Could "E-Bikepacking" Become A Thing?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- As we’ve seen over the last five or so years, e-bikes have gained a solid footing in the bike marketplace and attracted many new riders, but can they become a mode of transport for a bikepacking trip? In our latest video, neil delves into several details in hopes of finding an answer to that question.
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Outline:
Intro - 0:00
Types of e-bikes - 2:18
Batteries - 4:40
E-bike regulations - 8:34
E-bike friendly routes - 9:35
E-bikepacking as a tool - 11:26
The best e-bikes for bikepacking? - 12:49
Related Links:
New Salsa E-Bike Lineup - www.salsacycles.com/bikes/ebike
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::About The Host::
Neil Beltchenko ( / neil_beltchenko )
Geometry: 150lbs, 5'9.5", 32" inseam, +2.5" Ape index - Zábava
Did my first E-Bikepacking trip two years ago on a Trek Allant+7S hardtail a Bosh 250 w motor and 500w battery. I went from Mears Jct. on SR 285 south of Poncha Springs to Hammels on the Taylor via Marshal Pass to Sargents, over Black Bear and Waunita Pass to Pitkin , over Cumberland Pass to Taylor Park, and rainy day over Spring Creek Rd to Hammels on the Taylor. Four days about 125 miles and only about 11 miles of pavement.
P.S. Forgot to mention that I was 77 years old at the time and had 3 Stents in my heart. Without the aid of an e-bike I would not have been able to accomplish this modest task. Just hope the people that are giving e-bikes a bad name don't screw it up for people like me.
I'm 66 and love bike packing but know the day will arrive when riding 8 hrs a day will be too painful. I will keep pushing hard till that day arrives. E gravel bike will be waiting for me when that day arrives.
I’ve been ebike packing for three years now. I bike an 800km rails to trails gravel loop around the southern coast of Nova Scotia leaving from Halifax three to four times each year. I used to hike it as I was prepping for the Appalachian Trail 2019. Then the pandemic hit and my hike was crushed. Since I now had all the ultralight hiking gear I figured I’d try riding the trails instead of hiking them. In my research for a new bike was when I first learned about bikes. I ended up buying a Biktrix Juggxrnaught Beast hardtail with 4.8” tires. The frame internally holds two Dorado style batteries each 720 watt hour. Those give me an average of 180kms range before I stop at a Tim Hortons or McDonalds to recharge. From zero it takes exactly 2 hours 50 minutes to charge both batteries. I spend nights in a war bonnet hammock every night and avoid towns completely except to charge up the bike. I can easily carry enough food and supplies for the 6-7 days it takes to compete the 800km loop.
Sounds like a good system!
You mean the electric moped does it
I really hope e- bike backpacking further develops. I am 61 and the assist truly opens up bike packing to me, and I'm sure others. As us aging backpacker's stay enjoying the wilderness.
My husband and I have been ebike packing across Canada since 2021. We mostly wild camp, he pulls a trailer, and we bring extra batteries. So far we’ve gone over 8,000 km from Vancouver to Montreal. We’ll be back in the spring to finish from Montreal to Newfoundland.
Could you please mention how do you charge your ebike during travels ?
much appreciate
E-bikes are great for folks who need accommodations. I'm all for them! I have asthma and have trouble keeping up with my peers on a bike. My e-bike was life-changing for me! I was so excited about a bike-packing e-bike that I was already thinking about how I could make this work, lol.
e-bikepacking is a great way for people to get out and explore! I rode the Great Divide back in 2017 and my dad was able to join me from Silverthorne to the Mexico boarder. due to my dad's fitness, he would not have been able to complete this trip at my pace without his ebike to help him though some of the more challenging sections of the trail. This made it possible for us to experience the joys of bike travel together and creat some epic memories; this is something that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Charging did make for a minor stressor at times, but it never actually became an issue due to his 2 battery setup.
I’ve been using an ebike to bring my young kids on a WeeHoo trailer bike and a Kids Ride Shotgun jumpseat along on routes that I’d never be able to handle under just my own power. And so long as it’s credit card touring or a route within a single charge’s range, it’s been relatively seamless.
They’re also great for helping bridge a gap between me and fitter friends where I might otherwise have to skip certain rides or risk holding them up, or worse, having them water down the routes for me.
I'm happy to see us having this discussion. While I'm not totally excited to see e-bikes on backcountry singletrack routes like the Oregon Timber Trail or AZT (they aren't permitted in lots of areas), I see huge potential in using e-cargo bikes for semi-supported trips, helping newer riders get into bikepacking, and of course, car replacement. Part of what makes regular bikepacking so fun for me is the opportunity to "unplug", and even bringing a bike computer and inReach is kinda of annoying for me-I don't see myself relying on pedal-assist, but I can imagine they open up doors for loads of people that cannot ride a standard bike for all kinds of different reasons. Well done, Neil.
Well said, Miles. I share the same sentiment.
Pretty much my thoughts Miles! , probably won’t ever own one….. wish the us had adopted the uk 🇬🇧 Europe rules
i agree completely. i think marketing E-bikes as a better version of a bike is misguided. the main use of them should be as a car replacement. If i owned an e-bike, i wouldn't use one for cycling for pleasure trips, but i would definitely use one for many of the errands that are usually too long or too heavy to use with a regular bike. think groceries, gym, and other similar trips.
In my region in France (south west) I saw a lot of retired people doing e-bikepacking in summer for the past 3 years. I find it super cool, they usually ride a few hundreds for a few days and sleep in hotels or Airbnb 😊
You obviously never ridden on before.
I'm not gonna lie -- I've been secretly fantasizing about being on an e-bike while I'm pedaling my overloaded mechanical rig up another 1200 m climb in the Dolomites or Mexico... Yes, there is integrity in that, but then also a bit of self applauding fuss in looking down on e-bikers. I am guilty of that too, but I realize this is not the way to be.
