Toms two cents on oils and coolants
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2013
- In this installment there was enough material to make a stand alone video talking about cutting oils, coolant and lubricants for the machine shop. We take a look at some of the materials I use and why. We also do some simple shop comparisons that may help folks make more informed decisions.
- Věda a technologie
Welcome to Tom's School of Machining boys! Today's lesson: cutting fluids!
Hey Tom, I bet I was the only one listening to your video through my ear bud while I was drilling and tapping some holes in some small shafts this morning, using my acid brush, can, and dark cutting oil. LOL!
Good job on the video, it was very informative and a joy to watch. You did a good job of explaining the differences between them and how to use some common sense when selecting them.
Adam
Hey Adam,
Glad you liked the video. I was wondering about the really dark stuff you use. What is the brand and name of that cutting oil? When I bought the little jug at the hardware store that is what I was expecting to get.
Talk to you soon,
Tom
Tom the cutting oil I use is Exxon brand and its called Pennex N 47. I have a 55 gallon drum of it I bought a few years ago, and its still nearly full. This is the stuff we have bought for years through a local oil company, but I think it was the last barrel they had.
I did a quick google search to find some info on it with not much luck, other than finding out it has been discontinued and replaced with a new products called Mobilmet 766.
The Pennex N47 from what I know is the old style cutting oil and it works good for a lot of machining jobs in the shop. It's probably about the same thing as the Ace brand thread cutting oil.
Abom your n47 thats the expensive part to gundrilling 50/50 mix
www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/932959-vfhn7j/
pdf that talks of its replacement page 12 has what is closest to what you have.
Abom79 Hey Adam,
Thanks for the info on the oil. It looks like the "good" stuff. I can imagine for a second what your shop smells like just looking at that cutting oil. Makes me think of turret lathes.
Cheers,
Tom
I'm actually cutting threads in 440 right now. Using CRC TrueTap HD. Seems like a heavier fluid works better in this application.
Tom, Great video. Thanks for taking the time to explain this subject and back it up with the visual tests. Thx biscuit
Love the effort you are putting into these Tom. Keep posting
Hi Bomb,
Thanks for commenting and participating.
All the best,
Tom
Tom thank you so much for the sharing of opinions on regards to lubricants and cutting oils. It is one of the few things NO ONE talks about nor is written anywhere I have found yet.
One of the dirty little secrets of the shop world. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
It produced a LOT of good info with nice experiments. Thank you, Tom.
As usual, a wealth of information. Thanks Tion!
Hi David,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for the video, great comparison of the oils. I am going to have to watch it again because I know I missed stuff.
The demonstrations were great. Thanks for taking the time to put these videos together.
Hi Wyatt,
Thanks for the comment and support.
Best,
Tom
Interesting discussion and testing,
Thanks for sharing Tom
Hi Tom
Thanks very much for this video - clears up a lot of stuff.
Rod - Canada
You are producing videos that speak a lifetime of experience in each one. They all look very good to me
Hi Metal,
I hope some folks out there will make good use of it. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Ironically, I am watching your videos tonight and the TV is on in background - Berkeley Lab was an answer to a Jeopardy question! Loving your videos, Mr. Lipton!
Hi Charlton,
That is funny. What was the question? Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Good information Tom. thanks for your effort!
Hey Huskie,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, when you tipped the card up to start the viscosity test I wanted to shout, "holy crap this is exciting!" No, seriously, another good video, thanks!
Jim
RVJimD Hi Jim,
I think you need to get out more often. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom had to go back and watch this again... As I had issues using the correct choice of product. I have them all, but this data you have provided helped me... THANKS... Brian F.
+GUSMIX22 Hey Brian,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
Well thanks for taking some of the mystery out of cutting lubes... Because... Like they taught me in college... "Friction is a drag".
Thanks again. Chuck
Good job Tom. You know if Adam gives you a positive comment you did good, LOL. Thanks for all of your time and effort for making these videos and taking us along! Take care!
Never thought I could learn so much about oil
Gday Tom,
I've just been watching one of your older videos on coolants & oils that you did back in Dec 13, & found it very informative stuff.
Cheers, Pete...
Hey Peter,
Thanks for the comment. Seems like I did that video just the other day.
