Kimblee Debates with Alphonse
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Solf J. Kimblee debates with Alphonse Elric about his purpose to save everyone and his attempt to violate the rules of Equivalent Exchange. Source: Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood Episode 52
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What's interesting about Kimblee was that he admires people who stick by their beliefs. Alphonse and Edward want to restore their bodies, but not at the cost of the lives of others. They stay true to that principle, no matter what. In the end, this and Pride sacrificing his ideals were what caused Kimblee to step in and save Edward. Kimblee may have been a terrible person, but he was never a hypocrite.
Whistle!
Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap.
Whistle! Whistle!
Yes solid comment, being a hypocrite is probably the worst thing in my opinion.
Kimblee is a mass murder who killed thousands if not millions guys
bd06m0030 and? No one is saying that Kimblee wasn't a terrible person who deserved his fate, but the fact a lot of us can't help but appreciate that he sticks by his personal morals no matter what and his hatred of hypocrisy.
Its the difference between 2003 Kimblee cursing Alphonse's name for ruining his fun while 2009 Kimblee can respect the Elric's choices even if he personally wouldn't make them.
bd06m0030
And he admits it and will say that’s why he joined the military because he loves inflicting pain not because of the whole “ to serve my country “ trope every solider says to make themselves feel better
Kimblee: Why didn't you just use the stone to restore your body?
Alphonse: That would end the anime. We're due for 64 episodes.
Facts
He saw it as a problem because he's sacrificing others. They went over this earlier in the anime.
@@engineergaming5989 issa joke
@@engineergaming5989 r/woooooosh
That's why fmab breaks the laws, it goes over a stack
You know you're badass when you pause in the middle of a fight just to debate points of view.
Gotta love Kimblee
because pride is gone and now he can talk without a homonculus in the way perhaps
this happens in like every anime.
but every anime doesn't do the way Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood does it.
+SB4M Many do.
SavageRush012 not like fmab...
Amazing he was able to speak so clearly with the stone in his mouth..
Kermit F it's actually in his stomach. He can regurgitate it at will which, I'll admit, is cool, and all kinds of fuckin weird
David Blaine level of regurgitation *.*
1010ryuzaki he wouldn't even need to have it his mouth to use it lol he just throws it up to show off
1010ryuzaki he doesn't even need to have it his mouth to use it lol he just throws it up to show off
what I find amazing is that he can keep it in his stomach and it never passes!
I love how Kimblee just casually sits down debating philosophy with Alphonse, as if the world wasn't literally ending in several hours... xD
It what
@@truelove9476 nationwide transmutation circle
I honestly don't even think Kimblee cared about all that, he just lived according to his own ideals and beliefs. He was probably the closest to unbending as Edward and Alphonse
@@Phantom-ZER0 I mean fair enough, but remember that he's a HUMAN and even Pride did not eat him, he'd still end up caught up in the nation-wide Philosopher's Stone transmutation circle, right? He was responsible for carving the blood crest in Briggs, he knows exactly what's gonna happen - and unlike the delusional higher-ups in Central, he doesn't believe he's getting a free immortality pass... There's "risking death" variant of dedication, and then there's Kimblee, with 100% understanding that he WILL have his soul ripped out of his body alongside everybody else in the country.... o_0
I picture this as Kimblee just want a conversation to pass time because he cant get his philosopher stone out of its stomach
Maybe, but he did respect the elrics on a personal level. So maybe he was intringued and wanted to argue philosophy.
@@nachomanrandythe anime writer just wanted to give a twist to the audience that's it.
@@fuzailhasan7856 You must be fun at parties...
@@menacingmoonsquid parties.... Who knows maybe I am and Maybe I am not , what about you Dear Friend of Darkness what do you have to show to us today.
@@fuzailhasan7856 Oh I dont go to parties there is a pandemic going on
The realist vs the idealist
@Abhinav Bisht Indeed only power wealth and talent get you anywhere in the real world.
@@sentimentalmariner590 what if you don't have any of those?
@@TheMETALICA40 Then you fail. Unless you are incredibly lucky or good looking.
@@sentimentalmariner590 so I will assume you have one of those things you mentioned,but what about hard work?
@@TheMETALICA40 Look back through history friend, hard work can help surely. Yet many people work their fingers to the bone just to get by, While others get by because they had better opportunities, stable families, money, or other gifts not everyone has. I wish hard work was all someone needed to get by but it's not. You can slave away working sixty to seventy hour weeks while some rich schmuck doesn't have to do anything at all and you still won't be as well off as him. We don't even have the worst of it sadly. At least we were lucky enough to be born in first world countries. You think some Ethiopian kid living in filth and death will ever be a lawyer because of hardwork? No those people are lucky to reach adulthood at all. I come from a poor family my dad left and my ma was a lying drug addict but I was always lucky and smart so I got into a mantle house through a church and managed to get a good job through connections. It's important to realize though not everyone has the things we take for granted and someone is always worse off than you.
