It wasn't just them he was opening my eyes about it was also hillsong and Joyce M.
Be weary of Elavation too. I don't know if you come across them as well but they are in the same league.
bethel church needs serious help
I remember the day my eyes were opened to just how much Joyce Meyer looks like the joker with all her makeup
What is the issue with Joyce Meyer and hillsong church? I had no idea!
Joyce Meyer is definitely a wolf in sheeps clothing can we get an Amen about Joel Osteen too?
The way we discern if something is of God is by the Word of God- and that my friends sums up this amazing interview. This whole “I feel God told me...” language has infiltrated so many churches even really biblical sound churches. I’ve caught myself saying it too. Woo! This was a good one!
God spoke to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped speaking to people. God revealed Himself to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped revealing Himself to people. God performed miracles Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped performing miracles. The answer is He hasn't.
@@gabrielgibson3479 Exactly. I agree there is a lot of misuse of the words 'God told me...' and it's kind of become Christianese for 'what I feel is true...' BUT that doesn't mean that God doesn't speak to people.
@@gabrielgibson3479 You are spot on, Brother. This is about people being uncomfortable with the supernatural and not wanting to know Holy Spirit. The Church has put the word “the” or “Your” in front of Holy Spirit and refers to Him as an “it”, but Holy Spirit is just as much a person as JESUS and plays the greater role in this dispensation. Christ completed the work at the cross and left us with the gift of Holy Spirit, but many Christians are being as spoiled little brats on Christmas morning, complaining about the gift they’ve received. Cessation is a false doctrine purveyed by Christians who do not know Holy Spirit. So you don’t like tongues. So what! It is not up to you! Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:39, “Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” (NKJV) You are commanded NOT to forbid speaking in tongues. Churches that do so are in sin and GOD will deal with them.
God sent me to pray over Bethel on Feb. 2019. As a recipient of one of their daughter churches, I have repented and left this Emergent Movement. I'm glad to see the fruit of others leaving also.
I learned so much I didn’t even know that I needed to learn. This put holy fear in me and makes me want to read and pray even more. These doctrines and false prophets are so dangerous, God have mercy and deliver us.
Amen.
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible Jesus is the foundation of truth, and He is the Word of God.
John 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
I enjoyed watching this, especially Lindsay's continued pressing for truth and rejection of falsehood. Most 18 year olds are not in this place I suspect.
She's amazingly wise-beyond-her-years.
She has a very strong gift of discernment.
@@sanramoncali eh... not so sure about the discernment
I started going to a charismatic church,I got saved in that church and then saved from that church!All the best to all of you and stay true to the Lord!
I am a defector from bethel as well. And I can tell you that what she's saying is absolutely correct. I just hope and pray that I can find other believers that understand these false doctrines and teachings that have spread across the nation like wildfire.
*ya theres a lot of crap thats caught fire -- Flaky Charismatics, Flaky Reformers, Flaky Calvinists, Flake Cessationists. Its a total CRAP fire. I agree.*
No church is perfect. Every church has humans, so every church has flaws. You have to decide what you are and aren’t willing to give up. I’ll give you one guideline: Overemphasizing love will not correct error, but emphasizing truth will lead you to the importance of love.
@@ricksonora6656 sorry that logic is flawed. You cannot tell me that father God was wrong when he said if anyone brings a different doctrine other than what was taught consider them a curse. There is no middle ground here. There is no room for your reasoning and logic of what you think is right and wrong. It's according to the word of God. And the Lord is very clear how he feels about those that mislead the sheep and teach contrary to what he says in his word. They are curse and we are to have nothing to do with them.
@@JOSHUAloves1 Enjoy your church of one. No, wait… you’d better not join it, because as soon as you do, it will get corrupted.
I really appreciate hearing her testimony here. I also left a Bethel school. It was a sister school of Bethel and it was nuts. It's validating to hear that my concerns had/have substance.
when jesus was tempted by the devil, he used scripture purposefully to teach us the power of Gods word.
louis hart Boom. Yes. Your comment is literally the only one needed to be read here.
Not when you're writing Jesus' name with a lower case j
@@Whol3NothaL3v3l I really don't think Jesus took or takes any offense to a lower case J being used. I do, however, think that He would take offense to your nasty comment. Judge not lest ye be judged.
@@donnacaulfield9229 that was nasty? Lol
I was in a cult/church that was very closely involved with IHOP and other spin off prayer rooms and it nearly destroyed my faith. Finally sitting down and ready through the Bible last year (almost 8 years after getting out of it) I finally learned the simplicity of the Gospel and it’s good news! I no longer feel wrong or without enough faith because I have a chronic genetic condition that on earth isn’t healed, but now I can accept that God can work through my illness to witness to others and be encouraging to others. I can see His plan and focus on glorifying Him and saving others rather than be self centered and focused on me. How I missed the mark from false teaching so easily. Thankful every day I’m out of that oppressive environment.
