PARIAH (S4E12) Tom’s Request During Alicia’s Final Scene, Clark's BIG Secret & Our First 3 Bomber
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Join us this week a Tom Welling and Michael Rosenbaum react to surprise after surprise after surprise in our rewatch of Smallville Season 4 Episode 12: PARIAH!
What could’ve gone on for the entirety of the episode, but was cut short, was Michael‘s fascination with the unconventionally absurd cold open and why it was wrong for so many different reasons.
The guys go on to talk about Tom‘s cathartic performance after losing a loved one, how the sandman villain could have been renamed and improved, and the huge shock of Chloe Sullivan learning Clark’s secret.
Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
2:11 - Pariah
3:04 - Michael's kryptonite
5:30 - Silhouette shower 2.0
7:20 - Guess who's back
9:50 - Shut up Jason
12:09 - Chloe learns Clark's secret!?!
13:20 - Enter Sandman
15:15 - Tom's request during Alicia's emotional death
16:32 - AG1
19:08 - Policygenius
20:55 - Clark makes glass
22:20 - Tom's Steve McQueen inspo
25:27 - NEW SPECIAL SEGMENT!
27:00 - Michael P takes us to school
29:10 - Clark's first love lost
31:00 - Sarah Carter rumors
34:17 - Good Chop
36:15 - Knocking the episode down a peg
37:52 - Love at first Smallville
41:02 - Hotline
45:27 - Betterhelp
46:59 - NHTSA
48:30 - Because he's a perv
52:30 - Show ratings
54:03 - Ryan’s favorite scene
55:03 - Outro
56:38 - Could not do it without YOU
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PARIAH (S4E12) Tom’s Request During Alicia’s Final Scene, Clark's BIG Secret & Our First 3 Bomber #smallville #talkville #season4 - Zábava
🌹🌹🌹Tom to Michael: "I am so looking forward to forcing you to watch these episodes that you're not in" lmao 🤣
I doubt Michael will be able to take the seasons he isn’t in
lol there's been much fan-debate over this question. . but I think he's gonna stick it out!
Looking forward to him enjoying S8-10 with us. So many amazing heroes and then there's the exciting Lois and Clark storyline.
Despite not being in future seasons, Rosy still has a lot to offer listeners as someone intimately involved in the show. Even if it’s just him shitting on it. I still want to know what Rosy thinks about those episodes. Especially given the later seasons are some of the best seasons for the whole series. If he doesn’t stick it out, it won’t look good.
@melissacarling22 I actually think that he'll like the later seasons more. I mean w the exception of a couple random issues (ehem, doomsday conclusion) the storylines were excellent. plus it brought basically the justice league together, not to mention the VFX kept getting better year after year. obviously, when they switched from film to digital it lost that cinematic feel (but to be fair, everyone had that challenge cuz digital cameras had a more limited back then for the budget) but the whole show took a turn in S8 became fresh and exciting again and they broke from that tedious soap-drama of Clark/Lana back and forth.
the fact that they were able to weave in Clark's relationship w Lois as part of AND a catalyst to reach his destiny was brilliant! so yeah the later years have alot to offer
I stand by the statement that the car scene is one of the greatest moments in series history. We finally have the moment that Chloe, the nosey admirer, can finally show us she is a true friend and not just someone who is poking around people's lives. This was the moment I started liking Chloe's character authentically.
Chloe was created to be a proto-Lois, but the writers treated her badly early on, wasting time with a Clark/Lana/Chloe triangle when the entire audience knew he wasn't going to end up with either of them.
Chloe wasn’t the only character who was mistreated by the writers. Look at Pete; he was underutilize and made into A simp for Chloe.
@@DarthDread-oh2neThey could’ve done that worse with Pete’s interest in Chloe. It didn’t drag the show IMO nor annoy me too much. Still miss him being there.
💯 💯
Yes, same here bc she finally stopped being insufferable. 😅
Tom did an amazing job in the scene where Clark finds Alicia in the barn. He made you feel the pain and rage he was feeling in that moment. 🌹🌹🌹to Tom for that scene.
Except his crying sad acting is not great… you can always tell when actors are uncomfortable with a particular emotion because they keep their voice almost muted, as though they know they’re e struggling and are trying to hide it.
I'm actually surprised Ryan didn't put that as one of his best scene candidates - even if he didn't really feel blown away by it, just as a nod to Tom doing something outside Clark's usual range. It seemed like that one and the car catching scene were the obvious 1 & 2.
I wish his scream made the barn or the ground shake a little as he was crying for her... Would've shown how powerful his emotion or sorrow is imo opinion.
Him screaming "Noooo!" the second time still gives me chills
And Lois truly looks scared. It's one of my favorite scenes in the series.
LOL Tom doesn't remember the reveal scene but remembers a FUN scene with Erica and Allison at the hospital. Love it.
It finally gave Chloe a sense of purpose to be Clark’s sidekick/friend throughout the rest of the series. The advise Lois gave to Chloe about keep a secret defines both their character growth when they figure out Clark’s powers.
Lois's line, "First you marry the girl, *Then* you date her??" into the microphone was one of my favorite Lois moments in the whole series! 🤣
And then Chloe had the best response: "...That was, subtle, Lois..."
So good.
