Explosions in the Sky: Lithium-ion Battery Fires in Flight
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Buckle up for a revealing journey into the FAA's reports on lithium-ion battery fires during air travel. Explore the different types of devices responsible for incidents, ranging from cell phones to laptops. Gain valuable insights into the occurrences in flight and on the ground through meticulous data analysis.
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FAA Data: www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/...
00:00 Introduction
00:48 Frequency of Fires on Aircraft
01:37 The "other" Category
02:00 Data Breakdown
03:11 Unique Incidents
03:58 Why Cellphones Catch Fire
04:17 Flight Crews are Trained
04:45 Device State of Charge
0:56 1:00 The Samsung Galaxy Note debuted in 2011. The *_Note 7_* was released in 2016. It was only the *_Note 7_* which had a battery issue.
You are correct, I should have been more specific.
@@StacheDTrainingI remember it well, because I bought a *_Note 7,_* and went through 3 of them in a short period of time.
1st was recalled.
2nd suffered a hardware failure (not battery-related).
3rd was subjected to the final recall.
Pretty disappointing, but I still use Notes (now called the Galaxy S Ultra).
I was a happy Note 3 user at the time. A shame they screwed up the battery design.
Was this about the time when Samsung went to crap overall? They used to be good but not so much anymore?
@@petebusch9069 what I remember was that they had 2 batt vendors for a removable batt . #1 had battery sized a bit too small and could turn at an angle and pinch cell corners. Vendor #2, the "fix" had a terminal weld problem leaving flash too tall, crushed into cell side. Ooof, x2.
This is the kind of useful information that is needed to understand the real risks. Great video.
But, until those "RISKS" are 100% confirmed, no worries mate, keep flying, and keep being medicated; it is what is called LIVE-DATA 'they' love (as do I), until it is not. I will not fly until that point, or take a POINT in me ARM dead-stop, UNTIL that (not dying risk is elevated and) is PROVEN. Live your life accordingly; with that info I say, or not. Living is learning, WISDOM is a B1TCH most-times if YOU're still spinning around fantasy-land to experience it.. Otherwise, if YA DID GoOD, enjoy Heaven Sisters and Brothers - like Borat said, IS NICE! lol Strength! GODspeed!
Great video - thanks. A minor point: an airplane with an emergency doesn't have to "turn around." The nearest airport might be in front of them.
Absolutely. Many of the incident reports stated that the aircraft continued to its final destination.
Congrats on reaching 12k subs, Patrick!
That is concerning, I grew up around aircraft, commercial and private since the mid '60's. If the crew drops the ball what could one do, never really thought about it, really ironic banning hand lotion and they have known of these numbers... Maybe rip the carpet off the floor so it would only produce its own smoke in the cabin.
Li-ion batteries can produce huge quantities of explosive gas. This is more common in the malfunction of a low/half charged Li-ion battery. There is a guy on CZcams that shows these vapor explosions from batteries. He mainly talks about the problem occurring in EV cars and scooters. But any Li battery will do the same in an enclosed space that reaches an explosive oxygen fuel ratio while exposed to an ignition source.
Stache shows in one of his previous videos that those gases take two forms: a lighter than air, very fine mist, and a heavier than air ground-hugging fog.
Am I the only one who misses the "gold old days" of flying where you just had to worry about Karen's crotch goblins crying the whole flight? Now you have to worry that those crotch goblins have chinese crap that will start on fire for pretty much no reason. But don't worry, she will talk to the manager.
"crotch goblins" ... 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you for your work and service 🙏🏻❤️
This is really scary.
The quality of batteries varies so much and it's hard to tell which ones may be worse.
In general, batteries from Japan or Korea are better than those from China.
If you're shopping online, do not get the lowest cost battery.
Not reliable at all, as Rossmann pointed out, even buying the expensive one, they will gladly pocket the extra cash and give you the cheap crap.
So if you want to be sure, you have to open the package and check, but then they will just cheat with the branding on them as well.
Well Patrick mate this is some really scary stuff and I am concerned not only because of the heat that these batteries give off and the damage to the aircrafts structure but also the extremely toxic gases and materials what are now contained inside what is basically an aluminium cylinder with no escape if the aircraft is at say 35,000 feet - what then??