How were they very closely involved with IHOP? Lol
Have you ever been to IHOP or listened to Mike Bickle?
@@elizabetht9734 yes, heard Mike Bickle many times. Our “church” hosted them many times, participated in the same events, held Holy Spirit conferences and music conferences with them, etc. Many people from that “church” went off to IHOP for “schooling” aka brainwashing and every time they did some sort of concert or conference our “church” was there participating and our “church” often took donations for IHOPKC. The leader of this “church” I went to for many years met with and was friends (and allies basically) with the IHOPKC leadership. Sadly, some coming from false religions fell into this whole movement thinking it was true Christianity. My soul aches for them. I got out of it many years ago after over a decade of being exposed to such twisting of the Word. I left church and denounced Christianity from this whole false doctrine movement for over a year. It wasn’t until last year (7-8 years after leaving that cult) that I was able to understand better the lies and twists of Scripture by finally picking up my Bible and actually reading it in context from cover to cover. Reading the Bible in context helps expose the lies they preach based on cherry picking verses and twisting them to fit their own made up theology. It isn’t Biblical. I thank God every day that my eyes were finally opened and now my entire family is out of that mess.
It is great that she is willing to share her story. It is not easy to talk about yourself being decieved for so long. It is humbling but important. Hats off to her.
Bless you so much dear sister. This video popped up after l spent all day yesterday in prayer about coming out openly with my deep concern about Bethel. I pray in Jesus name that the Lord uses your testimony to save many many countless people from the different Gospel. I too was lead into this chaos seeking a Church after being saved. It never really sat right in my spirit.
Praise God for bringing this young woman out of this movement!
We have unsaved people seeking God while avoiding repentance. The God of the Bible is a wonderful God! But He will not stroke your ego. He doesn't have to bend to your sinful nature to be a beautiful God. And He is Great and mighty. But you have to be humble and repentant. The God of the Bible resists the proud
Well said
Amen Sister!!
I don't think that is what this video is about.
Sidenote: FYI repentance doesn't save you and without receiving the wisdom from God and the holy spirit, whose job it is to convict. Most new believers do not know the depths of their wickedness until sanctification occurs.
I don't think the issue is lack of repentance, I think it is straying from the Lord, the word, and not allowing the Spirit to lead them to repentance. The issue is allowing emotions to lead instead of God.
Very true
Amen sister
What a thoughtful, intelligent, truth-seeking young woman! Just finished listening to “Strange Fire” by John MacArthur, and you are definitely exposing the dangers of “using” the Holy Spirit for our own selfish, misguided purposes.
Using the holy spirit for our misguided I think u said desires, that statement made me think about that passage in the bible where people are saying to jesus, haven't I healed the sick in your name and raised the dead in your name and jesus said get away from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you.
When she was telling us about the so called “holy laughter” How they were laughing and cackling while pointing at her was just like that demonic movie The Evil Dead.
Yeah I was listening to this and dozing off very relaxed when suddenly the "holy laughter" woke me straight up and gave me the chills and goosebumps. I thought what the heck is that? I looked at the video and turned the volume down. Not good.
I think that was Kamala doing the cackling.
This is a very responsible conversation. Those of us within the Charismatic Movement can learn a lot from this and allow the Lord to refine our language and practice. Bless you.
SA Tabernacle With David Lee Brown facts!! I also think it’s very important to differentiate between what Bethel teachers through its leadership and what members/students practice
There's always something to be learned. Bill Johnson says it regularly, he has a lot of critics and instead of reacting to them he looks for some hint of truth he can learn from. I hope this group of CZcamsrs would do the same.
@@HezUhlive22 God does not compromise his word, nor partner with darkness or the doctrines of DEMONS!!!!
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible
I'll address some of your points.
Scriptures don't have to say they're the foundation of truth but they ARE. Catholics didn't write the Bible. Where'd you get that from?
The catholic church is the largest, most deceiving cult ever. A cult demands control, always at a price$$$.
Jesus gave us freedom through his love and grace by his work on the cross. He commands no praying to Mary or dead saints, no baptizing babies, no confessing to a priest, none of it.
Rather than spouting what Catholicism has taught you to believe, you should provide scripture.
2 Tim. 3:16.
I also want to add, I have felt alone speaking out against these churches, because of causing "dissention". I found John McArthur while I was seeking answers about this charismatic movement and then Apologia Studios. Your faithful obedience to God's word has blessed my life.
zchilli0808 John McArthur teaches that it was not Jesus blood but His death that saved us, he thinks tongues in the book of acts were evil which came from the tower of Babel, and that you can still be saved after taking the mark of the beast. I don’t call out wolves in sheeps clothing but he is someone i am cautious of
@@lukeg9667 , please inform me of when and where John McArthur made any such of these claims? Especially, that tongues in Acts was evil? I have only heard him discriminate against glossolalia. He has mentioned that the church of Corinth was being rebuked by Paul for such behaviors. John McArthur is not Jesus, so I don't expect him to be the all knowing but I have not once ever heard one of these claims. If you could give me exact references, I would like to look into them for myself. Thanks.