All the best,
Tom
Many years ago I used Rigid brand dark cutting oil threading steel pipe for my father. It worked good for that.
I keep meaning to buy some for my lathe
Thanks
good info, thanks for the school, lessons learned,
thanks for the video,
Richard
Hey Richard,
Thanks for the comment and participation. Happy holidays,
Tom
In a pinch, chain saw bar oil can be used to lubricate machine ways.
When milling super-alloys used in oil and gas industry (Inconels, Incoloys, Hastelloy, etc.), we would use through-tool coolant, higher pressure, with our water soluble coolant up around 15% to 20% concentration, making sure we kept our inserts sharp, NOT being afraid of higher sfm (everybody called me crazy, but I cut cycle times by over 60%, and got 10x's the tool life per insert corner), but I had to be absolutely meticulous about entry and exit to cuts, about radial engagement%, and how that affected the angle of entry of the insert into the material on each cut, and maintaining a thick-to-thin chip formation, both are key to insert life. I miss machining that stuff, and miss blowing the minds of guys with 30 years of experience that hated to machine any of that DTM material, but could never get ANYTHING to work.
"Thick to thin;" Do you mean cut larger chips, then progress to smaller? Or, did you mean one size chip between "Thick and thin"?
Thanks Tom for all the information, I've learned so much from watching your videos. It makes me think on ways I would Improve on your process of doing a job. Not my way would be better but its my way. You know the old saying, 100 machinist doing the same job and a hundred different ways of doing it. Mike
Speaking of the smell, I worked in machine shops through college. Two. This was in the early-80s. The smell of the oil permeated every single thing. One could walk into the shop for five minutes and come out smelling like the oil. No exaggeration. Hated it! Now, a few decades later, that same smell seems pleasant and it's full of great memories. Funny how these things change with life experience.
Hi Tom: Great education on cutting oils. I do a lot of work with 4340 bar stock with a tungsten carbide bit and I find Railtons thread cutting oil to be the best stuff to use for surface finish and cutting speeds. A word of caution about this oil is make sure its the new formula because the old stuff is highly carcinogenic and enters your blood stream through your skin faster then any known substance. Keep up the good stuff
Thanks Tom. Very helpful, I was using a Napa brand and was never all that happy with it. I will be moving up to Mobil s-122 thanks again.
Hi Randy,
I didn't know Napa sold stuff like that. I need to look a little closer next time I'm in there.
cheers,
Tom
Thanks for all your videos! I use JoJoe water less hand cleaner on aluminum, if you smell aluma tap it smells just like it.
Tom.
Tom, a bit of a game of hide and seek but I found it. Thanks. Have a Happy New Year.
43:03 - "I don't know what you're doing".
Well, that makes two of us. I don't know what I'm doing either.
Great look at oils and Thanks for taking the time to show machineing to guy's like that are just learning, I have a Sherline lathe and milling machine, My goals are to make small parts for my Radio controlled Gas car. Thanks Again Dave Aarons
in Naples Fl.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the comment. Welcome to the show.
Cheers,
Tom
I use either WD-40 or Tap Magic for nearly everything. I LOVE the standard Tap Magic stuff. I love how it performs, how it cleans up and how it smells. Nothing like walking into the shop in the morning after a long machining run the previous day. I'm not putting it in my cereal yet but if they made a Tap Magic cologne, I'd wear it.
Hi J,
A little dab on the wrist and behind your ear? Personally I like WD-Spice original.
All the best,
Tom
Thanks for the informative lesson Tom. +1 on Yiorgos comment about chainsaw bar oil as a way oil substitute. I used some on my first lathe and it works fine, very high tack, until it gets cold (under 40 deg F) then it was like glue. Made it very hard to move the tailstock, but if your shop is heated or you live in a temperate climate it would work well, and it can be found for cheap at your local megalomart.
VR
Marcus
Thanks for the video, Tom. I'm new to machining, and my first / only machine to date is my 1978 Hardinge chucker lathe. I've only done aluminum so far, and have used WD40. I also use the Rapid Tap for drilling / tapping, but will try it on the lathe when I work steel.