The toxic (flammable) gas is absolutely a concern.
Good to know, especially about the increase in hazard with fully charged devices.
Hey Patrick, thanks for putting this video together. I had no idea there were that many consumer device Lithium battery fires. Having made a career in the aircraft manufacturing industry, I can tell you that smoke in the cockpit is the scariest event a pilot can experience. Fires, especially in the cargo hold, can easily take down a plane. Fresh air in the cabin is quite limited, as fresh air intake reduces the engine efficiency (or fuel mileage), so this is kept to a minimum. The cabin air system mostly filters recycled cabin air. Given the toxic/flammable gases Lithium batteries put out when on fire, this becomes a huge concern. Since these fires erupt very quickly, this becomes a problem during an emergency because, it takes at least 20 minutes to land the plane when at cruising altitude. If a Lithium battery catches on fire, it must be dealt with immediately using effective measures.
And THAT is the problem 'effective measures'...what are they?
We can't put out a Li battery fire in normal circumstances, (thousands of litres of water, protect exposures and let it burn itself out) tnever mind in an enclosed plane at 30,000'.
do you think they will bury the money you saved with you?
@@elinor6525 Effective measures are still being determined, but like most things, there won't be any serious concern until a major crisis occurs.
@@esecallum Sorry, but I don't understand your statement.
@@billharris6886 saving money.
Good informative report, information we should know.
Battery technology still has a long way to go. ESPECIALLY for EVs 🚗🚘
I would not go on a flight if one of the passengers brings his Tesla with him.
And the EV nuts will say we have to force everyone to buy them now because the batteries will only get better..... sometime..... Just like Fusion power plants, we'll have one sometime..... anytime soon.... we promise.....
Not really. It's just the chemistry that needs to change. Sodium Ion are not flammable, and easy to recycle. Also lots of solid state ones are in the works. It's too bad all the auto companies shot their load using dangerous L-Ion polymer batteries. As they age the failures are going to keep getting more and more common as dendrite growth gets worse.
@@grndzro777 be at as it may, but for EVs, a safer (than Li-ion) batteries are needed🔥
Also the amount of fresh water used to process Lithium is ridiculous. 500 THOUSAND liters to make one ton of lithiumm. Basically anywhere there is a lithium mine now has poisoned water@@justapeasant8949
The old dude getting in a fight with the guy half his age and twice his size is hilarious 😆
You could tell who the aggressor was, throwing b slaps while the other guy calmly stood his ground with a raised fist.
Yea it's a serious problem. A tiny air bubble could expand with the lower pressure and easily cause a thermal runaway. I'd imagine the failure rates of devices manufactured at sea level, and then taken to 8000ft(cabin pressure) is a lot higher.
Really Good Video !!! With the damn stuff made in China, it gonna get much worse! As a pilot, this is a great concern. Best Regards, from Alaska!
Seeing them spray so abundantly inside an aircraft cabin, I wonder: do those fire extinguishers still contain PFAS?
It’s a dry powder type. Mono ammonium phosphate. Same stuff used for dropping retardant out of fire bombers
Great vid! Seems to indicate mechanical damage is the biggest problem for these smaller packs. Nice to know that overcharge isn't really a problem any more. Remember late 2000's early 2010's videos of laptops erupting in flame?
Laptops still bust into flames, just not as frequently as other devices.
@@StacheDTraining I have an ongoing reluctance to designing Lithium cells into products. After seeing how one of our transit customers abused a piece of test equipment we made for them, I am very happy we used NiMH! 😃
Even that is not a given but certainly goes without saying , but charging issues , electrical flaws , manufacturing faults , a battery does not necessarily need to be physically damaged , over heating is another issue . Even a loose or faulty connection to a battery can build up heat ,any resistance can cause heat build up , this how bar heaters work , and just think in an Ev , it has thousands of batteries and electric fail points ( what could possibly go wrong ) .
We had a perfectly working mobile phone sitting on the table in the bedroom not charging , not damaged as far as we could see , a couple of years old , it had been on the table for a couple of hours , and out of the blue , suddenly the phone expanded and started to smoke for no apparent reason , fortunately we where awake and dealt with it , but scary stuff as no one has a crystal ball when these batteries go up .