Lindsay has since recanted her views of Bethel and Bill Johnson and is now I'm support of them.
I saw that :(
I've seen a pastors wife whose mother had been mentally unstable in her youth and who committed suicide when she was an adult, recieve freeing and healing after moments of uncontrollable laughter. I absolutely see the problems at Bethal, but I still can't forget how healing came to my friend through laughter at that time.
PS this was 25 years ago at the time of Promisekeepers. This lady still walks with the Lord isn't driven by emotion, but by God's Word. It wasn't an experience she sought. It surprised her as much as the rest of us.
I'd like to add that I'm fully aware of the occultism Yoga laughter that is an empty dangerous experience.
I’ve had the same experience myself. I’ve had physical manifestations happen to my body when I was 100 percent seeking/focused on Jesus. Are there demonic/fake manifestations? Totally! I’ve had the most amazing fruit in my life happen after these physical manifestations. I don’t have them the last few years but I treasure those times!
Thank you for this. I find it amazing that I have been out of this type of Charasmatic church since 2011 and yet I thought they were simply Pentecostal but it took a friend to tell me just this year that it's the NAR movement, which spawned out of the Toronto blessing. Sadly my father taught us this growing up and said we have to pray till we hear God's audible response. I would lay awake for months waiting for God's voicing and cried cause I never heard it, all the while my bible sat unread. I pray for my dad that he get out of this movement, he's 76 and has been in it for over 50 years which causes me great discomfort, but I know that the Holy Spirit can move even the hardest heart. Pray that it doesn't harden it further, but more so that God's will be done.
Thank you for your testimony, I look forward to part 2.
Praying for you and your dad.
I have heard from God a few times, and his people do know his voice, but it wasn't something I conjured up, it's in God's timing, but there could be years and years in between, and that doesn't mean we should stop trusting God or being patient. And we are also supposed to test the spirits, and what you're are describing sounds like torment and oppression. Yet there are many verses in the Bible about crying out to God and he will answer, and still there are many other verses in the Bible where God says you cry out to me, but I will not hear, and it all had to do with the position of the hearts of the people and he would not hear when the people were in continual rebellious sin right up until things got bad, then they cried to God. I don't think it wise at all to harden our hearts to hearing God's voice or believing that we can, but to try to use this as a way to feel powerful, gifted, special, or ultra spiritual is wrong. Dear God renew a clean heart in us and let it never be hardened to you, but stay humble before you, not thinking of ourselves too great. I know you wrote this two years ago, but I feel gratefully convicted, Because I would get depressed and broken hearted when I didn't hear from God, but God already showed the ultimate show of love on the cross! Thank God, this is so powerful.
"Seeking the truth through the WORD." This is the key for today's culture. There is no other way. He is the WORD made flesh. This is how we abide in Him. Praise God!
Brothers and sisters read your Bible and no one can mislead you.
The ad that popped up after watching this says, "Are you ready for an unexpected healing?" Umm, no. I have to watch part two first ;-)
😂😂😂😂
❣️I am so glad that God saved you and is using you in such a beautiful way. I also came out of a dangerous cult here in South Africa and now God uses me in this sector. Thank you for laying your life and flesh down and for being obedient in what God asks of you. This isn’t an easy road to take and you are still so young, which excites me so much! To see younger people, our youth, standing up and fighting for the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ! May our Lord bless you and keep you in all your ways! Big hug all the way from South Africa! ❣️❣️❣️
Drienie, waar in Suid Afrika is jy geleë? Ek sou graag meer wil hoor?
A false Jesus cannot save. Very true.
Occultism died when it was birthed . Yesua died so we could be born after being birthed
Michel Haineault trinitarian: a person who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity. How is this not the real Jesus. God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
@@michelhaineault6654 So are you saying that there are three gods or infinate gods like mormons believe? Or perhaps three gods like the Jehovah's Witnesses believe? Do you acknowledge the deity of Jesus? Please clarify.
@@michelhaineault6654 - So . . . there is one God (Yahweh) with 3 personages, Father, Son and His Holy Spirt? Not sure where the disagreement is?
Are you questioning the eternality of Jesus? By ETERNALITY I mean that He has no beginning and no end (not timelessness as Mormonism teaches).
Cuz the Bible has a lot to say about that, if that's an issue for you.
The only fake jesus i see is what is in 90% of americas dead churxhes wake up people you can not be a pharisee. You can not find god my analyzing scripture its about spiritual relationships.