If you are an able bodied rider with a privilege of free time and love for suffering on ascends --- full mech, sure. But for so many people who just don't have the privilege of health or extra vacation days to spend on slow climbs that they are not enjoying --- for sure e-bikepacking is wonderful. I'm sure I'll join the ranks when I get older.
I don't think there is any difference in riding an ebike or having extra low gear. Both ease-up the ride but one is just faster. At least this is with the European ebike models (25km/h). For road riding these 25km/h limited ebikes are actually slower than not having a motor. For carrying a lot of stuff or little humans ebikes are great.
@@K1989L there’s a huge difference. Low gear doesn’t do the work for you. When riding a granny of 19 gear inches on a climb, you are limited by your spinning speed at 2.5-3 miles per hour. Any lower gear and you might as well be walking. An e-bike doesn’t have that limitation - it amplifies and propels you at 10-15 mph while you exert the same or lower effort. I’m not even considering a boost where it’s all motor. In fact, this is the main advantage of e-bikes for me and the main argument for it. Being limited on vacation time, people can use a motor not to waste hours or days crawling up a climb.
I know, right? During my last travel I was thinking how cool would it be to have assist on uphills. But when I'm home I'm thinking hell no, I won't pay 3-5 times more price for a heavier bike which will take an extra excercises from me. At that point I could buy a motorcycle for less money and travel on it, but that would be another kind of a travel? So here I am, buying another regular bike, not e-bike, not only because it's more rational, but also because after that I can say that I've made the whole way by myself, with no assist and be proud of it.
xD
It was pretty nice flying up hills with full assist on a 28mph Cannondale Neo Topstone Carbon Lefty.
I'll tell you the truth I am 62 and have been a bike rider my entire life and for 59 years of my life I have flat out HATED climbing. Every single foot of climbing I have ever did I did while miserable. 3 years ago at age 59 I bought an E bike and I have been climbing with a smile on my face since day one with the E bike. I will NEVER go back to climbing using a conventional bike again and I hope to be E bike camping till the day before they scatter my ashes in The Allegany National Forest!
You see the new Tern? Orox has a 200 mile (company provided ofc) range with the two battery option.
yes, that's gonna be my next bike!
and room for big tyres
They are getting pretty commonplace here in the UK. Different strokes for different folks. More people riding bikes is OK with me! The only problem I have with them is seeing people cheerfully breeze past me on hills when I am giving it all I've got at about 3mph. :)
On my California coast touring trip there was guy touring with an e-mountain bike. He pulled a trailer with a massive solar panel. Then would plug in to public sockets at camp sites.
I live in Pittsburgh and we have the great Allegheny passage and many other rail trails. There are so many people, many of those who are older are doing the trip via e-bike which I love as it keeps people out on the trail who might normally not opt for a longer trail due to some physical limitations. I think the e-bike capabilities will grow and like it or not it will be an alternative way for biking as time goes on. Only those who refuse to accept it merely on the fact that it’s not traditional are the boomers of biking. I am 45 and have considered it as a possibility in the future when I start to struggle to maintain the distances I ride at now. Great video tho!!!
My first bike packing trip was with a creo evo in 2020. Had eco mode at 10% and only used it on the steepest climbs traveling with all my gear. Exploring the trails around camp, I never turned it on. Round trip was 180 miles and the last 20 was in trail mode at 40%, on the road and because i had the juice. I had 30% battery life when I got home. No charging for the trip. After I got home my range extender arrived, and then got a cutthroat. If ebikes will get you out there, then go. It was like a gateway drug to cycling for me. But if you can't pedal it home, it's not a bicycle.
I’m surprised there wasn’t a mention of carrying an extra battery. This would double your range and allow greater distance between charging. Of course there’s the extra weight but the extra range far outweighs the extra weight as a benefit in my opinion. I’ve been eyeing the idea of e-Bikepacking ever since I got an emtb. Definitely intrigued.
yes, someone heard my thoughts on; "Will someone please design an all terrain e-cargo bike" Tern came out with it: The Orox.
Being a bigger rider myself an e-bike could be a gateway into bikepacking (or touring) by offering some much needed assistance on hills. That’s really all I’d want it for, otherwise I’m content traveling under my own power. I get that a lot of people think e-bikes are terrible for the sport, they think they make people lazy or reliant on the motor, whatever. But there’s the other side of that, that e-bikes have been shown to help people ride further and more often. Granted, there are the riders that just rely on throttle, but a lot of bikes and some aftermarket kits are torque based and require the rider to pedal. That means they’re still getting exercise and for me anyway, that’s definitely a good thing.
The downside I see with the aftermarket kits at least, is that the battery usually takes up space on the downtube where you’d normally have your water bottles. That might be fine for commuting but obviously for bikepacking or touring it’s suboptimal.
Surprised you didn’t mention the Tern Orox
Due to having a couple of limiting medical conditions I now have e-road, e-gravel and e-MTB all quite capable of doing bikepacking over multiple days and with each dependant on fitness and route you can achieve over 60 miles on a battery and it’s easy enough with my Fazua bikes to carry a spare battery giving a decent range. You just have to be smart with your charging.
i've been "commute bikepacking" from NJ to NYC for the past several years and have thought about adding an ebike to the bike quiver for this. i see this as a completely inevitable evolution
I'm all about getting rid of barriers that prevent people from biking. Most of the downsides of ebikes are related to infrastructure and behavior, which have much less impact when you are traveling on dirt roads and double track.
The only real downsides are what comes when anything becomes more accessible, and we will just have to live with them. Oftentimes more use can lead to more pressure to preservate the outdoors, so there are upsides to it too.