Can we have Michael P as a permanent fixture on the show please!? The man adds so much value to the discussion and facilitates Rosy and Tom so well. He really understands and has balanced views of each episode. More of Michael P please!!! What a legend. 🌹🌹🌹
I agree! He really knows the show and he expresses himself very good 👑
Yes! His insight and knowledge of the show and every episode is phenomenal. He legitimately enjoys it and understands the show as an original fan from back in the day, and now, like the rest of us, from a present day perspective. He just expresses what we are all thinking so well. And for that I appreciate him.
And when I say more of Michael P, I mean he should be on the podcast from start to end of each episode. Not just as a guest for a short moment.
He always provides interesting questions, and he seems to have a keen eye of observation to provide some thought provoking questions as well. Like they said, he's very articulate. I always look forward to his questions.
I was about to comment this too! Michael P is great.
One thing I disagree with Michael about is that I think Lois making shitty comments not realizing she's saying it into the mic is precisely her character. She's not really supposed to be a pure hero. She's kind of a wrench in the works at this point. We're supposed to think of her as brash and impulsive and living with her foot in her mouth. She acts before she thinks. But we also know she means well and is constantly living between the letters of "whoops".
Exactly this! I thought it was very on-character that she did that. The "through the mic" thing is not exactly on purpose anyway, it was accidental cause she was still holding the mic in her hand. She always says whatever's on her mind and even Tom acknowledged that a few episodes ago. She was doing exactly what she would've done in that situation, there was nothing wrong about it, that's just her character! I think Michael already had such a bad impression with the whole scene predicament that he decided everyone in it did everything wrong lol
Michael P!! How articulated he was, great to be part of this fandom❤
One small important thing that happens in this episode is Lois giving Chloe advice on what to do with Clark's secret. Cause in the future this will pose a big problem for Clark and his love interests and we can already see how Lois is different and the best fit for him, cause this was the best advice.
And the moment that always stood out to me for some reason in this episode was how Erica played Lois when she stopped Clark from killing the guy, the way she says "stop!" in such a breathy, desperate way always stuck with me.
Lois' advice to Chloe is also what she does when she learns Clark's secret. After she is done panicking by way of Egypt, she is supportive and waits for Clark to tell her
@@ryebread095 I actually never watched the second half of the show so I didn't know this is how Lois found out...funny how they did the same storyline for Chloe and Lois in that respect. Pete, Clark told sort of under duress (Pete was already tangled up in the story), Chloe found out without him knowing. Would've been a nice contrast if he decided to tell Lois under his own volition.
Absolutely 💯
@@ryebread095 Yep! That's what I meant.
@@jerodasthe did eventually, and Lois waited for him to tell her before she revealed that she already knew.
Alicia: I promise I'll never reveal your secret as long as I live.
Literal next episode: Chloe, get ready to meet the real Clark Kent. 😂
There were a ton of death flags flying around this episode and the last, that being one of them, so it's really not all that surprising that it's thanks to her Chloe knows Clark's secret.
Exactly lmaoo Alicia was not to be trusted 😂
Eh, she could've just told the Sheriff, which is literally what she was begging Clark to do. She could've told the whole town. Instead she told Clark's best friend. I agree it was a betrayal of her promise but there was a degree of care taken about how she did it. (I'm aware she also called it the story of a lifetime, but still...she chose Chloe to write it. I guess we'll never know if she was really dedicated to that plan, or if it was more out of desperation for SOMEONE to stop thinking she's the only superfreak in town.)
Also, I appreciate the desperation she was feeling. The whole town thinks she's committing a series of attempted murders that they're still in the middle of! She doesn't know the Sherriff has essentially declared her innocent. I get it.
It is funny how there's so much violence in Smallville we're used to characters just kind of shrugging it off and going about their day, without it stressing anyone out :)
Technically, she didn't tell anyone Clark's secret. She simply set the scene to ensure that Chloe would find out for herself. She died a lawyer.
I loved the scene was Lois talks him down from killing Sandman. She’s understanding but near pleading to stop I just loved their interactions. I always think Erica and Tom have great chemistry no matter what type of scene they have.
Lois is pivotal in two big ways
She gives the advice that makes Chloe a good friend, the same advice that she her self follows later, showing that she truly loves Clark
She Stops Clark from killing someone and consoles him in his grief.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the 1st incarnation of a Lois Lane where Clark's destiny was woven in with their relationship. Like he how he becomes Superman only after their love is confirmed. Such a smart way to make her character essential and not just like a cool love interest, or worse a plot device (as, unfortunately, Lana became)
She’s not the only one to do that.
Just gotta give props to Michael P. Always love his questions and his passion for Smallville is inspiring. I used to think no one was a bigger Smallville fan than me but he definitely beats me out! So glad to see him be officially on the pod.
Definitely feels right for him to get to have this episode for his appearance, I'm sure it would be a popular choice!
Love how Tom's face lights up at the thought of forcing Rosie to watch something he's not in! 😂
Lois talking Clark down is awesome
The fact that Lois found Clark with Alicia and was able to see a different side of him and really view him in a new light was a great choice. Instead of just like his dad finding him.
Why is Michael bitching about Lois making those remarks in the karaoke bar? That was entirely within character.
While I usually bitch about Rosenbaum, gotta give him a pass on that one, since A LOT of fans claim it's out of character for Lois as well. They are too in love with her character, to actually notice she's EXTREMELY rude pretty often, so like you said, absolutely in character for her.