I watched this video last year. It started my journey out of the false doctrine of Bethel and into the truth. I have you to thank. ❤
I had many of the same experiences (and far stranger if you can believe it) in the word faith churches in FL that she had at Bethel. I was in Rodney Howard-Browne’s cult. Randy White and (his then wife) Paula, Reinhardt Bohnke, Joyce Meyer. The Gospel came to me like a 50 degree air conditioner on full blast after a ten hour convoy in Iraq.
Dude I was raised southern Baptist, just super vanilla. So its crazy to think one person can run into so many wacky groups. Thank God He kept her safe and got her out of there.
Apologia, I find your videos are important but frequently unclear. This video doesn't explain what Bethel is, who this person being interviewed is, or what the false gospel that Bethel teaches is. I trust you are correct in your assessment and I admire your passion, but the videos are sometimes very hard to follow for this reason. Clarity is key! Submitted with humility, God bless.
No offense bro it's not apologia's job to get you up to speed with who Bethel is, majority knows who Bethel church is except you
@@HipHopTV_Official not really.
@@HipHopTV_Official it isnt yours or apologia's job to be God and proclaim 'truth' and dismiss Bethel or others who has led more ppl to Jesus than you, as cults or false teachers. Obviously they are doing something right for you all to accuse them of being devils.
@Scraxkat fwiw, my friend at BSSM knows her, and no-one has cast any real doubt upon it (she could be easily debunked by Bethel if she hadn't attended)
@Just Me - Satan wants you to "experience" him - Nowhere does The Bible talk about "experiencing" God - This experiential movement is not grounded in The Word of God
Honestly I’m coming out of such a scene. So I’m currently a boarder at my school and due to covid none of us are allowed to leave the school and go to our respective churches. So to combat that, a few Christians started a prayer group (I started boarding at the beginning of 2021 so I found it already established). What they taught or what was the norm there is completely different to what I learn at my actual church. Like completely different.
At my church the teachings are all based on scripture and whilst I do have to learn to place what they say against scripture for myself, that’s what I believe.
Literally almost everything she went through, we have done those things. I have personally done these things; the “holy” laughter, the violent vibrations, the visions, being drunk in the spirit and even at some point “imitating God” (tbh I don’t even understand what that means anymore but at the time I copied what I thought was holy and what I thought meant you were in the spirit and God was working through you. All these things I had seen and wanted to emulate. This included dancing around in a specific way, which was something I had learned about in a conversation; being an ‘oracle’; and moving around and falling over several times)
My heart hurts just thinking about all the things I’ve done. All the times when there has been questionable and just odd things that I chose to ignore like:
-The fact that Bible study died out a loooong time ago
-People felt so out of place as if they weren’t good enough which resulted in them leaving
-Us never ever sharing the true Gospel. Not even majority of the sermons we watched.
-That insane “supernatural” things would happen at our worship nights and personally I felt a secret pride and superiority over people that chose not to attend. And I felt that way even about everyday meetings
-The fact that I felt unworthy literally 90% of the time
-And now (what God has revealed) is that we were constantly chasing something supernatural.Like a gift or ability. Constantly trying to prove you’re a Christian by manifesting these gifts. By proving your faith through works and what you can do and which gift you have.
-New people RARELY ever coming and when people come to watch the Sunday service, they leave halfway (which broke my heart). If you have no clue who Jesus is and you come to see people dancing like crazy in the front and doing their own thing (which must seem super “spiritual”) whilst you have no clue what’s going on, it’s lonely.
I’ve had conversations and overheard conversations whereby people avoid the group because they feel so ostracised and judged. It hurt me.
…………….
Literally one thing I remember is the aim to walk in the spirit but not as the Bible says, but basically walk in a different realm other than reality. Like you should walk and see angels and be separate from reality. I was there. I had “seen” angels and a which standing over someone. I don’t want to believe any of that anymore.
I actually started being skeptical of the spiritual deepness (for lack of a better word) of my actual church. Which just shows how far I had been pulled from true doctrine. At that group I relied on emotions and experiences, and God helped me see that.
Now I’ve been chosen to be a leader and I know that He has shown me these things not just for me but to share the truth and expose what is in the darkness, as she said, using scripture. I’m so grateful that God showed this to me because I’m not alone and we have to do this for His Kingdom. May He give me courage.
I know this has been soooo long but I had to get it off my chest because I can relate so hard.
I grew up liking Bethel from afar because I’ve been to the Internationa House of Prayer in KC many times. I have many friends who did the BSSM.
I do have to say however, that I watched Kris Valloton do an interview on TV where he gave a prophesy and immediately contradicted both himself and the Bible within 2 minutes. I was like: “oh no, this guy can’t keep track of what he just said and doesn’t know the Bible”. Then later I watched him lash out at people on FB who questioned him about anything - pretty ugly. That’s not someone I want to be like.