Kimblee's a monster but he sure isn't mindless.
Pretty damn realistic to real world monsters, despite their heinous actions (rape, mass murder, pedophilia, etc) they're still human and still think.
And to be honest that's more terrifying than being mindless.
Grandmaster JayD "...you have a better chance against 10 zombies, than 1 hardened criminal..."
Grandmaster JayD you know genius lives only one storey above madness
You touch it with a needle.
Evil is quite banal when you get down to it. For psychopaths their urges are just part of existence, and they know too well that most regular people are hypocrits in one way or another. A fact they happily point out when getting caught, as they see themselves as the only true sincere ones.
So someone who just has different preferences (children) is as bad as a rapist or even mass murderer. Ikd but i think you cant choose in at least 1/3
@@Animaster89 "different preferences"...? Yeah pedophilia is a fucking disease not a "preference" you fucking neanderthal.
Oh how would I've flipped to see this man ever cross paths with Greed.
Heel Siddhartha Never crossed my mind before but MAN that would've been interesting *sighs* so many possible character interactions, so little time 😢
The depressing thing is, he did... in the 2003 anime. But since 2003 Kimblee is a pretty big disappointment compared to Original Kimblee...
Talyrion nah orginal kimblee was trash tier
@@jeweerly2319 Hm? You prefer the 2003 version? That's a pretty original point of view.
OOOOH!!!!
Usually when a villain starts talking in the middle of battle it's pointless ... but when Kimblee talks it actually makes sense, contributing both to the story and actual battle
What was the story
@@truelove9476 Well you gotta watch it to find out I guess
I like to think that this was the last piece of the puzzle for Ed and Al to come up with equivalent exchange +1
Kimblee was such a better character in the second anime. Seriously, in the 2003 version, he was a generic misanthrope serial killer. How many times have we seen that type of character before? There was absolutely nothing interesting or unique about him. The Brotherhood version is so much are eloquent, well spoken, philosophical, and genuine about his beliefs, with a healthy mix of psychopathy.
I actually watched the 2003 version first and i have to say brotherhood did this character so much better. I also compared death scenes where as brotherhood gave him a fitting end 2003's version just made his already annoying character even more annoying by giving him a typical crazy character death, which is just him going I don't care if I die I still win in the end.
2003 Kimblee generic I kill because I want to They never got to the part of the manga with Smooth Criminal Sherlock Holmes Philosophical Pyromaniac Sociopath Kimblee. So they had to make a character around what was presented and in the Ishval War and he honestly just looked like a maniac who likes blowing things up in that part so cant blame them
666melodeath666 you do have a point.
SnowyWolborg i disagree, 2009 is common child-fighthing anime. 2003 is darker.
I mean in their defense Kimblee had all of two scenes when they made him then, they went off of how it seemed he would be.
Whether you prefer FMA or FMAB you’ve got to admit that FMAB Kimblee is the superior Crimson Alchemist
Yep, I love FMA 03, but this Kimblee is better
True, no matter how much I love FMA this Kimblee is far more interesting.
I disagree, I think they are pretty much equal. Both are intelligent, ruthless, and charismatic.
Oh yeah, no contest, but we get better takes on other characters in 03 too, so it's an equivalent exchange.
@@Fanatic_Foremem Lust and Sloth were much more compelling in 03, for exemple
I'd say both series are good, just different
I like how Kimblee actually listened to Alphonse and considered what he said.
I like how Al decides he isn't taking bs anymore
Lol...he listened entirely out of spite. Just to compose a compelling argument, truly kimblee was a monster.
They are both Alchemists. He may be a psychopath, but he understands the laws of Alchemy. I've always liked this scene in the manga. He was willing to listen to an opposing theory and respond with his own counterargument.
Kimblee: I ate a cat
Alphonse: You make me want to cry. That’s, in my opinion, kind of cruel. But, even so, I do respect your opinion.
Kimblee: I will eat another
Eww
lol
Sorry it will happen again
Confirmed, Kimblee eating cats is now canon.
how this scene should have really gone because of the philosopher's stone in his mouth:
Kimblee: itsh fthe laoww oph eqivablent exschangh
Apparently it was in his stomach
I mean he swallowed it so it would just be gagging noises trying to regurgitate it back up asdfhjkl
This made me laugh way more than it should have.