@@MrDziublaI disagree with him and them all. I usually disagree with people anyway because I tend to like the episodes that people don’t like
Totally agree on the "Fandom" that Michael P speaks of. I'm 43 now, but I was like in my late teens when Smallville came and I was SOOOO hooked. I never missed an episode when it was airing, and bought each season DVD as they came out and went back to watch them again, and I think I can safely say that here 20 years later, I've probably watched Smallville in its entirety at least 20 times. Well, I said I never missed it when it aired, but I forgot that in 2009 I did because I was deployed to Iraq, but I certainly caught up when I got home.
I always thought it was sad that Alicia died thinking that even Clark thought her guilty.
That's the most heartbreaking part!! She'll never know!
I really loved how this episode was built so it wasn't really about the mystery or the villain, it was about Clark sort of emotionally betraying someone in a way that can never be taken back. It is one of the few times non-mind-altered Clark is not clearly in the right about everything. He makes mistakes in his actions, but he always tries to fight for people who need it. Here he failed to fight for Alicia even though he could've. It's a more subtle emotional throughline than just the raw grief and anger at the end, but it feels like that's the thing that would stick with Clark for the rest of his life.
@@jerodastClark can be a hypocrite when how wrong he is without suspecting proof evidence who done it from the attacks not the first time think Alicia did it who’s framed when telling her too turn herself in by telling his powers too didn’t think it thru that effects in common, Tom does brillant also dislike the self blame when it’s tough when something’s can’t undo what’s done but adapt also it’s the parents were wrong about Alicia of told you so now was framed backfired judgement and didn’t owe Clark apology only Chloe
I loved when Clark was really vulnerable with Lois at the end of this episode, and I agree with Tom it brings Lois closer to Clark....start of their beautiful relationship 💕
hey i follow you on instagram lol
@wellingdurancefans what timeframe did he say it brought them closer. I think I missed it.
@@_cameroncarey_I do too! Lol
Well, he says that it was a script thing and they're bringing Lois in to bring her into the fold more.
Like how the car catch, is a nice homage to the original Superman comicbook cover.
Part of the reason, it is an epic scene for Smallville.
Mind-fucked Chloe is my favorite part of this episode.
"Chloe, have you seen Clark?"
"What? Have I seen Clark do what?"
The emotion that Tom transmitted when finding Alicia, i felt that ❤️🩹
To add to what patreon guest Michael said about rewatching a series.
For me, I've discovered that on a show like Smallville, on each rewatch I'm at a different point in my life, a different level of life experiences/maturity, so even though I've seen the episodes before, how I reflect on them changes on each rewatch. As there are lots of facets/layers to be discovered.
And that's a testament to the show's creators, writers, and actors. ❤
Love the podcast.
Pariah is a pivotal episode in so many ways. Firstly, with Alicia showing Chloe the truth about Clark. This revelation for Chloe changed the Chlark relationship forever and for the better, their friendship in the next few seasons was so strong and Chloe grew in maturity lots and became Clark's most trusted confidant. Alicia's death was shocking yet also kinda muted in a way. Ryan made a valid point with how her death could have went out with a bigger bang. Tom's performance in that scene with Clark finding Alicia was incredibly powerful. His crying out always gives me the chills. Lois's advice to Chloe about keeping a big secret was just how she handled it in early S10. She waited for Clark to tell her in his own time when she found out his secret. Which I think is pretty cool. I think Michael's complaints about the opening scene with Clark and Alicia entering the Talon whilst Chloe and Lois singing karaoke is a bit overkill. Clark and Alicia couldn't hide away forever and as they were still together they had to show face some time, regardless of how awkward it was. Lois's comment "first he marries the girl, then he dates her" was amusing and a very Lois thing to say. Is the title a late April fool lol no one gave this episode bombs. Although Michael came close with how he strangely detests that opening scene. It really wasn't THAT bad.
Tom explaining how Alicia is two face 😂😂😂
The car scene when Alicia shows Chloe Clark’s powers was this “finally” moment! Love it
It's just a perfectly composed scene, and the look on Allison's face is iconic.
One of my favorite "scenes" of the show is the montage they play for the "previously on Smallville" in the season 4 finale haha. A big part of that is this moment. It feels like the whole series and certainly the season pivots around it.
Love Michael’s take on him explaining that scene at the start 😂😂😂😂
Got to say I enjoyed the emotional song that played out in the end as Clark Kent goes to visit Alicia's grave and Chloe coming to comfort him was just touching.
The song is Deeper Water by Minnie Driver, the actress!
@@aprisk81 That song was just beautiful. Thanks for the information.
James Marshall's name(One of the best directors of Smallville) is on one the tombstones just before the credits start to roll in this episode! It says on the tombstone that he died of inflexibility! 😂 Check it out!
Nice
Great podcast episode! 🌹🌹🌹 I really appreciate that this podcast exists at this point in time...watching Smallville with my husband helped me get through a depressive episode recently (I have Bipolar 1 Disorder.) So, its a real treat to watch a podcast featuring actors that were on the show. Love it. This particular episode definitely had some defining moments for several of the characters. Chloe learning Clark's secret, was huge. She was a friend and confidant for the rest of the series. We see Clark dealing with grief. Even the moment where Lois was able to stop Clark from killing the Sandman dude...that was an example of how she was capable of grounding Clark, and it prevented him from doing something that would haunt him. I also was cracking up at the comments about the opening scene ...OMG. 😂😂
Hey Guys, I went to prison in 2000 (framed lol) and when I got a TV I started watching the show every week.