I produced a TV show, now streaming on Amazon about paranormal events and specifically created an episode about miracles, and shows “jewels” found by people at Bethel. Our South African post-production team couldn’t stop making fun of it - and honestly, it does seem pretty ridiculous. And the gems looked fake and placed there)
Mike Bickel himself at IHOP addresses all the weird spirit manifesters one time in a way that shocked me (because I thought he was all in to that - the loud “WHOAs” and the laughing and the convulsing - all the things that draw attention to someone and weren’t seen in the Bible). Mike said that the church tends to feel like a safe environment for people to act out their desires that can be more personally-led than spirit-led. That often these loud WHOAs, laughter, etc, are because someone feels comfortable to do them, rather than a manifestation of the Spirit. (I’m paraphrasing).
Do I think Bethel has God in it. Yes. God use donkeys, he used me, he uses Bethel. Have most of my friends been disappointed my Bethel and their BSSM? Yes. But that could be based on their expectations. Does Bethel seem to impact their community positively? Yes. Does Bethel seem to focus more on feelings than being strongly founded in the Word? Yes. Which is why there are such underlying issues - the foundation isn’t there. Is Kris Valloton probably a great guy who hears from God sometimes? Yes. But not in the two times I saw him, but we’re all human - it was just red flags for me as someone trying to be a leader.
The book “the Final quest” had a great image of different ledges on a mountain, and how we defend our own ledge. Bethel is ledge, not the destination, but someplace that an ASPECT of Christianity is done right. A place to learn that and move on to other places that can round you out in your journey
Why don’t you have a bethel pastor on? I think you’d be surprised by what you hear directly from them.
They have refused multiple times despite invitations.
I understand they won’t do the kind of interviews that would expose them...watch Bethel on CZcams, listen to the podcasts, you’ll see and hear it is not the word from Christ. In fact bethel pastors don’t even preach with an open bible, that in itself is a huge red flag.
@@tracys7057 TRACY ..... WITHOUT A DOUBT, ..... YOU ARE AN IGNORANT MORON.
Maryam Maghen Bill doesn’t have to answer to ppl like Lindsay, cultish, you or anyone in religious bondage and lies. He has God and the fruit of the Spirit of the multitudes of ppl touched by the Holy Spirit to justify His harvest into God. He and anyone else have more important things to do for God than to pay any attention to religious devils.
They are biblically reckless. Anyone who really knows the word has the same concerns.
The Holy Spirit shouldn’t be ignored in the church and I think that a lot of times He is. I will admit, as an 18 year old who has been thinking about joining BSSM for a few years now, that some things such as the Honey Pot are very weird, but I am not going to think something is demonic simply because it isn’t normal. That’s what many Jews did to Jesus. So right now I’m at a point where I understand that God is NOT restricted by the works in his word, but he IS restricted by what he has already said about his nature. In other words, God does not contradict himself, but he is always capable of doing more than we can comprehend. Nothing in this interview really changed my mind and made me think that Bethel is a cult, but I will definitely dive into the other interviews with the same hunger for biblical truth.
I think that these videos will help you. These videos are actual footage taken at Bethel of what they believe to be the "holy spirit". So frightening and disturbing.
czcams.com/video/i-cXyCCLK3w/video.html
czcams.com/video/16H84rcaqyk/video.html
czcams.com/video/vtWEu_m9-H4/video.html (steffany gretzinger is in this one starting at 8:55)
czcams.com/video/VZkgY-bP7yk/video.html
czcams.com/video/vbEpJU1UMR0/video.html
Honestly, this isnt even scratching the surface on what you kind find coming from Bethel
Bethel is a cult and there is tons and tons of proof out there on it and has been for Years..all you have to do is look. Heck allot of it is on there website.. Watching people going through the Kundalini Spirit worship stuff is enough, and that's tied to Hinduism and other types of worship with spirits. "Grace Soaking" just look that up yourself. Fire Tunnels, smoking the Spirit...it's kind of like Scientology, once your in getting out is harder than getting in . Cults prey on the weak. Always gave always will that's how Satan works.
@@Loves2HugItOut Amen, show the proof, expose and rebuke
Grave Soaking I meant ..sorry about misspellings
thank you for this episode, my sister is part of Bethel and has been for years. she can't even think for herself
Thank you, Lindsey, for having the courage to share your story. I was strongly grounded in the word of God with strong discernment. The Lord had me stay and challenge authority in place, pointing to His Word... until I was given an ultimatum. Submit to authority or leave. I said even if it means contradicting the Word of God? I was told yes, even then. You have given me dignity where others threw me away for staying true to God's Word. I've never found anyone who understands, literally the process, of walking through this out there. Thank you!
I would like to hear this Church's side of the story about your time there...their opinion of what you were doing and saying...
I believe these types of conversations are very dangerous, they look a lot more like gossip rather than rebuke.
Justin I thought I was the only one who would say things like this. Conversations, prayer requests, etc can all look like it’s a good thing but actually it’s gossip.