That... is an amazing job at wordalizing those sounds
😂
Kimblee is such a fascinating character. He speaks only in dark, brutal truth. The way he puts his view into a philosophical way and sounds honest while doing just makes him AWESOME. Also, Alphonse acts so mature here as well, also speaking in his opinion-based truth, we all felt the way he did when Kimblee was talking not only to Al, but to us as the viewer.
Finally someone else realizes the point in both sides and how it relates to the viewer xD.
Most people seem to suggest only kimblees dark logic is correct but that's not the point of the debate and how it relates to the viewer.
"It isn't fair!"
It's life.
It's us that makes life fair or not fair. Everyone dies, but some die sooner because they don't have access to the medical treatment that other people do. We can work to spread that to more people or keep it concentrated in one spot. 'Life's not fair' is a cop out and an abdication of our responsibilities to each other.
MilkmanConspiracy hmm interesting. Essentially, "Life isn't fair" is just an excuse
Life is fair.. said none who have ever experienced war, a beloved child born to incurable disease, the devastation caused by natural disaster, the harshness of the reality of living in nature. Life is in the middle of a great unseen flow, coming to understand itself, life consumes life to survive. And this unseen flow that governs the universe cares nothing for the hubris of us small humans pretending we can control or even understand everything. Pretending life is "fair" is merely naivete or folly. We are not all born in to the same situation. I do agree however that we can all *definitely* afford to treat each other better, many would benefit from everyone learning to see others only as reflections of themselves experiencing another life. We're all made up of the same stardust crapped out of the big bang, we're all made of the same roughly 120 base elements we understand in the universe. This is the beauty of just *some* of the messages in FMA:B. Accept your place in the universe for what it is, embrace what you already have wholeheartedly, help others to do the same, and lean on those around you when even unlimited knowledge or strength fails you.
I’ve always thought life is what you make of it, if someone says life ain’t fair, then they just haven’t figured how to make it fair. It’s your life and you decide how to live it by following your own code
@@SirVonpickalopaloid FMA:B betrays it's own messages. At the end of the day, the Ishballians died for nothing, along with Hues and everyone else who was a pawn to father's scheme. The Elrics have their way, "saving everyone" and restoring their bodies. If the message was "life isn't fair," the show does a horrible job at showing this. If the message is "life isn't fair, unless you're a main character ," the show does stupendously at conveying this.
Al and Kimblee are right in some ways. Al ends up saving many lives and getting his body back not by sacrificing lives (i.e. using the philosopher's stone) but by sacrificing something else (Ed's alchemy). But he didn't break the law. So Kimblee is right about the equivalent exchange but wrong in thinking that you can only get what you want by trading lives/stone.
Yes, with enough determination you can always find a goal that is at least satisfactory.
Kimblee being nihilistic seems to take the path of least resistance when it comes to what he wants to gain.
Although they're both very right in some areas; Al and Kimblee, Al's optimistic ideals shouldn't be discounted.
But Edward is the one who made that choice, not Al.
@@princessthyemis yes and no. You are right that Ed was the one to sacrifice his Alchemy, though he wasn't the only one to sacrifice something important. Alphonse sacrificed his soul as well.
The difference is that Ed and Al trade a part of themselves and what belongs to them. Kimblee trades with everything except for himself and anything that belongs to someone else.
Kimblee is undoubtedly the perfect villain in anime in my eyes. Even though he was a mass murderer who only went under the pretense of having to do so under orders from the military, you know he still enjoyed the killing. However, one thing he does hates is hypocrites who go back on their beliefs. I feel like even though he obviously didn’t like them, he still had some sort of respect for the Elric’s for sticking true to their beliefs of finding a way to get their bodies back without having to use a philosophers stone and sacrifice those souls to do so. Definitely an overlooked character in my eyes.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore, for every possibility, there is an equal and opposite counter to that possibility. It's entirely possible to reach beyond known choices like "either this or that", like Alphonse is proposing. But he better be prepared as, like Kimblee pointed out, by gunning for a better victory, you're also increasing the likelihood of a worse defeat. What matters is if you're willing to take that gamble.
DenisK21 Yes but Alphonse is asking why does it have to be like that, why all these rules, or this at that cost, or that at this cost. Why does everything have to have all these rules and costs. To which no one really has an answer for other than “that’s just the way it is” and for that Alphonse is asking the unanswerable “why?”
Daedalus I don't think that "why" is unanswerable, "That's the way it is" might sound too simple but it's the correct answer. Why do we die? You might start giving all sort of scientific reasons that would explain the process in great detail, but still, we die because "that's the way it is". Could we change these laws, for example trying not to die? of course, but as Kimblee pointed out, trying to get a solution out of the current matrix also means exposing yourself to new rules/parameters, what would really happen if humans stopped dying? What kind of problems would arise? What would we be missing, is death really the end? if not is it a blessing or a curse to stay alive for ever? What about the earth?[...]