When we start to see solid state batteries AND we get regenerative braking, then probably yes for non-epic trips. Pinion is pretty close with it's MGU to doing regenerative braking from the hardware perspective. They will need to come up with a clutchable locking rear free-hub. FS bikes may require additional engineering but hardtails should be pretty simple.
I,m riding a e fatbike with a bafang middrive and a 900wh battery. Thinking buying an extra battery for +200km trips with my dog 🐕
nice im rocking the bafang ultra mid drive. going to get a nice granny gear setup going to i can climb up hills like im going down hills haha
Portable, stowable lightweight solar panels allow you to get way out there, and recharge from the sun. They do take longer to recharge, but you have a built in excuse to stay in one place. :)
I’ve moto-camped by motorcycle for years but the idea of ebike camping has captured me. My current fat-tire ebike lacks range but the new Wired Freedom, with its 60 volt battery seems to indicate that the tech is catching up to the need. I’ll be watching developments (and CZcams videos like this one) for the right choice.
I've cycled many long tours full mech, but just converted my touring bike with a Bafang mid drive as I'm simply not able to get fit enough in the time I have available, I'm in the UK, 50 years old, work in my studio every day (self employed) yet love LONG bike rides! So this has meant I can travel far more distance in the short time I can take away from work. I've now got 3 x 15Ah batteries and am taking on the NC500 (500 miles around the very hilly Scottish Highlands) in 6 days later this month for charity ;-)
Where I live Scotland, a few Bosch charging points have been installed with plans for more.
I'm all for it
Quite a few videos on CZcams of 'older' riders ebikepacking across Scotland, guess they just carry a charger.
@@br5380 potentially, you'll easily find somewhere here to get charged I'm sure if needed.
Ebike chargers should be integrated with electric car chargers.
While I bikepack using a standard HT I do have a Specialized Kenevo SL eBike.
The KSL is a 170mm full-sus enduro focused bike using the smaller 35NM motor. With its built-in 360Wh battery and 120Wh extender I've had 40 miles & 7,500ft of elevation on a single charge. Note that this is on super soft/grippy Michelin tyres, rough off-piste trails and it's carrying a lot of bulk due to it's capability/strength.
Equivalent smaller motors are also available in other Spesh bikes, from road-gravel-MTB's.
For those of us living in the centre of congested/ polluted cities (Bangalore for me!):
- front wheel motor ebike conversion kit to get you out of town Friday night
- carry a regular wheel
- leave the battery to charge at the campsite/hotel
- enjoy a two day regular bike packing trip
- swap back to electric wheel to carry your tired legs home.
Swytch in the UK do a nice conversion kit, and there’s a bunch of others that aren’t too expensive!
Yep, this is an awesome idea. Thanks for sharing.
I believe I could if so motivated bikepack on my OG Radpower Cargo bike. with a fresh fully charged battery I had a 120mi range in the lowest power setting which made the 70lb bike ride like a normal MtB. I got this range by turning off the assist for the flat roads & using the regen breaking on any downhills (set the mech brakes quite loose to engage regen with a light touch on the break lever).
Loaded for bike packing, w/ a 110v charger & a extra battery I think I could easily do 50 mile day on non'tech single track & 60 to 70 on gravel roads.
A couple of years ago, due to a medical condition, at the age of 60, I had really no choice but to hang up my conventional bikes, including my 2 hardtail 29ers I was using for my bikepacking adventures, and go to an ebike. I planned on continuing with multi-day bikepacking adventures and fortunately my bags also fitted my mtb 29er ebike. Obviously there are some extra considerations with bikepacking with an ebike with number 1 being - having a power source wherever u stay overnight to recharge. For me, it just now means a bit more planning ahead. The versatility or freedom of wild camping is no longer an option but instead either camp overnight in camp grounds with power or book an Air BNB. The main thing for me is my wife and I can still enjoy our bikepacking adventures.
I love bikepacking on my analog bikes, an RSD Sergeant and my old TriCross…. I also love moto camping on my dual sport…. E bikes are a cool grey area in between. I bought an old Specialized Pitch for $200 bucks and installed a Bafang BBSHD mid drive and I’m enjoying it… kinda like a lightweight dirt bike. It’s not as rewarding as grinding up a long climb under my own power, but it allows me to see 4x as much in the same window of time, so I find myself using it to explore areas I may hesitate to on my MTB or CX bike. I fondly remember the days when I only had to choose between my BMX bike and my MTB…. Lots of options these days. For reference I’m a 44yr old guy that used to race BMX and ride 2 stroke MX bikes.
Have just completed a 4 day, 275km ride on a Specialized Turbo Levy SL. Mix of back roads, rail trails and an afternoon on an IMBA Epic mtb trail. Flashpacking, so charging each night not an problem, but never used more than half of the battery + range extender on any day, so remote overnight options are possible with the right route (and willingness to carry the extra gear). Have fitted 2.6" Maxxis Recons and an Old Man Mountain rack, but miss the space for a frame bag and the bidon options. Have had to go back to a Camelbak, which I think is actually better for hydration in hot weather, but less comfortable. Gearing up to do the Mawson Trail here in Oz later this year.
One subject that comes to mind is the impact the additional weight would have on hike-a-biking and lifting the rig over downed trees or other obstacles.
Yup that is definitely a downside I have found.
That’s where the walk assist function (a common feature on most emtb’s) comes into play.
Over the years we have bought my wife 5 different high end e mt bikes. I'm a fan of these bikes. She rides with them with the power turned way down to ride my pace......... as I ride a non ebike. Works great for us. As far as the range its not miles that make bike packing a challenge (even withe range extenders) its hills that really kills the battery, its do able but serious planning has to be done mostly calculating elevation gain as the main factor. I don't personally think it worth the logisitical night mare on something like the tour divide. What we have found works best is 1-2 nights out bikepacking. As far as the whole e bike controversy topic. Everyone is going to get old at some point...... even you reading this that hate e bikes... one day you will get old or have medical reasons where you can't ride a normal bike. Then what? Do you just give up on riding bikes? I expect one day It will be the only way I can get out. Not for me now im 60 and going strong but one day for sure I'll have a e bike.