Jessie Alexander how much time have you spent at bethel or submitted under Bill Johnson? When it comes to the prophectic if you don’t fully know it’s best to keep quiet. Gods nots in heaven applauding this because these skeptics know everything. Maybe there are communities in the church with great revelation of mysteries.
@Justin no absolutely not God is speaking to me right now because I came to this conclusion earlier in the day and it's no accident that I came to this video right now. this is confirmation that God spoke to me earlier today and this is exposing false teaching. and the Bible says that we are supposed to expose that. Now THAT is actually a command and Jesus' own standard.
Justin Little trolls always arrive in the group together right? so you can pretend to back each other up as if like strangers.
No. You're lying. And you KNOW that you're koolaid drinking defensive trolls.
@Justin And to answer your question I've been to Bethel, I can spot you a mile away. Memorized all the classic manipulative phrases designed to distract and insult. I could recite them to you in my sleep.
I've been there for years I've got personal experience. Absolutely attacked anybody who read their own Bible and thinks accordingly with what IS written. Like the rest of the world does. Not like any group or Jim Jones and crew.
You. ARE. AFRAID. Of the TRUTH getting leaked about forced theories. Open your Bible and spend three whole hours reading it and learn something for yourself.
Lindsay thank you for sharing your experience and the testimony of Gods grace, mercy and forgiveness.
I’m so incredibly thankful for her testimony of coming out of this teaching. Thank you Jesus for keeping your hand of protection on this young Lady. If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed.
My family and I experienced something similar to this. We were surrounded by people jumping around and holding hands forming circles around people. I remember in one particular instance we were praying for someone and I kept feeling someone push me. I would look around and there was no one there. The church fell apart maybe two to three years later. This particular movement was dead within a matter of months but the experience led to a bad move in leadership attributing their leadership to a great move of God. Looking back it was not God and leadership should never have been changed.
This was great. Watched the whole thing. I hope y'all remember to include how the confrontation went down when she got kicked out in the next episode!
Zu
LAST DAYS!! Keep your eyes open, guard your heart, test all things against the Word of God! I’ve been Saved all my life and had no idea until recently, that these churches & movements existed. My heart & spirit is so grieved. I can’t believe how many people are following these False Prophets, Teachers & Preachers! READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
people watch this and say "so what leave these people alone, theyre doing what makes them happy."
but they are lost. if you can be deceived by a little truth to be taken by the whole lie its of satan
It's heartbreaking to think there are people who go thru life frightened & worried.
When someone tells you God told me to tell you..... I would say well God can speak to me too and He hasn’t told me that.
That ain't right either bud
My response would be this, "Let me stop you right there, I hope you're aware of who you're claiming to speak for". Deut. 13 & 18.
Yeah right!!... This so called prophesies can come with very disturbing news that'll make you depressed sleepless throughout the night!
This is great. I'm waiting on part two! You are a strong woman in Christ 💓
I had the saddest experience with the bethel church leaders. They covered up for my ex husband Larry Randolph. He walked out on me to marry Laura Erwin . A woman they were housing for Laura from TBN . She was supposedly have been make up artist. Any way the victim is always at fault. Larry Randolph lied about me to justify his divorce. It was an experience of exposing the whole movement. Every one lied about me. They didn't even know me. What was so amazing, I had prophesied the adult that was to take place, to the leaders or staff.
A fantastic interview~ and with love as well. Awesome Job Lindsey and the Cultish team! ❤️🕊🙏🏻
When you actually hear the voice of God it’s humbling and really doesn’t give room for pride. remember Jesus said, my sheep hear my voice
“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.”
John 10:27 NLT
With much respect, read that whole chapter. Jesus is talking about the salvation of His sheep, not about a one-on-one communication with God. For the record, no, I am not advocating that God doesn't or won't speak directly to His people, but I'm simply pointing out that John 10 is not talking about communication with God. Also, I have reason to believe that although I believe that God can and will speak directly to His people if He so we'll chooses, I also have reason to believe that it is not something that we should be expecting as a normal part of everyday life.
well*
@@jacobgarcia4826 I agree! I’ve been a Christian since childhood and I can remember ONE TIME when I clearly heard him speak to me, in a direct and specific matter. It was during a conference, during a speech on baptism- I heard God telling me to interrupt the speaker and ask to be baptized- long story short, I didn’t want to, but I did it after further prompting. Interrupting him in front of 500+ people. He agreed to baptize me in the hotel fountain when he was done. 50 other people showed up to be baptized and the pastor I had interrupted thanked me afterwards for listening to God in that moment- he said he had been praying and felt that God was promising him he would baptize 200 people that year and was having trouble believing it. If I had doubted what I heard was God, after that I wouldn’t have
It's them talking most of the time - I would have preferred to let her talk more ...