I'm not saying that it's bad to question or even break the rules, I'm saying that you have to be prepared to encounter new possibilities but also issues on that road, especially if the rules are billions of years old and are the reason why you exist as a human being .
just like newton's law of physics right?
don't use newtons laws in a stupid anime arguement
GrantKP but that was after massive loss and suffering the world doesnt allow people to get their wishes if they work really hard kimblee points out that als ideals are simply foolish idealism and that hes only prolonging his suffering by not using the stone. And hes adding even further to it that he refuses to harm anyone and save people because its part of his code. Kimblee is probably one of the most rational characters in the show that he points out the cold realism of the world with a touch of cynical nihlism while al is more of an idealist progressor that wants to change how the entire world works by tearing down the old system. Not only is this ridiculously impossible to do but it also is a foolish thing to something that has been governing the world since the beginning of time
Alternate title: Micheal Jackson debates with 14 year old
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK BOA BOA
Hehe
Hehehe
Eh, I don't see it. However, I do recalled Michael Jackson fighting a teenager and his sister just for killing their family as a way to build his demon army.
@@johnathanholmes1297 Kimblee is wearing a white suit with a hat while having pale skin and white hair just like Micheal Jackson
Sure, he likes violence and screams of agony are music to his ears, but still, Kimblee is realistic, hates and calls people out who are hypocritical, and stays true to his ideals. That's why, in my opinion, Kimblee is second best character in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Best being Van Hohenheim, but I have personal reasons why he is best.
They are good, but Doctor Knox and Scar are better.
Scar originally wanted to kill alchemists because he saw their alchemy as blasphemous. He even abandoned his very beliefs just to fight fire with fire. As he was going kamikaze on state alchemists, he was no hypocrite. He planned to die.
Bradley is one of the best too
im just going to say that one of the best characters is Mr. Yoki.
There are a lot of great characters in the show.
The fact that what happened right before this scene is some of the best action and drama in all of anime, and this scene just acts to build up even more. Felt like they were in the eye of the storm for a minute, but it’s important because the brothers need to tackle the fact that they are going against everything they learned. And hearing Al defend their path is as important as Ed. It’s Al’s body they won’t bring back because of their convictions.
Also love that Ed does figure a way in the end that requires no souls, but isn’t cheap either. He had to sacrifice something valuable to him, but not destroy souls.
Is it odd that I both love and despise Kimblee?
Nah I think that makes a good antagonist. I have the same with Handsome Jack.
Yes, because you shouldn't be Despising him, you should only be loving him!
Pat Rex 11 no it’s not odd.
Pat Rex 11 nah
Well it's a complex character.
Take a second look at Kimblee’s face and his pause after Al explains the injustice of choice.
0:47 and 1:08
I feel like here is where Kimblee realizes he’s not only dealing with an idealist, but a literal child. It makes sense that Al poses this question and perspective since he’s still technically a child.
This scene is really touching because rather than scold Al for being naive or optimistic , he tries to reason with him as a fellow alchemist and colleague.
Absolutely dynamic scene.
It’s also because the Elrics are not hypocrites, something that Kimblee hates the most
Something I love about this is not only do we the viewers forget how old Al is, I think the characters are also written to forget how old he is. The facial expressions Kimbly has almost look like realization, remembering that this suit of armor is still a child. I also love how Kimbly never cuts Al off or use his age as a way to devalue what he says. He listens to his thoroughly and provides a proper rebuttal
He's like a tutor helping an underclassmen: he listens to the philosophy Al poses, considers the value of it and then higlights both the benefits and downfalls of it. "Hey this a pretty neat theory, but it has some serious drawbacks if it fails. Don't ignore them, they may come back to bite you."
Alphonse's perspective in this debate is somewhat a metaphor for a philosopher's stone, funny enough.
ChampOrJazzy holy shit you're right!!
Not really, because even then its still equivalent exchange. The energy to create would still be drawn from the souls and energy of the stone itself, and it being so makes finite resource and a failure in proving al's point.
I agree wholeheartedly
In the end Al and Ed recovered their bodies and saved everyone, but didnt break the Law of Equivalent Exchange. In this debate Al was wrong, while there is no problem in looking for alternatives to solve their problems, the solution to said problems will only be found within the fundamental laws of the universe.
Not even a Philosopher's Stone can break the Law of Equivalent Exchange.