I know this sounds stupid but your show always gave me something good and entertaining to look forward to. Thanks
Stuey from Straya (I'm an Aussie too) makes a good great point. This episode is great for character growth, it's the first time Clark, unaffected by K, nearly kills someone so it informs him as Superman that he needs to control his anger because he could easily kill someone. The episode also teaches Clark about loss and that "despite all his powers he can't save everyone". As Tom points out it also pushes Clark down the Lois path and away from Lana even more. Alicia, although a great character, with great chemistry is also a pretty bad person. She constantly tries to manipulate Clark, tells Chloe his secret despite promising Clark to keep it, she betrays the trust that let her out of the institution by taking the bracelet off. She's a great example of how sometimes we fall in love with someone despite them being a bit toxic for us.
Started like a standard "Freak of the week" but it became so much more at the end. I don't know how many times I watched Torch scene with Lois and Chloe. I really like how Lois was so serious and thoughtful when she gave that advice to Chloe. There was a lot of guilt on Chloe's face, when she finally realised why Clark didn't tell her anything. Wall of weird was something that she regretted doing and this scene was perfectly executed by director and of course Allison and Erica. Graveyard scene was another brilliant scene. Silence, background music, closer look of Tom's ( and Allison too) face. Very touching. It's so cool to see Michael P.🙂
It’s too bad she ended up being forgotten.
yeah GREAT foreshadowing for Lois! cuz she ends up behaving the exact same way when she finds out on her own too!
@@DarthDread-oh2ne Who?
@@asyouwish3636 Lois was often not so serious😀 so this was pretty unusual ( for her).
Alicia.
Michael missing something regarding the opening scene. Lois meant to whisper to Chloe but forgot she was holding a microphone, hence everyone heard it. it's comedic and shows another example of Lois' foot in mouth type personality.
Michael tends to become tunnel visioned because he is soo focused on “hating on the show” and tends to miss obvious plot points that he usually makes fun of and it is completely irritating.
I love how Chloe remembers that scene in the premiere of season 5, "I think when I saw you catch.... a car like it was a beach ball"
Only she left Alicia part out..😏 when still at the torch, wouldn’t just happen to be walking at site at Road & Bridge destination where the car coming fast in miles per hr she must’ve forgotten that too 🤷🏻♂️😏
“An answer regarding the question you asked the last episode about why fans keep coming back”
When I was in high school I remember being alone and introverted, I remember seeking purpose and feeling sort of isolated in the world. I would come home from school and turn on WB to see Clark on smallville, going through a similar but much different journey completely alone, not knowing his place in the world, watching people like Whitney try to find their purpose by going off to the military, dealing with loss of a parent or a friend, being hurt from rejection, learning how to handle temptations and everything else we as humans deal with. Crushing on a neighbor girl that inevitably had no interest in me back.(I wasn’t as lucky as Clark there)I related to that all that and in many ways still do. It made me feel less “alone” when I watched it.
It’s the heart of smallville’s characters and the very “real” human struggles they go through that makes the show so amazing. The irony is the show is about the an alien from another planet but yet it manages to have more heart and human elements than a lot of modern shows. It’s the characters, the journeys, the relatable human mistakes, the escape from reality, and the show trying its hardest to be authentic that makes it all work.
Sure it has its flaws,(like Clark robbing a bank for 3 months without a mask and not having the cops out after him). And It’s never been a “bravo Vince” stand-up-and -clap masterpiece, but the acting and the heart of the show will always keep bringing me back. It has helped me through some tough times and provided an outlet.
Always hold on to Smallville!
I find there's an honesty in the willingness to be cheap or cheesy even when Smallville is not being the best that it can be, which is comforting and charming. If you take something like the Arrowverse and it has sort of a lot of lame, mass market, we-know-the-fans-can't-get-enough-of-this elements, it feels more calculated. I dunno it's probably just a matter of which one you saw first. But to me Smallville INVENTING a lot of the superhero TV show formula gives it a pass on things that turn me off a lot of others. (Granted, I couldn't stick with Smallville either all the way to the end, but we'll see if that changes as we go.)
This episode was important because it was a major turning point in Allison Mack’s character. Chloe started on her journey to being Clark’s woman in the chair, his support and confidant. This is also the first episode where we see Clark struggling to not use lethal force. Finally, this episode also starts to establish the strong connection between Clark and Lois that will be central to the story in later seasons
Did anybody else notice the call outs to the Superman movie?
Superman lifting Lois’ crushed red car out of the trench and setting it on the ground / Clark easily catching and setting Alicia’s car on the ground.
Superman’s chilling “NO” when he finds Lois dead / Clark’s “NO” when he finds Alicia hanging from a rope.
Interesting! Funny you should mention it, but for some reason at the start of this video, the Superman movie poster behind Ryan caught my eye. The top billing is Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman! Christopher Reeve is "Also starring"! Now believe me I get why you'd emphasize Brando and Hackman, but I never heard of not including the lead actor's name in the top line. I get Reeve was not a household name among superhero fans yet, but come on, seems like basic principles of film credit!
@@jerodast They did the same thing with Batman. Jack Nicholson got top billing over Michael Keaton.
Yes, I half-expected him to start running West very quickly...
I've been to a bunch of cons, and inevitably most people that ask questions during Q&As are awkward or visibly very nervous. I know the 2 scenarios aren't exactly the same, but Michael did a great job! He was calm, collected, and consistently made great points! Kudos to him.
What I liked about this episode is that I felt it left Ckark partially feeling like he could never reveal his secret to others after how they treated Alicia via her own abilities.
YESSS it reinforces his fear of the consequences
Everything that happens in Clark's journey shapes him into Superman. The loss, anger and how to deal with situations.