I don't agree, it's a good interview
Ive used the phrase "dont put God in a box" but more in the sense of "dont take Gods word out of context and limit what God has the capability of doing"
This reminded me of Freedom City Church in Whittier California. God is so good, and my Bible became my oxygen machine after departing from this mental institution.Thanks so much for this guys, God bless you all.
I had a totally different experience at bethel! I did all 3 years of their school and found their was a strong emphasis on the word of God and the importants of being grounded in what it says.
Looks nutty to me
I went to the global school of supernatural ministry for 2 years. They emphasized the importance of learning how to interpret scripture. We also prayed for the sick, learned about and prophesied over lots of people. Jesus said as the Father has sent me so send I you. I also experienced personally trying to make manafestations happen, that is immature, but so are middle schoolers. Growing takes time.
@@crystaliz3dgreen Also a GSSM student. I can attest to the strong commitment to balance word and spirit, much in the way my BSSM peers feel as well. We are all on a journey of trusting the process and growing in humility as we let the Lord radiate through us.
@@FilmBuffClassic you are in a CULT
Joseph Sherry you are deceived. Study the Bible on your own without heretics teaching you.
Wow, her experience resonates deeply within me. I had very similar experiences, and almost nihilism, when I discovered Mormonism was not true and was all a lie and made up by man. I had given almost 34 years to it . I was dead and lost, and my family was extremely terrified for me and about me.
For about 3 months I felt like I was catapulted into the dark unknown regions of the universe without an anchor. Praise be to God the voice inside my head kept asking over and over "Well then, who or what is Jesus, really?" It launched me into discovering the evidences for the Bible and for the claims of Jesus and his disciples- and the total Divinity of Christ and the true gospel.
I was saved after believing the words of Jesus in the Bible and then I knew they applied to me as one of his sheep given eternal life through his work and death.
I am now attending seminary courses, teaching Sunday School in a Reformed Church, and leading men's bible study. This episode really moved me to tears seeing what God does through our Brokenness. God is too great for words, but words of Praise we must give him because of the spirit within us that cries " Abba ,Father!" In spirit and in truth. Thank you Lindsay!
Amen!
I worked on an ambulance in Redding, CA where the Bethel headquarters are. BOY OH BOY, do I have stories. I can't break HIPPA but we weren't allowed to split up from our partner when we got calls there. Also, if they called us to their campus, they'd follow us around with security to make sure we didn't go anywhere or see anything they didn't want us to.
Any room we had to go through, they would clear out before we walked through so nobody could talk to us.
100% one time we saw a worker there with a bag of feathers they use for their miracles on command, angel feathers from the ceiling.
Did you ever see any glitter?
@kerisutt7579 haha, yes we did. From their other 'miracles'
Ten years ago, a friend invited me to a church that turned out to be a NAR church that I knew nothing about. At home, I began to research some of the names that were dropped. I left after about 2 months from a bad experience there. I, like Lindsey, got frustrated because I wasn't experiencing whatever they were. Problem is, she mentioned Calvinism. It’s truly a mine field in today's Christianity.
This is an incredible and important video, but I would say the second part is even better! Please watch the next one!
I knew this school had some crazy practices, but this is honestly way more wild than I ever thought!
Amen! Praise the Lord. I have had a similar moment in similar movement. Depart in peace or preach the Gospel. I preached the Gospel as long as I could. Now I’m working within another church finding our first Love.
This was an encouragement and brought to me when I feel like almost giving up!
So thank you for this
Over the years I have belonged to Assembly of God churches. Bethel used to belong to this movement and the two organizations separated. I had never understood completely the boundary of heresy that some of my AG friends were noting. I checked out Bethel for myself, as I have friends that did leave everything to go to Bethel. I appreciate your story. My one time experience was not bad and the Word of God was primary. Folks can research for themselves.
What an amazing woman of God. If only I could find a wife that understands these truths. 10 years celibate trusting and walking in faith to my God Jesus Christ. I been unable to even find a person that can have dialect on this level. She's emotionally healthy and able to express the deception and the Demonic ways of this movement. I've come out of the deception at Bethel Church and also Morningstar Ministries and it is a lonely road because people are indoctrinated and brainwashed into following a completely false gospel and a different Jesus. but I know the Lord is faithful to bring me my wife as I hope many of you don't lose hope. Blessings
Yes, hang in there ! I believe that if God doesn't have a wife for you at some point, He'll take away your longing for one. No exact scripture on that, just my understanding of God and some clues there maybe (so I could be wrong obviously, but either way God is faithful ! ). We have a lot of good churches here in western WI, ones that preach the inerrancy of scripture and to test everything against it and preach from it, verse by vrs., ch. by ch., book by book. Look up churches in an area online and prayerfully start reading up their statements of faith etc. on the websites of ones that sound like they could be a possibility based on their names and denomination or affiliation or lack thereof. Again, with lotta prayer. Also find places to serve the community for Christ's sake and because it could be a good place to meet other Christians.
Everyone in the comments: Let her speak!!.