And another note when people are really being jerks about it all...Have you ever been somewhen when a hiker goes off on you for riding your regular non e bike? Don't be that guy/girl ok...... Its the same mentally only people doing my sport deserves to be here. Why can't we all just get along and be kind to each other. Ride your ride enjoy the great outdoors and be respectful of others. :) Side note when you see the joyfull tears in my 90 year father eyes and he says "I thought riding bikes was something that was over in my life". The first time he rode his ebike. It will change your perspective :)
Another benefit is employment. I met a guy who was riding his ebike from city to city. Getting food delivery jobs ubereats, etc. to paying for his holiday.
GCN have done some videos on it too, they took Tern Orox cargo bikes on a trip recently. I think it's a great way to get more people out on bikes, especially families, given the higher cargo capacity. Just means more careful planning of stops to ensure you can charge up.
I have an ebike since 2021, I also have MS since 1996, so in the last years became hard to follow my friends. An ebike was a game changer for me. Now I can ride 100 km with no problems. I didn't do any ebike packing so far, just because charging, however it is in my plan for this year.
I use my Trek Rail 7 eMTB for bikepacking. Around 12 kilo of luggage on a 25 kilo bike. Can get approx 60km range with 1000m of elevation on mixed gravel/rail trail terrain from a 600kwh battery. Camp in dedicated campgrounds with powered sites.
If you have an older e-bike with external battery, like the Bosch PowerPack 500Wh, it's easier to switch batteries. So you can put panniers and carry 2 extra batteries that will give you a lot of extra range. You'll have to charge eventually but you get more flexibility. But I have to admit, here in Europe, it's way cheaper to get an used older Cube Reaction Hybrid with external batteries, buy 2-3 used extra batteries for 100 euro each and do your thing, at least that's what I've chosen, it made sense for me.
People tour on motorcycles so there is no reason people won't tour on e-bikes. They'll have to deal with the logistics around charging, but one guy I ran into hauls a generator and gas with him so he can charge his e-bike overnight in camp.
wow, that's dedication.
haha i did the math on that type of setup for a long trip but its better to just bring like 5 extra batteries and ditch the weight of the generator.
Seems easier to just ride a 49cc bike at that point?
@@justinbogart278 only if you want the motor noise and carb and spark plug problems. pick your poison haha.
Met a few when I was bikepacking in New Zealand. Looked like a great setup. They did carry spare batteries
I have a light motor assist e-gravel bike, a spare battery, a solar panel and solar charger. I have the freedom at hand, only have to start giving it a try :)
Do you pull a trailer?
I think E-bikes present an enticing replacement for cars. In fact, at some point I plan to stick a conversion kit on an Omnium, once I end up in a more... commuter friendly city. Having said that, my fear is that E-bikes will open up the world of backpacking to a lot of people.
Now that last statement sounds suspect, but hear me out. The reality is mountain biking and by extension backpacking is a dangerous sport. The term earn your turns comes to mind, not from a place of self centered gatekeeping, but from a place of... proven experience/endurance. Getting up terrain is a whole different ball of wax than riding down it, and I have personally witnessed people make it up things that they were 100% not prepared to ride down. In addition, bikepacking tends to place people far outside the range of civilization, so if something goes wrong the difference between self assistance and a call to SARS ultimately comes down to your experience, your level of preparedness, and the severity of the situation you end up in.
The more accessible this sport is made, the more likely inexperienced, unprepared individuals are likely to get themselves hurt/ killed. If there is a genuine increase to the amount of... E-packers? Then there needs to be a concerted effort to educate them on the do's and dont's of safely traveling in the back country with that type of equipment. I am one to avoid the cynical views of the bike industry for the most part, but I don't feel like the big players would be spearheading this initiative unless a string of bad incidents forced their hand.
I still think eBike Packing has too many hurdles to become a thing anytime soon. You'll of course have some outliers who will say they've already been doing it for years, but until it's achievable by a regular joe that only has a long holiday weekend to play with, it's too niche to be a thing companies throw serious money at.
On the other hand, eBike Touring is here and ready. It's a different kind of fun, but still has similar elements. You get to sleep outside whenever you want, but maybe it's at a campsite instead of under a random cactus. You get to cook for yourself, or hop into a cool looking brewery you're passing by. You can put down huge miles, or hop from place to place. There is a guy I've been watching that will do 150 miles, and just charge while having lunch.
I actually think eBike Touring is a perfect gateway drug to the next level that is Bikepacking.
That's how I got into packing. Started with escooter touring, then ebike.
Thanks for discussing e-bikes and not being snobbish or elitist about only tolerating human-powered bicycling.
These days I have rationalized my bike stable down to just two bikes. One is an e-bike. It is a Specialized Turbo Levo 6 Fattie. I only use it on gnarly single track for mountain biking, often in dedicated mountain bike parks. At 72, I decided to get an e-bike to be able to ride faster uphill. So that I could keep up with my son and not get so exhausted climbing that I would make subsequent mistakes when descending. It is a great bike. I love it. It has changed my life. I now ride more often and for longer sessions. I generally prefer to ride in eco mode. Higher levels of pedal assist don't interest me. I'm not a wanna-be Moto petrol-head. So, I get up to 140km on a single battery charge. I have upgraded my Levo with a Rohloff rear hub. It means far less maintenance is required for the gear mech, eliminating broken derailleurs and no bent derailleur hangers.