Hi Aaron,
Sounds like your headed in the right direction. Steel will make you appreciate good tools and technique.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, I purchased Ometa HyCut coolant oil and Additive when i got my first Haas about 6 years ago. Still use same batch. So the trick is that you individually check the content two components to mix in. One is the lubricant and the other is bacteria preventing thing. BMW has been running this same batch of coolant for about 15 years. If you skim oil and filter properly you can keep same coolant for years.
I really like Rapid Tap a lot, found it was a big help with drilling using a low power tool like a battery drill and of course great for tapping. Once had a quart of cutting oil that I had to return because I could not stand it when it smoked.
Rich
Nice video Tom, I had to do a bit of stainless steel work so I bought a spray on kitchen cleaner for stainless steel surfaces, may be not the best idea but for a few bucks-what the hell give it a try
There are solid and semi-solid machining compounds also. I've never developed an affection for Anchorlube, but I do like Boelube (a Boeing Company development). It is generally provided in a solid form. It is particularly effective for machining titanium.
Hi Tom, I really appreciated this video. I recently got hold of my first lathe ( a very old one but still it's my first) and have been unable to find way oil anywhere where I live so I feel more confident now experimenting with alternatives. Thanks again, Alex.
Hi Alex,
Where is where you live? McMaster carr sells way lube. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom,
I'm in Australia so no McMaster carr unfortunately. Thanks for the reply, I love watching all you videos.
Cheers,
Alex
Alex Does DIY Hey Alex,
Pop over to Bruce Whitmans or ueee84's channel. Ask over there. I'm sure they both have a supplier they like down in Oz.
Cheers,
Tom
Will do, thanks for the tip.
Cheers
Alex
I have a metal lathe (garage shop not a pro) and I found that good alternative for way oil is motorcycle chain oil same sticky and stays there and can find in every MC shop or gas station...
Thanks for the in-depth discussion and testing. At those temperatures, the oils are probably polymerizing and may need a more aggressive solvent than denatured alcohol. You've essentially seasoned a set of tiny little frying pans. In my experience, a well seasoned cast iron skillet can take a serious beating with high temps and acidic liquids without batting an eye. My solvent of choice is also denatured alcohol, but in this case I suspect a little lacquer thinner or maybe turpentine would work pretty well on the cutting oil residue.
+FXM Hi FXM,
The bad part was I didn't get any bacon to eat after the test. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Taking the time to really explain the oils and their uses was really appreciated! Some searches quickly showed the Cling is no longer available and the Mobile S 122 is only available in 5 gallon buckets, but the 102 General purpose can be had in gallon jugs. I think the residue results would be a little less dramatic as the material would certainly have chance to cool faster than in your example with the constant heat.
Non the less it is a great starting point for folks like myself who are just starting out after many years away from the trade or first timers, and I like the ums and ahs because it has a more general "water cooler" feel to the video. It's like standing in your shop when the conversation starts up...less staged and stiff like a class room would bee
Hey Robin,
Thanks for the comment. I tried to find the Cling a while ago. No luck. This bottle must have been hanging around for quite a few years. I agree about the dramatic residue. Been quite a while since I got a part that hot machining on it. I was trying to illustrate the residue and smoking issues with the different lubes. Thanks for the feedback. I might try it again at a lower temperature. Maybe just over the boiling point of water.
Cheers,
Tom
motorcycle chain lube works well for the stick to it factor leaves a good finish too
Tom, thanks for the great videos! I have been trying to find the water soluble fluid and 220 way oil you showed in your video but I have not had much luck. Where did you purchase them or do you know of a good equivalent for each?
Excellent as always. Would the mobilcut be good for mist cooling?
I like the Ace. It has an real nice coloring.
Hi Anobis,
Thanks for the comment.
Best,
Tom
Hey tom!
In my warner/swasey turret lathe, im using water soluble flood coolant mixed 10:1. I also put triadine in it to minimize the bacteria growth, along with some odor control tablets. It does start to smell after awhile. I also have a wheel skimmer to clean out any of the tramp oils that get into the sump. I purchased a refractometer to check the mixture and i do that once a week in all of my equipment. Yeah, it takes some self control to keep up with it, but in the long run, it pays off. If you dont keep that mixture correct, it will stink, and it will get very disgusting.