Much to my aggravation 🙄a family member has an EV , but there are conditions to the Ev being on the property , the charger box is as on the extreme corner of the house , and the Ev parks as far away down the driveway as possible from the house as the charging cord will allow it ..
TSA doesn't limit the size. FAA does.
It’s a miracle that anything with these batteries can be legally made, sold and used, let alone transported. Back to Metal Nickel Hydride then?
Consumers will never give up the energy density that comes with the lithium based battery. At least, not for the NiCad equivalent. After all, they know fires won’t happen with their gear because they’re good people, and bad things only happen to bad people.
I'm surprised somebody has a weaponized them yet. They're just about the equivalent of a military grade incendiary device. Makes me wonder how many fires were blamed on batteries when was actually arson.
"Toys" with a CENSORED bar across it.
🔥 “Everything is fine.” 🔥
You mention fire bags, do fire bags work? Should homeowners with e bikes store the e bike in a battery bag, especially when charging?
Q: You mention fire bags, do fire bags work? BETTER Q: even if someone told you fire bags DO work would you really trust them (the bags that is) considering that you've seen a Hydrogen explosion blow a garage door off it's hinges...? and seen a Hydrogen explosion blow the entire roof off a Jeep...?
YES!
Please explain “Socks” I have never heard of that very interested.
Google rechargeable electric socks
E-cigarettes and portable battery packs are usually very poor quality... nobody wants to spend as much on them as they do a phone or laptop.
All that extra oxygen and no escape...
Yep, stopped vacationing out of province years ago due to the increased airport security, looks like I made the right choice for more than 1 reason.
I use only my a cell phone, and it's an old phone and once in a while, I use my 2007 iPaq 210(windows modile device that is extinct). That thing cost a lot at the time, but it was built to last and still works as well as the day it was made, ane its only a single core processor. It's very hard to get lithium tech right. I even got tired of battery powered watches and got me a beautiful modern pocket watch that winds up and you can see the gear work. I have physical barometers that can tell me if a storm is coming an the humidity and temperature. The swift pushing for lithium tech to dominate, is wrong.
All phones use lithium ion battery packs. In fact, older battery packs that are at the end of their life are more prone to a fire than new ones.
@@zilfondel ipaq 210 is a Windows mobile pocket PC. It's still just as strong the day it was made. Those were very special devices, instead of the cheaper made phones and devices we have now. I've been using them since 2003. Also, it is as fast as the quad and 8 core phones.
What about the toxic fumes in the cabin?
Big concern.
So can i get a LTO powerbank?
lots of people wont check valuable items because they refuse to chance it getting stolen.
Or “handled” by the bag chuckers
What happens to the toxic fumes the battery gives off.
At any one time there is an average of 10,000 planes in the air. The risk from a escalating battery threat is less than -- you judge.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ordered the temporary grounding of approximately 171 Boeing 737 MAX 9 airplanes one day after an emergency exit seal, known as a door plug, blew out of one operated by Alaska Airlines mid-air. A single failure after tens of thousands of flight hours. Overreaction?
Why was the picture of "toys" censored? Hmmm
I noticed that.🤷🏻♂️
Twas a dildo.
Sex toys.
@@rogerhargreaves2272 I think it was referring to the secret toys in a lady's purse
I have had a note 2 and note 20 puff the batteries but did not have a fire both puffs had enough energy to shatter the otterbox cases the 20 was a phone I was actively using and the note 2 I had retired and it lasted it 6 years acting as my alarm clock
i thought it was a new song of explosions in the sky
Imagine Harbour Air operating from Vancouver BC converting their SEAPLANES to electric. If the plane's battery has thermal runaway in flight, there is no way to escape alive. The battery should be mounted so that it can be jettisoned and the plane could just glide to an emergency landing. Built-in battery would mean certain death to all aboard.
They do have testing of hydrogen powered jet engines. The issue of flying a plane on lithium ion batteries is that those get heavy when you want the amount of energy to get a car moving for hundreds of miles. When you actually want to get a plane airborne, you want to limit the amount of weight for the plane. That’s not as much of an issue for vehicles on the road.