Michael P explained almost every reason why Smallville is my favorite show
Can we get a talkville t shirt made for Ryan that says "Look i'm here for Science" please
Michael defending Alicia and calling her innocent all bc she's semi attractive but clearly overlooking the awful stuff she did made me shake my head. But thank god Tom gets it. Tom told him like it is- "What DO YOU MEAN she's innocent. She CHOSE to do all the stuff she did!" Thank you Tom, you're the real one.
This!!
Well, she was improving thanks to her treatment and in these episodes it was clear that she still needed help... she was impulsive and careless yes but she definitely wasn't evil at all by the end...
Because Michael is LEX. Alicia is just a dumb blonde, female Lex clone. Did you really expect him to see the irony??
@@eddysalas3187 She was not, el delusional, otherwise she wouldn't have outed him. Stop the bad excuses.
@@radicalreactions1633 She def was getting better but she wasn't completely cured, all she needed was a real chance... and she never would've done it if it hadn't been for the terrible script they used to progress the story to replace Pete with Chloe... Anyway...
Guys thank you for making all of our Wednesdays more bright and happier ❤
So glad I wasn’t alone in being completely confused about that karaoke scene existing lol. Otherwise this was one of my favorite episodes. I never missed an episode when it premiered until this one and was so mad. Even more frustrating was that it took FOREVER for it to rerun so I could officially get to watch it. Such a great, bomb-dropping episode. 🌹 🌹 🌹
How Tom
Laughs when Michael says “ that is the 3rd assassin attempt at talon” 😂😂😂😂😂
I was confused for a sec cuz I was like "I'm positive there have been a LOT more attempted murders at the Talon" :)
@@jerodastit was. He should have said at least 3
There are some great scenes in this episode. The scene where Chloe discovers Clark's secret has always been one of my favorites. Alison played that "HOLY SHIT!" moment so well without saying a word. Though I always wondered why, when Clark puts the car down and sees that Alicia isn't in it, he just sort of shrugs and leaves. Wouldn't you want to call her and be like "um where'd you go, are you okay?" The scene with Clark and Jonathan where Clark is sitting there heartbroken bouncing the ball off the wall is so powerful, they put so much into such a short scene and it hits so hard.
I do have one gripe about the whole Alicia storyline, though, and it's something that happens next season when, at one point, Lana queries Clark about his relationship with Alicia (we'll talk about that when the time comes) and Clark's response is "It's only ever been you, Lana." Completely devaluing his entire relationship with Alicia, invalidating the power of this episode, and doing Alicia REALLY dirty.
Yup, 100% agree
Smallville is nothing if not "give people the big moments and don't worry too much about how well the writing holds up" haha. Yeah it's silly for him not to call. I guess we have to assume he ran home and then called Alicia a minute later. I can't remember if Clark owns a cell phone yet but perhaps he left it behind in his haste.
I didn't mind that "only you" line later on. First of all he's fudging a bit to be romantic in the moment. Second he's not lying that he's never stopped being obsessed with Lana (gr). Third...I'm not convinced he REALLY LOVED Alicia at this point. They only had 2 dates before she revealed her crazy side originally. She put him on Red K before things could get too far on their own last time. This time they were working on it but after all that baggage I can't blame him for still being VERY ATTRACTED and CARING for her but not at a point where he COMPLETELY loves her. He could get there, perhaps quite soon, but not yet. It would just be too much, after everything else. So it fits for me.
I don't think that line was a dig to Alicia it was just truthful because Clark didn't get to that point of "I'm in love with you" with Alicia. They had 2 dates and the rest was Alicia doing crazy stuff to him like drugging him with red K or locking him in room with kryptonite... He was attracted to her and liked her but she always ruined things before their relationship could grow and didn't give him the chance to naturally and truly fall for her. But truly that line was just Clark's way of telling Lana that he never stopped loving her.
Im am sooo glad Tom and Michael have this show. I hope it never ends. I lnow it will but still these 2 work so well together
Watching this podcast makes me want Tom Micheal and Ryan to do rewatches and reviews of so many other tv shows. They’re just so fun to watch!
After first ad : 20:50
After second ad : 36:18
After third ad : 47:54
I know Chloe is very much am investigative journalist but we have also seen her love and devotion for Clark in various ways.. at the time, I never doubted she would keep his secret until she felt he was ready or it was the right time to let him know she knew. BFF!
All the haters forget that while she told Lionel she'd spy on Clark in her most frustrated moments, she never gave him a thing of value, including keeping his secret in Metropolis all summer, to the point Lionel considered her to have betrayed their entire arrangement. I always loved how her need to KNOW stuff competed with her fundamentally good and loyal personality, but never beat it. Well, now she knows, and her loyalty is still there.
I have to say that this episode always stood out to me because Alicia’s character was so impactful, especially for only being in three episodes, and of course, Chloe finding out was such a pivotal moment for the entire series.
One big reason I really enjoyed seeing Clark pre-Superman is because Smallville began airing as I entered High School so it was like I was going to high school with him.
Tom always laughing when Rosie shits on the show just makes it that much more funnier to me.