All the world is bound by universal laws. There is no going around them. However while the world is bound by universal laws, the human mind is blessed with Free Will and an intelligence to seek alternative routes toward the end.The end result happens via the rules of the universal law, but the consequences of the action can be less or greater depending on how that path is taken. It is perhaps the only power humans have in a world that is beyond our control.
Explisivedevice666 And yet Al claims he wants to find a way around Equivalent Exchange, which not only is impossible, he should know better by this point.
Anunciante Anunciante In the world of FMA alchemy has more in common with chemistry and physics, than with walking. Your example implies that there are always similar ways to arrive at the same destination, when this is not the case.
In the world of FMA the only way around Equivalent Exchange is by using a philosopher's stone. You cannot use logic to model Equivalent Exchange, its one of the founding principles of the FMA universe. It would be like saying "i can deveive and model gravity by using Logic and human inteligence".
But Al never outright says he wants to break the Law of Equivalent Exchange, he says he wants to save everyone and get their bodies back and looking for new ways is how humans advances. He questions why its save everyone or get his bodies back (how was this ever an Equivalent Exchange). In the end they save everyone and find a new way (instead of using a Philosphers stone) to restore their bodies. So in the end he did exactly what he said here
Kimbelee is the one who said Al wanted to break that law followed by then showing the law doesn't even apply to this situation since he could just kill him and Al would lose both.
Think of it like this.
We are assuming each is equal even though, what the fuck, they so aren't but the two people having the discussion agree they are.
A = Al getting his body back,
B = Saving everyone.
SO, the price of A is not receiving B. The price of B is not receiving A. To get one, you don't get the other. That's straight forward, that's equivalent, that's the law as it's known. You gotta pay something equal to get something. That's what Kimblee argues.
The scenario of getting both A and B... The price of A is not receiving B. The price of B is not receiving A. So the price of A and B is not receiving B and A. Al is saying that this is bull and that there has to be a way of getting A and B but we just haven't figured it out yet. Kimblee says "hey, if you find a way, then you've broken what is obviously logical as well as the law as it's known but you gotta accept that if you try this the result is probably you receiving neither because you didn't pay the price for either.."
Al pulls it off so now he has to explain how he got A without paying B... because that's what he did. Al literally paid nothing to get both things. He performed the equivalent of turning nothing into something. So, you know, whatever, Al realized he isn't constrained by having to pay the prices for things at the end of FMAB and he goes on with the two Animal-Dudes to figure out how he broke the scale of the goddamn universe to pay out like it did.
... that's what I gleamed from this exchange. Probably the wrong thing to pick up on but hey, here we are.
Kimblee taking the name Philosopher’s Stone quite literally I see
I feel like a freak for saying this, but Kimblee is just really, really cool.
Hexalys Walker Kimblee is just a badass
You're not a freak at all.. he may be a psychopath but he has some really good points.
Well he is cool but that does not mean he is good. After all if there would not be any interesting things in evil there would not be bad people either.
It's the white suit....
You're not a freak at all everyone is entitled to their own opinion
I like seeing heroes and villains debate philosophy together. It sheds light on their beliefs, values and helps develop them both. Here Kimblee is cold but speaking harsh truth while Al is questioning the why and sticking to his morals.
Oh no, Kimblee has the Philosopher’s Breath Mint!
The Soul Gobstopper!
Uuuuuugh, now I can't help but imagine all the souls in the stone looking at the inside of Kimblee's mouth!
@@ceecee6521 great. Why'd I have to see your comment
From now on, when I’m losing an argument with a person on the internet, I’ll get philosophical, thanks to Kimblee.
Isn't this what everyone does?
Sophists were the first debaters/rhetoricians and Aristotle was the first to theorise logic and consistency/argumentation. So you in some way naturally have to be philosophical while debating
(◕ᴗ◕✿) is that really his name in the anime or did envy have a codename for him when giving him something like a job
@@truelove9476thats his name
I can barely talk as it is, and then there is Kimblee who can debate with a stone in his mouth 😑
Micki March technically its in his stomach
He can just push it out of his stomach to his mouth
Kinda disturbing
But kimblee is a badass so who cares
Good god i really like Kimblee. He's the type of bad guy that despite how awful he is i can't help but hang on his every word. Despite being a psychotic serial murderer he is an eloquent, intelligent, and philosophical man. That and the fact that his voice is so fucking silky makes him so easy to listen too
He has a voice?
Kimblee is a principled villain, which makes him more charismatic than an unprincipled villain without taking away any of his danger.
Kimblee was right they did ended up giving alchemy for their bodies so the law of equivalent t exchange did apply in the end.
Al kept his powers though. He's probably the best alchemist in the world by the end of the series.