Best,
Mark
By the way, throw me a pin next time. White marsh md, ten miles northeast of baltimore
Other nice video. Very informative. I was just using motor oil. I didn't know the difference.
Hi Carbo,
All kinds of things work. I'm sure motor oil works pretty well.
All the best,
Tom
Hey Tom thanks for the vids, I've spent the better part of a month watching them and teaching myself on my 7x10. Also Cling is available on Amazon and its not too pricy and they claim its water soluble too!
Hi Robbie,
The water soluble stuff is a different animal. Thanks for the comment and views.
All the best,
Tom
Interesting when you demonstrated "stringy" way lube. It put me in mind of chainsaw bar oil. Might be interesting to include it in your next test? (If there is a next test :) )
my father worked in aerospace manufacturing for 30 some uears and he really likes "molly dee". really great stuff for a heavy high pressure tapping and cutting fluid. just thpught I'd throw that in there. it works great on titanium as well.
+darin amann Hi Darin,
The old formula of moly dee is pretty incredible. The new version is chlorine free and is not the same stuff. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hey Tom! Thanks a lot for all your videos, I'm following them and making my way through the backlog.
Thought I'd mention though, WD-40 does not contain kerosene, they even debunk that on their own website. It does, however, contain naphtha. While they're technically similar, they differ in some key aspects, such as flammability and density. Other than that, it's my lubricant of choice if nothing else is within reach. That, and Rocol's RTD (Reaming Tapping Drilling) liquid.
Hi Pumpernick,
Thanks for the clarification. I never even thought to check their website. I had always thought it was kerosene. Now I will go and do a little reading on their site and see what other information I can find.
Kind regards,
Tom
thanks again Tom.
Hi Flip,
How goes the natural solutions to metalworking fluids? Good to hear from you.
Best,
Tom
great video, What is your solution your using. I'm using 20% mineral
oil, 80% water, with a couple drops of dawn dishwashing liquid. Cutting
aluminum.
The injection molding place next door to uses it in the molds of the presses I think. Ive been workin my way thru all your videos.
Hi Tom. Fascinating vocal treatise and experiment on your choices for cutting fluids/oils thank you. I'm curious if you find your hot plate useful for "tempering" hardenable steels?
If it had better temperature feedback it would be great. Too hard to hit a number with it. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
What about using alcohol for aluminum/brass/copper? I read about this and tired it for the first time and love it. Not only is it a great coolant but it evaporates from the shop floor/tables/machines quickly and is naturally antibacterial and bug. Some fear the flammability but it is "cool" burning (the vapor burns really not the liquide) and I do not see it any worse than karasoine (WD40).
I found that like automobile oil, the way oil gets a little thicker and stickier when the shop gets a little colder. I don't always keep the outside garage/shed heated and I was playing around with the late a little and noticed it. Any suggestions on a weight to use during the colder months?
Thanks for the suggestions on the different types of oils/coolants for the different metals and operations.
Hi Tom, excellent video!
A (belated) question about using vegetable oils, aren't they slightly acidic, or is that no problem?
A little off topic what do you use the stepped granite block for in the back left of the video
2 cents might be understating this video Tom lol
Great Tom. I really enjoyed this one. Any experience with the Cool Tool II product? can't figure out what it is.
Hi Mark,
I've seen Cool Tool around before. I have probably used it at one time or another but it is not memorable. No idea what's in it but it must work since its been around for years.
Best,
Tom
Its worth mentioning a "graphite like" cutting fluid. Moly-dee from Castrol. I have found nothing like it when retaping hardened 455 ss it was the only fluid which allowed cutting without risking a broken tap. Its the messiest stuff but works great.
Hi Tool,
The new formula of Moly-Dee is not as good as the old stuff. I still have some of the original snake oil hiding around here. It really is the stuff for the really tough jobs. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
i have some old moly-dee i think it works great on hard metal dont know about the new stuff
Hi Tom. Thanks for all the machining vids, I enjoy watching them! I have a question about a couple specific cutting fluids, in particular Relton A-9 and Relton Option 1.
Do you have any experience using these? If so, in your opinion, is A-9 usable on steel if it's the only thing on hand, or should it be restricted to aluminum only? If you had to choose between A-9 and Option 1, which would you rather use for steel, and which would you rather use for aluminum?