Just did a rewatch on Monday of Pariah. Watching the podcast episode now. That scene with Tom finding Alicia in the barn is so heartbreaking. Tom crushed that scene!! Thank you guys so much for doing this amazing podcast week after week ❤ Happy Talk Ville Wednesday ❤️☄️🌽
definitely agree with Michael P. I have never seen a show like Smallville and I have never loved a show like I have loved Smallville. It really is my favorite show of all time
May need to save a seat for Michael P next to Ryan on the couch as a Talkville regular/employee - dude is very well spoken and has a ton of knowledge
The movie you're thinking of, Tom, where Steve McQueen throws the baseball against the wall is THE GREAT ESCAPE.
This episode gets 3 roses for me. Tuning in from So. Cal! Love the podcast Michael, Tom, and Ryan! You guys are the best!
The scene where Tom is holding Alicia really hit me. It’s one of the saddest moments of Smallville for sure. Clark experiencing loss for the first time. Tremendous acting from Tom! Lois showing up to offer some comfort to him was also amazing. Then she kept him from killing Tim. A wonderful moment between Clark and Lois. Not time ruin the fight scene! Very well done!!
Jason being protective over Lana was super believable and I loved Jensen’s performance. Clark saving him again was awesome!
My favorite scene of the episode was Chloe finding out about Clark! It was a turning point in my opinion for their relationship. Now Chloe understands why Clark was so mysterious for all this time.
Of course we can’t forget about the wonderful Jane Seymour. Her scenes are so fun to watch! Love her so much! Dr. Quinn is one of my mom’s favorite shows!
Clark’s interaction with his parents in this episode was incredible. We see Clark struggling trying to convince his parents and friends that Alicia wasn’t guilty. The scene with Clark in the loft with his parents was as always amazing. Clark is really sad 😞 and I just want to hug him.
The scene between Chloe and Lois at the Torch was my second favorite scene. Lois’s advice to Chloe was amazing. Allow the person to tell you when they feel comfortable to open up. Chloe did just that. From this episode on Chloe really shined in the show. She was always my favorite character. The line when she said “Clark why didn’t you just tell me?” Such a good line and really sets the tone for the whole episode.
The graveyard scene between Clark and Chloe was my third favorite scene. She really was sincere when she said “I’m here for you if you ever need to talk.” She still has so much love for him. Chloe was always Clark’s friend but from this episode on and as the seasons progress she becomes a very big part in Clark’s life. I love how Tom played this scene. He stared straight ahead. I loved how he did that. He looked so sad. I just wanted to grab him and hold him tight!! Tom amazing job! ❤️❤️🙏
Everyone in this episode was amazing! 🤩
Love to all! ❤️❤️🙏
Chloe and Lois' relationship is a highlight of season 4 to me. Aside from the Kents, they are the only characters that (at this point) love and trust each other without any ulterior motive or suspicion. They're strictly ride or die.
Aw that's true. I always love sibling love on screen and their cousin love is pretty close.
Lois was always there to cheer Chloe up and help her get over Clark. It's crazy to think that Alison was nasty to Erica in real life. While Chloe was jealous of Lana on the show, Alison was jealous of Erica IRL 👽 Goes to show they're great actresses..
Loved Michael as the guest! I would say why this show is so successful is the moments. Smallville created amazing endings to each episode that made you feel emotional in some kind of way!
The car catching scene was a huge adrenaline rush and Chloe’s look felt like she was the very first person to see Superman. It has such an amazing Superman feel. What a moment! That’s why 🌹🌹🌹s.
🌹🌹🌹GREAT addition to the podcast! the video calls w fans! I've said since the the beginning how much I appreciate that it feels like we're part of the conversation and this is just another proof of their sincerity the way Tom and Michael are w the audience.
plus totally love that w the video calls they can really explore the questions that we all are looking for answers to
Lois was the best thing about the episode, between the fun karaoke moment and giving a good advice to Chloe at the end ❤
LMAO, talk about fanboy blinders.
She was overbearing AF.
yeah in the beginning she was pretty harsh! in S5 Fragile she is super judgy about the little girl too. . but i think that was an overcorrection to show her character arc and how much she grows over the series
i loved seeing lois again in this episode!
@@Costas22 LOL i'm definitely not what you called me, everyone can like or dislike a character, i think she was right
Lois can make mistakes with saying things she's thinking out loud, like in the karaoke scene. It can be a flaw of hers when its harsh comments. But, I don't think it's fair to completely bash Lois about the rest of the episode. Lois was the one who figured out who the real killer is and told Clark right away. She was also there to pull him back from murder and comfort him. Her advice to Chloe at the end about dealing with someone's secret is perfect and great foreshadowing for how she handles Clark's secret in the future.
Michael P was great, it is weird because I never met him real-life only seen in Talkville when he asks question (good questions as well) but it almost like I know him because I have seen him so much over the course of Tallville asking questions. It is like Ryan who has now become part of the Talkville cast and I like having him there and he really seems to be enjoying the show (I say this because before it was like he was going through the motions) and has great insights as well - Bryce too. Michael P just like the last guest was great and a true fan of Smallville. I am a die hard Smallville fan, I love that show so much and I can't tell you how much I rewatched the show, I also love engage with fans on various social media platforms all over the world - just love it.
The patreon guest was such a good addition! He really brought out good reactions from you all as well as having good insight! Wonderful episode
If Chloe was ever going to call Pete, he better answer with, "Damn, who dis?"
Didn’t happen cause Sam’s not in it after wrote off
We know. But it would have been good to hear from him.