No only ed gave up he's power's
Daryll Ndemmayah He isn’t though. The question is will Ed and Al take the opportunity to restore themselves at the expense of all of Amestris, or will they prevent the Promised Day and miss what might be their only chance.
Al posits that they can do both, Kimblee points out that trying to get both might result in neither happening. The only reason Equivalent Exchange is brought up is because Alchemists tend to use Alchemy as the basis for their world view, resulting in them applying it’s one law to everything.
As a comment above said, Al kept his Alchemy, and Ed still has an automail leg at the end of the series. Al actually leaves Amestris to study alchemy in Xing at the end of the story, and Ed stays behind. Really raises a lot of questions and sparks debate. God, I love this anime.
@@ethanwinters1469 al gave up his body for ed
This is one of the best scenes in the whole series. Between the writing and the music, I can't decide which does more for the scene, and when the music stops for kimblee to say "you don't get your bodies back, and you don't save everyone" is just so chilling
It's ridiculous but genuinely one of my favorite moments where two characters have a genuine debate that clearly shows that neither is necessarily right or wrong. By the end of the show though Kimblee was right and something needed to eventually be traded for them both to get what they wanted.
He was also wrong, however, in that they didn't need to sacrifice their friends or their bodies.
@Lord Typh he was wrong on the prediction. But sacrifices were made: Hoenheim, Ed's alchemy...something else? It's been a minute now lol.
He actually sat down in the middle of the fight
I love Pride is just sitting in his little time out cone during this debate
FMA Brotherhood was the best anime ever made, hands down
Fma 03 comes in second. :P
FMA is a close second to HxH to me. When each are at their best, HxH is just a bit more compelling.
Stu Long I never liked HxH... Imho FMA:B is WAYYYYYY better than HxH..
But to each their own..
Did u watch the 2011 version? If so I recommend going 20-30 episodes in before giving it up, I'm not sure why but a few don't like the start as much.
Brotherhood and HxH are both in the top 3, but the top 3 to 5 are so good it's almost impossible to list a true #1
I cant unhear trunks’ voice in kimblee. The evil trunks thing isn’t sitting with me
now that you mention it....i still like Kimblee. Besides an evil Trunks would be a better fit than an evil Goku.
@@Zarryon12 bro you just gave me an awesome idea if i ever buy the franchise in the future
@@lavellelee5734 you're welcome.
Umm… Shigaraki 🤷♂️
Kimblee is such a good character. So many times I see shows just label someone as "psychopath," and leave it at that, but when they actually give that character depth, clear motivations and beliefs, and an interesting worldview, that's when you have some interesting character sauce.
If anything, yeah Kimblee's a murderer, but "psychopath" sounds.....unfitting for him. He's smart, often well-mannered and can read people like a book sometimes. Rather, he's more of a sociopath, and even that's not enough to properly describe what Kimblee is.
I do love these debates! When two individuals of opposing ideals clash, not with force but words!
You get such a great look into them and their beliefs, and how much they actualy hold to their values-
One of the main reasons why Brotherhood is superior to the original anime adaption: Kimblee's character is developed much further.
this man suckin on a philosopher stone like it's a damn cough drop and yet has an articulate conversation with alphonse is just wild to me.
I love this show so much. Not only has dope fight scenes, a cool magic system, and well-rounded and interesting characters, but also actual thought-provoking moral discussions between characters.
In short, the philosophy of one last gamble. Win or loose. Offer 1 thing to get both things if you win.
Something very interesting to look back at, even though Ed and Al tried to think outside the box of possibilities, its Ed that realizes the answer was well within the rules and it was the one thing many alchemist would never have even considered due to the very nature of it.
The only way to not lose the game is to quit playing. Edward's entire journey he kept playing a game he could never win in. But he could stop losing.
I never knew a psychotic philosopher could be such an interesting character
Not all psychos are deranged drivelling or unthinking murderers. They simply have a different view of the world when not looking through the same lens of emotions most others do. Through Kimblee we got to see many of the flaws of the ways of thinking of almost every other character.
"It's not fair". You know, that is another way of describing equivalent exchange.
compare this to an in battle conversation in bleach LOL
KingSyrian what you mean by that?
luis angel encarnacion I'm saying this is done better than bleachs style
luis angel encarnacion they talk too much
KingSyrian and explain all of their powers
Lmao as much as I love bleach it's true😂
Ahh man, now I gotta binge the whole series again… like I needed motivation
Alphonse vs Kimblee and Pride = one of the best choreographed fights in anime!
I love how Kimblee respect people that stick to their belief..Just like he respect al and Edward...And he also respect Winry parent
It’s why he betrayed Pride since Pride betrayed his convictions. The elrics never did and despite being his enemies, Kimblee respected them for that
The perfect definition of a lawful evil. Somehow that's become my favorite type of character.