From what I've gathered reading on the web (oh boy, and we know the internet can't possibly be wrong) it seems that Option 1 is sort of a last-ditch choice only to be used if water-soluble cleanup is mandatory?
I have only ever used Option 1, mostly on aluminum (as well as WD-40) but occasionally on steel, and I found the performance only mildly better than spit. Plus, it left black marks all over my milling machine's table underneath the vise (clearly due to the water content in the cutting fluid).
I apologize for the lengthy comment and all the questions, but I'm a novice and only started machining as a hobby a little over a year ago, very slowly acquiring a couple of small machines. Anyways, I look forward to your reply! Thanks for reading. :)
Hi Orcinus,
Unfortunately I don't have any experience or commentary to add about A-9 or option 1. I do use Relton rapid tap and it is one of my favorite all around machining fluids. I use it on almost any material with excellent results. It will stain copper under certain conditions but the staining can be removed with a brite dip or vinegar and salt solution. Second would be WD-40 for aluminum work. So in order of use and preference, Relton rapid tap, WD-40 then some water soluble emulsion for maximum cooling for heavy cutting. I think folks fuss around too much with cutting lubes at the hobby and home shop level. There are just too many variables in cutting conditions to draw definitive conclusions. Just know a wide range of lubes and coolants work over a wide range of materials and cutting conditions. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco It does help, yes. Thank you very much for your reply, I appreciate it!
Thanks for the videos. But I have a question about your spillmaster cups. Where do you get them.
+36Hooters FAQ video.
Thanks for the comment.
cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom for putting this together! Good info.
I use WD40 for aluminum and Black Swan Dark Cutting oil for steel/SS. They are cheap and easy to get.
I tried Koolmist, It worked well, but I ended up with rust. It also seems to crack carbide from thermal shock. I don't think the benefits are worth downsides for my little shop. I tend to get dragged away from a job for a day or two. IMHO Koolmist really needs a thorough cleaning.
I will try it again on some longer running jobs. I may even give the water soluble a try. Water does cool much better!
Hi Willy,
Never tried the black swan oil. Might try to get some. I don't have a dark heavy oil in my inventory right now. Prices look pretty good also. I feel you on the Koolmist. Never liked it for smell and residue cleanup.
Cheers,
Tom
thanks alot
one of my first jobs i had was cleaning out the coolant sludge tanks ime 40 and i still sometimes get that smell in my nose
Hi Sam,
Somethings you can never get out of your system, Thanks for the comment.
Best,
Tom
Hey tom, any suggestion for local (bay area) fluids suppliers?
I never liked the water soluble coolants as they stained the equipment. Right or wrong I use mineral oil as coolant/lube on my lathe and so far so good. A side benefit low evaporation and inexpensive.
hay tom just thought id pass you some feedback, really like your vids your presenting skills really nice, really like to watch you making some real nice pieces thought i had a tool fetish before i saw your hammer collection.
just wondered why you dont have a plasma cutting bed thought you would put that to use no end cheers...your so lucky having a workshop bolted onto your house
Hi Jon,
Thanks for the comment and feedback.
Best,
Tom
Tom,
Anything in "High temperature" service is going to need to be machine sulphur / Chlorine free all materials are succeptable Ti/inconel/monel/cobalt based etc... Chloride and sulfide cracking / any corrosion cracking is a problem. Most importantly in rotating equipment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfide_stress_cracking
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_corrosion_cracking
OH Boy. Every time I see some different kind of lube I get some to try. I now have a list of a bunch more to try. I was wondering what kinds of oil you use. I ordered 3 of those no spill oilers you use. Now I will have to get some more. lol Thanks for the video. It helps a bunch.
Hey Steve,
Now you will forget which oil is in which cup. The color coding only works if you have a couple. Thanks for the comment.
best,
Tom
I already got that covered. I used a sharpie and wrote on the side of the bottle. I also went and bought a pc. of 1/2" copper pipe and caps. Cut 3 pcs of pipe 2.5" long, put caps on them then a large hose clamp to hold them to the cup for the brush. Now I can put the lid on and keep the oil clean. Remember I also do wood working and that dust goes everywhere
Buckrun11 I forgot you were a woodchuck in addition to all your other skills. The wood dust will kill you.....