This is where we see Chloe's love for Clark take a turn to protector. What I had a small issue with was Alicia revealing Clark's secret to Chloe just so they could be together. I do get it though. She's basically saying "Why can I be myself and you have to hide?" I do like that Lois was the person that kept Clark from killing Tim. Chloe and Clark at the cemetery and she is truly there for him. My favorite scene was where Chloe and Lois talk about "the secret" and how Chloe should be supportive and hope that one day that person would tell them on their own. That is where Chloe and Lois are really true to Clark than anyone else. I would give this 1 1/2 roses because it closes out this part of the Alicia story. The cemetery scene hit at the heart though.
At first, I hated that Alicia took the choice away from Clark, maybe he would have told Chloe on his own maybe (but probably) not but now he'll never get that chance...
then I thought it was just part of her pathology. she's so fearful and desperate and over-reactive, making dangerously rash decisions...she's this way, not from her powers but from how she is treated b/c of her powers. And once again she fell back into that pattern and reality was clouded for her. once again, she truly wasn't trying to hurt Clark but she did want to manipulate his behavior just like w the Red K.
But now, now that I'm on my 3rd watch of the show I realize the reason Alicia revealed Clark's abilities to Chloe was actually all about Chloe's redemption arc! The writers needed a way to make Chloe relevant past HS, and the best way was to have her learn about Clark's ability.
@@asyouwish3636 I totally agree with you saying that Alicia took that choice away from Clark. I don't think he would have told her though. I think someone besides his parents had to know his secret but when Clark loses his memory Chloe really showed her true colors and that really showed how strong Clark and Chloe's relationship grew. I also liked how as this season went on, Chloe hinted to Clark that she knew without telling him.
Didn’t like the way writers made Alicia took Clark’s choice away out of Chloe’s redemption only doesn’t stop her making self centers about making rash decisions by manipulating, getting even over not telling her?? doesn’t make her a truly best friend in unapologetic👎😑
@@miguelsilva3867 yes he was never gonna tell her! but you're right, they did need Clark to have a separate character know and support him. I never loved what they made that person be Chloe lol but that's a whole other rant!
when he loses his memory, I thought for a split second that Lois was gonna find out! but as much as it pains me to admit, yes Chloe was great w him in that ep.
@@asyouwish3636 I didn't mind it and what I liked about Chloe was that she never took advantage of it where Pete crossed the line a couple of times. I did agree with Michael about Lois at the beginning. You would think that Lana would make a comment like that because Lois really never met Alicia to make a snide remark. I could have done without the opening scene.
These guys are always great to watch, been a fan of Tom and Michael for such a huge chunk of my life, I was a kid and now I'm 39 and you guys are still just as awesome! Thank you for the content you continue to create for us because you don't have to but for us you do!
Ryantist back at it again ⏳️
I remember not liking Chloe for a while at this point, and her handling of the secret completely changed how I viewed her until the end. It was the best thing that happened to her character.
The thing that really bugged me about this episode was how it was sad and tragic, and Clark is obviously traumatized, but the following episode there’s no mention of it, and the whole thing was just dropped.
Clark's parents said at the end of the episode that Clark hadn't left the barn in days following Alicia's death and Clark said how guilty he felt for her death. That pretty much covered it.
@@vbrandy7088so he’s been bouncing that stupid ball for days?
@@RedK5 apparently 😂
Many thanks to Rosey, Ryan, Tom and patron Michael! 🦸
Definitely a seminal episode of the show as a whole. Chloe finding out Clark's secret definitely set the stage for their newfound dynamic for the rest of the show's history.
Season 5 has another Chloe moment that clears up Clark's origin for her. All told, Allison Mack was a real mover on the show. First-class acting.
I love that Lois was there for Clark in the end despite her criticism of his choices in the beginning. Also, Clark seemed to have inspired Alicia to be a better person but it was easy to see that she still had a dark side to her. I was happy that she didn't last too long even though it was enjoyable to watch Clark being torn by his heart and his head. It challenged him as a Hero. Alicia also served a good purpose in the end by revealing Clarks secret to Chloe which turns out being great for Clark in the end. Another thing I love about the episode was the advice Lois gave to Chloe.
Great show as always, gentlemen. Thank you, once again for doing this rewatch show. I don't comment that often, but I must say, Michael P. was great. Seeing the patrons show up has been interesting. 🌹🌹🌹
I remember being so shocked the first time I saw this episode. I couldn't believe that they had done that. It was very impactful.
Chloe finding Clark's secrets was a big moment for the show and especially for her character development. This was a great scene. I loved how Chloe handled knowing his secrets without Clark being aware of it. In that cemetery scene I feel like she was talking about Clark and not Alicia, well done.
One of the best episodes, despite the first scene. Chloe seeing Clark using his powers is one of the most emotionally satisfying moments in the series.
I was definitely caught off guard as a fan when Chloe found out. I remember watching the scene where she teleports her out of the car, and I kept thinking that Clark wouldn't show up or that something would prevent her from finding out. I remember saying, 'No way, she actually knows' and then I thought eventually she going to lose her memory. Michael P is right; her finding out had ramifications across the entire show. You're going to love Season 5 when Clark loses his powers and relies on Chloe. There's a moment on comms where she and Clark have a conversation about Pete knowing and seeing his spaceship - Chloe's reaction is awesome.
I remember reading fan sites, and everyone was impressed by how Chloe protected Clark's secret, even protecting him without his knowledge. Her knowing was a game-changer, and she went from being part of a love triangle to something more. Unlike Pete, she actually liked knowing, which is different from Pete, who was burdened by the secret and kept worrying that he might reveal it accidentally. Chloe wasn't.
Interesting of note.