I love how calculated Kimblee is. No matter what, he instinctively thinks of his next move. At 1:21, he starts walking to an elevated rock so he can sit down to regurgitate the stone out of him. I noticed he can only does this when he is sitting down.
His outfit is fresh AF
Oh man, I read the title wrong... I thought it said "Kimblee dates with Alphonse" f my life.
We wish
Lady Stoneheart We could though, we have the technology...
But I dont want to see it...
(types this KNOWING that i just opened Pandora's Box, but I've already typed this much, aahhhh fuck it,
it's 10p.m. on a Thursday)
@@LadyStoneheart312 That'd be pedophilia, Alphonse is literally 14 in this time period oof.
It's interesting that a villain serial murderer has the most pragmatic way of thinking. I like that Kimblee isn't some mindless psychopath but cold, calculating, and logical
Keep in mind Kimblee had a stone in his mouth and talked better than most people.
Apparently he keeps in his stomach and regurgitates it.
@@taylorboney1089 oh that's just nasty
every time i rewatch FMAB i find a scene i had completely missed or forgotten about the previous time. It’s a joy to rewatch:)
Kimblee honestly does bring up a lot of good points in this topic, not only are ed and al setting inpossible standards for a somewhat realistic goal, they also make it inpossible by believing they can get their bodies without using any kind of violence. Gotta love kimblee for being the amoral realist
Been watching old clips of this show and it makes me want to rewatch it all over again. I truly enjoyed every single episode and I was sad when I finally finished it. I might as well rewatch again after years.
gah, kimblee is one of my all-time favorite villains. like he's absolutely horrible but he never tries to lie to himself about it or justify his crimes. he fully accepts who and what he is. he's not inherently opposed to other people's opinions potentially being correct over his own, and he has no problem hearing others out. he never deviates from his own principles - he'll do absolutely horrific things, but he won't pretend that there's some greater meaning that justifies his actions, and he doesn't have any interest in hypocrisy. he's the worst but i can't help but admire him. plus, some of his lines just stick in my head, even years after reading the manga.
"don't avert your eyes from death. look forward. look at the people you're killing in the face. and don't forget them. don't forget. don't forget. they won't forget you either."
I swear, he reminds me of one of the Noah in D. Gray-Man. Tyki, I think.
Kimblee is fascinating in that he’s one of the few, if only characters who don’t really have stakes in the plot. Everyone else has a motive or goal but Kimblee is just there because he enjoys the conflict and chaos those opposing goals and motivations bring. Even though we were introduced to him in prison he’s arguably the character that enjoys the most freedom throughout the series because nothing is tying him down, he’s exactly where he wants to be.
My man is having a debate while he has a marble in his mouth, now that's a superpower.
I always am torn between liking FMA vs FMA:B because in Brotherhood, characters like Kimblee were given justice in terms of writing, but in the 2003 I LOVE the concept of the humunculi way more than Brotherhood. It's a tough call man, both are great.
spooben why not love both for different reasons?
@Reddynz But what 2003 anime is doing perfect is being a good antimilitaristic story. Because of "tRaGiC aNd DaRk", yes. And I respect that part of original 2003.
What I love about this scene is that it actually sets up the ending if you think about it. Kimbley says "you dont save everyone, and you don't get your bodies back" then also by his logic and the law of equivalent exchange, since that is an option then the reverse should be as well, they do get their bodies back, and they do save everyone.
but they don't get their mother back, which is what they wanted from the beginning so I'd say kimblee was right. Al is wondering why he can't save everyone with their bodies but when was saving everyone asked from anyone? like Kimblee said, they could just pick a philosopher stone and return to their original bodies but then they would be useless anyway, so what is Al complaining about?
He's the only "villain" that'll litterly sit down and talk to you and point out flaws in your ideals
If we consider early episodes' Scar as a Villian, he did the same:
- You killed her!
- Oh, you saw this poor child too? What a terrible result of your lovely alchemy. And what you would supposed to do? To stay her in that condition?
It is at this 1:47 moment Al knew... he f****d up.
This version of Kimblee was better than the original
I think what Kimblee said at the end actually ties this whole thing together in a really interesting way.
The point is that the choice Ed and Al are making still fall within the laws of equivalent exchange however by not choosing one of the two initial options and attempting to achieve both they raise the stakes on the opposite end of the scale by an equivalent amount.
Basically the equivalent exchange goes from choosing between saving everyone or getting their bodies to; saving everyone and getting their bodies or failing at both.
Very well put !