Best,
Tom
Very good video Tom. An unrelated question - what is the Ox Tool logo at the start of yor videos made from?
- Tom
Hi Tom,
The little badge is a cloisonne enamel pin. An artist friend of mine made me a whole bunch a few years ago. (wmspear.com) They are little badges,pins and zipper pulls. I send them out in the mail for little thank you's for folks that do me a solid.
Regards,
Tom
I was taping some acrylic plastic at work and it was giving off that butt puckering squeaking .....like the sound a tap makes right before it snaps. My boss suggested trying somr pine sol. And it worked amazing. Even left a little lube in the hole which made the bolts go in nice. .375" plastic and a 1/4-20 tap........pine sol
Pine-sol is just pine scented weasel snot. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to talk to one of my sources in the consumer product industry and see what's in it. I think its a Clorox product if I'm not mistaken.
Cheers,
Tom
Timely video for me tom thanks,i was looking thru the catalogs for some new water soluble cutting fluid for my horizontal band saw and was worried about sump life because I just wont use it fast enough, so are you using the mobil prouduct in your saw?
Hey Johnny,
I don't flood in my saw just yet. I use the green pressure sprayer to lube the blade on the horizontal saw. We use Blasocut $$ in our horizontal saw at work mainly because we also use it in the CNC mill. Works fine. You have to top it up with water if it sits for long periods of time.
Best,
Tom
Ok thats great, thanks Tom
Tom. Great evaluation.
I'm experimenting with beeswax for aluminum cutting. Any experience with it?
Forgot to mention I'm thinning with odor free mineral spirits and mineral oil which is a lubricant in itself.
For bacteria in water-based cutting fluid, saw a Haas video that emphasizes cleaning out the chips to remove bacterial habitat.
Any thoughts on a spindle oil for a Dumore 3" tool post grinder? They recommend SAE 0w (ISO VG 5 to 10) Trying to find something locally. Thanks !
Chainsaw bar oil is a good way oil substiute and as it is sulphored it work well as a cutting oil!
Regards, Matthew
Hi Matthew,
For some reason I couldn't reply to your next comment with the links about WD and Rapid Tap. The MSDS you found is not accurate for the rapid tap sold now. The "new" formula does not contain Tricloroethane. I did get a kick out of the "perfume" that is added to the formula. Thanks for the links.
Best,
Tom
Sulphurized cutting oil contributed to the deep brown surface staining present on old machinery. I still use this oil more than any other for cutting steel. Thanks again, Tom.
doesn't the 'honey' tapping gets more fluid due to temperature build up during tapping?
Hi Tom, FYI I spoke to the Australian rep for Cimcool products and there is a full synthetic product called Cimtech 310 that is perfect for titanium. ;-)
Hi What,
Get a sample from them and let us know how it works for you. Cimcool has been around for quite a while.
Cheers,
Tom
Fascinating and timely video. I have been wanting to send you a private message asking you about cooling a cutting lubes. Thanks so much for your remarks, explanations and test, and more over, for recording your efforts.
Hi Vajake,
You can see that I can read minds in addition to all the other things I do. Thanks for the comment. And the answer to your next question is, 27.
Kind regards,
Tom
That is uncanny! How do you do that!?
Late to chime in but I am VERY picky about the way oils I use, as I the Vactra stuff gives me horrible dermatatitis after a single exposure, while the Blasoslide I tried on my lathe is VERY clean and soft on my skin in comparisson. Unfortunately I can only get in VG68 which is good for my lathe but I can't find any VG220 for my new mill
Hi tom.. I use titanium an awful lot and if you could point me in the direction of what is best for tapping and cutting grade 5 titanium I would really appreciate that please always enjoy your channel bud keep up the good work
lbcustomknives Hi IB,
There are special geometry taps for Titanium. If you do a lot you should invest in some specialized tools. They make a huge difference. There are so many cutting fluids these days I would be hard pressed to make a specific recommendation. Brad over at Tactical keychains does a ton of titanium. He may have some more specific oils he can suggest.