My 2nd bike is my bikepacking-specific fat-tyre Tumbleweed Prospector. It too has a Rohloff rear hub for the same reasons as my Levo. It has a Son Dynamo front hub. However, it is intentionally not e-powered. Even though I tend to travel loaded up with a lot of gear for camping, I cannot imagine e-bikepacking. It would restrict where I want to travel and spoil the spontaneity of being able to stop to camp wherever I find an attractive campsite. Often, even with the best route planning beforehand, I just find I get too tired to force myself to push on to a planned overnight stop. Again, at 72, I just couldn't be bothered toughing it out to stick to the plan. My body has good days when I feel all-powerful, and bad days when I feel weak as a kitten. I prefer to listen to my body and stop when I need to. Trying to make it to somewhere where I can recharge a battery just doesn't work for me. So, no, I currently do not think e-bikes work for bikepacking.
thanks for the video! I recently bought my first ebike, but I have been bike packing for years on my trusty v1 fargo. my new specialized turbo tero 5.0 is a fantastic do anything style machine- hardtail with 110mm fork. the specialized has a 710 watt/hour battery which is good for 25-85 miles, depending on conditions and power level. I have yet to try a bike packing trip with it, but I believe the bike would be a good option for shorter projects. I routinely haul all sorts of stuff with the bike; super fun to rally up the big hills with 30 lbs of gear (beer mostly) !
You also missed the specialized Tero what I believe is made for bike packing
I've done a few ebikepacking trips and really enjoy it. Super fun in a different way.
Ultimately, these trip are all based on where you can recharge and how far you can go on a full charge. And speaking of charge, the best bikes to look for are models that can let you add a second battery.
Can't wait to use my dual battery Surly Skid Loader this summer.
More bikes will, hopefully, lead to better biking infrastructure.. Bring it!!!
eBikes are great for dipping your feet into bikepacking. Probably directed more to holiday park destinations after getting a train to the closest rail trail. I recently did an overnighter with the wife and 2 kids we were both hauling at least 100kg each along a 45km rail trail. Omnium cargo and Karate Monkey with Burley d’lite both accoustic bikes. There were ample charging locations at the end destination and plenty of down hill where pedalling/power would not be needed. Very easy to do the whole trip on a single charge. eBikes would make this type of journey so accessible to a broader range of people who would then bring business to these smaller towns. It has has to be said that eBikes just take the edge off, you still get so much joy from pedalling and achieving.
Love both options: light and nimble gravel bikepacking on my Surly LHT and fully loaded front country camping/touring with my family on a Tern HSD and Benno Boost. In order to get to 100+miles/160+km you need 2 batteries - We're still on single battery bikes but in the future we will get bikes with double batteries (probably a front load cargo with regen braking next), so for now we plan shorter day rides and charge up during lunch or at a camp site's ranger station if they have one.
Can u pls recommend a full suspension belt ebike 4 bike trekking/packaking? Thx.
Riese and Muller. You can choose pretty much what you want on them, belt drive, extra battery, full suspension... really high qjality builds but it comes at a price. Also Im talking about EU, no idea if they are elsewhere.
Getting below 12km/h ( 7.5 mph) i find my sweat doesn`t dry and cool me down riding up hill. E-biking in warm weather has changed my life in how I enjoy getting out far. I have a cyclecross bike which i rig up for touring (rear paniers). I am at the crossroads for deciding what to do for a better touring bike , as the Cyclecross gear ratio is quite limited when paniers are loaded , and so steep fire trails have to be walked. With fat tyres there is no need for rear suspension ( maybe a redhshift spring seat post will help and lower pressure in the fat tyres). Descending fast is not necessary so I am thinking of rigging an old fashion generator to flick onto the back rim while descending , which can charge up phone and headtorch. Maybe rig a little solar panel on the back panier rack at the rear. I`m not deluding myself to thinking any solar panel will ever charge the bike battery enough to justify bringing one along , sitting around all day, but photography nuts might have a different perspective to me on that.
I`m very excited to see how things develop. 700mm diameter wheels ( 27.5') would be best, front shocks, minimal range, with a flexing head set I reckon too.
I appreciate that these are starting to be made. In the last decade I’ve been an avid e-bike advocate. I sold my car and bought one and it genuinely changed my perception of how much machine I needed to get around for everyday things. My first e-bikes weren’t super powered, but were certainly handy with .5kwh battery. I learned I could do impromptu picnics in the park with friends, and mini adventures I wouldn’t have thought of before. I created different habits from that sense that I was empowered to go anywhere. I started regularly riding to the top of a mountain for sunrise.
There are some limits to ebikes at the moment, I wouldn’t necessarily do the cross country ride I did on one, but I see e-bikes as a super useful tool that we should all be considering before buying another car.
In terms of durability though, I think the real future is in E-bikes that don’t have a chain/derailleur and instead have a belt / gearbox/motor like the Pinion MGU or Bosch/Rohloff combos.
Some other cool bikes that are worth noting:
The Tern Orox: which has a base battery of 800watts and can couple that for a potential range over 100miles.
I haven’t seen it, but I’ve heard word that Specialized is working on a long distance bikepacking machine with solar panels.
We are only at the beginning of an emerging trend.
I don't think it's feasible for true off grid adventures. I can see them being used in the situations you mentioned...like if you're credit card/hotel touring or camping at actual campsites that have electrical hook ups.
it's easy you just buy a single track trailer and like 4 extra batteries and charge up every few days when you hit a town for a few hours.
@Timbodacious just seems you'd burn through the battery levels lugging all the extra batteries.
i'm doing the pan american trail next year or the year after on an ebike with a side quest into the great divide trail. its doable you just need a single track trailer and about 5 extra batteries to bring with you. Not doing it because im lazy but i've got health problems so I run out of energy fast but still want to bike the route.