Me: I wonder what that room looks like when the lights turn on 🤔
Being one of Jehovah's witnesses for many years and coming out, many churches I attended, I would explain my experience as a Jehovah's witness previously and they would shut me. I quit telling people what I used to be. Today I could care less what they think, my experience too many have been an encouragement to them.
I went to a Foursquare church a few years on my teenage days and they have similar beliefs. It was an experience that opened my eyes. I was raised in a bible teaching church, went back to sound doctrine. Glad God opened her eyes to this deception.
Those guys talk to much....let the woman talk
I thought, or think, they are conversing. This seems like a discussion/interview where she is sharing her experience though dialogue; in other words, they seem comfortable as if talking around a table rather than a formal monologue (typically a show will only show the one guest speaking while sharing their experience), type of interview.
tommy gotz, They’re just trying to push their narrative. That’s a Red flag
Really interesting to listen to. I myself am also a former BSSM 1st year student. I can definitely agree with large parts of things you have observed and experienced but also disagree with some observations and comments or wasn’t what I had experienced when I was there.
There are definitely problems with Bethel and BSSM culturally and theologically but i also definitely don’t consider them to be a cult at all. They are part of the Body of Christ with imperfections but at their root they love Jesus. Agreeably some people have taken things too far, out of context, gone away biblical truth, and gone weird, but at the root of a lot of people at Bethel including Bill and Kris (imperfect as they and we all are) they are followers and lovers of Jesus Christ the One True God.
@Tim Tim - Joel and Tim,: At 18:26 They flash a picture of Kris Vallanton saying he believes God is bigger than his book. I think that is true based on the gospel of John 21:25 that says And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. I think to say the oppositive that everything about God is in the bible would be unbiblical. Where can I find that entire teaching? Do you think that context matters? I thought that was a core tenant of reformed theology and I think at least giving a link to the entire teaching under the video would help give context. I think politics has plenty of taking people out of context and now this is an example of that coming into the body of Christ. Is it wrong that I want to see the context of a comment? Do I need to "just have faith"?
With all due respect, I think what you're not seeing or understanding, is that the Jesus they proclaim is NOT the Jesus of scripture. The gospel they proclaim is a false gospel. It's not enough to proclaim Jesus, the question is what Jesus are you proclaiming? The Jesus of the prosperity movement (which is a counterfeit Jesus), and that is who Bethel proclaims. There's the false Jesus of the Mormons, jehovah witnesses, the new age movement, etc...
Amen
@@stevenmusielski5224 exactly. All these hit pieces have about 20 seconds of a speaker saying something shocking with absolutely no context. Disingenuous at best
Joel Dobbins what’s up with the honey barrel? Was that for real?!
Highly commend & support you Lindsey. Praise be to our God for your faith, courage, Biblical wisdom and sufficiency in your Great Lord & Savior, and His Holy Word!
Your testimony is greatly needing to be heard world-wide. We have people in our own church and community out here who are being enticed by "signs and wonders"
and (as such) being drawn into the NAR movement (of which Bethel is front and center), not realizing the New Age influences ballooning w/in it!
Praise God for His faithfulness and protection upon you through your journey thru all the error and confusion you have had to travel.
Praying for you!
I hope Lindsay is still going strong, thank you for sharing your story and shining light on the deception.
Thank you for this. I have been invited to Bethel many times and either roadblocks came or I had a check to stay away. I am so glad and thankful to God that I never went
The truth always offends those in darkness!!
Excellent! This is reaffirming my feelings (discernment) about things I’ve heard in discussion with others who I’ve felt are heading down the wrong path.
I am a former Jehovah's Witness and I have encountered Bethels' sister church called the River in Fresno,California.
I had friends informing me the cultic teachings of bethel. So, I decided to look into it and it totally is cultic and occultic.
I pray and ask God the help open the eyes of the spiritual blind to the biblical Jesus.
I know there are people who love Jesus dearly and wants to have a deeper relationship with God, but Bethel is poisoning them with a different gospel.
When I was lost in cultic darkness the Christians who witness to me never gave up and continued to pray and share with me about Jesus Christ.
I am moved by Lindsay's Story.
Too much commentary from the interviewers. I came for her story. Let her tell it!
Yup me as well.
They have an axe to grind against Bethel. So their message is already biased.
So, what exactly did Bethel do wrong?
@alphant1 Not with you on that one. Jeff is a top notch preacher and evangelist. Critique if you will, but a disrespectful one- liner isn't offering much to any cause.
@alphant1 Care to back that slander up with some evidence?
Thank you so much for being a great example! In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's. clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves
So sad when we’ll meaning people start out with perhaps the right intentions, and as they move along they lose sight of God by focusing on people’s opinion and their ability to tickle our ears. This is what leads young believers or struggling believers to reject God and become agnostic or atheistic. Thank you for this video Apologia.