Best,
Tom
Thanks Tom.. I use roll Taps and they seem to work quite well.. I'm using a product called ct90 and when you mentioned about the sulphur and that being a no no.. Thought it was worth an ask mate.. I love the stuff but hate it at the same time..
That's titanium not sulphur lol
lbcustomknives Hey IB,
They add sulfur and chlorine to cutting fluids to make them work better. Titanium is sensitive to chlorine. Sulfur effects red metals in some cases. Hope this helps.
Best,
Tom
on cutting oil i use cooking lard it works real good on every thing
Hi Allan,
I tried it for a while but I was always licking my fingers in the shop. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I have a question and some of the old Logan machines with sealed bearings is there anything you're supposed to do as far as lubricating the spindle with sealed bearings? I mean I know that you have to continuously replenished the back gear oil but other than that?
Hi Clown,
You can service sealed bearings in a pinch by injecting fresh lube under the seals. If its running fine leave them alone. Basically non servicable. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco I got a real big problem. And yes it is running fine so I will leave it alone for now. I have to replace a spindle eventually because whoever had it before me and I don't know how I did not notice this but they carved out about a quarter inch of the nose of the spindle probably boring something I imagine. but this spindle is so nice I cannot measure run out and a foot with drill rod. I even bought a new Sterrett last word to make sure that I wasn't having faulty equipment but I cannot get measurable run out. so we're placing this spindle is a hard thing for me to do because I hardly ever turn between centers. and that's the only thing that's going to be affected by that quarter inch of missing meat in the nose of the spindle. I frankly don't want to change it. I have an extra spindle from an 1821 this is beautiful beautiful beautiful shape but this one is so perfect that I hate to risk anything.
More to the point of this video I just picked up some rigid thread cutting oil it's really nice stuff. I haven't done the tendril test but I kind of have a feeling that it would show that characteristic is it really clings to everything but the tiniest smear it just does wonders. it smokes a little but not as bad as most of the stuff it has no order whatsoever then again I have a condition that has rendered my sense of smell almost non-existent so it probably stinks to high heaven and I just don't know it. it's a little pricey I paid $11 for a quart and I think it's $24 for a gallon so the price comes down pretty good. I'm sure a gallon of cutting fluid will last me the rest of my life.
I decided I'm going to make the leap 2 flood Cooling is amusing a lot more carbide lately is going fast and deep with my cuts. the cool thing is I got a bunch of Lowe's pumps that they use before pumping soda in the soda stations in the pump damn near anything and last for God damn years.
Thanks for the useful information by the way
That's been real interesting to listen to and watch. After the issue of smell, which I can fully understand, the point about residue was most revealing and interesting. Do you suffer residue issues often with your work in practise? I have frequently seen smoke coming from parts or the chips when your working on them.
Hi Dan,
The smoke you mention is typically from oil residue. It doesn't take much to make a little swirl of smoke when welding.
Regards,
Tom
Hi Tom, regards from France, got the bug, bought your book, found a 1500lb 1916 lathe to restore...
Anyway, the tendrils of the "way oil" remind me of the behaviour of the cheap chainsaw oil I bought for cheap at the local big retailer. Any reason it would not do for the ways on my old Davis Rochester rust-monster ?
Keep on trucking ! (from France)
Hi Fix,
Any oil is better than no oil. Seems like you should be able to source some way lube material where you are. Not like France is out there in deep space or something. Find a local machine shop and bring them some pastry. If you have a small container with you I bet they would give you a couple pumps of way lube. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Pastry for way oil, sounds like a good angle there. My point was mainly stemming from being a newbie about oils and remembering witnessing the tendril-ness in my chainsaw oil... It's all good fun and if I manage to get this old sleeping DAVIS giant to work again, I might splurge for decent way oil on ebay.fr...
Meanwhile, I'll have one dominating take-away from your video : the oil's smell is the paramount factor, and it's subjective I'm sure (might even have to be a smell that at the residual post-handwashing level, my wife can live with... WD40 okay so far on that front).
THANKS !
You should do a toms two cent series on various topics
+Carter Sargent Hi Carter,
Then you would have a buck fifty. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Do you have something like pressured oil pump for lubricating the collars of the machine? Like the one shown in these videos.