You are on the right track to look at this as a feasible if something more like the European model was followed. Of course the Western US is not Europe, but there are many, many "Jeep" roads out here that would be open to e-assist bike packing. A new category for the U.S.. And like road and city biking has discovered, the e-assist crowd is largely an older demographics that love the outdoors, but can no longer ride hunched over in a super efficient riding position on a lightweight bike with no suspension. Many of us did that for decades, but arthritis and age catches up eventually for most of us. At 67, I had to resort to e-assist a few years ago, and it keeps me riding about 100 miles per week.
Even without intermediate huts or hotels , "re-charge" resupply stations would not be that difficult. A $2,000 Ecoflow Delta Pro (or similar power station) with a few residential solar panels could have the capacity to charge a half dozen bikes per day. Cost would be less than $7-10k per station. Charging would take 2-4 hours per battery. A power station like the Delta Pro has enough output to charge several bikes at once.
I really hope our recreational land managers modernize their thinking about how our forest and mountain resources are managed and developed to facilitate this potential new category of bikepacking.
I used to be a bike tourer. I did San Francisco to Chicago and many tours in Europe. As work and family life evolved I had no time left and became only a commuter. Three years ago I got an e-bike to be able to continue to live carfree. With that I could use the small time windows in daily life to get out there again. I started to do overnighters again and changed the road for trails and forest roads. But just as Neil I prefer to sleep under the stars and so with the e-bike extended trips are not possible. As family and work will offer me growing windows of free time I will buy a conventional bikepacking bike soon. So the e-bike kept me carfree and through it I regained the interest and time in bike travel.
And one thing for Europe: if you are willing to do so, you can sleep on developed campgrounds every night and recharge the battery.
buy 5 extra batteries and a single track trailer for your bike. ride as far as you like and charge at a restaurant or grocery store or gas station.
@@Timbodacious Haha . With that price, weight and trailer drag I think I’m better off just buying a used non electric hardtail or touring bike…
Been ebikepacking for four years after a quadruple bypass it's opened the world up for me❤️
P.T trying
I used an Orbea Wild FS with a 625w battery and the Aeroe bikepack set up, 32lbs of gear, 252lb rider through cypress hills Saskatchewan/alberta . The wide tires and full sis had me bombing down hills and climbs where an absolute joy. I hit 72 km/hr with a fully loaded bike on the reesor lake hill, WAY to fast but I was blown away at the amount of control I still had. I think it’s absolutely Ana amazing way to do it, but you def need to know your range, range anxiety between charge points is HUGE, so much more planning. As well, consumables, chains and cassettes are the two things I’ve eaten up the most. A lot more can go wrong, but when everything goes right, it is an absolute BLaST.
As an aging individual, I would be interested in seeing a versatile pedal assist option to help extend the time I'll be able to enjoy the freedom of getting around. It always seems like a quandary... assist options can easily become crutches and actually hasten the decline in capability yet they also can be a benefit when some assistance is needed.... 🤷♂️
I have a Surly Bridge Club with a CYC Photon mid-drive conversion and it's a wonderful e-bikepacking/touring rig. I'm not sure if the off-the-shelf ebikes support this, but the aftermarket motors from Bafang, CYC, etc will let you create custom power levels to your choosing. Case in point, I regularly stay in "level 1" set to 150W max assist, which gives me enough assist to flatten out the hills, while yielding far more range than a stock configuration.
It may not be a thing but it is my thing. It took me from a commuter in London to happily riding London to Napoli and doing lots of hilly bits. Recharge like re supply is half the fun of planning. In remote areas I charge alternate days or daily depending on towns with a café and do it then. I ride either a trek EMTB FS with 625wh or a reisse muller super delite with 1125 wh and a rolhoff/belt setup. With this I can easily do 300km on the flat with decent exertion or 100km in very steep adverse terrain. I don’t fly anymore so will head home to Australia by e-bike packing. As I said it’s my thing and to be inclusive should be a part of yours. Oh and only ever 250w 25km max. What’s the point of anything else that’s just an electric motorbike.
62 year old E Bike packer from New York here. Man you are making things WAY TOO COMPLICATED. I bought my E Bike 3 years ago. I can go just about 45 miles on a charge biking in the Allegany National Forest. NOBODY and I repeat NOBODY checks your e bike to see what class it is or tells you where or where you can not go on them in New York as long as you ride your bike respectfully. I love taking my e bike camping because I can carry more gear and I hate climbing and climbing using an E bike is a dream come true. I recommend fat tires and a good set of panniers. My panniers are made by Rockbro's and cost me a mere 80 bucks. Try it you will LOVE e bike camping!
Bike packing with an eBike sounds great but on some level, it frightens me. I have a Specialized Turbo Vado SL. It's not bike packing specific but neither are any of my bikes. In terms of distance, even in eco mode, with no bike packing gear and on relatively flat RailTrails, I get 50 or so miles. According to Specialized's range calculator I should be getting 78 miles. The thing is that you REALLY do not want to try to pedal the thing on any kind of incline for any appreciable distance. It weighs about 52 pounds. I use it mostly for commuting and errands and when I'm feeling lazy, but for me the, the fact is that its value is really just that you can go faster with it than with a conventional bike, particularly up hills. On the Turbo Vado I do climbs at about 8 - 10 mph whereas on the conventional bike, it can be as slow as 3- 5 mph. The pedaling effort is about the same, but being in a much lower gear on the conventional ride, I go much slower.
Unless there are reliable charging options, at this point I'd leave the eBike at home and go with a conventional bike. The extra speed just isn't worth the risk of a dead battery. And besides, what's the point of going faster when bike packing is supposed to be about getting outside and enjoying nature.