They do have testing of hydrogen powered jet engines. The issue of flying a plane on lithium ion batteries is that those get heavy when you want the amount of energy to get a car moving for hundreds of miles. When you actually want to get a plane airborne, you want to limit the amount of weight for the plane. That’s not as much of an issue for vehicles on the road.
Sorry as I do no know , if ?
Others have talked about they now use?? a brine mix , salt and water to short out and cool the lithium fires . As the battery burning produces it''s own oxygen. So water is not of much use.
More trying to put the word out so that others know
Lithium-ion batteries are supposed to contain 2 IC protection. Fake Integrated circuit chips are a huge problem offering no protection. 2nd problem is space the circuit board and chips take up a very small space, by not installing you save money and can use a cheaper Lithium chemistry for the same capacity.
Call me a dinosaur, but I still only use Ni-MH (nickel-metal hydride) rechargeables for my portable gear, including my camera equipment and RC model aircraft. I've used 'Eneloop' batteries since 2012 (they're made by Panasonic), all of which are still going strong after hundreds of cycles. I bought a proper 'smart' charger for them, and they're really good - robust, consistent, and undemanding.
My only lithium battery experience has been entirely negative, with my 10"-screen tablet (made by Bush). This began to fail after just 10 months of use. What a load of rubbish lithium batteries are. A replacement would have cost almost as much as a new tablet, so... I took the duff battery out and converted the tablet to run on a small 240V mains adaptor (I'm in the UK).
I love running things off the mains. It's what we used to do with analogue radios and cassette players before integral lithium packs arrived; you could either use replaceable batteries or plug an adapter into the wall. Very civilised. Now you can only run the charger/adapter THROUGH the onboard lithium battery (for tiresome 'smart tech' reasons🙄), and when the battery fails, the device is useless.
I only use my tablet at home, so I don't need the mobility afforded by a battery. It's very liberating.
Lithium battery tech really is garbage where value for money is concerned.
I thought they were banning the charging devices
Are those coffee beans roasted in house fires?
"Chief, the building is clear of occupants and the beans will be a medium roast... because it was a Mexican restaurant we'll call it a _Latin Blend"._
I don't use airplane mode when in a plane, I just turn my phone off and charge it at my destination.
They explode during luggage handling because those luggage dudes smash bags horribly.
A lot of stuff, very cheaply made by Chinese manufacturers have lithium batteries now, even clothing or accessories.
See Chinese e-bike mass fires…
Airplane needs a airlock to throw things out from the plane!
It depends heavily on what kind of battery that is, most laptop, phone batteries are isolated with fire-retardant material. So even if a cell fails it can not spread to other cells or device itself so there is only a smoking device. However especially cheap chinese batteries don't have such an isolation rather cheap flammable plastic inside batteries which causes other cells to fail and fire spreading. Lithium-ion battery failure is actually a thermal runaway not a fire and absolutely nothing can stop it. But as long as it doesn't effect other cells and cause a chain reaction it is completely fine, at worst there would be only some gasses/smoke generated by thermal reaction. This is also the reason why they sometimes explode, gasses are stuck inside battery until their pressure is high enough to cause an explosion. We know how to make them safe but ofc their capacity decreases and they become more expensive so there are still tons of cheap dangerous batteries circulating around..
And all of the carcinogenic fumes were confined to the passenger compartment. The air would be ultimately recycled, filtered and cleared but.......
The smoke thats released is highly toxic and flammable as well. Ion batteries should be replaced with a more stable batteries. 🤔
What happens when 25-50% of vehicles in garages below businesses and apartments are EVs. Fires will greatly escalate, the water suppression system does little to prevent the spread, increasing the likelihood of additional EV batteries igniting.
Or when there are enough EV passenger and school busses. Just think of the children. (That's what the other side always says to support EVs.)
Norway has more EVs per capita than anywhere and their stats show that conventional vehicles have a lot more fires than EVs. If gas vehicles were a new thing I doubt above would be comfortable with the idea of thousands of gallons of highly flammable liquid stored in all the vehicles in garages under people’s homes.
Sooooooo no EV airplane in the future then?
Would you guys get in one?
An EV aircraft will be classed as a convertible. When the batteries die, it will convert to a glider.