Konci Makina l ince yağ pompası kullanım alanı
Konci Makina Kullanım Talimatı
Hi Mehmet,
I have a small grease gun that has a fine tip that works this way. Are you looking for one?
Best,
Tom
Hell yea Brennan.
Tom
I have some thick almost like mustard Sul-Flo oil. It can be mixed with most anything. Ever use it?
Thoughts on using old motor oil for general cutting oil?
Eric
Hi Eric,
I have never used Sul-Flo. Sounds like it would be good. I have used almost everything at one time or another. Almost anything is better than dry for certain operations. One time I forgot cutting oil and had to tap something in the field. I ended up using spit and it actually worked pretty well. Not recommended unless you are in a dire situation. Motor oil will work but there are other things that work better.
Cheers,
Tom
It works fine but the gunk and carbon in it will dull your tools faster....
WD-40 is water displacer. Its fish oil with an emulsifier. I helped launch it in India and was inducted into its making process etc. They refine it so the smell stays away. Its an ancient technique in India to lubricate the bottoms of boats with smelly sardine fish oil and other fish bone extract. It turns black [oxidized] but add more life years to boats [wooden]. Im indigenous to Bombay and we do it here too in our fishing villages, use fish oil to open any stubborn bolt or nut :)
Hi Ekulda,
Thanks for the comment. I have heard that WD contains fish oil. Some people spray it on fishing lures to help catch fish. I have never tried it for that.
Cheers,
Tom
What about Lard oil?
Thanks for the videos.
John
What will it smell like after it's been in a machine crevice for a year or two?
the carbon tet was back in the 1967 ,I was out of high school ! Use a bread loft pan, put the tapping fixture in it ,bolt it down. Fill the pan to submerge the fixture. Could use a tweezer to put the nut in the fixture. So you will not get it on your hands!
Hi Tom,
Do you or anyone else know if chainsaw bar oil is similar to way oil? It has the consistency and characteristics as way oil.
Thanks.
George
Gday Tom, Thanks for your Vids. I am looking at making some Gr 5 6AL-4V Titanium axles for my superbike. Could you please tell me the best coolant/oil for machining Titanium, obviously as you said nothing with chlorine. So what is in the market that will suit? Thanks Max
Hey Max,
It will depend on where you are. From your salutation I might make the wrong assumption and think you are in the southern hemisphere. If so a completely different array of products will be available. Are you in the US or somewhere else? Grade 5 is not too bad. The tooling makes more of a difference in the cutting that the coolant. The hardest part will be drilling the hole through the center of the axle. A good grade of water soluble not chlorinated coolant will work fine.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply! I, m from Sydney, Australia.
We do have that milky looking water soluble solution. From what I understand it is important that the Titanium doesn't get to hot otherwise it will affect the strength. As you said the big challenge is drilling the centre which could be done from both sides on the lathe. I could send it away to be drilled but I would really like to try myself except I don't have coolant through drill bits. If I did it slowly over an extended period of time could i use normal Hss or HssCo? the size of ID holes are 14mm and 17mm.
Thanks
just an FYI a little bit of zinc oxide powder if you can get it or make it will kill any kind of fungus or mold that you can think of in the bath
Hi Clown,
Good to know. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom that was really informative. As for high vacuum, machining with sulfur based cutting fluids is a no-no.
I thought too that you should avoid using sulfur based when machining aluminum as it stains black. I've seen this when drilling and using sulfur based oil.
I would like to hear what you have to say on how to maintain concentrations on soluble oils in sumps. Refractometer? It's been a while since I've seen those puritan cotton swabs!
Hey Bill,
I use a refractometer to maintain the CNC's at work. Typically you have to top water up due to evaporation. We use Blasocut in out machines at work. I actually like it.
Best,
Tom
oxtoolco
Thanks Tom we use Rustlick WS-5050 in our horizontal bandsaw and Doringer H-32 in our coldsaw. I'm looking for a better way to suggest so we can keep the concentration at set levels. The Rustlick leaves a pretty bad residue on the saw. Evaporation is the main problem on both due to their open sumps.
Could you use a hydrometer like brewers and battery techs use, to measure specific gravity (density)?
Sorry for the 4 years late suggestion :)