I have a mid-drive eMTB cargo bike (Yuba Spicy Curry AT) for my daily commute and kid hauler. As a bikepacker, I have been thinking about the day my 8-year-old wants to bikepack. Having the eMTB cargo bike to haul her gear (and likely her, when tired) would be appealing. I have two Bosch batteries and could pedal 55-80 miles, based on power setting.
I'm glad this triggered y'all to start covering the ebike options. I haven't (yet) joined the 'dark side' but have to admit I'm considering it more of a when then an if question. Then comes the questions that tie to bikebacking usage (longer distances without power) vs normal gravel day trips or MTB rides. And how much crossover is there.
I'd really like to see evaluations that include time spent with dead batteries. It is so rarely mentioned in other reviews. But for a bikepacking crowd, I'd say that it is inevitable that one would have to do it sometimes. One that has no drag and just 20lb of weight isn't really a big deal. But one that drags.. ugh.
My husband and I just bought a couple of Bike Friday All-Packas with front hub motors. I have arthritis in my knees, and can no longer ride up hills, especially with a load. These little helper motors are a game changer for me. We only plan on day trips right now, but I have wondered if the batteries could be charged with small, flexible solar panels.
I won an ebike in a raffle and ride it on roads in Juneau, AK. I can dial down the assist and turn the motor off to freewheel on downhills, to make the battery last on longer rides. Yet, if I misjudge or take an extra side trip, then I’m peddling a super heavy bike back up hill to get home. The weight is also a factor to consider if trying to load the bike into a vehicle.
On the (section 8)EDT with my E-bike right now!
700 miles in and still going!
I’ve got myself an e gravelbike just to get more educated and for the mountains I originally come from (thanks for showing the Dolomites) - and if we are testing a binepacking route here in the Black Forest this summer probably with some e gravelbikes .. let’s see if it works well 😉
Of course it could. As I was cycling up a 10% gradient with my bags I was dreaming I was on an ebike all the way to the top.
It seems people do not listen when it is explained that Class 1 and Class 3 (in the US) MUST BE PEDALED to advance. It takes work. Most of my e-biking friends (EMTB or e-Gravel) Use minimal or no power assist until it gets really hard. Same on the road and bike lanes. Riding gravel and fire roads like this I can get an easy 80+ miles with my Canondale Topstone Neo. I believe that people should respect the choices of others in the equipment they buy - particularly people who are trying to appreciate the beauty of nature.
I don't understand why people care so much. If someone wants to go bikepacking on a class 2 and throttle the entire way, that's fine by me as long as theyre having fun.
A thing??
It's what got me into bikepacking, & thousands of dollars more into yet another hobby. 😆
Edit: THE BEST ebike to bikepack with is a UBCO 2X2, Raev GTX, & SurRon/Talaria style bikes, the traditional style bikes aren't nearly as comfortable as having a motorcycle seat to stretch out on, & with that, extra room too, no motor, so most have huge frame cavities to carry gear in, I've set mine up no different than a touring motorcycle rear rack, saddle bags, front fork bag, etc, as well as a Jupiter Cargo trailer with suspension
I would give the Creo 2 more of a look. It has gravel geometry and can be ridden without the motor on. But it's there when you really want it.
Been doing this for several years with a custom build and off road kids trailer. The key for me is the Grin Satiator solid-state charger that charge a 52v battery at 8amps, which allows for fast mid-day charging.
I tried ebike packing with a Cannondale Neo topstone carbon lefty. It was just too heavy, could not accommodate wider tires, and only had 30mm of squish up front. I ended up returning it.
I'm thinking the Tern Orox is setting a new standard. Waiting for widespread release, but with wheel/tire changes its running the gambit.
It will be able to be done E biking. But it will need some sort of solar setup to reload stuff on the bike and gear. So a foldable easy to take hiking solar panels...not too heavy etc. So a Hike Set, or Hike Upgrade, or any of such accessory kits, would be needed? I guess :) Solar cells sown into all the packing gear facing light during the day. Etc. So it would need to grow as smart if not smarter, than the E-bike, since it is an obvious problem. The reloading is...irritating the need for staying in close range of facility to use. For hiking I will stick with my new aluminium MTBs. And I will stick with those I guess. They are light enough and strong enough, and I don't know see why to replace a bike that functions when I do or want to :D So it will need so much more, and that is the commercial dance I guess.
Who will serve those who want it. Well for those fitting the shoes. But it needs panel, with converters and hubs and what not, and all comes with the trip. So where is the weight, well in the rest to make it function? To reload things? Caravans, and trailers and busses, and travel vans probably are outfitted with abilities to have solar panels with stuff to reload these. I seen those with channels here. So could be. But without proper support, I doubt it will be a race that is raced in one go, with sleeps in between, but with E-bikes it's a different thing. Unless you get support on batteries as well. Etc... :D I just started thinking of dropping the idea. And left it with that. Certainly E-bikes will find a place between all other cycles. I think a tent with solar cells in the fabric, would be handy, such gear.
But problem is you often set it up at an end of a day, so it all take planning, is actually what it means, and yeah a little different. Than usual, impossible, I don't know, f people like to sta on a spot and leave their thousands of Dollar value equipment in the sun somewhere. And say ok we are out in nature, so what the heck and stay on a spot for a day, and continue. Would that cover all the things needed to load and reload. .. ? Is that worth it? Is that worth it, marketing for it?
I volunteer for bike patrol in a local private forest preserve that is popular amount cyclists. I use both a traditional bike and an e-bike. The e-bike allows me to travel farther and patrol longer. However, given a certain level of fitness, the constraints of an e-bike will hold you back.
E-bike range is effected not only by distance but also by vertical ascent. So, careful route planning is necessary to avoid running short of power. Therefore, you will never achieve a practical range equal to what is theoretically possible. E-bikes do lower the fitness barrier. If your partner or parent can’t climb as well as you, an e-bike is a great option.