Pity that in the anime there was no moment from the ishvaal flashback where his unit found winry parents. And he scoldes one of his soldier when he asked what the hell they did helping an enemy. To which Kimbly states that as soldiers duty is killing doctors duty is curing people.And that they just do their duty. And he said that hed like to know them when they were alive.
Imo Kimbly is one of the most interesting characters in whole story. Being very contraversal with multiple layers.
Kimble is one of the best written characters in anime history
Can't have your cake and eat it too...
Kimblee reminds me a lot of Dante from the 03 series. A character that deconstructs an element of the Elric Brothers worldview.
In the 03 series, Dante basically turns Ed's belief of equivalent exchange on its head. Arguing that there are plenty of things that don't follow equivalent exchange. Sometimes you can work super hard and still come up short. Sometimes the poor and helpless never get to rise out of hardship while the privileged few get their entire lives sorted out for them without breaking a sweat. Ifa baby cries for help and dies, what is the exchange there? It did all it could to live and yet it dies anyway. Why is Edward allowed to pass the state examination where others didn't. Did they deserve to fail? Ed has to recognize that equivalent exchange isn't some blind philosophy you can just adhere to without question. Instead, it's more of a belief that things will work themselves out rather than a defined rule that they will always work out.
Similarly, Kimblee is basically challenging Alphhonse's core assumption that their journey is going to be meaningful. Alphonse tries to argue that it isn't fair that he has to choose between getting his body back and helping people, trying to argue that he can always give more and take the third option. He wants to say that their journey is destined to succeed based on all he and Edward have done. However, Kimblee points out the logical conclusion that if Alphonse can somehow succeed at both tasks, he can also logically fail at both tasks. Life isn't fair, and sometimes things will occur not because of choice but because of chance. Think about how Alphonse's story ends if water erases his seal by accident, say he accidentally falls into a river and can't get out. A lot of what happens with the Elric brothers comes down to a bit of luck at the end of the day.
I just find it very interesting.
funny thing i was just thinking a few seconds ago about what was said in this comment
It's interesting. He's seemingly such a nihilist and a cynic. But upon hearing Alphonse's ideal of having cake and eating it too, he doesn't laugh or mock the naivety. He posits the inverse; if you pursue an end where all wants are satisfied, it's just as likely none will be.
It's an oddly teaching moment.
Kimblee understood a man’s gotta have a code. Even if it’s different from his. Psychopathic realist
That ending needs to be a To Be Continued meme.
God, I wish we had a little bit more of Kimblee throughout the show.
A realist psychopath who also happens to be very intelligent and eloquent.
Who also has standards.
Interesting. Now that I'm listening to this argument, isn't this just the Prisoners Dilemma reframed for the show?
Thing is your still giving up something to do both which is your time especially since your life span is something you can give up
Why does this speech remind me so much of the Fate Stay Night Abridged debate between Shiro and Kazuke?
"The answer to your problem is in front of you. You kill no one, you save no one"
Always loved how Kimblee was written. A pragmatic psychopath by clinical definition, not goofy Joker-esque nonsense.
Try giving Kimblee's eloquent speech with a grape in your mouth and you'll learn how talented he truly was.
I just found out the America/Canadas voice actor and Solfs are the same just mind blown
free will is an illusion
Kimberlee, the greatest plot device in FMA
Narrative device* That one sounds so wrong and insulting
The eternal struggle of right vs fair. It's almost depressing that there has to be a difference
“Equivalent Exchange” unless you steal
I like the ending of the debate a lot. Kimblee acknowledges that just as there's a non-zero chance that the brothers could get neither, it's possible they could somehow get both. The law of equivalent exchange requires first that something is lost before anything is gained, so as long as the Elrics have yet to achieve one goal, they haven't given up the other.
Kimberley is crazy, but he’s also a badass, he’s a crazy badass
Damn, Brotherhood is so good. Granted I never watched 2003, but still
Kimblee in a civillain life is the kind of guy that would make either a good accountant or a lawyer.
"You don't get your bodies back and you don't save everyone"
Alphonse: Wait, so where is the equivalent there?
They sure made Alphonze's last solo fight a good one
"Well maybe the law of exuivalent exchange is bullshit"
dante = equivalent exchange doesnt exist
kimblee = anything is possible
the deterministic and free will argument. never anyone is wrong and right at the same time.
This must be one of my favorite debate in the show, and I do side with Al even as a realist. We are usually bounded by the choices that was given to us when actually there's always more ways to do things than either or.
The realist without enough willpoower to attempt the greater, for they see the losses and the price of it all
And the idealist who has an unbreakable will who will shatter all odds to make it all worth it, and fight even after losing their body, and MAKES it all work, no matter the personal cost, to make it so no one else must pay the greater price