Michael Rosenbaum had framed photos in the background
Michael P has photo and frames picture in the background
Tom Welling has photo and frames in the background
Sarah Carter had photos and framed pictured in the background
Michael was a great addition to this episode, I appreciated his thoughts and how he progressed the conversation, as well as his enthusiasm - you guys could do with him bringing him back if someone’s away a week or something.
I don’t know you Michael, but well done.
The off-camera death gave it an element of surprise and shock. We got to discover and experience it with Clark. Also don't forget how Lois reacts to Clark.
Tom I hope you had a great time in Sonora last weekend!!! We surely enjoyed having you there !!!
Great interview. !!! Great show!!! Great guys all of you. Thanks for this podcast!!!
Damn, how special it must be to have an in depth conversation like that with the boys on the actual podcast to live here on the Internet forever
Chloe really does take over the Pete Ross role here. Actually, I'd always thought her character was more like Pete Ross than Pete Ross. The reason I say that is that in the comics, Pete finds out Clark's secret by accident but doesn't let Clark know he knows. The whole purpose of his character was to have someone else besides Clark and the Kents trying to protect his identity. Pete would do whatever he could to do that without ever telling Clark he knew. For those who don't know, the way he found out is that they were on a camping trip and in the darkness of night during a storm Clark changed to Superboy at just the moment when lightning flashed through the sky, illuminating his change to the only other person awake at the time and that was of course Pete. Pete was even awarded an honorary membership to the Legion of Super-Heroes for his loyalty to Clark in keeping his secret.
wow! thanks for the background. . it's weird I've been a Superman fan since I was at least 5, although never read the comics, and I've seen all his live action content and the animated show. I don't even remember Pete at all!
yes I agree that Chloe was filling his shoes. and the show did need a "guy in the chair" (which I believe network later perfected will Felicity Smoak and Frisco Ramone). my problem is that Chloe turned me off in the pilot so it was really hard for me to get behind her. I never really felt that she earned that role of being his right hand man. it always felt like all the times Clark forgives her was more about his character than her behavior. it always felt like her cyber/hacking "knowledge" was just plot induced.
I've watched the series twice (working on 3rd time w the podcast) so now I'm a little more patient and tolerant, but it's still hard cuz S1-3 she was so obsessed and resentful and Alison Mack, who is fine as an actor, chose to play her very desperate. (you can see the diff when she's playing other characters, like when Chloe gets possessed by ghosts, witches, A.I. etc). but it is what it is and I'm learning to accept she had a major role whether I believed she deserved it or not lol
I can’t wait for Rosenbaum and Ryan to see season 9 and season 10 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
Awesome podcast, I loved Pariah and having Chloe finally finding out about Clark. This way she now has inside information about him that makes her closer to him than anyone else (apart from Martha and Jonathan) without having the romantic element she knows she probably will never have. Knowing Clark’s secret rises her above any romance and gives her a fierce, protective, stronger bond with him.
Gee, Micheal P, you speak so well and eloquently. If I was on the podcast, I’d be a blubbering mess, unable to string a coherent sentence together, all in a weird Aussie accent 😂😂
Well done Michael P!😀💕
Ryan/ "I'm here for science. As we have discussed." 🤣
Grateful that you guys appreciated the importance of this episode enough, and like Tom said, "There are a lot of great scenes!" throughout! Tom slays the performance as Clark in the entire episode! Interesting to learn that Alicia is the 100th person killed based on the TALK VILLE count. All the mentions of the "Karaoke Scene" are fun!
"Pariah" is the first episode of Season Four that doesn't have a kiss between any two characters. Season Four's Episodes 01-11 all featured at least one kiss in each episode. This consistency is something that didn't occur in the previous three seasons and will not occur again in the next six seasons.
Congratulations To Michael P!
Haha that is a really random kiss trivia, thank you!
I'm glad the guys appreciated this one pretty well despite the very weak freak of the week element and Michael's Favorite Scene haha. Was hoping Ryan at least would see it in his heart to give 2 roses anyway, but I can't blame him for feeling like a season 1 throwaway-level villain brought it down a bit.
@@jerodast Thanks! Grateful for the Roses "Pariah" received since some episodes simply deserve a whole bouquet, and this episode even ended with Clark holding a rose.
Can we keep Micheal P on the show he has such a strong personality, which coincides well with Micheal and Tom. They match each other so well! At least bring him back!! ❤
This definitely makes me want to binge watch Smallville. One of my favorite shows
I feel like I know Michael P already 😂 after so many videos from him
I think the reason Rosenbaum hates Smallville is that he’s projecting his own hatred for himself. He’s crying for help.
🧠👍
I think he hates the show because it's simply not his cup of tea. Teen Sci fi/drama is clearly not something he likes to watch and can relate to.
@@vbrandy7088this podcast was his idea
@@RedK5 I know
@@vbrandy7088 so why did he want this?
Worth the awkward scenes to see Chloe find out about Clark. That particular scene was a high point of the series
Michael P is a REAL one, hope to see him more often
One of my favorite episodes, love each time a character discovers Clark's secret
First time I cried on Smallville. 😢 I really really liked Alicia and Clark's relationship. He could truly be himself with her, and he doesn't have that with Lana or Lois. I wanted more of her. Of course the redeemed version of her, not the crazy one 😊.
Oh come now, you must be like all the rest of us who wanted more of her including just a LITTLE of that crazy side haha.
@@jerodast 🤣 maybe a little bit of it. They had mad chemistry though. That's what I liked.