IMO, e-bikes are better at replacing motorized vehicles for recreation and local runabout. While there will be e-bikes pushing into traditional bike spaces, heavier and more powerful e-bikes may be inappropriate for that.
Already doing it for sub24 or weekend outings. What most people seem to forget, you don't need to use the power all the time. Only turn it on for the big climbs. Lasts a long time that way. Disappointed that the Tributary is going to be a Class 3, keeps it off too many of the trails I was hoping to ride with it. They literally made my dream eGravel/Adv bike, then made if off limits.
I need to know what that trailer is at 4:29 - looks like a mashup oflike the Coho or ey Travoy and a mono-wheel trailer. Looks like the perfect platform for me.
Frances: bikepacking.com/gear/frances-cycles-farfarer-review/
I live in Italy and did a lot of long distance trip with my e-mtb (scott with two batteries). My dream is to ride accross Africa with an e-mtb. The recharging of tha batteries is the problem... and up to now, for what I know, the solar panel option is not good enough.
Another major problem is that e-bikes are not allowed on planes and this means that you can only organize your e-bike bikepacking trips around home or where you can drive to (or take a train to taking a train with an e-bike fully loaded is not that simple)
Looking forward to e bikepacking when I‘m in my 70ies 👌
I have done some e-bikepacking in China and it worked great in the area where I was traveling. It is important to understand the charging infrastructure along your route. Though I prefer acoustic bikepacking, e-bikepacking allows increases accessibility for people who are unable to grind out the miles on an acoustic bike.
I like to have both options.
When I want to have pedal-assist I attach the battery and use the rear-tire with hub-motor.
If I want to ride without any assistance I remove the battery and replace the rear tire with a tire with a normal hub.
The cables stay in place and it’s a matter of minutes to convert my bike. I use a Pinion gear box.
The biggest advantage of my Neodrive hub motor is that it is completely quiet. I don’t like the sound of mid-drives while cycling through nature. For me that takes all the fun away.
Given the fact you have powerful batteries, I would take two. I have gone 30+ miles hotel to hotel. I use a Turbo Levo. Even with packed Ortlieb panniers on Old Man Mountain, I never have power issues. I keep power use as low as possible and I am always in good shape. But if I had to, get a second main battery. Yes, pricey! But would be easy to carry, and you will have massive power and range!
Doing eBike packing and touring for over 12 years now. Only Ebikes with the Bosch though.
And even though I still have 7 eBikes with the Bosch (three of them with the Rohloff E14) I am already eyeballing the Tern Orox 😂
It would be hard to recharge out in the middle of nowhere but I think they would be great for touring
For my ebike setup (Mahle X20 with iX350 battery)
- Use power mode one to come up to speed and then to zero
- Use power modes as needed to manage effort / speed
- If riding with non e-assistance riders I use 8% of my battery per 40 miles with 1,200 feet of climbing
Think the best use case and target audience for dropbar ebikes is young(ish) parents. Towing a trailer with an acoustic bike on anything but pancake flat terrain is not a real option.
I opted for the Rose Backroad plus with a shimano ep8 motor, so far so good. Range is about 50km with a trailer, double that if you aren’t towing kids. The big upside is the torque with this particular motor, the downside is the relatively low capacity built in battery, and to my knowledge no option to add a range extender.
Planning some 2-3 day camping trip this summer, ebike charging is so widespread at grocery stores, beaches, etc that range anxiety should be a non issue.
I bike packed with my Emtb. You just have to know your range and plan charging options.
Ebikepacking is great, just wish I could do it abroad, but you can't fly with batteries and getting one abroad basically means buying a new battery and ditching it at the end, or posting it which is stupidly expensive as well. Can't bring it on eurostar either :(. Would love to do some of the eurovellos especially along danube.
Can easily get 80miles out of my bosch 750wh, on eco.
Wow will have to look at dolomites and see how it would working getting a battery somehow.
Since when did Eurostar stop taking e-bikes?
I did in September last year
@user-rl7qq1wq5o they stopped it during covid, when I looked early last year that policy was still in place. They've opened it back up, so that's great news.
Oh and I also play the switch to the off position when coasting down hills…think conserve conserve conserve 😂 fun in a different way compared to an acoustic bike. 👍
What about cargo bikes , or trikes of the recumbent kind ?
I’ve had thoughts about doing an interstater on my trike , I’m still tossing it around , I’m in Australia , so interstaters like in the US can be a very big trip , my thoughts are Melbourne to Queensland , or Melbourne Perth .
I’ve got some question marks on my health , so I’m not sure , but in back of my little brain I’m hoping an extended bike trip/ trike trip while a big challenge might do me some good ( I’m old )😊, that’s of course if I don’t get run over by a lunatic car driver or a road train😊.
I would like to see a very light low power e-bike for those who may need help on long hills. Other times one puts out 80 watts of his own and very little, if any aid needed. Not only that, charging on downhills for regenerative purposes and even on the flats when feeling your oats, could stretch the range radically.
I pre-ordered the Tern Orox R14 with three spare 800wh batteries to go with it. Plus 200 litters worth of panniers and 29" 2.6 wide tyres. All-in-all, it should have good range, carrying capacity, and terrain handling.
I’m disabled. And I love bicycles and cycling. Despite my health challenges I can still ride bikes. Not as far as I used to. Even so, cycling is still a wonderful source of joy in my life. Bikepacking, however, is something I’m incapable of doing. For now. An ebike could change that, change what’s possible for me and what’s possible for folks like me. I say embrace it (maybe limit it to 20mph bc of head injuries, etc.). I’m holding out on buying an ebike for now, but hopeful about where things are headed. And they get upwards of 1,000 mpge, so better than a Tesla. I’m here for it, is what I’m sayin.