These batteries are the main reason we should demand power windows at each window seat and for those smokers that just can't follow the rules. 😉
I don't know how many times I have had to warn parents with kids being babysat by an iPad that they need to make sure they keep an eye on their sugar hyper child and the seat reclining and folding table. If they give me grief, I wait awhile then head to the washroom and let the F/As know of the potential danger. Most F/As don't seem to care at which point I just casually ask them if they have enough bottled water, a bucket and long oven mitts just in case junior decides to BBQ their seat with their iPad. That usually gets a reaction. 😊
Planes no longer have air scrubbers so a smoking battery fire is going to be toxic to all aboard the plane.
Did planes ever have air scrubbers? What would be the point of one when you can just cycle outside pressurized air through?
When people were allowed to smoke on planes they had air scrubbers.@@Sashazur
Oh they still have an air scrubbers if they didn't all the people farting and body odor will make the plane smell like a flying sewer
They do with fleas jumping around.@@davidhenderson3400
Lithium batteries need to be banned aboard planes. Doesnt matter if its in phones, laptops, hearing aids or anything else. Ban them outright onboard planes regardless of charge level.
And there I have reason number 101 that I will not get on a plane.
More space for me, thanks!
Still way more dangerous to drive a car. Are you giving those up too?
lol @MGUY @AutoExpertJC @Geoff Buys Cars EV FUEGO's in FLIGHT! Strength! GODspeed!
Lithium is a highly reactive material, so how is this at all surprising to the so called experts?
Lucky there's no lithium metal in a lithium-ion battery.
I question the battery quality of manufacturing. I've never had any battery issues every. But i see EVs and other types of transportation spontaneously burst into flames. Those things are not something that I'd own.
The FAA says there are 45,000 flights a day in the US. That equates to 1 battery fire every 260,714 flights. I wouldn't be too worried.
That’s not how aviation safety works and we wouldn’t be so successful in aviation worldwide if the aviation industry had that kind of attitude. to be fair Boeing has gone in the gutter and they think like that too. they’re just asking themselves, “Is it cheaper to pay for the damages or to prevent the damages?”
What happened to Samsung? When did they turn to complete crap? They used to make pretty good stuff.
The mentioned "Note" was the infamous Samsung Note 7. Samsung got a batch of bad batteries from a supplier and some would fail randomly. They recalled all of them, though most didn't have the battery issue, and gave next gen replacements. Looking at the numbers, it's somewhat surprising that the FAA allows much of anything on aircraft anymore. They are counting on containment and suppression to avert a disaster.
@@mattc.310 All Samsung phones suck, the last one I had was horrible, why is that?
@@petebusch9069 Don't know. Haven't had any issues with any of mine.
Was that a joke or do people really bring battery powered socks on flights?
No joke rechargeable battery powered heated socks are used for skiing hunting camping
Could it be x ray scanning causing the problem.
No, it’s just low quality or damaged batteries/electronics.
Translation: 'surprising'='stupid'
God I miss my Note 7. Best phone ever made. It was totally worth the risk.
I doubt anyone else on the same plane would have agreed with you!
ALL LYTHAM BATTERIES NEED TO BE BANED AND SENT BACK TO THE MAKERS.
Only an idiot would put a battery in their checked luggage. I do not even keep an alkaline battery in my checked luggage. They are all in my carry-on luggage.
👨🏻🚒
🪫
TOYS hahaha lol
😉
I would not trust some karen stewardess to manage a phone fire.
Then I hope you never get on a plane. 90% of the training that flight attendants (not “stewardesses”) get is for safety, not customer service.
Lithium-ion battery fires can happen to anybody at any time. Audience wishes hapless victims all the best. Cheers!
I can tell you now it's horrible quality chinese batteries with really badly made BMS's. so many chinese cells coming out in the market
Leon Musk will explain all of this away at his next cheer leading session.
What does any of this have to do with Elon?
@@StacheDTraining His cars have done a fair amount of damage with their lithium ion power packs. This may be out of place, but, that's the internet for you.
So is this just an anti battery channel?
What nothing about the released crash tests involving EV vehicles and NO post or T rails and the amount of destruction the weight of these vehicles have, even before the batter compartment is compromised.?
Content creation doesn't happen overnight.